IRC log for #koha, 2011-10-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:30 mtj rangi: yeah, thats my favourite bit too
00:30 mtj its very relevant to the Koha project
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00:53 rangi mtj: i concur
00:55 chris_n2 heya rangi
00:55 rangi heya chris_n2 :) hows things?
00:55 chris_n2 too busy
00:55 rangi figured :)
01:03 talljoy_away is now known as talljoy
01:20 jcamins is now known as jcamins_away
01:21 chris_n2 ok, off to sleep so I can stay awake during the meeting in a few hours :-)
01:22 rangi :)
01:22 rangi sleep well
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02:55 mtj Koha repo on bitbucket -> https://bitbucket.org/koha/koha/overview
02:55 rangi oh cool
02:56 mtj spread the aroha round...
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02:59 druthb joined #koha
02:59 druthb o/
03:01 mtj heya druthb
03:01 druthb hi, mtj.  :D
03:13 rangi heya druthb
03:15 eythian http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoug[…]for-mark-pilgrim/ <-- Mark "Dive Into *" Pilgrim seems to have pulled a _why.
03:17 rangi yeah
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03:24 eythian wahanui: \where \is he is also <reply>He \is INSIDE the computer!
03:24 wahanui OK, eythian.
03:24 eythian where is he?
03:24 wahanui he is gone again
03:24 eythian where is he?
03:24 wahanui he is gone again
03:24 eythian where is he
03:24 wahanui well, he is gone again
03:24 eythian odd
03:24 eythian wahanui: literal \where is he
03:24 wahanui OK, eythian.
03:24 * druthb waves to rangi and eythian
03:24 eythian hrm
03:24 eythian hiya
03:25 rangi hmm
03:26 rangi how do a i type an acute
03:26 rangi an e with one
03:26 eythian
03:26 eythian like that
03:26 rangi cut and paste
03:26 eythian compose-e-'
03:26 rangi that works :)
03:26 rangi ta
03:26 eythian :)
03:41 eythian wahanui: you heard me is <reply>Doesn't mean I was paying attention, $who
03:41 wahanui OK, eythian.
03:41 eythian wahanui: you heard me
03:41 wahanui eythian: huh?
03:41 eythian wahanui: \you heard me is <reply>Doesn't mean I was paying attention, $who
03:41 wahanui i already had it that way, eythian.
03:41 eythian no wahanui, \you heard me is <reply>Doesn't mean I was paying attention, $who
03:41 wahanui i already had it that way, eythian.
03:41 eythian wahanui: you heard me
03:41 wahanui eythian: excuse me?
03:41 * eythian is having no botluck today
03:43 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6895] Diacritics in Pootle/po files are broken in source text <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6895>
03:49 druthb rangi:  thanks for the push on Bug 6867.  :)  Glad to get that one whipped.
03:49 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6867 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, ruth, ASSIGNED , datelastseen is not imported from marc file
03:50 rangi no worries
03:50 rangi was easy to test
03:50 druthb :)
03:50 * druthb likes lil patches.
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05:12 cait good morning #koha
05:12 eythian hi cait
05:12 cait morning mr robin :)
05:12 cait ah sorry
05:12 cait evening
05:13 eythian how's things?
05:21 cait hm still dark outside
05:21 cait not used to the shorter days yet
05:22 eythian still light outside. Not used to that either.
05:22 cait and how's things on the other side?
05:22 cait hehe
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05:43 wajasu i did a git clone against git master.  i am going to try to submit a patch, but its basically the same 1 line change:  adding utf8::downgrade($line); before the $pdf->Add($line); so that the 2 byte unicode C3BC will get written as FC and the todays Latin font based PDFs will map the FC to udiaresis.
05:44 eythian It's still worth submitting so that it gets tested and follows the patch workflow stuff properly
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05:48 wajasu the original bug2499 really describes supporting foreign languages in PDFs.  my patch would just let current Latin1 standard fonts in the PDF spec work better.
05:48 ropuch Morning #koha
05:51 cait hi ropuch :)
05:57 wajasu I could try coding a new label-create-pdf.pl that supported truetype, which i also got working but i need to draw the text differently, plus i'd need a new column to support the path to be used to embed.
05:58 wajasu i'm wondering if you are really looking to support solr.  i am a java guys and could knock that out for ya.
05:59 rangi dont think it requires any hacking of java, and its in one of biblibres branches already
06:00 rangi its just using the api
06:00 wajasu ok.
06:00 ropuch cait: I'v got Lokalize plugin that properly display file:line in which translated term is [;
06:00 rangi what needs to be done for it to go in koha, is it needs to not break zebra support
06:00 rangi thats the bit that is waiting
06:02 wajasu to support the z3950 services?
06:02 rangi to still be able to use zebra for indexing
06:02 rangi for those who want
06:03 rangi theres no reason it can't support both and users choose
06:03 kulps Hey folks, I've finally started to import our books to the hackerspace's library and was wondering if there is a way (either built in or by extension) to show random books on the OPAC main screen? Or to be able to browse all books?
06:03 wajasu true.
06:05 eythian kulps: there's scripts floating around to show new stuff, a bit of hacking they could to random stuff.
06:05 eythian *do
06:06 kulps hmm, where should I start looking? In the forums or the wiki, somewhere else?
06:07 cait hm i think oleonard's blog has one solution
06:07 cait owen's blog
06:07 wahanui owen's blog is http://www.myacpl.org/koha/
06:11 ropuch kulps: an there was Nicholas van Rheede van Oudtshoorn (huh) post on koha-devel
06:11 wajasu since utf8 supports more 1112064 codepoints (1-4 8bit bytes), maybe the pdf creators should just embed a unicode font.  Are we restricting chars to be <256 ascii code? do may marc21/xml records contain foreign language characters?
06:12 cait not sure about the question?
06:12 cait we have hebre and all that, french have lots of diacritics
06:12 kulps ropuch, do you maybe have a link?
06:12 rangi arabic too
06:12 cait hebrew
06:12 cait yeah, koha is very international
06:12 ropuch kulps: http://comments.gmane.org/gman[…]s.koha.devel/6574
06:12 cait this is a blocker bug for lots of people
06:13 eythian I'm a little surprised there's no standard unicode font for PDF
06:13 kulps ropuch, thanks very much. I'll give it a whirl.
06:13 ropuch cait: but afair it's your libraray with this nice virtual keyboard solution?
06:13 wajasu so even if I patch the diacritics for latin1 (iso8859-1) folks want their own diacritics.
06:14 cait ropuch: yes, they have hebrew records
06:15 alex_a hello #koha
06:15 wajasu now that I've read the pdf spec and know way too much, i might give it a shot, embedding the trutype font.
06:15 wajasu my library is academic and lots of german, swedish, jewish, arabic authors.
06:16 cait ropuch: I have put the code for the screen keyboard on the wiki :)
06:16 ropuch cait: I stil have the code from you somewhere [;
06:17 kulps also, the wiki doesnt mention how to configure Koha for LDAP authentication, is there a seperate guide somewhere?
06:19 kulps hmm
06:19 kulps wait
06:19 kulps maybe I found something
06:19 eythian there's guides around, I'm pretty sure
06:20 cait ropuch:  :)
06:21 cait ropuch: tidied it up a little, the page is here:http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]C_screen_keyboard
06:21 cait kulps: there is something on the bywater blog
06:22 cait http://bywatersolutions.com/20[…]work-in-koha-3-4/
06:23 kulps thanks
06:24 kulps I'm not sure I'll be strong at ldap by the time I'm done integrating everything with it, but I'll certainly be beter
06:24 ropuch cait: bookmarks updated ;)
06:24 cait :)
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06:26 kulps cait, is bywater a koha consulting group?
06:27 cait it's a koha support provider
06:28 cait kulps: http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/
06:31 wajasu i had tried my 3.02 library labels, and also with3.4.4 and HEAD, and it seems the 1st line in my librarians template is missing.  does anyone remember something like that happening.  where after an upgrade the label templates needed rework.
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06:38 reiveune hello
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06:50 rangi hi reiveune
06:50 reiveune hi rangi
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06:52 magnus_away is now known as magnuse
06:52 rangi morning magnuse
06:53 magnuse kia ora rangi
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07:13 kf good morning #koha
07:14 magnuse guten morgen kf and #koha
07:15 rangi wb kf
07:15 magnuse meeting in 3 hours minus 15 minutes, right? http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]g,_5_October_2011
07:16 kf yep
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07:30 kf mtj: around?
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07:35 Oak Guten Tag kf
07:35 Oak hello #koha
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07:37 kf hi Oak :)
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08:35 wajasu ok. i sent a patch for bug 2246.  my code change(1 line) to comments ratio is pretty high though :)
08:35 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2246 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, NEW , Label printing doesn't work with Unicode characters
08:35 matts_away is now known as matts
08:35 kf wajasu: I commented - I am a bit confused
08:35 kf becasue to my knowledge umlauts work
08:36 kf other thigns like cyrillic failed for me, but the umlauts I had tested
08:36 kf like your example: Jürgen
08:36 wajasu really. for barcode labels?
08:36 kf yeah, I put a comment into the bug
08:37 kf comment 8
08:37 wajasu yeah. i see
08:38 wajasu i am trying to understand why my umlauts weren't working.
08:38 wajasu maybe its how my data got imported into koha from a legacy pc library system.
08:39 kf perhaps it's a different character - I am using a german keyboard of course
08:39 wajasu maybe my database holds encoded U+C3BC and thats what is passing through, so the latin1 mapping wasn't working.
08:39 kf if you use u + .. for typing, it might be different
08:40 kf could be
08:40 kf perhaps worth a test
08:40 wajasu it was a computer program that converted to marcxml, then imported.
08:40 kf you could try copying 'jürgen'
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08:43 wajasu maybe i should export a marc record to see how it gets encoded in marcxml.
08:45 wajasu I'll look into editing a bib with jürgen to see if thats a problem.  my problem is with records that are already imported from 2 years ago and that were pulled from z3950 servers initially.
08:46 kf wajasu: often the normalization form is different than
08:46 kf making it u + dots
08:46 kf shows wrong in some browsers like firefox too
08:46 kf the dots are not right above the u but a little bit too much right
08:47 wajasu i think i used a marc4j library when i wrote the import program from the old DOS based proprietary library software.
08:48 wajasu i converted to marcxml, then imported.  I had to add holding, etc.  Things show fine in the web browser.
08:49 wajasu maybe i should export my marcxml record, and attach it to the bug?  tommorrow.
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08:51 wajasu anyway the PDF had  two bytes  C3BC  and  showed as two chars. but after the patch,  the C3BC becomes  FC -> ü
08:51 julian_m joined #koha
08:53 wajasu maybe my pdf viewer, which is linux okular, doesn't have some sort of mapping table from C3BC -> FC,  too many point of conversion (browser->apache->perl->DB->perl->pdf)
08:54 kf wajasu: you should talk to chris_n about it
08:54 kf i think the big plan is to move away from pdf
08:54 kf to html
08:54 kf and there might be work in progress somewhere you could built on
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08:55 wajasu yeah.  i saw web based css might be a doable these days.
08:55 magnuse good morning sekjal
08:55 sekjal morning, magnuse
08:56 sekjal meeting's happening soon, right?
08:56 magnuse in an hour
08:56 wajasu 4am here
08:56 sekjal ah
08:57 sekjal this is not the first time daylight savings time has pulled one over on me.
08:57 kf oh
08:57 kf and you got up too early? :(
08:57 sekjal I'll be back in an hour, then
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09:10 ropuch Huh, if only I had found this batch marc retrieve script
09:10 ropuch [;
09:11 ropuch Such time saving
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09:14 jransom evening all
09:15 ropuch Hi jransom
09:15 magnuse kia ora jransom!
09:15 magnuse jransom: how's te takere coming along?
09:16 jransom this is interesting - I can't read anything (though it says someone mentioned my name)
09:16 jransom and cant see my typing
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09:17 magnuse better now, jransom?
09:17 jransom yes :)
09:18 jransom hello Magnus
09:18 magnuse cool!
09:18 kf uhoh
09:18 jransom oh nuts -
09:18 kf ah, my scrolling is broken
09:18 jransom gone again
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09:20 hdl magnuse: kf do you have 3.4 or 3.6 in production ?
09:20 hdl Don you have problems with checkin checkout status ?
09:20 hdl It appears that when editing an item, modzebraqueue is not called any longer.
09:21 kf hdl: no we haven't - 3.2.2 still - once the i18n things are fixed we plan to update
09:21 magnuse hdl: i have 3.4.2 in production, but have not heard of any problems
09:21 kf hdl: I didn't notice any problems in our tests, we are testing with 3.4.5 right now
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09:23 rangi nekls use it in production, as do some of our libraries, havent heard anything from them
09:24 magnuse wow, Patron Import does not want to be my friend today...
09:25 kf errors?
09:25 kf or only taking forever
09:26 magnuse lots of "Header row could not be parsed"
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09:28 jransom this time maybe
09:28 jransom yes!
09:28 magnuse jransom: time to consider getting a "proper" irc client, perhaps? ;-)
09:28 jransom maybe i need an ircr the android ..
09:28 jransom irc app
09:29 kf magnuse: hmmmm
09:29 kf do you have patron attributes?
09:29 kf are you providing a borrowernumber?
09:29 magnuse nope
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09:30 kf wb joransom :)
09:30 kf magnuse: borrowernumber?
09:30 magnuse the borrowernumber was empty, but i removed it - didn't help
09:30 jransom heya Katrin
09:30 kf magnuse: no, don't make it empty, give it something
09:30 kf not sure about current version, but 3.2.2 doesn't like no borrowernumber
09:30 magnuse ok
09:30 joransom test
09:30 kf although it's not using it (don't ask me, it makes no sense)
09:30 kf I normally count from 1 to something
09:32 magnuse hm, that might have worked
09:33 magnuse so you just gibe it something and that's overwritten/replaced?
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09:38 magnuse kf: worked for the first one, but not when i tried with another patron... weird
09:38 kf hmmm
09:38 kf how do your lines end?
09:38 kf and you are using different borrowernumbers, right?
09:39 chris_n2 joined #koha
09:39 kf and still the same error message?
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09:40 kf magnuse: yes, give it something
09:40 magnuse lines end with a " - yes, different borrowernumbers - yes same error
09:40 kf magnuse: I don't think providing a borrowernumber makes any sense, but it's ilke it worked for me in the past
09:40 kf hmmm
09:41 kf could you show my 2 anonymized lines?
09:41 kf and your header?
09:42 magnuse one patron worked, then i replaced that with another, without touching the header, and it says it can't parse the header...
09:43 chris_n2 mtj: is kohaaloha having server problems?
09:43 kf doubled up cardnumbers?
09:43 kf anything in the log file?
09:44 kf hi chris_n2 :)
09:44 chris_n2 heya kf
09:44 * chris_n2 reaches for the coffee pot :-)
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09:52 Brooke CRC Helman reporting for duty! Just do not let me call cadence!
09:52 jransom babe!
09:52 * Brooke salutes jransom.
09:52 * chris_n2 salutes
09:52 chris_n2 wow, that's pretty good for this time of the morning :)
09:53 Brooke I went from wanting to shoot things to wanting to do heavy duty maths
09:53 kf ?
09:53 Brooke State Aid reprogrammed me
09:53 Brooke 4 AM carpool!
09:54 * chris_n2 remembers the 4am carpool thing :P
09:54 ColinC joined #koha
09:54 Brooke "centrally located Worcester."
09:54 chris_n2 I did mine to Fairfax and Alexandria
09:54 Brooke from?
09:55 chris_n2 Culpeper
09:55 Brooke could be worse
09:55 Brooke that's rather good though :)
09:55 Brooke this was Albany NY to a parking lot in Springfield MA to Worcester.
09:55 chris_n2 ich
09:55 paul_p_ joined #koha
09:56 Brooke 0/
09:56 chris_n2 howdy paul_p_
09:56 paul_p_ hi chris_n2 & Brooke
09:57 paul_p_ Brooke, a private question before the meeting start. How did you do to book the hotel in mumbai ? I sent emails, but have no feedback (I try to book at the same hotel as you)
09:57 rangi eythian is all booked, i could ask him tomorrow, (he got all his confirmation stuff including a shuttle from the airport to the hotel)
09:57 Brooke I booked by email, but I also phoned at one point.
09:58 julian_m joined #koha
09:59 paul_p_ Brooke, which email did you use ? 2nd question: did you book a suite with a supplementary bed for you 3 ? something else ?
09:59 paul_p_ (as we're 3 too, we may do like you)
09:59 Brooke it's meant to be a suite with an extra bed
09:59 Brooke and I will mail you details after the meeting
10:00 Brooke because I've a bus to drive soon.
10:00 paul_p_ Brooke, ok. It means you wont be there for the meeting ?
10:00 paul_p_ starts now isn't it ?
10:01 Brooke no it means I'm chairing and don't feel like fishing through email
10:01 Brooke #startmeetikng
10:01 Brooke #startmeeting
10:01 huginn Meeting started Wed Oct  5 10:00:22 2011 UTC.  The chair is Brooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
10:01 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
10:01 Brooke #topic Introductions
10:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions
10:01 paul_p_ Brooke, ok
10:01 ropuch #help
10:01 Brooke Haere Mai!
10:02 Brooke introduce yourselves using #info if you want the minutes to show you were here
10:02 kf #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
10:02 slef #info MJ Ray, http://www.software.coop
10:02 chris_n2 #info Chris Nighswonger, FBC, 3.4.x Release Maintainer
10:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:02 jransom #info Joann Ransom HLT, NZ
10:02 sekjal #info Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions, 3.6 QAM
10:02 ColinC #info Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe Ltd
10:02 paul_p_ #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre
10:02 ropuch #info Piotr Wejman, CSNE Library, Poland
10:02 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:02 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
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10:04 Brooke apparently we have a placeholder on freenode
10:04 Brooke #topic Roadmap to 3.4
10:04 Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to 3.4
10:05 Brooke chris squared?
10:05 chris_n2 everything is moving along well with 3.4 maintenance
10:05 chris_n2 the 3.4.6 will move out on the 22nd of this month
10:05 chris_n2 the plan is to keep releasing as long as we have a flow of patches for 3.4.x
10:06 chris_n2 thanks to everyone for all of the good work!
10:06 chris_n2 and that's it
10:06 Brooke everyone++
10:06 Brooke any questions?
10:06 kf chris_n++
10:06 Brooke #topic Roadmap to 3.6
10:06 Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to 3.6
10:07 rangi we are in feature freeze, string freeze starts very soon
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10:07 rangi to be ready for the release on the 22nd
10:07 rangi if you want stuff in, get it signed off asap
10:07 paul_p_ I've added a specific point yesterday, about BZ5877, let me know when I start speaking of it
10:07 kf soon was 8th?
10:08 rangi yup
10:08 rangi 2 weeks for translators
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10:08 rangi bugs that dont introduce new strings will still be pushed, and any security ones
10:08 paul_p_ #info String freeze for 3.6 in 3 days (oct, 8th)
10:08 kf fredericd: around?
10:09 paul_p_ kf, fredericd works on french translation like a mad ;-)
10:09 kf was wondering if fredericd can update pootle
10:09 kf at this date
10:09 Brooke #help fredericd to update pootle
10:09 kf there are no 3.6 folders yet where you can upload your files
10:09 rangi yep, as soon as after the 8th would be great
10:09 paul_p_ kf, right
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10:10 * chris_n2 suggests delaying the 3.4.6 release a day or two in light of the 3.6.0 release on the 22nd
10:10 kf +1
10:10 paul_p_ #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre, France, applied as QA assistant for 3.8
10:10 rangi +1
10:10 * clrh #info Claire Hernandez, BibLibre
10:11 Brooke so let's see bug 5877
10:11 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5877 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , Offline circulation improvements : upload all files, apply at once
10:11 christophe_c joined #koha
10:11 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens Count Public Libraries
10:11 rangi Brooke: did we want to see if any more votes for delaying 3.4.6 ?
10:12 paul_p_ owen has tested the bug, is probably about to signoff, and is suggesting to add KOCT firefox plugin to git. I agree it's a good idea, and was suggesting to have a dedicated git project for it
10:12 Brooke fine vote on then :)
10:12 thd +1
10:12 Brooke please use vote instead of suggest or message me or summat. I'll be barreling through this stuff. It's a long agenda.
10:12 paul_p_ oups, sorry, I missed that chris_n2 called for a vote. +1 for me
10:13 oleonard My suggestion was that it be in git somewhere, and having its own dedicated project is one option
10:13 kf #agreed delaying the 3.4.6 release a day or two in light of the 3.6.0 release on the 22nd
10:13 kf no votes against ;)
10:13 Brooke ty
10:13 * chris_n2 gets to sleep in that saturday now ;-)
10:13 kf :)
10:14 kf I think the firefox plugin might change with new versions of firefox, different timeline than koha has
10:14 kf so having it on the public repo but as a separate project does make sense to me
10:14 magnuse +1
10:14 chris_n2 +1
10:14 paul_p_ kf, the plugin is very small, until now we had nothing to change, but it's the main reason = be able to release ne versions of the plugin when needed
10:15 paul_p_ s/ne versions/new versions/
10:15 paul_p_ +1 from me, of course ;-)
10:16 christophe_c #info Christophe Croullebois, BibLibre
10:16 christophe_c hi
10:16 slef +1 from me - any chance of bringing the extensions web page back in some form, for that sort of thing?
10:16 kf I think that page needs someone to host it probably
10:17 christophe_c +1
10:17 Brooke #idea bring back the extensions web page
10:18 paul_p_ not sure we need to bring back the extensions page, it could just be a page on koha-community.org (or was it what you were thinking of ?)
10:18 rangi yup, we can point the dns anywhere just need someone to set up the site and maintain it
10:18 chris_n2 are we talking about an entirely different project? ie different webpage, wiki, etc?
10:18 slef I wonder if the directory plugin used on the main site for support directory could do a directory of extensions. I'll go look
10:18 paul_p_ (because iirc, we had an independant website)
10:18 chris_n2 or just a different repo on git.kc.org?
10:18 slef yeah, we used to have an independant website, but we're already a bit stretched for admins IMO
10:18 paul_p_ chris_n, I think we need a different repo and a specific webpage to speak of the module
10:18 paul_p_ (explain how to install it...)
10:19 kf paul_p: different repo is agreed on I think - presentation to be decided
10:19 kf having it in the official firefox plugin directory woudl be good too
10:19 asaurat left #koha
10:19 Brooke #idea listed on the firefox directory
10:19 asaurat joined #koha
10:20 paul_p_ kf, it's already in the ff directory
10:20 paul_p_ (or i missed something)
10:20 oleonard Yes it is
10:20 hdl it is not certified though
10:20 Brooke I smell a link.
10:20 paul_p_ please welcome asaurat, which is Adrien, new BibLibreros, that started on monday.
10:20 oleonard KOCT?
10:20 wahanui KOCT is Koha Offline Circulation Tool or https://addons.mozilla.org/en-[…]refox/addon/koct/
10:20 Brooke ta
10:20 paul_p_ wow ! wahanui is usesull ! great day !!!
10:20 hdl #info Henri-Damien LAURENT biblibre
10:21 Brooke we talked out on this bug?
10:21 kf welcome asaurat :)
10:21 paul_p_ I think it's OK. The remaining question being = who create git.koha-community.org/koct.git ?
10:21 paul_p_ rangi, can you ?
10:22 rangi gmcharlt can
10:22 paul_p_ ok, i'll ask him if he don't read the logs of the meeting
10:22 slef paul_p_: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]_administrators_4 says hdl can?
10:22 asaurat thx kf :)
10:23 asaurat #info Adrien Saurat, BibLibre
10:23 Brooke #topic Voting on Roles for 3.8
10:23 Topic for #koha is now Voting on Roles for 3.8
10:23 Brooke moving on from the minutia of the agreed upon...
10:24 kf #agreed create a new project on git.koha-community.org for the KOCT firefox plugin
10:24 Brooke arright
10:24 Brooke let's go for low lying fruit
10:24 slef (bum! I don't have permissions on the directory plugin on the website at the mo, so I can't tell if we could use that for extensions - sorry)
10:24 paul_p_ #agreed paul suggest git.koha-community.org/koct.git as name
10:25 Brooke okie dokie
10:25 Brooke doing this from the bottom to the top, cause I can.
10:26 Brooke votes for and again me for Bus Driver
10:26 hdl slef: it says also that chris can...
10:26 magnuse #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_3.8
10:26 paul_p_ "bus driver" = is it just a joke, or there's some english subtilty i miss ?
10:26 Brooke nope
10:26 jransom person in charge
10:26 Brooke I'd like community assent for chairing
10:26 jransom gets us places
10:27 thd +1 Brooke driving on both sides of the road
10:27 Brooke I don't feel like I was ever given it and it freaks me out
10:27 jransom +1 for brooke being the shepherd
10:27 magnuse +1 then
10:27 paul_p_ +1 too
10:27 ColinC +1
10:27 rangi +1
10:27 ropuch +1
10:27 slef +1
10:27 chris_n2 +1
10:27 kf +1
10:27 kf now we need an agreed :)
10:27 sekjal +1
10:27 Brooke #agreed I'm stuck with this for now.
10:28 chris_n2 lol
10:28 Brooke #info Packaging Manager
10:28 fredericd #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil
10:28 paul_p_ Brooke, what about going back to 3.6 and ask the question to fredericd ?
10:28 Brooke did this need to be a single person or is it valid to have both Mason and Robin?
10:28 kf #agreed Brooke is elected to chair the meetings (Bus driver)
10:28 Guillaume joined #koha
10:28 Brooke Paul I'd rather not.
10:28 paul_p_ ok
10:28 paul_p_ will ask him privately
10:29 kf I think both are not here right now :(
10:29 magnuse i think it makes sense to have 1 person in charge of creating the official packages?
10:30 Brooke yeah I'm skippin this for now until one or the other shows, hopefully both
10:30 kf not sure they will
10:30 kf only getting later for nz
10:30 Brooke indeed
10:30 paul_p_ they're sleeping
10:31 Brooke #info need clarification on Packaging Manager; might have to wait for next meeting.
10:31 paul_p_ I think magnuse is quite right = 1 person make sense for packaging
10:31 rangi i vote eythian in charge, mtj as sidekick
10:31 * thd sleeps at the keyboard regularly
10:31 kf rangi: agreed
10:31 paul_p_ except if one packages for Debian, one for RedHat for example
10:31 chris_n2 rangi: +1
10:31 magnuse rangi: +1
10:31 Brooke okie dokie rangi has moved for Robin with MTJ as a helper
10:31 magnuse +1
10:32 paul_p_ +1
10:32 jransom +1
10:32 christophe_c +1
10:32 sekjal +1
10:32 thd +1
10:32 ColinC 1
10:32 Brooke #agreed Robin is Packaging Manager with MTJ assisting
10:33 Brooke (this is what you get when you're not present. XD)
10:33 Brooke do we have a proper candidate for Release Maintainer?
10:33 * Brooke was secretly hoping that Chris Squared would volunteer for life...
10:33 * chris_n2 runs and hides :-)
10:33 matts is now known as matts_away
10:33 kf I was secretly hoping he would do it for 3.6 - because he is good at it :)
10:34 kf for life is a bit too scary, you have to make him do it one release after the other ;)
10:34 chris_n2 if no one volunteers by release time, ask me again :)
10:34 paul_p_ chris_n2, you've 2 options : either you accept to continue or we ask publicly for someone else.
10:35 kf we can ask and wait if someone volunteers
10:35 paul_p_ chris_n2, I personnaly don't want to force anyone. But you're doing a good job so if you want to continue, i'll vote.
10:35 Brooke oh he's more than two options. He could move to the south of France. XD
10:35 kf but chris_n++ for his good work so far
10:35 Brooke indeed
10:35 Brooke chris_n++
10:35 Brooke #help someone save Chris from Release Maintainer
10:36 chris_n2 ouch
10:36 paul_p_ maybe the best option is to call on the MLs and see if chris_n2 applies again or someone else save him ;-)
10:36 jransom I vote for chris_n2 (if he wants it) - done an amazing job
10:36 chris_n2 as I say, if no one steps up before release date I'll do it again
10:36 Brooke I've naught for this under Module Maintainers
10:36 Brooke listen to Chris Christie darn it.
10:36 paul_p_ wonderful chris_n2 !
10:37 Brooke Err Nighswonger. *duck*
10:37 * chris_n2 is trying to script it up anyway
10:37 magnuse chris_n++
10:37 jransom yay
10:38 Brooke Module Maintainers? Bueller?
10:38 kf bueller?
10:39 paul_p_ Bueller ???
10:39 kf I think revisiting the current module maintainers might be good
10:39 kf not all are active in the community now
10:39 kf but perhaps we should do that at a separate meeting
10:39 paul_p_ kf, you mean default assignee on bugzilla ?
10:40 magnuse kf: +1
10:40 kf paul_p_: yes, the defaults on bugzilla - we can still vote on the other suggestion
10:40 paul_p_ kf, it's also on the agenda, (misc section)
10:41 slef #link http://bugs.koha-community.org[…].cgi?product=Koha
10:41 slef Kyle M Hall looks like the only default assignee I've not seen recently
10:41 kf yes, but he has more than one module
10:42 slef Circulation and Patrons
10:42 chris_n2 I think koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org is a good idea
10:42 kf both very important
10:42 Brooke I'm thinking that Ian might be inclined to pick those up
10:42 chris_n2 maybe not as the default, but as an option
10:42 kf +1 for optional
10:42 Brooke but I can hardly predict that with accuracy
10:42 paul_p_ we're not on this part of this agenda !
10:42 chris_n2 then the default assignee could set those bugs they do not intend to work on to the other
10:42 Brooke #idea trawl koha-devel for options
10:42 kf wizzyrea would be good for circ - it's not about fixing, more like overseeing, right?
10:42 paul_p_ we arevoting for roles ;-)
10:43 slef ok, shall I mail him and ask if that's OK? If no response in a week, we call for new
10:43 Brooke we are talking about roles paul
10:43 chris_n2 ouch
10:43 * chris_n2 apologizes to the chair
10:43 kf perhaps we need to clarify the role a module maintainer has
10:43 sekjal ^^
10:43 kf and go through the modules at a separate meeting
10:43 paul_p_ for me module maintainer is a help for RMaint
10:43 kf to move forward tonight
10:44 paul_p_ responsible for a sub-part of koha maintainance. But we have no candidates, so...
10:44 sekjal responsible in what sense?
10:44 Brooke yee haw the devil is up
10:44 sekjal for creating fixes?  for testing incoming? for overall planning?
10:44 paul_p_ helper for RMaint. testing/applying patches for a given module for example
10:45 * chris_n2 must excuse himself and get ready to head to work
10:45 chris_n2 left #koha
10:46 sekjal would ModuleMaints have any particular privileges?  a weightier signoff?  QA passing?  ability to commit code to a Koha branch?
10:46 Brooke so what is the community's pleasure?
10:46 kf I think keeping things in order, like a bug wrangler does
10:46 rangi how about calling them module champions
10:47 rangi and making it there role to care about making sure bugs in that area get fixed
10:47 paul_p_ rangi, why not
10:47 paul_p_ yes, that's my idea !
10:47 rangi their
10:47 kf which does not mean fixing themselves
10:47 kf necessarily
10:47 kf right?
10:47 rangi so no extra power, except the power to cajole, bribe, threaten
10:47 paul_p_ right (imo)
10:47 rangi i agree
10:47 rangi just caring
10:47 kf because it's too much expecting that
10:47 sekjal an advocate for a module
10:48 rangi yup
10:48 kf more a coordinating role
10:48 kf make people talk to each other
10:48 sekjal I nominate wizzyrea for one or more modules, then
10:48 paul_p_ well, in fact, she already is a "module champion" ;-)
10:48 Brooke #idea Module Champions hold no extra power save to cajole, bribe, and threaten
10:49 slef wizzyrea already has the websites module which is a bottomless pit. Is wizzyrea here?
10:49 paul_p_ I think she's just lacking the name & badge ;-)
10:49 paul_p_ (some of us will soon look like USSR generals, with 80 medals :D )
10:49 magnuse hehe
10:50 rangi we should email the list nominating people
10:50 rangi and if they dont say no fast enough
10:50 rangi they get the job
10:50 rangi :)
10:50 kf +1
10:50 Brooke #idea send to the list nominating Champions and if their reaction time is low the trap shuts.
10:50 jransom it would sort out who was payng attention
10:51 thd Even when I have had no other time for Koha, I have been fixing the wiki.
10:51 Brooke on we go
10:52 Brooke Assistant QA Managers
10:52 Brooke we've Marcel de Rooy and Jonathan Druart on the slate
10:52 paul_p_ having 2 doesn't harm at all. so I vote +1 for both of them
10:52 Brooke I believe it was said that it's okay for 2, yes Ian?
10:52 magnuse +1 for both
10:52 thd +1 many many volunteers
10:52 slef +1
10:52 christophe_c +1 too
10:53 ColinC +1 for both
10:53 ropuch +1
10:53 jransom me too
10:53 kf +1
10:53 hdl °1
10:53 sekjal the more the merrier
10:54 Brooke #agreed both Marcel de Rooy and Jonathan Druart will be Assistant QA managers
10:54 Brooke QA Manager is solely Ian
10:54 kf +1
10:54 magnuse +1
10:54 thd +1
10:55 Brooke Ian is too slow to escape so
10:55 Brooke #agreed Ian Walls continues as QA Manager
10:55 Brooke Bug Wranglers we've KF and Magnuse
10:56 Brooke anyone else got a hankerin' to keep doggies movin?
10:56 magnuse +1 for kf
10:56 thd +1 everyone who shows up
10:56 kf +1 for magnuse
10:56 jransom +1 +1
10:56 rangi +2 (one each)
10:56 sekjal +1 for kf, +1 for magnuse
10:56 ColinC +1 both
10:57 paul_p_ +1 for magnuse & +1 for kf
10:57 hdl +1
10:57 hdl +1
10:57 * oleonard +1s kf, magnuse, and everyone he missed before
10:58 paul_p_ I think oleonard could also be elected, as he is BW, even if he don't has the role officially ;-)
10:58 ropuch +1
10:58 kf true
10:58 kf oleonard: up to get a title?
10:58 Brooke I'm gluing together Documentation Manager and Documentation of DB since they are the same highly competent individual, not that I'm biased ;)
10:59 Brooke #agreed Bug Wranglers are KF and Magnus (not that this is limited.)
10:59 * oleonard would be glad to wear that badge
10:59 christophe_c +1 for both
10:59 Brooke #agreed and Oleonard wrangles too :D
10:59 magnuse +1 for oleonard
10:59 kf +1 for oleonard :)
10:59 paul_p_ +1 for oleonard
10:59 slef +1
10:59 rangi i was gonna make oleonard a champion
10:59 rangi but he can do both :)
10:59 kf not so many people, we will get some doubling up :)
11:00 Brooke kf++
11:00 thd +1 everyone who shows up again
11:00 Brooke Nicole for Documentation for life?
11:00 kf one release at at time
11:01 thd +1 next couple of releases at a time
11:01 paul_p_ +1 for nicole (maybe not for life)
11:01 Brooke oh fine, nengard for Documentation for this go
11:01 magnuse +1
11:01 oleonard +1
11:01 ColinC +1
11:01 sekjal +1
11:01 kf +1
11:01 rangi +1
11:02 jransom +1
11:02 paul_p_ Brooke, i promise i'll never apply as doc manager, or you'll have to learn me too many things :D
11:02 Brooke ha!
11:02 paul_p_ (too many things in english I mean)
11:02 paul_p_ (for those who don't understand = private joke)
11:02 Brooke #agreed Nicole Engard is Documentation Manager and Documenter of DB
11:03 Brooke Frédéric Demians for Translation manager
11:04 thd +1
11:04 magnuse +1
11:04 ColinC +1
11:04 paul_p_ +1
11:04 ropuch +1
11:04 rangi fredericd: did you have an idea that kf might help out with translations also?
11:05 fredericd I've asked to associate cait to this role (or magnuse or both)
11:05 paul_p_ ( & +10 for the idea to remove translation from git repo !)
11:05 fredericd in order to premare the transmission of this role to one of them
11:05 christophe_c +1
11:05 rangi +1 to either of them (or both)
11:06 paul_p_ hehe... good idea. you shouldn't have said it, they'll refuse to help you;-)
11:06 kf +1 fpr fredericd as translation manager
11:06 magnuse hm, i won't have time to do something like that in the foreseeable future...
11:06 rangi kf it is
11:06 magnuse +1 for kf ;-)
11:06 fredericd magnuse: you can co-host...
11:06 kf that's ok for me
11:06 kf translation is important for us
11:06 paul_p_ if it's OK for you, then +1
11:07 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
11:07 jcamins #info jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services.
11:07 fredericd when could you scheduled that: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ing_and_Shrinking
11:07 Brooke #agreed Frédéric Demians is the Translation Manager with cait assisting.
11:08 christophe_c +1 fo kf too
11:08 Brooke release manager Paul Poulain
11:10 magnuse +1
11:10 dan_ is now known as danmc
11:11 magnuse should we do the whole timebased releases, which features are required for calling it 4.0 discussion again? ;-)
11:11 thd paul_p_ Do I understand that correctly that your plan for 4.0 will be whatever the collective community plan is?
11:11 kf I think that's an important point
11:12 Brooke I think they're both key
11:12 Brooke and we have been quick for us so far.
11:12 sekjal I don't believe it's reasonable to schedule feature releases on a timetable
11:12 sekjal we tried that before with 3.2, and it.... didn't work so well
11:13 paul_p_ sekjal, and my -late- answer to this concern does fix your question ?
11:13 paul_p_ or no ?
11:13 paul_p_ of course i'm for time based releases ! i was the 1st to use the term !
11:13 sekjal I still hold that timebased releases on the 3.X line are the way to go, with a feature-based 4.0 being released when all its parts are actually ready
11:13 slef -1 no role appointments for 4.0 yet, especially without any details.
11:13 magnuse sekjal: +1
11:14 Brooke I concur slef
11:14 * oleonard too
11:14 sekjal hopefully, all the stuff we plan for in 1 year will be ready in 1 year
11:14 sekjal and we can jump right from 3.8 to 4.0
11:14 Brooke I appreciate the idea of parallel development, but perhaps when we have two like releases: either two feature based or two time based.
11:14 paul_p_ maybe I haven't be clear enough in my today mail.
11:14 kf hm perhaps say, when it's ready, do a 4.0, and aim for that
11:14 kf when not - do a 3.01
11:14 kf 3.10
11:14 kf but don't force features that are not ready
11:14 paul_p_ I think it's just a numbering question, that is really a minor question
11:15 slef paul_p_: what late answer? http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]posal_paul_p_RM38 is unchanged since last meeting.
11:15 paul_p_ slef, right, couldn't find time
11:15 sekjal paul_p_: it's not just numbering, it's feature-based v. time-based
11:15 thd slef: On the koha-devel list paul_p_ tried to answer sekjal.
11:16 paul_p_ sekjal, no ! definetly no ! (at least in my mind, seems I can't explain clearly my idea)
11:16 slef thd: got message-id or link handly?
11:16 sekjal paul_p_:  what if the Solr work cannot pass QA by Oct. 22nd, 2012, for whatever reason?
11:17 sekjal would you propose delaying 4.0, or not including Solr?
11:17 paul_p_ then no Solr in oct 12 !
11:17 sekjal ok
11:18 thd sekjal: So the issue may be merely whether the ready features merit the major version number.
11:18 sekjal would the release then still be called Koha 4.0, if the major structural change isn't ready, or would it go to 3.10?
11:18 paul_p_ sekjal, 3.10
11:18 paul_p_ 1st digit is updated on any major structural change being the rule
11:19 paul_p_ I won't call it 4 just to beat chrome numbering ;-)
11:19 paul_p_ I won't call it 4 just to beat chrome numbering speed ;-)
11:19 sekjal paul_p_:  okay, so then you and I are mostly in agreement.
11:19 thd slef: today in koha-devel.
11:19 paul_p_ sekjal, I think too
11:19 jransom so we preomise a releasae and whats ready is in it
11:19 magnuse slef: http://lists.koha-community.or[…]October/date.html
11:20 slef magnuse: ta
11:20 sekjal I'd like the opportunity to see if any other major features can be reasonably developed in time for our target 4.0 date, but that's really details as far as I'm concerned
11:20 slef http://lists.koha-community.or[…]tober/036235.html
11:21 * oleonard must leave, is ready to give paul_p his vote knowing that it will All Work Out.
11:21 oleonard left #koha
11:21 kf on another question: can we discuss lowering the qa barrier for some time? I don't feel so comfortable with that, even if it's only for a limited amount of time
11:21 sekjal ^^
11:22 paul_p_ kf, I think i've already said i've abandonned the idea, as it seems ppl are against it.
11:22 rangi #info stick with time based releases, if a release contains a change large enough to warrant a major version number we use it, otherwise keep on the 3.x one
11:22 Brooke excellent to hear Paul
11:22 rangi is that what ppl are concluding?
11:22 kf paul_p_: with more people doing qa I hope we can catch up on things :)
11:22 sekjal kf:  that's my hope, too
11:22 jransom rangi: sounds that way
11:23 paul_p_ that's my hope too, although i'l bug ppl on koha-devel to point pending patches !
11:23 magnuse rangi: sounds good to me
11:23 thd +1 paul_p_ sensibly sensing the community
11:23 magnuse paul_p++
11:24 kf ok
11:24 christophe_c +1 paul_p
11:24 kf ready to vote now?
11:24 Brooke I think so
11:24 Brooke any other unresolved issues?
11:25 mtj morning all
11:25 Brooke morena
11:25 Brooke well then go on and vote properly you cats!
11:25 jransom heya mj
11:25 magnuse +1
11:25 paul_p_ just one point (already written iirc) = I plan to dedicate half of my time to the RM role
11:26 thd +1
11:26 slef -1 no prejudicing the next release's roles
11:26 jransom +1 for paul
11:26 kf +1
11:26 mtj i bumped into eythian, and we got sidetracked at a pub
11:26 christophe_c +1
11:26 kf lol
11:26 rangi heh
11:26 kf celebrating your new roles I guess - because you got the jobs
11:26 mtj ... just got back home, and remembered the irc meeting
11:26 slef mtj: point of info, your examples git is Server Temporarily Unavailable every time I tried so far
11:27 thd paul_p_ Is half time enough time?
11:27 rangi +1
11:28 mtj slef, will fix that now
11:28 sekjal +1 for paul for 3.8 RM
11:28 paul_p_ enough I don't know. I can't afford doing more, and promise not doing less
11:28 Brooke #agreed Paul Poulain is the release manager.
11:28 paul_p_ enough I don't know. I can't promise doing more, and promise not doing less
11:28 thd paul_p_++
11:28 paul_p_ (maybe i'll be able to do more, but i'm not sure at all)
11:29 Brooke #topic KohaCon2011
11:29 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon2011
11:29 Brooke no other Indians in the house.
11:29 rangi just fyi, i did on average about halftime of my working time
11:29 jransom 16 more sleeps for me
11:29 rangi and 3 or 4 hours of my own time each day
11:30 rangi its pretty much a fulltime job, but the realities are, you have to do probably about half unpaid
11:30 thd rangi: That is good to know as a comparison for such an all consuming job.
11:30 jransom its aery big commitment
11:30 rangi it comes and goes too
11:30 jransom kudos to those who take it on
11:30 rangi lumpy
11:31 thd rangi: lumpy?
11:31 Brooke fits and spurts
11:31 thd :)
11:31 rangi thd: not steady amount, big lumps, then quiet
11:32 paul_p_ I hope that the lot of work time will occur whent i'm "low work needed" on managing my company
11:32 Brooke so
11:32 Brooke we've no one to address anything anyway on to
11:32 Brooke #topic KohaCon 2012
11:32 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 2012
11:32 Brooke Congratulations Scotland :D
11:32 magnuse woohoo!
11:33 kf whooohoooooo!
11:33 kf slef++ coop++ (?)
11:33 jcamins Yippee!
11:33 thd slef: How do you propose choosing a time?
11:33 kf I think having it earlier next year was discussed - I like the idea
11:33 rangi och aye the noo (and yes i know no one actually says that in scotland .., at least not as a phrase like that)
11:33 slef thd: Unless there's a strong reason not to, we will got with best availability and weather, probably June.
11:33 Brooke he chooses the one that's convenient to him as host.
11:34 jransom yay - i nve never been toscotland and my great grandads were scottish and irish andfrench and english
11:34 jcamins rangi: you'd be surprised.
11:34 kf I think the host decides
11:34 nengard joined #koha
11:34 kf trying not to make it the same time as other important things
11:34 slef kf: yes, there are many festivals in Edinburgh which we cannot outbid for venues and so on.
11:34 jransom but not sure i'll be able to swing 2 trips in same financial year
11:35 paul_p_ Brooke, some details about the votes ?
11:35 slef jransom: when is your financial year break?
11:35 sekjal slef:  just so long as it's not late October; missing 3 Halloween's in a row is too much for my family!
11:35 Brooke paul ask nengard for good numbers there's a link here
11:35 Brooke we can make it public I suppose yes nicole?
11:35 thd jransom: Change your financial calendar to suit.
11:35 wahanui thd: that doesn't look right
11:35 jransom 30 june - but thats not a reason to influence date choice
11:35 wahanui left #koha
11:35 wahanui joined #koha
11:35 nengard Brooke you want to remove the names and such before making it public
11:35 nengard keep it anonymous
11:36 nengard before putting it on the wiki
11:36 nengard like last year
11:36 Brooke arright good point
11:36 kf yes, important point
11:36 kf people have not agreed to make the data public
11:36 slef #info I thank all voters and koha-community on behalf of the co-op. We'll get moving and be in touch.
11:36 rangi coolio
11:36 nengard #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions, Documentation Manager
11:36 jransom i'm going to head off folks - see some of yuou in Mumbai and maybe the rest in Scotland!
11:37 Brooke #topic Global Bug Squashing Days
11:37 Topic for #koha is now Global Bug Squashing Days
11:37 jransom congrats slef
11:37 jransom left #koha
11:37 rangi they rule
11:37 rangi thats my input on the subject
11:37 magnuse there is a gbsd on this coming friday, as a last sprint to the string freeze http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]bug_squashing_day
11:37 magnuse be there or be []
11:38 paul_p_ hi nengard. Do you have some details about KohaCon12 vote ?
11:38 paul_p_ (number of votes, % ...)
11:38 jcamins magnuse: why are they always on Fridays?
11:38 paul_p_ magnuse: this time all BibLibre will join GBSD for all the day.
11:38 jwagner joined #koha
11:38 kf because fridays are for fun things? :)
11:38 kf biblibre++
11:38 magnuse jcamins: initally because biblibre have their community days on fridays, but it cn be changed, of course
11:38 nengard 88 votes
11:38 magnuse biblibre++
11:39 nengard 74 voted for Edinburgh as the first choice
11:39 jcamins magnuse: ah. I have no objection to keeping them on Fridays for now, I was just wondering.
11:39 slef this GBSD is far enough into a month I may be able to take part... if my colleagues get moving with the month-start admin today/tomorrow
11:39 kf nice!
11:39 nengard 12 voted for Reno as #1
11:39 nengard 2 didn't complete the vote
11:39 paul_p_ (magnuse and that will be the case for all GBSD : we concluded that half a day every 2 week was not the best, because when you've half a day, you need to start and ... it's done. So we switch 1 day every month, the GBSD)
11:39 nengard 7 voted for Edinburgh for #2 and 58 for Reno as #2 and 23 didn't rank a #2
11:40 magnuse paul_p_: great!!
11:40 Brooke not that bugs need to wait for a GBSD :)
11:40 magnuse Brooke: agreed!
11:40 Brooke anything else on bugs?
11:40 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, PTFS/LibLime
11:40 magnuse not from me
11:41 Brooke #topic Old Business
11:41 Topic for #koha is now Old Business
11:41 magnuse (other than to say having gbsd as a regular thing on the agenda might be unnecessary...)
11:41 Brooke did we have any actions from last meeting that neet to be seen to?
11:42 magnuse not accoring to http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]-09-07-18.00.html
11:42 mtj so,
11:42 rangi nope
11:42 mtj oops..
11:42 Brooke #topic Misc
11:42 Topic for #koha is now Misc
11:42 Brooke follow up on the koha-devel thread for bugzilla and default assignee
11:43 Brooke someone want to talk about this? is this summat that will be covered by Champions or is it different?
11:44 paul_p_ I think it differs, but not sure i'm right.
11:44 paul_p_ i've had 2 ideas : having koha-devel as default assignee & using NEW/ASSIGNED status to deal with real assignee
11:45 kf I thought we do that
11:45 kf as long as something is NEW noone is workign on it
11:45 paul_p_ the big point being: "how to detect abandonned bugs ?"
11:45 slef kf: I think koha-qa is default assignee isn't it?
11:45 kf no
11:45 paul_p_ slef, yep
11:45 jcamins I don't think koha-devel is such a good idea. That would greatly increase the volume of e-mail.
11:45 kf module maintainer is
11:45 kf and cc bug list
11:45 slef #link http://bugs.koha-community.org[…].cgi?product=Koha
11:45 paul_p_ kf, slef said koha-QA
11:45 paul_p_ not assignee
11:46 kf phone call
11:46 paul_p_ maybe we could have no default QA and have koha-qa as default assignee
11:46 slef no, kf was right - I was wrong. module maint is default assignee
11:46 paul_p_ ?
11:46 slef paul_p_: abandoned bug = Last change > N months ago?
11:46 paul_p_ oups, sorry I misunderstand you. We have 2 things : default assignee & default QA
11:47 paul_p_ default assignee being someone & default QA being koha-QA mailing list
11:47 paul_p_ idea : use koha-qa as default assignee & let QA contactbeing set by QA manager & assistants ?
11:48 slef I don't like that. QA have enough to do already.
11:48 slef I don't understand what problem you are trying to solve here. I'm currently searching koha-devel for the thread. A link in the agenda would have been helpful.
11:48 christophe_c left #koha
11:49 tcohen joined #koha
11:49 sekjal I mostly use RSS for QA notifications
11:49 paul_p_ the question I try to solve : how to detect non endorsed bugs & how to avoid having useless default assignees
11:50 thd slef: The issue was raised on the koha-devel list in August.
11:50 slef thd: ok... I'd not got back that far yet. Thanks.
11:50 slef #link http://lists.koha-community.or[…]ugust/035984.html
11:51 slef I mean, the answer to paul_p_'s question in that post seems simple: assign such a bug to QA. I don't see why defaults need change to do that.
11:51 slef or actually, RESOLVE WONTFIX
11:51 paul_p_ slef, assign such a but to QA = you mean "QA mailing list" ?
11:52 slef paul_p_: koha-bugs@lists.koha-community.org
11:52 paul_p_ slef, but if it's a real bug, I won't set "RESOLVE WONTFIX" !!! it's just that I want to say "ok, it's still here, but it's not for me"
11:53 paul_p_ assigning to koha-bugs what a given default assignee don't want to endorse sounds a good idea
11:53 slef I think a default assignment of TEAM (Toll! Ein Anderes Macht's! = Great, someone else will do it!) is an awful idea and I don't see how it addresses your problem.
11:53 slef But for explicitly disowning bugs, OK.
11:54 paul_p_ slef, well, atm, everybody think "paul will take care", but I won't
11:54 paul_p_ good, we agree on that !
11:54 slef paul_p_: but you think it should be fixed, just not by you?
11:54 paul_p_ yep
11:55 thd slef: What should happen after bugs are explicitly disowned?  What action should be triggered?
11:55 Brooke maybe we can feature them for adoption at GBSDs.
11:55 slef #link http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]han&value0-0-0=90
11:55 paul_p_ thd, have someone else endorsing it
11:55 slef #info ^^ bugs that are unchanged more than 90 days
11:55 slef #info change the 90 on the end for a different number of bugs
11:56 paul_p_ (many have patch pushed, maybe we could remove them)
11:56 NateC joined #koha
11:56 christophe_c joined #koha
11:56 Brooke let's mull this over more mebbe?
11:57 paul_p_ Brooke, ???
11:57 wahanui somebody said Brooke, was it summer now in NZ?
11:57 Brooke wahanui forget brooke
11:57 wahanui Brooke: I forgot brooke
11:57 slef thd: QA or anyone watching koha-bugs to review/move it on when they get time. Could put a list of bugs in a call for help in newsletter or koha-devel mail. Lots of ideas.
11:57 Brooke #idea list of bugs in a call for help or koha-devel mail
11:58 Brooke #help think over the handling of bugs with no endorsement.
11:59 Brooke #topic Gamification
11:59 Topic for #koha is now Gamification
11:59 Brooke I wanted to draw attention to
11:59 Brooke http://dmlcompetition.net/
11:59 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea (NEKLS - apologies on the tardiness)
11:59 Brooke some Gamification achievement stuff was already proposed on the wiki
12:00 Brooke http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Gamifying_the_ILS
12:00 Brooke the proposals they're looking for run very close to the achievement stuff outlined
12:00 Brooke the bad news is
12:00 Brooke they're do very soon
12:00 Brooke (like 15th October)
12:00 Brooke so
12:00 Brooke here's what I have in my crazy head
12:00 Brooke submit summat
12:01 Brooke if they like it, then great
12:01 Brooke it's not actual coding
12:01 Brooke so I'm up for it
12:01 wizzyrea go for it
12:01 Brooke if they don't like it
12:01 Brooke we have a nice armature for the stuff we were gonna do anyway
12:01 Brooke at least in one department.
12:02 magnuse what's not to like? ;-)
12:02 mtj http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=ko[…]idy/.git;a=commit is back up?
12:02 magnuse mtj: works for me!
12:02 Brooke k I shall take thy silence as a sign of assent.
12:03 wizzyrea yes, i'll help you
12:03 thd Brooke: I see a strategy for gaming the library for achievement which would abuse the circulation desk.
12:03 kf back
12:03 paul_p_ Brooke, I keep silent because i've nothing to say (& i'm having lunch, i admit ;-) )
12:03 mtj magnuse: ta :)
12:04 wizzyrea thd: the features are completely optional
12:04 * rangi has to go to sleep
12:04 magnuse Brooke: do it on the wiki and we can all chime in if we see fit?
12:04 Brooke will put it there when I've got summat
12:04 magnuse yay
12:04 Brooke excellent idea.
12:04 thd Brooke: Yes, I understand that those are ideas for scoring points and not rules.
12:05 Brooke #topic coding guidelines
12:05 Topic for #koha is now coding guidelines
12:05 * thd caused a stack overflow in the circulation system.   High score :)
12:05 wizzyrea not that kind ofachievement
12:05 Brooke (last point in the agenda before setting the time and date! Woot!)
12:06 Brooke take it away mtj, methinks
12:06 thd The examples of perl tidy in action are down.
12:06 mtj thd: but are now back up?
12:08 mtj but regardless of my examples.... lets vote :)
12:08 slef mtj: could you paste how many lines are changed (I think it's in the whatchanged output?)
12:09 mtj slef: i dont know how to do that...
12:09 slef mtj: git whatchanged -1 # IIRC
12:09 mtj hmm, 1 tic...
12:09 * slef checks that here
12:09 slef that's not it... 1mo
12:10 matts_away is now known as matts
12:10 kf I hve no strong opinion about the coding thing - make it consistent and choose one, change code not at once but bit by bit perhaps
12:10 paul_p_ kf++
12:10 wizzyrea kf++
12:10 ColinC kf+
12:10 slef mtj: git format-patch -o .. 'HEAD^'
12:10 wizzyrea (and publish it somewhere)
12:10 thd kf++
12:11 kf oh wow
12:11 kf :)
12:11 slef that will show lines like
12:11 slef filename | 4 ++--
12:11 slef paste those lines
12:11 kf yep, important, document it, make it easy to find
12:11 kf and easy to use
12:11 slef from near the start of the patch file
12:11 paul_p_ My 2nd concern being : don't spend time reinventing the wheel, spend time hacking
12:11 kf choose an existnig style, not create one
12:11 * magnuse agrees with kf
12:12 ColinC Agreed
12:12 thd mtj: I think that consistency within each file is sufficient.
12:12 Brooke believe perltidy is what's on the table, yes/
12:12 paul_p_ kf, yep, that's what I meaned ;-)
12:12 slef ok, let me explain my concern
12:12 slef the perltidyrc (koha-style in mtj's examples) was an attempt to standardise what was already happening
12:13 slef if we switch to another style, it may be a big disruption for little gain
12:13 slef but it may be that no-one was using the perltidyrc any more anyway, so that will also be a disruption
12:13 slef in which case we might as well pick anything except pbp.
12:13 paul_p_ good point (except i'm not sur all the script already have "koha-style")
12:14 oleonard joined #koha
12:14 paul_p_ why "except pbp" ?
12:14 slef paul_p_: do biblibre still code to 178-char line length?
12:14 mtj http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=ko[…]c127fcec56e825cf3
12:14 thd :)
12:14 slef pbp is not documented in FOSS anywhere as far as I can tell.
12:14 paul_p_ slef, dunno, we don't have an explicit rule
12:15 mtj slef:  so koha-style has the least change from current
12:15 slef 12 Circulation.pm.gnu-style       | 1730 +++++++++++++++++-----------------
12:15 slef
12:15 slef 13  Circulation.pm.koha-style      | 1673 +++++++++++++++++----------------
12:15 slef
12:15 slef 14  Circulation.pm.pbp-style       | 2037 +++++++++++++++++++++++-----------------
12:15 slef
12:15 slef 15  Circulation.pm.perlstyle-style | 2045 +++++++++++++++++++++++-----------------
12:15 slef
12:15 slef mtj++
12:15 magnuse mtj++
12:15 slef mtj: but all are bigger than I thought, so probably no-one uses koha-style explicitly either
12:16 ColinC I think at present no style is in operation
12:16 paul_p_ I think so
12:16 * wizzyrea suspects there was not enough suggesting that people should use it, lately
12:16 slef for comparison, Circulation.pm is about 3000 lines
12:17 jcamins FWIW, I have no idea how one would go about using this.
12:17 mtj slef, yep 'koha-style' perltidy is not really offiical, so not enforced
12:17 mtj ok, so shall we vote on this issue?
12:17 * magnuse has been following koha rather closely for 3 odd years, and can't remember seeing anything about any explicit coding styles...
12:18 slef jcamins: run perltidy OPTIONS FILENAMES before commit.
12:18 mtj magnuse: yes and yes
12:18 jcamins slef: that should be documented somewhere.
12:18 slef jcamins: will do if I'm correct ;-)
12:18 slef jcamins: also we could probably put vim and emacs tags into the files to trigger smart editors to adapt
12:18 thd slef: Is the actual practise of continuing to not have an official style an option we are considering?
12:19 slef thd: we could consider it but I wouldn't advocate it strongly.
12:19 paul_p_ thd, I would prefer to have a rule !
12:19 slef perlstyle-style and pbp-style are so close in disruptiveness, I'd really prefer we pick the more FOSS perlstyle-style
12:20 jwagner Are you proposing to reject patches that aren't written to style?
12:20 jwagner Or have the QA person change them?
12:20 ColinC I'd agree with slef I think use defaults is easier than suggesting people use exceptions
12:20 slef I don't think transition has been discussed at all yet, has it?
12:21 paul_p_ other option (dunno if it's a good one), have a big patch at the beginning of 3.8
12:21 Brooke it was over the mailing list slef
12:21 paul_p_ updating all scripts
12:21 Brooke and I think it was in the way back, too
12:21 * paul_p_ think it's not a good idea in fact...
12:21 slef Brooke: not policy though?
12:21 ColinC I suggest we start first with a recommendation that people use it
12:21 mtj jwagner: lets cross that very distant bridge *after* we decide on an offiical style
12:21 Brooke we're trying to make it policy, yes?
12:21 slef I'd vote: gnu > perlstyle > koha > no-style > pbp # though
12:21 jwagner mtj, but part of the policy has to be enforcement of some kind, doesn't it?
12:22 slef Brooke: recommendation not requirement first I think.
12:22 Brooke aye naught wrong with a strong suggestion
12:22 thd paul_p: I remember a discussion at Koha-Con 2009 where gmcharlt seemed to wisely state something to the effect of not forcing people to use any one style of indentation etc. avoided unnecessary religious strife.  Consistency within the file is more important.
12:22 slef get the documentation sorted, get most of us using it and then we can look at a requirement. Viva Do-ocracy!
12:22 sekjal I'd prefer not to spend QA time reformatting style: it would be better if it were up to the individual developer to make any fixes necessary
12:23 paul_p_ thd, not sure I agree with this idea. That's important to have consistency over coding style !
12:23 paul_p_ Koha is hard enough to hack already !!!
12:23 mtj ok, a vote on whether to use an offical perltidy style , please?
12:23 Brooke how about we recommend that developers use perlstyle
12:23 jwagner I'm not really understanding why it's a problem.  Consistency would be nice, but it is a crisis?
12:23 Brooke or what mtj said
12:23 Brooke cause he's more knowledgeable
12:23 ColinC we should give some doc on how to use the tool
12:24 mtj surely no-one disagrees on this basic point?!?
12:24 Brooke jwagner: it will be if we continue not to act
12:24 paul_p_ sekjal, OK. But if I submit a patch of, say 40 lines, how can I perltidy those 40 lines only ? Should I send a patch updating all the script ?
12:24 thd paul_p_: I agree that consistency is important.  However, how much consistency is important relative to other things.
12:24 ColinC no you can run it on your changed lines only
12:25 wizzyrea (and does tidying 40 lines of thousands make it better or worse?)
12:25 thd paul_p_: Will we be systematically reformatting the entire code base?
12:25 paul_p_ Brooke, there were no rule for 10 years, so jwagner is right to ask. But I think it's good to have consistency though.
12:25 paul_p_ ColinC, how can you run on changed lines only ?
12:25 ColinC reformatting the entire code base loses history
12:25 paul_p_ thd, that's my question
12:25 tcohen left #koha
12:25 tcohen joined #koha
12:25 paul_p_ ColinC, not history, but make git blame being confused.
12:25 Brooke not a bad idea once a decade...
12:26 paul_p_ (ie: everything is blamed to the perltidy patch)
12:26 thd paul_p: Does consistency of indentation matter outside an individual file?
12:26 paul_p_ thd, I would say yes, (but don't ask why ;-) )
12:26 ColinC paul_p you can filter lines via perltidy easy to do in vim and emacs
12:27 slef Just a note: I have voteengine working here. I can evaluate a preference vote if you wish, but I'd need to give instructions on how to vote :)
12:28 paul_p_ ColinC, not everybody uses vim or emacs, & we want to lower the barriers !
12:28 slef I'd also need to tell it a method: Condorcet with IRC, UK Usenet and Schulze seem the most likely, but it might have your favourite.
12:28 * oleonard boggles at the long meeting
12:28 Brooke it's almost over owen
12:28 Brooke HINT
12:28 Brooke decide.
12:29 * Brooke is subtle like a brick.
12:29 thd I am a great advocate for consistency, however, I am concerned that systematic use of tidy without any other reason to modify a file will complicate tracing code changes.
12:29 paul_p_ sekjal, anytihng to say ?
12:29 ColinC thd++
12:29 mtj ... everyone ready to vote now?
12:29 kf if we can't come to a decision here
12:29 jwagner what is the motion on the floor?
12:29 Brooke propose summat to vote on
12:29 sekjal sorry, was afk
12:29 slef I move we take a preference vote for a style now, Condorcet with IRV.
12:29 kf perhaps we should have a vote
12:30 kf but make thing smoving
12:30 paul_p_ well, not sure until we don't know the options !
12:30 mtj pbp++
12:30 kf don't have no decision
12:30 slef Figure out transition later.
12:30 paul_p_ slef++ for figuring out transition later
12:30 mtj options are: pbp, perl-style, gnu/gcs, koha-style
12:30 Brooke one for pbp if you've got a favourite style please mod it up so we can get out of here
12:31 ColinC perl-style++
12:31 thd I am also concerned that indentation styles which do not collapse in vim lead to overly long lines which cannot always be broken across multiple lines.
12:31 wahanui okay, thd.
12:31 slef perl-style++
12:31 slef gnu++
12:31 mtj ah, and option number 5 is ... no style!!!!!
12:31 slef (if we're going to do it approvalwise)
12:31 jwagner no-style++
12:31 mtj slef:  thats 2 votes love ;)
12:32 Brooke he called for a preference
12:32 slef mtj: I'm taking this as an approval vote, seeing as no-one wants a preference vote.
12:32 paul_p_ perl-style++, then pbp
12:32 thd slef: I still think there is a none of the above missing.
12:32 kf not no-style ?
12:32 kf is my vote, don't know enough to compare, but I am all for consistency
12:32 Brooke thd a bunch have said no style
12:32 oleonard some-style++, no-style--
12:32 mtj php, then perl-style for me
12:32 wizzyrea pick-and-dictate++
12:33 slef heh, php
12:33 sekjal I don't particular care what styling we use, so long as 1) it's consistent in each script (so incoming patches follow existing style), and 2) any style-only changes are independently submitted from functionality changes
12:33 thd Brooke: none of the above would not be no style.
12:33 paul_p_ wizzyrea, lol, but so true !!!
12:33 mtj slef: oops! :p
12:33 kf sekjal++
12:33 oleonard sekjal's point 2 is important considering the trouble whitespace changes cause patch comprehension
12:33 slef thd: none of the above would be effectively for current practice, which we have to conclude from mtj's great work on the examples is no-style.
12:33 thd Brooke: none of the above would be a style which we have not yet considered.  Some modified koha style.
12:34 mtj ok...... anyone else??
12:34 slef thd: that's another option that no-one has yet proposed. Anyone could have, but I assume it has no advocate.
12:34 thd no-style yet first
12:34 thd perl style second
12:35 mtj if not... could slef calculate the winner, please?
12:35 thd However, I really do not mean no-style.  I mean some other style.
12:35 * kf is confused
12:35 kf ok, perhaps we have to have a vote about this? using a tool?
12:36 kf to vote? like for the conference?
12:36 Brooke that's what we're trying to do kf
12:36 mtj and the winner is.... ?
12:36 Brooke ooh cool idea
12:36 kf but irc might not be the right place
12:36 slef I think standings are: no-style: kf, jwagner; perlstyle: paul_p_, ColinC, slef; pbp: mtj (+some 2nd prefs); gnu: (some 2nd prefs); koha: no-one
12:36 Brooke if we come up with a survey for it
12:36 slef have I missed anyone?
12:36 kf slef: wrong
12:36 slef kf: how?
12:36 kf not no-style - I agree with any style as long it's consistent
12:36 kf sorry for causing confusion
12:36 slef ok, so oleonard and kf are any-style
12:36 kf yep
12:36 slef as is sekjal I think
12:37 slef any more mistakes/omissions?
12:37 sekjal slef:  yes, any style so long as it's consistent is fine by me
12:37 wizzyrea any-consistent-style++
12:37 mtj ok, can i change to be perl-style? :p
12:37 jwagner I'll go with any style if consistent
12:37 Brooke so then perl style has the most support, yes?
12:37 magnuse any style so long as it's consistent is fine by me too
12:37 paul_p_ ok, so all of you vote for the option that has the most votes already ;-)
12:37 mtj making perl-style the winner oMg?!?
12:38 Brooke #agreed perl-style
12:38 paul_p_ mtj, why omg ?
12:38 mtj and perl-style it is!!!!!!
12:38 slef I think standings are: no-style: no-one; perlstyle: paul_p_, ColinC, slef, mtj; pbp: (some 2nd prefs); gnu: (some 2nd prefs); koha: no-one; (any style: oleonard, kf, sekjal, wizzyrea, jwagner)
12:38 slef naughty no-one, double-voting
12:38 Irma joined #koha
12:38 Brooke #topic time and date of next meeting
12:38 Topic for #koha is now time and date of next meeting
12:39 Brooke how about 16thish Nov?
12:39 Brooke that way it's after KohaCon?
12:39 slef is this the 2am UTC one?
12:39 Brooke given the pattern should be
12:39 paul_p_ slef, yes :(((
12:40 paul_p_ 16th++ for me (not 9th pls, i'll be jet lagged !)
12:40 mtj paul_p_:  just joking  - i dont mind at all :)
12:40 thd +1 16th
12:41 slef yeah, I won't make that. Big co-op planning meeting at 11 UTC, probably including kohacon2012
12:41 slef but don't let that stop you
12:41 Brooke barring objections
12:41 Brooke 16 November 2 UTC
12:42 mtj paul_p_:  omg - i am happy to reach a decision on this topic, thats all :)
12:42 Brooke going noce
12:42 Brooke going twice
12:42 thd slef: The hours would not conflict but I assume that your sleep would.
12:42 Brooke going gone
12:42 Brooke #agreed next meeting 16 November 2 UTC
12:42 Brooke #endmeeting
12:42 Topic for #koha is now 3.4.5 is now available; Next General IRC Meeting 5 October 2011 at 10:00 UTC
12:42 huginn Meeting ended Wed Oct  5 12:41:42 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
12:42 huginn Minutes:        http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]-10-05-10.00.html
12:42 huginn Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]1-10-05-10.00.txt
12:42 huginn Log:            http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]05-10.00.log.html
12:42 paul_p_ ++
12:42 slef thd: indeed. hard to be sensibly awake 2-4 and then 8-22
12:43 paul_p_ ok, have a good morning, good afternoon, good night, good TV, good lunch, good breakfast, good whatever !
12:43 * thd is not sensibly awake now.
12:43 slef thd: no comment ;-)
12:43 magnuse yay - 2 and 3/4 hour!
12:44 oleonard thanks to all who stayed up late or got up early for this monster meeting
12:44 magnuse hear hear
12:45 jcamins Did the meeting really last 3:40, or did I have the start time confused?
12:45 mtj well done all, we got there in the end :)
12:45 Brooke 2.75 jcamins
12:45 Brooke and the bulk in like 2h.
12:46 jcamins Brooke: ah. I thought it was at 5am EST for some reason.
12:46 slef ok I'm linking the minutes
12:46 magnuse slef++
12:46 Irma left #koha
12:47 * Brooke can no longer resist the siren call of the nap
12:47 JesseM joined #koha
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12:54 slef wiki pages updated
12:54 slef go watch whatever pages you like
12:54 thd slef: how does the perl style treat long line wrapping?
12:55 oleonard Oh slef, did you get the official nod for KohaCon 2012?
12:55 thd oleonard: Yes overwhelmingly in favour of slef.
12:56 oleonard Excellent. I'm definitely trying to make that one.
12:56 * magnuse does a little happydance
12:56 * oleonard is sad to miss two in a row
12:56 magnuse is looking forward to meeting oleonard and lots of other people
12:56 oleonard June would be fantastic for me: summer vacation for the family, they can all come along.
12:56 thd oleonard: The ballot was not as well publicised as in the past and attracted few votes.
12:57 oleonard We didn't have the whole Asian continent spreading the word ;)
12:57 magnuse any suggestions for better publicizing?
12:57 slef thd: 80 char I think
12:57 thd manguse: more lead time.
12:58 wizzyrea aight -- time to get ready 4 work nd stuffs
12:58 thd manguse: more vigorous discussion on the mailing list.
12:58 slef Wasn't the aim to start the 2013 process soon after kohacon 2011 has closed?
12:59 magnuse slef: i don't see any harm in that
12:59 thd slef: what I meant is how are forced line breaks in an overly long line treated in terms of indentation or lack thereof.
12:59 thd ?
13:00 slef thd: see http://search.cpan.org/~shanco[…]ine_Break_Control
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13:05 magnuse slef: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ategory:KohaCon12 is all yours now ;-)
13:07 slef magnuse: scary!
13:07 magnuse hehe, you can do it! ;-)
13:09 slef sure... first choice will be to nail down a venue to some dates
13:09 magnuse sounds like a good plan!
13:10 slef I like that step because mle is in charge of it. The later ones will be more work for me ;)
13:10 magnuse i'm ready to propose a talk when you are ready to accept it ;-)
13:10 magnuse mle?
13:10 slef another member of the co-op
13:11 magnuse (oops, accept the proposal, i mean)
13:11 magnuse ah, cool
13:11 slef he's based in Edinburgh, which was part of the reason for proposing that city
13:11 magnuse ah ha!
13:12 slef http://facet.me.uk/ is his personal homepage.
13:13 magnuse "solfest"? that's norwegian! ;-)
13:14 slef http://facet.me.uk/?p=246 is my favourite recent one
13:15 slef magnuse: http://www.solfest.org.uk too it seems
13:19 magnuse yay
13:19 asaurat left #koha
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13:23 mtj fyi:  we now have admin access again - on the nabble Koha lists
13:23 mtj http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/
13:24 mtj ... and will hopefully sort an historic mail-import very soon :)
13:25 maximep joined #koha
13:25 mtj http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]7917.subapps.html
13:25 mtj if anyone wants admin access...? ping me ;)
13:25 magnuse mtj++
13:27 chris_n mtj++
13:27 chris_n we also control #koha on freenode now as a backup in case anyone missed the earlier announcement
13:29 kf cool :)
13:29 oleonard Soon we will control the horizontal and the vertical
13:29 sekjal oleonard: do you have any comments on bug 6970?
13:29 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6970 major, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW , logout not redirecting to login page
13:30 oleonard I don't think we can just remove those lines if that's what you mean
13:30 oleonard the window.close() is used by the cart popup isn't it?
13:31 oleonard And the redirect to about:blank I thought might have been put there to ensure there was an http transaction to set the cookie?
13:32 oleonard That's off the top of my head, but I'd be happy to test if you'd like.
13:32 sekjal yes, any testing you can do would be appreciated.  Not being able to log out is... bad
13:33 sekjal my testing showed that commenting out the lines did allow logout, and anything in the Cart when I logged out was gone when I logged back in
13:33 oleonard sekjal: Are you willing to look at our leader auto-fill problem?
13:33 sekjal oleonard:  sure will
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13:36 oleonard Yeah, commenting out those lines breaks the "empty and close" option in the cart
13:36 oleonard It doesn't mean we couldn't have a different function tied to logout
13:36 * oleonard will tinker
13:39 sekjal yes, a logoutBasket function, the same but for those two lines, would be a way to solve it
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13:45 magnuse hiya clrh and trea
13:45 trea magnuse, hi. o/
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13:48 matts is now known as matts_away
13:51 clrh hello magnuse and all
14:01 matts_away is now known as matts
14:05 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6970] logout not redirecting to login page <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6970>
14:05 oleonard Try that sekjal
14:06 sekjal thanks, oleonard, was just reading
14:07 * oleonard files Bug 6974
14:07 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6974 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC21 Leader plugin no longer auto-fills the 000 field
14:09 sekjal oleonard:  still cannot log out
14:09 oleonard did you shift-reload to make sure your basket.js was updated?
14:10 magnuse is now known as magnus_afk
14:10 sekjal whoops
14:11 sekjal okay, it works
14:11 sekjal at least, on FF7
14:12 sekjal works on Chromium 12, too
14:13 * oleonard tested in IE8
14:15 trea anyone seen a bug with the label creator not splitting callnumbers correctly?
14:15 trea adding too many spaces or anything like that?
14:15 wizzyrea hmm, possibly
14:15 wizzyrea 1s
14:15 wizzyrea that *might* have to do with the template
14:15 trea k
14:16 wizzyrea the label template
14:17 wizzyrea bug 3120
14:17 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3120 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Dewey call numbers not splitting correctly on spine labels
14:17 wizzyrea but that may not be your issue
14:17 wizzyrea as it's marked fixed
14:18 wizzyrea what's the question
14:18 wizzyrea (how is it doing it wrong)
14:18 trea stand by
14:20 trea http://screencast.com/t/tjM7k74vaC0T
14:21 trea I've checked the callnumbers of both items in question, and they are exactly the same. So i'm inclined to believe it may have something to do with the template as you've suggested.
14:28 jcamins trea: have you checked whether the behavior is the same on Master?
14:32 wizzyrea I think this has something to do with the layout or the template
14:32 wajasu chris_n: maybe someone can set the topic on the freenode koha to point them to connect to the irc.oftc.net koha.
14:33 kf bye all :)
14:33 kf left #koha
14:36 wizzyrea the good news, for you parents with tablets
14:36 wizzyrea getting puke on your tablet won't kill it
14:36 wizzyrea the bad news, the kid puked on the tablet
14:36 wizzyrea the good news: it still works inside a ziploc bag.
14:36 wizzyrea problem solved.
14:37 trea that was my next step jcamins, before vomitpalooza
14:37 trea checking now ;)
14:38 oleonard Man, Jane's Addiction played a terrible set at vomitpalooza.
14:38 jcamins wizzyrea: did you just try this?
14:38 wizzyrea yes, yes I did.
14:38 jcamins wizzyrea: ewww. I'm sorry.
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14:44 sekjal oleonard:  the 000 field does seem to correctly generate on save
14:48 * oleonard didn't think it did... will test again
14:48 julian_m left #koha
14:48 sekjal I'm also finding that it auto-fills if I EDIT a record (just not if I create a new one)
14:49 oleonard Overwrites the existing data?
14:49 chris_n left #koha
14:49 oleonard Ah, I see... if you clear the field and click back into it?
14:49 sekjal oleonard:  yes
14:53 oleonard sekjal: Here's a test I just did. I opened both an existing record and a blank record for editing
14:54 oleonard I made a note of the value of 000 in the existing record, then copied the auto-filled spaces from the blank record into the existing one
14:54 oleonard After saving the existing record, the 000 field is similar to but not exactly what it was before
14:54 oleonard before: 00848nam a2200313   4500
14:54 oleonard after: 00848    a2200313   4500
14:59 sekjal ...idea
14:59 sekjal now that TransformHTMLtoMARC creates a default 000, perhaps it's an order of operations issue
15:00 sekjal TransformHTMLtoMARC getting called too early, thus creating a value, thus preventing the JS from working as intended
15:01 jcamins Okay... anyone know how to check if a string *starts* with another string in Perl?
15:02 jcamins Actually, never mind.
15:03 slef jcamins: if ($moo =~ m/^${stem}/) { ... }
15:03 slef for completeness
15:06 jcamins Yeah, after a moment I realized how to do it. :)
15:07 jcamins I'm not sure why I didn't think of it immediately, but sometimes it takes a moment.
15:07 sekjal ugh, no, that default 000 value was in there the whole time; the patch only altered the way the params were called
15:07 paul_p_ pfiou... 5PM here, and I haven't started what I wanted to do today (except irc meeting)
15:08 paul_p_ sekjal, have you seen my mail about "fines in days" patch waiting for QA ? PLEASE QA it !
15:08 sekjal paul_p_:  yes, it's in the queue for QA
15:09 paul_p_ strike : http://translate.koha-community.org/fr/34/ thx fredericd for taking care of what was still pending !!!
15:09 paul_p_ french 100% done !
15:10 magnus_afk yay!
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15:15 sekjal oleonard:  commenting out line 1041 of cataloguing/addbiblio.pl seems to fix bug 6974
15:15 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6974 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC21 Leader plugin no longer auto-fills the 000 field
15:15 sekjal not sure what the side effects are, though
15:17 * oleonard has no idea
15:18 jwagner joined #koha
15:18 sekjal I'm asking the original developer of bugfix 6576
15:19 wizzyrea bug 6576
15:19 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6576 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , changing framework while cataloging looses data
15:24 Joubu left #koha
15:25 oleonard ...the patch of unintended consequences...
15:25 sekjal yeah, I should have done a better job QAing that
15:26 sekjal let this be a lesson:  this is what happens when you rush testing
15:26 magnus_afk can't catch 'em all...
15:26 magnus_afk is now known as magnuse
15:26 wizzyrea sorry :(
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15:36 matts is now known as matts_away
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15:40 magnuse slef: yay!
15:41 slef 3mb download oops. Delete the .jpg for a preview I think
15:41 slef oh and the i.
15:42 slef oh that's no better
15:42 slef bleah
15:42 magnuse hehe
15:42 slef photosharing websites defeat me
15:42 magnuse btw: sure you have enough keyboards around?
15:42 slef magnuse: you can't see the fourth one because I'm in the way
15:43 magnuse ah, that should be ok then ;-)
15:43 sophie_m left #koha
15:44 slef laptop keyboard is unavoidable, phone keyboard is for texting, bamboo keyboard is for when I'm only typing, cykey is for when I'm editing
15:45 slef heh, if you zoom in on the bamboo keyboard you can tell I touch type! ;-)
15:45 slef (they letters are half-worn away)
15:45 slef the
15:45 magnuse hehe
15:45 slef touch-typing doesn't mean I can spell.
15:45 magnuse and what's the publication?
15:46 slef some co-op political promo I think
15:46 magnuse ah
15:46 slef all the main political parties here say they love co-ops, including the coalition partners, but we've seen little support yet
15:47 slef I think that's what it's for, anyway. Someone says to us "help co-ops?" and we often say "yes."
15:48 slef I think it's something like 10% of our resources went on that last year... in Italy, there's a legal requirement for co-ops to help co-ops but it's only 3% I think.
15:49 magnuse did you hear norway got it's koha/free software for libraries organization about a week ago, and it's a co-op?
15:50 slef no, missed that while I was off ill!
15:50 slef got link?
15:50 magnuse well, almost...
15:50 magnuse donum.no
15:50 magnuse not much there yet
15:52 magnuse http://www.bibliotekforum.no/article.php?id=2654 an article from one of the online library journals
15:52 * slef fires up the fish
15:53 oakivil Hello #Koha
15:53 oakivil What kind of daat does the bulkauthimport.pl eat?
15:53 Guillaume left #koha
15:53 oakivil What kind of data*
15:53 jcamins oakivil: MARC authority records.
15:54 oakivil ok
15:54 oakivil thanks yous
15:55 slef magnuse: interesting. Thanks. I'll mention it sometime.
15:56 magnuse i'll write an intro to the mail list or the newsletter when i get the time...
15:58 reiveune bye
15:58 reiveune left #koha
16:01 nengard hello all, i'm vaguely remembering a bug report (enhancement) about the availablilty note on the search results for online materials ? does anyone know the bug number on this?
16:02 jcamins nengard: you mean AlternateHoldings?
16:06 jcamins Ooh, IndexData's gpg key is about to expire.
16:06 nengard not sure ?
16:07 jcamins nengard: what are you trying to do?
16:10 nengard sorry - distracted
16:11 nengard the user has ebooks listed as 'not for loan' and so they say copies available for reference - i thought there was something about not showing 'no items available' and showing the link fro the 856 (I know that's a bit different but it was related)
16:12 jcamins Ah.
16:12 oleonard that's an issue we face as well
16:13 oleonard nengard: In the XSL view we get a "connect to title online" link, but we also have a "copies available for reference" line because we have a dummy item attached
16:14 oleonard http://search.myacpl.org/cgi-b[…]levance&do=Search
16:15 nengard right they don't want it to say 'reference'
16:16 oleonard I'm not sure how you define the conditions under which the availability doesn't show
16:21 rhcl joined #koha
16:23 rhcl Interesting article by Meredith Farkas in the Sept/Oct issue of American Libraries--ostensibly advocating OSS and mentioning Koha, but then quasi-promoting proprietary software "if it's better"
16:23 magnuse is it online?
16:24 rhcl Quote: "Some open source projects, like Koha, have a strong community of open source developers who are improving the code..."
16:24 rhcl magnuse: don't know, let me see if they have a link.
16:24 nengard Farkas, Meredith. ?Open Source, Open Mind.? American Libraries. Technology in Practice (September 27, 2011). http://americanlibrariesmagazi[…]-source-open-mind.
16:25 nengard is now known as nengard_lunch
16:25 magnuse yay, thanks!
16:26 magnuse "I�m still a big believer in open source software, but I don�t want to see libraries choosing software solely for philosophical reasons."
16:27 oleonard Not much to that article.
16:29 oleonard It could have easily been "Evaluating software" and talked about the factors which should be considered when evaluating proprietary *and* open source software.
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16:34 oleonard_ is now known as oleonard
16:39 slef worth stealing the quote rhcl mentined but bleah at the one magnuse gave
16:40 slef if you don't believe in sharing information on a philosophical level, why become a librarian?
16:41 magnuse hehe
16:41 magnuse and free software has some benefits that are far from philosophical
16:43 jcamins Woohoo! I think I just got Puppet to install Koha on Ubuntu Lucid from the packages!
16:43 magnuse yay!
16:44 rhcl jcamins is a puppet master then?
16:45 * jcamins checks the Ubuntu website, more-than-half-expecting to find that that Lucid has been replaced as the LTS.
16:45 magnuse i'm having trouble importing patrons - does anyone know off hand if Tools > Import Patrons handles windows line endings properly or not?
16:47 hdl left #koha
16:47 wizzyrea nengard: i think NEKLS solved that with a new authorized value
16:47 wizzyrea of "electronic"
16:47 wizzyrea or something
16:47 * wizzyrea checks
16:47 francharb1 joined #koha
16:47 jcamins It has not. Not that this would have been wasted effort, anyway. Understanding what I'm doing is always a good thing.
16:47 jcamins rhcl: not nearly.
16:47 wizzyrea so you have a dummy item
16:48 wizzyrea it's not reference, it's electronic
16:48 magnuse jcamins: you'll get it right next time!
16:48 paul_p_ time to leave... bye & see you tomorrow (my) morning !
16:48 wizzyrea http://catalog.nexpresslibrary[…]blionumber=464981
16:48 wizzyrea for example
16:48 jcamins magnuse: no, I got it working. :)
16:49 wizzyrea status "download:
16:49 wizzyrea let me see how she did that
16:49 paul_p_ thx jcamins to remind me that it's BibLibre 4th birthday those days. Should I consider having been choosen as next RM as a birthday gift ? (Is it a gift at all in fact ?)
16:49 magnuse jcamins: ah sorry, i was connecting your utterances the wrong way... congrats!
16:49 wizzyrea yea, it's a not for loan value
16:50 wizzyrea of download
16:50 nengard_lunch wizzyrea what does it say on the search reuslts
16:50 oleonard http://catalog.nexpresslibrary[…]+gutenberg&limit=
16:50 wizzyrea ah yea the same
16:50 wizzyrea copies available for reference
16:50 nengard_lunch Copies available for reference: NEKLS HQ [eBook] (1).
16:50 nengard_lunch yup
16:50 nengard_lunch that's what she meant
16:50 magnuse paul_p_: probably a mixed blessing kind of a gift ;-)
16:50 paul_p_ magnuse, lol
16:50 nengard_lunch maybe we need the authorized value to show on the results instead of the string 'reference'
16:51 paul_p_ so, good bye everybody & see you tomorrow !
16:51 magnuse but happy birthday biblibre, anyway! and wow, that means biblibre was just 1 year old when i started to get involved with koha
16:51 francharb left #koha
16:51 wizzyrea later paul_p
16:52 oleonard Of course paul_p_ has been with us longer than Biblibre has existed
16:52 magnuse yup, i know ;-)
16:52 wizzyrea yea i'm not sure how to deal with that exactly -- technically that's correct
16:52 wizzyrea there is a copy available for reference
16:52 wizzyrea you download it :P
16:53 jcamins Wait... when do you need to add the IndexData apt line?
16:53 wizzyrea and especially since we can now modify the css for xslt in opacusercss
16:53 wizzyrea you can make that online access link more prominint
16:53 wizzyrea prominent
16:54 jcamins Do you have to do that for all versions of Debian and Ubuntu?
16:54 jcamins Or just older versions?
16:55 tcohen left #koha
16:55 jcamins Well, it doesn't hurt anything to have that apt line in there, anyway.
16:57 magnuse jcamins: i don't think you have to worry about indexdata when you install from packages?
16:58 jcamins magnuse: oh...
16:58 paul_p_ left #koha
16:58 jcamins Must just be on Lucid?
16:59 magnuse rangi has some packages for ubuntu...
16:59 jcamins Hm. idzebra is on Lucid, too.
17:00 jcamins magnuse: yeah, but the instructions for installing the packages on Lucid say to add the apt line.
17:00 magnuse which instructions?
17:01 jcamins http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ing_Koha_packages
17:01 magnuse i'm trying to find the link i'm thinking of...
17:01 jcamins @later tell eythian Is there any instance in which it is necessary to add the IndexData apt repo to your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, or is that just stale information at http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ng_Koha_packages?
17:01 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
17:01 nengard_lunch is now known as nengard
17:02 oleonard does anyone actually use the randomly generated password suggestions when updating a password?
17:07 * oleonard is considering doing away with it in conjunction with changes related to Bug 5280
17:07 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5280 normal, P5, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED , Fix password field in members.pl so that the password is masked as it is entered
17:09 trea is now known as trea_lunch
17:10 jcamins is now known as jcamins_away
17:10 slef oleonard: aren't they only 4-chars?
17:10 oleonard the length of the suggested password is defined by your minimum password length system pref
17:10 slef yeah, but by default
17:11 magnuse jcamins_away: here: https://launchpad.net/~koha PPAs for Stable and Development
17:11 slef boo launchpad
17:11 magnuse @later tell jcamins https://launchpad.net/~koha
17:11 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded.
17:12 slef launchpad is bad because it creates accounts for developers without their consent, without telling them, without any way to opt out.
17:12 oleonard slef: sysprefs.sql sets the default minimum password length to 3
17:12 magnuse slef: noted
17:13 magnuse is now known as magnus_afk
17:14 slef I remember https://launchpad.net/~slef https://launchpad.net/~mjr and I think there are other accounts for me there, only one of which admits it's an autocreate. I don't remember what it does if you contact me through launchpad on any of them.
17:18 slef I get ranty about that. Freedom of association is a human right, including freedom not to associate.
17:18 slef evil buggers creating pseuds for people without asking, trying to track us.
17:19 slef I actually think this is worse than facebook. At least people sign up for facebook, even if they have trouble resigning from it.
17:20 collum @wunder 41017
17:20 huginn collum: The current temperature in Erlanger, Kentucky is 22.8�C (1:18 PM EDT on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.29 in 1025.6 hPa (Rising).
17:21 slef @wunder EggD
17:21 huginn slef: The current temperature in Bristol Airport, United Kingdom is 16.0�C (5:50 PM BST on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 15.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
17:23 slef @wunder EgPH
17:23 huginn slef: The current temperature in Edinburgh Airport, United Kingdom is 15.0�C (5:50 PM BST on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 29.44 in 997 hPa (Steady).
17:24 slef @wunder EgBV
17:24 huginn slef: Error: No such location could be found.
17:24 slef @wunder EgBT
17:24 huginn slef: The current temperature in Bicester, United Kingdom is 18.0�C (6:05 PM BST on October 05, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008.0 hPa (Falling).
17:28 rhcl Wolfram Alpha tells me EggD is 9�F below the optimal temperature for eating halavah. And jcamins is the Wolfram Alpha of food who can tell us what the heck halavah is. Firefox needs a jcamins search engine plugin.
17:28 jcamins_away Mmmm. Halwa.
17:28 jcamins_away Actually, that's just the Arabic word for candy.
17:29 rhcl see, what'd I tell ya?
17:29 jcamins_away The traditional varieties are...
17:29 rhcl here we go
17:29 jcamins_away http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halva
17:30 jcamins_away (there are some pictures)
17:30 jcamins_away Tahini halva with pistachio.
17:33 jcamins_away Semolina halva.
17:33 jcamins_away The balls with sesame seeds on them.
17:33 jcamins_away (I can't find pictures of the latter two)
17:33 jcamins_away There are tons of varieties, though.
17:33 jcamins_away Mostly very tasty.
17:33 * jcamins_away leaves for real this time.
17:34 rhcl time to get back to MLA
17:34 rhcl left #koha
17:49 thd is now known as thd-away
18:08 slef Halva is nice, prefer to avoid the stuff from occupied territories that is on sale in the UK.
18:08 f18 joined #koha
18:08 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6977] Support for repeated subfields when importing an authority into a biblio record field. <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6977>
18:14 sekjal jcamins_away: 6977 looks up your alley
18:16 trea_lunch is now known as trea
18:16 slef http://skoulikas.com/sesame.htm is the better one
18:17 trea is now known as trea_away
18:19 f18 hi everyone! I'd like to import MARC21 records from an old ISIS-system and succeed, but I cannot find my records afterwards in the search/catalogue. I guess there is a problem with the 952 tag (LOCATION AND ITEM INFORMATION), because after the import I can "open" the record and view the tags (under the button "import this batch into the catalog") ... but 952 is missing? if my question is to weired, please tell me.
18:19 f18 *too
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18:25 chris_n wajasu: the topic for that channel does that
18:31 oleonard Bug 5044
18:31 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5044 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , should be able to page through z39.50 search results
18:31 oleonard Is it true that there *are* additional pages of search results?
18:32 rangi im not sure
18:32 rangi i know it probaby returns more results than it shows
18:35 cait joined #koha
18:38 slef f18: check if your ISIS export has any 952 tags. 9xx fields are local use, layout specific to Koha.
18:38 slef f18: if not, use something to edit the file to map whatever you do have (852 most often; sometimes 942 or 999) to 952.
18:38 slef bbl
18:42 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6975] OPACBaseURL called as OPACBaseurl in many templates <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6975>
18:51 oleonard Well the z39.50 search definitely returns more than 20 results
18:51 oleonard warn $numresults; -> 759
18:52 oleonard I guess the question is whether you can pass a limit to the search and get only page two of the results
18:52 rangi right I guess we could page through them all?
18:52 rangi would have to look at the code
18:52 rangi I suspect not
18:52 rangi hopefully im wrong
18:54 * magnus_afk has 2 kinds of halva in his fridge
18:58 rangi how did the halva discussion come up?
18:58 rangi I was just trying to remember the name of it last night!
19:02 * magnus_afk saw someone mentioning it in the scrollback...
19:03 jwagner left #koha
19:03 cait hi all :)
19:04 rangi hi cait
19:04 magnus_afk guten abend cait
19:04 magnus_afk is now known as magnuse
19:04 cait :)
19:14 * chris_n greets cait
19:17 cait hi chris_n :)
19:17 ropuch There was third option to uploading file in pootle (beside Merge & add conflict as suggestions and Add all new traslation aas suggestion), right?
19:19 gmcharlt @kohanews
19:19 huginn gmcharlt: Koha 3.4.5 is now available <http://koha-community.org/koha-3-4-5/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 9: September 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha[…]9-september-2011/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 8: August 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha[…]ue-8-august-2011/> / Koha 3.4.4 is now available <http://koha-community.org/koha-3-4-4/> / Key (2 more messages)
19:19 gmcharlt @more
19:19 huginn gmcharlt: Dates for 3.6.0 <http://koha-community.org/key-dates-3-6-0/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 7: July 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha[…]ssue-7-july-2011/> / Koha 3.4.3 is now available <http://koha-community.org/koha-3-4-3/> / KohaCon11 – programme ideas wanted <http://koha-community.org/koha[…]mme-ideas-wanted/> / Koha 3.4.2 is now available <http://koha- (1 more message)
19:19 gmcharlt @more
19:19 huginn gmcharlt: community.org/koha-3-4-2/> / Koha Newsletter: Volume 2/Issue 6: June 2011 <http://koha-community.org/koha[…]ssue-6-june-2011/>
19:20 rangi cool :)
19:20 chris_n very
19:20 magnuse yay
19:21 gmcharlt ok, it should now be set up to announce website posts in #koha-news on FreeNode
19:21 rangi hmm will someone answer magnuse I wonder ;)
19:21 rangi cool
19:21 chris_n nice
19:21 chris_n huginn++
19:22 magnuse gmcharlt++
19:23 magnuse someone might want to update http://fulfillment-ill.org/ a little - "When completed in about two years" - just sayin' ;-)
19:25 * oleonard was just asked about that yesterday
19:25 * oleonard wonders why the mailing list archive is private
19:27 * oleonard applaud's magnuse's deft use of "y'all" in his list message
19:29 rangi heh
19:30 magnuse i have tried to join the mailinglist several times, but i never get the promised confirmation message
19:30 magnuse oleonard: how was that deft?
19:30 magnuse or did you mean daft? ;-)
19:31 rangi heh
19:31 oleonard English suffers from the lack of a second person plural pronoun
19:32 * magnuse 's eyes glaze over...
19:33 * magnuse hates grammar, loves english... ;-)
19:35 rangi woo darla answered go alaska!
19:37 magnuse yay
19:37 magnuse got a direct one from texas too!
19:38 oleonard magnuse: I just got onto the fulfillment-general list and it doesn't look like there's been any posts since Nov. 2010
19:38 rangi see thats the problem too, ppl answer offlist
19:38 rangi so its less obvious that people are getting answers
19:38 magnuse yeah, that's a bit of a shame
19:38 rangi oh i like bug 6978
19:38 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6978 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Notify the user on his account page when it is almost expired.
19:39 magnuse and just the one who asked is benefiting from the answer
19:39 rangi some good stuff coming from libéo
19:40 rangi so who is gonna write up the election results?
19:40 * rangi realises that by asking he probably just volunteered
19:40 rangi dangit
19:40 magnuse moahaha
19:41 * rangi will write a blog post on koha-community and email links to it
19:44 magnuse yay!
19:46 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6978] Notify the user on his account page when it is almost expired. <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6978>
19:48 f18 slef: thank you for your answer and sorry for my late response. But the records have the 952 tag, because I created it manually.
19:50 f18 the old ISIS system is dumb, because there was only the simplest way of book management and nothing more
19:51 magnuse hoiw does that saying go? "be lenient in what data you consume and strict in what data you produce" or something? the norwegian national library is harvesting records and being very picky about what data should go where... they ought to be able to transform it themselves, i think
19:51 collum left #koha
19:52 rangi i agree magnuse
19:55 maximep rangi: thanks =). Yeah and we have a few more patches coming up soon!
19:55 rangi awesome!
19:59 rangi proof read please
19:59 rangi http://koha-community.org/koha[…]ase-team-elected/
20:00 nengard left #koha
20:00 rangi ohh bad grammar in first sentence
20:00 rangi i fail
20:00 * rangi fixes
20:00 magnuse i think chris_n only volunteered if no one else volunteers before 3.6 is released?
20:00 rangi sshhh
20:00 rangi :)
20:00 magnuse hehe
20:01 rangi yeah ill update it to say that
20:01 cait rangi++
20:01 chris_n did someone say the word 'volunteer'?
20:01 magnuse ownership of [a] section
20:01 rangi ta
20:01 magnuse in the last sentence
20:01 cait comma after druart
20:02 magnuse many eyeballs etc ;-)
20:02 rangi :)
20:02 rangi hows that now?
20:02 cait ok
20:02 cait I actually volunteered to have 2 roles
20:03 * cait feels like it finally sinks in
20:03 rangi lol busy cait
20:03 magnuse hehe
20:03 cait why did noone stop me? :)
20:03 rangi let the tweeting commence
20:03 magnuse moahahah
20:03 rangi ill email the list too now
20:03 magnuse rangi: this is nitpicking, but there seems to be two spaces here: "ownership of**a section"
20:03 cait oh cookies on themailing list
20:03 cait finally :)
20:04 rangi thats nz english
20:04 rangi we do that
20:04 * rangi makes stuff up
20:04 * rangi fixes
20:04 rangi done
20:04 magnuse yay!
20:05 * chris_n gets a kick out of huginn's news announcement: "New commit(s) kohanews:"
20:05 rangi heh
20:05 rangi looks like cookies was the way to get ppl to talk on the mailing list ;)
20:06 * chris_n posted the new channel info to the list
20:06 rangi sweet
20:06 * cait should have known that
20:06 rangi incoming
20:06 rangi random message to the mailing list
20:07 chris_n k, time to head home
20:09 rangi im not touching that best ils email :)
20:09 rangi email about 3.8 away
20:10 rangi heh oleonard did :)
20:10 * oleonard sends an in-depth, well-argued, meticulously-documented answer
20:10 rangi heh
20:10 paul_p_ joined #koha
20:11 magnuse lol
20:11 smeagol joined #koha
20:11 * oleonard quits before he gets into any more trouble
20:11 oleonard left #koha
20:11 smeagol left #koha
20:14 magnuse blocking cookies?
20:15 rangi :)
20:18 paul_p_ rangi, my name is Poulain, not poulan (cf the news on k-c.org) + we usually spell BibLibre (not Biblibre)
20:20 Tyree joined #koha
20:21 rangi doh, i cant believe i typoed that
20:22 rangi Tyree has just started at catalyst, she is gonna be bossing me and robin around
20:22 rangi paul_p_: fixed
20:22 paul_p_ thanks !
20:23 rangi just showing her round
20:23 Tyree Hi ya!
20:25 cait hi Tyree :)
20:25 cait hint: you can bribe rangi with chocolate and cookies
20:26 Tyree ah good to know......
20:26 francharb1 left #koha
20:26 libsysguy left #koha
20:26 magnuse hiya Tyree!
20:27 * magnuse calls it a day
20:27 magnuse is now known as magnus_away
20:27 cait bye magnus_away :)
20:34 rangi hmm thursday alreday
20:34 rangi seriousl
20:34 rangi y
20:34 rangi community source?
20:35 rangi what is wrong with those kuali people
20:35 rangi lets just reinvent everything, including the terms
20:36 chris_n2 joined #koha
20:37 chris_n2 we probably should remove H::T::P as a dependency in 3.6
20:37 chris_n2 heh
20:38 rangi heh true
20:38 chris_n2 its amazing where emoticons pop up
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20:52 melia is now known as melia_lunch
21:04 paul_p_ left #koha
21:13 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6979] LDAP authentication fails during password comparison <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6979>
21:28 jcamins_away bug 6977
21:28 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6977 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Support for repeated subfields when importing an authority into a biblio record field.
21:31 cait left #koha
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21:34 melia_lunch is now known as melia
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21:40 talljoy hi all!
21:40 rangi sup talljoy ?
21:40 talljoy i am getting a "software error" when running a keyword search from the opac.  Can't call method "data" on an undefined value at /home/load11/kohaclone/C4/Biblio.pm line 1220.
21:40 talljoy is that referring to some bad marc?
21:40 rangi yup
21:40 rangi usually
21:40 talljoy thought so.  any ideas on how to track it down?
21:41 rangi a bad marcxml
21:41 * talljoy wishes marc really was dead.
21:41 * rangi too
21:41 jcamins_away talljoy: look for a record with UTF-8 in the call number.
21:41 talljoy in the callnumber?
21:41 jcamins_away (if you have a limited number of possibilities it could be.
21:41 jcamins_away Yeah.
21:42 jcamins_away I have no idea why that's an issue, maybe sekjal can explain, but that screws things up majorly.
21:44 talljoy they have pretty straightforward callnumbers, don't know if that's it
21:44 talljoy only takes one, i suppose.
21:44 rangi one in the first 20 returned
21:44 rangi or it could be a really long record
21:44 rangi oen with a zillion items
21:45 talljoy how can i see what is being returned if i only get an error in the opac?
21:46 talljoy was running this command from the commandline...  perl $PERL5LIB/opac/opac-search.pl q='french'
21:46 talljoy and it returns a number of marc records and then after the last one pfffft. quits
21:46 talljoy http://pastebin.com/8bt2kkd7
21:47 rangi yeah so its the next one in the set :)
21:47 talljoy which is?
21:47 talljoy lol
21:47 talljoy that's the 6 million dollar question
21:47 rangi what id do
21:47 talljoy all ears, here.
21:47 rangi is put a warn in
21:47 rangi C4/Biblio.pm
21:48 rangi before line 1220
21:48 rangi or better
21:48 rangi 2 secs ill do a snippet of code for ya
21:48 rangi this is master right?
21:48 talljoy yes
21:49 rangi $pubyear   = substr $record->field('008')->data(), 7, 4;
21:49 rangi its a record that doesnt have an 008
21:49 rangi line 1219
21:49 rangi do a
21:50 rangi warn "title of dodgy record is $title";
21:50 rangi just before the
21:50 rangi f ($titletype eq 'a') {
21:50 rangi then you should get a line in the error log with the title in it
21:50 rangi should help you find it in the db
21:51 talljoy ok.  will try that.
21:51 talljoy thanks
21:54 rangi good luck
21:55 talljoy i'll probably need it.
21:55 talljoy lol
21:55 eythian @later tell nengard your computer's clock is about 3 days out of date, just fyi
21:55 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
21:56 jcamins_away rangi: in what cases does one need to add the IndexData apt repository for installing Koha from packages?
21:56 eythian jcamins_away: I'm not sure about Lucid, but in Debian it's not necessary
21:56 eythian heh was just answering that
21:56 rangi yeah maybe only lucid
21:56 jcamins_away rangi: never mind, eythian answered.
21:56 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
21:56 eythian debian had an out of date one, but just before release they updated it.
21:56 rangi it might be in the multiverse or cosmos or whatever the hell they call it
21:56 jcamins Ah.
21:56 eythian rangi: heliosphere
21:57 rangi heh
21:57 jcamins Cool. I'll move that to the Ubuntu Lucid-only section of my Puppet config.
21:58 chris_n2 naughty space in a filename
21:58 jcamins Which package was it required for?
21:59 eythian jcamins: idzebra, or something like that
21:59 jcamins eythian: ah. idzebra is in Lucid.
21:59 eythian not sure exactly
21:59 eythian yeah, but what version?
21:59 jcamins Errr...
22:00 jcamins Wait, idzebra is not in lucid. It's in maverick.
22:00 eythian ah right
22:02 * chris_n2 did not think that spaces in file names were legal
22:02 chris_n2 but here is one: http://git.koha-community.org/[…]8fc380850;hb=HEAD
22:03 chris_n2 archival lDVD.gif
22:03 chris_n2 and it sends dmake (win32) into a tail spin
22:03 chris_n2 if there are no objections, I'll send along a patch to replace the space with an underscore
22:03 eythian chris_n2: spaces in filenames are fine, but they somtimes require special handling and are often best avoided.
22:04 chris_n2 actually, that looks to be a typo
22:05 chris_n2 based on the naming pattern I think it should be 'archivalDVD.gif'
22:08 Irma joined #koha
22:08 rangi hi Irma
22:09 rangi git mv oughta fix that chris_n2 :)
22:09 Irma G'day rangi
22:09 Irma sorry I missed the Koha meeting yesterday
22:13 eythian yeah, I clean forgot about that too
22:17 chris_n2 rangi: I'll fix it in the morning; dmake is happy again
22:18 chris_n2 my particular form of insanity has struck again ;-)
22:21 rangi eythian: mtj told us of your drunken escapades
22:21 rangi chris_n2 ;)
22:21 eythian he's one to talk :)
22:22 rangi hehe
22:22 rangi he made it back for the last half of the meeting at least :)
22:22 wizzyrea keke
22:22 eythian well had I remembered I could have just IRCed from there.
22:23 wizzyrea that would have been amusing
22:24 rangi :)
22:24 eythian with a pint is really the only way to do meetings :)
22:24 wizzyrea I suppose you're right
22:24 * jcamins agrees.
22:25 * jcamins has all his meetings with wine, but the idea is the same. ;)
22:25 f18 left #koha
22:25 wizzyrea you could put your transformer in a ziploc bag, that way drunken fllailing is guaranteed not to spill beer on it
22:25 wizzyrea works on vomit :P
22:27 rangi hehe
22:27 eythian I tend not to spill beer.
22:27 eythian Only heathens spill beer
22:27 jcamins That seems like a shameful waste.
22:28 eythian It would be, yeah
22:28 wizzyrea just sayin... YOU might not spill the beer
22:28 wizzyrea but your barmates...
22:28 wizzyrea can't be counted on.
22:29 eythian I didn't see mtj spill anything either
22:30 rangi :)
22:32 talljoy is now known as talljoy_away
22:32 trea_away left #koha
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22:48 jcamins eythian: I got Puppet to install Koha. :D
22:48 eythian awesomecross :)
22:48 rangi schweet
22:48 jcamins On Lucid, no less!
22:48 eythian terrible! I mean, great! :)
22:49 jcamins If it works on Lucid, which requires a list of special cases as long as my arm, that means that I'm starting to understand what I'm doing. ;)
22:52 eythian ah, a good plan then :)
22:56 jcamins Also, my EC2 server's running Lucid at the moment, so Puppet needs to handle it.
22:56 eythian ah yep
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23:36 jcamins Has anyone ever heard of BiblioCommons before?
23:41 jcamins Don't everyone answer at once.
23:47 wizzyrea i hav
23:47 wizzyrea e
23:47 wizzyrea a library in our system (not a nexpress library) uses it
23:47 wizzyrea and I know someone who works there
23:48 jcamins It looks surprisingly nice.
23:48 jcamins From a user's point of view.
23:48 wizzyrea it is
23:48 wizzyrea we really need to work on our opac
23:49 jcamins We sure do.
23:49 jcamins NYPL just adopted Bibliocommons.
23:49 wizzyrea mhm
23:50 jcamins Other than the social stuff, a lot of the formatting could be done with CSS.
23:50 wizzyrea ya
23:50 jcamins But boy does it make a difference.
23:51 wizzyrea yeap
23:51 wizzyrea we can learn how NOT to do it by looking at autographics' illuminar
23:51 wizzyrea it's abysmal
23:51 thd-away` joined #koha
23:52 jcamins Wait while it loads?
23:52 wizzyrea yes
23:52 wizzyrea and while it crashes your computer with poorly programmed flash
23:52 jcamins Hey... I've seen these icons before.
23:53 thd-away left #koha
23:53 jcamins Ooh, love the fading!
23:53 wizzyrea oh are you looking at iluminar?
23:53 jcamins Scroll just right and you can make the buttons at the top flicker in a seizure-inducing fashion.
23:53 jcamins Yep.
23:54 wizzyrea keke
23:56 thd-away joined #koha
23:57 jcamins Wish they'd share their solr configuration.
23:57 wizzyrea who
23:57 wizzyrea iluinar?
23:58 jcamins Bibliocommons.
23:58 wizzyrea hmm
23:58 wizzyrea wonder if they would...
23:59 matthewe left #koha

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