Time Nick Message
23:58 dcook I was referring to the email where the person was using Debian but not using packages
23:58 dcook jcamins: ?
23:58 * jcamins wanders off.
23:58 jcamins dcook: on twitter.
23:58 wahanui the is a stop word
23:58 dcook What the...
23:55 jcamins rangi++ # calling cars rivers.
23:53 cait night
23:49 jcamins Nope, right ones.
23:47 jcamins I think I just uploaded the wrong patches.
23:47 jcamins Oh, drat.
23:47 trea no, that's Gangstagrass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgoSyoIQhjU
23:46 dcook hehe
23:45 jcamins eythian++
23:45 jcamins lol
23:45 eythian jcamins: you should merge country with rap, to produce "crap"
23:43 jcamins Bah. I introduced a typo in this round of renames.
23:42 * jcamins cheerfully merges authority records for Rock music and Rap (Music).
23:42 jcamins :)
23:41 jcamins The cat is the owner in the relationship.
23:41 gmcharlt jcamins: heh, indeed, the possessive goes the other way
23:41 gmcharlt cait: have a good vacation!
23:41 jcamins _You_ have a _cat_?
23:41 jcamins It implies a completely fictitious relationship.
23:41 jcamins gmcharlt: that sentence is wrong.
23:40 gmcharlt you'd think I would know to always check first
23:40 bag oh enjoy holiday cait
23:40 gmcharlt gah -- nothing quite like nearly sitting on one's cat
23:40 cait only a day -today was a holiday
23:40 bag oh enjoy vacation cait
23:30 cait vacation :-)
23:29 wahanui go back to bed, cait.
23:29 jcamins cait?!?
23:29 cjh morning cait
23:16 wizzyrea *snicker*
23:16 pianohacker_D hehe
23:16 trea what's laundry
23:16 wizzyrea !
23:16 pianohacker_D "trea kicked by wizzyrea (You forgot to fold the laundry!)"
23:15 wizzyrea ^.^
23:15 pianohacker_D heh well yeah, that's what /kickban is made for :)
23:15 trea !
23:15 * wizzyrea is not terribly sympathetic.
23:15 wizzyrea "good riddance.
23:15 pianohacker_D "well, maybe I'll switch back to a _real_ ILS instead of this open-source stuff that's against capitalism!"
23:14 wizzyrea :P
23:14 pianohacker_D grumpy, trickstery or "some men just want to watch the #koha burn"
23:14 wizzyrea it might not work on me "well voyager is bad and you should feel bad for using it."
23:13 pianohacker_D substitute unicorn, iii or llek depending on what mood you're in that day
23:12 pianohacker_D wizzyrea: oh god that version could work...
23:12 wizzyrea kekekeke
23:12 cjh it could, and for a small down payment...
23:12 wizzyrea ;)
23:12 wizzyrea :P
23:12 wizzyrea EFF THAT LET"S DO IT
23:12 wizzyrea "voyager does it"
23:12 pianohacker_D "Well... yeah..."
23:12 pianohacker_D "Koha can't make circulation rules that vary by phase of the moon!"
23:12 wizzyrea hm no I could see that working.
23:11 pianohacker_D except most people in here are level-headed enough that it would backfire
23:11 cjh heh awesome
23:09 pianohacker_D wizzyrea: Like a less trolly version of http://bash.org/?152037 ?
22:36 wizzyrea whinging = whining
22:35 gmcharlt whinges == itches? :)
22:33 wizzyrea "if I could only make it do this thing wah wah wah ... oh."
22:33 wizzyrea i find whinging essential to my process :P
22:32 gmcharlt heh
22:32 wizzyrea whinge a bit and try again.
22:32 wizzyrea if at first you don't succeed.
22:30 talljoy_DND i'll give it a whirl and hope i put i get it right the first time! ;-)
22:29 rangi yep
22:28 talljoy_DND so place these warns in the link_bibs_to_authorities.pl script somewhere.
22:28 jcamins talljoy_DND: basically what rangi said.
22:20 rangi then it will die at the bad record
22:20 rangi (with correct variable names)
22:20 rangi if (! $record) { die $idnumber; }
22:20 rangi and do
22:20 rangi is find the 2 places it creates the records (auth and biblio)
22:19 rangi what i would do tho
22:19 rangi but is still in zebra
22:19 rangi it could also be a biblio or auth record that as been deleted
22:18 talljoy_DND that's along the lines of what i was thinking i'd have to do.
22:18 rangi to output the id numbers
22:18 rangi no, you will have to add warns
22:17 rangi its going to be specific to your data
22:17 talljoy_DND if biblio i know which one, but if it's an authority records, i'm not sure how to track it down. and i am running it on debug unless there is a more robust debug
22:17 rangi you'll have to add debugging to find that out
22:17 talljoy_DND well yes, but i wonder which biblio or authority.
22:17 rangi means the $record is undefined
22:17 rangi talljoy_DND: invalid biblio or authority
22:16 huginn` talljoy_DND: The operation succeeded.
22:16 talljoy_DND @later tell jcamins can you tell me what this error means when the link_bibs_to_authorities.pl runs? Can't call method "field" on an undefined value at /home/load12/kohaclone/C4/AuthoritiesMarc.pm line 1194. thanks!
22:15 talljoy_DND is jcamins still here?
22:14 pianohacker hey eythian
22:09 wahanui hey, eythian
22:09 eythian hi
21:59 rangi yeah, i think that would work
21:59 gmcharlt CC0
21:58 rangi whats a better license than blah blah
21:58 rangi http://ratings.koha-community.org/add_site
21:58 rangi and then send the patch for the export bit for koha
21:58 rangi i just have to add lots more words
21:57 rangi (thats what im doing on my linode at the mo)
21:57 rangi the infrastructure is all done, you can add a url fetch ratings blah blah
21:57 rangi is coming along
21:57 rangi http://ratings.koha-community.org/
21:55 wizzyrea maybe linode will upgrade my server someday
21:55 wizzyrea if you think of things to stash on there, that's fine by me
21:55 wizzyrea lol
21:54 * rangi wanders off on a tangent
21:53 cjh ldap jenkins testing would be sweet
21:53 rangi then our own idp for persona
21:52 cjh heh
21:52 rangi and then libravatar
21:51 rangi like galen charlton, release manager :)
21:51 rangi if we had ldap, we could even seed it with some real data
21:50 rangi jenkins could test against it
21:50 rangi *nod*
21:42 gmcharlt can't run active directory, of course, but having a stable directory to test against would be golden
21:42 wizzyrea ^.^
21:42 huginn` wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #254 added.
21:42 wizzyrea @quote add <liw> ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:41 huginn` wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
21:41 wizzyrea @quote add <liw> ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:41 gmcharlt I'm feeling a bit of inspiration to put up an LDAP directory on foo.koha-community.org
21:41 gmcharlt hmm
21:41 gmcharlt rangi: agreed
21:38 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7973 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Allow for new type of LDAP authentication
21:38 rangi hmm that report on bug 7973 sounds nasty
21:33 pianohacker will do
21:32 rangi pianohacker: you can chat to eythian when he gets in too, he uses it as well
21:30 pianohacker and it's written in Python! yay!
21:30 pianohacker rangi: so yeah, obnam looks like the bee's knees. any twitchyness or reasons to be careful with it?
21:30 pianohacker hahaha, k. thanks, good night
21:29 liw pianohacker, it's written by a lunatic lazy person, but ask rangi, he's less biased than I am
21:29 pianohacker any reason i shouldn't? ;)
21:29 * liw waves, on the way to bed
21:29 pianohacker I'm thinking of using obnam
21:29 pianohacker hey lars
21:29 pianohacker hahahaha
21:28 liw ... backups. did someone mention backups? I'm sure I heard someone say backups. Backup! DID SOMEONE SAY BACKUPS? I LOVE BACKUPS! BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
21:28 pianohacker well, debian has an up-to-date package, no excuse not to use it :)
21:28 rangi i finally fixed the ubunut ppa too
21:28 pianohacker dejadup is sexy but all kinds of frustrating to actually use
21:27 pianohacker this does look nice, simple enough to work consistently
21:27 pianohacker oh hey, that's right, lars
21:27 rangi The backup server, if used, does not require any special software, on top of SSH. <-- made of win
21:26 rangi the thing i like is you just need somewhere you can ssh to, to back up to it
21:26 gmcharlt liw++
21:26 rangi http://liw.fi/obnam/
21:25 rangi pianohacker: obnam
21:25 pianohacker I use it for the high write performance on an SSD with LZO compression, but it is a bit twitchy
21:25 * Dyrcona has heard nothing good about btrfs.....
21:24 pianohacker hahaha, yes. what do you use for backups, btw?
21:24 rangi pianohacker: backups :)
21:24 rangi he's sworn off it
21:24 rangi one of the guys at work had 2 btrfs fails in 2 days
21:22 tcohen i'm in talks with my boss to get the money soon and book for kohacon
21:21 pianohacker phew, have swap and btrfs autodefrag in place, hopefully things will stop exploding
21:21 rangi excellent
21:21 tcohen actually, I got my visa yesterday
21:21 rangi yay!
21:21 tcohen i got it, thanks
21:20 rangi so hopefully you will get one :)
21:20 rangi i sent a sample invitation letter
21:20 rangi heya tcohen
21:19 tcohen hi rangi
21:04 rangi back
20:23 rangi ftr im way more happy with saying using at your risk, but ill live with a robust qa process as second best option
20:23 gmcharlt bag: well one thing to keep in mind, there is no serious proposal to actually revert the feature
20:23 bag well normally I say dumb things - before I say dumbass things :P
20:22 bag I'm getting a little frustrated at the moment - I'll be back later… before I say something dumb
20:22 rangi bbl
20:22 rangi right kids to school
20:21 gmcharlt bag: the mere existence of the feature has consequences that I wish had been planned for a bit more in advance; but at least we're having the discussion now
20:20 bag there is no reason to pull plugins - it's disabled by default
20:20 bag yeah I totally agree - I am not disagreing with anyone :) -- I'm just saying we are willing to help out to get the ball rolling
20:19 rangi whats the point?
20:19 wahanui rangi: I forgot point
20:19 rangi wahanui forget the point
20:19 rangi lol
20:19 gmcharlt bag: one of the points, as far as I'm concerned, would be ensuring that if it happens, it happens as a broadly-shared community effort
20:19 wahanui the point is not that the koha-community write a page about there software and the PTFS people write a page about there's. the point is that we have useful, informative content about the software and it's history and that anything controversial is closely referenced
20:19 rangi or whats the point?
20:18 rangi you cant qa your own work
20:18 rangi same rules should apply of course
20:18 bag that's fine with me - we'll volunteer for it - until you get someone outside bywater that wants to do it - and we'll pass it on :)
20:17 rangi if the community is going to assert anything
20:17 rangi i figure we'd have to elect a plugin QA team
20:17 bag so far we do have one good script for it - that rolls hard-due-dates forward
20:16 bag it's also pretty rad for reports
20:14 bag if there are two people that want - I believe in a patch for koha
20:14 bag plugins for us = some odd thing that would never ever make sense to write something for koha - becuase there is only one person on the world that would want it
20:13 bag gmcharlt: totally agree
20:13 gmcharlt bag: and along with that, promise to not allow plugins to become a way to slip stuff past the core QA radar?
20:12 bag we'd be willing to QA those - no problem
20:12 bag jcamins: same
20:12 jcamins I meant host as in "code that will run plugins."
20:12 jcamins You meant host as in server.
20:11 jcamins Oh, wait.
20:11 bag at least one that we could offer… and I'd be willing to offer that we QA those
20:11 jcamins bag: I'm not proposing that the plugin code should be removed! I bent my own rules to get it in!
20:11 rangi i guess if a bunch of people want to volunteer to do plugin qa, then it might be workable, but i fear it will drain our already thin testing resources
20:11 bag I know that nengard and khall are working on plugin host
20:11 jcamins oleonard: separate website?
20:10 jcamins gmcharlt: well, that cat's out of the bag, short of you reverting the plugin host.
20:10 gmcharlt no matter how much we disclaim responsibility
20:10 oleonard How do we provide a place for uploads without suggesting that they are at least somewhat official?
20:10 gmcharlt rangi: my fear with that is that without an official repo, anything calling itself a Koha plugin that is malicious or simply badly written reflects back on us
20:09 rangi yep, just like wordpress
20:09 jcamins Provide a place people can upload plugins to, maybe, with the explicit note that none of them are supported by anyone other than the plugin's author, and don't count on that either.
20:09 * jcamins is comfortable with no plugin registry.
20:08 rangi cos frankly the QA team has more than enough work already
20:08 rangi i wonder if im the only one who is comfortable with no plugin repository, or one that says, 'we provide no, none, nada, assurance of the qualtity of any of these, use totally at your own risk'
20:07 rangi bag: yep got a maui sighting
20:07 rangi gmcharlt: could be, but if the same data on 3.10.x .. that would be less likely, i guess it might be different data though
20:06 gmcharlt i.e. some quirk of their circ policies causing a busy-wait loop
20:06 rangi http://demo.mykoha.co.nz/
20:06 gmcharlt rangi: my suspicion, albeit one without any real basis at the moment, is that it might be data dependent
20:06 rangi no thats a catalyst one
20:04 bag yay Maui sighting right?
20:04 bag is this your new home server? Or did you abandon that idea and host everything
20:03 rangi cos its ataraus party tomorrow
20:03 rangi but probably not
20:03 rangi i might try benchmarking the same db on a few different versions over the weekend
20:03 rangi there is a benchmarc_circulation.pl that with some hacking mostly works
20:02 rangi thanks
20:01 rangi its running about 12 koha instances too
20:01 jcamins I remember 33Mhz seeming fast.
20:01 rangi but yeah its not a super box by even the slightest stretch of the imagination
20:01 jcamins That's freaking *fast*.
20:01 drojf "so the 2 differences are Ubuntu and the LiveDVD" … *whistles in an unsuspicious way*
20:01 jcamins "2500 mhz"
20:01 jcamins bag: no, I mean the numbers.
20:00 bag jcamins I've seen it yes
20:00 bag yeah 10gig will be quick
20:00 jcamins Does anyone else get stopped short by CPU speeds?
19:59 rangi i cant read without coffee :)
19:59 rangi sorry, 10gig
19:59 bag curlload it :)
19:58 rangi running stock debian squeeze and stock 3.12.0 package
19:58 rangi (its a single cpu 2500 mhz with 1gig of ram)
19:58 bag yeah was snappy here too
19:58 oleonard No, maybe 3 seconds for me
19:57 rangi but not 30seconds?
19:57 rangi prolly laggier to you on the other side of the net
19:57 rangi sheri turner for a borrwer, and testcard for a barcode .. it feels plenty snappy to me?
19:56 rangi pass:staff1
19:56 rangi user:staff
19:56 rangi http://demo-intra.mykoha.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/circ/circulation-home.pl
19:55 oleonard It's okay rangi I see the pink elephants too
19:55 gmcharlt sure
19:55 rangi anyone got a sec to sanity check somethign for me?
19:24 pianohacker yeah
19:23 gmcharlt no great loss if we have to store it twice
19:23 pianohacker gmcharlt: the only thing I can think of is that it allows us the cool trick of storing the zebra username/password in only one place
19:22 gmcharlt ;)
19:22 gmcharlt for what Koha itself needs, you really could get away with plain old INI
19:21 gmcharlt there's actually no particular reason why the main Zebra config file needs to also store Koha's base config settings
19:20 gmcharlt pianohacker: eh, and that really was by happensance
19:20 pianohacker zebra's the main reason for it being the size, shape and format it is, afaik
19:19 pianohacker Truthfully, given how simple _koha's_ requirements are for koha-conf.xml, then thing could be an INI
19:18 jcamins And by "always," I mean "it crossed my mind once, briefly, when someone said 'let's use YAML/JSON for koha-conf.xml'"
19:17 jcamins I always thought it was kind of dumb to use algorithms on a subset that were slower than those that handled the more general case.
19:17 gmcharlt :)
19:17 * druthb extends YAML::Syck; she is old and twitchy, too
19:16 jcamins That clarifies why YAML is slower.
19:16 jcamins gmcharlt: ohhhh.
19:16 pianohacker my understanding was the opposite
19:16 gmcharlt jcamins: other way around, I think
19:16 jcamins s/JAYAML/YAML/
19:16 gmcharlt and most JSON tools don't pretty-print by default (for obvious reasons)
19:16 jcamins I understood that JSON was a superset of JAYAML.
19:15 pianohacker jcamins: somewhat. the syntax is clunkier, though
19:15 jcamins gmcharlt: You can write it formatted exactly the same as YAML, no?
19:15 pianohacker excactly
19:14 gmcharlt but tends to be less great for cases where we expect humans to write it
19:14 jcamins I prefer JSON, though. It's way faster.
19:13 pianohacker I _think_ that had the same problems, but let me check again
19:13 jcamins Pretty sure that's what the POD recommends.
19:13 jcamins YAML::XS?
19:13 pianohacker I'd be quite happy to find out that other alternatives have been made
19:12 pianohacker Hahaha, yeah. Your choice is between YAML::Syck, which is old and twitchy, and YAML::PP, which is _crap_ at interpreting types in YAML correctly
19:11 maximep hmmm search.cpan isnt working
19:11 maximep bwahaha
19:11 jcamins The POD says "DO NOT USE THIS MODULE."
19:11 pianohacker that's an excellent idea
19:11 maximep great idea
19:11 jcamins And if you decide to work on that, consider replacing YAML::Syck.
19:10 gmcharlt which might be nice for DRY
19:10 gmcharlt and will remain so unless somebody wants to add a bit more metadata to the *.pref files and writing a sync_stock_prefs() routine
19:06 pianohacker so, it's an official requirement that has a number of good reasons behind it :)
19:05 maximep noted for future patches =)
19:05 maximep alright :P
19:05 jcamins :)
19:05 jcamins Plus, it's required to get into Koha.
19:04 pianohacker plus having a description field is a nice thing for people working in the DB :)
19:03 pianohacker you mainly need to make sure that the type field is set to YesNo if it's a boolean field, to ensure it's intepreted and saved correctly
19:03 jcamins Yes.
19:03 pianohacker weeeeell, you should explicitly add it to both, as the type and options fields are important
19:02 maximep ah yes, that's what I meant
19:02 maximep pretty sure you only need to add it to the .pref if you dont need a default value
19:01 pianohacker maximep: the sysprefs interface will though
19:00 maximep huh
19:00 jcamins No.
19:00 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8337 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Failed QA , System preferences for longoverdue cron
19:00 maximep bug 8337. Aren't sysprefs automatically added to the db when they don't existe ?
18:55 pianohacker sorry to hear that
18:55 maximep to work using only open source tech, but tu never have time to share stuff
18:54 maximep I won't get into details, but yeah, it sucks
18:51 pianohacker I've done work for certain clients under NDAs (never again), was that your situation?
18:50 jcamins maximep: that's why contributing code is not optional in my contracts.
18:50 pianohacker maximep: ?
18:49 maximep -_-
18:49 maximep we did the exact same thing 2 years ago, but could never share it
18:49 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10096 new feature, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Add a Z39.50 interface for authority searching
18:49 maximep frustration of the day: bug 10096
18:44 pianohacker "well billy bob I think we done did tructured it"
18:44 druthb druthbsnack tres leches cake :)
18:44 jcamins Ditto.
18:44 pianohacker ah, sorry. irc over laggy ssh
18:43 gmcharlt tructure (v): to construct buildings with the aid of a truck
18:41 * jcamins realizes that "tructure" is not a verb.
18:40 wahanui thanks druthb :)
18:40 druthb wahanui: botsnack Gatorade
18:39 pianohacker graph theory babbling
18:38 wahanui That is a good idea.
18:38 jcamins That what?
18:38 pianohacker that the datas tructure with a k20 complete graph maaaaaaay be our downfall
18:34 tcohen s/should/shouldn't/
18:34 tcohen we should have added that while(true){malloc} line to the circulation.pl script
18:26 jcamins True.
18:25 pianohacker although come to think of it, you don't need zebra for circ, so he could have just disabled it to eliminate a cause
18:25 tcohen yes
18:25 jcamins tcohen: but it was only deprecated in 3.4 and 3.6. Not removed.
18:24 pianohacker oh thank goodness, didn't know it had been deprecated that long ago
18:24 tcohen Nor 3.6 or 3.4
18:24 jcamins Nor 3.8, come to that.
18:24 jcamins Nor 3.10, for that matter.
18:24 jcamins pianohacker: not in 3.12!
18:23 pianohacker NoZebra? happy fun times
18:22 jcamins "I'm not running the Zebra daemon" <-- huh?
18:20 talljoy well i used marcedit and it says 119K records, but the last record is cut off. so i suspect a bad mrc file that is not opening completely in marcedit.
18:20 jcamins talljoy: and you used marclint or something like that to confirm that there really were 119k records, right?
18:19 talljoy i'm going to try that too. i also suspect some inaccuracies in their mrc authority data quite honestly
18:16 * drojf hides
18:16 drojf i blame cleanup_database.pl. it does surprise upgrades too
18:15 jcamins No idea. You could try stage_file.
18:15 talljoy 3.10.3
18:13 jcamins What version, out of curiosity?
18:13 talljoy this is very odd indeed. and i have seen this on other loads lately as well.
18:13 jcamins It does not in any way interface with the auth linker code.
18:12 jcamins talljoy: bulkmarcimport shouldn't be doing anything like that, so far as I know.
18:11 pianohacker gmcharlt: okay, cool. Thanks
18:11 talljoy so it is autocreating authorities for me, which is very generous, but totally unwanted behavior.
18:11 talljoy it have verified that i only have 119K records in the file and it appears to be reading biblio marc records during the import. "....Bad MARC record 208719: blah blah blah"......
18:11 gmcharlt but unfortunately, not seeing any documented attributes that support directly filtering on the encoding level
18:10 gmcharlt pianohacker: it looks like some filtering could be done via use attribute 56 (code institution) and excluding "amim" as a source
18:10 talljoy ikr, weird?
18:10 jcamins Not at all, if there are really only 119k auth records.
18:09 talljoy good afternoon! anyone familiar with bulkmarcimport.pl? i am feeding it a marc file of 119K marc authority records and it is 'loading' over 200K marc authority records for me. normal?
18:07 jcamins Okay. I'll rename the class tonight, then.
18:06 gmcharlt IIRC, that matches previous behavior, so yes, I think the follow-up addresses that
18:06 jcamins It was not actually necessary.
18:06 jcamins Yeah.
18:06 gmcharlt looks like the 999 check has gone away entirely?
18:03 jcamins gmcharlt: aside from name, does my follow-up on 9755 address your concerns?
18:03 tcohen i'm not used to the accountlines table, but the note I wrote is not on the table, or shown anywhere
18:02 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6413 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Notes in Fines doing wonky things
18:02 tcohen i'm not sure bug 6413 is working
18:00 jcamins Eww. Didn't they use to?
17:59 gmcharlt jcamins: not so sure, alas - http://www.loc.gov/z3950/lcserver.html#usea
17:59 jcamins You'd just have to look up the attribute.
17:59 pianohacker gmcharlt: Working on some pazpar2-based external search
17:59 jcamins I think LC supports record level.
17:58 gmcharlt pianohacker: well, LC also has a *ton* of fully fleshed out records; so I guess I'd have to ask ... what are you trying to do, specifically?
17:58 pianohacker using lx2.loc.gov/LCDB at the moment
17:58 pianohacker that would make sense. Is there a better server for LOC, or a search term that could filter based on leader/17?
17:57 gmcharlt encoding level = 5 (from the Leader/17), meaning partial (preliminary record)
17:56 druthb Their records on serial romance are like that, too…kinda short; they may get the data directly from publishers.
17:56 jcamins Yeah.
17:56 druthb Looks like an auto-generated record based on stuff from the Copyright Office, not something they actually handled and cataloged.
17:54 pastebot "pianohacker" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "weird LOC record" (27 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/29
17:54 pianohacker here, I'll pastebin it
17:54 pianohacker tcohen++
17:54 jcamins No 010? Wow, that _is_ a defective record.
17:53 pianohacker no 010, but it has a 035 of 96518898
17:53 pianohacker curses, sorry. There are some records that only seem to show through certain search interfaces
17:52 tcohen bmayor should have better records, FFyH also
17:52 jcamins That link doesn't work.. What is the 010?
17:52 gmcharlt i.e., doesn't work for me
17:52 gmcharlt pianohacker: I think that is session-specific
17:52 tcohen pianohacker: http://blogs.unc.edu.ar/koha/lang/es/2011/03/30/lista-de-servidores-z39-50-de-la-uncuncs-z39-50-servers-list/
17:51 pianohacker (apologies for the url)
17:51 pianohacker gmcharlt: here's an example: http://www.loc.gov/cgi-bin/zgate?present+9543744+Default+1+1+M+1.2.840.10003.5.10+2+/cgi-bin/zgate?ACTION=INIT&FORM_HOST_PORT=/prod/www/data/z3950/locils1.html,z3950.loc.gov,7090
17:49 gmcharlt jcamins: well, that at least will happen in some form for 3.14
17:48 jcamins If, you know, there was some way to have a non-MARC fielded record.
17:47 jcamins But I definitely don't like Koha::MARC::Record, because one of my goals with the refactor was to make it trivial to add merging non-MARC fielded record types.
17:46 gmcharlt and sorry to be a pain about it, but I generally prefer to tackle naming for new modules before they get added
17:46 gmcharlt jcamins: thanks
17:46 jcamins I'll redo the follow-up this evening.
17:45 jcamins gmcharlt: I am okay with Koha::MetadataRecord.
17:45 pianohacker gmcharlt: a bevy of them, let me try to get some urls
17:45 gmcharlt pianohacker: do you have any specific records handy?
17:45 huginn` druthb: Quote #7: "Snow_Fox: a rift opens in space the information is shuffled to dev_hyperspace rift then closes" (added by wizzyrea at 03:28 PM, June 18, 2009)
17:45 druthb @quote random
17:45 pianohacker jcamins: that explains a lot of the weirdness I'm seeing
17:45 jcamins (and it wasn't by pianohacker... a cataloger at NYU mentioned this to me in passing)
17:44 jcamins That was my response when I was told that, too.
17:43 * gmcharlt blinks
17:43 jcamins And most of those records are seemingly woefully inadequate.
17:43 jcamins Their Z39.50 database includes a lot more records than they export to OCLC.
17:42 gmcharlt er, what?
17:42 pianohacker not horribly. There are a few nice things that are missing, though, like 100 tags
17:42 jcamins gmcharlt: not via Z39.50.
17:42 * gmcharlt would have expected the vast majority of their available records to be fairly complete
17:41 gmcharlt LC has sparse records?
17:41 pianohacker ... whose records are a bit less ... sparse than the LOC's? :)
17:40 pianohacker hey, #koha. any large #koha libraries out there with z39.50 I could use for (low-load) testing?
17:33 huginn` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
17:33 gmcharlt @later tell magnuse I'd like to draw your attention to bug 10218 -- I'm assuming that the same changes ought to be made to the NORMARC stylesheets
17:32 pianohacker haha, thanks huginn`
17:31 pianohacker heh, yup. reddit was in a tizzy about that this morning
17:31 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1 major, P2, ---, chris, CLOSED FIXED, Missing uploadedmarc table definition
17:31 tcohen just closed bug #1
17:31 tcohen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
17:30 pianohacker ah, okay! that makes a lot more sense than a minecraft world editor having a tabstop option :)
17:27 tcohen pianohacker: heh, no, I meant the text editor that ships with mc, it was a joke anyway, as I accidentaly pasted some of my Vim settings
17:12 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10381 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Hide basket links should be improved
17:12 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10381: Followup adding some text around Apply/cancel filter.
17:12 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 10381: POD lines of GetBasketsInfosByBookseller
17:12 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8845 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Add ability search patrons by date of birth
17:12 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 8845: FIX dateonly is the 4th parameter, not 3rd!
17:12 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth - Add tooltip
17:12 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 8845: Followup Allow to give a date using the syspref format
17:12 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth
17:12 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1210: SUCCESS in 1 hr 18 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1210/
17:10 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #14: "joetho: I only looked for missing ccodes- not dysfunctional orphans." (added by wizzyrea at 08:31 PM, July 09, 2009)
17:10 gmcharlt @quote random
16:45 adam_m <oleonard> ah never mind just in a different place
16:42 adam_m <oleonard> there is one particularly odd thing however. seems like that if i search for something and produce a number of results I am able to easily check off whatever items and hold them however if i search something and go directly to a result because there is only one, then I cannot do so
16:39 pianohacker tcohen: wait, http://www.mcedit.net/ ?
16:37 oleonard adam_m: Getting holds working trips up a lot of people, including me
16:37 adam_m <oleonard> Everything else works perfectly as well. Ready to deploy to the schools now :)
16:36 adam_m <oleonard> sweet. Alright it seems to work, I feel a little silly for not looking there earlier, thanks for the help!
16:33 oleonard adam_m: Administration -> System preferences. You can search by preference name.
16:33 adam_m <oleonard> I was looking for that setting. where is that located
16:32 drojf wrong window
16:32 drojf hmpf
16:32 drojf d'oh. anscheinend gibts ein seminar "modeling lexical data" bei den germanisten. hätte das magisterbegleitend gut gepasst
16:29 oleonard adam_m: AllowOnShelfHolds system preference is set to "allow" ?
16:28 adam_m <oleonard> yes i did also put in default circulation rules
16:07 tcohen now everyone knows I use mcedit :-P
16:06 gmcharlt :)
16:04 tcohen oops
16:04 tcohen set nonu nu
16:04 tcohen set nocul cul
16:04 tcohen set shiftwidth=4
16:04 tcohen set softtabstop=4
16:04 tcohen set expandtab
15:55 adam_m oleanard: yeah im still here sorry
15:54 jenkins_koha Starting build #1210 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:52 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9505 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , acqui/invoices.pl contains an unnecessary loop
15:52 jenkins_koha Colin Campbell: bug 9505 refactor loops in invoices.pl
15:52 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1209: SUCCESS in 1 hr 15 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1209/
15:52 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10381: Followup adding some text around Apply/cancel filter. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=600eff7827be1c396e7ea13cd7c7159003d6c794> / Bug 10381: POD lines of GetBasketsInfosByBookseller <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5bf996f68d2279ae9582b338b3d094ad20f7596c>
15:40 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8845: FIX dateonly is the 4th parameter, not 3rd! <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d1817ab92d1dcc5d96180e65563db64469090fe4> / Bug 8845 - Add ability search patrons by date of birth - Add tooltip <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f744c863c3db12cc8676c7d29a6711cdc3cc4681> / Bug 8845: Followup Allow to give a date using the syspref format <http://git.koha-com
15:39 oleonard adam_m: Do you have a default circulation rule set up?
15:38 oleonard adam_m: Still around?
15:28 gaetan_B bye !
15:27 adam_m Hello, I have been playing around with the settings of koha, it still seems that though I can check out books there is no way that I can place a hold on a book, I've looked and checked to make sure there wasnt some sort of setting that was stopping from doing so in the patrons category as well as checking to make sure that there was no rule against it in the circulation rules as well
15:19 pianohacker hey druthb
15:18 druthb hi, pianohacker! :)
15:12 pianohacker good morning
15:11 reiveune bye
15:09 adam_m Hello
14:51 oleonard Can someone please give an educated answer to the "Zebra Indexing problem with upgrade" mailing list question so that paul.a doesn't have the last word?
14:38 gmcharlt tcohen: that one is pure refactoring; no need to push it unless a later bugfix you want to push depends on it
14:38 jenkins_koha Starting build #1209 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:36 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Allow packages to work on debian wheezy
14:36 jenkins_koha Robin Sheat: Bug 10367 - [3.12] update the rules and control file for wheezy
14:36 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #48: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/48/
14:36 tcohen is a bugfix, with enough refactoring to be considered an enh?
14:36 gmcharlt tcohen: ?
14:35 tcohen gmcharlt: 9507
14:19 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: bug 9505 refactor loops in invoices.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e294defc299e97fe5e1ecfdeb648e8f8f080f5f5>
14:18 tcohen nice druthb
13:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #48 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
13:54 druthb A 2011 Nissan Sentra.
13:52 tcohen what car do u own druthb?
13:52 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9890 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Fix the new plugin system for package installs
13:52 tcohen bug 9890
13:51 tcohen magnus_away: around?
13:50 druthb about four hours, and you're there.
13:50 druthb The interstate between here and Dallas is now mostly 70/75 mph…that's a nice run.
13:49 tcohen but its not a car anyone should drive at that speed
13:49 druthb I was fairly satisfied when the national speed limit was 65 mph/105 kph. Faster than that is occasionally nice, out in the boonies.
13:49 tcohen hmm, i reached 205kph when I got my new car for a 'speed limit test'
13:47 druthb Way too fast for my blood. I'm old and boring; I top out about 120 kph, before I chicken out.
13:47 druthb heh.
13:46 tcohen you need to get a D'elorean druthb
13:46 druthb tcohen: correct, unless you're being chased by federal police (the FBI). But the states *do* collaborate and cooperate, to some extent.
13:46 oleonard If there's any public infrastructure we'll pay for in America, it's toys for the police.
13:46 drojf only one way… steal a police car
13:45 druthb See, there's the rub, drojf. Our cops in Texas, particularly the Highway Patrol, drive extremely high-performance cars. You're *not* faster than them, almost guaranteed.
13:45 drojf tcohen: but druthb probably wants to go back too :D
13:45 tcohen then drojf is right :-D
13:45 tcohen is it real what we see in the movies, that once you change state the policy can't get you?
13:44 druthb There's about a 650 km stretch in west TX, where the speed limit is 80 mph/130 kph, but that's as fast as it gets, anywhere in America.
13:44 drojf <-- don't take advice from this person
13:44 drojf as long as you are faster than the police, speed limits don't matter
13:42 druthb drojf: 28 hours, with our speed limits (even though the ones out west keep going up and up and up, it's not an Autobahn.)
13:42 druthb Ooooh, fancy. A note just handed to me, an invitation to a new-hire Meet and Greet dinner with le CEO, at a fancy restaurant near here in a couple of weeks. Paper note, in an envelope, fancy vellum paper… "The favor of a reply is requested…"
13:42 drojf it's only a 10 hours drive, if you got a really fast car :P
13:38 druthb I haz iPod. And my car haz iPod connector built-in.
13:38 druthb I lived out there for 20 years, oleonard. Had 'nuf of that, thanks.
13:37 oleonard On the other hand if you take the plane you'll miss out on all that west Texas AM radio
13:37 drojf sleep through kohacon, drive back
13:37 druthb yah.
13:37 cait and you'd be exhausted
13:37 druthb I do, actually, drojf…but that one would be especially gruelling.
13:37 cait yeah and you'd need to sleep and eat on the way ...
13:37 druthb That's also…uhm….6 tanks of fuel, each way, which, at current prices, is about $250 each way. Plane tix are about the same.
13:36 drojf you really love road trips?
13:36 drojf druthb: why would you drive a way like that??
13:35 druthb I'm by-definition crazy, but I'm not *that* kind of crazy.
13:35 druthb I was thinking of driving, maybe….but 1,914 miles (3,080 km)…and the whole first *day* of driving would be in the Texas desert country—and it gets worse from there…. uhm.
13:34 cait i'd go with sun spots in that case
13:34 cait hm
13:34 wahanui cait: The server at bofh.engr.wisc.edu (port 666) appears to be down.
13:34 cait excuse?
13:34 wahanui cait: The server at bofh.engr.wisc.edu (port 666) appears to be down.
13:34 cait excuse?
13:34 cait because...
13:34 oleonard If firebug tells my my variable is an object with all the properties I expect it to have, why does console.log(obj.property) say "undefined" ?
13:33 tcohen ok, i'll book on monday
13:33 drojf and put up the tent next to tcohen's king bed lol
13:32 cait lol
13:32 drojf i'd go with a tent
13:32 cait hm
13:32 cait you are right
13:32 cait oh yes
13:32 cait ok, off to clean the rest of the apartment... i am having guests for a long weekend :)
13:32 drojf cait: i only see king beds when i enter the code. and only the higher priced room types
13:30 tcohen i like king beds anyway :-P
13:30 cait i think that shoudl work, it does for me
13:30 cait add the offer/group code i gave above
13:30 cait not using the link
13:30 cait try to go from the normal booking page
13:29 tcohen nope, only king sized rooms appear
13:29 cait tcohen: just add the code manually and pick queen beds in one of the cheaper towers
13:28 drojf i like the "there is a fee so you don't have to pay an additional charge" part. lol
13:28 cait i think you can also pick queen? beds
13:27 oleonard It's okay we all like each other here ;)
13:27 tcohen guess will make it difficult
13:27 tcohen rooms have a single king size bed
13:26 cait yep SKOHACN
13:26 cait someone might be interested
13:25 cait if you want to share room - why not try a mail to the mailinglist?
13:25 cait i haven't booked the hotel yet
13:25 drojf [off] https://www.reserveparadise.com/cgi-bin/lansaweb?procfun+rn+resnet+atl+funcparms+UP(A2560):;SKOHACN;101513;8;1;0;005005;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;R;;;;;?
13:25 cait :)
13:25 cait you can also see it in the url
13:25 druthb rambutan/rhcl: Either of you going to KohaCon?
13:25 cait tcohen: the link from the wiki page has the code
13:25 drojf tcohen: looks like there is a code in the link
13:25 druthb oooh….two Gregs. FTW.
13:24 druthb hi, oleonard and rambutan!
13:24 * oleonard shakes his fist at this JavaScript
13:24 tcohen do I need to put some group code or something?
13:24 cait http://koha-community.org/kohacon/kohacon13/registration/
13:24 druthb hi, cait! did you see the news? tcohen is coming to KohaCon!
13:24 drojf i think we are still in the "we need more room reservations to get the free conference room" phase
13:23 druthb (it's what she gets for not paying attention.)
13:23 cait huh?
13:23 druthb if not, we can always blame cait.
13:21 druthb I would imagine rooms are still available.
13:21 druthb I've not heard a lot of talk about sharing rooms, so I don't know.
13:21 tcohen are there available rooms still?
13:20 tcohen are people sharing rooms?
13:20 druthb woo hoo! One more reason for me to be glad I'm going.
13:20 tcohen my boss said he'll try to pay for it
13:20 tcohen got my visa yesterday
13:19 druthb you're gonna be there, tcohen?
13:19 druthb http://koha-community.org/kohacon/kohacon13/registration/
13:18 tcohen i need to register for kohacon
13:18 druthb :)
13:17 wahanui Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
13:17 druthb wahanui: druthb?
13:17 * druthb chuckles.
13:17 wahanui OK, tcohen.
13:17 tcohen wahanui: tcohen is 122
13:17 tcohen hmm
13:17 wahanui oleonard: I forgot tcohen
13:17 oleonard wahanui: forget tcohen
13:17 wahanui tcohen, I didn't have anything matching tcohen is 120
13:17 tcohen wahanui: forget tcohen is 120
13:17 wahanui ...but tcohen is 120...
13:17 tcohen wahanui: tcohen is 122
13:16 wahanui ...but tcohen is 120...
13:16 druthb wahanui: no, tcohen is awesome^2!
13:16 druthb !
13:16 wahanui tcohen is 120
13:16 druthb tcohen?
13:15 wahanui i think jcamins is a spoilsport
13:15 tcohen jcamins?
13:14 wahanui rumour has it the registration form is online :)
13:14 tcohen cait: where's the registration form?
13:14 wahanui kohacon13 is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon13_Summary
13:14 tcohen kohacon13?
13:11 tweetbot [off] twitter: @Hyperboreasrl: "Sono online le presentazioni dei relatori dell'evento sul software #KohaILS del 19 aprile. Guardatele su Slideshare http://t.co/teuFH38Sag"
12:49 tcohen do plugins work within a package install?
12:39 tcohen_ morning #koha
12:23 oleonard Hi #koha
10:42 cait Joubu++ again for Qa :)
09:59 tweetbot [off] twitter: @Hyperboreasrl: "Sono online i video dell'evento su #KohaILS del 19 aprile. Guardateli sul nostro canale YouTube http://t.co/SbTpORGx3k"
09:58 tweetbot [off] twitter: @Tredok: "7 patch testés : 4 signés, 3 à revoir #KohaILS"
09:11 cait Joubu: nice idea too :)
09:10 tweetbot [off] twitter: @BibLibre: "Au cas où vous l'auriez manqué : Nous avons traduit les notes de version de #Kohails 3.12 - https://t.co/B4GLn6XfC8"
09:02 Joubu rangi++ :)
08:58 cait Joubu++ rangi++ :)
08:55 rangi Joubu: merged
08:00 mtj https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html
07:59 mtj interesting -> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/take-action-for-free-javascript
07:40 cait hm now he was gone fast
07:39 dcook Night everyone
07:39 dcook All right time to head home and spend time with loved ones!
07:34 drojf hi cait :)
07:33 cait hi drojf :)
07:31 drojf good morning #koha
07:19 alex_a s/t/r/
07:19 cait hi alex_a :)
07:19 alex_a bonjout cait :)
07:17 alex_a bonjour gaetan_B
07:15 gaetan_B hello
07:06 alex_a salut dcook !
07:06 dcook salut alex_a :)
06:58 alex_a hello
06:49 jajm hello
06:49 samueld hi everybody :-)
06:39 dcook morning/evening :)
06:38 reiveune hello
06:37 christophe_c hello #koha
05:50 tweetbot [off] twitter: @Tredok: "Sélection de patchs à signer pour la seconde matinée de travail. J'ai encore choisi (un peu) à l'arrache ^^ https://t.co/Wl6dUmWfbF #KohaILS"
05:26 tweetbot [off] twitter: @Tredok: "Sélection de patch à signer pour la seconde matinée de travail. J'ai encore choisi (un peu) à l'arrache ^^ https://t.co/nezFOjojKH #KohaILS"
03:55 eythian later
03:55 mtompset Have a greet day (24 hour period), lurkers -- wizzyrea eythian dcook. :)
03:54 mtompset Well, I should sleep.
03:47 mtompset I like the /opac/svc/login :)
03:46 eythian I haven't seen the persona code. I should have a look.
03:46 eythian basically it's just that if the user doesn't exist, it adds it.
03:46 mtompset I was looking at the persona code. I like it.
03:46 mtompset I guess I'll look at the ldap log in method more closely now.
03:45 mtompset And this backchannel stuff is a pain, because of the user entry needs to be in borrowers constraint.
03:44 mtompset I've got code now that using a simplesamlphp set up on the same server redirects to simplesamlphp, which does the authentication, and then it calls a backchannel (which I need to finish writing and testing) that makes the user logged in, and then redirects to the page the user sees.
03:43 mtompset Okay... at least I know where I have to head with my testing and coding.
03:42 huginn` eythian: The operation succeeded.
03:42 eythian @later tell tcohen Bug 10367 is ready for 3.12, probably a good one to get in soon.
03:42 wizzyrea yeah, how would you know if things were issued if you didn't have users?
03:41 wahanui tcohen was last seen on #koha 11 hours, 51 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying: thanks oleonard [Wed May 29 15:50:13 2013]
03:41 eythian wahanui: seen tcohen
03:40 eythian otherwise tracking user info isn't really possible
03:40 eythian yeah
03:40 mtompset so with ldap, the first time you log in, it adds the user?
03:39 eythian yeah, could be that
03:39 wahanui probably that is an issue with missing dependencies.
03:39 wizzyrea probably that
03:39 eythian wizzyrea: I'm not sure :)
03:39 wizzyrea or not storing the passwords maybe
03:39 wizzyrea what am I thinking of then
03:39 eythian might be that's what you mean
03:39 eythian well, when you first log in, it will put the borrower into the borrowers table
03:39 wizzyrea or not
03:39 eythian no
03:39 wizzyrea ldap can work that way I think - eythian might know
03:33 mtompset I'm curious. Do we have any authentication methods working in koha that don't require the user to be in the borrowers table?
03:33 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
03:31 dcook hey ya mtompset
03:31 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
02:47 dcook :D
02:46 * eythian goes to double check this
02:46 eythian the master package should now be directly installable on wheezy and squeeze.
02:19 pug bye!
02:19 pug alright guys - thanks a ton - ttys!
02:12 pug for small schools - in India - that arent using anything - and the staff under the librarian wouldnt want to read LOT of words on the screen
02:10 jcamins What kind of library, BTW?
02:10 pug ciao guys?
02:10 pug Alright - ill go back - do the homework on the new plan and come back
02:09 pug Im sure some conditions or the other would come in .. that sounds quite expected as of now
02:08 jcamins Unless you manage to avoid any code customizations at all, in which case, no need to bother.
02:08 jcamins Yes.
02:08 pug jcamins - :) .. but the 'make your own debian package' for my Ubuntu production enviro still stays , right?
02:06 jcamins Probably, yeah.
02:06 pug :)
02:06 pug Did you guys collectively just save my life?!
02:05 wahanui somebody said jquery library was found at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/JQuery_Library
02:05 jcamins jquery library?
02:05 jcamins And you can do some pretty impressive things with js.
02:05 jcamins Yup.
02:04 pug so I use css ids, classes .. show or hide, ids and classes .. incase I wish to use some conditions use js .. right?!
02:03 pug jcamins -- hmm - I see now
02:02 jcamins pug: ouch, no, you don't want to do that.
02:02 pug so I was doing it the un-smart way -- creating blocks in templates , and including them or not based on IFs
02:02 cjh it also depends on what kind of changes you are making, if it is only adding/removing from a page then it is perfect.
02:02 pug cool - i think i get it
02:02 jcamins That's definitely the way to do it. It would work great. :)
02:01 eythian which are always painful to deal with
02:01 eythian works fine, that's usually how we do it, and it saves on template modifications
02:01 pug that sounds like a easy way to do it, though - wouldnt work well?
02:01 dcook So you're doing others a favour ;)
02:01 dcook Not to mention the fact that it's just plain useful for others in the future as well
02:00 dcook :D
02:00 cjh drats, too slow.
02:00 cjh and then you can upstream the css ids :)
02:00 eythian adding the ids/classes is upstreamable.
02:00 eythian pug: it might be good for you to add CSS ids to the things you want to hide, and then use CSS/jquery to manipulate them
01:59 pug cjh - you answered my question before I would have asked :)
01:59 cjh that wasnt english... close enough.
01:58 cjh and jquery updates are far easier to maintain, the underlying classes/ids change far less than the code (somewhere between never and rarely)
01:58 dcook pug: Lots of useful help out there on Jquery's website, stackoverflow, etc.
01:58 jcamins QED :)
01:58 dcook CSS is incredibly simple (although cross-browser CSS can sometimes be a pain). Jquery also makes using Javascript 10x easier.
01:57 dcook Nope
01:57 dcook hehe
01:57 jcamins So, follow-up question: do you know how to maintain a customized fork without tearing your hair out?
01:57 dcook Yep yep
01:56 dcook Which makes it even more fun trying to figure out what they do before merging into newer versions of Koha...
01:56 jcamins Sure, but you've successfully done some customizations, I think.
01:56 dcook Mmm, no, but 99% of the customizations pre-date me ;)
01:55 jcamins dcook: when you first started, you didn't know much about customizing Koha with JS and CSS, did you?
01:55 pug yeah - sounds like it , from what I am hearing
01:55 * jcamins can prove this...
01:54 cjh heh
01:53 jcamins pug: you can learn javascript in way less time than it will take to learn how to maintain multiple custom forks.
01:53 pug rangi -- okay -- thats helpful too -- ill look into that approach - avoided, since I hadnt worked on js earlier - but I guess Ill have to catchup with it
01:52 jcamins Right, that can't be repeated enough.
01:52 dcook There are quite a few IDs and classes to hook onto for that
01:52 rangi because those will survive upgrades
01:52 rangi in the sysprefs to do it, rather than changing templates
01:51 dcook Well, merging/sending upstream
01:51 rangi use css and/or jquery
01:51 rangi and if you are hiding buttons/content/tables etc
01:51 dcook I still have a good hundred changes from an old version of Koha that I need to work on merging...
01:51 cjh so if you can make your changes upstreamable, then it is a lot easier.
01:51 * dcook nods
01:51 cjh the less work you have to do in the future, the better.
01:51 jcamins And any changes that you could make general-purpose, do so, and submit to Koha.
01:51 jcamins Right.
01:51 cjh and keep your changes as simple and as close to upstream as possible
01:51 pug Does that roughly sum it up?
01:50 pug so my best bet is .. 1. make changes in a git stable version 2. make my own package for production 3. merge the changes painfully with the next stable version
01:50 jcamins If you use the release-tool.pl script that I linked to earlier, it can make things a lot more pleasant.
01:50 jcamins Now you are presented with the task of mitigating that unpleasantness as much as possible, and the way to mitigate it is with packages.
01:49 jcamins That's just a fact of life.
01:49 jcamins So it's going to be unpleasant.
01:49 jcamins If you are making changes, you are making changes.
01:49 jcamins Right.
01:49 pug jcamins - but if I have to make changes to the templates -- I dont see another options
01:49 jcamins As I said, I don't understand it.
01:49 jcamins Sometimes.
01:49 pug jcamins - oh it does?!
01:48 jcamins Because git does this thing I don't understand where it manages to automatically resolve more conflicts sometimes in those cases.
01:47 jcamins And, actually, better, if some of the changes are in common.
01:47 pug I see
01:47 jcamins But no worse when using packages than when using git.
01:47 jcamins pug: and, as for your question about making changes in 3.8.12 and then merging them into later versions, it's going to be horrible no matter what.
01:47 cjh http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=debian/build-git-snapshot;h=3f06ff2fa4d62b8901a7a353e5323c2f6d083b7a;hb=HEAD
01:46 cjh oohh oops, I should have pointed that out.
01:46 jcamins Or one of the mirrors that is automatically synced.
01:46 pug I am using the official repo
01:46 rangi is there a reason you arent using the official repo?
01:46 jcamins pug: you should clone the official git repo, though.
01:46 pug I think this is terrific help!
01:46 rangi hmm
01:46 cjh no problem :)
01:46 pug (just trying to be sure! )
01:45 cjh yes.
01:45 pug that one, right?
01:45 pug https://github.com/pianohacker/koha/blob/master/debian/build-git-snapshot
01:45 cjh you can install debian packages on ubuntu, it isnt a git command it is a script inside the koha git repository.
01:44 pug cjh .. is that a git command to build a package for debian?
01:43 pug Im on ubuntu
01:43 cjh ideally you want to upstream as much as possible, so you can avoid having to maintain lots of local code.
01:43 cjh ./debian/build-git-snapshot if you are targetting debian
01:43 pug I understand the issue with too many changes - but I actually do not see any option to that --
01:42 pug k - so basically ill have to build my own packages
01:42 dcook You have to realize though...the more changes you make...the more work you're making for yourself in the future
01:42 cjh that way you get all the nifty stuff from git and all the stability of packages.
01:41 dcook That's probably your best bet
01:41 cjh pug: you can use git for developement and then build packages to deploy for production
01:41 dcook Hmm?
01:41 dcook That's better
01:41 pug Im just saying - I want to make loads of changes to the templates in say ver 3.08.12 and merge them to later versions .. whats the most effective way of doing this AND not using git in production ?
01:40 * dac pokes dcook
01:39 dcook I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying.
01:38 dcook Ish. I'm working on a project :p
01:38 pug dcook? there?
01:36 pug (Im doing this for schools in India - the librarian's esp. the staff's ability is quite weak wrt dealing with lot of text/buttons on the screen)
01:35 pug Im currently doing the changes off a branch of a specific version of git
01:34 pug but do you have a suggestions as to how can I make the changes now - and keep up with the upgrades?
01:33 pug thanks! --
01:33 dcook It sounds like the sort of things that you could do with CSS and JS, but all the power to you. Good luck!
01:33 pug circ-toolbar (not circ-menu)
01:32 pug when I say ' too many' .. its considering a certain audience in mind
01:32 pug as an example
01:31 pug the circ-menu has too many buttons
01:30 dcook curious too
01:30 pug few unrequired columns .. etc
01:30 * dcook is curoius
01:30 dcook Such as?
01:30 dcook (I meant through config rather than code-level changes)
01:30 pug e.g. too many options on the checkout
01:29 dcook What sorts of things are you taking off?
01:29 pug Yeah it is -- quite easy
01:29 dcook And really - taking things off is much easier than putting them on ;)
01:29 dcook I'm not sure I follow...
01:29 pug not just the CSS stuff
01:29 pug Im 'taking things off' the templates -- i.e. the UI
01:28 dcook If it's just template changes, those can do a lot
01:28 dcook Also remember that there are system preferences for userCSS and userJS
01:27 dcook As for circulation...you might have me there
01:27 dcook There are system preferences for changing the content in main
01:27 pug circulation, main etc
01:27 dcook Way easier than managing separate code bases
01:27 dcook You might find it easier to use customized XSLTs for the search results and detail pages
01:26 dcook Which templates?
01:26 pug Im at a point where Im trying template customizations - customizations of say a few different types
01:24 dcook pug: Just curious, what situation are you in?
01:24 pug Im off too - bye!
01:24 * dcook now ponders what jcamins has on the menu tonight...damned timezones
01:24 * jcamins goes to eat dinner.
01:24 jcamins Glad I could help dissuade you.
01:24 jcamins Yay!
01:23 pug jcamins: And that seems enough to call off git on production -- thanks a lot
01:22 pug I see your point!
01:22 jcamins And the result is invariably (in my experience) lots of untested "little tweaks" going in.
01:21 jcamins It makes it psychologically too easy to "just do a little tweak."
01:21 pug And Besides security?
01:21 * jcamins thinks so.
01:21 pug Ok .. I see thats a big issue then
01:20 jcamins Anyone can access any executable file, even if it's not safe.
01:20 jcamins Security is bad.
01:20 jcamins Yeah.
01:20 pug can you pen a few reasons why its a bad idea?
01:19 jcamins Right after using a livecd you don't understand. </poke>
01:19 jcamins That is one of the worst Koha-related ideas I can think of.
01:19 jcamins pug: YES!!!!!
01:18 pug is it really a bad idea to use git based deployment for production?
01:18 dcook But yes, pug, the best advice that cait ever gave me was: "Local customizations? Just don't do them."
01:18 jcamins But lawyers are incapable of writing well. :(
01:18 jcamins It is, actually.
01:18 pug jcamins: alright, ill look into lxc and creating packages
01:18 dcook Contract law is rather fascinating
01:17 dcook The implications of having fiduciary obligations to former employers can also be pretty interesting
01:17 jcamins I also learned that all those scammy-sounding "we'll help you pay only a portion of what you owe" things are not legally enforceable.
01:16 dcook In other words, never sign anything under the influence of anything, because it's all perfectly legal. No one has won on that defense in about 100 years.
01:16 dcook jcamins: Can't say it surprises me. Did you know, in Canada, contracts are valid even if you're nearly black out drunk? Why you have 24-48 hours to go to the other party and ask them to void it, they're under no legal obligation to do so. In order to prove that you were coerced into signing, you need to have solid eyewitness testimony that somehow "proves" that they essentially took your blacked out hand and made you sign the paper
01:16 jcamins I sort of petered out with documentation and generalization at some point, so the best documentation is probably this: http://git.cpbibliography.com/?p=release-tools.git;a=blob;f=release-tool.pl;h=383616583ce044e9cbcc145b501ce8b556cac832;hb=HEAD#l668
01:15 jcamins Well, I do that when I can't get away with upstreaming or mainstreaming.
01:14 jcamins Anyway, I use lxc.
01:14 jcamins Did you know that if you don't get promised a pension before you start, you are not guaranteed a pension in the US (if your employer starts offering one), but you are in France?
01:14 pug jcamins, containers?
01:14 dcook As much as I adore our Americans here ;)
01:13 * jcamins shudders.
01:13 jcamins I've just been reading about contract law under common law.
01:13 pug exactly, what did you mean by containers?
01:13 * dcook nods
01:13 jcamins pug: that's a good thing.
01:13 dcook jcamins: Good point about the large libraries. As for the small ones, I'm intrigued. What did you mean by containers?
01:13 pug unfrotunately not in the US!
01:13 rangi pug: are you in the US?
01:13 jcamins Unlike with git.
01:13 jcamins Hotfixes are easy to deploy with packages, too.
01:13 dcook It's what I'm looking at doing soon, pug
01:12 rangi so why have a full git clone there with all the security risks that entails
01:12 * dcook nods
01:12 pug I havent rolled my package before - but i think then thats something I must consider
01:12 rangi you shouldnt be EVER developing or changing anything apart from config on a live server
01:12 rangi git for development, packages for production
01:12 * jcamins rolls his own packages.
01:12 rangi we role our own packages
01:12 pug unfortunately they arent that relevant - for all to get on them
01:11 jcamins Basically instead of resolving merge conflicts in production (ohgodohgodohgoditsbrokennowwhatdidido!), you resolve them on your staging server, then deploy in an atomic update.
01:11 dcook And hoping they all get in ;)
01:11 dcook Or by submitting your customizations to the community
01:11 jcamins pug: by rolling your own packages.
01:11 pug I want to be able to integrate the customizations with upgarded versions - how can you possibly do that peacefully while using packages?
01:11 jcamins If you have large libraries, they shouldn't be on the same server.
01:11 druthb :P
01:10 jcamins If you have small libraries, you use containers.
01:10 dcook hehe
01:10 wahanui jcamins: huh?
01:10 jcamins wahanui: not when it involves substantial changes to C4::*
01:10 wahanui well, everything else is just extras
01:10 jcamins And everything else.
01:10 jcamins Yeah.
01:10 druthb Monkeying with templates?
01:09 jcamins I do it all the time.
01:09 jcamins druthb: sure you can.
01:09 druthb if you want a lot of localized customizations (which is chaos and madness!), then you can't use packages easily, if at all. But...better not to.
01:09 pug jcamins, dcook - yeah , for localized customizations
01:09 jcamins dcook: no, but if you're doing local customizations on that scale, you're doing it wrong.
01:09 pug druthb, okay - I think ill go for it and try out
01:09 dcook Which, now that I think about it, isn't (easily) possible with packages?
01:08 * dcook would assume for localized customizations?
01:07 jcamins pug: why would you want to have completely separate codebases?
01:07 druthb There's some help there on packages; it's *super* easy
01:06 wahanui packages is at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian
01:06 druthb wahanui: packages?
01:06 druthb pug, I've done what you're thinking of doing, and it's not hard; just download the git repo into different users' directories, and go to it. But packages might be an easier way for you.
01:06 wahanui :)
01:06 druthb wahanui: botsnack cookie
01:05 druthb botsnack cookie
01:05 * druthb nods
01:05 wahanui Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
01:05 druthb wahanui: druthb?
01:05 pug :)
01:05 druthb wahanui is a bot. :P
01:02 pug what would you say whanui?
01:02 pug anyone knows any helpful post? -- shall I just groundup build from git repos with separate document root folders?
01:01 pug Each deplyment with its separate DB and separate perl modules (C4, Intranet, Opac etc) -- on the same server
00:59 pug I needed to test a multisite deployment of koha
00:59 wahanui salut, pug
00:58 pug Hi wahanui
00:58 wahanui hola, pug
00:58 pug Hi there
00:22 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10083 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , In Transit string doesn't get translated in the staff interface
00:22 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 10083 [3.10.x] In Transit string doesn't get translated in the staff interface
00:22 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #126: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.10.x/126/