Time  Nick        Message
12:33 |Lupin|     hello
13:07 gmcharlt    hi |Lupin|
13:08 cait        hi galen
13:08 gmcharlt    hi cait
13:09 gmcharlt    cait: I'm curious, I understand that German catalogers don't typically enter cataloging records in a form that looks much like a MARC21 or MAB record
13:09 gmcharlt    is that correct?
13:11 cait        let me think about it
13:12 cait        I m not sure if I can give you a qualified answer to that
13:12 cait        perhaps explain it for our union catalog
13:12 cait        wich is pica
13:12 cait        they enter records in pica format, they get records for their local systems in mab or in marc21, wich is new and I m still testing it
13:13 cait        most academic libraries catalog to union catalogs, but I think some of them are mab inside
13:13 cait        for public libraries it might depend on their ils, I know most of them can import mab and they can buy mab records from their vendors
13:14 cait        hm there is also RAK
13:14 cait        alphabetic rules for cataloging
13:15 cait        I learned to catalog with RAK when in library school
13:17 cait        Im not a cataloger :(
13:18 gmcharlt    looks RAK (as cataloging code) fills same niche as AACR2
13:19 cait        yes, I think thats true
13:19 cait        its goes back to card catalogs
13:20 gmcharlt    could you point me to an example of what a Pica format record looks like?
13:20 cait        I think you wont need that outside of cataloging in union catalog - its not for data exchange
13:21 gmcharlt    right, but I'm curious how it compares as a data entry format
13:21 cait        its similar to marc21, four numbes, no indicators but subfields
13:22 cait        but im not an expert
13:22 gmcharlt    ah, OK - still has catalogers thinking in terms of tag numbers and subfields
13:22 cait        yes
13:22 cait        sorry, I cant log into union catalog cataloging interface from here
13:23 cait        to copy you a record
13:23 gmcharlt    no worries
13:24 cait        why are you interested in cataloging formats?
13:24 gmcharlt    general professional interest of mine, actually
13:25 gmcharlt    after having spent years work to migrate good (and crappy!) records
13:25 gmcharlt    interested in ways of doing it better
13:25 cait        I think there are some special things about German cataloging
13:25 gmcharlt    also having observed how USMARC/MARC21 tends to *not* take up good ideas from the other MARC formats it absorbs
13:26 cait        we got some changes into MARC21 by MARBI
13:26 gmcharlt    what ends up happening as German cataloging starts using MARC21 is of particular interest
13:26 gmcharlt    yeah, UKMARC did less well in that respect
13:26 cait        I think linking authority records by identity numbers is one of them
13:26 gmcharlt    it is indeed, although I wish they had done a better job with the subfield $0 proposal
13:27 cait        fighting with it atm
13:27 gmcharlt    as it doesn't handle case where multiple authorities (main heading + subdivision) are linked to one bib heading
13:27 cait        we copy them to $9 for import to koha
13:27 cait        I link the linking feature a lot
13:27 cait        what gives me headaches is linking between titles $w
13:27 cait        dont even started with that yet :(
13:27 gmcharlt    yeah
13:27 cait        and we will need to change xslt display
13:27 gmcharlt    hopefully the Linked Data folks will help save us there
13:28 cait        also for displaying 880 fields
13:28 cait        linked data folks?
13:28 |Lupin|     nope, sorry :)
13:28 gmcharlt    semantic web, RDF, and assigning URIs to everything
13:29 cait        I dont see that we can adapt that easily
13:31 cait        (15:27:13) gmcharlt: as it doesn't handle case where multiple authorities (main heading + subdivision) are linked to one bib heading - do you have an example for that?
13:31 gmcharlt    cait: it goes something like this
13:31 cait        $0 is repeatable for different sources of authorities
13:31 gmcharlt    if a bib heading is like this
13:32 gmcharlt    $a Castles $x $tone $z Germany
13:33 gmcharlt    suppose $a an authorized main heading
13:33 gmcharlt    and Stone and Gemany
13:33 gmcharlt    are each authorized free floating subdivions (e.g., in MARC21 would be represented as aut record with 18x)
13:33 gmcharlt    although $0 can be repeated
13:34 gmcharlt    it's not clear to me how you make sure unambiguously which part of the bib heading
13:34 gmcharlt    is authorized by which authority record
13:34 cait        huh
13:35 cait        I dont think I really understand that - not a cataloger ;) but I have some authority records here, let me look at them for a minute
13:36 |Lupin|     bye everybody
13:38 cait        $a Castles $x $tone $z Germany is from title record?
13:40 gmcharlt    yes, in context of my example
13:43 cait        ok, I will have to ask our format expert about that
15:46 |Lupin|     hi again, folks
15:52 |Lupin|     has someone an idea how to link books to users ?
15:53 |Lupin|     to represent who has created a record, say, is it possible to store something in a MARC field that would cause Koha to dispaly a link to the user ?
15:55 |Lupin|     cait: any idea ? :)
16:06 |Lupin|     bbl
16:07 cait        hi
16:07 |Lupin|     oh, was about to leave :)
16:07 cait        was afk, watching tv
16:07 |Lupin|     cait: np !!
16:07 cait        thinking about your question
16:08 |Lupin|     cait: k, nice from you to think about these things on a sunday
16:08 cait        not sure if I have an answer
16:09 cait        dont know if MARC21 has fields for cataloger, but perhaps it has
16:09 |Lupin|     cait: on possibilit is to alter the template slightly so that for one field it knows it has to look for that in the borrowers table, print borrower's name and make it a link to the details page for that borrower
16:10 |Lupin|     cait: here we use Unimarc but the problem is roughly the same, probably.
16:10 cait        the link is only for staff side?
16:10 |Lupin|     cait: thatwould be the minimumu, I'd say
16:11 cait        you could have an authority for the creator
16:11 |Lupin|     cait: in the current system the links appears at OPAC, too, if this deserves the name of OPAC
16:11 cait        but this would lead to an uathority record, not to the borrower record
16:11 |Lupin|     ahah !
16:11 |Lupin|     cait: this sounds much clenaer than the modification of the template !!
16:12 cait        yes
16:12 |Lupin|     cait: perhaps creating an authorised value for that and keeping it synchronised with borowers table would work ?
16:12 cait        ok, link would lead to other record created by that author
16:13 |Lupin|     which may also be an interesting functionalty
16:14 cait        authorities dont looks really user friendly atm
16:14 cait        very marc21-ish
16:14 |Lupin|     perhaps koha should be modified so that, in the KOha => Marc mappings, possibility is offered to pickup a field from the users table and not onl from the biblio, biblioitem and item tables
16:14 |Lupin|     cait: k
16:16 |Lupin|     hmm last idea does not work cause koha won't know which row to pick up in borrowers table
16:16 |Lupin|     it works for the other tables because the biblionumber can be used to figure out which row to use
16:16 cait        ah
16:17 cait        sorry - no idea
16:18 cait        didnt you plan to ask questions about data import? :)
16:18 |Lupin|     cait: that was the one :)
16:18 |Lupin|     cait: because in the system used currently these links are present
16:18 |Lupin|     but actually I may fave found a solution
16:19 |Lupin|     just checking in the db whether it could work or not...
16:21 |Lupin|     yep !
16:22 |Lupin|     cait: see the marc_subfield_structure table
16:22 |Lupin|     each subfield can be a URL
16:22 |Lupin|     and each subfield can have a plugin associated to it, it's the value_builder field in the db
16:23 |Lupin|     so the only thig to do is to assign to a field a plugin that will fill it with the URL of the page or the user that is just creating the record
16:23 |Lupin|     and say the field is a URL in the DB, and that shoudl work
16:24 |Lupin|     shouldn't it ?
16:24 cait        yes it should
16:24 cait        the plugin is a great idea
16:24 cait        and when its in a marc21 field you can display it in opac
16:25 cait        and one xslt for staff is available you can also display it there
16:25 |Lupin|     yeah the designers had a great idea when they designed it, I agree
16:25 |Lupin|     cait: wouldn-t that work without xslt ?
16:26 |Lupin|     cait: (I thought the url ould be displayed both in OPAC and staff...?)
16:27 cait        in MARC display
16:27 cait        probably not in normal view
16:27 cait        you cant configure outside of xslt what gets displayed in normal view
16:29 |Lupin|     ah
16:30 |Lupin|     well...
16:30 |Lupin|     perhaps not a problem
16:30 |Lupin|     and as you said
16:30 |Lupin|     it it's a problem then there is XSLT, thanks for having mentionned it, I was not aware of this possibility at the staff elvel
16:31 cait        its not there yet :(
16:31 cait        but its marked as sponsored in bugzilla
16:31 cait        perhaps just try it - but dont know whats in the template there yet
16:34 |Lupin|     cait: oh, not very important... those who really want to see i can look at te marc view
16:36 cait        ok
16:38 |Lupin|     cait: thanks a lot for having helped to find this solution !
16:38 |Lupin|     cait: this quesiton was in me for some days already
16:39 cait        sometimes it helps just to speak someone
16:44 |Lupin|     cait: yeah ! if the person you are speaking to is great it helps even more :-)
16:44 cait        plugin was your idea!
16:49 |Lupin|     cait: never played with them, though
16:50 cait        I thought about adaption barcode plugin for generating inventory numbers
16:51 cait        but our library dont want it g
16:51 |Lupin|     why ?
16:55 cait        ok, perhaps dont need it and they use different inv# prefixes
16:56 cait        we talked about it and they said they wont need an automatic solution
16:58 |Lupin|     cait: is it true that librarians are sometimes reluctant regarding automation of tasks ?
17:01 cait        some of them may be
17:01 cait        but I dont think its general
17:02 cait        for this library its their first ILS, perhaps they will want it next year
17:06 |Lupin|     like they need some time o get used to and realize what automaion can do for them ?
17:07 |Lupin|     cait: in your opion, does it also depend on how old the librarians are ? e.g. the younger may be more used to computers, something like that ?
17:10 cait        perhaps
17:11 cait        but this is not librarian specific I think
17:11 |Lupin|     right
17:11 cait        I think younger people experiment more with programs
17:12 |Lupin|     yep, maybe
17:12 |Lupin|     our librarian is almost 60
17:12 |Lupin|     and she is really reluctant to automate things
17:12 |Lupin|     like search and replace, she sometimes prefers to do them manually
17:13 cait         :)
17:13 cait        but I think there are always exceptions
17:15 |Lupin|     phone call
17:26 |Lupin|     hello pianohacker
17:26 pianohacker Hello there, newly minted developer
17:29 |Lupin|     :)
17:32 cait        bye #koha, have a nice rest sunday!
17:33 |Lupin|     bye #koyha, too ! see you in three weeks if can't make t for the general IRC meeting !
20:35 richard     hi
20:44 chris       hi richard
20:45 richard     hey chris
20:45 gmcharlt    hi chris, richard
20:56 chris       heya galen
20:57 richard     hi galen
20:57 chris       good weekend?
20:58 richard     spent a happy afternoon starting on a translation of joomla into maori
20:58 chris       awesome
20:58 richard     trying to get maori language commission and waikato uni interested
20:58 chris       the koha opac is now totally translated for koha
20:58 chris       if you get stuck, probably can get my dad interested, he did the opac
20:59 richard     way cool., the stuff i did was from a spreadsheet on the waikato uni site - translations for ms office, ms windows, moodle and google
21:00 richard     so i was mainly doing whole phrases and words
21:00 chris       *nod*
21:37 chris       hiya cait
21:37 cait        hiya chris
21:51 chris       hows the new car drive gmcharlt ?
21:51 gmcharlt    chris: pretty nice
21:52 chris       how long is the drive to atlanta?
21:52 gmcharlt    about 5 hours
21:53 chris       so you will drive up stay for the week, and drive back?
21:53 gmcharlt    no, flying up for my first trip
21:53 gmcharlt    will probably drive at least some of the subsequent trips
21:54 chris       sounds like a plan
21:55 chris       http://www.librarytechnology.org/ltg-displayarticle.pl?RC=14133
21:55 chris       has Koha gotten a unicorn library before now?
21:56 gmcharlt    chris: several
21:56 chris       cool
21:56 chris       i knew we got lots of ex Horizon
21:57 chris       didnt know it was eating both sides of sirsi/dynix's sandwich at once
21:57 gmcharlt    multiple sides, if you also count Dynix Classic and DRA classic
21:58 chris       true
21:58 chris       rangitikei and opus were dynix classic
22:06 cait        there was a survey and many horizon/unicorn libraries considered evergreen or koha - free text entries where very interesting
22:06 cait        where = were
22:06 cait        should be in bed by now
22:07 chris       :)
22:08 cait        going to bed now - good night :)
00:26 brendan     good evening #koha
03:20 brendan     9 minutes and counting
03:20 chris       heh
03:24 Amit        hi brendan, chris
03:24 Amit        good morning #koha
03:24 brendan     heya Amit
03:24 chris       hi Amit
03:24 brendan     I hope all is well with you
03:24 Amit        yes
03:24 Amit        how is your weekend chris
03:25 chris       it was good, nice and relaxing
03:26 Amit        chris, brendan happy frndship day
03:26 brendan     same to you :)
03:38 mason       bonjour peoples
03:38 mason       hi amit, long time  - no chat :)
03:39 Amit        hi mason good morning & and happy frndship day
04:13 chris       @gcalc 3000 INR as NZD
04:13 munin       chris: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
04:13 chris       @gcalc 3000 INR in NZD
04:13 munin       chris: 3000 Indian rupees = 94.1715576 New Zealand dollars
04:14 chris       cool
04:23 Amit        @wunder New Delhi India
04:23 munin       Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 32.0°C (9:30 AM IST on August 03, 2009). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa (Falling).
06:45 chris       good morning europe
07:20 paul_p      hello world !
07:23 chris       hello paul_p :)
07:23 chris       vacation finished
07:24 paul_p      hi chris.
07:25 paul_p      the 1st week is finished. But next week, i'll leave again, for 2 weeks (and I leave my home, so => true vacation ;-) )
07:26 chris       ahhh cool :)
07:30 kf          good morning #koha
07:32 paul_p      interesting link (in french, but the inside links are in english) : http://www.08000linux.com/blogs/blog/2009/07/29/mysql-retour-sur-les-performances/ it's about mySQL 5.4 performances
07:34 Sab         hi
07:34 Sab         i am facing a weired problem today
07:35 Sab         i hv created two kohas in my one system
07:35 Sab         i hv differentiate both of them by port numbers
07:35 Sab         say... one is in 192.168.1.2:80 & another one is in 192.168.1.2:81
07:35 Sab         & i hv also created two databases 4 two of them
07:36 Sab         for first one... "koha1" database & for second one... means.. 81... "koha2" database
07:36 Sab         i hv also created two users for two database & as well as for trwo koha
07:36 Sab         but.. the problem is
07:36 Sab         i cannot log in as "koha2" now
07:36 Sab         but.. only i can log in there ( in both of them ) as "koha1"
07:37 Sab         can nyone help me? i really need it badly
07:45 SelfishMan  Do you have different config files too?
07:45 SelfishMan  You need to have more than different databases and different apache configs.  Your koha config files must be diferent as well.
07:47 Amit        hi selfishman
07:48 SelfishMan  hi Amit
08:24 Amit        hi indradg_
10:02 indradg_    hi all
10:38 chris       hi indradg_
10:42 indradg_    chris, hi
10:47 indradg_    chris, did you see the post on the koha m/l - offer of Koha installation @ US $ 75 + travelling expense from Vimal
10:51 chris       yep, very good deal :)
10:53 indradg_    yep, commoditizing koha
10:53 indradg_    :)
11:25 sab         hey there anyone can help me for one problem?
11:27 gmcharlt    sab: what's up?
11:29 sab         hey..wazzup?
11:29 sab         i am facing a weired problem now
11:29 sab         the thing is
11:29 sab         i hv been trying 2 establish 2 koha here in my one system
11:29 sab         one is koha1 & koha2
11:29 sab         it worked fine whole day long
11:29 sab         those all were done in virtual host
11:30 sab         the thing is... suddenly
11:30 sab         when i go 2 restart the apache server
11:30 sab         it shows fails
11:30 sab         the error is something like this
11:30 sab         Restarting web server: apache2apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.1.1 for ServerName  failed!
11:33 gmcharlt    do you have ServerName directives in your virtual host sections?
11:35 sab         yep
11:35 sab         itz there
11:36 sab         tumi ekta chater bal
11:51 chris       heh
11:55 Amit        hi galen
11:56 gmcharlt    hi Amit - I should have a reworking of your patch for you to look at later (my) tonight
11:56 Amit        thanks galen\
11:56 Amit        and happy frndship day
11:58 gmcharlt    to you as well