Time  Nick    Message
23:02 tnb     :)
23:02 tnb     ok, thanks
23:01 chris   so when he gets here ill let him know you are after him
23:01 tnb     ok, thanks :)
23:00 chris   ahh no, russ tells me he's on the bus to my house
23:00 chris   he's probably in starbucks :)
22:59 chris   no worries
22:59 tnb     thanks, sorry for the bother
22:59 chris   hmmm ill ask russ
22:58 tnb     he's not answering his phone
22:58 tnb     I need to get ahold of josh ASAP... you seen him?
22:58 tnb     hi :)
22:58 tnb     oh good :)
22:58 chris   yo
22:58 tnb     chris: ?
20:50 chris   yep
20:45 tnb     chris: you still around?
19:51 waylon  eh.. night then, slef.
19:51 slef    bbl
19:51 slef    asleep at the prompt, sorry
19:46 waylon  or is that "*.p?"..
19:46 waylon  find -name "*.p*" | xargs perl -pi -e "s/(use strict\;)/use strict\;\nuse lib \'<pathtoC4>'\;\n/gi";
19:45 waylon  if you assume that all p* files have use strict; in them.. then this line works.
19:39 waylon_ 450mhz i think...
19:38 waylon_ as far as moddile allthe files.. not messy. One, well.. two lines. Doesn't take long to process, on my p3 box. 192 mb ram.
19:37 slef    waylon_: modding all the files seems a little messy.
19:36 slef    waylon_: SSLRequireSSL in .htaccess... as long as your web host gives you a modssl server configured by default.
19:36 waylon_ slef: Dont even need that. A find | xarg line can put use lib '<path' statements into all your pl pm files.
19:35 slef    waylon_: just a SetEnv PERL5LIB in .htaccess files?
19:34 thd     slef: my suspicion is that the wiki authentication problems others have had on the wiki are browser, JavaScript, and cookie configuration specific problems.  I have made many posts to a small set of pages without any problem so I have been left out of the fun.
19:34 waylon_ btw... you don't even need any virtualhost entries, if you want koha running from the main hostname.
19:33 slef    that has reason
19:33 chris   it wasnt obscurity i was suggesting, just a different ip range for a start, one not externally routed
19:32 slef    waylon: some academics
19:32 slef    waylon: obscurity of the subdomain is probably worse than having both on one host... if someone discovers the hostname for the librarian pages, http://librarianhostname/ redirects them to the admin login... if it's on the same hostname as the OPAC, it's less obvious IMO
19:31 waylon  slef:who you setting up with koha?
19:31 thd     slef: I noticed to my disappointment that dokuwiki uses some buggy javaScript in the editor
19:30 slef    waylon: I have no qualms with it, if it's all that we have.  I think I'd want SSL on librarian if we can but may still be neater to merge the VirtualHost sections and SSLRequireSSL the librarian interface.
19:30 waylon  So.... I just put the intranet host, in another subdomain, and obscurity of the subdomain plus passwords are better than just passwords alone?
19:29 thd     slef: I am not an admin of that system but I have modified dokuwiki templates to good effect in the past
19:29 slef    thd: no, nor execute scripts, allow new windows, load images ...
19:28 waylon  slef: Okay. in essense, having koha in such a constricted enviroment, as a production basis, is not good.
19:28 thd     slef: so you do not accept cookies by default
19:28 slef    thd: I don't know what settings are needed by the wiki - could you list them on the login screen?
19:27 slef    thd: I suspect it's browser config.  It's an iceweasel, default policy is to deny everything (and blame the french).
19:27 thd     slef: what browser were you using when you had the permission denied message?
19:26 waylon  ah.. adding rules, means the attackers have more rules to enter into their password generators?
19:26 thd     slef: I am trying to diagnose the wiki authentication problem
19:26 thd     slef: you may have missed a couple of questions I asked when you were tripping over things
19:26 slef    waylon: constraining the password reduces the search space for attackers... remember enigma?
19:25 thd     waylon: storing backups in a safe place is probably more important than passwords
19:25 slef    thd: ping
19:24 thd     waylon: they could try devious means to gain access to the server.  Security does not require obscurity but it does help.  There is no reason that Koha should be a real target for a cracking attempt but that is no reason to be complacent and therefore the most visible target to some cracking system wanting to make mischief in libraries
19:23 chris   waylon: there is no reason to open the librarian interface up to the whole internet
19:23 rch     always better to have more security in place.
19:22 rch     people are bad with passwords.
19:22 rch     then the sysadmin constantly gets called to reset people's passwords :)
19:20 waylon  thd: hmm.. secure passwords, not less than x characters.... adding of some password rules, like having compulsory requirement to have a few numbers.... mixed case...
19:18 thd     waylon: they could attempt to guess a password for one
19:17 waylon  what could someone do, with a intranet, without a password, to comprimise it?
19:15 thd     slef: ping me when you are off phone
19:15 slef    thd: no. phone again.
19:15 chris   s/intranet/librarian interface/
19:14 chris   you might want ot put the intranet under https too
19:14 thd     waylon: if the address of the librarian interface is maximally secure it is probably also not widely distributed as an extra measure
19:14 chris   not really
19:13 chris   at least ones ive been involved with do
19:13 chris   with firewall rules in place
19:12 chris   most places have the intranet on another ipnumber entirely
19:12 waylon  no?
19:12 chris   thats not enough for most places
19:12 rch     waylon: i think it just makes sense.  two interfaces, two interfaces
19:11 thd     waylon: one is for the OPAC which library readers use and the other is for administration which only librarians use.
19:10 waylon  The question is.. why do we use two virtualhosts in the default koha?
19:09 waylon  no ScriptAlias.
19:09 waylon  So.. in other words... a extremely constricted enviroment.
19:08 waylon  anyway... ive managed, without support from the sysadmin at all, to put koha into a userspace enviroment, with no CPAN access, no PERL5LIB access, no virtualhosts (except for the subdomain that they gave me) .. no logs (CGI:Carp is your friend) ...
19:08 thd     waylon: what are your virtual host questions?
19:06 thd     waylon: yes but your audience is now much smaller
19:06 waylon  so thats it? I can ask my two virtualhost question now?
19:06 thd     slef: I am still hoping you have not gone to sleep
19:05 thd     goodbye Ohio
19:05 cm      bye all
19:05 rch     g'night, France
19:05 thd     good night France
19:04 toins   bye all
19:04 paul    bye world
19:04 thd     slef: are you still awake?
19:04 paul    now, I can go to bed ;-)
19:04 rch     sounds good, paul!
19:04 paul    so I'm confident we made something very sure for the future
19:03 paul    ENSMP is very very experienced in such structures.
19:03 paul    once the association exist, we will have our 1st public meeting, with everybody that want to join the association.
19:02 thd     russ: US grants are wasting away :(
19:02 paul    i'll let you know whent it will be official, of course.
19:02 russ    thd: small steps small steps
19:02 russ    great news paul
19:01 thd     paul: if johnb does not do anything I nominate the French organisation to run the international association
19:01 paul    kohala = "Koha Libre Association"
19:01 kados   w00t
19:01 paul    with the feedback, the "kohala" will be a reality.
19:01 kados   wow, that's great paul!
19:01 paul    we should have the feedback in something like 1 month.
19:01 paul    ENSMP should have transmitted them to governement
19:00 toins   ok
19:00 paul    (Non Profit Organization)
19:00 paul    ENSMP + sociology + me had the 1st meeting, we have signed the papers.
19:00 toins   NPO ?
19:00 thd     slef: are you here?
19:00 paul    the french NPO should be born next month.
19:00 thd     kados: I need more deailed diagnostic information for the wiki problem because I have not seen it myself
18:59 paul    I missed a VERY IMPORTANT NEWS !!!
18:59 paul    oh !!!!
18:59 paul    ok, great
18:59 kados   paul: yes
18:59 kados   thd: info is forthcoming on that
18:59 paul    kados : you'll write something on koha-devel about other topics ?
18:59 rch     paul: great
18:58 thd     kados: what is happening with the Copyright assignment for Koha with respect to Katipo and LibLime Ltd?
18:58 paul    (tomorrow morning)
18:58 paul    rch / kados i'll write something on koha-devel about tumer/head/rel_3_0 branches
18:57 kados   thd: I won't have time till probably fri or sat to work on it though :(
18:57 waylon  someone ableto tell me why we use two virtual hosts?
18:57 kados   thd: maybe write a mail to koha-devel? or to me privately?
18:57 kados   thd: unfortunatly yes, today is super busy
18:57 paul    rch ++
18:57 rch     perhaps more discussion of HEAD on devel list?
18:57 paul    I'll be here (even if baby is here)
18:57 thd     kados; so is it to late to discuss wiki authentication problems today?
18:57 hdl     Thx
18:56 kados   within a couple of weeks
18:56 kados   and I'll make sure to schedule another one soon
18:56 hdl     So do I.
18:56 kados   so lets close the meeting
18:56 kados   hehe
18:56 paul    (in my bedroom :-D )
18:56 hdl     tumer said he still waited for us in Cyprus :P
18:55 hdl     or is it windows related.
18:55 hdl     on savannah
18:54 hdl     Maybe an auhtentication problem.
18:54 hdl     he wnated to ask some more information to kados.
18:54 thd     hdl: what is preventing him from committing?
18:53 hdl     He has problems with mod_perl under Windows.
18:53 paul    thd : I already spoke of this with kados, so it's not my english :-)
18:53 hdl     But there are killer fetures in it.
18:53 hdl     tumer could not commit on head for quite a long time now.
18:52 thd     paul: you understand English better than I do :)
18:52 paul    thd : I think so
18:52 waylon  ahh.. like Debian freezes?
18:52 thd     paul: Was branch head what was meant by kados?
18:51 kados   paul++
18:51 paul    and say rel_3_0 is the official one, so in head.
18:51 kados   yep
18:51 paul    but say that tumer version is not head, but a specific one.
18:51 kados   paul: yea
18:51 slef    paul: france needs to move to english time ;-)
18:51 paul    thd : not delete head.
18:50 thd     kados: why would you ever delete head?
18:50 paul    waylon: tumer is a guy from Cyprus
18:50 dewey   i heard Tumer was having lots of authentication problems
18:50 waylon  Tumer?
18:50 rch     that makes sense to me
18:50 paul    tumer is not here, but I think branching head => tumer and rel_3_0 => head is a good idea.
18:50 paul    tumer is not here, but I think branching head => tumer and rel_3_0 => head is a good point.
18:49 rch     if there's a feature freeze, we need a head
18:49 kados   rch: good point
18:49 rch     are we still hitting rel_3 v HEAD
18:49 paul    waylon: reminder : it's 11PM here in france ;-)
18:48 kados   waylon: lets discuss that after the meeting
18:48 paul    yes, a last one : do we declare feature freeze on rel_3_0 branch ?
18:48 waylon  kados: any reason why we have two virtual hosts?
18:48 kados   anyone have any other points to discuss?
18:48 kados   hehe
18:47 slef    aw
18:47 paul    I don't expect koha 3.0 before this date :-D
18:47 kados   so I will talk to him about that when I return on the 15th
18:46 paul    when I see liblime demo opac, I think he could do a great job at designing "official" OPAC.
18:46 paul    lol
18:46 slef    paul: stop assigning bugs to them
18:45 paul    wow, there are many babies in koha team...
18:45 hdl     i think so
18:45 kados   i was in NZ, so don't know exact date
18:45 kados   about a week ago I think
18:45 kados   yep
18:45 paul    already born ?
18:45 kados   yep :-)
18:45 paul    a baby too ?
18:45 kados   paul: new baby
18:45 kados   but I could nominate him to work on it in his absense :-)
18:45 paul    maternity leave ?
18:45 kados   owen is on maternity leave
18:44 paul    yep, but I think they are quite basic & could be improved.
18:44 waylon  suppose i could start installing rel_3_0.... can it run under windows as well as rel_2_2?
18:44 kados   doesn't san have some?
18:44 hdl     But default css would be a great thing too.
18:44 paul    does anyone have any suggestion for point 4 (stylesheets) ?
18:44 kados   we will await hdl's new installer with great anticipation :-)
18:44 paul    ok, then i'm OK.
18:43 hdl     kados' one
18:43 paul    (which 3 ? mine or kados one ?)
18:43 kados   so I will set some time for LibLime staff to do internal testing of rel_3_0 and we will post bugs to bugs.koha.org
18:43 hdl     That still need some work on.
18:43 hdl     and provided good bases.
18:43 hdl     3 paul worked on It.
18:42 kados   yep
18:42 slef    2. should be solved by hdl's great work and forward-porting whatever we do for 2.2.8
18:42 hdl     kados:  point 1 we have done to a certain extent with our day in Paris Jan 22.
18:42 kados   I'd say that's what needs to be done
18:42 kados   hehe
18:41 paul    point 4 : migration
18:41 paul    kados : right
18:41 paul    - default CSS for OPAC & intranet.
18:41 paul    - testing & bugfixing (if we consider we are feature freeze, which is not official)
18:41 kados   as I see it we need 1. to test every component; 2. to make the install easier; 3. make migration scripts work better
18:41 paul    - installer
18:41 paul    I see 3 differents things to work on :
18:40 paul    yep.
18:40 paul    kados, what do we speak about now ?
18:40 kados   paul: so the question was 'what will be done for rel_3_0 to be ready for 3.0', right?
18:40 kados   hehe
18:40 slef    paul: flame the chairman ;-)
18:39 waylon  oh.. sorry paul..
18:39 hdl     But it is usually  OK.
18:39 paul    guys... we are speaking of 4 things at the same time, and it's quite confusing...
18:39 waylon  slef: Determine if you can set your PERL5LIB.. if not, you'll have to do a find and xarg, to set 'use lib'
18:39 hdl     perl -c is a first step.
18:39 kados   paul: but a lot has been fixed since then
18:39 slef    but I know much will have to wait until koha is configured
18:39 kados   paul: last time we investigated rel_3_0 it wasn't as stable as dev_week
18:39 slef    paul: we could perl -c (syntax check) them maybe?
18:38 hdl     http://www.openqa.org/selenium/
18:38 waylon  slef: its basically... put opac/ into the main cgi-bin/koha. put cgi-bin/koha, just the koha directory, into cgi-bin of the server.
18:38 kados   paul: well for one, chris will be working on Koha full time soon
18:38 paul    slef : because the result is a html page, that is hard to say wether it succeded or failed.
18:38 toins   (to discover some mod_perl specific bugs)
18:38 hdl     what about selenium ?
18:38 toins   and we can't test with multiple client connected to koha
18:37 slef    why can't we test .pl?
18:37 paul    kados : you said that 3.0 will be release when it will be ready. what do you plan to do to have it ready ?
18:37 paul    because we can't test .pl, that are 90% of our code.
18:37 hdl     slef : waylon wanted to say look at
18:36 paul    toins tried to work on /t, but we concluded that we could not do anything really interesting.
18:36 slef    <waylon> check out wayrob.freehostia.com
18:36 slef    or just an instruction?  is it a simple 'merge the two VirtualHost'?
18:36 russ    we trialled a few things, but nothing really worked out
18:36 thd     russ: chris had mentioned that a test suite was being developed at Katipo during devel week
18:36 waylon  slef: oh.... right.. you want a download...
18:35 slef    waylon: so how do I checkout it?
18:35 waylon  slef: cvs? don't have it.
18:35 waylon  actually.. password not theusual default....
18:35 thd     russ: what has happened with the general purpose test suite Katipo was developing for company wide use?
18:35 slef    cvs [checkout aborted]: connect to wayrob.freehostia.com(64.72.112.20):2401 failed: Connection refused
18:35 slef    ; cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@wayrob.freehostia.com:/ checkout koha
18:34 russ    in spirit only :-)
18:34 rch     thd: i hope liblime will be adding to the t/ dir
18:34 thd     russ: are you still here?
18:33 waylon  cardnumber: pntskoha ... password.. the usual default.
18:33 waylon  check out wayrob.freehostia.com
18:33 rch     :)
18:33 thd     rch: sorry,  yes I Imagined that you were rach :)
18:33 kados   toins: good point
18:33 slef    toins++
18:33 waylon  slef: ive already done that..
18:33 toins   becareful t/ directory can only test module function but not all the scripts individually
18:33 hdl     (some of the modules are 3.0 specific)
18:32 rch     you mean rach?
18:32 kados   thd: we'd have to ask russ or mason I think
18:32 slef    waylon: dunno... would help many people to merge them IMO
18:32 thd     rch: what has happened with the general purpose test suite Katipo was developing for company wide use?
18:32 waylon  why do we have two virtual hosts, when they coexist on one server happily?
18:32 paul    what hdl is doing is not specifically related to 3.0
18:32 kados   right
18:32 slef    if it's ready, of course
18:32 paul    slef : maybe.
18:31 slef    kados/paul: can we change installer for 2.2.8?
18:31 kados   hehe
18:31 kados   I have just resolved myself that 3.0 will be ready when it's ready
18:31 paul    I have librarians that don't want to pay for testing, but are OK to test if they don't pay ;-)
18:31 slef    kados: yes, but it really needs the web installer and new perl installer
18:31 kados   paul: it's the classic prob with OSS library software: librarians don't want to pay for testing software :-)
18:31 hdl     slef++
18:31 rch     t/ ++
18:31 rch     i've been working mostly on dev_week
18:30 paul    right. the question being : who works on those tests ;-)
18:30 kados   rch: wanna speak to that?
18:30 kados   rch has been testing on our end
18:30 kados   there is still a lot of testing that must be done before rel_3_0 can become 3.0 IMO
18:30 paul    we plan to setup a 3.0 at IPT.
18:30 kados   right
18:30 paul    but they don't use some features like acquisitions.
18:29 kados   ahh, two items under rel_3_0 status were hdl's installer and what to do with HEAD & rel_3_0
18:29 paul    here in France, we have SAN-OP going live with 3.0
18:29 thd     :)
18:29 kados   paul: oops, did I jump the gun? :-)
18:29 paul    we havent spoke of rel_3_0 status yet !
18:28 kados   my opinion is to delete HEAD and replace with rel_3_0 :-)
18:28 paul    kados : no
18:28 kados   there remains 'what to do with rel_3 and HEAD'
18:28 paul    kados: right
18:28 paul    that could be slef job + I had a french candidate from Debian to create a .deb
18:28 kados   slef: isn't threre already work on a .deb for 2.2.8?
18:27 kados   paul: great idea
18:27 thd     hdl: I trust that it looks great even if I cannot see for myself?
18:27 paul    the other part of koha setup being setting config file & virtual host can easily be put in a .deb / .rpm I think
18:26 hdl     I thought about chmodding dirr to 000  and getting to mainpage.pl
18:26 kados   great job hdl
18:26 kados   I'm excited about seeing the code when it's done :-)
18:26 kados   so the installer looks great!
18:26 hdl     Normally at the end. When install is finished.
18:26 thd     hdl: well, authentication is required there
18:25 kados   hdl: yep, I got it
18:25 hdl     kohaadmin
18:25 hdl     (your email box)
18:25 thd     hdl: no every hidden directory on my site is open if you know where it is :)
18:24 hdl     Cookies must be enabled.
18:24 hdl     kados ; same for you.
18:24 hdl     in agogme.com you have login and password.
18:23 thd     hdl: all I see is an authentication form.
18:23 hdl     )
18:23 hdl     (which was the good one.
18:23 hdl     I didnot know which framework to propose to persons for MARC21.
18:23 hdl     english I had no data to put in.
18:22 hdl     French language version of this page is more explicit than english atm.
18:22 hdl     and text to describe them.
18:22 hdl     sql to import data to mysql base.
18:21 paul    ...
18:21 paul    some authorized values
18:21 paul    (like patron categories, itemtypes...)
18:21 hdl     in the level directory, you have sql and text files.
18:21 paul    or a subset to setup a classic public library
18:21 kados   right
18:21 hdl     additionals would be any fancy framework or list for instance CD frameworks..
18:20 hdl     recommended : things that will highly ease the work of librarian.
18:20 hdl     required : for datas taht are necessary for Koha to Work.
18:19 kados   hdl: what is 'level'?
18:19 thd     paul: what  is the login for that page?
18:19 hdl     It is not hardcoded.
18:19 hdl     your level beeing required/recommended  or additionals or any other name you like.
18:18 kados   ahh
18:18 hdl     Now sqldatas should be in misc/sql-data/(en| fr)/ <your level>
18:17 hdl     Now sqldatas should be in misc/sqldata/
18:17 kados   hdl: what's the but :-)
18:17 paul    (on step 3, select "french" to see what it will be done for)
18:17 hdl     kados and all ther is a BUT.
18:17 hdl     BUT
18:16 kados   it's really great!
18:16 hdl     Still working on it.
18:16 hdl     kados not yet.
18:16 hdl     slef told me. Had no chance to correct this.
18:16 kados   is this committed?
18:16 hdl     2) looks mysqlconnection and database structure.
18:16 paul    (the step 3 is : http://i12.hdlaurent.paulpoulain.com/cgi-bin/koha/install/install.pl?step=3&op=selectframeworks and nothttp://i12.hdlaurent.paulpoulain.com/cgi-bin/koha/install/install.pl?step=3&op=selectframeworks%22)
18:16 kados   cool
18:15 hdl     throws a warning to librarian if not OK.
18:15 hdl     1) languageselection + module verification.
18:15 hdl     3.
18:15 hdl     It uses sqldumps user can make.
18:15 paul    + create the DB itself
18:15 kados   hdl: so the installer is just two steps? :-)
18:14 slef    and language selection
18:14 hdl     It is a web installer for all the data and datasets populating in Mysql.
18:14 tnb     hey mason :)
18:14 hdl     So you have the link ?
18:13 mason   hiya everyone
18:13 slef    (I've a problem with the perl installer... it keeps putting the CGI scripts in /usr/lib/site-perl, which isn't ideal)
18:13 hdl     (slef knows it)
18:12 paul    (you should prefill them in the template for the demo)
18:12 slef    waylon: there'll be a system-semi-dependent perl installer for doing the sysadmin install... then hdl's super web installer takes over for web and database
18:12 hdl     password and login you can get in your emila boxes.
18:12 hdl     i12.hdlaurent.paulpoulain.com/cgi-bin/koha/install/install.pl
18:12 paul    hdl, throw the URL ;-)
18:11 paul    slef: ++
18:11 waylon  OS independant web installer?
18:11 slef    I can ask a friend and see whether we can get a grant to fund a student to hack on a query language to xpath converter
18:11 dewey   good news is that search?q=callnum works now.  :)
18:11 kados   good news!
18:11 kados   hdl: added to 3.0 section ?
18:11 paul    yep...
18:11 kados   so there's a new installer for 3.0?
18:11 hdl     (Indexdata may have worked on that already.
18:11 paul    (/me starts training for the 4 voting days we will have soon ;-) )
18:10 kados   yea, that would rock
18:10 slef    if we're lucky ;-)
18:10 slef    kados: aye... I think it's more probable someone develops a query language -> XPath mapping for us
18:10 kados   so can we move to discussing 3.0 itself?
18:10 paul    kados: right
18:10 rch     thd: yes probably just indexing
18:09 kados   slef: so xpath might solve part of the problem, but we still will need to re-implement one or all of the query languages (CCL, CQL, PQF/RPN) if we want a consistant search API
18:09 thd     rch: unless someone has tests showing otherwise
18:08 thd     rch: XPath is much slower for indexing but should be comparably fast to no XPath after indexing
18:08 paul    it seems ;-)
18:08 kados   3.0_nonzebra I meant
18:08 kados   oops
18:08 kados   paul: so far 30=.0_nonzebra
18:07 slef    http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/xml-functions.html
18:07 slef    kados: I expect the world will be mysql 5.1 by the time koha 3.0sql is ready
18:07 paul    so, we speak of 3.0 or still 3.0_nonzebra ?
18:07 rch     (in zebra)
18:07 rch     xpath is much slower, yes?
18:07 kados   slef: I wonder how basic they are
18:07 kados   slef: esp if we switched to XPath in zebra
18:07 thd     kados: welcome to the real world of apparent work versus actual work required :)
18:06 kados   slef: ahh, so that's worth looking at
18:06 thd     hdl: I was referring to where the record is taken for display and editing not indexing
18:06 kados   as everyone probably knows, we're about a year behind our original estimates for the release date :-)
18:06 hdl     thd : it is not enough
18:06 slef     Beginning with MySQL 5.1.5, two functions providing basic XPath (XML Path Language) capabilities are available.
18:06 dewey   i already had it that way, kados.
18:06 kados   so the next and last item is 3.0 itself
18:05 thd     hdl: you could still have the nonmarc fields for indexing in SQL
18:05 waylon  so marc_word is still the best SQL way of searching.
18:05 kados   paul++
18:05 kados   even that I'm not sure about
18:05 kados   slef: maybe full text on the whole document
18:05 kados   slef: at least not fielded searches
18:05 paul    slef: I don't think either
18:05 kados   slef: dont think so
18:05 paul    i'll explain my idea deeper on the wiki.
18:05 slef    thd: can't mysql handle xml yet?
18:04 hdl     thd : if you do so, how can you index ?
18:04 waylon  marc_word tables etc?
18:04 waylon  so.. basically.. import all the SQL access/update stuff into 3.0?
18:04 thd     paul: given your thoughts for option 2 would the primary record be the XML record stored as whole instead of MARC in SQL?
18:04 kados   so the next and last item is 3.0 itself
18:03 kados   excellent
18:03 kados   I'm behind a SQL version of 3.0, but we will need to make sure 2.2->3.0_nozebra upgrade is seamless
18:03 paul    and see if they are acceptable or have to be solved.
18:03 paul    to see what kind of limits it will have.
18:03 kados   paul++
18:03 paul    so, I may investigate (& write something on the wiki) my idea.
18:02 rch     (cleaned api)++
18:02 slef    the cleaned api seems miles better.  no contest to me.  option 2 and crack the problems
18:02 kados   for what to do regarding the 2.2 vs 3.0 prob
18:02 kados   so I guess we don't have any strong direction
18:02 kados   hehe
18:01 slef    kados: rooting used to be funny to aussies
18:01 kados   sure
18:00 paul    so, back to 2.2.7/8 questions ?
18:00 kados   hehe
18:00 slef    kados: swine
18:00 russ    :-)
18:00 kados   bummer
18:00 russ    good fun even though the results didnt got the way we wanted
17:59 kados   russ: how was the cricket?
17:59 toins   hehe
17:59 kados   russ: s/bat/bag/
17:59 paul    libLime conquering the world !!!
17:59 kados   russ: the cat's out of the bat
17:59 paul    I almost thought it was the truth...
17:59 kados   :-)
17:59 paul    ah, I understand, it's a joke in fact...
17:58 kados   paul: April 1st if all goes smoothly :-)
17:58 kados   paul: not just yet :-)
17:58 paul    hi new liblimer.
17:58 waylon  hiya russ.
17:58 hdl     hi russ.
17:58 kados   a web installer?
17:58 russ    hello all
17:58 paul    no, web installer. but it's not time, wait a minut ;-)
17:58 kados   hey russ
17:58 paul    yep.
17:58 thd     ?
17:58 thd     paul: you mean to say that 'a nightmare' is less painful than 'a pain'
17:57 hdl     rebuildzebra you did ?
17:57 paul    hdl : maybe it's time to show up our new surprise ?
17:57 cm      yes, indeed!
17:57 kados   cm: that shouldn't be very hard, the hard part is going to zebra in the first place
17:57 cm      good.  :)
17:57 kados   cm: yea, don't worry
17:57 kados   right
17:56 paul    it's just a nightmare now ;-)
17:56 kados   paul: we're still testing rel_3_0
17:56 paul    and hdl & me already tried on 4 different DB (although not in production), and it's not a pain.
17:56 cm      yeah, please tell me dev_week -> 3_0 won't be too bad!  ;)
17:56 kados   just dev_week
17:56 kados   we don't have any rel_3_0 systems in production
17:56 paul    because we added many things to rel_3_0 to ease the process.
17:56 kados   2.2 -> dev_week
17:56 kados   sorry, right
17:55 thd     kados: you do not have enough practise :)
17:55 slef    the cleaned api seems miles better.  no contest to me.  option 2 and crack the problems
17:55 paul    2 to 3 or dev_week ?
17:55 kados   thd: and its' a real pain!
17:55 kados   thd: we've only done one of those
17:55 thd     kados: have your version 2 to 3 migrations been going any better lately?
17:55 paul    kados: something like that. Maybe 3 months in fact.
17:55 toins   humm... yep 2 months i think
17:54 kados   toins: was it about two months?
17:54 paul    kados arrived just before I spoke ot the 2nd pard.
17:54 kados   toins: how long did you work on improving the API in rel_3?
17:54 paul    thd : no, I just spoke of the 1st part of the job.
17:54 toins   thd, i think so too
17:54 kados   I fear upgrading from 2.2.x to 3.0_nozebra could be difficult to implement without a long testing period
17:53 thd     paul: had you not told me that option 2 would be relatively easy before kados appeared?
17:53 kados   and the process of upgrading from 2.2.x to 2.2.y works fairly well
17:53 kados   it's critical that we don't leave them hanging
17:53 paul    waylon: CCL/CQL/RPN are the 3 languages we can use to query a zebra DB.
17:52 kados   rel_2_2 I mean
17:52 slef    waylon: zebra-helpful query languages
17:52 kados   is that almost all koha libraries, hundreds of them, use rel_2
17:52 kados   one more problem
17:52 waylon  "CCL/CQL/RPN?
17:52 paul    but i'm not 100% happy with this idea.
17:52 paul    considering that small libraries means smaller features.
17:52 paul    maybe we could use only a small subset of CCL for example
17:51 kados   that's tricky
17:51 paul    I don't have the answer to the question.
17:51 kados   yea
17:51 paul    how to SEARCH with CCL/CQL/RPN in this db
17:51 paul    the BIGGEST problem being :
17:51 paul    marc_words idea
17:51 kados   ahh, right
17:51 paul    the mac_words idea
17:51 paul    we just had to improve "zebraop" to handle "indexing" of MARC records.
17:50 kados   what do you mean by 'reverted index of records'?
17:50 paul    i already have investigated that before we decided to go to zebra.
17:50 paul    - it should be "easy" to store a reverted index of records.
17:49 paul    the problem with the other possibility is that :
17:49 paul    (2 parameters) = AddBiblio(3 parameters) in 3.0
17:49 paul    (3 parameters) = NEWnewbiblio(3 parameters) in 2.2
17:49 paul    for example, adding a biblio was :
17:49 paul    the API changed in almost all .pm packages.
17:48 paul    the problem with point 1 is that rel_3_0 has been cleaned a lot by toins. So it will be a pain, to backport things.
17:48 kados   slef++ for clarifying
17:48 slef    3. feature-freeze rel_2_2, create a SQL version of rel_3 and /then/ stop support on rel_2_2
17:48 kados   slef: yea, that's what I meant
17:48 slef    3. create a SQL version of rel_3 and /then/ stop support on rel_2_2
17:47 kados   paul: sure
17:47 paul    I investigated a lot this question, can I explain ?
17:47 kados   2. stop support on rel_2_2 and create a SQL version of rel_3_0
17:47 kados   paul: yes
17:47 kados   1. backport improvements gradually from rel_3_0 to rel_2_2
17:46 paul    it's related to  SQL version of rel3 or backport improvements to rel2_2?
17:46 kados   we have two options I think:
17:46 kados   esp as it relates to the improvements that are in rel_3_0?
17:46 kados   can we talk about the future of 2.2?
17:46 slef    waylon: right... just fix the worst cockups
17:46 slef    waylon: or flag it in bugs.koha.org if you want (as that's something I'll check)
17:46 paul    waylon: right
17:46 kados   so before we talk about rel_3_0 and the release of 3.0
17:46 waylon  ah. okay. so 2.2.7.1 won't have the new features, that right?
17:45 slef    waylon: no, add everything to rel_2_2 and email koha-devel about any blockers/CRIs for 2.2.7.1 please
17:44 rch     but am running 2_2 on mysql5
17:44 waylon  huh? So.... I add bugfixes to rel_2_2_7, new features to rel_2_2?
17:44 rch     haven't tested thoroughly
17:44 slef    aye... sort of stuff that's been going on/going wrong this week, you never know  ;-)
17:44 paul    is 2.2 cmopliant with mySQL5 now ?
17:44 paul    rch : I see you did some commit for mySQL5 fixes.
17:44 kados   slef+++ when it's done ;-)
17:43 kados   slef++ for offering
17:43 paul    yep.
17:43 kados   paul: that OK with you?
17:43 slef    kados: I'll branch rel_2_2_7 and backport fixes if you want
17:43 kados   ahh, I see what you mean
17:43 kados   slef: to do a mini release
17:43 slef    so just 2.2.7 + paul's CRI + barcode + what else?
17:43 kados   slef: i worry we've done too much between 2.2.7 and now
17:43 paul    in fact, the 68 commits I have to check are related to bug for around 20 of them, and improvements/new features for around 50
17:42 paul    would be better that a poorly tested 2.2.8, with new features like holidays
17:42 waylon  huh? guess we've done alot of bugfixing.
17:41 slef    2.2.7.1 anyone?
17:41 paul    slef : ok, I understand. in french : "bonnet d'ane"
17:41 waylon  paul++ ... was goingto look at that today... had my linux boxen set up, to go ZOOM.
17:41 kados   hehe
17:41 slef    aha! paul++
17:41 paul    (probably BLO for you in fact ;-) )
17:41 slef    paul: mistake so embarassing that developer should wear a brown paper bag over head in shame
17:40 kados   paul++
17:40 kados   ahh
17:40 paul    critical
17:40 paul    (when searching on title)
17:40 kados   CRI?
17:40 paul    i also fixed a CRI bug in z3950 search today
17:40 paul    right slef.
17:40 slef    barcorde not barcode
17:40 paul    brown paper bag error ???
17:40 hdl     maybe.
17:40 slef    paul: there's a 'brown paper bag' error in 2.2.7's installer
17:39 paul    so in march, don't expect too many things from me
17:39 kados   right
17:39 paul    we are waiting for our 4th boy, and he should be here for late feb/early march.
17:39 slef    hdl: can we get installer-NG ready for it?
17:39 kados   sure
17:39 paul    (that I should have pointed as "news")
17:39 paul    just to point 1 important thing
17:37 slef    when is 2.2.8 aimed for?
17:37 kados   cool
17:37 paul    and maybe : http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/metadata/interoperability/dc_unimarc.html
17:37 paul    + http://www.ifla.org/IV/ifla64/138-161e.htm
17:37 kados   thd++
17:37 kados   taking the LOC marc21 as an example
17:36 kados   actually it might not be too much work
17:36 thd     yes
17:36 kados   thd: you wanna work on that? ;-)
17:36 paul    thd : yep
17:36 kados   thd: yep
17:36 thd     paul, kados: we just need a UNIMARC implementation of the XSLT transform
17:36 kados   so what else for 2.2.8?
17:36 kados   cool
17:35 paul    right. that was my plan too
17:35 kados   paul: until you or someone ahs time to create a stylesheet
17:35 kados   paul: i can hide the MODS + DC based on UNIMARC vs MARC21
17:35 paul    in UNIMARC, it's in 200$a
17:35 paul    in MARC21, it's in 245
17:35 paul    the XSLT must know where is the title.
17:35 paul    thd : the DC says "DC.Title" for the title.
17:35 paul    i know for months that someone will have to write the XSLT for UNIMARC => DC if it does not exist
17:35 hdl     UNIMARC is way back to have so good standard helps.
17:35 kados   paul: and it is completely independent of the rest of the system so it should work fine with rel_2
17:34 thd     paul: what do you mean by Dublin core not working with UNIMARC?
17:34 kados   paul: but not the new version that actually works
17:34 kados   paul: Record.pm is commited to dev_week and rel_3
17:34 kados   paul: right
17:34 hdl     Lucky you.
17:34 paul    you show me the stuff, but did not commit anything yet, right ?
17:33 hdl     :P
17:33 kados   hdl: I just used default LOC stylesheets
17:33 hdl     loc ones ?
17:33 kados   hdl: yep :-)
17:33 hdl     Cool. Are you using XSLT ?
17:33 waylon  thats interesting. Saving via MARC frameworks?
17:33 paul    right
17:33 kados   probably not either
17:33 kados   what about MODS?
17:33 kados   ahh, good point
17:33 paul    although i'm afraid DC schema will not work for UNIMARC
17:33 kados   ok, I'll put that on my list then
17:32 paul    would be great.
17:32 kados   paul: allows saving record in a variety of formats
17:32 kados   paul: see the 'save record' feature?
17:31 kados   paul: http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/bib/16595
17:31 thd     we need an internationalisation model which is not necessarily template dependent
17:31 kados   paul: you can tell me if you want me to commit it
17:31 kados   I have a small feature I created recently
17:31 kados   it's a lot of work
17:30 kados   yea, I can understand that
17:30 kados   maybe for 2.2.9 :-)
17:30 paul    s/great/huge/
17:30 hdl     should be a great job to translate all the stuff.
17:30 kados   ok, no problem
17:30 paul    kados: ++
17:30 kados   because no french translation + no stylesheets for french libraries
17:30 paul    we already have too many things to do.
17:30 hdl     atm I don't favour this idea.
17:30 kados   ahh, ok
17:30 paul    that would be a good thing. but i'm afraid we can't "afford" it here (in France)
17:29 kados   paul: do we want to eliminate default/css? or is it not appropriate?
17:29 paul    right
17:29 kados   hehe
17:29 paul    (you'll say ++ when it will be done ;-) )
17:29 kados   paul: we also discussed doing something with templates for 2.2.8
17:28 kados   paul++
17:28 paul    I have 68 commits to check on rel_2_2
17:28 kados   mason++
17:28 kados   excellent
17:28 rch     mason added to 2_2
17:28 paul    rch : yep
17:28 cm      rch, it seems to work in dev_week.
17:28 kados   cool
17:28 rch     yep
17:28 kados   rch: was it committed to 2_2?
17:27 rch     has anyone tested the holidays feature in 2_2?
17:27 kados   it will be fixed soon though
17:27 kados   the new corporate serials module
17:26 kados   I know there is at least one feature that still ahs some bugs
17:26 kados   2.2.8
17:26 kados   waylon: http://liblime.com/about/careers
17:25 waylon  liblime got a job list?
17:25 kados   so 2.2.8
17:25 kados   or questions, etc.
17:25 kados   so that's probably it for news unless anyone has any other items :-)
17:24 waylon  ah.
17:24 paul    if i understand correctly
17:24 waylon  iiuc?
17:23 kados   paul: correct
17:23 kados   and russ will be expanding the market in the austrialasia area
17:23 paul    so they leave katipo if iiuc
17:23 thd     kados: that is understood but would you estimate the degree as compared to the time they are currently spending?
17:23 kados   waylon: :-)
17:23 toins   great !
17:23 kados   so it will be especially good for the koha project
17:23 kados   chris and mason will have more time to devote on koha development
17:22 kados   paul: it's a subsidiary of LibLime US
17:22 waylon  LibLime Ltd NZ?
17:22 paul    LibLime Ltd NZ will be a part of LibLime US, or something else ?
17:21 thd     kados: what degree of difference will that likely mean for Koha development in terms of the time that chris, russ, and mason have as compared to the present?
17:21 kados   waylon: not sure 'give over' is the right phrase, but yea, katipo won't be working on Koha any more
17:21 toins   waylon, good question..
17:21 waylon  s/line/lime/
17:20 waylon  Will Katipo keep working on Koha, or totally give over to LibLine?
17:20 kados   so the arrangement is good for both of us
17:20 kados   and LibLime needs more capacity for Koha development and support
17:20 kados   katipo isn't a Koha company, they are web development company
17:20 kados   it's an agreement that will help both companies streamline our business workflow
17:19 paul    wow !
17:19 slef    thd: like a memorandum of understanding, I think
17:19 kados   paul: correct
17:19 kados   it's quite big news for us :-)
17:19 thd     kados: what is a 'heads of agreement'?
17:19 paul    hiring chris/russ/mason full time ?
17:19 kados   LibLime and Katipo have signed a 'heads of agreement' for LibLime to take over Katipo's Koha operation in NZ, including hiring Chris, Russ and Mason
17:19 kados   I'll post again for slef's benefit
17:19 cm      indeed!
17:19 hdl     WoW.
17:18 kados   LibLime and Katipo have signed a 'heads of agreement' for LibLime to take over Katipo's Koha operation in NZ, including hiring Chris, Russ and Mason
17:18 kados   so some of you may have heard already
17:17 hdl     (3.0)
17:17 hdl     but there are still some tricky ones with zebra.
17:17 waylon  which version, hdl?
17:17 kados   wow, that's great!
17:17 kados   hdl++
17:17 paul    hdl: 149 at the end ;-)
17:17 hdl     most of them fixed.
17:17 hdl     + there was a french bug session Monda 22 January ... 108 bugs were raised.)
17:16 paul    so, 2.2.8 ?
17:16 slef    it's in English too
17:16 paul    lol
17:16 kados   paul: at least in american english, dunno in NZ english ;-)
17:16 waylon  Ya.. when i don't have anything to do.. i pick up a bug and fix it.
17:16 kados   paul: it's an english idiom, means 'on the side project for fun'
17:15 hdl     (3.0 is in production at SAN WP but you knew.)
17:15 paul    pet project ???
17:15 kados   waylon++
17:15 cm      hi all
17:15 waylon  Good. im kinda taking on 2.2.x as a pet project.
17:15 kados   hi cm
17:15 cm      though we keep moving our target date.  :)
17:15 cm      ccfls should be going live with meadville in march...
17:15 kados   gotcha
17:14 paul    nope. 2.2.x
17:14 kados   paul: 3.0 installs?
17:14 kados   great paul!
17:14 paul    2 on public libraries & one for a high school
17:14 waylon  sweet, paul!
17:14 kados   (/me got first introduction to rubgy and cricket here in NZ)
17:14 paul    some business news : we are starting 3 new installs in france.
17:13 kados   who has some news? :-)
17:13 paul    it seems ;-)
17:13 paul    )
17:13 kados   so we did the introductions already :-)
17:13 paul    (hdl added "web installer" line too
17:13 kados   paul: ok, great
17:13 kados   waylon: been a while since I've seen you, welcome back :-)
17:12 kados   right even :-)
17:12 kados   ahh, righ!
17:12 waylon  eh.. i abandoned it, liking to use my real name.
17:12 dewey   genji is waylon_'s username
17:12 waylon  genji...
17:12 waylon  Genjimoto
17:12 paul    s/don't/didn't/
17:12 paul    I don't have any problem adding what slef wanted to add
17:12 kados   thd: what's that?
17:12 kados   anyone have anything to add to the agenda?
17:12 thd     kados: you would recognise the former nick of waylon
17:12 kados   but I assume since slef had trouble editing maybe others didn't get their stuff added?
17:11 kados   so we have an agenda
17:11 kados   ahh, cool
17:11 paul    all frenchies and probably all listening or looking for france-argentina soccer match maybe
17:11 kados   waylon: remind me where you're from?
17:11 waylon  must be cool, getting paid for doing koha work.
17:10 kados   paul++ :-)
17:10 paul    paul, hdl and toins are all from the same company too.
17:10 kados   tnb is Tina Burger, also from LibLime
17:09 kados   great, I'd say that's quorum
17:09 waylon  im here
17:09 kados   chris is still at a tech meeting
17:09 paul    while r*a*ch is Rachel, from katipo.
17:09 tnb     i'm here :)
17:08 paul    waylon was here few minuts ago
17:08 kados   rch is Ryan Higgins, he works for LibLime :-)
17:08 kados   hey rch
17:08 slef    MJ Ray
17:08 kados   slef, thd, hdl, toins, and kados so far :-)
17:08 thd     kados: maybe you had not completely reverted but we will discuss after
17:08 kados   who's here?
17:08 kados   so I guess first a roll call is in order
17:08 kados   hehe
17:07 kados   thd: sure, lets do that
17:07 kados   shoot
17:07 thd     kados: I know the template code very well but I do have some ideas for diagnosis if you want to discuss it after the meeting
17:07 slef    kados: yep
17:07 kados   slef: did you have trouble editing a page after you logged in?
17:06 kados   thd: so maybe the problem is not with the template
17:06 thd     kados: slef just reported a permissions problem with the wiki.  We could discuss what it might be at your convenience.
17:06 kados   but I've been in NZ for two weeks no :-)
17:06 kados   well, I would like to use that as an excuse
17:06 paul    + you're maybe still "jetlagged"
17:06 kados   so I suppose we can start
17:06 kados   :-)
17:06 paul    ;-)
17:06 paul    3mn late is not too much
17:05 kados   sorry I'm late :(
17:05 toins   hello
17:05 paul    hi kados
17:05 kados   hi all
17:05 thd     slef: sorry to pester you about this but maybe we could resolve the problem, which I have never seen myself in my own usage, if we had more diagnostic information.  Kados said that nothing appears in the error logs.
17:01 thd     slef: do you know what the page is locked by another user dokuwiki message is?
17:00 thd     slef: and what cookie and JavaScript policy do you have set for that browser?
16:58 thd     slef: what browser were you using when permission was denied?
16:57 thd     slef: Kados had imagined it was a template change which I had introduced but I think it is something else if he has actually reverted completely.
16:55 slef    thd: yes.  Exact error was in ""s above.
16:55 thd     s/ti/it/
16:55 thd     slef: what was the exact error message. Can you reproduce ti?
16:54 thd     slef: there have been some authentication/permission problems with the Koha wiki and I would appreciate a very complete bug report.
16:54 slef    thd: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php (Edit page link from agenda)
16:52 thd     slef: what wiki page claimed you had no permission?
16:52 paul    thd : i'm not sure, i don't have enough experience
16:52 thd     paul: do your Zebra scripts not work reliably every time?
16:51 hdl     was wiating for a good occasion.
16:51 hdl     not yet.
16:51 paul    you speak of web installer to slef ?
16:51 hdl     yes
16:50 paul    hdl around ?
16:50 thd     paul: I think the documentation is sufficient but it is not always as detailed and helpful as some MySQL documentation for the corresponding example.
16:49 slef    paul: I don't have write access to the wiki.
16:49 paul    the problem is that it's usually very hard to understand !
16:48 slef    buh!? "This page is read only. You can view the source, but not change it. Ask your administrator if you think this is wrong."
16:48 paul    thd : indexdata produces long & large docs.
16:48 slef    there are many wikis I can't edit - I thought this was another
16:48 thd     paul: I take it as given that Zebra is more difficult because Index Data does not believe in producing or has never been paid enough to produce full and complete documentation of the sort Ross Singer and I like.
16:48 slef    sorry about that
16:48 slef    apparently I do
16:48 paul    can't you do it yourself slef ? you don't have write access to the wiki ?
16:47 slef    can someone put 'installer' under the 2.2.8 heading on http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=agendandnotes07feb07 please?
16:46 dewey   hdl: I forgot thd
16:46 hdl     dewey : forget thd
16:45 paul    but I feel that it will be harder to maintain a zebra server than a full SQL one
16:45 paul    maybe you're right and i'm not confident enough with zebra for instance.
16:44 thd     paul: what do you mean.  Zebra functions are scriptable like any other good Unix application.
16:44 paul    I mean many things can't be automated because they require you to know exactly how to do them.
16:43 paul    no.
16:43 thd     paul: do you mean it requires authentication for the server?
16:42 paul    not all i'm afraid, because zebra is like unix : it's friendly, but very picky with who it's friends are...
16:42 thd     or set of scripts
16:41 thd     paul: could the issues for maintainance not be automated in a script?
16:41 paul    most of my customers don't have a computer geek near them & the server is always up.
16:41 paul    for example, backups are easy to do & well known.
16:40 paul    once installed & integrated in the local network, there's nothing to do.
16:40 paul    yes & no.
16:40 thd     paul: are any small libraries maintaining their own installation of Koha now?
16:38 dewey   slef: huh?
16:38 slef    dewey: mute
16:38 dewey   thd: I forgot it
16:38 thd     dewey: forget it
16:38 dewey   slef: huh?
16:38 slef    dewey: silence
16:38 dewey   slef: i'm not following you...
16:38 slef    dewey: shut up
16:38 dewey   it has been said that thd is just dying to tell you but I fear that if I reveal all I will lose the ability to obtain funding for a business myself. or skeptical about that as I would have seen only changes in the DOM that provide enhanced methods of access to the document historically.
16:38 paul    thd ???
16:38 thd     paul: yes but what small libraries are actually running Koha on their own even with just SQL in version 2 already?
16:38 paul    )
16:38 paul    (exporting datas from SQL to iso2709 & indexing in zebra
16:37 paul    reindexing requires around 1 hour
16:37 slef    now I've aimed dinner for the wrong time :-/
16:37 slef    only just saw that message
16:37 slef    dagnabbit, meeting was postponed by an hour
16:37 paul    waylon: mmm... for example, for a 200 000 biblios database (like SAN-OP),
16:37 thd     waylon: actually Zebra is perhaps more flexible for the effort required but alien to the common SQL knowledge people already have.
16:37 paul    for a small library without, it's impossible
16:36 paul    for a library with a full time computer scientist, it's possible.
16:36 waylon  how long does an indexing take?
16:36 paul    quite a complex things.
16:36 paul    reindexing everything
16:36 paul    THEN
16:36 paul    going to zebra config file & update them (which is a pain)
16:36 paul    THEN
16:36 paul    so, if the library decides that (in UNIMARC) 502 field is now usefull, they have to activate it in Koha, THE?
16:35 waylon  less flexiblity... right.
16:35 paul    3- it's really hard to change anything in the index structure (and unavailable to a librarian I bet)
16:35 paul    2- it sometimes crashes & requires full "reindexing"
16:34 thd     s/there/their/
16:34 paul    1- impossible to dump a zebradatabase
16:34 paul    thd :
16:34 thd     paul; what about maintaining zebra is complex for the user after installation, and what users are maintaining there own?
16:34 paul    zebra does only this, but as fast as lightning
16:34 waylon  ah.. this is instead of the MARC style indexing...
16:34 paul    "hey, retrieve biblios with title=XXX ..., pls"
16:33 paul    then, when someone search in the catalogue, koha ask zebra :
16:33 paul    we send a message to zebra saying "hey, zebra, please index this XML for me"
16:33 paul    but :
16:33 paul    waylon: when a biblio or an authority is added, we store the "raw" record (XML) in SQL. we (almost) don't have any index on it
16:32 paul    because it is hard to setup & maintain (from a user point of view)
16:32 waylon  what exactly does Zebra do?
16:31 thd     paul: why would anyone not want the advantages of Zebra?
16:31 paul    - zebraop function : zebraop stores something to tell zebra that the biblio has to be reindexed. we could check for a systempref, and, if zebra=off, we could use a reverted index to store things in SQL. I already wrote something about this when we started investigating tools for koha 3.0
16:30 paul    because there are many many new features in 3,0 that would be a pain to backport to 2.2
16:30 thd     paul: but what my original question meant is that why would you not continue with 2.X if you wanted to maintain SQL?
16:29 paul    2 in fact :
16:29 paul    the idea would be to have only 1 version. Only a few things would have to be modified.
16:29 thd     paul: actually, yes, my point of view without any customers to support is that maintaining multiple versions is too much work for the developers
16:27 paul    you want to know how much work it requires to develop it ?
16:27 thd     paul: I understood that much but ...
16:27 paul    (up to something like 30 000 biblios)
16:27 paul    it would be interesting for "small" libraries
16:27 paul    thd : a sql version of koha 3.0 would mean a version that don't need zebra.
16:25 paul    i'm ready ;-)
16:25 paul    baby sleeping, wife reading book to the 2nd boy, 1st reading alone.
16:24 paul    hello world
16:16 bureado Hey
16:15 slef    hi all
16:00 thd     kados: what would an SQL version of release 3 actually mean?
15:55 kados   mail sent to koha-devel too
15:55 kados   hdl: great, read you then
15:55 hdl     kados : I can be  back in an hour if every one agrees.
15:54 toins   hi all
15:54 toins   hello
15:54 hdl     hi kados.
15:54 hdl     hi toins
15:53 waylon  -nods- push it back then. hey, we need chris.
15:52 kados   chris can't make it either, he's got a conflicting tech meeting
15:41 waylon  thats fine.. if it is for the rest...
15:41 kados   we maybe need to push it back an hour
15:41 kados   and I think paul said he needed more time
15:40 waylon  20 minutes till meeting, ya?
15:40 kados   hi all
15:34 waylon  heya all.
15:29 bureado In Koha 2.2.7, when you Add a biblio, why is it so slow to load the MARC tags form? Does it load information about ALL tags? I assume that, from the User's Guide. Is there a way to avoid that? How do you improve the performance in the Add Biblio form.
14:36 paul    ok, time to leave for dinner. read you back in 2 yours for the irc meeting.
13:21 cm      i won't be getting to NZ anytime soon, but at least I'm going to Las Vegas next month.  :)
13:17 cm      bureado: yeah, koha can be humbling like that. ;)
13:16 paul    works with katipo ?
13:16 paul    what do kados in NZ ?
13:16 cm      technically, it should be "you're welcome"
13:16 bureado Don't feel silly. I've been fighting with the Intranet for 30 minutes trying to add a MARC framework until I found that the "OK" button in the spanish translation isn't type="submit" :(
13:15 paul    should I write "you're welcomed", our "your welcome" ???
13:15 cm      yep, thank you.  :)
13:15 paul    your welcome.
13:15 paul    cm ++
13:15 cm      sorry to bug you all!
13:15 cm      ran it with -today and it worked.
13:14 cm      okay, now i feel silly...I forgot to add the option on the end.
13:14 cm      i was just wondering why this fetchrow error would crop up.
13:13 rch     cm: you ran it with -all ?
13:13 cm      I know, on both counts.  :D
13:13 paul    zebra errors are more weird ;-)
13:13 paul    Can't call method "fetchrow" is related to mySQL, NOT zebra
13:12 cm      yeah.  but zebra has the password stored in all those kohalis files.  that's why I ran it.
13:11 paul    you would have something like "connection refused, for XXXX@kohaadmin on <mysql_db_name>"
13:11 bureado I think there might be an empty table somewhere.
13:11 bureado I haven't used update_items, but I don't think it's related with the authentication.
13:11 paul    mmm... if it's your 1st error message, then no, it's not related to the kohaadmin password change
13:10 cm      so I don't know if it's related to that or not.
13:10 cm      i had just changed my kohaadmin password and was running this from the command line to test it,
13:09 cm      Can't call method "fetchrow" on an undefined value at /usr/local/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/misc/update_items.pl line 93.
13:09 cm      fetching marc and items data, updating
13:09 cm      finding biblionumbers
13:09 cm      no recent items to update
13:09 cm      counting first
13:08 cm      i just ran update_items.pl, and got this error:
13:07 cm      maybe one of you can answer my question.
13:07 cm      hi guys.  :)
12:57 rch     hey paul
12:57 rch     kados is in NZ... it's still a bit early there
12:57 paul    hi cm & rch
12:57 rch     hi cm
12:38 cm      do you have a minute?
12:38 cm      hi kados