IRC log for #koha, 2009-08-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:33 |Lupin| hello
13:07 gmcharlt hi |Lupin|
13:08 cait hi galen
13:08 gmcharlt hi cait
13:09 gmcharlt cait: I'm curious, I understand that German catalogers don't typically enter cataloging records in a form that looks much like a MARC21 or MAB record
13:09 gmcharlt is that correct?
13:11 cait let me think about it
13:12 cait I m not sure if I can give you a qualified answer to that
13:12 cait perhaps explain it for our union catalog
13:12 cait wich is pica
13:12 cait they enter records in pica format, they get records for their local systems in mab or in marc21, wich is new and I m still testing it
13:13 cait most academic libraries catalog to union catalogs, but I think some of them are mab inside
13:13 cait for public libraries it might depend on their ils, I know most of them can import mab and they can buy mab records from their vendors
13:14 cait hm there is also RAK
13:14 cait alphabetic rules for cataloging
13:15 cait I learned to catalog with RAK when in library school
13:17 cait Im not a cataloger :(
13:18 gmcharlt looks RAK (as cataloging code) fills same niche as AACR2
13:19 cait yes, I think thats true
13:19 cait its goes back to card catalogs
13:20 gmcharlt could you point me to an example of what a Pica format record looks like?
13:20 cait I think you wont need that outside of cataloging in union catalog - its not for data exchange
13:21 gmcharlt right, but I'm curious how it compares as a data entry format
13:21 cait its similar to marc21, four numbes, no indicators but subfields
13:22 cait but im not an expert
13:22 gmcharlt ah, OK - still has catalogers thinking in terms of tag numbers and subfields
13:22 cait yes
13:22 cait sorry, I cant log into union catalog cataloging interface from here
13:23 cait to copy you a record
13:23 gmcharlt no worries
13:24 cait why are you interested in cataloging formats?
13:24 gmcharlt general professional interest of mine, actually
13:25 gmcharlt after having spent years work to migrate good (and crappy!) records
13:25 gmcharlt interested in ways of doing it better
13:25 cait I think there are some special things about German cataloging
13:25 gmcharlt also having observed how USMARC/MARC21 tends to *not* take up good ideas from the other MARC formats it absorbs
13:26 cait we got some changes into MARC21 by MARBI
13:26 gmcharlt what ends up happening as German cataloging starts using MARC21 is of particular interest
13:26 gmcharlt yeah, UKMARC did less well in that respect
13:26 cait I think linking authority records by identity numbers is one of them
13:26 gmcharlt it is indeed, although I wish they had done a better job with the subfield $0 proposal
13:27 cait fighting with it atm
13:27 gmcharlt as it doesn't handle case where multiple authorities (main heading + subdivision) are linked to one bib heading
13:27 cait we copy them to $9 for import to koha
13:27 cait I link the linking feature a lot
13:27 cait what gives me headaches is linking between titles $w
13:27 cait dont even started with that yet :(
13:27 gmcharlt yeah
13:27 cait and we will need to change xslt display
13:27 gmcharlt hopefully the Linked Data folks will help save us there
13:28 cait also for displaying 880 fields
13:28 cait linked data folks?
13:28 |Lupin| nope, sorry :)
13:28 gmcharlt semantic web, RDF, and assigning URIs to everything
13:29 cait I dont see that we can adapt that easily
13:31 cait (15:27:13) gmcharlt: as it doesn't handle case where multiple authorities (main heading + subdivision) are linked to one bib heading - do you have an example for that?
13:31 gmcharlt cait: it goes something like this
13:31 cait $0 is repeatable for different sources of authorities
13:31 gmcharlt if a bib heading is like this
13:32 gmcharlt $a Castles $x $tone $z Germany
13:33 gmcharlt suppose $a an authorized main heading
13:33 gmcharlt and Stone and Gemany
13:33 gmcharlt are each authorized free floating subdivions (e.g., in MARC21 would be represented as aut record with 18x)
13:33 gmcharlt although $0 can be repeated
13:34 gmcharlt it's not clear to me how you make sure unambiguously which part of the bib heading
13:34 gmcharlt is authorized by which authority record
13:34 cait huh
13:35 cait I dont think I really understand that - not a cataloger ;) but I have some authority records here, let me look at them for a minute
13:36 |Lupin| bye everybody
13:38 cait $a Castles $x $tone $z Germany is from title record?
13:40 gmcharlt yes, in context of my example
13:43 cait ok, I will have to ask our format expert about that
15:46 |Lupin| hi again, folks
15:52 |Lupin| has someone an idea how to link books to users ?
15:53 |Lupin| to represent who has created a record, say, is it possible to store something in a MARC field that would cause Koha to dispaly a link to the user ?
15:55 |Lupin| cait: any idea ? :)
16:06 |Lupin| bbl
16:07 cait hi
16:07 |Lupin| oh, was about to leave :)
16:07 cait was afk, watching tv
16:07 |Lupin| cait: np !!
16:07 cait thinking about your question
16:08 |Lupin| cait: k, nice from you to think about these things on a sunday
16:08 cait not sure if I have an answer
16:09 cait dont know if MARC21 has fields for cataloger, but perhaps it has
16:09 |Lupin| cait: on possibilit is to alter the template slightly so that for one field it knows it has to look for that in the borrowers table, print borrower's name and make it a link to the details page for that borrower
16:10 |Lupin| cait: here we use Unimarc but the problem is roughly the same, probably.
16:10 cait the link is only for staff side?
16:10 |Lupin| cait: thatwould be the minimumu, I'd say
16:11 cait you could have an authority for the creator
16:11 |Lupin| cait: in the current system the links appears at OPAC, too, if this deserves the name of OPAC
16:11 cait but this would lead to an uathority record, not to the borrower record
16:11 |Lupin| ahah !
16:11 |Lupin| cait: this sounds much clenaer than the modification of the template !!
16:12 cait yes
16:12 |Lupin| cait: perhaps creating an authorised value for that and keeping it synchronised with borowers table would work ?
16:12 cait ok, link would lead to other record created by that author
16:13 |Lupin| which may also be an interesting functionalty
16:14 cait authorities dont looks really user friendly atm
16:14 cait very marc21-ish
16:14 |Lupin| perhaps koha should be modified so that, in the KOha => Marc mappings, possibility is offered to pickup a field from the users table and not onl from the biblio, biblioitem and item tables
16:14 |Lupin| cait: k
16:16 |Lupin| hmm last idea does not work cause koha won't know which row to pick up in borrowers table
16:16 |Lupin| it works for the other tables because the biblionumber can be used to figure out which row to use
16:16 cait ah
16:17 cait sorry - no idea
16:18 cait didnt you plan to ask questions about data import? :)
16:18 |Lupin| cait: that was the one :)
16:18 |Lupin| cait: because in the system used currently these links are present
16:18 |Lupin| but actually I may fave found a solution
16:19 |Lupin| just checking in the db whether it could work or not...
16:21 |Lupin| yep !
16:22 |Lupin| cait: see the marc_subfield_structure table
16:22 |Lupin| each subfield can be a URL
16:22 |Lupin| and each subfield can have a plugin associated to it, it's the value_builder field in the db
16:23 |Lupin| so the only thig to do is to assign to a field a plugin that will fill it with the URL of the page or the user that is just creating the record
16:23 |Lupin| and say the field is a URL in the DB, and that shoudl work
16:24 |Lupin| shouldn't it ?
16:24 cait yes it should
16:24 cait the plugin is a great idea
16:24 cait and when its in a marc21 field you can display it in opac
16:25 cait and one xslt for staff is available you can also display it there
16:25 |Lupin| yeah the designers had a great idea when they designed it, I agree
16:25 |Lupin| cait: wouldn-t that work without xslt ?
16:26 |Lupin| cait: (I thought the url ould be displayed both in OPAC and staff...?)
16:27 cait in MARC display
16:27 cait probably not in normal view
16:27 cait you cant configure outside of xslt what gets displayed in normal view
16:29 |Lupin| ah
16:30 |Lupin| well...
16:30 |Lupin| perhaps not a problem
16:30 |Lupin| and as you said
16:30 |Lupin| it it's a problem then there is XSLT, thanks for having mentionned it, I was not aware of this possibility at the staff elvel
16:31 cait its not there yet :(
16:31 cait but its marked as sponsored in bugzilla
16:31 cait perhaps just try it - but dont know whats in the template there yet
16:34 |Lupin| cait: oh, not very important... those who really want to see i can look at te marc view
16:36 cait ok
16:38 |Lupin| cait: thanks a lot for having helped to find this solution !
16:38 |Lupin| cait: this quesiton was in me for some days already
16:39 cait sometimes it helps just to speak someone
16:44 |Lupin| cait: yeah ! if the person you are speaking to is great it helps even more :-)
16:44 cait plugin was your idea!
16:49 |Lupin| cait: never played with them, though
16:50 cait I thought about adaption barcode plugin for generating inventory numbers
16:51 cait but our library dont want it g
16:51 |Lupin| why ?
16:55 cait ok, perhaps dont need it and they use different inv# prefixes
16:56 cait we talked about it and they said they wont need an automatic solution
16:58 |Lupin| cait: is it true that librarians are sometimes reluctant regarding automation of tasks ?
17:01 cait some of them may be
17:01 cait but I dont think its general
17:02 cait for this library its their first ILS, perhaps they will want it next year
17:06 |Lupin| like they need some time o get used to and realize what automaion can do for them ?
17:07 |Lupin| cait: in your opion, does it also depend on how old the librarians are ? e.g. the younger may be more used to computers, something like that ?
17:10 cait perhaps
17:11 cait but this is not librarian specific I think
17:11 |Lupin| right
17:11 cait I think younger people experiment more with programs
17:12 |Lupin| yep, maybe
17:12 |Lupin| our librarian is almost 60
17:12 |Lupin| and she is really reluctant to automate things
17:12 |Lupin| like search and replace, she sometimes prefers to do them manually
17:13 cait :)
17:13 cait but I think there are always exceptions
17:15 |Lupin| phone call
17:26 |Lupin| hello pianohacker
17:26 pianohacker Hello there, newly minted developer
17:29 |Lupin| :)
17:32 cait bye #koha, have a nice rest sunday!
17:33 |Lupin| bye #koyha, too ! see you in three weeks if can't make t for the general IRC meeting !
20:35 richard hi
20:44 chris hi richard
20:45 richard hey chris
20:45 gmcharlt hi chris, richard
20:56 chris heya galen
20:57 richard hi galen
20:57 chris good weekend?
20:58 richard spent a happy afternoon starting on a translation of joomla into maori
20:58 chris awesome
20:58 richard trying to get maori language commission and waikato uni interested
20:58 chris the koha opac is now totally translated for koha
20:58 chris if you get stuck, probably can get my dad interested, he did the opac
20:59 richard way cool., the stuff i did was from a spreadsheet on the waikato uni site - translations for ms office, ms windows, moodle and google
21:00 richard so i was mainly doing whole phrases and words
21:00 chris *nod*
21:37 chris hiya cait
21:37 cait hiya chris
21:51 chris hows the new car drive gmcharlt ?
21:51 gmcharlt chris: pretty nice
21:52 chris how long is the drive to atlanta?
21:52 gmcharlt about 5 hours
21:53 chris so you will drive up stay for the week, and drive back?
21:53 gmcharlt no, flying up for my first trip
21:53 gmcharlt will probably drive at least some of the subsequent trips
21:54 chris sounds like a plan
21:55 chris http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]
21:55 chris has Koha gotten a unicorn library before now?
21:56 gmcharlt chris: several
21:56 chris cool
21:56 chris i knew we got lots of ex Horizon
21:57 chris didnt know it was eating both sides of sirsi/dynix's sandwich at once
21:57 gmcharlt multiple sides, if you also count Dynix Classic and DRA classic
21:58 chris true
21:58 chris rangitikei and opus were dynix classic
22:06 cait there was a survey and many horizon/unicorn libraries considered evergreen or koha - free text entries where very interesting
22:06 cait where = were
22:06 cait should be in bed by now
22:07 chris :)
22:08 cait going to bed now - good night :)
00:26 brendan good evening #koha
03:20 brendan 9 minutes and counting
03:20 chris heh
03:24 Amit hi brendan, chris
03:24 Amit good morning #koha
03:24 brendan heya Amit
03:24 chris hi Amit
03:24 brendan I hope all is well with you
03:24 Amit yes
03:24 Amit how is your weekend chris
03:25 chris it was good, nice and relaxing
03:26 Amit chris, brendan happy frndship day
03:26 brendan same to you :)
03:38 mason bonjour peoples
03:38 mason hi amit, long time  - no chat :)
03:39 Amit hi mason good morning & and happy frndship day
04:13 chris @gcalc 3000 INR as NZD
04:13 munin chris: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
04:13 chris @gcalc 3000 INR in NZD
04:13 munin chris: 3000 Indian rupees = 94.1715576 New Zealand dollars
04:14 chris cool
04:23 Amit @wunder New Delhi India
04:23 munin Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 32.0°C (9:30 AM IST on August 03, 2009). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa (Falling).
06:45 chris good morning europe
07:20 paul_p hello world !
07:23 chris hello paul_p :)
07:23 chris vacation finished
07:24 paul_p hi chris.
07:25 paul_p the 1st week is finished. But next week, i'll leave again, for 2 weeks (and I leave my home, so => true vacation ;-) )
07:26 chris ahhh cool :)
07:30 kf good morning #koha
07:32 paul_p interesting link (in french, but the inside links are in english) :[…]les-performances/ it's about mySQL 5.4 performances
07:34 Sab hi
07:34 Sab i am facing a weired problem today
07:35 Sab i hv created two kohas in my one system
07:35 Sab i hv differentiate both of them by port numbers
07:35 Sab say... one is in & another one is in
07:35 Sab & i hv also created two databases 4 two of them
07:36 Sab for first one... "koha1" database & for second one... means.. 81... "koha2" database
07:36 Sab i hv also created two users for two database & as well as for trwo koha
07:36 Sab but.. the problem is
07:36 Sab i cannot log in as "koha2" now
07:36 Sab but.. only i can log in there ( in both of them ) as "koha1"
07:37 Sab can nyone help me? i really need it badly
07:45 SelfishMan Do you have different config files too?
07:45 SelfishMan You need to have more than different databases and different apache configs.  Your koha config files must be diferent as well.
07:47 Amit hi selfishman
07:48 SelfishMan hi Amit
08:24 Amit hi indradg_
10:02 indradg_ hi all
10:38 chris hi indradg_
10:42 indradg_ chris, hi
10:47 indradg_ chris, did you see the post on the koha m/l - offer of Koha installation @ US $ 75 + travelling expense from Vimal
10:51 chris yep, very good deal :)
10:53 indradg_ yep, commoditizing koha
10:53 indradg_ :)
11:25 sab hey there anyone can help me for one problem?
11:27 gmcharlt sab: what's up?
11:29 sab hey..wazzup?
11:29 sab i am facing a weired problem now
11:29 sab the thing is
11:29 sab i hv been trying 2 establish 2 koha here in my one system
11:29 sab one is koha1 & koha2
11:29 sab it worked fine whole day long
11:29 sab those all were done in virtual host
11:30 sab the thing is... suddenly
11:30 sab when i go 2 restart the apache server
11:30 sab it shows fails
11:30 sab the error is something like this
11:30 sab Restarting web server: apache2apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using for ServerName apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using for ServerName  failed!
11:33 gmcharlt do you have ServerName directives in your virtual host sections?
11:35 sab yep
11:35 sab itz there
11:36 sab tumi ekta chater bal
11:51 chris heh
11:55 Amit hi galen
11:56 gmcharlt hi Amit - I should have a reworking of your patch for you to look at later (my) tonight
11:56 Amit thanks galen\
11:56 Amit and happy frndship day
11:58 gmcharlt to you as well

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