IRC log for #koha, 2006-06-19

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:09 kados hi
12:11 kados thd: so now you've mastered the command-line utilities :-)
12:11 kados thd: the sky is the limit :-)
12:11 thd kados: yes the world is much faster on the command line and I did my old job on the command line
12:12 thd kados: I would not even think of using an MS windows system on anything other than the command line either but I have not done that for some yers
12:13 kados here is your email:
12:13 kados "the record editor was removing the
12:13 kados 'a' from leader position 09.  That is an easily reproducible if you simply
12:13 kados duplicate a repeatable field.  The 'a' will be lost from 000/09 once the
12:13 thd s/yrs/years/
12:13 kados record is reloaded.  "
12:13 kados I suspect that this is now fixed since duplicated tags nolonger require a page refresh
12:14 thd kados: well that avoids the worst problem when everything was working that you lost your place in the record if you duplicated a tag because there ws no anchor follolwed for the refresh
12:15 kados right
12:15 kados thd: I just tested duplicating a tag
12:15 kados thd: seems to be working well
12:15 kados owen-away: you around?
12:17 thd kados: the second worst problem when everything was working was the nuissance of pushing subfields around with arrows instead of inserting them at aparticular point from a selection list or having them in the coreect order by default
12:17 thd s/coreect/correct/
12:19 thd kados: there is plenty of time to fix that in future along with adding fields and subfields which are not set to appear by default
12:22 thd kados: do you have any more clever ideas about how to restore my X-windows server so that I can be a perfect speller and test these bugs for myself again.
12:22 thd ?
12:23 thd kados: otherwise I will be reporting the editor as riddled with bugs again because nothing works in lynx.
12:25 thd kados: am I still connected?
12:26 kados thd: yes
12:26 kados thd: sorry, had a phone call
12:26 kados thd: can you paste in the error you're getting when you run 'apt-get -f install'?
12:27 kados thd: to paste in screen you go:
12:27 kados C-a C[
12:27 kados well ... that's to copy
12:27 kados to paste you go:
12:27 kados C-a C-]
12:27 kados (where 'C-' represents the 'control key'
12:27 kados )
12:27 kados :0(
12:36 kados thd: did it work?
12:47 thd kados: there is something fundamental that I am missing about using screen
12:48 kados hehe
12:48 kados perhaps
12:48 kados one thing to remember
12:48 kados you can always bail yourself out with C-a "
12:49 kados to pull up a menu
12:49 kados and try not to confuse yourself by creating threaded screens :-)
12:49 kados you can re-name a given terminal with C-a A
12:50 kados I use that to help organize the menu that comes up with C-a "
12:50 thd kados: after I leave a screen terminal with C-a d how do I start a new process in such a way that I can have the new process under the control of the same screen process?
12:50 kados thd: think of it as tabbed browsing
12:50 kados thd: when you start screen you have one tab
12:50 kados thd: you can create a new tab with C-a c
12:51 kados thd: you can get a list of tabs with C-a "
12:51 kados thd: does that make better sense?
12:51 thd kados: yes that is the problem, I am always opening a new window instead of a new tab or at least think that I am
12:51 kados right
12:51 kados each 'tab' is it's own terminal
12:51 kados thus, screen is called a 'terminal multiplexor' :-)
12:51 thd C-a c is the answer?
12:51 kados yes, that creates a new tab
12:52 kados you can rename the tab with C-a A
12:52 kados of course, they don't really appear as tabs
12:52 kados (though you can set them up to, but that's an advanced topic)
12:53 thd kados: do I invoke C-a c after C-a d or directly from the application that I am already using?
12:53 kados thd: you only use C-a d when you are done for the day
12:53 kados thd: at the beginning of the day (as early as 4am), you begin work ... log in and issue:
12:54 kados screen -r
12:54 kados now you're in your screen session
12:54 kados if you need a new tab type
12:54 thd kados: that has been my problem I tried to use it before what I had hoped was another tab
12:54 kados C-a c
12:54 kados right, that won't work
12:54 kados it will disconnect you from the screen session
12:54 kados which is not what you want
12:55 kados thd: you only want to run one screen session at a time
12:55 kados thd: if you type 'screen -list' it will report how many you're running
12:56 thd kados: I realise that I only want one because the advantages of having every application in a separate screen session are small.
12:57 kados there are definitely times when you want more than one, but not when you've started learning screen :-)
13:04 thd kados: after pressing enter for the default options to configure xserver-xorg I have the following lines
13:04 thd (Reading database ... 170488 files and directories currently installed.)
13:04 thd Preparing to replace x11-common 6.8.2.dfsg.1-11 (using .../x11-common_1%3a7.0.22_i386.deb) ...
13:04 thd Unpacking replacement x11-common ...
13:04 thd dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x11​-common_1%3a7.0.22_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/X11R6/bin', which is also in package navigator-smotif-477
13:05 thd Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/x11​-common_1%3a7.0.22_i386.deb
13:05 thd E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
13:05 kados ok
13:06 thd kados: is this my penalty for trying to have navigator-smotif-477 ?
13:06 kados thd: to fix this, you need to go:
13:06 kados apt-get remove --purge navigator-smotif-477
13:07 kados thd: you can re-install it later
13:07 kados thd: but first we need to resolve all these conflicts
13:07 thd kados: yes that is what I thought
13:07 owen kados: I'm back. You rang?
13:08 kados owen: yea ... I was gonna talk briefly about the MARC editor
13:08 kados owen: I have some ideas for imporving the user's experience in the npl templates
13:08 kados owen: one of the things that the catalogers told me was that they want 'everything on the page' with no scrolling
13:09 kados owen: which seems reasonable to me :-)
13:09 kados owen: also, i think we need a few new hotkeys for rapid switching between sections
13:09 kados (thanks)
13:10 kados for instance, it should be possible to duplicate a subfield with a simple keystroke combination
13:10 owen Getting into some javascript territory I'm not familiar with, but we can work on it
13:10 kados same goes for re-ordering the subfields
13:11 kados i think the scrolling bit might be the most challanging
13:11 owen The first snag that comes to mind is how you handle context--how does the system know which field you want to duplicate?
13:12 owen How does it know where you are on the page?
13:12 kados thd: it can find where the cursor is
13:12 kados toops
13:12 kados owen: it can find where the cursor is currently positioned
13:12 owen Anyway, we can lay out the feature list and see what we can do with it
13:12 kados owen: and isn't there an 'e' in js that has some kind of sense of context?
13:13 kados if you pass 'e' along it passes some environment vars?
13:13 kados or something :-)
13:13 owen an 'e' ?  That's new to me.
13:13 kados maybe not
13:14 kados owen: maybe, just for the sake of layout, we can remove the left-hand navbar from that screen
13:14 kados owen: that would free up some room
13:15 kados owen: also, quite a lot of the top of the page is currently occupied by the 'Edit MARC Record with Framework' line
13:15 kados owen: i wonder if that could be made teeny-tiny and scooted up to the upper-right hand side of the page parallel to the 'Xataloging Home | Add MARC, etc' links
13:16 owen Certainly
13:17 owen I've wished for ages that we could display the actual title of the record being edited instead of just the 'edit marc record' heading
13:17 kados right
13:18 kados that should be possible
13:18 kados lemme check the script
13:20 kados unfortunately, it would reqire some additional coding
13:20 kados so I'm not sure paul would be thrilled about having that in rel_2_2
13:21 kados owen: we seem to have lost the 'economical' vs 'standard' display in the MARC view
13:22 kados owen:[…]
13:22 kados owen: there are actually two 650s there
13:22 kados owen: LabelMARCView is the name of the syspref
13:24 kados this must be due to paul's new changes :(
13:24 owen What do you mean we lost it?
13:27 kados well ...
13:27 kados it used to be that if LabelMARCView was set to 'standard'
13:27 kados you'd have:
13:27 kados 650 $asubject $bsubfieldb
13:27 kados 650 $asubject 2 $bsubfieldb 2
13:27 kados and if it was set to 'economical' you'd have:
13:28 kados 650 $asubject $bsubfieldb $asubject 2 $bsubfieldb 2
13:28 kados but on SMFPL it's set to 'standard' but displaying as 'economical' :(
13:28 kados does that make sense?
13:29 owen Yes
13:32 kados wait a second
13:32 kados it's worse than I feared
13:32 kados that's how things are being _saved_ now !!!
13:32 kados holy #$%&
13:33 thd kados: I upgrading now
13:33 kados thd: congratulations
13:33 kados thd: i found another bug in the MARC editor
13:33 thd kados: how do i scroll bak this IRC client?
13:33 thd s/bak/back/
13:33 kados thd: now, repeated fields aren't saved as repeated fields :(
13:34 kados thd: I don't scroll back, I use logs
13:34 thd kados: how do I activate the logs or are they on by default?
13:35 kados thd: you have to set them up, it's a complicated process that I've only done once :-)
13:35 kados thd: so I can't recall how exactly it works :)
13:35 kados thd: man irssi may be of some help
13:35 thd :)
13:36 owen[…]as=&search=Search
13:37 owen Man, I'm not keeping up with template updates like I thought I was
13:38 kados owen: I wonder if that is related to my problem
13:42 owen That fixes the problem with the subjects display
13:43 owen I don't think the LabelMarcView pref affects the OPAC
13:47 kados owen: what fixes the problem?
13:47 kados owen: a change you just found?
13:48 kados owen: an the labelmarcview should affect the OPAC as well
13:48 kados owen: that is, it's supposed to
13:48 kados this problem goes deeper than just display though
13:49 kados paul's changes have broken the ability for the system to save repeated fields seperately
13:54 thd kados: how are repeated fields saved if not separately?
13:54 kados thd: they are saved under the same field
13:55 kados thd: so 650$a$b$c 650$a$b$c becomes 650$a$a$b$b$c$c!!
13:55 owen I just committed a small change to opac-MARCdetail.tmpl that prevents the display from running together like you pointed out
13:56 kados owen: thanks
13:56 owen But that doesn't have anything to do with the problem you're talking about now
13:56 kados owen: right
13:56 thd kados: was that the behaviour he was attempting to emulate as his user's have preferred to see MARC records displayed in that less verbose manner? :)
13:57 kados thd: I certainly hope not
13:58 thd kados: maybe it made the problem harder to identify if the MARC display did not distinguish between what was correct and what was incorrect on his choice of preferences.
14:03 kados thd: good point
14:04 kados thd: is there a stray 100$9 right above 600$a in your MARC Bibliographic framework?
14:05 kados I think we're also back to saving blank subfields again
14:05 kados sheesh
14:05 kados we've completely reverted
14:08 kados also lost our 'tab between fields' feature
14:08 thd kados: I told you that there were bound to be mistakes in the bibligraphic framework that large
14:09 kados thd: of course ... just wondering if it was intentional
14:10 thd kados: that sound like most of the easy errors form yanking and pasting similar lines without correcting everything in the new location after that.
14:10 thd s/soud/seems/
14:10 thd s/sound/seems/
14:11 kados wow
14:11 kados the back button is broken too
14:11 kados such that if you save something
14:11 kados then go back
14:11 kados your repeated 650 jumps into the 651!!
14:11 kados this is just nuts
14:12 thd kados: far too much JavaScript in the world breaks the basic navigation functions
14:12 thd of web browsers
14:12 kados yep
14:20 owen How nice to have my laptop reboot itself without warning.
14:23 kados heh
14:25 owen I see a reference to LabelMARCView in, but when I turn the preference on and off I don't see any difference in either the npl or css template
14:27 kados owen: it's not an on/off preference
14:27 kados owen: it should have two values: standard | economical
14:27 owen I just mean when I switch the two options
14:27 kados ahh
14:27 kados working with rel_2_2 and NPL's data?
14:27 owen Yes
14:28 kados on 101?
14:28 owen Yes
14:28 kados and you've got a record that has repeated fields?
14:28 kados ie, two 650s or something?
14:29 owen Sorry--I was thinking I was looking at something else.
14:29 owen I was meaning to be testing hide_marc
14:29 kados ahh
14:29 kados right
14:29 kados well ... there's another one too
14:30 kados there used to be a way to turn off the labels altogether
14:31 kados yea, here it is: advancedMARCEditor
14:31 kados If set, the MARC editor won't show you tag/subfields description
14:34 owen[…]mple/
14:34 owen Just starting to play around with the layout
14:35 owen kados: when you're using screen, how do you manage editing more than one file at once? Do you open new sessions for each?
14:35 kados yep
14:36 owen New screen sessions? Doesn't that mean you might be logged into one machine 15 times?
14:36 kados wait
14:36 kados no, not new screen _sessions_
14:36 kados I just open a new terminal within the screen session
14:36 kados C-a c
14:36 owen Yeah, I don't mean sessions
14:36 kados right
14:36 kados well ...
14:37 kados in some cases
14:37 kados like NPL
14:37 kados I manage several boxes on the same network
14:37 kados and for those instances, I practice threaded screening :-)
14:37 owen I just wondered if there wasn't something I didn't know about vi having multiple buffers or something
14:37 kados so my first and primary screen is on a liblime box
14:37 kados using that one, I log into an NPL box
14:38 kados and start an instance of screen on that NPL box
14:38 kados to control that screen session I use C-a a X (where X is the command)
14:39 kados I'm pretty sure you can mess with vi buffers too
14:39 kados I've just never had time to figure out how :-)
14:39 kados let me know if you figure it out :-)
14:44 kados in vi you may need to type:
14:44 kados :syntax on
14:44 owen Swank
14:45 kados you can save that somehow
14:45 owen :)
14:45 kados :save or something
14:45 kados or edit your vimrc file
14:45 thd colour syntax highlighting is a feature of vim not vi
14:51 kados vi is a symlink to vim
14:51 kados so you're covered :-)
14:52 owen Nice to know what I'm really using
15:08 kados all that mousing :-)
15:09 kados heck, I only have one mouse button now :-)
15:09 kados hehe
15:09 kados apple-click does the same thing
15:10 kados and it's right where your thumb is
15:10 kados so not really hard to use
15:10 kados course, you can still use a multi-button external mouse
15:10 kados I've got a 5 button somewhere around here ... but never got around to getting proficient at it
15:20 kados owen:
15:20 kados owen: standalone versions of all the important IEs
15:20 kados owen: in case you're interested :-)
15:20 owen Yeah, I've seen that. I'm so lax about testing for older versions of IE, though.
15:21 kados hehe
15:21 kados I just got a great book
15:21 kados called 'Web Design in a Nutshell'
15:21 kados third edition
15:21 kados it's got a fantastic overview of nearly everything related to web design
15:21 kados and it's published 2006, so very up to date
15:22 owen I've heard of it, but I've never looked at it before
15:22 kados you should try to get your hands on it, through MORE or something, it's a good read
15:23 kados cool ... I'll put that on my list
15:23 kados if we were going to stick with the current MARC editor, I'd want to do it using the DOM better
15:23 owen It's a fast read, but it really helped me understand standards-compliant scripting better
15:24 kados neat
15:30 owen kados: how do you see access keys working for navigation in the MARC editor?
15:34 kados well ...
15:34 kados I'll have to give it some additional thought
15:34 kados but off the top of my head
15:35 kados F1 should provide context-sensitive help
15:35 kados and there should be some way to navigate from field to field and from tab to tab without using the mouse
15:35 kados I started using the tabindex property a bit
15:36 kados but some of that is broken in the latest rel_2_2
15:41 owen I suppose you could have a 'next tag' hotkey... the tab key works for next subfield
15:41 owen It's hard to manage tabindex when so much of the markup is generated by the script
17:04 kados thd: got a question
17:04 kados thd: did you mention at one point that there was a better way tto test if something was a fixed field than >10 ?
17:12 thd kados: yes I committed an example in
17:12 kados thd: could you briefly tell me what it is?
17:26 thd kados: if ($fieldNameOrNumber =~ m/^00/) { # you have a fixed field }
17:27 kados right ... thanks
17:28 thd kados: this works for fields with nonnumeric field names.
17:28 kados yep
17:28 kados I"m re-writing MARChtml2xml :(
17:29 thd kados:  =~ m/^00/ could be sustituted for < 10 throughout Koha with no problem.
17:30 kados agreed
17:30 kados don't actually need the m though
17:30 kados =~ /^00/ works fine
17:31 thd kados: I change regex systems so often I cannot keep the syntax straight too much of the time between Perl and whatever else :)
17:41 thd kados: check the code for fMARC8ToUTF8() in in rel_2_2.  That code is not perfect but it does work much better than the MARC::File::XML code if the record is MARC 8 and needs conversion to UTF-8.
09:43 thd_ kados: are you there?
10:08 kados thd: yes, I"m here
10:11 kados thd: here is an example:
10:11 kados 852 1  _aMOUN
10:11 kados       _bMOUN
10:11 kados       _h398.8
10:11 kados       _iA
10:11 kados       _p10002
10:11 kados       _9p14.44usd
10:11 kados 940    _bK-3
10:11 kados       _d05/15/06
10:11 kados       _sSchool Library Journal starred, September 2005
10:12 kados       _sBook Links (A.L.A.), May 2006
10:12 kados       _sPublisher's Weekly, August 2002
10:12 kados       _vFLR
10:12 kados 942    _aMOUN
10:12 kados thd: some vendor uses the above for holdings and local fields :-)
10:19 kados thd: can you explain to me how the call number is supposed to work?
10:19 kados thd: I've never quite understood call numbers
10:19 kados thd: in the 852 scheme above
10:19 kados thd: it looks like $h in the above is the complete call number
10:20 kados thd: I'm not looking for comprehensive coverage ... just the basics :-)
10:21 kados thd: I'm not sure the above vendor uses _standard_ 852
10:21 kados thd: maybe you can tell by looking at it
10:21 thd kados: so in that example the call number is 398.8 A
10:22 kados _a and _b are the 'holdingbranch' and 'homebranch', h and i are the dewey call number, _p looks like the barcode and _9 looks like the price
10:23 thd kados: $9 is obviously special and obviously used for the price
10:24 thd kados: you can check how I mapped them for the framework where I named the mapping explicitly in the extra verbose librarian label for 952
10:24 thd kados: I give the key based on standard fields and subfields
10:25 kados I propose this scheme:
10:25 kados $a => holdingbranch
10:25 kados $a => homebranch
10:25 kados $h => dewey
10:25 kados $i => subclass
10:25 kados $p => barcode
10:25 kados $9 => price
10:25 kados $9 => replacementprice
10:25 kados the main question being, will Koha handle the dewey and subclass correctly
10:26 thd kados: you have $9 used for two different things.
10:26 kados yep
10:26 kados they are the same on import in this case
10:26 kados it's a brand new library
10:27 thd kados: well then you will not have anything worse than Follet but the library will not always be new
10:28 kados right
10:28 kados can you think of a solution?
10:28 kados also, can you identify what some of the fields in the 940 are supposed to be?
10:29 kados $s looks like a series title
10:29 thd kados: add more subfields to the framework for 952 and hope that LC never changes 852.
10:29 kados $a looks like the homebranch again
10:29 kados thd: ?
10:29 kados thd: i don't understand why I need more subfields
10:29 thd s/952/852/
10:30 thd kados: well you certaily need one for items.itemnumber
10:31 thd s/certaily/certainly/
10:31 kados right
10:32 thd kados: having two uses of $9 that will become incompatible seems like something that may become a problem in future
10:33 kados yes, I'll remove one of them
10:33 thd kados: why would you remove rather than add?
10:34 kados thd: the data only has one price field
10:34 kados thd: understand that this library will not be editing any records
10:34 kados thd: they come fully-formed from the head of Follett :-)
10:34 thd kados: if they never edit their records in future then they have no problem
10:35 thd kados: I see now
10:35 kados my proposal is to create a generalized framework for Follet records
10:35 kados that will work for all follet libraries :-)
10:35 kados or libraries that get their records from follett :-)
10:35 thd kados: you should consider the other call number fields that may be used
10:36 kados which others?
10:36 kados (others that Follett may be using?)
10:36 thd kados: prefix sometimes and suffix hardly ever.
10:37 thd kados: $j $h $i $m if I remember
10:37 kados I don't think we have fields in Koha to handle those, right?
10:39 thd kados: Koha treats the call number as one field except when the call number sorting code is intended to break DDC class numbers 852 $h at the decimal point to sort the display.
10:40 kados I didn't realize we had sorting that was that advanced
10:41 thd kados: chris wrote it or at least designed it
10:41 kados I wonder if it works
10:41 kados I wonder if I added items.prefix and items.suffix whether it would 'just work'? :-)
10:41 thd kados: maybe it does not do anything but he explained at least the intention
10:43 thd kados: you would also need to add class number for $h and item or cutter number for $i
10:44 thd kados: then you would need to be certain that all the templates had access to the different parts
10:45 thd kados: From what I have seen you have much experience making additional elements available to the templates.
10:47 kados yes, that seems quite simple
10:47 kados so what's this about 'class number' and 'item or cutter number' for $i?
10:48 kados thd: I propose four new columns in items:
10:48 kados dcc_prefix
10:49 kados dcc_class_number
10:49 kados dcc_cutter_number
10:49 kados dcc_suffix
10:49 kados thd: would that be good enough?
10:49 kados thd: is there a resource I can read to learn what the practice of DCC is in libraries?
10:50 thd kados: so 050 $a, $055 $a, 080 $a, $082 $a, 084 $a, 090 $a, 092 $a, etc. are all class numbers.
10:50 kados DCC Class numbers?
10:51 kados I though 082 was LCC
10:51 kados what's a class number? ;-)
10:51 thd kados: 082 is for DDC (not DCC)
10:52 thd kados: as is 092 if I remember
10:52 thd kados: 055 sometimes in Canada
10:53 thd kados: 050 and 090 are for LCC with 055 sometimes in Canada.
10:54 thd kados: the class number is the base number that assigns the material to a place in the classification scheme
10:54 kados is it always subject-based?
10:55 thd kados: it is classification base which is not entirely the same concept as subject but a closely related concept
10:56 kados ah
10:56 thd kados: both classification and subject are concerned with the what the content is about.
10:57 kados here's a definition of a "classification scheme" according to itsmarc:
10:57 kados A logical system for the arrangement of knowledge. A fully developed classification scheme specifies categories of knowledge and provides the means to relate the categories to each other and to specify in the classification number all or the most important of the aspects and facets of a subject.
10:58 thd kados: classification schemes tend to be much much more hierarchical than subject schemes.  Subject thesauri are often more hierarchical than most people imagine but they can be completely flat if they are designed that way.
10:58 kados[…]ry_classification
10:58 kados wikipedia looks like a good reference for this
10:59 thd kados: a fully facetted subject thesaurus would seem to not be heirarchical.
11:00 thd kados: then the problem is that you still want a unique call number for all the material that you have in the collection.
11:01 thd kados: so 050 - 098 $b is for the item or cutter number.
11:02 thd kados: the cutter number nothing to do with the content of the material or its place in a classification scheme.
11:04 kados it only has to do with where it is on the shelf?
11:04 thd kados: The cutter number is mereley to give an assignement usually based on the author's last name according to a cutter table so that the class number in addition to the cutter number will give the material a unique place on the shelf
11:06 kados thd: it looks like some records don't have cutters, is that normal?
11:06 kados wait ... I'm perhaps wrong
11:06 kados i guess they all have cutters
11:06 thd kados: sometimes other information has to be added to a cutter number such as a date to distinguish different editions by the same author.
11:08 thd kados: prefix and suffix do not appear in 050 - 08X but can sometimes be in additional 09X subfields
11:10 thd prefix commonly designates a special location such as JUV for the juvenile section or FIC for the fiction collection.
11:12 kados thd: for purposes of quickly implementing something, could I substitute subclass for cutter?
11:13 thd kados: suffix is uncommon and used in special circumstances the most common of which may be something like 'index table' in the suffix for designating the special suffix location of something very specally within the REF prefix area.
11:14 thd kados: subclass was meant by chris to be the part of the decimal number in DDC after the decimal point.
11:14 kados ahh
11:14 kados that's unfortunate
11:15 thd kados: dewey was meant to be the part before the decimal number
11:15 kados and itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $m combined
11:15 thd kados: with one addition
11:15 kados what an unfortunate design
11:17 thd kados: that is very good designe so that you can change the treatment of some colection by only changing an individuated segment rather than having a regex fail on some with everything in one string.
11:17 thd s/colection/collection/
11:18 thd kados: there is an additonal consideration for the complete call number
11:19 thd kados: after the $i on the book label where $t is > 1 would be the copy number when there is more than one copy number abbreviated as c. $t
11:21 kados ?
11:21 kados meaning when there is more than one $t?
11:22 kados or just when $t is greater than 1?
11:22 kados (is $t always a single-digit number?)
11:23 thd kados: can certainly have more than 9 copies so not necessarily single digit
11:23 kados OK
11:23 kados hmmm
11:23 kados so then ...
11:23 kados itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $t $m combined
11:24 kados if $t is > 1
11:24 kados otherwise ...
11:24 thd kados: copy number is usually not shown for the first copy
11:24 kados itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $m combined
11:24 dewey i already had it that way, kados.
11:24 kados itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $t $m combined
11:24 kados hehe
11:24 kados dewey is confused even :-)
11:24 kados dewey?
11:24 dewey yes, kados?
11:24 kados dewey: are you confused?
11:24 dewey bugger all, i dunno, kados
11:25 kados hehe
11:25 thd :)
11:25 thd kados: I have code for all that which I sent you
11:26 thd kados: well my code had some bugs and excluded $k and $m
11:26 thd kados: also one bug used only one digit for the copy number
11:28 kados the code should be quite simple
11:28 kados provided I understand what must be done correctluy
11:28 kados correctly even
11:28 thd kados: the code I sent was designed for filling 952 from 050 - 09X.
11:28 thd kados: yes, very simple code
11:29 kados there is one small issue remaining
11:29 kados in the data, I see:
11:29 kados 050 00 _aPZ8.3
11:29 kados       _b.A5567 2005
11:29 kados 082 04 _a398.8
11:29 kados       _222
11:29 kados 082 00 _a[E]
11:29 kados       _222
11:29 kados then ...
11:29 kados 852 1  _aMOUN
11:29 kados       _bMOUN
11:29 kados       _h398.8
11:29 kados       _iA
11:29 kados       _p10002
11:29 kados       _9p14.44usd
11:29 thd kados: you need spaces between elements to avoid muching them into an inditinguishable mass
11:30 thd what kind of DDC number is the repeated 0982?
11:31 thd s/0982/082/
11:31 kados is there any scheme by which we can map LCC and DDC to the Koha tables, without changing the database and withhout losing data?
11:31 kados I don't know what kind it is
11:31 kados how can I tell?
11:33 thd kados: yes, my code only covered LCC but you just read the correct fields and read the indicators if they have been set correctly.
11:34 thd kados: my Z39.50 client has code for finding LCC, DDC, UDC, and NLM no matter where people try to hide the number.
11:34 kados heh
11:35 kados mainly, I'm interested in ensuring that all follett records will work out of the box
11:35 thd kados: In the real world indicators are often not set correctly
11:36 thd kados: at least too many small libraries or careless big ones will ignore indicators specifying the classification scheme
11:37 thd kados: are you only concerned with DDC follet records?
11:44 thd kados: you should use generalised names in the items table such as items.call_no_prefix instead of items.ddc_prefix as you had proposed.
11:46 kados only DDC follet records
11:47 kados what I don't understand
11:47 thd kados: the names of the columns should still be classification agnostic
11:47 kados is ... if the info is already in the 082, why would it be in 852 also?
11:47 kados that's confusing
11:48 thd kados: 082 only has what would appear in 852 $h $i
11:48 thd kados: as for all 050-08X
11:49 thd kados: 082 applies for all items
11:49 thd kados: 852 is item or copy specific
11:53 thd kados: it may be partly redundant but originally 050 and 082 were reserved exclusively for assingment by LC and other libraries had to use 09X and then had 852 for item specific numbers
11:53 kados I see
11:54 thd kados: when copy cataloguing 852 $h $i should be filled from 050 - 09X automatically
11:55 thd kados: then the library can adjust the number as needed for local practise which should also be automated
11:55 thd kados: there are several options for how cuttering is done for example

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