IRC log for #koha, 2005-07-29

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:29 shaun kados: are you aware that the Katipo folk have decided to use opencms?
14:18 kados shaun: I wasn't
14:19 kados OK ... I'm off to solve what I hope is the last of the power problems at APL: a possible bad UPS
16:13 shaun rach: fixed-width, fluid or max-width?
16:19 rach umm I need more context
16:19 rach for what?
16:22 shaun
16:26 rach default position is fluid - but if you need the homepage to be fixed width that is acceptable as long as you can justify it :-)
16:26 rach inside pages should be fluid
01:54 osmoze hello
02:09 thd-away osmoze: hello
02:10 thd-away What is the function of items.stack and items.binding?
02:13 thd-away Rachel: What does it mean when rach becomes Rachel?
02:17 thd rach: What does it mean when Rachel becomes rach?
02:22 chris it means her irc client has connected again, before the old connection has ping timedout
02:31 thd chris: What is the function of items.stack and items.binding?
02:36 osmoze do you know how to type address in parameter for logo ? it's the real path into the server or is the web adress ?
02:38 thd osmoze: Cannot you determine the solution with a simple experiment?
02:39 thd osmoze: I had imagined it was a URL but have never tested the result.
02:42 osmoze with a url, there is nothing....But i search ^^
02:44 osmoze purhups it's my logo ...
02:53 paul osmoze : you must type an address. Complete (ie, with http://...)
02:54 osmoze thanks paul, i think it's my logo who was not in a good format :)
02:57 osmoze paul, dans le module de gestion des periodique, on nous demande une date de debut, si je met par exempe juin, il me le prend pas, sous quelle forme doit elle etre ?
02:57 paul jj/mm/aaaa
02:58 osmoze merci :)
03:01 thd paul: Do you know the function of items.stack and items.binding?
03:01 paul nope, sorry
03:01 paul (/me will look in a few minuts)
03:02 thd paul: Do you kow what are the appropriate values for the integer (1) boolean columns in the items table?
03:18 osmoze paul, y a t il quelque part un how to pour les periodiques ? J ai un peu de mal a faire fonctionner
03:18 paul le bouton help ?
03:20 osmoze j ai regarder, mais en fait, j arrive pas a faire rentrer un abonnement, je crée une notice normalement, ensuite j ajoute un abonnement, mais il doit y avoir une couffe dans ma config quand je rentre l abo car apres, ca me le prend en compte mais a l opac, il me dit qu il y en a pas
03:20 osmoze bon, je cherche un peu ^^
03:27 osmoze en fait, il y a quelque chose que je comprend pas....Quand je lui dis par exemple que le 174 est arrive dans bulletin, dois-je ajouter un exemplaire ?
03:27 hdl osmoze : have you created supplier
03:28 osmoze yes
03:54 osmoze paul, quand je cherche un abonnement dans l intra, et que je clique sur details, dans n° parus, il me met que ceux en attente, et pas ce que j ai deja, es ce normal ?
06:39 kados paul: is the email a joke?
07:00 paul kados : calculate yourself which date is in 8 months & 4 days (beginning of 2nd quarter)
07:01 paul (no more power probkels ?
07:42 hdl paul : quelle réponse à osmoze ?
07:42 paul à la question de 10H54 ? je ne sais pas
07:45 kados paul: hehe
07:45 kados paul: no ... power back to normal now
08:27 thd paul: Were you able to discover anything about items.stack and items.binding?  I had grepped the source myself a couple of days ago without finding any obvious answer.
08:27 paul seems unused.
08:29 thd paul: Do you kow what are the appropriate values for the integer (1) boolean columns in the items table such as items.itemlost or items.withdrawn?
08:29 paul not sure but it's probably 0/1
08:29 paul 0 being "not", and anything else being "yes"
08:29 paul (yes item is lost for example)
08:32 thd paul: yes I would have guessed that but then I am always finding the use of negative numbers for boolean values in some applications instead of just 0 and 1.
08:36 thd paul: What can be done to have the leader imported as field 000 in  Every other field is imported using even if the field is not in the Koha MARC framework.
08:37 paul management of the leader is on the way
08:37 paul not yet available
08:42 thd paul: Why does some importation such as bulkmarkimport read whatever fields are in the record while others such as z39.50 and MARC import from within the application only read fields included in the Koha MARC framework?  I would have expected that they all would have called the same routine for the same function at some point in processing.
08:42 paul yes but no : if we do like this, then you have data that you can search on, but not see them ! quite strange behaviour don't you agree ?
08:43 thd paul: I am confused by your answer.
08:44 thd paul: your answer is logical but let me explain my confusion.
08:44 paul when you search "anywhere", you really search "anywhere". But when you look at biblio detail, you see only what you put in the framework !
08:47 thd paul: If I import a record with bulkmarkimport I can import 001 and 008 even if they are not defined in the framework.  Yet if I import with z39.50 daemon I cannot have 001 or 008 without their inclusion in the Koha MARC framework.
08:48 paul it's due to a weakness of Koha that I consider as a feature finally :
08:48 thd paul: In either case they do not appear in biblio detail.
08:48 paul when you bulkmarcimport, you are on the way to migrate your datas. So your framework may be not finished.
08:49 paul bulkmarcimport imports everything, and you can tune your framework after, using misc/migration_tools/
08:49 thd paul: OK that helps me too understand better.
08:49 paul that shows which subfields are used but "ignored" in framework & which are not "ignored" but never filled
08:49 paul ;-)
08:51 thd paul: When might leader importation be coming?
08:52 paul 2.2.4
08:52 paul (september)
08:52 thd :)
08:53 kados paul: when we get the Zoom API it will hopefully simplify the management of MARC records
08:54 paul right.
08:54 kados paul: will the current MARC tools in Koha be rewritten to use it?
08:54 kados (I'm not sure exactly how it's done now)
08:54 paul some wont work anymore & could not be used anymore
08:54 kados one thing I always worry about
08:54 kados is if I import a client's MARC records into Koha
08:55 kados there might be data loss
08:55 kados and every time they edit a record
08:55 kados there might be data loss
08:55 paul you mean with 2.2.x ?
08:55 kados yes
08:55 paul no loss except for leader.
08:55 paul guaranteed.
08:55 kados cool
08:55 kados leader isn't a big deal either
08:55 paul (0.01USD guarantee, of course)
08:55 kados hehe
08:56 paul rach don't know what to do today : stay or leave ;-)
08:57 thd paul: The leader is the most imortant field.  All the other data is lost without their leader?
08:57 thd :)
08:59 thd paul: The leader is at least mandatory for valid records it is just that systems usually ignore the contents and so it seems unimportant.
09:03 thd paul: If systems used the leader and other control fields in the OPAC etc., their importance would be obvious.  The contents is encoded so using the contents requires extra processing and imagination about what you can do with them.
09:03 thd paul: Will MARC import and export will be symmetrical at last in 2.2.4?
09:04 paul yes (at least if there is no bug ;-) )
09:04 thd :-)
09:05 thd paul: You could say that it is symmetrical already if there is no bug :)
09:05 paul the only thing is that I know the problem exists.
09:05 paul and it's not really a bug (from a tech pov), as it's un-coded : what is coded works !
09:07 thd What do MS Windows users of Koha generally use for a Z39.50 client?
09:09 paul I think yaz too, but it works poorly under windows
09:09 kados paul, thd it might actually be nice to use the leader for semantic distinctions
09:09 kados it defines material types too right?
09:10 thd kados: yes ther is much comment about that at great length in my almost finished email too you
09:10 kados great
09:10 kados thd: did you see my latest post to koha-devel?
09:10 kados thd: about Searching, etc.
09:11 thd kados: no I have not looked since late last night
09:11 kados might have info relevant to your email ... I'm not sure
09:16 thd kados: now that I have read the message, CQL is new and mature?
09:17 thd kados: :) usually they are not the same
09:17 thd kados: where is the blog?
09:20 kados thd: it's new as far as implementation ... it was created as a response to the pitfalls of Z39.50 Bib-1 and the limitations of Google-like syntax
09:20 kados so in that way it's mature
09:20 kados (standing on the shoulders of giants and all that)
09:21 thd kados: and past version 1.0 :)
09:21 kados thd: yea ;-)
09:22 thd kados: your message mensions a blog without giving an exact name or URL.
09:23 kados maybe?
09:24 kados if you can find Peter Binkley's Blog then I can't help you ;-)
09:31 thd kados: Is there a feature of Zebra that allows searching an index of any subfield?
09:32 kados thd: you'd have to setup the indexer to build an index on specific fields
09:32 kados thd: it's a three stage proces:
09:32 kados 1. define searchable fields and mappings, etc.
09:32 kados 2. run the indexer
09:32 kados 3. search on the indexer
09:32 kados erp ... search on the Index
09:36 thd kados: Does CQL allow extension for searching on custom indexes as a new named search parameter?
09:40 kados have folks seen:
09:40 kados thd: yep ... it's fully extensible
09:40 thd kados: I am asking about what tools would expose the maximum information in a MARC record for when that is useful.  Especially information like what you had asked about, material type.
09:40 kados yea so we could define a new namespace: koha.*
09:41 kados and koha.leader=xxx could define materials or sth
09:42 thd kados: material type can only reliably be determined from the leader and requires interpreting the encoded value of 2 positions together for very common cases.
09:42 kados yep ... not too hard to to
09:42 kados I'm fairly certain Zebra could do that
09:42 thd kados: 2 separate values from the leader in combination
09:44 kados yep ... could you post to koha-zebra a explaination of how a leader search would work
09:44 kados thd: and ask whether Zebra could do one?
09:45 thd kados: That is a a large task unless you want to limit it to material type to start with.
09:49 kados thd: limit to material type to start with ... but I think the best thing to do would be to ask the Index Data folks if it's possible
09:49 kados thd: and whether it's useful
09:49 kados thd: and that's what the koha-zebra list is for
09:50 thd kados: You have language for example.  Language, leader positions 35-37, is mandatory and is the most reliable place to find the primary language of the work.  Language code field 41 is used when applicable to supplement positions 35-37.  Language note field 546 is optional and cannot be relied upon to appear even in national level records.
09:54 thd Oops s/leader/008
09:56 hdl kados ?
09:58 kados hdl: here
09:58 thd Leader stops at position 23 :) but there are similar complexities.
10:00 thd All the control fields look alike when they just have a XXX number in front :)

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