Time  Nick     Message
11:54 kados    yikes ... how will we recover the Koha on savanna?
11:24 paul     so, we can move from sf to savannah
11:24 paul     https://savannah.nongnu.org/cvs/?group=koha
11:24 paul     If your project already has an existing CVS repository that you want to move to Savannah, make an appointment with us for the migration.
11:24 paul     Import your CVS tree
11:23 paul     we have a pb here : it has been created by steve tonnesen & he has disappeared...
11:23 paul     except it's empty
11:23 paul     (koha is already registred on savannah in fact ;-)
11:23 paul     https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha
11:22 paul     (and we are not a gnu project afaik)
11:22 owen     Tricky
11:22 paul     (gnu.org is only for GNU projects)
11:22 paul     https://savannah.nongnu.org/
11:22 paul     nope :
11:22 owen     This, I assume? http://savannah.gnu.org/
11:21 paul     (it's a fork in fact)
11:21 paul     owen : savannah is a clone of sourceforge ;-)
11:21 owen     kados: are you familiar with Savannah?
11:20 paul     done
11:17 paul     (to koha-devel)
11:17 paul     (dolibarr, if someone want to know. I use this software, and hack it a little. really a little)
11:16 paul     i work on a project using savannah, it is VERY fast compared to sf.
11:16 paul     shouldn't we move to another CVS (like savannah)
11:16 paul     happends too often imho...
11:15 owen     Something seems to be up with Sourceforge.  All my CVS operations are timing out
10:55 paul     stupid paul : i didn't have copied opac-detail to detail.pl !
10:54 owen     In the intranet
10:54 paul     ;-)
10:54 owen     Well, there's a problem.  I'm talking about *detail.pl*
10:54 paul     you are speaking of opac/opac-detail.pl ?
10:54 paul     ????
10:53 owen     Mine says 1.24.2.2
10:51 paul     my copy is 1.14.2.6
10:50 owen     Strange. My CVS client /said/ it was up-to-date, and rel_2_2.
10:50 paul     (line 53 is an empty line for me)
10:50 paul     your cvs is not uptodate or is not rel_2_2
10:49 owen     I have instead at line 53: if (C4::Context->preference("marc") eq "yes") {
10:48 paul     (65)
10:48 paul     (line 66)
10:48 paul     are you sure you are checking rel_2_2 ?
10:48 paul     if (C4::Boolean::true_p($marc)) {
10:48 paul     my copy is :
10:48 paul     ???
10:47 owen     We have it set to 1, but detail.pl checks for C4::Context->preference("marc") eq "yes"
10:46 paul     (as it's my setup)
10:46 owen     Could there be some confusion about whether the system preference should be MARC="yes" or MARC = 1?
10:43 paul     I check my local cvs, and everything is commited, for sure.
10:42 paul     and check if the line is reached.
10:42 paul     just after the if (C4::boolean...)
10:41 paul     you should add a warn "IN HERE"; line 66 of opac-detail
10:40 paul     mmm... strange...
10:38 owen     Even when I switch to the default template I'm still getting the old subjects list
10:37 paul     look at my templates, maybe you have a diff with <tmpl loop>
10:37 paul     http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9018/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=56
10:37 paul     works for me :
10:35 owen     paul, I'm looking at the recent change top detail.tmpl.  I see that you've added MARC subjects, but they're not showiing up for me
10:31 paul     because a book can be in a branch by mistake (wrong return for example)
10:31 paul     the item issued is automatically "moved" to the branch doing the issue !
10:31 paul     it seems it's not a bug but a feature !
10:30 Sylvain  it's time for my daily question :) When you issue an item, the item' branch isn't checked (either homebranch or holdingbranch), is it normal (or am I wrong) ?
09:49 kados    hehe
09:48 paul     lol
09:48 paul     prove it.
09:48 paul     you liar !
09:48 kados    I was here ... just didn't have anything to say ;-)
09:48 kados    heh
09:37 paul     (no news from kados. Maybe he wanted to prove he was not always early ;-)
09:37 owen     :)
09:37 paul     owen 1st today !!!
04:55 hdl      Etonnant.
04:55 Sylvain  ça devait être à une époque ou ils avaient une version CVS pas stable
04:52 Sylvain  et pas de pb
04:52 Sylvain  je viens de tester sur la version qu'ils ont en ce moment
04:49 hdl      Et si tu peux mettre à jour ta versions et tester avec mes modifs.
04:49 Sylvain  j'vais te dire ça
04:49 Sylvain  j'essaye de regarder un peu plus en détail
04:49 hdl      Mais j'aimerais savoir si tu peux confirmer ou infirmer.
04:49 hdl      J'ai ajouté le script.
04:48 hdl      Pas grave.
04:48 hdl      Chez moi, je n'avais pas ce script et je n'avais pas d'erreur de suppression.
04:48 Sylvain  je t'avoue que le mois de vacances m'a un peu fait oublié ce que j'avais fait pour eux, j'vais regarder ;)
04:48 hdl      C'est un bug sur les autorités, un javascript ajouté sur les suppressions.
04:48 Sylvain  ok j'regarde
04:47 hdl      oui: 961
04:47 Sylvain  hdl  ?
04:42 Sylvain  parceque si je leur ai changé des choses non commitées ça devait vraiment être minime
04:42 Sylvain  tu peux me donner le num du bug?
04:40 hdl      En fait, c'est suite à un bug que Pascale a rapporté et que je n'ai pas dans ma version.
04:40 hdl      Je voulais savoir si tu avais modiif qqchose dans les autorités que tu n'arais pas commité.
04:40 hdl      oui.
04:39 Sylvain  euh hdl ;)
04:39 Sylvain  oui Sylvain ? Que puis-je pour toi ?
04:36 hdl      Sylvain dans le coin ?
04:25 thd      paul: 035 is the same for UNIMARC.
04:22 thd      paul: Of course, 001 is supposed to be stored in 035 for MARC 21 and 001 changed to a unique number on the local system after copy cataloguing.
04:18 paul     in the future we could probably be able to extend biblionumber format
04:17 paul     right, that's why biblionumber still can be put somewhere else ;-)
04:17 thd      paul: If I copy catalogue two different records from two different systems and do not change the 001 field there is always a chance that the 001 field will be the same number as one I have already.
04:17 paul     no
04:15 thd      paul: Is that because you are planning to no longer use biblionumber as a unique key for MARC Koha?
04:14 paul     & biblionumber can be in a tab, so shown to the user in MARC view
04:13 paul     (will be in 2.2.4)
04:13 paul     & in CVS, biblionumber can be mapped to anything, including 001
04:13 thd      :)
04:12 paul     none
04:12 thd      paul: Which other Koha table columns should not be mapped to a MARC subfield, in addition to biblionumber, biblioitemnumber, and itemnumber when migrating initially or cataloguing externally on a progressive basis and importing bulkmarcimport.pl?
03:58 thd      paul: yes, I did that for a books business to try to impose rationality on their legacy database that had been used like a free form sketchpad :)
03:57 thd      chris: well, you have numbers for copies that are only one digit and fit on the item using the smallest possible space and then also seem nicer to humans.  It is easy to know the total number of copies based on the highest copy number assigned.  Items with only one copy have no such copy number.
03:56 chris    yep, that could work too
03:56 paul     yep
03:56 chris    so 15-1, 15-2 etc paul ?
03:56 paul     that would make the job (i have 1 library working like this)
03:56 paul     biblionumber-item#
03:55 paul     an idea would be to have a barcode :
03:55 chris    the ones i deal with use barcode numbers to differentiate between copies
03:53 chris    whats the use of it?
03:52 chris    right, none of the ones i deal with do :)
03:52 thd      chris: All of the libraries I have ever seen number copies that way on the item itself and represent such numbers in the catalogue.  I have no idea how those systems tracked the numbers in a database but this convention predates automated library systems :)
03:50 chris    you could use items.notes
03:50 chris    so i havent bumped up against it
03:50 chris    non of the libraries i deal with have numbered their copies in that way
03:50 thd      chris: Of course, but how else might this be accomplished?
03:49 chris    not with using itemnumber
03:49 thd      paul, chris: How can I get the effect of  biblio 15 with copies 1 and 2; and biblio 16 with copies 1, 2, and 3.  This would be a conventional copy numbering nomenclature.
03:48 chris    must be non null and unique
03:48 chris    its the primary key of items
03:48 chris    yep itemnumber is a purely internal koha thing
03:48 chris    back
03:47 paul     yes
03:44 thd      paul: The I could have  biblio 15 with copies 1 and 2; and biblio 16 with copies 1, 2, and 3.  Does Koha need itemnumbers to be unique for the DB as a whole?
03:41 thd      paul: I would have expected that Koha would only need unique itemnumbers for each biblio but not unique across the entire DB.
03:41 hdl      It already does, in $9 I think.
03:39 thd      paul: I was hoping to find a way for Koha to place the Koha itemnumber in a MARC holdings field.  952 for example.
03:33 paul     mmm... not sure for itemnumber.
03:32 paul     if 952 is your item tag, then you should harm nothing.
03:28 thd      paul: What would I harm by mapping 952 $t for example to items.itemnumber?  "Do not expect to have every Koha table.column mapped to a MARC subfield. Some (such as biblionumber, biblioitemnumber, and itemnumber) are values generated by Koha and will probably be automatically mapped. Others are flags which are set in the course of normal circulation activities and will contain information that is not part of your MARC record."
03:13 thd      paul: Well I should not open a bug report about the notice.  I do not know how I should open a bug about a subtle problem that I cannot identify :)
03:12 paul     there's probably a subtle problem, which nickname is "bug" ;-)
03:10 thd      paul: My tests show items being exported but I do not know if there is a subtle problem.
03:09 paul     open a bug on bugzilla, i'll check later.
03:09 paul     yes, I see, but I don't know it t's true of false.
03:09 thd      paul: MARC export has this note "Note : the items are NOT exported by this tool"
03:07 paul     thd : i don't remember
03:02 thd      rach: sorry, for my initial untested suggestion about the koha.org home page on the koha-devel list.  My revised suggestion seems reasonable to me.
03:01 rach     sorry I'm going to have to go have dinner too, si is finally home
02:57 thd      paul: So, the warning about MARC export of items is not antiquated?
02:55 paul     "bon appétit" chris
02:54 chris    yay, dinner is here
02:52 paul     "rosalies bug list" recieved
02:52 rach     there is quite a big bug to do with groups that we fixed - is a big bug because you can't get to the group info
02:52 chris    will do
02:52 paul     ok, let me know on koha-devel once you've tested.
02:51 rach     we can certainly give that a go
02:51 paul     (in fact I would be surprised if it worked well ;-) )
02:51 paul     because i'm not sure at all it works well...
02:51 paul     (and as many items you want)
02:51 paul     >1 biblioitem
02:51 paul     1 biblio
02:51 paul     because it should work & i would be interested to know how it work with :
02:50 chris    yep, seems to work fine
02:50 paul     chris/rach : did you try to export MARC records (even if MARC=OFF)
02:50 rach     we were not intendingt o change it  = other than reports
02:49 paul     less than a dozen, not too important.
02:48 chris    any bugfixes ive made ive committed to HEAD
02:48 paul     how many "couple" ?
02:48 chris    some new reports they wanted
02:47 chris    2.2.2 with a couple of changes
02:47 chris    back
02:46 rach     hmm - I'm not sure we need to ask chris that
02:46 rach     but they haven't been given access to do final testing yet
02:46 rach     their it department is being slow, so it is all installed at the library
02:46 paul     with official release or a patched version ?
02:45 rach     well we think we do :-)
02:45 rach     yes
02:45 paul     do you have a working library with 2.2.x and MARC=OFF systempref ?
02:45 paul     yes, another question :
02:45 paul     I have what I need on acquisitions.
02:45 paul     no
02:44 rach     are there more bugs/features you want to ask me about? or just in general?
02:44 rach     we were interviewing staff today, and asked if they spoke any french
02:44 rach     :-)
02:43 paul     security by obscurity is proven once again to be stupid ;-)
02:42 paul     (french)
02:42 paul     http://www.vnunet.fr/actualite/logiciels/systemes_dexploitation/20050802005
02:42 paul     3 ways to remove "Windows Genuine Advantage" programm in 1 week... really lol
02:42 rach     but unless you use GST you might not care about them
02:42 rach     there were some more about how things were being added up (once we got some other bits working the the reciepts weren't quite right)
02:41 rach     on it's way
02:41 paul     as for some features/bugs, i have things to say ;-)
02:40 paul     send it to me, i'll answer on koha-devel.
02:40 paul     (no windows here, so only OOo, no MS word)
02:40 Sylvain  this receive/order discussion in the logs is quite interesting :)
02:40 paul     of course
02:40 rach     I can send you her list
02:40 paul     you've done  with bugs ?
02:40 rach     can you read an open office spreadsheet?
02:39 rach     and freight had got lost - No link to allow spreading the freight over the whole invoice
02:39 rach     so that is the one about the fields no longer being active on the recieve pages
02:39 rach     We'd like to continue being able to modify order details when receiving an order, by links from the receive an order screen, rather than having to go to modify an order to correct book fund, item type or round up the price, or to Edit Biblio to modify title or author.
02:39 rach     Receive an order
02:39 paul     (as well as some other probably)
02:38 paul     (quite easy to add a systempref "IntelligentLibrarian" to show or hide the button ;-) )
02:38 rach     Title search shortcircuits to New Zealand Institute of Management, as do many other screens in Acquisitions
02:38 rach     ah well it doesn't :-)
02:38 rach     oops
02:38 rach     Receive a periodical
02:38 rach     Receive a periodical
02:38 rach     Receive a periodical
02:38 paul     i never understood how "receive a periodical" wa supposed to work ;-)
02:38 rach     ah well yes - so horowhenua prefers not - so not a bug, more a preference :-)
02:37 paul     that's a flamewar : is the librarian doing it's job well enough ?
02:37 rach     which I think took you to simple acquisitions even if you weren't wanting to use them or something
02:37 paul     you just can clic on "add new biblio" if you are SURE that it does not exist.
02:37 rach     no there was an option on the acqui homepage to go straight to "add new biblio"
02:37 rach     Receive a periodical
02:36 paul     that's not the case ?
02:36 rach     that's for adding a new thing
02:36 rach      - We'd still like a bibliographic search to be the compulsory first move
02:36 rach     ah some you might not thing are bugs :-)
02:34 rach     I had a list from rosalie
02:34 Sylvain  ok I'm going to look logs in order to understand ;)
02:34 paul     any other bug rach ?
02:33 paul     hello sylvain (speaking about acquisition with chris & rachel)
02:33 osmoze   bonjour Sylvain
02:33 hdl      hi Sylvain.
02:33 Sylvain  salut tlm
02:33 paul     at least the API works like this ;-)
02:32 chris    that would be ideal
02:32 chris    yep
02:32 paul     when you create an order, it immediatly creates a biblio non-MARC and MARC.
02:32 paul     it's just that it non-MARC item can be simpler as the MARC one. it's exactly the same for biblio.
02:31 hdl      OK.
02:31 chris    in the donation budget :)
02:31 chris    under the supplier donation usually
02:31 paul     if it's not buggy & you have mapped non-MARC fields to MARC tag/subfields, then it should create the MARC item as well.
02:31 rach     so that you don't have to fill in the form twice
02:31 rach     yes - then they get put in this way, as order and reciept in one go
02:30 hdl      But i was told that sometimes, ppl would be sent books that they never ordered, as a gift or advertisement.
02:30 paul     it's not really a problem.
02:30 rach     yes paul - that is main problem, we've never had to use it with MARC
02:29 rach     yes
02:29 hdl      one cannot receive a book he didnot ask for ?
02:29 paul     however, it uses non-MARC API, so it creates only a partial item, of course.
02:29 rach     and add freight
02:29 rach     yes - so there is a bit more tricky stuff if you do recieve - we have some more checking about money for the library
02:28 chris    thats the one
02:28 paul     if you don't => no item creation.
02:28 paul     if you put a barcode => create an item.
02:28 paul     it should be the case when you recieve too.
02:28 rach     yes
02:28 paul     yes hdl.
02:28 hdl      If item barcode is given, you then create an item ?
02:28 paul     I look at everything here. and if it seems to be OK, i port it to 2.2 branch.
02:27 paul     you always can commit on head.
02:27 rach     but we weren't confident they work with your latest release - so didn't commit
02:26 rach     and it's fixed in the templates we sent to owen
02:26 rach     yes
02:26 paul     chris, did you fix those problems on katipo server ?
02:26 rach     yes- that was one of the bugs we found
02:26 hdl      Th fact is that our template doesn't have Item barcode.
02:26 rach     there might be tweaks you want to make, like we assumed if you had the book and were doing it this way there was no freight
02:25 hdl      ok.
02:25 rach     yep
02:25 chris    hi all
02:25 chris    koha makes the order and receives it all in one go, if the barcode is filled in
02:25 hdl      hi chris.
02:24 paul     hi chris
02:24 rach     ah like chris said
02:24 rach     but was actually in the library
02:24 rach     if you put in a barcode for an item, then koha should (well it did :-) know that it was not on order
02:24 chris    if the barcode is filled in, its all in one
02:24 rach     umm sorry hdl, I'm not sure I understand the question
02:24 rach     shows it a bit
02:24 rach     http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album15/acquisitions_7
02:23 hdl      rach : but how do you know it is an order/receive all-in-one ?
02:23 rach     and I think that the main field missing was proably the item barcode
02:22 rach     see ya rosa
02:22 ros      this time I am off. Ciao
02:22 rach     yeah - it made sense at the time :-)  one of the problems with the reciept forms is that the fields weren't all editable still
02:22 paul     (just a note : it's strange to put yellow on non mandatory fields. Usually, mandatory fields are highlighted !)
02:22 rach     so basically we had all the fields that you would need on the order part of the form - and the only real difference between the ordering and recieving form was that different bits became manditory
02:21 paul     no, I think I understand.
02:21 rach     sorry I don't think I have a screen shot which shows that clearly, but I could get you one if you like?
02:20 paul     right in summer we have only 10hours diff
02:20 ros      Nope, just 19.20 hours, which is time I moved on, it's true
02:20 rach     only 7.30pm
02:20 rach     So on our templates - the extra fields that you only have to fill in if you were doing the complete action, are a different colour (they had a yellow box around them) to indicate they are optional for that form
02:20 paul     isn't it 10PM in NZ ?
02:19 paul     still at the library ?
02:19 ros      hi Paul
02:19 paul     hi rosalie. Nice to read you
02:18 ros      if you have different discounts from different suppliers, it's worth putting them in as individuals
02:18 rach     that not all the fields were on the order page, so you couldn't do this maybe
02:18 rach     ah that I think is one of the things that was wrong with the templates
02:18 paul     hdl, this is interesting, read & don't hesistate to write ;-)
02:18 rach     and then just fill in all the fields - including barcode and the purchase price
02:17 rach     you pick a supplier
02:17 rach     you still have to have a supplier - but if you were customising for a library you might have a hidden supplier if that wasn't important
02:17 paul     how to do order/recieve in 1 action ?
02:16 rach     and for when they get donations of books
02:16 rach     horowhenua use this for just what you describe - when you go to the local bookshop and just get the book and put it in
02:16 rach     ok you can do an order/recieve in one action thereby bypassing actually having to recieve things
02:15 rach     so easy to miss
02:15 rach     basically was just template bugs
02:15 paul     because I chianged almost nothing (just some bugfixing) & adding some features like creating an order from a suggestion.
02:14 rach     ok well I'll have to go back to see my notes but I do have some
02:14 rach     ah right
02:14 paul     & i also wanted to know what worked in 1.2 and does not work in 2.2.x
02:14 paul     yep.
02:14 paul     beeping hdl_away too.
02:14 rach     oh you wanted to know about how to bypass doing order/reciept wern't you
02:14 paul     i wanted to speak of Acquisition
02:14 rach     yup
02:13 paul     do you have a few minuts ?
02:13 paul     hi rach
02:06 rach     hi ya paul as osmo|kfe
01:33 osmoze   :)
01:33 osmoze   good morning kohaaaa
14:13 thd-away :)
14:13 thd-away :(
14:12 kados    more power problems in Athens
14:06 tim      thd: I'll need help committing it, but it's not likely I'll figure something useful out myself anyway.
14:04 thd      tim: Of course, if you come up with any generally useful changes to Koha, commit them back to the source head.
12:44 tim      I'll check into that.  I'll also check into changing the way I do things.  It could be easier
12:40 thd      t set of numbers instead of merely a range.  That may be a more useful feature.
12:40 thd      tim: If you like using barcodes for that purpose investigate changing the template and repot it to the koha-devel list.  I would search the lists first and ask here to see if others have done something similar.  Actually, a better solution would be to obtain biblionumbers using a search that could include barcode and then export those.  Extra programming required but that may not be especially difficult if the export script can take a disjoin
12:32 tim      The biblionumbers don't go high enough to match the barcodes yet.
12:32 tim      And I figured it probably wanted the biblionumber, but was thinking it would give an error instead of export everything if I used the wrong numbers.
12:31 tim      Yeah.  I noticed that.
12:30 thd      tim: you have to use the numbers that Koha actually uses in that dialog unless you change the template and possibly more.  Those numbers should be whatever is in biblio.biblionumber.  Just so you know if you delete a record and start again Koha keeps incrementing numbers and assigning new numbers as if nothing had changed.
12:10 tim      That's what I'm used to with our current system.
12:10 tim      thd: If I remember right, I used my barcode numbers.