Time Nick Message 11:55 thd kados: there are several options for how cuttering is done for example 11:55 thd kados: then the library can adjust the number as needed for local practise which should also be automated 11:54 thd kados: when copy cataloguing 852 $h $i should be filled from 050 - 09X automatically 11:53 kados I see 11:53 thd kados: it may be partly redundant but originally 050 and 082 were reserved exclusively for assingment by LC and other libraries had to use 09X and then had 852 for item specific numbers 11:49 thd kados: 852 is item or copy specific 11:49 thd kados: 082 applies for all items 11:48 thd kados: as for all 050-08X 11:48 thd kados: 082 only has what would appear in 852 $h $i 11:47 kados that's confusing 11:47 kados is ... if the info is already in the 082, why would it be in 852 also? 11:47 thd kados: the names of the columns should still be classification agnostic 11:47 kados what I don't understand 11:46 kados only DDC follet records 11:44 thd kados: you should use generalised names in the items table such as items.call_no_prefix instead of items.ddc_prefix as you had proposed. 11:37 thd kados: are you only concerned with DDC follet records? 11:36 thd kados: at least too many small libraries or careless big ones will ignore indicators specifying the classification scheme 11:35 thd kados: In the real world indicators are often not set correctly 11:35 kados mainly, I'm interested in ensuring that all follett records will work out of the box 11:34 kados heh 11:34 thd kados: my Z39.50 client has code for finding LCC, DDC, UDC, and NLM no matter where people try to hide the number. 11:33 thd kados: yes, my code only covered LCC but you just read the correct fields and read the indicators if they have been set correctly. 11:31 kados how can I tell? 11:31 kados I don't know what kind it is 11:31 kados is there any scheme by which we can map LCC and DDC to the Koha tables, without changing the database and withhout losing data? 11:31 thd s/0982/082/ 11:30 thd what kind of DDC number is the repeated 0982? 11:29 thd kados: you need spaces between elements to avoid muching them into an inditinguishable mass 11:29 kados _9p14.44usd 11:29 kados _p10002 11:29 kados _iA 11:29 kados _h398.8 11:29 kados _bMOUN 11:29 kados 852 1 _aMOUN 11:29 kados then ... 11:29 kados _222 11:29 kados 082 00 _a[E] 11:29 kados _222 11:29 kados 082 04 _a398.8 11:29 kados _b.A5567 2005 11:29 kados 050 00 _aPZ8.3 11:29 kados in the data, I see: 11:29 kados there is one small issue remaining 11:28 thd kados: yes, very simple code 11:28 thd kados: the code I sent was designed for filling 952 from 050 - 09X. 11:28 kados correctly even 11:28 kados provided I understand what must be done correctluy 11:28 kados the code should be quite simple 11:26 thd kados: also one bug used only one digit for the copy number 11:26 thd kados: well my code had some bugs and excluded $k and $m 11:25 thd kados: I have code for all that which I sent you 11:25 thd :) 11:25 kados hehe 11:24 dewey bugger all, i dunno, kados 11:24 kados dewey: are you confused? 11:24 dewey yes, kados? 11:24 kados dewey? 11:24 kados dewey is confused even :-) 11:24 kados hehe 11:24 kados itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $t $m combined 11:24 dewey i already had it that way, kados. 11:24 kados itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $m combined 11:24 thd kados: copy number is usually not shown for the first copy 11:24 kados otherwise ... 11:24 kados if $t is > 1 11:23 kados itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $t $m combined 11:23 kados so then ... 11:23 kados hmmm 11:23 kados OK 11:23 thd kados: can certainly have more than 9 copies so not necessarily single digit 11:22 kados (is $t always a single-digit number?) 11:22 kados or just when $t is greater than 1? 11:21 kados meaning when there is more than one $t? 11:21 kados ? 11:19 thd kados: after the $i on the book label where $t is > 1 would be the copy number when there is more than one copy number abbreviated as c. $t 11:18 thd kados: there is an additonal consideration for the complete call number 11:17 thd s/colection/collection/ 11:17 thd kados: that is very good designe so that you can change the treatment of some colection by only changing an individuated segment rather than having a regex fail on some with everything in one string. 11:15 kados what an unfortunate design 11:15 thd kados: with one addition 11:15 kados and itemcallnumber is supposed to be 852 $k $h $i $m combined 11:15 thd kados: dewey was meant to be the part before the decimal number 11:14 kados that's unfortunate 11:14 kados ahh 11:14 thd kados: subclass was meant by chris to be the part of the decimal number in DDC after the decimal point. 11:13 thd kados: suffix is uncommon and used in special circumstances the most common of which may be something like 'index table' in the suffix for designating the special suffix location of something very specally within the REF prefix area. 11:12 kados thd: for purposes of quickly implementing something, could I substitute subclass for cutter? 11:10 thd prefix commonly designates a special location such as JUV for the juvenile section or FIC for the fiction collection. 11:08 thd kados: prefix and suffix do not appear in 050 - 08X but can sometimes be in additional 09X subfields 11:06 thd kados: sometimes other information has to be added to a cutter number such as a date to distinguish different editions by the same author. 11:06 kados i guess they all have cutters 11:06 kados wait ... I'm perhaps wrong 11:06 kados thd: it looks like some records don't have cutters, is that normal? 11:04 thd kados: The cutter number is mereley to give an assignement usually based on the author's last name according to a cutter table so that the class number in addition to the cutter number will give the material a unique place on the shelf 11:04 kados it only has to do with where it is on the shelf? 11:02 thd kados: the cutter number nothing to do with the content of the material or its place in a classification scheme. 11:01 thd kados: so 050 - 098 $b is for the item or cutter number. 11:00 thd kados: then the problem is that you still want a unique call number for all the material that you have in the collection. 10:59 thd kados: a fully facetted subject thesaurus would seem to not be heirarchical. 10:58 kados wikipedia looks like a good reference for this 10:58 kados http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_classification 10:58 thd kados: classification schemes tend to be much much more hierarchical than subject schemes. Subject thesauri are often more hierarchical than most people imagine but they can be completely flat if they are designed that way. 10:57 kados A logical system for the arrangement of knowledge. A fully developed classification scheme specifies categories of knowledge and provides the means to relate the categories to each other and to specify in the classification number all or the most important of the aspects and facets of a subject. 10:57 kados here's a definition of a "classification scheme" according to itsmarc: 10:56 thd kados: both classification and subject are concerned with the what the content is about. 10:56 kados ah 10:55 thd kados: it is classification base which is not entirely the same concept as subject but a closely related concept 10:54 kados is it always subject-based? 10:54 thd kados: the class number is the base number that assigns the material to a place in the classification scheme 10:53 thd kados: 050 and 090 are for LCC with 055 sometimes in Canada. 10:52 thd kados: 055 sometimes in Canada 10:52 thd kados: as is 092 if I remember 10:51 thd kados: 082 is for DDC (not DCC) 10:51 kados what's a class number? ;-) 10:51 kados I though 082 was LCC 10:50 kados DCC Class numbers? 10:50 thd kados: so 050 $a, $055 $a, 080 $a, $082 $a, 084 $a, 090 $a, 092 $a, etc. are all class numbers. 10:49 kados thd: is there a resource I can read to learn what the practice of DCC is in libraries? 10:49 kados thd: would that be good enough? 10:49 kados dcc_suffix 10:49 kados dcc_cutter_number 10:49 kados dcc_class_number 10:48 kados dcc_prefix 10:48 kados thd: I propose four new columns in items: 10:47 kados so what's this about 'class number' and 'item or cutter number' for $i? 10:47 kados yes, that seems quite simple 10:45 thd kados: From what I have seen you have much experience making additional elements available to the templates. 10:44 thd kados: then you would need to be certain that all the templates had access to the different parts 10:43 thd kados: you would also need to add class number for $h and item or cutter number for $i 10:41 thd kados: maybe it does not do anything but he explained at least the intention 10:41 kados I wonder if I added items.prefix and items.suffix whether it would 'just work'? :-) 10:41 kados I wonder if it works 10:41 thd kados: chris wrote it or at least designed it 10:40 kados I didn't realize we had sorting that was that advanced 10:39 thd kados: Koha treats the call number as one field except when the call number sorting code is intended to break DDC class numbers 852 $h at the decimal point to sort the display. 10:37 kados I don't think we have fields in Koha to handle those, right? 10:37 thd kados: $j $h $i $m if I remember 10:36 thd kados: prefix sometimes and suffix hardly ever. 10:36 kados (others that Follett may be using?) 10:36 kados which others? 10:35 thd kados: you should consider the other call number fields that may be used 10:35 kados or libraries that get their records from follett :-) 10:35 kados that will work for all follet libraries :-) 10:35 kados my proposal is to create a generalized framework for Follet records 10:35 thd kados: I see now 10:34 thd kados: if they never edit their records in future then they have no problem 10:34 kados thd: they come fully-formed from the head of Follett :-) 10:34 kados thd: understand that this library will not be editing any records 10:34 kados thd: the data only has one price field 10:33 thd kados: why would you remove rather than add? 10:33 kados yes, I'll remove one of them 10:32 thd kados: having two uses of $9 that will become incompatible seems like something that may become a problem in future 10:31 kados right 10:31 thd s/certaily/certainly/ 10:30 thd kados: well you certaily need one for items.itemnumber 10:29 thd s/952/852/ 10:29 kados thd: i don't understand why I need more subfields 10:29 kados thd: ? 10:29 kados $a looks like the homebranch again 10:29 thd kados: add more subfields to the framework for 952 and hope that LC never changes 852. 10:29 kados $s looks like a series title 10:28 kados also, can you identify what some of the fields in the 940 are supposed to be? 10:28 kados can you think of a solution? 10:28 kados right 10:27 thd kados: well then you will not have anything worse than Follet but the library will not always be new 10:26 kados it's a brand new library 10:26 kados they are the same on import in this case 10:26 kados yep 10:26 thd kados: you have $9 used for two different things. 10:25 kados the main question being, will Koha handle the dewey and subclass correctly 10:25 kados $9 => replacementprice 10:25 kados $9 => price 10:25 kados $p => barcode 10:25 kados $i => subclass 10:25 kados $h => dewey 10:25 kados $a => homebranch 10:25 kados $a => holdingbranch 10:25 kados I propose this scheme: 10:24 thd kados: I give the key based on standard fields and subfields 10:24 thd kados: you can check how I mapped them for the framework where I named the mapping explicitly in the extra verbose librarian label for 952 10:23 thd kados: $9 is obviously special and obviously used for the price 10:22 kados _a and _b are the 'holdingbranch' and 'homebranch', h and i are the dewey call number, _p looks like the barcode and _9 looks like the price 10:21 thd kados: so in that example the call number is 398.8 A 10:21 kados thd: maybe you can tell by looking at it 10:21 kados thd: I'm not sure the above vendor uses _standard_ 852 10:20 kados thd: I'm not looking for comprehensive coverage ... just the basics :-) 10:19 kados thd: it looks like $h in the above is the complete call number 10:19 kados thd: in the 852 scheme above 10:19 kados thd: I've never quite understood call numbers 10:19 kados thd: can you explain to me how the call number is supposed to work? 10:12 kados thd: some vendor uses the above for holdings and local fields :-) 10:12 kados 942 _aMOUN 10:12 kados _vFLR 10:12 kados _sPublisher's Weekly, August 2002 10:12 kados _sBook Links (A.L.A.), May 2006 10:11 kados _sSchool Library Journal starred, September 2005 10:11 kados _d05/15/06 10:11 kados 940 _bK-3 10:11 kados _9p14.44usd 10:11 kados _p10002 10:11 kados _iA 10:11 kados _h398.8 10:11 kados _bMOUN 10:11 kados 852 1 _aMOUN 10:11 kados thd: here is an example: 10:08 kados thd: yes, I"m here 09:43 thd_ kados: are you there? 17:41 thd kados: check the code for fMARC8ToUTF8() in bulkmarcimport.pl in rel_2_2. That code is not perfect but it does work much better than the MARC::File::XML code if the record is MARC 8 and needs conversion to UTF-8. 17:31 thd kados: I change regex systems so often I cannot keep the syntax straight too much of the time between Perl and whatever else :) 17:30 kados =~ /^00/ works fine 17:30 kados don't actually need the m though 17:30 kados agreed 17:29 thd kados: =~ m/^00/ could be sustituted for < 10 throughout Koha with no problem. 17:28 kados I"m re-writing MARChtml2xml :( 17:28 kados yep 17:28 thd kados: this works for fields with nonnumeric field names. 17:27 kados right ... thanks 17:26 thd kados: if ($fieldNameOrNumber =~ m/^00/) { # you have a fixed field } 17:12 kados thd: could you briefly tell me what it is? 17:12 thd kados: yes I committed an example in bulkmarcimport.pl 17:04 kados thd: did you mention at one point that there was a better way tto test if something was a fixed field than >10 ? 17:04 kados thd: got a question 15:41 owen It's hard to manage tabindex when so much of the markup is generated by the script 15:41 owen I suppose you could have a 'next tag' hotkey... the tab key works for next subfield 15:36 kados but some of that is broken in the latest rel_2_2 15:35 kados I started using the tabindex property a bit 15:35 kados and there should be some way to navigate from field to field and from tab to tab without using the mouse 15:35 kados F1 should provide context-sensitive help 15:34 kados but off the top of my head 15:34 kados I'll have to give it some additional thought 15:34 kados well ... 15:30 owen kados: how do you see access keys working for navigation in the MARC editor? 15:24 kados neat 15:23 owen It's a fast read, but it really helped me understand standards-compliant scripting better 15:23 kados if we were going to stick with the current MARC editor, I'd want to do it using the DOM better 15:23 kados cool ... I'll put that on my list 15:22 kados you should try to get your hands on it, through MORE or something, it's a good read 15:22 owen I've heard of it, but I've never looked at it before 15:21 kados and it's published 2006, so very up to date 15:21 kados it's got a fantastic overview of nearly everything related to web design 15:21 kados third edition 15:21 kados called 'Web Design in a Nutshell' 15:21 kados I just got a great book 15:21 kados hehe 15:20 owen Yeah, I've seen that. I'm so lax about testing for older versions of IE, though. 15:20 kados owen: in case you're interested :-) 15:20 kados owen: standalone versions of all the important IEs 15:20 kados owen: http://browsers.evolt.org/?ie/32bit/standalone 15:10 kados I've got a 5 button somewhere around here ... but never got around to getting proficient at it 15:10 kados course, you can still use a multi-button external mouse 15:10 kados so not really hard to use 15:10 kados and it's right where your thumb is 15:09 kados apple-click does the same thing 15:09 kados hehe 15:09 kados heck, I only have one mouse button now :-) 15:08 kados all that mousing :-) 14:52 owen Nice to know what I'm really using 14:51 kados so you're covered :-) 14:51 kados vi is a symlink to vim 14:45 thd colour syntax highlighting is a feature of vim not vi 14:45 kados or edit your vimrc file 14:45 kados :save or something 14:45 owen :) 14:45 kados you can save that somehow 14:44 owen Swank 14:44 kados :syntax on 14:44 kados in vi you may need to type: 14:39 kados let me know if you figure it out :-) 14:39 kados I've just never had time to figure out how :-) 14:39 kados I'm pretty sure you can mess with vi buffers too 14:38 kados to control that screen session I use C-a a X (where X is the command) 14:38 kados and start an instance of screen on that NPL box 14:37 kados using that one, I log into an NPL box 14:37 kados so my first and primary screen is on a liblime box 14:37 owen I just wondered if there wasn't something I didn't know about vi having multiple buffers or something 14:37 kados and for those instances, I practice threaded screening :-) 14:37 kados I manage several boxes on the same network 14:37 kados like NPL 14:37 kados in some cases 14:36 kados well ... 14:36 kados right 14:36 owen Yeah, I don't mean sessions 14:36 kados C-a c 14:36 kados I just open a new terminal within the screen session 14:36 kados no, not new screen _sessions_ 14:36 kados wait 14:36 owen New screen sessions? Doesn't that mean you might be logged into one machine 15 times? 14:35 kados yep 14:35 owen kados: when you're using screen, how do you manage editing more than one file at once? Do you open new sessions for each? 14:34 owen Just starting to play around with the layout 14:34 owen http://66.213.78.101:8082/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl 14:31 kados If set, the MARC editor won't show you tag/subfields description 14:31 kados yea, here it is: advancedMARCEditor 14:30 kados there used to be a way to turn off the labels altogether 14:29 kados well ... there's another one too 14:29 kados right 14:29 kados ahh 14:29 owen I was meaning to be testing hide_marc 14:29 owen Sorry--I was thinking I was looking at something else. 14:28 kados ie, two 650s or something? 14:28 kados and you've got a record that has repeated fields? 14:28 owen Yes 14:28 kados on 101? 14:27 owen Yes 14:27 kados working with rel_2_2 and NPL's data? 14:27 kados ahh 14:27 owen I just mean when I switch the two options 14:27 kados owen: it should have two values: standard | economical 14:27 kados owen: it's not an on/off preference 14:25 owen I see a reference to LabelMARCView in opac-MARCdetail.pl, but when I turn the preference on and off I don't see any difference in either the npl or css template 14:23 kados heh 14:20 owen How nice to have my laptop reboot itself without warning. 14:12 kados yep 14:12 thd of web browsers 14:12 thd kados: far too much JavaScript in the world breaks the basic navigation functions 14:11 kados this is just nuts 14:11 kados your repeated 650 jumps into the 651!! 14:11 kados then go back 14:11 kados such that if you save something 14:11 kados the back button is broken too 14:11 kados wow 14:10 thd s/sound/seems/ 14:10 thd s/soud/seems/ 14:10 thd kados: that sound like most of the easy errors form yanking and pasting similar lines without correcting everything in the new location after that. 14:09 kados thd: of course ... just wondering if it was intentional 14:08 thd kados: I told you that there were bound to be mistakes in the bibligraphic framework that large 14:08 kados also lost our 'tab between fields' feature 14:05 kados we've completely reverted 14:05 kados sheesh 14:05 kados I think we're also back to saving blank subfields again 14:04 kados thd: is there a stray 100$9 right above 600$a in your MARC Bibliographic framework? 14:03 kados thd: good point 13:58 thd kados: maybe it made the problem harder to identify if the MARC display did not distinguish between what was correct and what was incorrect on his choice of preferences. 13:57 kados thd: I certainly hope not 13:56 thd kados: was that the behaviour he was attempting to emulate as his user's have preferred to see MARC records displayed in that less verbose manner? :) 13:56 kados owen: right 13:56 owen But that doesn't have anything to do with the problem you're talking about now 13:56 kados owen: thanks 13:55 owen I just committed a small change to opac-MARCdetail.tmpl that prevents the display from running together like you pointed out 13:55 kados thd: so 650$a$b$c 650$a$b$c becomes 650$a$a$b$b$c$c!! 13:54 kados thd: they are saved under the same field 13:54 thd kados: how are repeated fields saved if not separately? 13:49 kados paul's changes have broken the ability for the system to save repeated fields seperately 13:48 kados this problem goes deeper than just display though 13:48 kados owen: that is, it's supposed to 13:48 kados owen: an the labelmarcview should affect the OPAC as well 13:47 kados owen: a change you just found? 13:47 kados owen: what fixes the problem? 13:43 owen I don't think the LabelMarcView pref affects the OPAC 13:42 owen That fixes the problem with the subjects display 13:38 kados owen: I wonder if that is related to my problem 13:37 owen Man, I'm not keeping up with template updates like I thought I was 13:36 owen http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl?user=&channel=&action=&text=&user-ddl=&channel-ddl=&action-ddl=&startdate=yesterday&enddate=now&saveas=&search=Search 13:35 thd :) 13:35 kados thd: man irssi may be of some help 13:35 kados thd: so I can't recall how exactly it works :) 13:35 kados thd: you have to set them up, it's a complicated process that I've only done once :-) 13:34 thd kados: how do I activate the logs or are they on by default? 13:34 kados thd: I don't scroll back, I use logs 13:33 kados thd: now, repeated fields aren't saved as repeated fields :( 13:33 thd s/bak/back/ 13:33 thd kados: how do i scroll bak this IRC client? 13:33 kados thd: i found another bug in the MARC editor 13:33 kados thd: congratulations 13:33 thd kados: I upgrading now 13:32 kados holy #$%& 13:32 kados that's how things are being _saved_ now !!! 13:32 kados it's worse than I feared 13:32 kados wait a second 13:29 owen Yes 13:28 kados does that make sense? 13:28 kados but on SMFPL it's set to 'standard' but displaying as 'economical' :( 13:28 kados 650 $asubject $bsubfieldb $asubject 2 $bsubfieldb 2 13:27 kados and if it was set to 'economical' you'd have: 13:27 kados 650 $asubject 2 $bsubfieldb 2 13:27 kados 650 $asubject $bsubfieldb 13:27 kados you'd have: 13:27 kados it used to be that if LabelMARCView was set to 'standard' 13:27 kados well ... 13:24 owen What do you mean we lost it? 13:24 kados this must be due to paul's new changes :( 13:22 kados owen: LabelMARCView is the name of the syspref 13:22 kados owen: there are actually two 650s there 13:22 kados owen: http://opac.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-MARCdetail.pl?bib=141126 13:21 kados owen: we seem to have lost the 'economical' vs 'standard' display in the MARC view 13:20 kados so I'm not sure paul would be thrilled about having that in rel_2_2 13:20 kados unfortunately, it would reqire some additional coding 13:18 kados lemme check the script 13:18 kados that should be possible 13:17 kados right 13:17 owen I've wished for ages that we could display the actual title of the record being edited instead of just the 'edit marc record' heading 13:16 owen Certainly 13:15 kados owen: i wonder if that could be made teeny-tiny and scooted up to the upper-right hand side of the page parallel to the 'Xataloging Home | Add MARC, etc' links 13:15 kados owen: also, quite a lot of the top of the page is currently occupied by the 'Edit MARC Record with Framework' line 13:14 kados owen: that would free up some room 13:14 kados owen: maybe, just for the sake of layout, we can remove the left-hand navbar from that screen 13:13 kados maybe not 13:13 owen an 'e' ? That's new to me. 13:13 kados or something :-) 13:13 kados if you pass 'e' along it passes some environment vars? 13:12 kados owen: and isn't there an 'e' in js that has some kind of sense of context? 13:12 owen Anyway, we can lay out the feature list and see what we can do with it 13:12 kados owen: it can find where the cursor is currently positioned 13:12 kados toops 13:12 kados thd: it can find where the cursor is 13:12 owen How does it know where you are on the page? 13:11 owen The first snag that comes to mind is how you handle context--how does the system know which field you want to duplicate? 13:11 kados i think the scrolling bit might be the most challanging 13:10 kados same goes for re-ordering the subfields 13:10 owen Getting into some javascript territory I'm not familiar with, but we can work on it 13:10 kados for instance, it should be possible to duplicate a subfield with a simple keystroke combination 13:09 kados (thanks) 13:09 kados owen: also, i think we need a few new hotkeys for rapid switching between sections 13:09 kados owen: which seems reasonable to me :-) 13:08 kados owen: one of the things that the catalogers told me was that they want 'everything on the page' with no scrolling 13:08 kados owen: I have some ideas for imporving the user's experience in the npl templates 13:08 kados owen: yea ... I was gonna talk briefly about the MARC editor 13:07 owen kados: I'm back. You rang? 13:07 thd kados: yes that is what I thought 13:07 kados thd: but first we need to resolve all these conflicts 13:07 kados thd: you can re-install it later 13:06 kados apt-get remove --purge navigator-smotif-477 13:06 kados thd: to fix this, you need to go: 13:06 thd kados: is this my penalty for trying to have navigator-smotif-477 ? 13:05 kados ok 13:05 thd E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) 13:05 thd Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_1%3a7.0.22_i386.deb 13:04 thd dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x11-common_1%3a7.0.22_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/X11R6/bin', which is also in package navigator-smotif-477 13:04 thd Unpacking replacement x11-common ... 13:04 thd Preparing to replace x11-common 6.8.2.dfsg.1-11 (using .../x11-common_1%3a7.0.22_i386.deb) ... 13:04 thd (Reading database ... 170488 files and directories currently installed.) 13:04 thd kados: after pressing enter for the default options to configure xserver-xorg I have the following lines 12:57 kados there are definitely times when you want more than one, but not when you've started learning screen :-) 12:56 thd kados: I realise that I only want one because the advantages of having every application in a separate screen session are small. 12:55 kados thd: if you type 'screen -list' it will report how many you're running 12:55 kados thd: you only want to run one screen session at a time 12:54 kados which is not what you want 12:54 kados it will disconnect you from the screen session 12:54 kados right, that won't work 12:54 kados C-a c 12:54 thd kados: that has been my problem I tried to use it before what I had hoped was another tab 12:54 kados if you need a new tab type 12:54 kados now you're in your screen session 12:54 kados screen -r 12:53 kados thd: at the beginning of the day (as early as 4am), you begin work ... log in and issue: 12:53 kados thd: you only use C-a d when you are done for the day 12:53 thd kados: do I invoke C-a c after C-a d or directly from the application that I am already using? 12:52 kados (though you can set them up to, but that's an advanced topic) 12:52 kados of course, they don't really appear as tabs 12:52 kados you can rename the tab with C-a A 12:51 kados yes, that creates a new tab 12:51 thd C-a c is the answer? 12:51 kados thus, screen is called a 'terminal multiplexor' :-) 12:51 kados each 'tab' is it's own terminal 12:51 kados right 12:51 thd kados: yes that is the problem, I am always opening a new window instead of a new tab or at least think that I am 12:51 kados thd: does that make better sense? 12:51 kados thd: you can get a list of tabs with C-a " 12:50 kados thd: you can create a new tab with C-a c 12:50 kados thd: when you start screen you have one tab 12:50 kados thd: think of it as tabbed browsing 12:50 thd kados: after I leave a screen terminal with C-a d how do I start a new process in such a way that I can have the new process under the control of the same screen process? 12:50 kados I use that to help organize the menu that comes up with C-a " 12:49 kados you can re-name a given terminal with C-a A 12:49 kados and try not to confuse yourself by creating threaded screens :-) 12:49 kados to pull up a menu 12:48 kados you can always bail yourself out with C-a " 12:48 kados one thing to remember 12:48 kados perhaps 12:48 kados hehe 12:47 thd kados: there is something fundamental that I am missing about using screen 12:36 kados thd: did it work? 12:27 kados :0( 12:27 kados ) 12:27 kados (where 'C-' represents the 'control key' 12:27 kados C-a C-] 12:27 kados to paste you go: 12:27 kados well ... that's to copy 12:27 kados C-a C[ 12:27 kados thd: to paste in screen you go: 12:26 kados thd: can you paste in the error you're getting when you run 'apt-get -f install'? 12:26 kados thd: sorry, had a phone call 12:26 kados thd: yes 12:25 thd kados: am I still connected? 12:23 thd kados: otherwise I will be reporting the editor as riddled with bugs again because nothing works in lynx. 12:22 thd ? 12:22 thd kados: do you have any more clever ideas about how to restore my X-windows server so that I can be a perfect speller and test these bugs for myself again. 12:19 thd kados: there is plenty of time to fix that in future along with adding fields and subfields which are not set to appear by default 12:17 thd s/coreect/correct/ 12:17 thd kados: the second worst problem when everything was working was the nuissance of pushing subfields around with arrows instead of inserting them at aparticular point from a selection list or having them in the coreect order by default 12:15 kados owen-away: you around? 12:15 kados thd: seems to be working well 12:15 kados thd: I just tested duplicating a tag 12:15 kados right 12:14 thd kados: well that avoids the worst problem when everything was working that you lost your place in the record if you duplicated a tag because there ws no anchor follolwed for the refresh 12:13 kados I suspect that this is now fixed since duplicated tags nolonger require a page refresh 12:13 kados record is reloaded. " 12:13 thd s/yrs/years/ 12:13 kados duplicate a repeatable field. The 'a' will be lost from 000/09 once the 12:13 kados 'a' from leader position 09. That is an easily reproducible if you simply 12:13 kados "the record editor was removing the 12:13 kados here is your email: 12:12 thd kados: I would not even think of using an MS windows system on anything other than the command line either but I have not done that for some yers 12:11 thd kados: yes the world is much faster on the command line and I did my old job on the command line 12:11 kados thd: the sky is the limit :-) 12:11 kados thd: so now you've mastered the command-line utilities :-) 12:09 kados hi