IRC log for #koha, 2013-05-30

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:22 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #126: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_3.10.x/126/
00:22 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 10083 [3.10.x] In Transit string doesn't get translated in the staff interface
00:22 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10083 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , In Transit string doesn't get translated in the staff interface
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00:58 pug Hi there
00:58 wahanui hola, pug
00:58 pug Hi wahanui
00:59 wahanui salut, pug
00:59 pug I needed to test a multisite deployment of koha
01:01 pug Each deplyment with its separate DB and separate perl modules (C4, Intranet, Opac etc) -- on the same server
01:02 pug anyone knows any helpful post? -- shall I just groundup build from git repos with separate document root folders?
01:02 pug what would you say whanui?
01:05 druthb wahanui is a bot.  :P
01:05 pug :)
01:05 druthb wahanui: druthb?
01:05 wahanui Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
01:05 * druthb nods
01:05 druthb botsnack cookie
01:06 druthb wahanui: botsnack cookie
01:06 wahanui :)
01:06 druthb pug, I've done what you're thinking of doing, and it's not hard; just download the git repo into different users' directories, and go to it.  But packages might be an easier way for you.
01:06 druthb wahanui: packages?
01:06 wahanui packages is at
01:07 druthb There's some help there on packages; it's *super* easy
01:07 jcamins pug: why would you want to have completely separate codebases?
01:08 * dcook would assume for localized customizations?
01:09 dcook Which, now that I think about it, isn't (easily) possible with packages?
01:09 pug druthb, okay - I think ill go for it and try out
01:09 jcamins dcook: no, but if you're doing local customizations on that scale, you're doing it wrong.
01:09 pug jcamins, dcook  - yeah , for localized customizations
01:09 druthb if you want a lot of localized customizations (which is chaos and madness!), then you can't use packages easily, if at all.  But...better not to.
01:09 jcamins druthb: sure you can.
01:09 jcamins I do it all the time.
01:10 druthb Monkeying with templates?
01:10 jcamins Yeah.
01:10 jcamins And everything else.
01:10 wahanui well, everything else is just extras
01:10 jcamins wahanui: not when it involves substantial changes to C4::*
01:10 wahanui jcamins: huh?
01:10 dcook hehe
01:10 jcamins If you have small libraries, you use containers.
01:11 druthb :P
01:11 jcamins If you have large libraries, they shouldn't be on the same server.
01:11 pug I want to be able to integrate the customizations with upgarded versions - how can you possibly do that peacefully while using packages?
01:11 jcamins pug: by rolling your own packages.
01:11 dcook Or by submitting your customizations to the community
01:11 dcook And hoping they all get in ;)
01:11 jcamins Basically instead of resolving merge conflicts in production (ohgodohgodohgoditsbrokennowwhatdidido!), you resolve them on your staging server, then deploy in an atomic update.
01:12 pug unfortunately they arent that relevant - for all to get on them
01:12 rangi we role our own packages
01:12 * jcamins rolls his own packages.
01:12 rangi git for development, packages for production
01:12 rangi you shouldnt be EVER developing or changing anything apart from config on a live server
01:12 pug I havent rolled my package before - but i think then thats something I must consider
01:12 * dcook nods
01:12 rangi so why have a full git clone there with all the security risks that entails
01:13 dcook It's what I'm looking at doing soon, pug
01:13 jcamins Hotfixes are easy to deploy with packages, too.
01:13 jcamins Unlike with git.
01:13 rangi pug: are you in the US?
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01:13 pug unfrotunately not in the US!
01:13 dcook jcamins: Good point about the large libraries. As for the small ones, I'm intrigued. What did you mean by containers?
01:13 jcamins pug: that's a good thing.
01:13 * dcook nods
01:13 pug exactly, what did you mean by containers?
01:13 jcamins I've just been reading about contract law under common law.
01:13 * jcamins shudders.
01:14 dcook As much as I adore our Americans here ;)
01:14 pug jcamins, containers?
01:14 jcamins Did you know that if you don't get promised a pension before you start, you are not guaranteed a pension in the US (if your employer starts offering one), but you are in France?
01:14 jcamins Anyway, I use lxc.
01:15 jcamins Well, I do that when I can't get away with upstreaming or mainstreaming.
01:16 jcamins I sort of petered out with documentation and generalization at some point, so the best documentation is probably this:[…]c832;hb=HEAD#l668
01:16 dcook jcamins: Can't say it surprises me. Did you know, in Canada, contracts are valid even if you're nearly black out drunk? Why you have 24-48 hours to go to the other party and ask them to void it, they're under no legal obligation to do so. In order to prove that you were coerced into signing, you need to have solid eyewitness testimony that somehow "proves" that they essentially took your blacked out hand and made you sign the paper
01:16 dcook In other words, never sign anything under the influence of anything, because it's all perfectly legal. No one has won on that defense in about 100 years.
01:17 jcamins I also learned that all those scammy-sounding "we'll help you pay only a portion of what you owe" things are not legally enforceable.
01:17 dcook The implications of having fiduciary obligations to former employers can also be pretty interesting
01:18 dcook Contract law is rather fascinating
01:18 pug jcamins: alright, ill look into lxc and creating packages
01:18 jcamins It is, actually.
01:18 jcamins But lawyers are incapable of writing well. :(
01:18 dcook But yes, pug, the best advice that cait ever gave me was: "Local customizations? Just don't do them."
01:18 pug is it really a bad idea to use git based deployment for production?
01:19 jcamins pug: YES!!!!!
01:19 jcamins That is one of the worst Koha-related ideas I can think of.
01:19 jcamins Right after using a livecd you don't understand. </poke>
01:20 pug can you pen a few reasons why its a bad idea?
01:20 jcamins Yeah.
01:20 jcamins Security is bad.
01:20 jcamins Anyone can access any executable file, even if it's not safe.
01:21 pug Ok .. I see thats a big issue then
01:21 * jcamins thinks so.
01:21 pug And Besides security?
01:21 jcamins It makes it psychologically too easy to "just do a little tweak."
01:22 jcamins And the result is invariably (in my experience) lots of untested "little tweaks" going in.
01:22 pug I see your point!
01:23 pug jcamins: And that seems enough to call off git on production -- thanks a lot
01:24 jcamins Yay!
01:24 jcamins Glad I could help dissuade you.
01:24 * jcamins goes to eat dinner.
01:24 * dcook now ponders what jcamins has on the menu tonight...damned timezones
01:24 pug Im off too - bye!
01:24 dcook pug: Just curious, what situation are you in?
01:26 pug Im at a point where Im trying template customizations - customizations of say a few different types
01:26 dcook Which templates?
01:27 dcook You might find it easier to use customized XSLTs for the search results and detail pages
01:27 dcook Way easier than managing separate code bases
01:27 pug circulation, main etc
01:27 dcook There are system preferences for changing the content in main
01:27 dcook As for might have me there
01:28 dcook Also remember that there are system preferences for userCSS and userJS
01:28 dcook If it's just template changes, those can do a lot
01:29 pug Im 'taking things off' the templates -- i.e. the UI
01:29 pug not just the CSS stuff
01:29 dcook I'm not sure I follow...
01:29 dcook And really - taking things off is much easier than putting them on ;)
01:29 pug Yeah it is -- quite easy
01:29 dcook What sorts of things are you taking off?
01:30 pug e.g. too many options on the checkout
01:30 dcook (I meant through config rather than code-level changes)
01:30 dcook Such as?
01:30 * dcook is curoius
01:30 pug few unrequired columns .. etc
01:30 dcook curious too
01:31 pug the circ-menu has too many buttons
01:32 pug as an example
01:32 pug when I say ' too many' .. its considering a certain audience in mind
01:33 pug circ-toolbar (not circ-menu)
01:33 dcook It sounds like the sort of things that you could do with CSS and JS, but all the power to you. Good luck!
01:33 pug thanks! --
01:34 pug but do you have a suggestions as to how can I make the changes now - and keep up with the upgrades?
01:35 pug Im currently doing the changes off a branch of a specific version of git
01:36 pug (Im doing this for schools in India - the librarian's esp. the staff's ability is quite weak wrt dealing with lot of text/buttons on the screen)
01:38 pug dcook? there?
01:38 dcook Ish. I'm working on a project :p
01:39 dcook I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying.
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01:40 * dac pokes dcook
01:41 pug Im just saying - I want to make loads of changes to the templates in say ver 3.08.12 and merge them to later versions .. whats the most effective way of doing this AND not using git in production ?
01:41 dcook That's better
01:41 dcook Hmm?
01:41 cjh pug: you can use git for developement and then build packages to deploy for production
01:41 dcook That's probably your best bet
01:42 cjh that way you get all the nifty stuff from git and all the stability of packages.
01:42 dcook You have to realize though...the more changes you make...the more work you're making for yourself in the future
01:42 pug k - so basically ill have to build my own packages
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01:43 pug I understand the issue with too many changes - but I actually do not see any option to that --
01:43 cjh ./debian/build-git-snapshot if you are targetting debian
01:43 cjh ideally you want to upstream as much as possible, so you can avoid having to maintain lots of local code.
01:43 pug Im on ubuntu
01:44 pug cjh .. is that a git command to build a package for debian?
01:45 cjh you can install debian packages on ubuntu, it isnt a git command it is a script inside the koha git repository.
01:45 pug[…]uild-git-snapshot
01:45 pug that one, right?
01:45 cjh yes.
01:46 pug (just trying to be sure! )
01:46 cjh no problem :)
01:46 rangi hmm
01:46 pug I think this is terrific help!
01:46 jcamins pug: you should clone the official git repo, though.
01:46 rangi is there a reason you arent using the official repo?
01:46 pug I am using the official repo
01:46 jcamins Or one of the mirrors that is automatically synced.
01:46 cjh oohh oops, I should have pointed that out.
01:47 cjh[…]f6d083b7a;hb=HEAD
01:47 jcamins pug: and, as for your question about making changes in 3.8.12 and then merging them into later versions, it's going to be horrible no matter what.
01:47 jcamins But no worse when using packages than when using git.
01:47 pug I see
01:47 jcamins And, actually, better, if some of the changes are in common.
01:48 jcamins Because git does this thing I don't understand where it manages to automatically resolve more conflicts sometimes in those cases.
01:49 pug jcamins - oh it does?!
01:49 jcamins Sometimes.
01:49 jcamins As I said, I don't understand it.
01:49 pug jcamins - but if I have to make changes to the templates -- I dont see another options
01:49 jcamins Right.
01:49 jcamins If you are making changes, you are making changes.
01:49 jcamins So it's going to be unpleasant.
01:49 jcamins That's just a fact of life.
01:50 jcamins Now you are presented with the task of mitigating that unpleasantness as much as possible, and the way to mitigate it is with packages.
01:50 jcamins If you use the script that I linked to earlier, it can make things a lot more pleasant.
01:50 pug so my best bet is .. 1. make changes in a git stable version 2. make my own package for production 3. merge the changes painfully with the next stable version
01:51 pug Does that roughly sum it up?
01:51 cjh and keep your changes as simple and as close to upstream as possible
01:51 jcamins Right.
01:51 jcamins And any changes that you could make general-purpose, do so, and submit to Koha.
01:51 cjh the less work you have to do in the future, the better.
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01:51 * dcook nods
01:51 cjh so if you can make your changes upstreamable, then it is a lot easier.
01:51 dcook I still have a good hundred changes from an old version of Koha that I need to work on merging...
01:51 rangi and if you are hiding buttons/content/tables etc
01:51 rangi use css and/or jquery
01:51 dcook Well, merging/sending upstream
01:52 rangi in the sysprefs to do it, rather than changing templates
01:52 rangi because those will survive upgrades
01:52 dcook There are quite a few IDs and classes to hook onto for that
01:52 jcamins Right, that can't be repeated enough.
01:53 pug rangi -- okay -- thats helpful too -- ill look into that approach - avoided, since I hadnt worked on js earlier - but I guess Ill have to catchup with it
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01:53 jcamins pug: you can learn javascript in way less time than it will take to learn how to maintain multiple custom forks.
01:54 cjh heh
01:55 * jcamins can prove this...
01:55 pug yeah  - sounds like it , from what I am hearing
01:55 jcamins dcook: when you first started, you didn't know much about customizing Koha with JS and CSS, did you?
01:56 dcook Mmm, no, but 99% of the customizations pre-date me ;)
01:56 jcamins Sure, but you've successfully done some customizations, I think.
01:56 dcook Which makes it even more fun trying to figure out what they do before merging into newer versions of Koha...
01:57 dcook Yep yep
01:57 jcamins So, follow-up question: do you know how to maintain a customized fork without tearing your hair out?
01:57 dcook hehe
01:57 dcook Nope
01:58 dcook CSS is incredibly simple (although cross-browser CSS can sometimes be a pain). Jquery also makes using Javascript 10x easier.
01:58 jcamins QED :)
01:58 dcook pug: Lots of useful help out there on Jquery's website, stackoverflow, etc.
01:58 cjh and jquery updates are far easier to maintain, the underlying classes/ids change far less than the code (somewhere between never and rarely)
01:59 cjh that wasnt english... close enough.
01:59 pug cjh - you answered my question before I would have asked :)
02:00 eythian pug: it might be good for you to add CSS ids to the things you want to hide, and then use CSS/jquery to manipulate them
02:00 eythian adding the ids/classes is upstreamable.
02:00 cjh and then you can upstream the css ids :)
02:00 cjh drats, too slow.
02:00 dcook :D
02:01 dcook Not to mention the fact that it's just plain useful for others in the future as well
02:01 dcook So you're doing others a favour ;)
02:01 pug that sounds like a easy way to do it, though - wouldnt work well?
02:01 eythian works fine, that's usually how we do it, and it saves on template modifications
02:01 eythian which are always painful to deal with
02:02 jcamins That's definitely the way to do it. It would work great. :)
02:02 pug cool - i think i get it
02:02 cjh it also depends on what kind of changes you are making, if it is only adding/removing from a page then it is perfect.
02:02 pug so I was doing it the un-smart way -- creating blocks in templates , and including them or not based on IFs
02:02 jcamins pug: ouch, no, you don't want to do that.
02:03 pug jcamins -- hmm  - I see now
02:04 pug so I use css ids, classes .. show or hide, ids and classes .. incase I wish to use some conditions use js .. right?!
02:05 jcamins Yup.
02:05 jcamins And you can do some pretty impressive things with js.
02:05 jcamins jquery library?
02:05 wahanui somebody said jquery library was found at[…]ki/JQuery_Library
02:06 pug Did you guys collectively just save my life?!
02:06 pug :)
02:06 jcamins Probably, yeah.
02:08 pug jcamins - :) .. but the 'make your own debian package' for my Ubuntu production enviro still stays , right?
02:08 jcamins Yes.
02:08 jcamins Unless you manage to avoid any code customizations at all, in which case, no need to bother.
02:09 pug Im sure some conditions or the other would come in .. that sounds quite expected as of now
02:10 pug Alright - ill go back - do the homework on the new plan and come back
02:10 pug ciao guys?
02:10 jcamins What kind of library, BTW?
02:12 pug for small schools - in India  - that arent using anything - and the staff under the librarian wouldnt want to read LOT of words on the screen
02:19 pug alright guys - thanks a ton - ttys!
02:19 pug bye!
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02:46 eythian the master package should now be directly installable on wheezy and squeeze.
02:46 * eythian goes to double check this
02:47 dcook :D
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03:31 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:31 dcook hey ya mtompset
03:33 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
03:33 mtompset I'm curious. Do we have any authentication methods working in koha that don't require the user to be in the borrowers table?
03:39 wizzyrea ldap can work that way I think - eythian might know
03:39 eythian no
03:39 wizzyrea or not
03:39 eythian well, when you first log in, it will put the borrower into the borrowers table
03:39 eythian might be that's what you mean
03:39 wizzyrea what am I thinking of then
03:39 wizzyrea or not storing the passwords maybe
03:39 eythian wizzyrea: I'm not sure :)
03:39 wizzyrea probably that
03:39 wahanui probably that is an issue with missing dependencies.
03:39 eythian yeah, could be that
03:40 mtompset so with ldap, the first time you log in, it adds the user?
03:40 eythian yeah
03:40 eythian otherwise tracking user info isn't really possible
03:41 eythian wahanui: seen tcohen
03:41 wahanui tcohen was last seen on #koha 11 hours, 51 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying: thanks oleonard  [Wed May 29 15:50:13 2013]
03:42 wizzyrea yeah, how would you know if things were issued if you didn't have users?
03:42 eythian @later tell tcohen Bug 10367 is ready for 3.12, probably a good one to get in soon.
03:42 huginn` eythian: The operation succeeded.
03:43 mtompset Okay... at least I know where I have to head with my testing and coding.
03:44 mtompset I've got code now that using a simplesamlphp set up on the same server redirects to simplesamlphp, which does the authentication, and then it calls a backchannel (which I need to finish writing and testing) that makes the user logged in, and then redirects to the page the user sees.
03:45 mtompset And this backchannel stuff is a pain, because of the user entry needs to be in borrowers constraint.
03:46 mtompset I guess I'll look at the ldap log in method more closely now.
03:46 mtompset I was looking at the persona code. I like it.
03:46 eythian basically it's just that if the user doesn't exist, it adds it.
03:46 eythian I haven't seen the persona code. I should have a look.
03:47 mtompset I like the /opac/svc/login :)
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03:54 mtompset Well, I should sleep.
03:55 mtompset Have a greet day (24 hour period), lurkers -- wizzyrea eythian dcook. :)
03:55 eythian later
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06:37 christophe_c joined #koha
06:37 christophe_c hello #koha
06:38 reiveune joined #koha
06:38 reiveune hello
06:39 dcook morning/evening :)
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06:49 samueld hi everybody :-)
06:49 jajm hello
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06:58 alex_a hello
07:06 dcook salut alex_a :)
07:06 alex_a salut dcook !
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07:15 gaetan_B hello
07:17 alex_a bonjour gaetan_B
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07:19 alex_a bonjout cait :)
07:19 cait hi alex_a :)
07:19 alex_a s/t/r/
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07:31 drojf good morning #koha
07:33 cait hi drojf :)
07:34 drojf hi cait :)
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07:39 dcook All right time to head home and spend time with loved ones!
07:39 dcook Night everyone
07:40 cait hm now he was gone fast
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07:59 mtj interesting ->[…]r-free-javascript
08:00 mtj[…]ascript-trap.html
08:55 rangi Joubu: merged
08:58 cait Joubu++ rangi++ :)
09:02 Joubu rangi++ :)
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09:11 cait Joubu: nice idea too :)
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10:42 cait Joubu++ again for Qa :)
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12:23 oleonard Hi #koha
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12:39 tcohen_ morning #koha
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12:49 tcohen do plugins work within a  package install?
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13:14 tcohen kohacon13?
13:14 wahanui kohacon13 is[…]KohaCon13_Summary
13:14 tcohen cait: where's the registration form?
13:14 wahanui rumour has it the registration form is online :)
13:15 tcohen jcamins?
13:15 wahanui i think jcamins is a spoilsport
13:16 druthb tcohen?
13:16 wahanui tcohen is 120
13:16 druthb !
13:16 druthb wahanui:  no, tcohen is awesome^2!
13:16 wahanui ...but tcohen is 120...
13:17 tcohen wahanui: tcohen is 122
13:17 wahanui ...but tcohen is 120...
13:17 tcohen wahanui: forget tcohen is 120
13:17 wahanui tcohen, I didn't have anything matching tcohen is 120
13:17 oleonard wahanui: forget tcohen
13:17 wahanui oleonard: I forgot tcohen
13:17 tcohen hmm
13:17 tcohen wahanui: tcohen is 122
13:17 wahanui OK, tcohen.
13:17 * druthb chuckles.
13:17 druthb wahanui:  druthb?
13:17 wahanui Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
13:18 druthb :)
13:18 tcohen i need to register for kohacon
13:19 druthb[…]n13/registration/
13:19 druthb you're gonna be there, tcohen?
13:20 tcohen got my visa yesterday
13:20 tcohen my boss said he'll try to pay for it
13:20 druthb woo hoo!  One more reason for me to be glad I'm going.
13:20 tcohen are people sharing rooms?
13:21 tcohen are there available rooms still?
13:21 druthb I've not heard a lot of talk about sharing rooms, so I don't know.
13:21 druthb I would imagine rooms are still available.
13:23 druthb if not, we can always blame cait.
13:23 cait huh?
13:23 druthb (it's what she gets for not paying attention.)
13:24 drojf i think we are still in the "we need more room reservations to get the free conference room" phase
13:24 druthb hi, cait!   did you see the news?  tcohen is coming to KohaCon!
13:24 cait[…]n13/registration/
13:24 tcohen do I need to put some group code or something?
13:24 * oleonard shakes his fist at this JavaScript
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13:24 druthb hi, oleonard and rambutan!
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13:25 druthb oooh….two Gregs.  FTW.
13:25 drojf tcohen: looks like there is a code in the link
13:25 cait tcohen: the link from the wiki page has the code
13:25 druthb rambutan/rhcl:  Either of you going to KohaCon?
13:25 cait you can also see it in the url
13:25 cait :)
13:25 cait i haven't booked the hotel yet
13:25 cait if you want to share room - why not try a mail to the mailinglist?
13:26 cait someone might be interested
13:26 cait yep SKOHACN
13:27 tcohen rooms have a single king size bed
13:27 tcohen guess will make it difficult
13:27 oleonard It's okay we all like each other here ;)
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13:28 cait i think you can also pick queen? beds
13:28 drojf i like the "there is a fee so you don't have to pay an additional charge" part. lol
13:29 cait tcohen: just add the code manually and pick queen beds in one of the cheaper towers
13:29 tcohen nope, only king sized rooms appear
13:30 cait try to go from the normal booking page
13:30 cait not using the link
13:30 cait add the offer/group code i gave above
13:30 cait i think that shoudl work, it does for me
13:30 tcohen i like king beds anyway :-P
13:32 drojf cait: i only see king beds when i enter the code. and only the higher priced room types
13:32 cait ok, off to clean the rest of the apartment... i am having guests for a long weekend :)
13:32 cait oh yes
13:32 cait you are right
13:32 cait hm
13:32 drojf i'd go with a tent
13:32 cait lol
13:33 drojf and put up the tent next to tcohen's king bed lol
13:33 tcohen ok, i'll book on monday
13:34 oleonard If firebug tells my my variable is an object with all the properties I expect it to have, why does console.log( say "undefined" ?
13:34 cait because...
13:34 cait excuse?
13:34 wahanui cait: The server at (port 666) appears to be down.
13:34 cait excuse?
13:34 wahanui cait: The server at (port 666) appears to be down.
13:34 cait hm
13:34 cait i'd go with sun spots in that case
13:35 druthb I was thinking of driving, maybe….but 1,914 miles (3,080 km)…and the whole first *day* of driving would be in the Texas desert country—and it gets worse from there….  uhm.
13:35 druthb I'm by-definition crazy, but I'm not *that* kind of crazy.
13:36 drojf druthb: why would you drive a way like that??
13:36 drojf you really love road trips?
13:37 druthb That's also…uhm….6 tanks of fuel, each way, which, at current prices, is about $250 each way.  Plane tix are about the same.
13:37 cait yeah and you'd need to sleep and eat on the way ...
13:37 druthb I do, actually, drojf…but that one would be especially gruelling.
13:37 cait and you'd be exhausted
13:37 druthb yah.
13:37 drojf sleep through kohacon, drive back
13:37 oleonard On the other hand if you take the plane you'll miss out on all that west Texas AM radio
13:38 druthb I lived out there for 20 years, oleonard.  Had 'nuf of that, thanks.
13:38 druthb I haz iPod.  And my car haz iPod connector built-in.
13:42 drojf it's only a 10 hours drive, if you got a really fast car :P
13:42 druthb Ooooh, fancy.  A note just handed to me, an invitation to a new-hire Meet and Greet dinner with le CEO, at a fancy restaurant near here in a couple of weeks.  Paper note, in an envelope, fancy vellum paper…   "The favor of a reply is requested…"
13:42 druthb drojf:  28 hours, with our speed limits (even though the ones out west keep going up and up and up, it's not an Autobahn.)
13:44 drojf as long as you are faster than the police, speed limits don't matter
13:44 drojf <-- don't take advice from this person
13:44 druthb There's about a 650 km stretch in west TX, where the speed limit is 80 mph/130 kph, but that's as fast as it gets, anywhere in America.
13:45 tcohen is it real what we see in the movies, that once you change state the policy can't get you?
13:45 tcohen then drojf is right :-D
13:45 drojf tcohen: but druthb probably wants to go back too :D
13:45 druthb See, there's the rub, drojf.  Our cops in Texas, particularly the Highway Patrol, drive extremely high-performance cars.  You're *not* faster than them, almost guaranteed.
13:46 drojf only one way… steal a police car
13:46 oleonard If there's any public infrastructure we'll pay for in America, it's toys for the police.
13:46 druthb tcohen: correct, unless you're being chased by federal police (the FBI).  But the states *do* collaborate and cooperate, to some extent.
13:46 tcohen you need to get a D'elorean druthb
13:47 druthb heh.
13:47 druthb Way too fast for my blood.  I'm old and boring; I top out about 120 kph, before I chicken out.
13:49 tcohen hmm,  i reached 205kph when I got my new car for a 'speed limit test'
13:49 druthb I was fairly satisfied when the national speed limit was 65 mph/105 kph.  Faster than that is occasionally nice, out in the boonies.
13:49 tcohen but its not a car anyone should drive at that speed
13:50 druthb The interstate between here and Dallas is now mostly 70/75 mph…that's a nice run.
13:50 druthb about four hours, and you're there.
13:51 tcohen magnus_away: around?
13:52 tcohen bug 9890
13:52 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9890 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Fix the new plugin system for package installs
13:52 tcohen what car do u own druthb?
13:53 Dani joined #koha
13:54 druthb A 2011 Nissan Sentra.
13:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #48 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
13:56 rambutan joined #koha
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14:18 tcohen nice druthb
14:19 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: bug 9505 refactor loops in <[…]eb648e8f8f080f5f5>
14:26 talljoy joined #koha
14:35 tcohen gmcharlt: 9507
14:36 gmcharlt tcohen: ?
14:36 tcohen is a bugfix, with enough refactoring to be considered an enh?
14:36 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #48: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.12.x/48/
14:36 jenkins_koha Robin Sheat: Bug 10367 - [3.12] update the rules and control file for wheezy
14:36 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Allow packages to work on debian wheezy
14:38 jenkins_koha Starting build #1209 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:38 gmcharlt tcohen: that one is pure refactoring; no need to push it unless a later bugfix you want to push depends on it
14:51 oleonard Can someone please give an educated answer to the "Zebra Indexing problem with upgrade" mailing list question so that paul.a doesn't have the last word?
15:02 paul_p joined #koha
15:08 adam_m joined #koha
15:09 adam_m Hello
15:11 reiveune bye
15:12 reiveune left #koha
15:12 pianohacker joined #koha
15:12 pianohacker good morning
15:18 druthb hi, pianohacker! :)
15:19 pianohacker hey druthb
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15:27 adam_m Hello, I have been playing around with the settings of koha, it still seems that though I can check out books there is no way that I can place a hold on a book, I've looked and checked to make sure there wasnt some sort of setting that was stopping from doing so in the patrons category as well as checking to make sure that there was no rule against it in the circulation rules as well
15:28 gaetan_B bye !
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15:37 Fred_ joined #koha
15:38 oleonard adam_m: Still around?
15:39 oleonard adam_m: Do you have a default circulation rule set up?
15:40 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8845: FIX dateonly is the 4th parameter, not 3rd! <[…]5563db64469090fe4> / Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth - Add tooltip <[…]29a6711cdc3cc4681> / Bug 8845: Followup Allow to give a date using the syspref format <http://git.koha-com
15:52 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10381: Followup adding some text around Apply/cancel filter. <[…]cd7c7159003d6c794> / Bug 10381: POD lines of GetBasketsInfosByBookseller <[…]8b3d094ad20f7596c>
15:52 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1209: SUCCESS in 1 hr 15 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1209/
15:52 jenkins_koha Colin Campbell: bug 9505 refactor loops in
15:52 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9505 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , acqui/ contains an unnecessary loop
15:54 jenkins_koha Starting build #1210 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:55 adam_m oleanard: yeah im still here sorry
16:04 tcohen set expandtab
16:04 tcohen set softtabstop=4
16:04 tcohen set shiftwidth=4
16:04 tcohen set nocul cul
16:04 tcohen set nonu nu
16:04 tcohen oops
16:05 melia joined #koha
16:06 gmcharlt :)
16:07 tcohen now everyone knows I use mcedit :-P
16:28 adam_m <oleonard> yes i did also put in default circulation rules
16:29 oleonard adam_m:  AllowOnShelfHolds system preference is set to "allow" ?
16:30 drojf joined #koha
16:32 drojf d'oh. anscheinend gibts ein seminar "modeling lexical data" bei den germanisten. hätte das magisterbegleitend gut gepasst
16:32 drojf hmpf
16:32 drojf wrong window
16:33 adam_m <oleonard> I was looking for that setting. where is that located
16:33 oleonard adam_m: Administration -> System preferences. You can search by preference name.
16:36 adam_m <oleonard> sweet. Alright it seems to work, I feel a little silly for not looking there earlier, thanks for the help!
16:37 adam_m <oleonard> Everything else works perfectly as well. Ready to deploy to the schools now :)
16:37 oleonard adam_m: Getting holds working trips up a lot of people, including me
16:39 pianohacker tcohen: wait, ?
16:42 adam_m <oleonard> there is one particularly odd thing however. seems like that if i search for something and produce a number of results I am able to easily check off whatever items and hold them however if i search something and go directly to a result because there is only one, then I cannot do so
16:45 adam_m <oleonard> ah never mind just in a different place
17:10 gmcharlt @quote random
17:10 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #14: "joetho: I only looked for missing ccodes- not dysfunctional orphans." (added by wizzyrea at 08:31 PM, July 09, 2009)
17:12 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1210: SUCCESS in 1 hr 18 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1210/
17:12 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth
17:12 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 8845: Followup Allow to give a date using the syspref format
17:12 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth - Add tooltip
17:12 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 8845: FIX dateonly is the 4th parameter, not 3rd!
17:12 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8845 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Add ability search patrons by date of birth
17:12 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10381: POD lines of GetBasketsInfosByBookseller
17:12 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10381: Followup adding some text around Apply/cancel filter.
17:12 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10381 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Hide basket links should be improved
17:27 tcohen pianohacker: heh, no, I meant the text editor that ships with mc, it was a joke anyway, as I accidentaly pasted some of my Vim settings
17:30 pianohacker ah, okay! that makes a lot more sense than a minecraft world editor having a tabstop option :)
17:31 tcohen
17:31 tcohen just closed bug #1
17:31 huginn` Bug[…]show_bug.cgi?id=1 major, P2, ---, chris, CLOSED FIXED, Missing uploadedmarc table definition
17:31 pianohacker heh, yup. reddit was in a tizzy about that this morning
17:32 pianohacker haha, thanks huginn`
17:33 gmcharlt @later tell magnuse I'd like to draw your attention to bug 10218 -- I'm assuming that the same changes ought to be made to the NORMARC stylesheets
17:33 huginn` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
17:40 pianohacker hey, #koha. any large #koha libraries out there with z39.50 I could use for (low-load) testing?
17:41 pianohacker ... whose records are a bit less ... sparse than the LOC's? :)
17:41 gmcharlt LC has sparse records?
17:42 * gmcharlt would have expected the vast majority of their available records to be fairly complete
17:42 jcamins gmcharlt: not via Z39.50.
17:42 pianohacker not horribly. There are a few nice things that are missing, though, like 100 tags
17:42 gmcharlt er, what?
17:43 jcamins Their Z39.50 database includes a lot more records than they export to OCLC.
17:43 jcamins And most of those records are seemingly woefully inadequate.
17:43 * gmcharlt blinks
17:44 jcamins That was my response when I was told that, too.
17:45 jcamins (and it wasn't by pianohacker... a cataloger at NYU mentioned this to me in passing)
17:45 pianohacker jcamins: that explains a lot of the weirdness I'm seeing
17:45 druthb @quote random
17:45 huginn` druthb: Quote #7: "Snow_Fox: a rift opens in space the information is shuffled to dev_hyperspace rift then closes" (added by wizzyrea at 03:28 PM, June 18, 2009)
17:45 gmcharlt pianohacker: do you have any specific records handy?
17:45 pianohacker gmcharlt: a bevy of them, let me try to get some urls
17:45 jcamins gmcharlt: I am okay with Koha::MetadataRecord.
17:46 jcamins I'll redo the follow-up this evening.
17:46 gmcharlt jcamins: thanks
17:46 gmcharlt and sorry to be a pain about it, but I generally prefer to tackle naming for new modules before they get added
17:47 jcamins But I definitely don't like Koha::MARC::Record, because one of my goals with the refactor was to make it trivial to add merging non-MARC fielded record types.
17:48 jcamins If, you know, there was some way to have a non-MARC fielded record.
17:49 gmcharlt jcamins: well, that at least will happen in some form for 3.14
17:51 pianohacker gmcharlt: here's an example:[…],7090
17:51 pianohacker (apologies for the url)
17:52 tcohen pianohacker:[…]-50-servers-list/
17:52 gmcharlt pianohacker: I think that is session-specific
17:52 gmcharlt i.e., doesn't work for me
17:52 jcamins That link doesn't work.. What is the 010?
17:52 tcohen bmayor should have better records, FFyH also
17:53 pianohacker curses, sorry. There are some records that only seem to show through certain search interfaces
17:53 pianohacker no 010, but it has a 035 of 96518898
17:54 jcamins No 010? Wow, that _is_ a defective record.
17:54 pianohacker tcohen++
17:54 pianohacker here, I'll pastebin it
17:54 pastebot "pianohacker" at pasted "weird LOC record" (27 lines) at
17:56 druthb Looks like an auto-generated record based on stuff from the Copyright Office, not something they actually handled and cataloged.
17:56 jcamins Yeah.
17:56 druthb Their records on serial romance are like that, too…kinda short; they may get the data directly from publishers.
17:57 gmcharlt encoding level = 5 (from the Leader/17), meaning partial (preliminary record)
17:58 pianohacker that would make sense. Is there a better server for LOC, or a search term that could filter based on leader/17?
17:58 pianohacker using at the moment
17:58 gmcharlt pianohacker: well, LC also has a *ton* of fully fleshed out records; so I guess I'd have to ask ... what are you trying to do, specifically?
17:59 jcamins I think LC supports record level.
17:59 pianohacker gmcharlt: Working on some pazpar2-based external search
17:59 jcamins You'd just have to look up the attribute.
17:59 gmcharlt jcamins: not so sure, alas -
18:00 jcamins Eww. Didn't they use to?
18:02 tcohen i'm not sure bug 6413 is working
18:02 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6413 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Notes in Fines doing wonky things
18:03 tcohen i'm not used to the accountlines table, but the note I wrote is not on the table, or shown anywhere
18:03 jcamins gmcharlt: aside from name, does my follow-up on 9755 address your concerns?
18:06 gmcharlt looks like the 999 check has gone away entirely?
18:06 jcamins Yeah.
18:06 jcamins It was not actually necessary.
18:06 gmcharlt IIRC, that matches previous behavior, so yes, I think the follow-up addresses that
18:07 jcamins Okay. I'll rename the class tonight, then.
18:09 talljoy good afternoon!  anyone familiar with  i am feeding it a marc file of 119K marc authority records and it is 'loading' over 200K marc authority records for me.  normal?
18:10 jcamins Not at all, if there are really only 119k auth records.
18:10 talljoy ikr, weird?
18:10 gmcharlt pianohacker: it looks like some filtering could be done via use attribute 56 (code institution) and excluding "amim" as a source
18:11 gmcharlt but unfortunately, not seeing any documented attributes that support directly filtering on the encoding level
18:11 talljoy it have verified that i only have 119K records in the file and it appears to be reading biblio marc records during the import.  "....Bad MARC record 208719: blah blah blah"......
18:11 talljoy so it is autocreating authorities for me, which is very generous, but totally unwanted behavior.
18:11 pianohacker gmcharlt: okay, cool. Thanks
18:12 jcamins talljoy: bulkmarcimport shouldn't be doing anything like that, so far as I know.
18:13 jcamins It does not in any way interface with the auth linker code.
18:13 talljoy this is very odd indeed. and i have seen this on other loads lately as well.
18:13 jcamins What version, out of curiosity?
18:15 talljoy 3.10.3
18:15 Dyrcona joined #koha
18:15 jcamins No idea. You could try stage_file.
18:16 drojf i blame it does surprise upgrades too
18:16 * drojf hides
18:19 talljoy i'm going to try that too.  i also suspect some inaccuracies in their mrc authority data quite honestly
18:20 jcamins talljoy: and you used marclint or something like that to confirm that there really were 119k records, right?
18:20 talljoy well i used marcedit and it says 119K records, but the last record is cut off.  so i suspect a bad mrc file that is not opening completely in marcedit.
18:22 jcamins "I'm not running the Zebra daemon" <-- huh?
18:23 pianohacker NoZebra? happy fun times
18:24 jcamins pianohacker: not in 3.12!
18:24 jcamins Nor 3.10, for that matter.
18:24 jcamins Nor 3.8, come to that.
18:24 tcohen Nor 3.6 or 3.4
18:24 pianohacker oh thank goodness, didn't know it had been deprecated that long ago
18:25 jcamins tcohen: but it was only deprecated in 3.4 and 3.6. Not removed.
18:25 tcohen yes
18:25 pianohacker although come to think of it, you don't need zebra for circ, so he could have just disabled it to eliminate a cause
18:26 jcamins True.
18:34 tcohen we should have added that while(true){malloc} line to the script
18:34 tcohen s/should/shouldn't/
18:38 pianohacker that the datas tructure with a k20 complete graph maaaaaaay be our downfall
18:38 jcamins That what?
18:38 wahanui That is a good idea.
18:39 pianohacker graph theory babbling
18:40 druthb wahanui:  botsnack Gatorade
18:40 wahanui thanks druthb :)
18:41 * jcamins realizes that "tructure" is not a verb.
18:43 gmcharlt tructure (v): to construct buildings with the aid of a truck
18:44 pianohacker ah, sorry. irc over laggy ssh
18:44 jcamins Ditto.
18:44 druthb druthbsnack tres leches cake  :)
18:44 pianohacker "well billy bob I think we done did tructured it"
18:49 maximep frustration of the day: bug 10096
18:49 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10096 new feature, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Add a Z39.50 interface for authority searching
18:49 maximep we did the exact same thing 2 years ago, but could never share it
18:49 maximep -_-
18:50 pianohacker maximep: ?
18:50 jcamins maximep: that's why contributing code is not optional in my contracts.
18:51 pianohacker I've done work for certain clients under NDAs (never again), was that your situation?
18:54 maximep I won't get into details, but yeah, it sucks
18:55 maximep to work using only open source tech, but tu never have time to share stuff
18:55 pianohacker sorry to hear that
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19:00 maximep bug 8337. Aren't sysprefs automatically added to the db when they don't existe ?
19:00 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8337 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Failed QA , System preferences for longoverdue cron
19:00 jcamins No.
19:00 maximep huh
19:01 pianohacker maximep: the sysprefs interface will though
19:02 maximep pretty sure you only need to add it to the .pref if you dont need a default value
19:02 maximep ah yes, that's what I meant
19:03 pianohacker weeeeell, you should explicitly add it to both, as the type and options fields are important
19:03 jcamins Yes.
19:03 pianohacker you mainly need to make sure that the type field is set to YesNo if it's a boolean field, to ensure it's intepreted and saved correctly
19:04 pianohacker plus having a description field is a nice thing for people working in the DB :)
19:05 jcamins Plus, it's required to get into Koha.
19:05 jcamins :)
19:05 maximep alright :P
19:05 maximep noted for future patches =)
19:06 pianohacker so, it's an official requirement that has a number of good reasons behind it :)
19:10 gmcharlt and will remain so unless somebody wants to add a bit more metadata to the *.pref files and writing a sync_stock_prefs() routine
19:10 gmcharlt which might be nice for DRY
19:11 jcamins And if you decide to work on that, consider replacing YAML::Syck.
19:11 maximep great idea
19:11 pianohacker that's an excellent idea
19:11 jcamins The POD says "DO NOT USE THIS MODULE."
19:11 maximep bwahaha
19:11 maximep hmmm search.cpan isnt working
19:12 pianohacker Hahaha, yeah. Your choice is between YAML::Syck, which is old and twitchy, and YAML::PP, which is _crap_ at interpreting types in YAML correctly
19:13 pianohacker I'd be quite happy to find out that other alternatives have been made
19:13 jcamins YAML::XS?
19:13 jcamins Pretty sure that's what the POD recommends.
19:13 pianohacker I _think_ that had the same problems, but let me check again
19:14 jcamins I prefer JSON, though. It's way faster.
19:14 gmcharlt but tends to be less great for cases where we expect humans to write it
19:15 pianohacker excactly
19:15 jcamins gmcharlt: You can write it formatted exactly the same as YAML, no?
19:15 pianohacker jcamins: somewhat. the syntax is clunkier, though
19:16 jcamins I understood that JSON was a superset of JAYAML.
19:16 gmcharlt and most JSON tools don't pretty-print by default (for obvious reasons)
19:16 jcamins s/JAYAML/YAML/
19:16 gmcharlt jcamins: other way around, I think
19:16 pianohacker my understanding was the opposite
19:16 jcamins gmcharlt: ohhhh.
19:16 jcamins That clarifies why YAML is slower.
19:17 * druthb extends YAML::Syck; she is old and twitchy, too
19:17 gmcharlt :)
19:17 jcamins I always thought it was kind of dumb to use algorithms on a subset that were slower than those that handled the more general case.
19:18 jcamins And by "always," I mean "it crossed my mind once, briefly, when someone said 'let's use YAML/JSON for koha-conf.xml'"
19:19 pianohacker Truthfully, given how simple _koha's_ requirements are for koha-conf.xml, then thing could be an INI
19:20 pianohacker zebra's the main reason for it being the size, shape and format it is, afaik
19:20 gmcharlt pianohacker: eh, and that really was by happensance
19:21 gmcharlt there's actually no particular reason why the main Zebra config file needs to also store Koha's base config settings
19:22 gmcharlt for what Koha itself needs, you really could get away with plain old INI
19:22 gmcharlt ;)
19:23 pianohacker gmcharlt: the only thing I  can think of is that it allows us the cool trick of storing the zebra username/password in only one place
19:23 gmcharlt no great loss if we have to store it twice
19:24 pianohacker yeah
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19:55 rangi anyone got a sec to sanity check somethign for me?
19:55 gmcharlt sure
19:55 oleonard It's okay rangi I see the pink elephants too
19:56 rangi[…]
19:56 rangi user:staff
19:56 rangi pass:staff1
19:57 rangi sheri turner for a borrwer, and testcard for a barcode .. it feels plenty snappy to me?
19:57 rangi prolly laggier to you on the other side of the net
19:57 rangi but not 30seconds?
19:58 oleonard No, maybe 3 seconds for me
19:58 bag yeah was snappy here too
19:58 rangi (its a single cpu 2500 mhz with 1gig of ram)
19:58 rangi running stock debian squeeze and stock 3.12.0 package
19:59 bag curlload it :)
19:59 rangi sorry, 10gig
19:59 rangi i cant read without coffee :)
20:00 jcamins Does anyone else get stopped short by CPU speeds?
20:00 bag yeah 10gig will be quick
20:00 bag jcamins I've seen it yes
20:01 jcamins bag: no, I mean the numbers.
20:01 jcamins "2500 mhz"
20:01 drojf "so the 2 differences are Ubuntu and the LiveDVD" … *whistles in an unsuspicious way*
20:01 jcamins That's freaking *fast*.
20:01 rangi but yeah its not a super box by even the slightest stretch of the imagination
20:01 jcamins I remember 33Mhz seeming fast.
20:01 rangi its running about 12 koha instances too
20:02 rangi thanks
20:03 rangi there is a that with some hacking mostly works
20:03 rangi i might try benchmarking the same db on a few different versions over the weekend
20:03 rangi but probably not
20:03 rangi cos its ataraus party tomorrow
20:04 bag is this your new home server?  Or did you abandon that idea and host everything
20:04 bag yay Maui sighting right?
20:06 rangi no thats a catalyst one
20:06 gmcharlt rangi: my suspicion, albeit one without any real basis at the moment, is that it might be data dependent
20:06 rangi
20:06 gmcharlt i.e. some quirk of their circ policies causing a busy-wait loop
20:07 rangi gmcharlt: could be, but if the same data on 3.10.x .. that would be less likely, i guess it might be different data though
20:07 rangi bag: yep got a maui sighting
20:08 rangi i wonder if im the only one who is comfortable with no plugin repository, or one that says, 'we provide no, none, nada, assurance of the qualtity of any of these, use totally at your own risk'
20:08 rangi cos frankly the QA team has more than enough work already
20:09 * jcamins is comfortable with no plugin registry.
20:09 jcamins Provide a place people can upload plugins to, maybe, with the explicit note that none of them are supported by anyone other than the plugin's author, and don't count on that either.
20:09 rangi yep, just like wordpress
20:10 gmcharlt rangi: my fear with that is that without an official repo, anything calling itself a Koha plugin that is malicious or simply badly written reflects back on us
20:10 oleonard How do we provide a place for uploads without suggesting that they are at least somewhat official?
20:10 gmcharlt no matter how much we disclaim responsibility
20:10 jcamins gmcharlt: well, that cat's out of the bag, short of you reverting the plugin host.
20:11 jcamins oleonard: separate website?
20:11 bag I know that nengard and khall are working on plugin host
20:11 rangi i guess if a bunch of people want to volunteer to do plugin qa, then it might be workable, but i fear it will drain our already thin testing resources
20:11 jcamins bag: I'm not proposing that the plugin code should be removed! I bent my own rules to get it in!
20:11 bag at least one that we could offer…  and I'd be willing to offer that we QA those
20:11 jcamins Oh, wait.
20:12 jcamins You meant host as in server.
20:12 jcamins I meant host as in "code that will run plugins."
20:12 bag jcamins: same
20:12 bag we'd be willing to QA those - no problem
20:13 gmcharlt bag: and along with that, promise to not allow plugins to become a way to slip stuff past the core QA radar?
20:13 bag gmcharlt: totally agree
20:14 bag plugins for us = some odd thing that would never ever make sense to write something for koha - becuase there is only one person on the world that would want it
20:14 bag if there are two people that want - I believe in a patch for koha
20:16 bag it's also pretty rad for reports
20:17 bag so far we do have one good script for it - that rolls hard-due-dates forward
20:17 rangi i figure we'd have to elect a plugin QA team
20:17 rangi if the community is going to assert anything
20:18 bag that's fine with me - we'll volunteer for it - until you get someone outside bywater that wants to do it - and we'll pass it on :)
20:18 rangi same rules should apply of course
20:18 rangi you cant qa your own work
20:19 rangi or whats the point?
20:19 wahanui the point is not that the koha-community write a page about there software and the PTFS people write a page about there's. the point is that we have useful, informative content about the software and it's history and that anything controversial is closely referenced
20:19 gmcharlt bag: one of the points, as far as I'm concerned, would be ensuring that if it happens, it happens as a broadly-shared community effort
20:19 rangi lol
20:19 rangi wahanui forget the point
20:19 wahanui rangi: I forgot point
20:19 rangi whats the point?
20:20 bag yeah I totally agree - I am not disagreing with anyone :)  -- I'm just saying we are willing to help out to get the ball rolling
20:20 bag there is no reason to pull plugins - it's disabled by default
20:21 gmcharlt bag: the mere existence of the feature has consequences that I wish had been planned for a bit more in advance; but at least we're having the discussion now
20:22 rangi right kids to school
20:22 rangi bbl
20:22 bag I'm getting a little frustrated at the moment - I'll be back later… before I say something dumb
20:23 bag well normally I say dumb things - before I say dumbass things :P
20:23 gmcharlt bag: well one thing to keep in mind, there is no serious proposal to actually revert the feature
20:23 rangi ftr im way more happy with saying using at your risk, but ill live with a robust qa process as second best option
20:39 khall_away joined #koha
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21:04 rangi back
21:19 tcohen hi rangi
21:20 rangi heya tcohen
21:20 rangi i sent a sample invitation letter
21:20 rangi so hopefully you will get one :)
21:21 tcohen i got it, thanks
21:21 rambutan joined #koha
21:21 rangi yay!
21:21 tcohen actually, I got my visa yesterday
21:21 pianohacker joined #koha
21:21 rangi excellent
21:21 pianohacker phew, have swap and btrfs autodefrag in place, hopefully things will stop exploding
21:22 tcohen i'm in talks with my boss to get the money soon and book for kohacon
21:24 rangi one of the guys at work had 2 btrfs fails in 2 days
21:24 rangi he's sworn off it
21:24 rangi pianohacker: backups :)
21:24 pianohacker hahaha, yes. what do you use for backups, btw?
21:25 * Dyrcona has heard nothing good about btrfs.....
21:25 pianohacker I use it for the high write performance on an SSD with LZO compression, but it is a bit twitchy
21:25 rangi pianohacker: obnam
21:26 rangi
21:26 gmcharlt liw++
21:26 rangi the thing i like is you just need somewhere you can ssh to, to back up to it
21:27 rangi The backup server, if used, does not require any special software, on top of SSH.  <-- made of win
21:27 pianohacker oh hey, that's right, lars
21:27 pianohacker this does look nice, simple enough to work consistently
21:28 pianohacker dejadup is sexy but all kinds of frustrating to actually use
21:28 rangi i finally fixed the ubunut ppa too
21:28 pianohacker well, debian has an up-to-date package, no excuse not to use it :)
21:28 liw ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:29 pianohacker hahahaha
21:29 pianohacker hey lars
21:29 pianohacker I'm thinking of using obnam
21:29 * liw waves, on the way to bed
21:29 pianohacker any reason i shouldn't? ;)
21:29 liw pianohacker, it's written by a lunatic lazy person, but ask rangi, he's less biased than I am
21:30 pianohacker hahaha, k. thanks, good night
21:30 pianohacker rangi: so yeah, obnam looks like the bee's knees. any twitchyness or reasons to be careful with it?
21:30 pianohacker and it's written in Python! yay!
21:31 sophie_m left #koha
21:32 rangi pianohacker: you can chat to eythian when he gets in too, he uses it as well
21:33 pianohacker will do
21:37 laurence left #koha
21:38 rangi hmm that report on bug 7973 sounds nasty
21:38 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7973 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Allow for new type of LDAP authentication
21:41 gmcharlt rangi: agreed
21:41 gmcharlt hmm
21:41 gmcharlt I'm feeling a bit of inspiration to put up an LDAP directory on
21:41 wizzyrea @quote add <liw>  ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:41 huginn` wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
21:42 wizzyrea @quote add <liw>  ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:42 huginn` wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #254 added.
21:42 wizzyrea ^.^
21:42 gmcharlt can't run active directory, of course, but having a stable directory to test against would be golden
21:50 rangi *nod*
21:50 rangi jenkins could test against it
21:51 rangi if we had ldap, we could even seed it with some real data
21:51 rangi like galen charlton, release manager :)
21:52 rangi and then libravatar
21:52 cjh heh
21:53 rangi then our own idp for persona
21:53 cjh ldap jenkins testing would be sweet
21:54 * rangi wanders off on a tangent
21:55 wizzyrea lol
21:55 wizzyrea if you think of things to stash on there, that's fine by me
21:55 wizzyrea maybe linode will upgrade my server someday
21:57 rangi
21:57 rangi is coming along
21:57 rangi the infrastructure is all done, you can add a url fetch ratings blah blah
21:57 rangi (thats what im doing on my linode at the mo)
21:58 rangi i just have to add lots more words
21:58 rangi and then send the patch for the export bit for koha
21:58 rangi
21:58 rangi whats a better license than blah blah
21:59 gmcharlt CC0
21:59 rangi yeah, i think that would work
22:02 dani left #koha
22:09 aquaman joined #koha
22:09 eythian hi
22:09 wahanui hey, eythian
22:14 pianohacker hey eythian
22:15 rambutan joined #koha
22:15 rhcl joined #koha
22:15 talljoy_DND is jcamins still here?
22:16 talljoy_DND @later tell jcamins can you tell me what this error means when the runs?  Can't call method "field" on an undefined value at /home/load12/kohaclone/C4/ line 1194.  thanks!
22:16 huginn` talljoy_DND: The operation succeeded.
22:17 rangi talljoy_DND: invalid biblio or authority
22:17 rangi means the $record is undefined
22:17 talljoy_DND well yes, but i wonder which biblio or authority.
22:17 rangi you'll have to add debugging to find that out
22:17 talljoy_DND if biblio i know which one, but if it's an authority records, i'm not sure how to track it down.  and i am running it on debug unless there is a more robust debug
22:17 rangi its going to be specific to your data
22:18 rangi no, you will have to add warns
22:18 rangi to output the id numbers
22:18 talljoy_DND that's along the lines of what i was thinking i'd have to do.
22:19 rangi it could also be a biblio or auth record that as been deleted
22:19 rangi but is still in zebra
22:19 rangi what i would do tho
22:20 rangi is find the 2 places it creates the records (auth and biblio)
22:20 rangi and do
22:20 rangi if (! $record) { die $idnumber; }
22:20 rangi (with correct variable names)
22:20 rangi then it will die at the bad record
22:22 maximep left #koha
22:26 rhcl left #koha
22:28 jcamins talljoy_DND: basically what rangi said.
22:28 talljoy_DND so place these warns in the script somewhere.
22:29 rangi yep
22:30 melia_ joined #koha
22:30 talljoy_DND i'll give it a whirl and hope i put i get it right the first time!  ;-)
22:32 wizzyrea if at first you don't succeed.
22:32 wizzyrea whinge a bit and try again.
22:32 gmcharlt heh
22:33 wizzyrea i find whinging essential to my process :P
22:33 wizzyrea "if I could only make it do this thing wah wah wah ... oh."
22:34 berick joined #koha
22:35 gmcharlt whinges == itches? :)
22:36 wizzyrea whinging = whining
23:09 pianohacker_D wizzyrea: Like a less trolly version of ?
23:11 cjh heh awesome
23:11 pianohacker_D except most people in here are level-headed enough that it would backfire
23:12 wizzyrea hm no I could see that working.
23:12 pianohacker_D "Koha can't make circulation rules that vary by phase of the moon!"
23:12 pianohacker_D "Well... yeah..."
23:12 wizzyrea "voyager does it"
23:12 wizzyrea EFF THAT LET"S DO IT
23:12 wizzyrea :P
23:12 wizzyrea ;)
23:12 cjh it could, and for a small down payment...
23:12 wizzyrea kekekeke
23:12 pianohacker_D wizzyrea: oh god that version could work...
23:13 pianohacker_D substitute unicorn, iii or llek depending on what mood you're in that day
23:14 wizzyrea it might not work on me "well voyager is bad and you should feel bad for using it."
23:14 pianohacker_D grumpy, trickstery or "some men just want to watch the #koha burn"
23:14 wizzyrea :P
23:15 pianohacker_D "well, maybe I'll switch back to a _real_ ILS instead of this open-source stuff that's against capitalism!"
23:15 wizzyrea "good riddance.
23:15 * wizzyrea is not terribly sympathetic.
23:15 trea !
23:15 pianohacker_D heh well yeah, that's what /kickban is made for :)
23:15 wizzyrea ^.^
23:16 pianohacker_D "trea kicked by wizzyrea (You forgot to fold the laundry!)"
23:16 wizzyrea !
23:16 trea what's laundry
23:16 pianohacker_D hehe
23:16 wizzyrea *snicker*
23:23 drnoe joined #koha
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23:28 cait joined #koha
23:29 cjh morning cait
23:29 jcamins cait?!?
23:29 wahanui go back to bed, cait.
23:30 cait vacation :-)
23:34 papa joined #koha
23:40 bag oh enjoy vacation cait
23:40 cait only a day -today was a holiday
23:40 gmcharlt gah -- nothing quite like nearly sitting on one's cat
23:40 bag oh enjoy holiday cait
23:40 gmcharlt you'd think I would know to always check first
23:41 jcamins gmcharlt: that sentence is wrong.
23:41 jcamins It implies a completely fictitious relationship.
23:41 jcamins _You_ have a _cat_?
23:41 gmcharlt cait: have a good vacation!
23:41 gmcharlt jcamins: heh, indeed, the possessive goes the other way
23:41 jcamins The cat is the owner in the relationship.
23:42 jcamins :)
23:42 * jcamins cheerfully merges authority records for Rock music and Rap (Music).
23:43 jcamins Bah. I introduced a typo in this round of renames.
23:44 dcook joined #koha
23:45 eythian jcamins: you should merge country with rap, to produce "crap"
23:45 jcamins lol
23:45 jcamins eythian++
23:46 dcook hehe
23:47 trea no, that's Gangstagrass.
23:47 jcamins Oh, drat.
23:47 jcamins I think I just uploaded the wrong patches.
23:49 jcamins Nope, right ones.
23:53 cait night
23:55 jsangalli joined #koha
23:55 jcamins rangi++ # calling cars rivers.
23:58 dcook What the...
23:58 wahanui the is a stop word
23:58 jcamins dcook: on twitter.
23:58 * jcamins wanders off.
23:58 dcook jcamins: ?
23:58 dcook I was referring to the email where the person was using Debian but not using packages

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