Time Nick Message 12:10 tim thd: If I remember right, I used my barcode numbers. 12:10 tim That's what I'm used to with our current system. 12:30 thd tim: you have to use the numbers that Koha actually uses in that dialog unless you change the template and possibly more. Those numbers should be whatever is in biblio.biblionumber. Just so you know if you delete a record and start again Koha keeps incrementing numbers and assigning new numbers as if nothing had changed. 12:31 tim Yeah. I noticed that. 12:32 tim And I figured it probably wanted the biblionumber, but was thinking it would give an error instead of export everything if I used the wrong numbers. 12:32 tim The biblionumbers don't go high enough to match the barcodes yet. 12:40 thd tim: If you like using barcodes for that purpose investigate changing the template and repot it to the koha-devel list. I would search the lists first and ask here to see if others have done something similar. Actually, a better solution would be to obtain biblionumbers using a search that could include barcode and then export those. Extra programming required but that may not be especially difficult if the export script can take a disjoin 12:40 thd t set of numbers instead of merely a range. That may be a more useful feature. 12:44 tim I'll check into that. I'll also check into changing the way I do things. It could be easier 14:04 thd tim: Of course, if you come up with any generally useful changes to Koha, commit them back to the source head. 14:06 tim thd: I'll need help committing it, but it's not likely I'll figure something useful out myself anyway. 14:12 kados more power problems in Athens 14:13 thd-away :( 14:13 thd-away :) 01:33 osmoze good morning kohaaaa 01:33 osmoze :) 02:06 rach hi ya paul as osmo|kfe 02:13 paul hi rach 02:13 paul do you have a few minuts ? 02:14 rach yup 02:14 paul i wanted to speak of Acquisition 02:14 rach oh you wanted to know about how to bypass doing order/reciept wern't you 02:14 paul beeping hdl_away too. 02:14 paul yep. 02:14 paul & i also wanted to know what worked in 1.2 and does not work in 2.2.x 02:14 rach ah right 02:14 rach ok well I'll have to go back to see my notes but I do have some 02:15 paul because I chianged almost nothing (just some bugfixing) & adding some features like creating an order from a suggestion. 02:15 rach basically was just template bugs 02:15 rach so easy to miss 02:16 rach ok you can do an order/recieve in one action thereby bypassing actually having to recieve things 02:16 rach horowhenua use this for just what you describe - when you go to the local bookshop and just get the book and put it in 02:16 rach and for when they get donations of books 02:17 paul how to do order/recieve in 1 action ? 02:17 rach you still have to have a supplier - but if you were customising for a library you might have a hidden supplier if that wasn't important 02:17 rach you pick a supplier 02:18 rach and then just fill in all the fields - including barcode and the purchase price 02:18 paul hdl, this is interesting, read & don't hesistate to write ;-) 02:18 rach ah that I think is one of the things that was wrong with the templates 02:18 rach that not all the fields were on the order page, so you couldn't do this maybe 02:18 ros if you have different discounts from different suppliers, it's worth putting them in as individuals 02:19 paul hi rosalie. Nice to read you 02:19 ros hi Paul 02:19 paul still at the library ? 02:20 paul isn't it 10PM in NZ ? 02:20 rach So on our templates - the extra fields that you only have to fill in if you were doing the complete action, are a different colour (they had a yellow box around them) to indicate they are optional for that form 02:20 rach only 7.30pm 02:20 ros Nope, just 19.20 hours, which is time I moved on, it's true 02:20 paul right in summer we have only 10hours diff 02:21 rach sorry I don't think I have a screen shot which shows that clearly, but I could get you one if you like? 02:21 paul no, I think I understand. 02:22 rach so basically we had all the fields that you would need on the order part of the form - and the only real difference between the ordering and recieving form was that different bits became manditory 02:22 paul (just a note : it's strange to put yellow on non mandatory fields. Usually, mandatory fields are highlighted !) 02:22 rach yeah - it made sense at the time :-) one of the problems with the reciept forms is that the fields weren't all editable still 02:22 ros this time I am off. Ciao 02:22 rach see ya rosa 02:23 rach and I think that the main field missing was proably the item barcode 02:23 hdl rach : but how do you know it is an order/receive all-in-one ? 02:24 rach http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album15/acquisitions_7 02:24 rach shows it a bit 02:24 rach umm sorry hdl, I'm not sure I understand the question 02:24 chris if the barcode is filled in, its all in one 02:24 rach if you put in a barcode for an item, then koha should (well it did :-) know that it was not on order 02:24 rach but was actually in the library 02:24 rach ah like chris said 02:24 paul hi chris 02:25 hdl hi chris. 02:25 chris koha makes the order and receives it all in one go, if the barcode is filled in 02:25 chris hi all 02:25 rach yep 02:25 hdl ok. 02:26 rach there might be tweaks you want to make, like we assumed if you had the book and were doing it this way there was no freight 02:26 hdl Th fact is that our template doesn't have Item barcode. 02:26 rach yes- that was one of the bugs we found 02:26 paul chris, did you fix those problems on katipo server ? 02:26 rach yes 02:26 rach and it's fixed in the templates we sent to owen 02:27 rach but we weren't confident they work with your latest release - so didn't commit 02:27 paul you always can commit on head. 02:28 paul I look at everything here. and if it seems to be OK, i port it to 2.2 branch. 02:28 hdl If item barcode is given, you then create an item ? 02:28 paul yes hdl. 02:28 rach yes 02:28 paul it should be the case when you recieve too. 02:28 paul if you put a barcode => create an item. 02:28 paul if you don't => no item creation. 02:28 chris thats the one 02:29 rach yes - so there is a bit more tricky stuff if you do recieve - we have some more checking about money for the library 02:29 rach and add freight 02:29 paul however, it uses non-MARC API, so it creates only a partial item, of course. 02:29 hdl one cannot receive a book he didnot ask for ? 02:29 rach yes 02:30 rach yes paul - that is main problem, we've never had to use it with MARC 02:30 paul it's not really a problem. 02:30 hdl But i was told that sometimes, ppl would be sent books that they never ordered, as a gift or advertisement. 02:31 rach yes - then they get put in this way, as order and reciept in one go 02:31 rach so that you don't have to fill in the form twice 02:31 paul if it's not buggy & you have mapped non-MARC fields to MARC tag/subfields, then it should create the MARC item as well. 02:31 chris under the supplier donation usually 02:31 chris in the donation budget :) 02:31 hdl OK. 02:32 paul it's just that it non-MARC item can be simpler as the MARC one. it's exactly the same for biblio. 02:32 paul when you create an order, it immediatly creates a biblio non-MARC and MARC. 02:32 chris yep 02:32 chris that would be ideal 02:33 paul at least the API works like this ;-) 02:33 Sylvain salut tlm 02:33 hdl hi Sylvain. 02:33 osmoze bonjour Sylvain 02:33 paul hello sylvain (speaking about acquisition with chris & rachel) 02:34 paul any other bug rach ? 02:34 Sylvain ok I'm going to look logs in order to understand ;) 02:34 rach I had a list from rosalie 02:36 rach ah some you might not thing are bugs :-) 02:36 rach - We'd still like a bibliographic search to be the compulsory first move 02:36 rach that's for adding a new thing 02:36 paul that's not the case ? 02:37 rach Receive a periodical 02:37 rach no there was an option on the acqui homepage to go straight to "add new biblio" 02:37 paul you just can clic on "add new biblio" if you are SURE that it does not exist. 02:37 rach which I think took you to simple acquisitions even if you weren't wanting to use them or something 02:37 paul that's a flamewar : is the librarian doing it's job well enough ? 02:38 rach ah well yes - so horowhenua prefers not - so not a bug, more a preference :-) 02:38 paul i never understood how "receive a periodical" wa supposed to work ;-) 02:38 rach Receive a periodical 02:38 rach Receive a periodical 02:38 rach Receive a periodical 02:38 rach oops 02:38 rach ah well it doesn't :-) 02:38 rach Title search shortcircuits to New Zealand Institute of Management, as do many other screens in Acquisitions 02:38 paul (quite easy to add a systempref "IntelligentLibrarian" to show or hide the button ;-) ) 02:39 paul (as well as some other probably) 02:39 rach Receive an order 02:39 rach We'd like to continue being able to modify order details when receiving an order, by links from the receive an order screen, rather than having to go to modify an order to correct book fund, item type or round up the price, or to Edit Biblio to modify title or author. 02:39 rach so that is the one about the fields no longer being active on the recieve pages 02:39 rach and freight had got lost - No link to allow spreading the freight over the whole invoice 02:40 rach can you read an open office spreadsheet? 02:40 paul you've done with bugs ? 02:40 rach I can send you her list 02:40 paul of course 02:40 Sylvain this receive/order discussion in the logs is quite interesting :) 02:40 paul (no windows here, so only OOo, no MS word) 02:40 paul send it to me, i'll answer on koha-devel. 02:41 paul as for some features/bugs, i have things to say ;-) 02:41 rach on it's way 02:42 rach there were some more about how things were being added up (once we got some other bits working the the reciepts weren't quite right) 02:42 rach but unless you use GST you might not care about them 02:42 paul 3 ways to remove "Windows Genuine Advantage" programm in 1 week... really lol 02:42 paul http://www.vnunet.fr/actualite/logiciels/systemes_dexploitation/20050802005 02:42 paul (french) 02:43 paul security by obscurity is proven once again to be stupid ;-) 02:44 rach :-) 02:44 rach we were interviewing staff today, and asked if they spoke any french 02:44 rach are there more bugs/features you want to ask me about? or just in general? 02:45 paul no 02:45 paul I have what I need on acquisitions. 02:45 paul yes, another question : 02:45 paul do you have a working library with 2.2.x and MARC=OFF systempref ? 02:45 rach yes 02:45 rach well we think we do :-) 02:46 paul with official release or a patched version ? 02:46 rach their it department is being slow, so it is all installed at the library 02:46 rach but they haven't been given access to do final testing yet 02:46 rach hmm - I'm not sure we need to ask chris that 02:47 chris back 02:47 chris 2.2.2 with a couple of changes 02:48 chris some new reports they wanted 02:48 paul how many "couple" ? 02:48 chris any bugfixes ive made ive committed to HEAD 02:49 paul less than a dozen, not too important. 02:50 rach we were not intendingt o change it = other than reports 02:50 paul chris/rach : did you try to export MARC records (even if MARC=OFF) 02:50 chris yep, seems to work fine 02:51 paul because it should work & i would be interested to know how it work with : 02:51 paul 1 biblio 02:51 paul >1 biblioitem 02:51 paul (and as many items you want) 02:51 paul because i'm not sure at all it works well... 02:51 paul (in fact I would be surprised if it worked well ;-) ) 02:51 rach we can certainly give that a go 02:52 paul ok, let me know on koha-devel once you've tested. 02:52 chris will do 02:52 rach there is quite a big bug to do with groups that we fixed - is a big bug because you can't get to the group info 02:52 paul "rosalies bug list" recieved 02:54 chris yay, dinner is here 02:55 paul "bon appétit" chris 02:57 thd paul: So, the warning about MARC export of items is not antiquated? 03:01 rach sorry I'm going to have to go have dinner too, si is finally home 03:02 thd rach: sorry, for my initial untested suggestion about the koha.org home page on the koha-devel list. My revised suggestion seems reasonable to me. 03:07 paul thd : i don't remember 03:09 thd paul: MARC export has this note "Note : the items are NOT exported by this tool" 03:09 paul yes, I see, but I don't know it t's true of false. 03:09 paul open a bug on bugzilla, i'll check later. 03:10 thd paul: My tests show items being exported but I do not know if there is a subtle problem. 03:12 paul there's probably a subtle problem, which nickname is "bug" ;-) 03:13 thd paul: Well I should not open a bug report about the notice. I do not know how I should open a bug about a subtle problem that I cannot identify :) 03:28 thd paul: What would I harm by mapping 952 $t for example to items.itemnumber? "Do not expect to have every Koha table.column mapped to a MARC subfield. Some (such as biblionumber, biblioitemnumber, and itemnumber) are values generated by Koha and will probably be automatically mapped. Others are flags which are set in the course of normal circulation activities and will contain information that is not part of your MARC record." 03:32 paul if 952 is your item tag, then you should harm nothing. 03:33 paul mmm... not sure for itemnumber. 03:39 thd paul: I was hoping to find a way for Koha to place the Koha itemnumber in a MARC holdings field. 952 for example. 03:41 hdl It already does, in $9 I think. 03:41 thd paul: I would have expected that Koha would only need unique itemnumbers for each biblio but not unique across the entire DB. 03:44 thd paul: The I could have biblio 15 with copies 1 and 2; and biblio 16 with copies 1, 2, and 3. Does Koha need itemnumbers to be unique for the DB as a whole? 03:47 paul yes 03:48 chris back 03:48 chris yep itemnumber is a purely internal koha thing 03:48 chris its the primary key of items 03:48 chris must be non null and unique 03:49 thd paul, chris: How can I get the effect of biblio 15 with copies 1 and 2; and biblio 16 with copies 1, 2, and 3. This would be a conventional copy numbering nomenclature. 03:49 chris not with using itemnumber 03:50 thd chris: Of course, but how else might this be accomplished? 03:50 chris non of the libraries i deal with have numbered their copies in that way 03:50 chris so i havent bumped up against it 03:50 chris you could use items.notes 03:52 thd chris: All of the libraries I have ever seen number copies that way on the item itself and represent such numbers in the catalogue. I have no idea how those systems tracked the numbers in a database but this convention predates automated library systems :) 03:52 chris right, none of the ones i deal with do :) 03:53 chris whats the use of it? 03:55 chris the ones i deal with use barcode numbers to differentiate between copies 03:55 paul an idea would be to have a barcode : 03:56 paul biblionumber-item# 03:56 paul that would make the job (i have 1 library working like this) 03:56 chris so 15-1, 15-2 etc paul ? 03:56 paul yep 03:56 chris yep, that could work too 03:57 thd chris: well, you have numbers for copies that are only one digit and fit on the item using the smallest possible space and then also seem nicer to humans. It is easy to know the total number of copies based on the highest copy number assigned. Items with only one copy have no such copy number. 03:58 thd paul: yes, I did that for a books business to try to impose rationality on their legacy database that had been used like a free form sketchpad :) 04:12 thd paul: Which other Koha table columns should not be mapped to a MARC subfield, in addition to biblionumber, biblioitemnumber, and itemnumber when migrating initially or cataloguing externally on a progressive basis and importing bulkmarcimport.pl? 04:12 paul none 04:13 thd :) 04:13 paul & in CVS, biblionumber can be mapped to anything, including 001 04:13 paul (will be in 2.2.4) 04:14 paul & biblionumber can be in a tab, so shown to the user in MARC view 04:15 thd paul: Is that because you are planning to no longer use biblionumber as a unique key for MARC Koha? 04:17 paul no 04:17 thd paul: If I copy catalogue two different records from two different systems and do not change the 001 field there is always a chance that the 001 field will be the same number as one I have already. 04:17 paul right, that's why biblionumber still can be put somewhere else ;-) 04:18 paul in the future we could probably be able to extend biblionumber format 04:22 thd paul: Of course, 001 is supposed to be stored in 035 for MARC 21 and 001 changed to a unique number on the local system after copy cataloguing. 04:25 thd paul: 035 is the same for UNIMARC. 04:36 hdl Sylvain dans le coin ? 04:39 Sylvain oui Sylvain ? Que puis-je pour toi ? 04:39 Sylvain euh hdl ;) 04:40 hdl oui. 04:40 hdl Je voulais savoir si tu avais modiif qqchose dans les autorités que tu n'arais pas commité. 04:40 hdl En fait, c'est suite à un bug que Pascale a rapporté et que je n'ai pas dans ma version. 04:42 Sylvain tu peux me donner le num du bug? 04:42 Sylvain parceque si je leur ai changé des choses non commitées ça devait vraiment être minime 04:47 Sylvain hdl ? 04:47 hdl oui: 961 04:48 Sylvain ok j'regarde 04:48 hdl C'est un bug sur les autorités, un javascript ajouté sur les suppressions. 04:48 Sylvain je t'avoue que le mois de vacances m'a un peu fait oublié ce que j'avais fait pour eux, j'vais regarder ;) 04:48 hdl Chez moi, je n'avais pas ce script et je n'avais pas d'erreur de suppression. 04:48 hdl Pas grave. 04:49 hdl J'ai ajouté le script. 04:49 hdl Mais j'aimerais savoir si tu peux confirmer ou infirmer. 04:49 Sylvain j'essaye de regarder un peu plus en détail 04:49 Sylvain j'vais te dire ça 04:49 hdl Et si tu peux mettre à jour ta versions et tester avec mes modifs. 04:52 Sylvain je viens de tester sur la version qu'ils ont en ce moment 04:52 Sylvain et pas de pb 04:55 Sylvain ça devait être à une époque ou ils avaient une version CVS pas stable 04:55 hdl Etonnant. 09:37 paul owen 1st today !!! 09:37 owen :) 09:37 paul (no news from kados. Maybe he wanted to prove he was not always early ;-) 09:48 kados heh 09:48 kados I was here ... just didn't have anything to say ;-) 09:48 paul you liar ! 09:48 paul prove it. 09:48 paul lol 09:49 kados hehe 10:30 Sylvain it's time for my daily question :) When you issue an item, the item' branch isn't checked (either homebranch or holdingbranch), is it normal (or am I wrong) ? 10:31 paul it seems it's not a bug but a feature ! 10:31 paul the item issued is automatically "moved" to the branch doing the issue ! 10:31 paul because a book can be in a branch by mistake (wrong return for example) 10:35 owen paul, I'm looking at the recent change top detail.tmpl. I see that you've added MARC subjects, but they're not showiing up for me 10:37 paul works for me : 10:37 paul http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9018/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=56 10:37 paul look at my templates, maybe you have a diff with <tmpl loop> 10:38 owen Even when I switch to the default template I'm still getting the old subjects list 10:40 paul mmm... strange... 10:41 paul you should add a warn "IN HERE"; line 66 of opac-detail 10:42 paul just after the if (C4::boolean...) 10:42 paul and check if the line is reached. 10:43 paul I check my local cvs, and everything is commited, for sure. 10:46 owen Could there be some confusion about whether the system preference should be MARC="yes" or MARC = 1? 10:46 paul (as it's my setup) 10:47 owen We have it set to 1, but detail.pl checks for C4::Context->preference("marc") eq "yes" 10:48 paul ??? 10:48 paul my copy is : 10:48 paul if (C4::Boolean::true_p($marc)) { 10:48 paul are you sure you are checking rel_2_2 ? 10:48 paul (line 66) 10:48 paul (65) 10:49 owen I have instead at line 53: if (C4::Context->preference("marc") eq "yes") { 10:50 paul your cvs is not uptodate or is not rel_2_2 10:50 paul (line 53 is an empty line for me) 10:50 owen Strange. My CVS client /said/ it was up-to-date, and rel_2_2. 10:51 paul my copy is 1.14.2.6 10:53 owen Mine says 1.24.2.2 10:54 paul ???? 10:54 paul you are speaking of opac/opac-detail.pl ? 10:54 owen Well, there's a problem. I'm talking about *detail.pl* 10:54 paul ;-) 10:54 owen In the intranet 10:55 paul stupid paul : i didn't have copied opac-detail to detail.pl ! 11:15 owen Something seems to be up with Sourceforge. All my CVS operations are timing out 11:16 paul happends too often imho... 11:16 paul shouldn't we move to another CVS (like savannah) 11:16 paul i work on a project using savannah, it is VERY fast compared to sf. 11:17 paul (dolibarr, if someone want to know. I use this software, and hack it a little. really a little) 11:17 paul (to koha-devel) 11:20 paul done 11:21 owen kados: are you familiar with Savannah? 11:21 paul owen : savannah is a clone of sourceforge ;-) 11:21 paul (it's a fork in fact) 11:22 owen This, I assume? http://savannah.gnu.org/ 11:22 paul nope : 11:22 paul https://savannah.nongnu.org/ 11:22 paul (gnu.org is only for GNU projects) 11:22 owen Tricky 11:22 paul (and we are not a gnu project afaik) 11:23 paul https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha 11:23 paul (koha is already registred on savannah in fact ;-) 11:23 paul except it's empty 11:23 paul we have a pb here : it has been created by steve tonnesen & he has disappeared... 11:24 paul Import your CVS tree 11:24 paul If your project already has an existing CVS repository that you want to move to Savannah, make an appointment with us for the migration. 11:24 paul https://savannah.nongnu.org/cvs/?group=koha 11:24 paul so, we can move from sf to savannah 11:54 kados yikes ... how will we recover the Koha on savanna?