Time  Nick          Message
00:22 jenkins_koha  Project Koha_3.10.x build #126: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/126/
00:22 jenkins_koha  Owen Leonard: Bug 10083 [3.10.x] In Transit string doesn't get translated in the staff interface
00:22 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10083 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , In Transit string doesn't get translated in the staff interface
00:58 pug           Hi there
00:58 wahanui       hola, pug
00:58 pug           Hi wahanui
00:59 wahanui       salut, pug
00:59 pug           I needed to test a multisite deployment of koha
01:01 pug           Each deplyment with its separate DB and separate perl modules (C4, Intranet, Opac etc) -- on the same server
01:02 pug           anyone knows any helpful post? -- shall I just groundup build from git repos with separate document root folders?
01:02 pug           what would you say whanui?
01:05 druthb        wahanui is a bot.  :P
01:05 pug           :)
01:05 druthb        wahanui: druthb?
01:05 wahanui       Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
01:05 * druthb      nods
01:05 druthb        botsnack cookie
01:06 druthb        wahanui: botsnack cookie
01:06 wahanui       :)
01:06 druthb        pug, I've done what you're thinking of doing, and it's not hard; just download the git repo into different users' directories, and go to it.  But packages might be an easier way for you.
01:06 druthb        wahanui: packages?
01:06 wahanui       packages is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
01:07 druthb        There's some help there on packages; it's *super* easy
01:07 jcamins       pug: why would you want to have completely separate codebases?
01:08 * dcook       would assume for localized customizations?
01:09 dcook         Which, now that I think about it, isn't (easily) possible with packages?
01:09 pug           druthb, okay - I think ill go for it and try out
01:09 jcamins       dcook: no, but if you're doing local customizations on that scale, you're doing it wrong.
01:09 pug           jcamins, dcook  - yeah , for localized customizations
01:09 druthb        if you want a lot of localized customizations (which is chaos and madness!), then you can't use packages easily, if at all.  But...better not to.
01:09 jcamins       druthb: sure you can.
01:09 jcamins       I do it all the time.
01:10 druthb        Monkeying with templates?
01:10 jcamins       Yeah.
01:10 jcamins       And everything else.
01:10 wahanui       well, everything else is just extras
01:10 jcamins       wahanui: not when it involves substantial changes to C4::*
01:10 wahanui       jcamins: huh?
01:10 dcook         hehe
01:10 jcamins       If you have small libraries, you use containers.
01:11 druthb        :P
01:11 jcamins       If you have large libraries, they shouldn't be on the same server.
01:11 pug           I want to be able to integrate the customizations with upgarded versions - how can you possibly do that peacefully while using packages?
01:11 jcamins       pug: by rolling your own packages.
01:11 dcook         Or by submitting your customizations to the community
01:11 dcook         And hoping they all get in ;)
01:11 jcamins       Basically instead of resolving merge conflicts in production (ohgodohgodohgoditsbrokennowwhatdidido!), you resolve them on your staging server, then deploy in an atomic update.
01:12 pug           unfortunately they arent that relevant - for all to get on them
01:12 rangi         we role our own packages
01:12 * jcamins     rolls his own packages.
01:12 rangi         git for development, packages for production
01:12 rangi         you shouldnt be EVER developing or changing anything apart from config on a live server
01:12 pug           I havent rolled my package before - but i think then thats something I must consider
01:12 * dcook       nods
01:12 rangi         so why have a full git clone there with all the security risks that entails
01:13 dcook         It's what I'm looking at doing soon, pug
01:13 jcamins       Hotfixes are easy to deploy with packages, too.
01:13 jcamins       Unlike with git.
01:13 rangi         pug: are you in the US?
01:13 pug           unfrotunately not in the US!
01:13 dcook         jcamins: Good point about the large libraries. As for the small ones, I'm intrigued. What did you mean by containers?
01:13 jcamins       pug: that's a good thing.
01:13 * dcook       nods
01:13 pug           exactly, what did you mean by containers?
01:13 jcamins       I've just been reading about contract law under common law.
01:13 * jcamins     shudders.
01:14 dcook         As much as I adore our Americans here ;)
01:14 pug           jcamins, containers?
01:14 jcamins       Did you know that if you don't get promised a pension before you start, you are not guaranteed a pension in the US (if your employer starts offering one), but you are in France?
01:14 jcamins       Anyway, I use lxc.
01:15 jcamins       Well, I do that when I can't get away with upstreaming or mainstreaming.
01:16 jcamins       I sort of petered out with documentation and generalization at some point, so the best documentation is probably this: http://git.cpbibliography.com/?p=release-tools.git;a=blob;f=release-tool.pl;h=383616583ce044e9cbcc145b501ce8b556cac832;hb=HEAD#l668
01:16 dcook         jcamins: Can't say it surprises me. Did you know, in Canada, contracts are valid even if you're nearly black out drunk? Why you have 24-48 hours to go to the other party and ask them to void it, they're under no legal obligation to do so. In order to prove that you were coerced into signing, you need to have solid eyewitness testimony that somehow "proves" that they essentially took your blacked out hand and made you sign the paper
01:16 dcook         In other words, never sign anything under the influence of anything, because it's all perfectly legal. No one has won on that defense in about 100 years.
01:17 jcamins       I also learned that all those scammy-sounding "we'll help you pay only a portion of what you owe" things are not legally enforceable.
01:17 dcook         The implications of having fiduciary obligations to former employers can also be pretty interesting
01:18 dcook         Contract law is rather fascinating
01:18 pug           jcamins: alright, ill look into lxc and creating packages
01:18 jcamins       It is, actually.
01:18 jcamins       But lawyers are incapable of writing well. :(
01:18 dcook         But yes, pug, the best advice that cait ever gave me was: "Local customizations? Just don't do them."
01:18 pug           is it really a bad idea to use git based deployment for production?
01:19 jcamins       pug: YES!!!!!
01:19 jcamins       That is one of the worst Koha-related ideas I can think of.
01:19 jcamins       Right after using a livecd you don't understand. </poke>
01:20 pug           can you pen a few reasons why its a bad idea?
01:20 jcamins       Yeah.
01:20 jcamins       Security is bad.
01:20 jcamins       Anyone can access any executable file, even if it's not safe.
01:21 pug           Ok .. I see thats a big issue then
01:21 * jcamins     thinks so.
01:21 pug           And Besides security?
01:21 jcamins       It makes it psychologically too easy to "just do a little tweak."
01:22 jcamins       And the result is invariably (in my experience) lots of untested "little tweaks" going in.
01:22 pug           I see your point!
01:23 pug           jcamins: And that seems enough to call off git on production -- thanks a lot
01:24 jcamins       Yay!
01:24 jcamins       Glad I could help dissuade you.
01:24 * jcamins     goes to eat dinner.
01:24 * dcook       now ponders what jcamins has on the menu tonight...damned timezones
01:24 pug           Im off too - bye!
01:24 dcook         pug: Just curious, what situation are you in?
01:26 pug           Im at a point where Im trying template customizations - customizations of say a few different types
01:26 dcook         Which templates?
01:27 dcook         You might find it easier to use customized XSLTs for the search results and detail pages
01:27 dcook         Way easier than managing separate code bases
01:27 pug           circulation, main etc
01:27 dcook         There are system preferences for changing the content in main
01:27 dcook         As for circulation...you might have me there
01:28 dcook         Also remember that there are system preferences for userCSS and userJS
01:28 dcook         If it's just template changes, those can do a lot
01:29 pug           Im 'taking things off' the templates -- i.e. the UI
01:29 pug           not just the CSS stuff
01:29 dcook         I'm not sure I follow...
01:29 dcook         And really - taking things off is much easier than putting them on ;)
01:29 pug           Yeah it is -- quite easy
01:29 dcook         What sorts of things are you taking off?
01:30 pug           e.g. too many options on the checkout
01:30 dcook         (I meant through config rather than code-level changes)
01:30 dcook         Such as?
01:30 * dcook       is curoius
01:30 pug           few unrequired columns .. etc
01:30 dcook         curious too
01:31 pug           the circ-menu has too many buttons
01:32 pug           as an example
01:32 pug           when I say ' too many' .. its considering a certain audience in mind
01:33 pug           circ-toolbar (not circ-menu)
01:33 dcook         It sounds like the sort of things that you could do with CSS and JS, but all the power to you. Good luck!
01:33 pug           thanks! --
01:34 pug           but do you have a suggestions as to how can I make the changes now - and keep up with the upgrades?
01:35 pug           Im currently doing the changes off a branch of a specific version of git
01:36 pug           (Im doing this for schools in India - the librarian's esp. the staff's ability is quite weak wrt dealing with lot of text/buttons on the screen)
01:38 pug           dcook? there?
01:38 dcook         Ish. I'm working on a project :p
01:39 dcook         I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying.
01:40 * dac         pokes dcook
01:41 pug           Im just saying - I want to make loads of changes to the templates in say ver 3.08.12 and merge them to later versions .. whats the most effective way of doing this AND not using git in production ?
01:41 dcook         That's better
01:41 dcook         Hmm?
01:41 cjh           pug: you can use git for developement and then build packages to deploy for production
01:41 dcook         That's probably your best bet
01:42 cjh           that way you get all the nifty stuff from git and all the stability of packages.
01:42 dcook         You have to realize though...the more changes you make...the more work you're making for yourself in the future
01:42 pug           k - so basically ill have to build my own packages
01:43 pug           I understand the issue with too many changes - but I actually do not see any option to that --
01:43 cjh           ./debian/build-git-snapshot if you are targetting debian
01:43 cjh           ideally you want to upstream as much as possible, so you can avoid having to maintain lots of local code.
01:43 pug           Im on ubuntu
01:44 pug           cjh .. is that a git command to build a package for debian?
01:45 cjh           you can install debian packages on ubuntu, it isnt a git command it is a script inside the koha git repository.
01:45 pug           https://github.com/pianohacker/koha/blob/master/debian/build-git-snapshot
01:45 pug           that one, right?
01:45 cjh           yes.
01:46 pug           (just trying to be sure! )
01:46 cjh           no problem :)
01:46 rangi         hmm
01:46 pug           I think this is terrific help!
01:46 jcamins       pug: you should clone the official git repo, though.
01:46 rangi         is there a reason you arent using the official repo?
01:46 pug           I am using the official repo
01:46 jcamins       Or one of the mirrors that is automatically synced.
01:46 cjh           oohh oops, I should have pointed that out.
01:47 cjh           http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=debian/build-git-snapshot;h=3f06ff2fa4d62b8901a7a353e5323c2f6d083b7a;hb=HEAD
01:47 jcamins       pug: and, as for your question about making changes in 3.8.12 and then merging them into later versions, it's going to be horrible no matter what.
01:47 jcamins       But no worse when using packages than when using git.
01:47 pug           I see
01:47 jcamins       And, actually, better, if some of the changes are in common.
01:48 jcamins       Because git does this thing I don't understand where it manages to automatically resolve more conflicts sometimes in those cases.
01:49 pug           jcamins - oh it does?!
01:49 jcamins       Sometimes.
01:49 jcamins       As I said, I don't understand it.
01:49 pug           jcamins - but if I have to make changes to the templates -- I dont see another options
01:49 jcamins       Right.
01:49 jcamins       If you are making changes, you are making changes.
01:49 jcamins       So it's going to be unpleasant.
01:49 jcamins       That's just a fact of life.
01:50 jcamins       Now you are presented with the task of mitigating that unpleasantness as much as possible, and the way to mitigate it is with packages.
01:50 jcamins       If you use the release-tool.pl script that I linked to earlier, it can make things a lot more pleasant.
01:50 pug           so my best bet is .. 1. make changes in a git stable version 2. make my own package for production 3. merge the changes painfully with the next stable version
01:51 pug           Does that roughly sum it up?
01:51 cjh           and keep your changes as simple and as close to upstream as possible
01:51 jcamins       Right.
01:51 jcamins       And any changes that you could make general-purpose, do so, and submit to Koha.
01:51 cjh           the less work you have to do in the future, the better.
01:51 * dcook       nods
01:51 cjh           so if you can make your changes upstreamable, then it is a lot easier.
01:51 dcook         I still have a good hundred changes from an old version of Koha that I need to work on merging...
01:51 rangi         and if you are hiding buttons/content/tables etc
01:51 rangi         use css and/or jquery
01:51 dcook         Well, merging/sending upstream
01:52 rangi         in the sysprefs to do it, rather than changing templates
01:52 rangi         because those will survive upgrades
01:52 dcook         There are quite a few IDs and classes to hook onto for that
01:52 jcamins       Right, that can't be repeated enough.
01:53 pug           rangi -- okay -- thats helpful too -- ill look into that approach - avoided, since I hadnt worked on js earlier - but I guess Ill have to catchup with it
01:53 jcamins       pug: you can learn javascript in way less time than it will take to learn how to maintain multiple custom forks.
01:54 cjh           heh
01:55 * jcamins     can prove this...
01:55 pug           yeah  - sounds like it , from what I am hearing
01:55 jcamins       dcook: when you first started, you didn't know much about customizing Koha with JS and CSS, did you?
01:56 dcook         Mmm, no, but 99% of the customizations pre-date me ;)
01:56 jcamins       Sure, but you've successfully done some customizations, I think.
01:56 dcook         Which makes it even more fun trying to figure out what they do before merging into newer versions of Koha...
01:57 dcook         Yep yep
01:57 jcamins       So, follow-up question: do you know how to maintain a customized fork without tearing your hair out?
01:57 dcook         hehe
01:57 dcook         Nope
01:58 dcook         CSS is incredibly simple (although cross-browser CSS can sometimes be a pain). Jquery also makes using Javascript 10x easier.
01:58 jcamins       QED :)
01:58 dcook         pug: Lots of useful help out there on Jquery's website, stackoverflow, etc.
01:58 cjh           and jquery updates are far easier to maintain, the underlying classes/ids change far less than the code (somewhere between never and rarely)
01:59 cjh           that wasnt english... close enough.
01:59 pug           cjh - you answered my question before I would have asked :)
02:00 eythian       pug: it might be good for you to add CSS ids to the things you want to hide, and then use CSS/jquery to manipulate them
02:00 eythian       adding the ids/classes is upstreamable.
02:00 cjh           and then you can upstream the css ids :)
02:00 cjh           drats, too slow.
02:00 dcook         :D
02:01 dcook         Not to mention the fact that it's just plain useful for others in the future as well
02:01 dcook         So you're doing others a favour ;)
02:01 pug           that sounds like a easy way to do it, though - wouldnt work well?
02:01 eythian       works fine, that's usually how we do it, and it saves on template modifications
02:01 eythian       which are always painful to deal with
02:02 jcamins       That's definitely the way to do it. It would work great. :)
02:02 pug           cool - i think i get it
02:02 cjh           it also depends on what kind of changes you are making, if it is only adding/removing from a page then it is perfect.
02:02 pug           so I was doing it the un-smart way -- creating blocks in templates , and including them or not based on IFs
02:02 jcamins       pug: ouch, no, you don't want to do that.
02:03 pug           jcamins -- hmm  - I see now
02:04 pug           so I use css ids, classes .. show or hide, ids and classes .. incase I wish to use some conditions use js .. right?!
02:05 jcamins       Yup.
02:05 jcamins       And you can do some pretty impressive things with js.
02:05 jcamins       jquery library?
02:05 wahanui       somebody said jquery library was found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library
02:06 pug           Did you guys collectively just save my life?!
02:06 pug           :)
02:06 jcamins       Probably, yeah.
02:08 pug           jcamins - :) .. but the 'make your own debian package' for my Ubuntu production enviro still stays , right?
02:08 jcamins       Yes.
02:08 jcamins       Unless you manage to avoid any code customizations at all, in which case, no need to bother.
02:09 pug           Im sure some conditions or the other would come in .. that sounds quite expected as of now
02:10 pug           Alright - ill go back - do the homework on the new plan and come back
02:10 pug           ciao guys?
02:10 jcamins       What kind of library, BTW?
02:12 pug           for small schools - in India  - that arent using anything - and the staff under the librarian wouldnt want to read LOT of words on the screen
02:19 pug           alright guys - thanks a ton - ttys!
02:19 pug           bye!
02:46 eythian       the master package should now be directly installable on wheezy and squeeze.
02:46 * eythian     goes to double check this
02:47 dcook         :D
03:31 mtompset      Greetings, #koha.
03:31 dcook         hey ya mtompset
03:33 mtompset      Greetings, dcook.
03:33 mtompset      I'm curious. Do we have any authentication methods working in koha that don't require the user to be in the borrowers table?
03:39 wizzyrea      ldap can work that way I think - eythian might know
03:39 eythian       no
03:39 wizzyrea      or not
03:39 eythian       well, when you first log in, it will put the borrower into the borrowers table
03:39 eythian       might be that's what you mean
03:39 wizzyrea      what am I thinking of then
03:39 wizzyrea      or not storing the passwords maybe
03:39 eythian       wizzyrea: I'm not sure :)
03:39 wizzyrea      probably that
03:39 wahanui       probably that is an issue with missing dependencies.
03:39 eythian       yeah, could be that
03:40 mtompset      so with ldap, the first time you log in, it adds the user?
03:40 eythian       yeah
03:40 eythian       otherwise tracking user info isn't really possible
03:41 eythian       wahanui: seen tcohen
03:41 wahanui       tcohen was last seen on #koha 11 hours, 51 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying: thanks oleonard  [Wed May 29 15:50:13 2013]
03:42 wizzyrea      yeah, how would you know if things were issued if you didn't have users?
03:42 eythian       @later tell tcohen Bug 10367 is ready for 3.12, probably a good one to get in soon.
03:42 huginn`       eythian: The operation succeeded.
03:43 mtompset      Okay... at least I know where I have to head with my testing and coding.
03:44 mtompset      I've got code now that using a simplesamlphp set up on the same server redirects to simplesamlphp, which does the authentication, and then it calls a backchannel (which I need to finish writing and testing) that makes the user logged in, and then redirects to the page the user sees.
03:45 mtompset      And this backchannel stuff is a pain, because of the user entry needs to be in borrowers constraint.
03:46 mtompset      I guess I'll look at the ldap log in method more closely now.
03:46 mtompset      I was looking at the persona code. I like it.
03:46 eythian       basically it's just that if the user doesn't exist, it adds it.
03:46 eythian       I haven't seen the persona code. I should have a look.
03:47 mtompset      I like the /opac/svc/login :)
03:54 mtompset      Well, I should sleep.
03:55 mtompset      Have a greet day (24 hour period), lurkers -- wizzyrea eythian dcook. :)
03:55 eythian       later
05:26 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @Tredok: "Sélection de patch à signer pour la seconde matinée de travail. J'ai encore choisi (un peu) à l'arrache ^^ https://t.co/nezFOjojKH #KohaILS"
05:50 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @Tredok: "Sélection de patchs à signer pour la seconde matinée de travail. J'ai encore choisi (un peu) à l'arrache ^^ https://t.co/Wl6dUmWfbF #KohaILS"
06:37 christophe_c  hello #koha
06:38 reiveune      hello
06:39 dcook         morning/evening :)
06:49 samueld       hi everybody :-)
06:49 jajm          hello
06:58 alex_a        hello
07:06 dcook         salut alex_a :)
07:06 alex_a        salut dcook !
07:15 gaetan_B      hello
07:17 alex_a        bonjour gaetan_B
07:19 alex_a        bonjout cait :)
07:19 cait          hi alex_a :)
07:19 alex_a        s/t/r/
07:31 drojf         good morning #koha
07:33 cait          hi drojf :)
07:34 drojf         hi cait :)
07:39 dcook         All right time to head home and spend time with loved ones!
07:39 dcook         Night everyone
07:40 cait          hm now he was gone fast
07:59 mtj           interesting -> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/take-action-for-free-javascript
08:00 mtj           https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html
08:55 rangi         Joubu: merged
08:58 cait          Joubu++ rangi++ :)
09:02 Joubu         rangi++ :)
09:10 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @BibLibre: "Au cas où vous l'auriez manqué : Nous avons traduit les notes de version de #Kohails 3.12 - https://t.co/B4GLn6XfC8"
09:11 cait          Joubu: nice idea too :)
09:58 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @Tredok: "7 patch testés : 4 signés, 3 à revoir #KohaILS"
09:59 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @Hyperboreasrl: "Sono online i video dell'evento su #KohaILS del 19 aprile. Guardateli sul nostro canale YouTube http://t.co/SbTpORGx3k"
10:42 cait          Joubu++ again for Qa :)
12:23 oleonard      Hi #koha
12:39 tcohen_       morning #koha
12:49 tcohen        do plugins work within a  package install?
13:11 tweetbot      [off] twitter: @Hyperboreasrl: "Sono online le presentazioni dei relatori dell'evento sul software #KohaILS del 19 aprile. Guardatele su Slideshare http://t.co/teuFH38Sag"
13:14 tcohen        kohacon13?
13:14 wahanui       kohacon13 is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon13_Summary
13:14 tcohen        cait: where's the registration form?
13:14 wahanui       rumour has it the registration form is online :)
13:15 tcohen        jcamins?
13:15 wahanui       i think jcamins is a spoilsport
13:16 druthb        tcohen?
13:16 wahanui       tcohen is 120
13:16 druthb        !
13:16 druthb        wahanui:  no, tcohen is awesome^2!
13:16 wahanui       ...but tcohen is 120...
13:17 tcohen        wahanui: tcohen is 122
13:17 wahanui       ...but tcohen is 120...
13:17 tcohen        wahanui: forget tcohen is 120
13:17 wahanui       tcohen, I didn't have anything matching tcohen is 120
13:17 oleonard      wahanui: forget tcohen
13:17 wahanui       oleonard: I forgot tcohen
13:17 tcohen        hmm
13:17 tcohen        wahanui: tcohen is 122
13:17 wahanui       OK, tcohen.
13:17 * druthb      chuckles.
13:17 druthb        wahanui:  druthb?
13:17 wahanui       Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
13:18 druthb        :)
13:18 tcohen        i need to register for kohacon
13:19 druthb        http://koha-community.org/kohacon/kohacon13/registration/
13:19 druthb        you're gonna be there, tcohen?
13:20 tcohen        got my visa yesterday
13:20 tcohen        my boss said he'll try to pay for it
13:20 druthb        woo hoo!  One more reason for me to be glad I'm going.
13:20 tcohen        are people sharing rooms?
13:21 tcohen        are there available rooms still?
13:21 druthb        I've not heard a lot of talk about sharing rooms, so I don't know.
13:21 druthb        I would imagine rooms are still available.
13:23 druthb        if not, we can always blame cait.
13:23 cait          huh?
13:23 druthb        (it's what she gets for not paying attention.)
13:24 drojf         i think we are still in the "we need more room reservations to get the free conference room" phase
13:24 druthb        hi, cait!   did you see the news?  tcohen is coming to KohaCon!
13:24 cait          http://koha-community.org/kohacon/kohacon13/registration/
13:24 tcohen        do I need to put some group code or something?
13:24 * oleonard    shakes his fist at this JavaScript
13:24 druthb        hi, oleonard and rambutan!
13:25 druthb        oooh….two Gregs.  FTW.
13:25 drojf         tcohen: looks like there is a code in the link
13:25 cait          tcohen: the link from the wiki page has the code
13:25 druthb        rambutan/rhcl:  Either of you going to KohaCon?
13:25 cait          you can also see it in the url
13:25 cait          :)
13:25 drojf         [off] https://www.reserveparadise.com/cgi-bin/lansaweb?procfun+rn+resnet+atl+funcparms+UP(A2560):;SKOHACN;101513;8;1;0;005005;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;R;;;;;?
13:25 cait          i haven't booked the hotel yet
13:25 cait          if you want to share room - why not try a mail to the mailinglist?
13:26 cait          someone might be interested
13:26 cait          yep SKOHACN
13:27 tcohen        rooms have a single king size bed
13:27 tcohen        guess will make it difficult
13:27 oleonard      It's okay we all like each other here ;)
13:28 cait          i think you can also pick queen? beds
13:28 drojf         i like the "there is a fee so you don't have to pay an additional charge" part. lol
13:29 cait          tcohen: just add the code manually and pick queen beds in one of the cheaper towers
13:29 tcohen        nope, only king sized rooms appear
13:30 cait          try to go from the normal booking page
13:30 cait          not using the link
13:30 cait          add the offer/group code i gave above
13:30 cait          i think that shoudl work, it does for me
13:30 tcohen        i like king beds anyway :-P
13:32 drojf         cait: i only see king beds when i enter the code. and only the higher priced room types
13:32 cait          ok, off to clean the rest of the apartment... i am having guests for a long weekend :)
13:32 cait          oh yes
13:32 cait          you are right
13:32 cait          hm
13:32 drojf         i'd go with a tent
13:32 cait          lol
13:33 drojf         and put up the tent next to tcohen's king bed lol
13:33 tcohen        ok, i'll book on monday
13:34 oleonard      If firebug tells my my variable is an object with all the properties I expect it to have, why does console.log(obj.property) say "undefined" ?
13:34 cait          because...
13:34 cait          excuse?
13:34 wahanui       cait: The server at bofh.engr.wisc.edu (port 666) appears to be down.
13:34 cait          excuse?
13:34 wahanui       cait: The server at bofh.engr.wisc.edu (port 666) appears to be down.
13:34 cait          hm
13:34 cait          i'd go with sun spots in that case
13:35 druthb        I was thinking of driving, maybe….but 1,914 miles (3,080 km)…and the whole first *day* of driving would be in the Texas desert country—and it gets worse from there….  uhm.
13:35 druthb        I'm by-definition crazy, but I'm not *that* kind of crazy.
13:36 drojf         druthb: why would you drive a way like that??
13:36 drojf         you really love road trips?
13:37 druthb        That's also…uhm….6 tanks of fuel, each way, which, at current prices, is about $250 each way.  Plane tix are about the same.
13:37 cait          yeah and you'd need to sleep and eat on the way ...
13:37 druthb        I do, actually, drojf…but that one would be especially gruelling.
13:37 cait          and you'd be exhausted
13:37 druthb        yah.
13:37 drojf         sleep through kohacon, drive back
13:37 oleonard      On the other hand if you take the plane you'll miss out on all that west Texas AM radio
13:38 druthb        I lived out there for 20 years, oleonard.  Had 'nuf of that, thanks.
13:38 druthb        I haz iPod.  And my car haz iPod connector built-in.
13:42 drojf         it's only a 10 hours drive, if you got a really fast car :P
13:42 druthb        Ooooh, fancy.  A note just handed to me, an invitation to a new-hire Meet and Greet dinner with le CEO, at a fancy restaurant near here in a couple of weeks.  Paper note, in an envelope, fancy vellum paper…   "The favor of a reply is requested…"
13:42 druthb        drojf:  28 hours, with our speed limits (even though the ones out west keep going up and up and up, it's not an Autobahn.)
13:44 drojf         as long as you are faster than the police, speed limits don't matter
13:44 drojf         <-- don't take advice from this person
13:44 druthb        There's about a 650 km stretch in west TX, where the speed limit is 80 mph/130 kph, but that's as fast as it gets, anywhere in America.
13:45 tcohen        is it real what we see in the movies, that once you change state the policy can't get you?
13:45 tcohen        then drojf is right :-D
13:45 drojf         tcohen: but druthb probably wants to go back too :D
13:45 druthb        See, there's the rub, drojf.  Our cops in Texas, particularly the Highway Patrol, drive extremely high-performance cars.  You're *not* faster than them, almost guaranteed.
13:46 drojf         only one way… steal a police car
13:46 oleonard      If there's any public infrastructure we'll pay for in America, it's toys for the police.
13:46 druthb        tcohen: correct, unless you're being chased by federal police (the FBI).  But the states *do* collaborate and cooperate, to some extent.
13:46 tcohen        you need to get a D'elorean druthb
13:47 druthb        heh.
13:47 druthb        Way too fast for my blood.  I'm old and boring; I top out about 120 kph, before I chicken out.
13:49 tcohen        hmm,  i reached 205kph when I got my new car for a 'speed limit test'
13:49 druthb        I was fairly satisfied when the national speed limit was 65 mph/105 kph.  Faster than that is occasionally nice, out in the boonies.
13:49 tcohen        but its not a car anyone should drive at that speed
13:50 druthb        The interstate between here and Dallas is now mostly 70/75 mph…that's a nice run.
13:50 druthb        about four hours, and you're there.
13:51 tcohen        magnus_away: around?
13:52 tcohen        bug 9890
13:52 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9890 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Fix the new plugin system for package installs
13:52 tcohen        what car do u own druthb?
13:54 druthb        A 2011 Nissan Sentra.
13:55 jenkins_koha  Starting build #48 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:18 tcohen        nice druthb
14:19 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: bug 9505 refactor loops in invoices.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e294defc299e97fe5e1ecfdeb648e8f8f080f5f5>
14:35 tcohen        gmcharlt: 9507
14:36 gmcharlt      tcohen: ?
14:36 tcohen        is a bugfix, with enough refactoring to be considered an enh?
14:36 jenkins_koha  Project Koha_3.12.x build #48: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/48/
14:36 jenkins_koha  Robin Sheat: Bug 10367 - [3.12] update the rules and control file for wheezy
14:36 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Allow packages to work on debian wheezy
14:38 jenkins_koha  Starting build #1209 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:38 gmcharlt      tcohen: that one is pure refactoring; no need to push it unless a later bugfix you want to push depends on it
14:51 oleonard      Can someone please give an educated answer to the "Zebra Indexing problem with upgrade" mailing list question so that paul.a doesn't have the last word?
15:09 adam_m        Hello
15:11 reiveune      bye
15:12 pianohacker   good morning
15:18 druthb        hi, pianohacker! :)
15:19 pianohacker   hey druthb
15:27 adam_m        Hello, I have been playing around with the settings of koha, it still seems that though I can check out books there is no way that I can place a hold on a book, I've looked and checked to make sure there wasnt some sort of setting that was stopping from doing so in the patrons category as well as checking to make sure that there was no rule against it in the circulation rules as well
15:28 gaetan_B      bye !
15:38 oleonard      adam_m: Still around?
15:39 oleonard      adam_m: Do you have a default circulation rule set up?
15:40 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8845: FIX dateonly is the 4th parameter, not 3rd! <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d1817ab92d1dcc5d96180e65563db64469090fe4> / Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth - Add tooltip <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f744c863c3db12cc8676c7d29a6711cdc3cc4681> / Bug 8845: Followup Allow to give a date using the syspref format <http://git.koha-com
15:52 huginn`       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10381: Followup adding some text around Apply/cancel filter. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=600eff7827be1c396e7ea13cd7c7159003d6c794> / Bug 10381: POD lines of GetBasketsInfosByBookseller <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5bf996f68d2279ae9582b338b3d094ad20f7596c>
15:52 jenkins_koha  Project Koha_master build #1209: SUCCESS in 1 hr 15 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1209/
15:52 jenkins_koha  Colin Campbell: bug 9505 refactor loops in invoices.pl
15:52 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9505 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , acqui/invoices.pl contains an unnecessary loop
15:54 jenkins_koha  Starting build #1210 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:55 adam_m        oleanard: yeah im still here sorry
16:04 tcohen        set expandtab
16:04 tcohen        set softtabstop=4
16:04 tcohen        set shiftwidth=4
16:04 tcohen        set nocul cul
16:04 tcohen        set nonu nu
16:04 tcohen        oops
16:06 gmcharlt      :)
16:07 tcohen        now everyone knows I use mcedit :-P
16:28 adam_m        <oleonard> yes i did also put in default circulation rules
16:29 oleonard      adam_m:  AllowOnShelfHolds system preference is set to "allow" ?
16:32 drojf         d'oh. anscheinend gibts ein seminar "modeling lexical data" bei den germanisten. hätte das magisterbegleitend gut gepasst
16:32 drojf         hmpf
16:32 drojf         wrong window
16:33 adam_m        <oleonard> I was looking for that setting. where is that located
16:33 oleonard      adam_m: Administration -> System preferences. You can search by preference name.
16:36 adam_m        <oleonard> sweet. Alright it seems to work, I feel a little silly for not looking there earlier, thanks for the help!
16:37 adam_m        <oleonard> Everything else works perfectly as well. Ready to deploy to the schools now :)
16:37 oleonard      adam_m: Getting holds working trips up a lot of people, including me
16:39 pianohacker   tcohen: wait, http://www.mcedit.net/ ?
16:42 adam_m        <oleonard> there is one particularly odd thing however. seems like that if i search for something and produce a number of results I am able to easily check off whatever items and hold them however if i search something and go directly to a result because there is only one, then I cannot do so
16:45 adam_m        <oleonard> ah never mind just in a different place
17:10 gmcharlt      @quote random
17:10 huginn`       gmcharlt: Quote #14: "joetho: I only looked for missing ccodes- not dysfunctional orphans." (added by wizzyrea at 08:31 PM, July 09, 2009)
17:12 jenkins_koha  Project Koha_master build #1210: SUCCESS in 1 hr 18 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1210/
17:12 jenkins_koha  * Kyle M Hall: Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth
17:12 jenkins_koha  * Jonathan Druart: Bug 8845: Followup Allow to give a date using the syspref format
17:12 jenkins_koha  * Kyle M Hall: Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth - Add tooltip
17:12 jenkins_koha  * Jonathan Druart: Bug 8845: FIX dateonly is the 4th parameter, not 3rd!
17:12 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8845 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Add ability search patrons by date of birth
17:12 jenkins_koha  * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10381: POD lines of GetBasketsInfosByBookseller
17:12 jenkins_koha  * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10381: Followup adding some text around Apply/cancel filter.
17:12 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10381 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Hide basket links should be improved
17:27 tcohen        pianohacker: heh, no, I meant the text editor that ships with mc, it was a joke anyway, as I accidentaly pasted some of my Vim settings
17:30 pianohacker   ah, okay! that makes a lot more sense than a minecraft world editor having a tabstop option :)
17:31 tcohen        https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
17:31 tcohen        just closed bug #1
17:31 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1 major, P2, ---, chris, CLOSED FIXED, Missing uploadedmarc table definition
17:31 pianohacker   heh, yup. reddit was in a tizzy about that this morning
17:32 pianohacker   haha, thanks huginn`
17:33 gmcharlt      @later tell magnuse I'd like to draw your attention to bug 10218 -- I'm assuming that the same changes ought to be made to the NORMARC stylesheets
17:33 huginn`       gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
17:40 pianohacker   hey, #koha. any large #koha libraries out there with z39.50 I could use for (low-load) testing?
17:41 pianohacker   ... whose records are a bit less ... sparse than the LOC's? :)
17:41 gmcharlt      LC has sparse records?
17:42 * gmcharlt    would have expected the vast majority of their available records to be fairly complete
17:42 jcamins       gmcharlt: not via Z39.50.
17:42 pianohacker   not horribly. There are a few nice things that are missing, though, like 100 tags
17:42 gmcharlt      er, what?
17:43 jcamins       Their Z39.50 database includes a lot more records than they export to OCLC.
17:43 jcamins       And most of those records are seemingly woefully inadequate.
17:43 * gmcharlt    blinks
17:44 jcamins       That was my response when I was told that, too.
17:45 jcamins       (and it wasn't by pianohacker... a cataloger at NYU mentioned this to me in passing)
17:45 pianohacker   jcamins: that explains a lot of the weirdness I'm seeing
17:45 druthb        @quote random
17:45 huginn`       druthb: Quote #7: "Snow_Fox: a rift opens in space the information is shuffled to dev_hyperspace rift then closes" (added by wizzyrea at 03:28 PM, June 18, 2009)
17:45 gmcharlt      pianohacker: do you have any specific records handy?
17:45 pianohacker   gmcharlt: a bevy of them, let me try to get some urls
17:45 jcamins       gmcharlt: I am okay with Koha::MetadataRecord.
17:46 jcamins       I'll redo the follow-up this evening.
17:46 gmcharlt      jcamins: thanks
17:46 gmcharlt      and sorry to be a pain about it, but I generally prefer to tackle naming for new modules before they get added
17:47 jcamins       But I definitely don't like Koha::MARC::Record, because one of my goals with the refactor was to make it trivial to add merging non-MARC fielded record types.
17:48 jcamins       If, you know, there was some way to have a non-MARC fielded record.
17:49 gmcharlt      jcamins: well, that at least will happen in some form for 3.14
17:51 pianohacker   gmcharlt: here's an example: http://www.loc.gov/cgi-bin/zgate?present+9543744+Default+1+1+M+1.2.840.10003.5.10+2+/cgi-bin/zgate?ACTION=INIT&FORM_HOST_PORT=/prod/www/data/z3950/locils1.html,z3950.loc.gov,7090
17:51 pianohacker   (apologies for the url)
17:52 tcohen        pianohacker: http://blogs.unc.edu.ar/koha/lang/es/2011/03/30/lista-de-servidores-z39-50-de-la-uncuncs-z39-50-servers-list/
17:52 gmcharlt      pianohacker: I think that is session-specific
17:52 gmcharlt      i.e., doesn't work for me
17:52 jcamins       That link doesn't work.. What is the 010?
17:52 tcohen        bmayor should have better records, FFyH also
17:53 pianohacker   curses, sorry. There are some records that only seem to show through certain search interfaces
17:53 pianohacker   no 010, but it has a 035 of 96518898
17:54 jcamins       No 010? Wow, that _is_ a defective record.
17:54 pianohacker   tcohen++
17:54 pianohacker   here, I'll pastebin it
17:54 pastebot      "pianohacker" at pasted "weird LOC record" (27 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/29
17:56 druthb        Looks like an auto-generated record based on stuff from the Copyright Office, not something they actually handled and cataloged.
17:56 jcamins       Yeah.
17:56 druthb        Their records on serial romance are like that, too…kinda short; they may get the data directly from publishers.
17:57 gmcharlt      encoding level = 5 (from the Leader/17), meaning partial (preliminary record)
17:58 pianohacker   that would make sense. Is there a better server for LOC, or a search term that could filter based on leader/17?
17:58 pianohacker   using lx2.loc.gov/LCDB at the moment
17:58 gmcharlt      pianohacker: well, LC also has a *ton* of fully fleshed out records; so I guess I'd have to ask ... what are you trying to do, specifically?
17:59 jcamins       I think LC supports record level.
17:59 pianohacker   gmcharlt: Working on some pazpar2-based external search
17:59 jcamins       You'd just have to look up the attribute.
17:59 gmcharlt      jcamins: not so sure, alas - http://www.loc.gov/z3950/lcserver.html#usea
18:00 jcamins       Eww. Didn't they use to?
18:02 tcohen        i'm not sure bug 6413 is working
18:02 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6413 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Notes in Fines doing wonky things
18:03 tcohen        i'm not used to the accountlines table, but the note I wrote is not on the table, or shown anywhere
18:03 jcamins       gmcharlt: aside from name, does my follow-up on 9755 address your concerns?
18:06 gmcharlt      looks like the 999 check has gone away entirely?
18:06 jcamins       Yeah.
18:06 jcamins       It was not actually necessary.
18:06 gmcharlt      IIRC, that matches previous behavior, so yes, I think the follow-up addresses that
18:07 jcamins       Okay. I'll rename the class tonight, then.
18:09 talljoy       good afternoon!  anyone familiar with bulkmarcimport.pl?  i am feeding it a marc file of 119K marc authority records and it is 'loading' over 200K marc authority records for me.  normal?
18:10 jcamins       Not at all, if there are really only 119k auth records.
18:10 talljoy       ikr, weird?
18:10 gmcharlt      pianohacker: it looks like some filtering could be done via use attribute 56 (code institution) and excluding "amim" as a source
18:11 gmcharlt      but unfortunately, not seeing any documented attributes that support directly filtering on the encoding level
18:11 talljoy       it have verified that i only have 119K records in the file and it appears to be reading biblio marc records during the import.  "....Bad MARC record 208719: blah blah blah"......
18:11 talljoy       so it is autocreating authorities for me, which is very generous, but totally unwanted behavior.
18:11 pianohacker   gmcharlt: okay, cool. Thanks
18:12 jcamins       talljoy: bulkmarcimport shouldn't be doing anything like that, so far as I know.
18:13 jcamins       It does not in any way interface with the auth linker code.
18:13 talljoy       this is very odd indeed. and i have seen this on other loads lately as well.
18:13 jcamins       What version, out of curiosity?
18:15 talljoy       3.10.3
18:15 jcamins       No idea. You could try stage_file.
18:16 drojf         i blame cleanup_database.pl. it does surprise upgrades too
18:16 * drojf       hides
18:19 talljoy       i'm going to try that too.  i also suspect some inaccuracies in their mrc authority data quite honestly
18:20 jcamins       talljoy: and you used marclint or something like that to confirm that there really were 119k records, right?
18:20 talljoy       well i used marcedit and it says 119K records, but the last record is cut off.  so i suspect a bad mrc file that is not opening completely in marcedit.
18:22 jcamins       "I'm not running the Zebra daemon" <-- huh?
18:23 pianohacker   NoZebra? happy fun times
18:24 jcamins       pianohacker: not in 3.12!
18:24 jcamins       Nor 3.10, for that matter.
18:24 jcamins       Nor 3.8, come to that.
18:24 tcohen        Nor 3.6 or 3.4
18:24 pianohacker   oh thank goodness, didn't know it had been deprecated that long ago
18:25 jcamins       tcohen: but it was only deprecated in 3.4 and 3.6. Not removed.
18:25 tcohen        yes
18:25 pianohacker   although come to think of it, you don't need zebra for circ, so he could have just disabled it to eliminate a cause
18:26 jcamins       True.
18:34 tcohen        we should have added that while(true){malloc} line to the circulation.pl script
18:34 tcohen        s/should/shouldn't/
18:38 pianohacker   that the datas tructure with a k20 complete graph maaaaaaay be our downfall
18:38 jcamins       That what?
18:38 wahanui       That is a good idea.
18:39 pianohacker   graph theory babbling
18:40 druthb        wahanui:  botsnack Gatorade
18:40 wahanui       thanks druthb :)
18:41 * jcamins     realizes that "tructure" is not a verb.
18:43 gmcharlt      tructure (v): to construct buildings with the aid of a truck
18:44 pianohacker   ah, sorry. irc over laggy ssh
18:44 jcamins       Ditto.
18:44 druthb        druthbsnack tres leches cake  :)
18:44 pianohacker   "well billy bob I think we done did tructured it"
18:49 maximep       frustration of the day: bug 10096
18:49 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10096 new feature, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Add a Z39.50 interface for authority searching
18:49 maximep       we did the exact same thing 2 years ago, but could never share it
18:49 maximep       -_-
18:50 pianohacker   maximep: ?
18:50 jcamins       maximep: that's why contributing code is not optional in my contracts.
18:51 pianohacker   I've done work for certain clients under NDAs (never again), was that your situation?
18:54 maximep       I won't get into details, but yeah, it sucks
18:55 maximep       to work using only open source tech, but tu never have time to share stuff
18:55 pianohacker   sorry to hear that
19:00 maximep       bug 8337. Aren't sysprefs automatically added to the db when they don't existe ?
19:00 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8337 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Failed QA , System preferences for longoverdue cron
19:00 jcamins       No.
19:00 maximep       huh
19:01 pianohacker   maximep: the sysprefs interface will though
19:02 maximep       pretty sure you only need to add it to the .pref if you dont need a default value
19:02 maximep       ah yes, that's what I meant
19:03 pianohacker   weeeeell, you should explicitly add it to both, as the type and options fields are important
19:03 jcamins       Yes.
19:03 pianohacker   you mainly need to make sure that the type field is set to YesNo if it's a boolean field, to ensure it's intepreted and saved correctly
19:04 pianohacker   plus having a description field is a nice thing for people working in the DB :)
19:05 jcamins       Plus, it's required to get into Koha.
19:05 jcamins       :)
19:05 maximep       alright :P
19:05 maximep       noted for future patches =)
19:06 pianohacker   so, it's an official requirement that has a number of good reasons behind it :)
19:10 gmcharlt      and will remain so unless somebody wants to add a bit more metadata to the *.pref files and writing a sync_stock_prefs() routine
19:10 gmcharlt      which might be nice for DRY
19:11 jcamins       And if you decide to work on that, consider replacing YAML::Syck.
19:11 maximep       great idea
19:11 pianohacker   that's an excellent idea
19:11 jcamins       The POD says "DO NOT USE THIS MODULE."
19:11 maximep       bwahaha
19:11 maximep       hmmm search.cpan isnt working
19:12 pianohacker   Hahaha, yeah. Your choice is between YAML::Syck, which is old and twitchy, and YAML::PP, which is _crap_ at interpreting types in YAML correctly
19:13 pianohacker   I'd be quite happy to find out that other alternatives have been made
19:13 jcamins       YAML::XS?
19:13 jcamins       Pretty sure that's what the POD recommends.
19:13 pianohacker   I _think_ that had the same problems, but let me check again
19:14 jcamins       I prefer JSON, though. It's way faster.
19:14 gmcharlt      but tends to be less great for cases where we expect humans to write it
19:15 pianohacker   excactly
19:15 jcamins       gmcharlt: You can write it formatted exactly the same as YAML, no?
19:15 pianohacker   jcamins: somewhat. the syntax is clunkier, though
19:16 jcamins       I understood that JSON was a superset of JAYAML.
19:16 gmcharlt      and most JSON tools don't pretty-print by default (for obvious reasons)
19:16 jcamins       s/JAYAML/YAML/
19:16 gmcharlt      jcamins: other way around, I think
19:16 pianohacker   my understanding was the opposite
19:16 jcamins       gmcharlt: ohhhh.
19:16 jcamins       That clarifies why YAML is slower.
19:17 * druthb      extends YAML::Syck; she is old and twitchy, too
19:17 gmcharlt      :)
19:17 jcamins       I always thought it was kind of dumb to use algorithms on a subset that were slower than those that handled the more general case.
19:18 jcamins       And by "always," I mean "it crossed my mind once, briefly, when someone said 'let's use YAML/JSON for koha-conf.xml'"
19:19 pianohacker   Truthfully, given how simple _koha's_ requirements are for koha-conf.xml, then thing could be an INI
19:20 pianohacker   zebra's the main reason for it being the size, shape and format it is, afaik
19:20 gmcharlt      pianohacker: eh, and that really was by happensance
19:21 gmcharlt      there's actually no particular reason why the main Zebra config file needs to also store Koha's base config settings
19:22 gmcharlt      for what Koha itself needs, you really could get away with plain old INI
19:22 gmcharlt      ;)
19:23 pianohacker   gmcharlt: the only thing I  can think of is that it allows us the cool trick of storing the zebra username/password in only one place
19:23 gmcharlt      no great loss if we have to store it twice
19:24 pianohacker   yeah
19:55 rangi         anyone got a sec to sanity check somethign for me?
19:55 gmcharlt      sure
19:55 oleonard      It's okay rangi I see the pink elephants too
19:56 rangi         http://demo-intra.mykoha.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/circ/circulation-home.pl
19:56 rangi         user:staff
19:56 rangi         pass:staff1
19:57 rangi         sheri turner for a borrwer, and testcard for a barcode .. it feels plenty snappy to me?
19:57 rangi         prolly laggier to you on the other side of the net
19:57 rangi         but not 30seconds?
19:58 oleonard      No, maybe 3 seconds for me
19:58 bag           yeah was snappy here too
19:58 rangi         (its a single cpu 2500 mhz with 1gig of ram)
19:58 rangi         running stock debian squeeze and stock 3.12.0 package
19:59 bag           curlload it :)
19:59 rangi         sorry, 10gig
19:59 rangi         i cant read without coffee :)
20:00 jcamins       Does anyone else get stopped short by CPU speeds?
20:00 bag           yeah 10gig will be quick
20:00 bag           jcamins I've seen it yes
20:01 jcamins       bag: no, I mean the numbers.
20:01 jcamins       "2500 mhz"
20:01 drojf         "so the 2 differences are Ubuntu and the LiveDVD" … *whistles in an unsuspicious way*
20:01 jcamins       That's freaking *fast*.
20:01 rangi         but yeah its not a super box by even the slightest stretch of the imagination
20:01 jcamins       I remember 33Mhz seeming fast.
20:01 rangi         its running about 12 koha instances too
20:02 rangi         thanks
20:03 rangi         there is a benchmarc_circulation.pl that with some hacking mostly works
20:03 rangi         i might try benchmarking the same db on a few different versions over the weekend
20:03 rangi         but probably not
20:03 rangi         cos its ataraus party tomorrow
20:04 bag           is this your new home server?  Or did you abandon that idea and host everything
20:04 bag           yay Maui sighting right?
20:06 rangi         no thats a catalyst one
20:06 gmcharlt      rangi: my suspicion, albeit one without any real basis at the moment, is that it might be data dependent
20:06 rangi         http://demo.mykoha.co.nz/
20:06 gmcharlt      i.e. some quirk of their circ policies causing a busy-wait loop
20:07 rangi         gmcharlt: could be, but if the same data on 3.10.x .. that would be less likely, i guess it might be different data though
20:07 rangi         bag: yep got a maui sighting
20:08 rangi         i wonder if im the only one who is comfortable with no plugin repository, or one that says, 'we provide no, none, nada, assurance of the qualtity of any of these, use totally at your own risk'
20:08 rangi         cos frankly the QA team has more than enough work already
20:09 * jcamins     is comfortable with no plugin registry.
20:09 jcamins       Provide a place people can upload plugins to, maybe, with the explicit note that none of them are supported by anyone other than the plugin's author, and don't count on that either.
20:09 rangi         yep, just like wordpress
20:10 gmcharlt      rangi: my fear with that is that without an official repo, anything calling itself a Koha plugin that is malicious or simply badly written reflects back on us
20:10 oleonard      How do we provide a place for uploads without suggesting that they are at least somewhat official?
20:10 gmcharlt      no matter how much we disclaim responsibility
20:10 jcamins       gmcharlt: well, that cat's out of the bag, short of you reverting the plugin host.
20:11 jcamins       oleonard: separate website?
20:11 bag           I know that nengard and khall are working on plugin host
20:11 rangi         i guess if a bunch of people want to volunteer to do plugin qa, then it might be workable, but i fear it will drain our already thin testing resources
20:11 jcamins       bag: I'm not proposing that the plugin code should be removed! I bent my own rules to get it in!
20:11 bag           at least one that we could offer…  and I'd be willing to offer that we QA those
20:11 jcamins       Oh, wait.
20:12 jcamins       You meant host as in server.
20:12 jcamins       I meant host as in "code that will run plugins."
20:12 bag           jcamins: same
20:12 bag           we'd be willing to QA those - no problem
20:13 gmcharlt      bag: and along with that, promise to not allow plugins to become a way to slip stuff past the core QA radar?
20:13 bag           gmcharlt: totally agree
20:14 bag           plugins for us = some odd thing that would never ever make sense to write something for koha - becuase there is only one person on the world that would want it
20:14 bag           if there are two people that want - I believe in a patch for koha
20:16 bag           it's also pretty rad for reports
20:17 bag           so far we do have one good script for it - that rolls hard-due-dates forward
20:17 rangi         i figure we'd have to elect a plugin QA team
20:17 rangi         if the community is going to assert anything
20:18 bag           that's fine with me - we'll volunteer for it - until you get someone outside bywater that wants to do it - and we'll pass it on :)
20:18 rangi         same rules should apply of course
20:18 rangi         you cant qa your own work
20:19 rangi         or whats the point?
20:19 wahanui       the point is not that the koha-community write a page about there software and the PTFS people write a page about there's. the point is that we have useful, informative content about the software and it's history and that anything controversial is closely referenced
20:19 gmcharlt      bag: one of the points, as far as I'm concerned, would be ensuring that if it happens, it happens as a broadly-shared community effort
20:19 rangi         lol
20:19 rangi         wahanui forget the point
20:19 wahanui       rangi: I forgot point
20:19 rangi         whats the point?
20:20 bag           yeah I totally agree - I am not disagreing with anyone :)  -- I'm just saying we are willing to help out to get the ball rolling
20:20 bag           there is no reason to pull plugins - it's disabled by default
20:21 gmcharlt      bag: the mere existence of the feature has consequences that I wish had been planned for a bit more in advance; but at least we're having the discussion now
20:22 rangi         right kids to school
20:22 rangi         bbl
20:22 bag           I'm getting a little frustrated at the moment - I'll be back later… before I say something dumb
20:23 bag           well normally I say dumb things - before I say dumbass things :P
20:23 gmcharlt      bag: well one thing to keep in mind, there is no serious proposal to actually revert the feature
20:23 rangi         ftr im way more happy with saying using at your risk, but ill live with a robust qa process as second best option
21:04 rangi         back
21:19 tcohen        hi rangi
21:20 rangi         heya tcohen
21:20 rangi         i sent a sample invitation letter
21:20 rangi         so hopefully you will get one :)
21:21 tcohen        i got it, thanks
21:21 rangi         yay!
21:21 tcohen        actually, I got my visa yesterday
21:21 rangi         excellent
21:21 pianohacker   phew, have swap and btrfs autodefrag in place, hopefully things will stop exploding
21:22 tcohen        i'm in talks with my boss to get the money soon and book for kohacon
21:24 rangi         one of the guys at work had 2 btrfs fails in 2 days
21:24 rangi         he's sworn off it
21:24 rangi         pianohacker: backups :)
21:24 pianohacker   hahaha, yes. what do you use for backups, btw?
21:25 * Dyrcona     has heard nothing good about btrfs.....
21:25 pianohacker   I use it for the high write performance on an SSD with LZO compression, but it is a bit twitchy
21:25 rangi         pianohacker: obnam
21:26 rangi         http://liw.fi/obnam/
21:26 gmcharlt      liw++
21:26 rangi         the thing i like is you just need somewhere you can ssh to, to back up to it
21:27 rangi         The backup server, if used, does not require any special software, on top of SSH.  <-- made of win
21:27 pianohacker   oh hey, that's right, lars
21:27 pianohacker   this does look nice, simple enough to work consistently
21:28 pianohacker   dejadup is sexy but all kinds of frustrating to actually use
21:28 rangi         i finally fixed the ubunut ppa too
21:28 pianohacker   well, debian has an up-to-date package, no excuse not to use it :)
21:28 liw           ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:29 pianohacker   hahahaha
21:29 pianohacker   hey lars
21:29 pianohacker   I'm thinking of using obnam
21:29 * liw         waves, on the way to bed
21:29 pianohacker   any reason i shouldn't? ;)
21:29 liw           pianohacker, it's written by a lunatic lazy person, but ask rangi, he's less biased than I am
21:30 pianohacker   hahaha, k. thanks, good night
21:30 pianohacker   rangi: so yeah, obnam looks like the bee's knees. any twitchyness or reasons to be careful with it?
21:30 pianohacker   and it's written in Python! yay!
21:32 rangi         pianohacker: you can chat to eythian when he gets in too, he uses it as well
21:33 pianohacker   will do
21:38 rangi         hmm that report on bug 7973 sounds nasty
21:38 huginn`       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7973 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Allow for new type of LDAP authentication
21:41 gmcharlt      rangi: agreed
21:41 gmcharlt      hmm
21:41 gmcharlt      I'm feeling a bit of inspiration to put up an LDAP directory on foo.koha-community.org
21:41 wizzyrea      @quote add <liw>  ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:41 huginn`       wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
21:42 wizzyrea      @quote add <liw>  ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:42 huginn`       wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #254 added.
21:42 wizzyrea      ^.^
21:42 gmcharlt      can't run active directory, of course, but having a stable directory to test against would be golden
21:50 rangi         *nod*
21:50 rangi         jenkins could test against it
21:51 rangi         if we had ldap, we could even seed it with some real data
21:51 rangi         like galen charlton, release manager :)
21:52 rangi         and then libravatar
21:52 cjh           heh
21:53 rangi         then our own idp for persona
21:53 cjh           ldap jenkins testing would be sweet
21:54 * rangi       wanders off on a tangent
21:55 wizzyrea      lol
21:55 wizzyrea      if you think of things to stash on there, that's fine by me
21:55 wizzyrea      maybe linode will upgrade my server someday
21:57 rangi         http://ratings.koha-community.org/
21:57 rangi         is coming along
21:57 rangi         the infrastructure is all done, you can add a url fetch ratings blah blah
21:57 rangi         (thats what im doing on my linode at the mo)
21:58 rangi         i just have to add lots more words
21:58 rangi         and then send the patch for the export bit for koha
21:58 rangi         http://ratings.koha-community.org/add_site
21:58 rangi         whats a better license than blah blah
21:59 gmcharlt      CC0
21:59 rangi         yeah, i think that would work
22:09 eythian       hi
22:09 wahanui       hey, eythian
22:14 pianohacker   hey eythian
22:15 talljoy_DND   is jcamins still here?
22:16 talljoy_DND   @later tell jcamins can you tell me what this error means when the link_bibs_to_authorities.pl runs?  Can't call method "field" on an undefined value at /home/load12/kohaclone/C4/AuthoritiesMarc.pm line 1194.  thanks!
22:16 huginn`       talljoy_DND: The operation succeeded.
22:17 rangi         talljoy_DND: invalid biblio or authority
22:17 rangi         means the $record is undefined
22:17 talljoy_DND   well yes, but i wonder which biblio or authority.
22:17 rangi         you'll have to add debugging to find that out
22:17 talljoy_DND   if biblio i know which one, but if it's an authority records, i'm not sure how to track it down.  and i am running it on debug unless there is a more robust debug
22:17 rangi         its going to be specific to your data
22:18 rangi         no, you will have to add warns
22:18 rangi         to output the id numbers
22:18 talljoy_DND   that's along the lines of what i was thinking i'd have to do.
22:19 rangi         it could also be a biblio or auth record that as been deleted
22:19 rangi         but is still in zebra
22:19 rangi         what i would do tho
22:20 rangi         is find the 2 places it creates the records (auth and biblio)
22:20 rangi         and do
22:20 rangi         if (! $record) { die $idnumber; }
22:20 rangi         (with correct variable names)
22:20 rangi         then it will die at the bad record
22:28 jcamins       talljoy_DND: basically what rangi said.
22:28 talljoy_DND   so place these warns in the link_bibs_to_authorities.pl script somewhere.
22:29 rangi         yep
22:30 talljoy_DND   i'll give it a whirl and hope i put i get it right the first time!  ;-)
22:32 wizzyrea      if at first you don't succeed.
22:32 wizzyrea      whinge a bit and try again.
22:32 gmcharlt      heh
22:33 wizzyrea      i find whinging essential to my process :P
22:33 wizzyrea      "if I could only make it do this thing wah wah wah ... oh."
22:35 gmcharlt      whinges == itches? :)
22:36 wizzyrea      whinging = whining
23:09 pianohacker_D wizzyrea: Like a less trolly version of http://bash.org/?152037 ?
23:11 cjh           heh awesome
23:11 pianohacker_D except most people in here are level-headed enough that it would backfire
23:12 wizzyrea      hm no I could see that working.
23:12 pianohacker_D "Koha can't make circulation rules that vary by phase of the moon!"
23:12 pianohacker_D "Well... yeah..."
23:12 wizzyrea      "voyager does it"
23:12 wizzyrea      EFF THAT LET"S DO IT
23:12 wizzyrea      :P
23:12 wizzyrea      ;)
23:12 cjh           it could, and for a small down payment...
23:12 wizzyrea      kekekeke
23:12 pianohacker_D wizzyrea: oh god that version could work...
23:13 pianohacker_D substitute unicorn, iii or llek depending on what mood you're in that day
23:14 wizzyrea      it might not work on me "well voyager is bad and you should feel bad for using it."
23:14 pianohacker_D grumpy, trickstery or "some men just want to watch the #koha burn"
23:14 wizzyrea      :P
23:15 pianohacker_D "well, maybe I'll switch back to a _real_ ILS instead of this open-source stuff that's against capitalism!"
23:15 wizzyrea      "good riddance.
23:15 * wizzyrea    is not terribly sympathetic.
23:15 trea          !
23:15 pianohacker_D heh well yeah, that's what /kickban is made for :)
23:15 wizzyrea      ^.^
23:16 pianohacker_D "trea kicked by wizzyrea (You forgot to fold the laundry!)"
23:16 wizzyrea      !
23:16 trea          what's laundry
23:16 pianohacker_D hehe
23:16 wizzyrea      *snicker*
23:29 cjh           morning cait
23:29 jcamins       cait?!?
23:29 wahanui       go back to bed, cait.
23:30 cait          vacation :-)
23:40 bag           oh enjoy vacation cait
23:40 cait          only a day -today was a holiday
23:40 gmcharlt      gah -- nothing quite like nearly sitting on one's cat
23:40 bag           oh enjoy holiday cait
23:40 gmcharlt      you'd think I would know to always check first
23:41 jcamins       gmcharlt: that sentence is wrong.
23:41 jcamins       It implies a completely fictitious relationship.
23:41 jcamins       _You_ have a _cat_?
23:41 gmcharlt      cait: have a good vacation!
23:41 gmcharlt      jcamins: heh, indeed, the possessive goes the other way
23:41 jcamins       The cat is the owner in the relationship.
23:42 jcamins       :)
23:42 * jcamins     cheerfully merges authority records for Rock music and Rap (Music).
23:43 jcamins       Bah. I introduced a typo in this round of renames.
23:45 eythian       jcamins: you should merge country with rap, to produce "crap"
23:45 jcamins       lol
23:45 jcamins       eythian++
23:46 dcook         hehe
23:47 trea          no, that's Gangstagrass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgoSyoIQhjU
23:47 jcamins       Oh, drat.
23:47 jcamins       I think I just uploaded the wrong patches.
23:49 jcamins       Nope, right ones.
23:53 cait          night
23:55 jcamins       rangi++ # calling cars rivers.
23:58 dcook         What the...
23:58 wahanui       the is a stop word
23:58 jcamins       dcook: on twitter.
23:58 * jcamins     wanders off.
23:58 dcook         jcamins: ?
23:58 dcook         I was referring to the email where the person was using Debian but not using packages