IRC log for #koha, 2005-08-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:10 tim thd: If I remember right, I used my barcode numbers.
12:10 tim That's what I'm used to with our current system.
12:30 thd tim: you have to use the numbers that Koha actually uses in that dialog unless you change the template and possibly more.  Those numbers should be whatever is in biblio.biblionumber.  Just so you know if you delete a record and start again Koha keeps incrementing numbers and assigning new numbers as if nothing had changed.
12:31 tim Yeah.  I noticed that.
12:32 tim And I figured it probably wanted the biblionumber, but was thinking it would give an error instead of export everything if I used the wrong numbers.
12:32 tim The biblionumbers don't go high enough to match the barcodes yet.
12:40 thd tim: If you like using barcodes for that purpose investigate changing the template and repot it to the koha-devel list.  I would search the lists first and ask here to see if others have done something similar.  Actually, a better solution would be to obtain biblionumbers using a search that could include barcode and then export those.  Extra programming required but that may not be especially difficult if the export script can take a disjoin
12:40 thd t set of numbers instead of merely a range.  That may be a more useful feature.
12:44 tim I'll check into that.  I'll also check into changing the way I do things.  It could be easier
14:04 thd tim: Of course, if you come up with any generally useful changes to Koha, commit them back to the source head.
14:06 tim thd: I'll need help committing it, but it's not likely I'll figure something useful out myself anyway.
14:12 kados more power problems in Athens
14:13 thd-away :(
14:13 thd-away :)
01:33 osmoze good morning kohaaaa
01:33 osmoze :)
02:06 rach hi ya paul as osmo|kfe
02:13 paul hi rach
02:13 paul do you have a few minuts ?
02:14 rach yup
02:14 paul i wanted to speak of Acquisition
02:14 rach oh you wanted to know about how to bypass doing order/reciept wern't you
02:14 paul beeping hdl_away too.
02:14 paul yep.
02:14 paul & i also wanted to know what worked in 1.2 and does not work in 2.2.x
02:14 rach ah right
02:14 rach ok well I'll have to go back to see my notes but I do have some
02:15 paul because I chianged almost nothing (just some bugfixing) & adding some features like creating an order from a suggestion.
02:15 rach basically was just template bugs
02:15 rach so easy to miss
02:16 rach ok you can do an order/recieve in one action thereby bypassing actually having to recieve things
02:16 rach horowhenua use this for just what you describe - when you go to the local bookshop and just get the book and put it in
02:16 rach and for when they get donations of books
02:17 paul how to do order/recieve in 1 action ?
02:17 rach you still have to have a supplier - but if you were customising for a library you might have a hidden supplier if that wasn't important
02:17 rach you pick a supplier
02:18 rach and then just fill in all the fields - including barcode and the purchase price
02:18 paul hdl, this is interesting, read & don't hesistate to write ;-)
02:18 rach ah that I think is one of the things that was wrong with the templates
02:18 rach that not all the fields were on the order page, so you couldn't do this maybe
02:18 ros if you have different discounts from different suppliers, it's worth putting them in as individuals
02:19 paul hi rosalie. Nice to read you
02:19 ros hi Paul
02:19 paul still at the library ?
02:20 paul isn't it 10PM in NZ ?
02:20 rach So on our templates - the extra fields that you only have to fill in if you were doing the complete action, are a different colour (they had a yellow box around them) to indicate they are optional for that form
02:20 rach only 7.30pm
02:20 ros Nope, just 19.20 hours, which is time I moved on, it's true
02:20 paul right in summer we have only 10hours diff
02:21 rach sorry I don't think I have a screen shot which shows that clearly, but I could get you one if you like?
02:21 paul no, I think I understand.
02:22 rach so basically we had all the fields that you would need on the order part of the form - and the only real difference between the ordering and recieving form was that different bits became manditory
02:22 paul (just a note : it's strange to put yellow on non mandatory fields. Usually, mandatory fields are highlighted !)
02:22 rach yeah - it made sense at the time :-)  one of the problems with the reciept forms is that the fields weren't all editable still
02:22 ros this time I am off. Ciao
02:22 rach see ya rosa
02:23 rach and I think that the main field missing was proably the item barcode
02:23 hdl rach : but how do you know it is an order/receive all-in-one ?
02:24 rach[…]15/acquisitions_7
02:24 rach shows it a bit
02:24 rach umm sorry hdl, I'm not sure I understand the question
02:24 chris if the barcode is filled in, its all in one
02:24 rach if you put in a barcode for an item, then koha should (well it did :-) know that it was not on order
02:24 rach but was actually in the library
02:24 rach ah like chris said
02:24 paul hi chris
02:25 hdl hi chris.
02:25 chris koha makes the order and receives it all in one go, if the barcode is filled in
02:25 chris hi all
02:25 rach yep
02:25 hdl ok.
02:26 rach there might be tweaks you want to make, like we assumed if you had the book and were doing it this way there was no freight
02:26 hdl Th fact is that our template doesn't have Item barcode.
02:26 rach yes- that was one of the bugs we found
02:26 paul chris, did you fix those problems on katipo server ?
02:26 rach yes
02:26 rach and it's fixed in the templates we sent to owen
02:27 rach but we weren't confident they work with your latest release - so didn't commit
02:27 paul you always can commit on head.
02:28 paul I look at everything here. and if it seems to be OK, i port it to 2.2 branch.
02:28 hdl If item barcode is given, you then create an item ?
02:28 paul yes hdl.
02:28 rach yes
02:28 paul it should be the case when you recieve too.
02:28 paul if you put a barcode => create an item.
02:28 paul if you don't => no item creation.
02:28 chris thats the one
02:29 rach yes - so there is a bit more tricky stuff if you do recieve - we have some more checking about money for the library
02:29 rach and add freight
02:29 paul however, it uses non-MARC API, so it creates only a partial item, of course.
02:29 hdl one cannot receive a book he didnot ask for ?
02:29 rach yes
02:30 rach yes paul - that is main problem, we've never had to use it with MARC
02:30 paul it's not really a problem.
02:30 hdl But i was told that sometimes, ppl would be sent books that they never ordered, as a gift or advertisement.
02:31 rach yes - then they get put in this way, as order and reciept in one go
02:31 rach so that you don't have to fill in the form twice
02:31 paul if it's not buggy & you have mapped non-MARC fields to MARC tag/subfields, then it should create the MARC item as well.
02:31 chris under the supplier donation usually
02:31 chris in the donation budget :)
02:31 hdl OK.
02:32 paul it's just that it non-MARC item can be simpler as the MARC one. it's exactly the same for biblio.
02:32 paul when you create an order, it immediatly creates a biblio non-MARC and MARC.
02:32 chris yep
02:32 chris that would be ideal
02:33 paul at least the API works like this ;-)
02:33 Sylvain salut tlm
02:33 hdl hi Sylvain.
02:33 osmoze bonjour Sylvain
02:33 paul hello sylvain (speaking about acquisition with chris & rachel)
02:34 paul any other bug rach ?
02:34 Sylvain ok I'm going to look logs in order to understand ;)
02:34 rach I had a list from rosalie
02:36 rach ah some you might not thing are bugs :-)
02:36 rach - We'd still like a bibliographic search to be the compulsory first move
02:36 rach that's for adding a new thing
02:36 paul that's not the case ?
02:37 rach Receive a periodical
02:37 rach no there was an option on the acqui homepage to go straight to "add new biblio"
02:37 paul you just can clic on "add new biblio" if you are SURE that it does not exist.
02:37 rach which I think took you to simple acquisitions even if you weren't wanting to use them or something
02:37 paul that's a flamewar : is the librarian doing it's job well enough ?
02:38 rach ah well yes - so horowhenua prefers not - so not a bug, more a preference :-)
02:38 paul i never understood how "receive a periodical" wa supposed to work ;-)
02:38 rach Receive a periodical
02:38 rach Receive a periodical
02:38 rach Receive a periodical
02:38 rach oops
02:38 rach ah well it doesn't :-)
02:38 rach Title search shortcircuits to New Zealand Institute of Management, as do many other screens in Acquisitions
02:38 paul (quite easy to add a systempref "IntelligentLibrarian" to show or hide the button ;-) )
02:39 paul (as well as some other probably)
02:39 rach Receive an order
02:39 rach We'd like to continue being able to modify order details when receiving an order, by links from the receive an order screen, rather than having to go to modify an order to correct book fund, item type or round up the price, or to Edit Biblio to modify title or author.
02:39 rach so that is the one about the fields no longer being active on the recieve pages
02:39 rach and freight had got lost - No link to allow spreading the freight over the whole invoice
02:40 rach can you read an open office spreadsheet?
02:40 paul you've done  with bugs ?
02:40 rach I can send you her list
02:40 paul of course
02:40 Sylvain this receive/order discussion in the logs is quite interesting :)
02:40 paul (no windows here, so only OOo, no MS word)
02:40 paul send it to me, i'll answer on koha-devel.
02:41 paul as for some features/bugs, i have things to say ;-)
02:41 rach on it's way
02:42 rach there were some more about how things were being added up (once we got some other bits working the the reciepts weren't quite right)
02:42 rach but unless you use GST you might not care about them
02:42 paul 3 ways to remove "Windows Genuine Advantage" programm in 1 week... really lol
02:42 paul[…]ation/20050802005
02:42 paul (french)
02:43 paul security by obscurity is proven once again to be stupid ;-)
02:44 rach :-)
02:44 rach we were interviewing staff today, and asked if they spoke any french
02:44 rach are there more bugs/features you want to ask me about? or just in general?
02:45 paul no
02:45 paul I have what I need on acquisitions.
02:45 paul yes, another question :
02:45 paul do you have a working library with 2.2.x and MARC=OFF systempref ?
02:45 rach yes
02:45 rach well we think we do :-)
02:46 paul with official release or a patched version ?
02:46 rach their it department is being slow, so it is all installed at the library
02:46 rach but they haven't been given access to do final testing yet
02:46 rach hmm - I'm not sure we need to ask chris that
02:47 chris back
02:47 chris 2.2.2 with a couple of changes
02:48 chris some new reports they wanted
02:48 paul how many "couple" ?
02:48 chris any bugfixes ive made ive committed to HEAD
02:49 paul less than a dozen, not too important.
02:50 rach we were not intendingt o change it  = other than reports
02:50 paul chris/rach : did you try to export MARC records (even if MARC=OFF)
02:50 chris yep, seems to work fine
02:51 paul because it should work & i would be interested to know how it work with :
02:51 paul 1 biblio
02:51 paul >1 biblioitem
02:51 paul (and as many items you want)
02:51 paul because i'm not sure at all it works well...
02:51 paul (in fact I would be surprised if it worked well ;-) )
02:51 rach we can certainly give that a go
02:52 paul ok, let me know on koha-devel once you've tested.
02:52 chris will do
02:52 rach there is quite a big bug to do with groups that we fixed - is a big bug because you can't get to the group info
02:52 paul "rosalies bug list" recieved
02:54 chris yay, dinner is here
02:55 paul "bon appétit" chris
02:57 thd paul: So, the warning about MARC export of items is not antiquated?
03:01 rach sorry I'm going to have to go have dinner too, si is finally home
03:02 thd rach: sorry, for my initial untested suggestion about the home page on the koha-devel list.  My revised suggestion seems reasonable to me.
03:07 paul thd : i don't remember
03:09 thd paul: MARC export has this note "Note : the items are NOT exported by this tool"
03:09 paul yes, I see, but I don't know it t's true of false.
03:09 paul open a bug on bugzilla, i'll check later.
03:10 thd paul: My tests show items being exported but I do not know if there is a subtle problem.
03:12 paul there's probably a subtle problem, which nickname is "bug" ;-)
03:13 thd paul: Well I should not open a bug report about the notice.  I do not know how I should open a bug about a subtle problem that I cannot identify :)
03:28 thd paul: What would I harm by mapping 952 $t for example to items.itemnumber?  "Do not expect to have every Koha table.column mapped to a MARC subfield. Some (such as biblionumber, biblioitemnumber, and itemnumber) are values generated by Koha and will probably be automatically mapped. Others are flags which are set in the course of normal circulation activities and will contain information that is not part of your MARC record."
03:32 paul if 952 is your item tag, then you should harm nothing.
03:33 paul mmm... not sure for itemnumber.
03:39 thd paul: I was hoping to find a way for Koha to place the Koha itemnumber in a MARC holdings field.  952 for example.
03:41 hdl It already does, in $9 I think.
03:41 thd paul: I would have expected that Koha would only need unique itemnumbers for each biblio but not unique across the entire DB.
03:44 thd paul: The I could have  biblio 15 with copies 1 and 2; and biblio 16 with copies 1, 2, and 3.  Does Koha need itemnumbers to be unique for the DB as a whole?
03:47 paul yes
03:48 chris back
03:48 chris yep itemnumber is a purely internal koha thing
03:48 chris its the primary key of items
03:48 chris must be non null and unique
03:49 thd paul, chris: How can I get the effect of  biblio 15 with copies 1 and 2; and biblio 16 with copies 1, 2, and 3.  This would be a conventional copy numbering nomenclature.
03:49 chris not with using itemnumber
03:50 thd chris: Of course, but how else might this be accomplished?
03:50 chris non of the libraries i deal with have numbered their copies in that way
03:50 chris so i havent bumped up against it
03:50 chris you could use items.notes
03:52 thd chris: All of the libraries I have ever seen number copies that way on the item itself and represent such numbers in the catalogue.  I have no idea how those systems tracked the numbers in a database but this convention predates automated library systems :)
03:52 chris right, none of the ones i deal with do :)
03:53 chris whats the use of it?
03:55 chris the ones i deal with use barcode numbers to differentiate between copies
03:55 paul an idea would be to have a barcode :
03:56 paul biblionumber-item#
03:56 paul that would make the job (i have 1 library working like this)
03:56 chris so 15-1, 15-2 etc paul ?
03:56 paul yep
03:56 chris yep, that could work too
03:57 thd chris: well, you have numbers for copies that are only one digit and fit on the item using the smallest possible space and then also seem nicer to humans.  It is easy to know the total number of copies based on the highest copy number assigned.  Items with only one copy have no such copy number.
03:58 thd paul: yes, I did that for a books business to try to impose rationality on their legacy database that had been used like a free form sketchpad :)
04:12 thd paul: Which other Koha table columns should not be mapped to a MARC subfield, in addition to biblionumber, biblioitemnumber, and itemnumber when migrating initially or cataloguing externally on a progressive basis and importing
04:12 paul none
04:13 thd :)
04:13 paul & in CVS, biblionumber can be mapped to anything, including 001
04:13 paul (will be in 2.2.4)
04:14 paul & biblionumber can be in a tab, so shown to the user in MARC view
04:15 thd paul: Is that because you are planning to no longer use biblionumber as a unique key for MARC Koha?
04:17 paul no
04:17 thd paul: If I copy catalogue two different records from two different systems and do not change the 001 field there is always a chance that the 001 field will be the same number as one I have already.
04:17 paul right, that's why biblionumber still can be put somewhere else ;-)
04:18 paul in the future we could probably be able to extend biblionumber format
04:22 thd paul: Of course, 001 is supposed to be stored in 035 for MARC 21 and 001 changed to a unique number on the local system after copy cataloguing.
04:25 thd paul: 035 is the same for UNIMARC.
04:36 hdl Sylvain dans le coin ?
04:39 Sylvain oui Sylvain ? Que puis-je pour toi ?
04:39 Sylvain euh hdl ;)
04:40 hdl oui.
04:40 hdl Je voulais savoir si tu avais modiif qqchose dans les autorités que tu n'arais pas commité.
04:40 hdl En fait, c'est suite à un bug que Pascale a rapporté et que je n'ai pas dans ma version.
04:42 Sylvain tu peux me donner le num du bug?
04:42 Sylvain parceque si je leur ai changé des choses non commitées ça devait vraiment être minime
04:47 Sylvain hdl  ?
04:47 hdl oui: 961
04:48 Sylvain ok j'regarde
04:48 hdl C'est un bug sur les autorités, un javascript ajouté sur les suppressions.
04:48 Sylvain je t'avoue que le mois de vacances m'a un peu fait oublié ce que j'avais fait pour eux, j'vais regarder ;)
04:48 hdl Chez moi, je n'avais pas ce script et je n'avais pas d'erreur de suppression.
04:48 hdl Pas grave.
04:49 hdl J'ai ajouté le script.
04:49 hdl Mais j'aimerais savoir si tu peux confirmer ou infirmer.
04:49 Sylvain j'essaye de regarder un peu plus en détail
04:49 Sylvain j'vais te dire ça
04:49 hdl Et si tu peux mettre à jour ta versions et tester avec mes modifs.
04:52 Sylvain je viens de tester sur la version qu'ils ont en ce moment
04:52 Sylvain et pas de pb
04:55 Sylvain ça devait être à une époque ou ils avaient une version CVS pas stable
04:55 hdl Etonnant.
09:37 paul owen 1st today !!!
09:37 owen :)
09:37 paul (no news from kados. Maybe he wanted to prove he was not always early ;-)
09:48 kados heh
09:48 kados I was here ... just didn't have anything to say ;-)
09:48 paul you liar !
09:48 paul prove it.
09:48 paul lol
09:49 kados hehe
10:30 Sylvain it's time for my daily question :) When you issue an item, the item' branch isn't checked (either homebranch or holdingbranch), is it normal (or am I wrong) ?
10:31 paul it seems it's not a bug but a feature !
10:31 paul the item issued is automatically "moved" to the branch doing the issue !
10:31 paul because a book can be in a branch by mistake (wrong return for example)
10:35 owen paul, I'm looking at the recent change top detail.tmpl.  I see that you've added MARC subjects, but they're not showiing up for me
10:37 paul works for me :
10:37 paul[…]
10:37 paul look at my templates, maybe you have a diff with <tmpl loop>
10:38 owen Even when I switch to the default template I'm still getting the old subjects list
10:40 paul mmm... strange...
10:41 paul you should add a warn "IN HERE"; line 66 of opac-detail
10:42 paul just after the if (C4::boolean...)
10:42 paul and check if the line is reached.
10:43 paul I check my local cvs, and everything is commited, for sure.
10:46 owen Could there be some confusion about whether the system preference should be MARC="yes" or MARC = 1?
10:46 paul (as it's my setup)
10:47 owen We have it set to 1, but checks for C4::Context->preference("marc") eq "yes"
10:48 paul ???
10:48 paul my copy is :
10:48 paul if (C4::Boolean::true_p($marc)) {
10:48 paul are you sure you are checking rel_2_2 ?
10:48 paul (line 66)
10:48 paul (65)
10:49 owen I have instead at line 53: if (C4::Context->preference("marc") eq "yes") {
10:50 paul your cvs is not uptodate or is not rel_2_2
10:50 paul (line 53 is an empty line for me)
10:50 owen Strange. My CVS client /said/ it was up-to-date, and rel_2_2.
10:51 paul my copy is
10:53 owen Mine says
10:54 paul ????
10:54 paul you are speaking of opac/ ?
10:54 owen Well, there's a problem.  I'm talking about **
10:54 paul ;-)
10:54 owen In the intranet
10:55 paul stupid paul : i didn't have copied opac-detail to !
11:15 owen Something seems to be up with Sourceforge.  All my CVS operations are timing out
11:16 paul happends too often imho...
11:16 paul shouldn't we move to another CVS (like savannah)
11:16 paul i work on a project using savannah, it is VERY fast compared to sf.
11:17 paul (dolibarr, if someone want to know. I use this software, and hack it a little. really a little)
11:17 paul (to koha-devel)
11:20 paul done
11:21 owen kados: are you familiar with Savannah?
11:21 paul owen : savannah is a clone of sourceforge ;-)
11:21 paul (it's a fork in fact)
11:22 owen This, I assume?
11:22 paul nope :
11:22 paul
11:22 paul ( is only for GNU projects)
11:22 owen Tricky
11:22 paul (and we are not a gnu project afaik)
11:23 paul
11:23 paul (koha is already registred on savannah in fact ;-)
11:23 paul except it's empty
11:23 paul we have a pb here : it has been created by steve tonnesen & he has disappeared...
11:24 paul Import your CVS tree
11:24 paul If your project already has an existing CVS repository that you want to move to Savannah, make an appointment with us for the migration.
11:24 paul
11:24 paul so, we can move from sf to savannah
11:54 kados yikes ... how will we recover the Koha on savanna?

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