IRC log for #koha, 2006-09-28

Time	Nick	Message
12:02	thd	toins: do you think that file would make the download extra large?
16:08	thd	kados: are you there?
16:38	hdl	thd chris : is there a ccl zebra configuration tutorial online ?
16:38	hdl	kados ?
16:38	dewey	kados is becoming a true Perl Monger...
16:39	thd	hdl: not for Zebra specifically but for yaz there is
16:40	hdl	thd : it would be to know how to build ccl queries and configure search in zebra.
16:42	thd	hdl: building queries is easy
16:43	hdl	even if you try and search multiple criteria ?
16:45	thd	hdl: one problem if you are using the code which kados wrote then he had told me that had broken query nesting for his recent CCL zoomopac implementation
16:47	thd	hdl: study the Zebra configuration files recently committed for what kados had to provide CCL support
16:49	thd	hdl: and there should also be some barely existent documentation for how to run a CCL query in the recently updated Perl Zoom module
16:52	thd	hdl: with CCL structure and other attributes are generally set in the configuration file
16:53	thd	hdl: CCL is an ISO standard but it was withdrawn as an ANSI/NISO standard because web interfaces had came along at the time the standard was adopted.
16:57	thd	hdl: CCL is almost the same as CQL without the need to use operators to connect multiple words into a query so ti = flying circus works in CCL while CQL requires ti = (flying AND circus) or however it works exactly in CQL
16:59	thd	hdl: the actual query attributes used ti su au or whatever are merely a convention and not required in the standard which I have not read as far as I know
17:03	thd	hdl: some configuration syntax for czcats ...
17:03	thd	$bib1["kw"] = "u=1016 s=al";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xkw"] = "u=1016 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["ti"] = "u=4 s=al";
17:03	thd	$bib1["tw"] = "u=4 s=al";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xt"] = "u=4 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xti"] = "u=4 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["se"] = "u=5 s=al";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xse"] = "u=5 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["au"] = "u=1003 s=al";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xa"] = "u=1003 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xau"] = "u=1003 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["pu"] = "u=1018 s=al";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xp"] = "u=1018 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["xpu"] = "u=1018 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["date"] = "u=30 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["isbn"] = "u=7 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["issn"] = "u=8 s=pw";
17:03	thd	$bib1["lccn"] = "u=9 s=pw";
17:04	hdl	thx thd. this is much valuable.
17:05	hdl	I hope to be able to understand how to make it work soon.
17:05	thd	hdl:this follows yaz syntax for specifying CCL but is only found in the Yaz documentation to my knowledge
17:08	thd	hdl: the rest of my CCL configuration which includes RAMEAU ..
17:08	thd	$bib1["bnb"] = "u=10 s=pw";
17:08	thd	$bib1["bgf"] = "u=11 s=pw";
17:08	thd	$bib1["db"] = "u=52 s=pw";
17:08	thd	$bib1["mt"] = "u=1031 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["ddc"] = "u=13 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["udc"] = "u=14 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["lcc"] = "u=16 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["nlmc"] = "u=17 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["nalc"] = "u=18 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["cn"] = "u=20 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["su"] = "u=21 s=al";
17:08	thd	$bib1["xs"] = "u=21 s=pw";
17:08	thd	$bib1["xsu"] = "u=21 s=pw";
17:08	thd	$bib1["lcsh"] = "u=27 s=al";
17:09	thd	$bib1["xlcsh"] = "u=27 s=pw";
17:09	thd	$bib1["ram"] = "u=22 s=al";
17:09	thd	$bib1["xram"] = "u=22 s=pw";
17:09	thd	$bib1["rswk"] = "u=46 s=al";
17:09	thd	$bib1["xrswk"] = "u=46 s=pw";
17:09	thd	$bib1["rvm"] = "u=28 s=al";
17:09	thd	$bib1["xrvm"] = "u=28 s=pw";
17:09	thd	$bib1["mesh"] = "u=25 s=al";
17:09	thd	$bib1["xmesh"] = "u=25 s=pw";
17:09	thd	$bib1["note"] = "u=63 s=al";
17:09	thd	$bib1["xnote"] = "u=63 s=pw";
17:09	thd	$bib1["ab"] = "u=62 s=al,r";
17:09	thd	$bib1["ab"] = "u=62 s=pw";
17:10	hdl	Rameau and mesh ;)
17:10	thd	oops looks like the last line has a mistake should be abw
17:11	thd	hdl: czcats has absolutely every Bib1 attribute but not complete in CCL
17:11	thd	hdl: Do you men which ones i MARC 21?
17:12	hdl	I will look in att files.
17:13	thd	hdl: in MARC 21 topical subjects use 650 and the indicators and $2 specify the thesaurus used
17:13	thd	hdl: this is very similar to UNIMARC usage
17:21	thd	hdl: the relevant section of the Yaz documentation is http://www.indexdata.dk/yaz/doc/tools.tkl#CCL
17:24	thd	hdl: one caution, if you do not specify the structure attribute in your configuration Yaz will set it to phrase for queries with only 2 or 3 words if I remember
17:25	hdl	how can I specify the structure attribute in your configuration Yaz ?
17:25	thd	hdl: I found that behaviour undesirable even if it were sometimes helpful so I always set structure explicitly
17:25	thd	hdl: s is a Yaz nickname for structure
17:27	thd	hdl: actually my earliest experiments with PHP/YAZ found that using the numeric values for some attributes in CCL did not work well so my CCL configuration does not use the numeric values
17:29	thd	hdl: numeric values always worked fine for me using Polish notation with PHP/Yaz but not CCL, although, that may have been a bug eliminated in more recent versions
17:31	thd	hdl: actually use attribute 21 is much more reliably supported when doing remote queries than specifying any particular thesaurus
19:46	thd	+ c
07:23	kados	morning everyone
07:23	kados	paul: did you do an announcement about koha 2.2.6?
07:23	toins	hi kados
07:24	paul	hi kados.
07:24	paul	nope, because I just found a bug just after uploading 2.2.6 :-(
07:24	kados	what bug?
07:24	dewey	bug is, like, most likely that you have truncated the system preference with VARCHAR(200) instead of TEXT
07:24	paul	in MARC editor, when you have hide_marc=ON and want to repeat a subfield that is the only subfield of the field
07:25	paul	quite a tricky one... but toins is investigating, as it's probably javascript
07:38	thd	kados: yesterday, paul asked abut whether to include the simple frameworks.
07:38	kados	thd: right ... what is your feeling?
07:38	paul	hello thd, thx to remind me this.
07:39	paul	my question was just to ask you about the official release : the 2 marc21_* frameworks are 10MB large, and the .tar.gz size has grows highly
07:39	paul	I just wanted to know if I let those files in the tarball or not.
07:39	thd	paul: marc21_simple_frameworks.sql started as custom set of non-standard frameworks for different record types for one particular library to their specification. However, since I created it the frameworks are close to what standard frameworks for those record types would be except for about 10% hidden fields, absent by default for new records, in addition to too many fields being collapsed in the editor at the customer's request
07:40	thd	paul: it is only heavy because the frameworks must replicate any possible subfield as hidden to avoid data loss in editing copy catalogued records.
07:40	paul	and also why you putted them in misc/ and not in misc/sql_files/en/frameworks to let libraries adding them easilly during setup
07:41	thd	paul: well they are not quite standard so they should have 10% more fields and fewer collapsed values to be standard
07:43	thd	paul: so they are a supplementary option until someone has the time to adjust the custom values to standard ones
07:44	thd	paul: anyone could replace the default framework by importing the SQL file
07:44	paul	thd : I don't want to argue about the content of the file, you know what you're doing. I just want to know if I let them in the release & if I let them at this place, where is is quite hidden & can't be found easily by 1st time installer !
07:46	thd	paul: maybe since they also include the default framework, they are better than nothing but I would recommend the default framework alone until simple is adjusted for standard values
07:48	thd	paul: default supports many different record types, in itself, perhaps a little too many :)
07:49	thd	paul: so maybe leave it out for now if it grows the file size very much
07:49	thd	unless kados has a different thought
07:51	thd	kados may think they are good but he has not tried actually cataloguing with it for real instead of just a pretend test
07:55	thd	paul: actually I think kados should agree because even if it is otherwise close too many of the collapsed values are silly which kados considers to be a blocking bug. Yet, that was what the customer wanted in that case.
07:58	thd	kados: you had not yet modified your plugins for fixed fields to support the additional frameworks had you?
07:59	kados	thd: no
07:59	kados	I think we should hold off on the simple bib framework's inclusion in the release by default
07:59	kados	maybe for 2.2.7
08:00	kados	let my clients work out some of the issues with it
08:00	thd	kados: when those are ready simple should be part of the distribution even if the rest of simple is not yet standard
08:02	kados	paul: you noted that acquisitions in broken in the release notes?
08:02	kados	s/in/is/
08:02	paul	I added :
08:03	paul	* don't use spaces in currencies codes. Use USD, not US DOLLAR, for example. spaces breaks acquisition module.
08:03	kados	http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1146
08:03	kados	I will test this right now
08:04	kados	paul: how do I delete 'the two lines' from the db?
08:04	paul	manually, with phpmyadmin or something like that
08:04	kados	paul: what table?
08:04	paul	aqorders
08:05	kados	delete from aqorders; ?
08:06	paul	yep, but with "where ...", otherwise you'll empty it ;-)
08:08	kados	acqui/newbiblio still has the js error:
08:08	kados	Error: f.elements[currency] has no properties
08:08	kados	Source File: http://koha.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/[…]lerid=1&basketno=
08:09	kados	Line: 147
08:09	kados	and what is 'invoice number'?
08:11	kados	and I still don't understand the distinction between 'order' and 'basket'
08:17	paul	the order is 1 line of a basket.
08:19	paul	you still have "US DOLLAR" as currency.
08:19	paul	so, there is a space. remove it, it should be better
08:19	paul	US_DOLLAR or USD
08:20	kados	I have USD
08:20	kados	http://koha.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/[…]admin/currency.pl
08:20	paul	hehe... but you don't have modified your supplier currency.
08:20	paul	so it's still US DOLLAR
08:20	paul	(& I agree it's a shame that koha don't tell you)
08:21	kados	ok, it's modified
08:21	paul	miracle ! it works now ;-)
08:21	paul	about invoice number !
08:21	paul	:
08:21	kados	wait ...
08:22	kados	where are the orders I created before?
08:22	kados	ahh, I see now
08:22	kados	good, it seems to work
08:22	paul	it's something that had been done by katipo for Koha 1.x.
08:22	kados	so invoice number and also parcel code
08:22	paul	you get here a possibility to order AND recieve something
08:22	kados	and why is there a basket-level invoice number
08:22	paul	right, it's something we forget to change in the templates.
08:23	kados	it should be removed?
08:23	paul	not sure, even if none of my libraries used it : if they already have something, they don't order it, they just catalogue it !
08:23	paul	you should ask katipo I think
08:24	kados	katipo doesn't use this acquisitions as it's broken for them
08:24	kados	they re-wrote it and keep it in their own CVS
08:24	kados	so what is invoice number?
08:25	kados	and it is marked with a *, seems to be a required field?
08:26	thd	kados: chris had told me that he committed all fixes to the koha cvs
08:26	kados	thd: not rel_2_2 though
08:26	thd	yes, not rel)_2_2
08:27	kados	like closing a basket for instance ... what if I did it by accident?
08:28	kados	or what if I want to delete a supplier?
08:28	kados	paul: also, the prices don't display on the order screen
08:29	kados	paul: i said something costs 12.00, but it doesn't show up in basket.pl
08:30	kados	paul: I understand you want to get 2.2.6 out asap
08:30	hdl	kados: it was to be out in March.
08:30	kados	paul: perhaps you can just mention that there are many bugs in acquisitions and that we'll try to fix them in 2.2.7
08:30	kados	hdl: that is the problem with 'timed' releases
08:31	paul	kados : i said something costs 12.00, but it doesn't show up in basket.pl >> what do you mean ?
08:31	kados	hdl: in March, 2.2.6 would have been a disaster
08:31	paul	http://koha.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/[…]sket.pl?basket=19 seems to work
08:31	kados	ahh, so it's the javascript problem, you have to manually fill the fields
08:32	hdl	kados : release early, release often.
08:32	paul	kados : I have 1 library using 2.2.6RC live since 2 weeks, and they do acquisitions without any problems.
08:33	kados	hdl: only when there is stable code
08:33	paul	hdl : this is something for unstable softwares. for stable, you have to be more careful
08:33	paul	ok, kados, you won ;-)
08:33	kados	paul: so invoice number? could you explain it a little big?
08:34	kados	s/big/bit/
08:34	hdl	yes but between 224 and 226 what a big change.
08:34	hdl	->[]
08:34	paul	a little big too, if you want ;-)
08:34	kados	:-)
08:35	kados	hdl: 2.2.6 is _almost_ as stable as 1.2 :-)
08:35	paul	if you enter an "invoice" (=parcel code) here, you tell to koha that your order is already recieved and attached to a given parcel
08:35	kados	ahh ...
08:35	paul	but you should ask katipo about this feature, as I don't use it & never modified it (at least volunteerly)
08:35	kados	ok
08:36	kados	I'll ask chris later today
08:36	kados	I suspect it should be removed from this version
08:36	kados	unless you can confirm that it still works
08:37	kados	in fact, this is quite a strange feature ... if the order is already received, then when you close the basket it should not be able to be received again
08:37	kados	and if a basket has an order that's already received, how can it have one that's not?
08:41	kados	paul: receiving still is broken
08:42	kados	paul: when I click on 'save' after receiving an order, it says '0 bibliographic records received'
08:42	kados	and the list of pending orders is gone
08:43	kados	I will try now in default templates
08:44	kados	ok, it works in default it seems
08:44	kados	so I will ask owen to update npl templates
08:44	paul	I won't announce 2.2.6 until owen or kados confirm that the templates are fixed.
08:44	kados	paul: thanks
08:45	paul	(and i'll upload a 2.2.6b or something like that)
08:45	paul	(because i'm afraid savannah won't accept another koha-2.2.6.tar.gz file
08:45	kados	strange
08:45	kados	can you remove the one that exists and then re-upload?
09:56	toins	kados: are you around ?
09:58	kados	toins: yep
09:59	toins	kados: just want to something about dev_week opac
09:59	kados	ok
10:00	toins	s/to/to know/
10:01	toins	kados: are opac-search.pl opac-zoomsearch still used ?
10:01	toins	or there is ONLY search ?
10:02	kados	toins: there is only search
10:02	toins	ok
10:02	toins	good
10:02	paul	no, there is only XUL
10:02	paul	hop /me ->[]
10:03	toins	hehe
10:03	toins	!
10:03	paul	kados, another note : when a library has hide_marc=ON, the cloneSubfield in MARC editor was buggy.
10:03	paul	Super-toins fixed it, and it work fine now for default templates.
10:04	kados	toins++
10:04	paul	do you want to report the fix to npl (i can do it if you want)
10:04	kados	I will tell owen
10:04	paul	ok.
10:04	kados	toins has committed the fix?
10:04	kados	hehe
10:04	toins	kados: yes

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