IRC log for #koha, 2005-07-15

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:00 owen For our library, I'm talking about pretty simple stuff: like a framework with only 3 or 4 tags
12:00 thd owen: the templates hide unneeded fields.
12:01 owen Oh, you mean in setting up the subfields, right.
12:01 thd owen: Or fields too.
12:01 owen i guess I hadn't thought of that approach.
12:03 thd owen: MARC records were meant to be exchanged between institutons, you can provide benefits to the user from the data in hidden fields without burdening the user with looking at that data directly in the editor or OPAC view.
12:04 hdl thd : sure. I agree with you.
12:04 owen But when I create a MARC record at my branch for a periodical that's going to get recycled in three months, I'm not going to do more than add information in a couple of tags.
12:05 thd owen: When copy cataloguing you can get the benifit of someone elses hard work, without lokking at the details.
12:06 thd owen: Would you not have a record for the serial title where you are only changing issue information?
12:06 hdl That's where Z3950 clients and servers are important ;)
12:07 owen thd: because Koha doesn't handle serials well enough to use it in our library
12:07 thd hdl: exactly, no one should ever need to create his own records if better ones are available elsewhere a few key strokes away.
12:08 hdl Sure, but Frameworks are a way to display information cleverly and usefully.
12:09 owen Okay, so even with the choice of hiding tags instead of deleting them in a new framework, I still have the problem of having to go in and edit possibly dozens of tags
12:09 thd owen: what serials defecit are you referring too.  Koha is missing some the good holdings fields from the MARC21 framework.  The should be put in the framework by default.
12:09 hdl thd : OK.
12:10 owen Koha can keep track of issues, but you can't attach item information to individual issues, so they can't circulate
12:10 hdl But Owen says he needs only 3 or 4 tags..
12:10 hdl that's why he asks for a facility in editing a new framework.
12:11 hdl Frameworks are a powerfull feature in Koha.
12:11 thd owen:  I see the problem now.
12:12 thd owen: The defect is how Koha treats items for holdings in that case.
12:12 hdl But USMARC is far more richer than the needs of any library, or only for powerfull library which have dozens of cataloguers ;)
12:13 hdl No he merely asked me to make a checkbox in create a new framework....
12:13 hdl I sould simply do this.
12:13 thd hdl: you can take advantage of the power within the system yet hide the details from the user.
12:14 thd hdl: since you do not have to create your own records but just modify 3 or 4 fields.
12:14 hdl Yes But then, it is a setting issue, not a developpment one.
12:16 hdl We should have good and up-to-date default frameworks in any language... And would be able to choose from the tags which one are valuable.
12:16 hdl But that's another story/problem....
12:16 thd It should only be a settings issue but the most detailed serials holdings fields are missing from the framework
12:17 hdl which ones ?
12:18 hdl In Unimarc, they are in.
12:18 hdl ;)
12:18 thd items should be able to identify an issue of a serial so that the rest of the infromation is obtained from the main MARC record for the title.
12:18 hdl UNIMARC norm is a 600 pages book. I think USMARC is the same .
12:19 hdl I worked on 4XX links in UNIMARC... ;)
12:19 hdl I don't know USMARC normalization.
12:20 thd hdl: UNIMARC does not have comparable holdings field for the bibliographic format to those in MARC21.  This has been a problem for academic libraries in France.
12:21 hdl thd : 4XX fields have now two ways : Copy information or simply link to another biblio.
12:21 hdl IMO, it is basically the same as what you tell holding fields.
12:21 thd hdl: recommendation 995 is not good for machine reading of missing issues, or years, and varient electonic database holdings.
12:21 hdl Or is there a difference ?
12:22 hdl I don't speak about items. That's another pb.
12:22 thd thd goes to check the documentation
12:22 hdl But about serials and detailing articles in them.
12:23 hdl thd : owuld you mind providing me with a USMARC complete doc ?
12:29 thd hdl: do UNIMARC records detail articles in journals as opposed to other types of serials?
12:30 hdl No.
12:31 hdl in UNIMARC, you can have 4 levels of details....
12:31 thd hdl: has concise formats for MARC21 for bibligraphic and other formats as well as some simple explanations.
12:31 hdl thx.
12:36 hdl To Continue 19:32 You can have an article linked to an issue linked to the serial.... Each of these parts woul be a biblio, but with more and more detailed information.
12:36 thd hdl: is a copy of more detailed manuals from LC with free access where LC charges a fee for access to the same material.  The content, however, if not the display system, is public domain in the US.
12:39 hdl thx.
12:40 thd hdl: MARC21 allows for the same but it is little used.  However, I believe cataloguing practise in continental Europe often creates separate records for each volume in a set or series instead of one as is common using AACR.
12:41 hdl But how is it achieve to catalogue an article then ?
12:42 hdl If a person would make a search, wouldn't the search only look at titles and then ...????
12:43 hdl Or is it coped with by the use of SeeAlso fields ?
12:50 thd hdl: articles in journals are linked with OpenURL resolvers.  OpenURL resolvers need detailed holdings information.
12:51 thd Koha MARC21 framework is missing, amongst others, fields 853-865 for detailed holdings information.
12:55 thd Koha MARC21 fromework has text holdings fields that are easy for humans to read but difficult for computers to parse.  Fields 853-865 can be difficult for humans to read and must be no fun to catalogue without good supporting software.
13:06 thd hdl: Serials and books can have detailed contents specified in MARC21 but that level of cataloguing is unusual and almost never done for journal articles where indexing and abstracting databases together with OpenURL address that problem.  Some libraries may routinely catalogue multi-author contents for non-journal serials and books, and that is becoming easier with that information sometimes encoded in an ONYX file from the publisher.  Those
13:06 thd extra hard working libraries would be the ones to copy catalogue from with your z39.50 search :)
13:29 Ryanbisd is kohas marc records system setup for any specific marc database type?
13:29 Ryanbisd (not marc21 or unimarc) but the way the fields are displayed?
13:45 thd Ryanbisd: We were just discussing a closely related issue.
13:46 thd owen: If I want field XXX to appear in the MARC editor I must change the template, right?
13:46 owen You have to edit the framework
13:47 thd owen: I see the setting for make visible in the framework, but that changes nothing for me.
13:49 Ryanbisd also, are holdings stored in the marc information?
13:51 thd Ryanbisd: They should be stored there in the 8XX fields for MARC21.
13:52 Ryanbisd humm.. foir some reason, either the marc magician isnt adding them, or koha isnt reading it right...
13:52 owen thd: I'm not sure what you mean by 'making visible in the framework'
13:52 Ryanbisd also, is there a step that I run after
13:52 owen You have to set the 'tab' value for the tag's subfields in
13:53 Ryanbisd in our follett export program, its like it keeps the call number and barcodes seperate from the actual marc record
13:54 Ryanbisd but, it appears in the marc record viewer......... aggravating me
13:54 owen Ryanbisd: I think it's fairly common for systems to store "item information" separately from the MARC record
13:55 thd owen: I have not looked for a while, as I had been concentrating on other issues.  If changing the is necessary then it is a user friendly task with a nice interface :)
13:55 Ryanbisd does koha store it seperatley?
13:56 owen Koha stores it both in the MARC record and in other tables in the database.
13:56 thd Ryanbisd: what type of file are the call number and barcodes in for your export from Follet?
13:56 owen So you do you have to have a place for them in the MARC record.
13:56 owen But for most operations Koha refers to the 'items' or 'biblioitems' tables.
13:57 Ryanbisd It should export them all in one file...
13:57 Ryanbisd but I cant tell if it does or not...
13:58 owen Ryanbisd: It could very well be that Follette *won't* export them for you all in one file.
13:58 owen I wouldn't be so surprised if it didn't.
13:59 Ryanbisd see, but we have a 3rd party exporter we use called Marc Magician that should let us..
13:59 Ryanbisd it gives the information, just not as a Marc record entry
13:59 Ryanbisd as far as I know, I cant view the file....
14:01 Ryanbisd but, under "export options" it lists several different database types (I assume) such as Follett, Libraryzone, etc, etc.
14:02 thd Koha uses the local use 952 field by default as the field linked for items.
14:04 thd Ryanbisd: The export options in MARC Magician, are they for the format you are exporting from or the format you are exporting to.
14:05 tim I exported MARC records from a Follett system a few years back.
14:06 thd tim: How did you go about that task?
14:06 Ryanbisd both
14:06 tim Their records weren't very complicated, but if I remember right, the copy information was in the 852 tags.
14:06 thd tim: What software did you use for export?
14:07 tim I can't remember a darn thing about how I did anything with it.
14:07 tim It was an old DOS based version.
14:07 thd tim: :)
14:07 tim I just went in one day to help them get their records out so they could switch to a different system.
14:08 tim Looked kinda cool in a klunky sorta way :)
14:08 thd At least everything runs faster in MSDOS than MSWindows.
14:08 Ryanbisd I am installing marc magician right now, so once its setup, I can give you some more info..
14:08 tim Yup.  Windows woulda choked trying to do the same work on that system.
14:10 thd Ryanbisd: You should export into the standard MARC communications format.  I have not used MARC Magician for many years.
14:10 tim I'd think the best thing would be to try to export directly from Follett if you can.
14:11 tim thd: I missed a question.  I exported directly from Follett.
14:11 thd Ryanbisd: I believe it allowed you to map any field and subfield combination to any other so you could taylor a conversion from one system to another.
14:13 Ryanbisd what is the barcode field and dewey for koha?
14:13 thd MARC Magician maybe a useful tool even if you use Follet directly to export the data initially.
14:14 thd Ryanbisd: barcoce is 952 $p by default
14:15 tim I chucked the call number into 952 $a because Athena had it split into a pile of 852 subfields.  Dunno what's the best place to put it.
14:16 thd Ryanbisd: look at system preferences MARC lincs items http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/
14:18 thd A pile of 852 subfields would be good but Koha has to be designed and/or setup to use them.
14:20 tim We have what Athena calls the prefix, main, cutter and suffix.  I put 'em all together into one tag for Koha.
14:22 Ryanbisd alright, Marc Magician is asking me to choose which kind of holding I want to use.
14:22 thd tim: Koha should understand how to assemble the constituent parts correctly but I guess it does not yet.
14:22 Ryanbisd Alexandria
14:22 thd Ryanbisd: what are the options
14:22 Ryanbisd athena
14:22 Ryanbisd dynix
14:22 Ryanbisd follet plus 4.1
14:22 Ryanbisd 5.0
14:22 Ryanbisd unison
14:22 Ryanbisd library pro 2.2
14:23 Ryanbisd library world 2.2
14:23 Ryanbisd mandarin EZ transfer
14:23 Ryanbisd 852 qith 1 part call number
14:23 thd Ryanbisd: Is this for the source file or the destination file?
14:26 Ryanbisd it didnt say... Im assuming how to read the records.... it was used just during the initial setup
14:26 Ryanbisd Im importing the records now... once thats done I will let you know what the info says
14:27 thd Ryanbisd: While you were diconnected you missed 2 ansers I had given you to earlier questions.
14:27 thd Ryanbisd: barcode is 952 $p by default in Koha
14:28 Ryanbisd cool...
14:28 thd Ryanbisd: look at system preferences : MARC links : items, http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/
14:31 Ryanbisd what do you want me to look for there?
14:33 thd Ryanbisd: that shows you the items table mappings to MARC
14:33 Ryanbisd alright... I have my Marc DB up in Marc Magician.
14:33 Ryanbisd now.. from the main view it shoes the call number and barcode..
14:34 thd Ryanbisd: the biblioitems table has the call number.
14:34 Ryanbisd but, when I click on the records it doesnt show this information in the actual marc record
14:35 thd Ryanbisd: there is a selection box for choosing the table at that URL above.
14:36 thd Ryanbisd: Are you now referring to Koha or MARC Magician?
14:36 Ryanbisd sorry, marc magician
14:37 thd Ryanbisd: do you have the option of mapping the information to a MARC field and subfield for export
14:38 Ryanbisd im not sure, hold on
14:40 thd Ryanbisd: For default Koha behaviour, call number to 942 $k and map barcode to 952 $p.
14:43 Ryanbisd alright, our marc records set the dewey up to 900a
14:45 thd Ryanbisd: Is the complete call number in 900 $a ?
14:45 Ryanbisd yes
14:45 Ryanbisd im tyring to see if it will export it to 942 $k
14:47 thd Ryanbisd: Check each of the tables at http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/ to be sure the data you will import matches or edit the field in Koha to remap to whatever you import into Koha.
14:49 Ryanbisd alright, so, where in koha do i go to add 900.a
14:49 Ryanbisd when I go to dewey, it doesnt have that as an option.
14:49 thd Ryanbisd: There is more to consider than just the call number and barcode.  You need a biblionumber and biblioitem as a key.  I have not done a system conversion for Koha yet so I am not the best one to advise about all the issues.
14:52 thd Ryanbisd: Dewey has nothing by default for Koha, however, classification is mapped to 942 $k
14:52 Ryanbisd I see that, but there is no option to 900 a
14:53 thd Ryanbisd: You need someone more familiar with Koha than I to distinguish the use of dewey and classification in Koha.
14:54 thd Ryanbisd: You would need to edit the MARC framework and add 900 $a
14:54 thd Ryanbisd: 9XX are local use fields.  900 is not defined by default in Koha.
14:57 thd Ryanbisd: Edit the biblio framework from system preferences : biblio framework
14:59 thd Ryanbisd: After following the link for MARC structure you would be at http://"your base admin address"/cgi-bin/koha/admin/mar​
15:00 thd Ryanbisd: Add tag is at the bottom of the page.
15:08 thd Ryanbisd: Do your records have a unique control number in field 001?
15:09 Ryanbisd yup
15:11 thd Ryanbisd: you should be sure that the Koha MARC framework includes any field you have in your records so that Koha has the information.  You may need to add the fixed fields 001 to 008.  They are not part of the default Koha MARC framework yet.
15:15 thd Ryanbisd: 001 could be used for the biblioitemnumber field in the biblioitems table instead of the Koha default 090 $d.
15:16 Ryanbisd You wanna look at my marc records??  hahah
15:17 Ryanbisd i dont understand why it shows the barcode info in the main view...
15:17 Ryanbisd but in the marc view it desnt show it..
15:17 Ryanbisd but, its all comming from the same darn file
15:18 thd Ryanbisd: I think that is a template issue.  Owen is disconnected, too bad.
15:19 tim Athena won't show the tags used for copy information in MARC view.  I just figured with both acting that way that it was a feature.
15:20 thd tim: what file does the user have to modify for a different functionality in Koha for the MARC view and other views?
15:21 Ryanbisd thats what it is...
15:21 Ryanbisd if I knew what template it was, it would show up..
15:21 thd tim: to see fields hidden by default, which files should be modified?
15:22 tim thd: I'm just finally getting somewhere with this.  I still don't know much about making any changes.
15:23 tim But I think you'd need to change the MARC mappings.
15:23 tim If I'm understanding the question.
15:24 Ryanbisd yeah... I can go thru the whole list in marc magician, and find barcode.
15:25 tim Where's the barcode tag in your records?
15:26 tim You'd want to map that tag to items.barcode
15:26 thd Owen said in answer to changing which fields appear in the MARC editor that, "You have to set the 'tab' value for the tag's subfields in"
15:28 tim Yeah.  You need to add the subfields to a tab.
15:28 thd Ryanbisd said that barcodes were in 900 $a on the Follet system.
15:29 thd oops that was the call number
15:30 Ryanbisd i have no idea where the barcode tag is...
15:30 Ryanbisd its shows up, but it doesnt show up in the tag
15:31 thd Ryanbisd: did you find no export option in MARC magician to put the barcode in a field and subfield of you choice?
15:31 Ryanbisd i would have to know the field it was stored in first..
15:32 tim Is there somplace on the net where you can put some records so we can grab the file and take a look at it?
15:32 Ryanbisd yeah.. .hold up
15:32 tim Just a small sample
15:33 thd Ryanbisd: If you export a record and inspect where the barcode appears, then you should know as long as the barcode is exported.
15:37 thd owen: what files need to be modified for changing what fields appera for various views?  Is it just the *.pl file for a particular view?
15:39 owen Are you talking about pages like
15:39 thd owen: yes
15:40 owen Sometimes the variables are made available by the script, but not included in the template.  Other times the script and template both must be changed.
15:40 owen Are you thinking of anything in particular?
15:40 Ryanbisd
15:40 Ryanbisd opps... 001
15:41 thd owen: Ryanbisd asked a related question when you were disconnected
15:41 Ryanbisd those are 10 marc records
15:43 thd Ryanbisd: Have these records been modified by MARC Magician or are they direct from Follett?
15:45 Ryanbisd they came from marc magician
15:45 Ryanbisd but havent been altered.
15:53 thd Ryanbisd: what is the barcode for one of those appearing in the set you exported?
15:57 owen Ryanbisd: the lack of barcode/item information in is a bug in the NPL template
15:58 thd Ryanbisd: You should define the leader as field 000 for the MARC framework and fixed fields 001 to 008 make best use of your records losslessly in Koha.  A default should already be provided but it is not.
15:59 Ryanbisd t0060186
15:59 Ryanbisd that was the barcode for Woog, Adam
15:59 thd owen: Why were the leader and the other fixed fields left out of the default MARC framework for Koha?
16:00 owen Got me.
16:01 thd Ryanbisd:  Your barcodes are in 852 $p
16:01 thd owen: What system was NPL using before Koha?
16:02 owen Spydus.  Now called Civica, I think?
16:03 thd owen: what happened to your leader and 001-008 fixed field information after conversion to Koha?
16:05 owen I don't know
16:09 owen I'm not a cataloging expert, so it wasn't on my radar
16:09 thd owen: It vanished into the ether or stayed in the backup set of data from prior to the Koha conversion if you did not add fields 000-008 to your MARC framework.
16:10 owen Okay.
16:10 owen was that a quiz? :)
16:11 thd owen: there is a lot of useful and required information in those fields.  Koha should be exploiting that information not making it vanish, although, the user never needs to see it in raw format.
16:12 thd owen: no, I just imagined that with circa 350,000 records you would have added to the framework to preserve the information in Koha at the time of conversion.
16:13 thd owen:  Is circa 350,000 records correct?
16:13 Ryanbisd sweet...
16:13 Ryanbisd so, what does that me that I do now?
16:13 Ryanbisd ahahah
16:14 owen 300k items, not records
16:15 Ryanbisd I have my barcodes set to 852p in
16:16 Ryanbisd do I need to rerum bulmarcimport?
16:16 thd Ryanbisd: You should do what NPL may not have done, and define the leader as 000 and fixed fields 001-008 in the MARC framework to preserve and use that information.
16:19 thd Ryanbisd: you need to discover how your system treats multiple copies of the same bibliographic manifestation.  Do they each have their own MARC record?
16:20 Ryanbisd no, I dont belive so.
16:21 Ryanbisd actually, I think they do
16:21 thd owen: how many separate records do you have for circa 300,000 items?
16:21 Ryanbisd now that I look at them
16:21 owen When I count(biblionumber) from biblio I get 146685
16:23 thd Owen: do you delete the records for the recycled serial issues or just hide them from view?
16:23 owen Delete
16:25 owen I'm not sure how those numbers add up, though, because they would imply that we have a lot of biblios with no items attached.
16:25 Ryanbisd alright, I have barcode set for 852p...
16:25 Ryanbisd do I need to reimport the marcs
16:25 thd owen: :)
16:25 Ryanbisd or should that info just appear now?
16:26 thd Ryanbisd: Have you already imported all your records?
16:26 Ryanbisd well, just the ones that im using right now, yes
16:26 Ryanbisd but I can re-import them if need be
16:28 tim should fix things up after the change shouldn't it?
16:28 thd owen: Does Koha automatically assign an incremented value for biblionumber and itemnumber when importing with bulkmarcimport ?
16:30 thd owen: ... where itemnumber would be set to 1?
16:30 owen I haven't used bulkmarcimport myself, but I assume it must have to
16:30 Ryanbisd should I try that
16:31 Ryanbisd and, will that put it in to my inventory?
16:31 thd Ryanbisd: rebuildnonmarc sounds right and tim must know.  I have never tried.
16:32 Ryanbisd should I do that on the import file, or what?
16:32 tim will increment bilionumber and itemnumber for you.
16:33 tim will just move things around in what's already loaded on your system.
16:33 SteveL DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Column 'biblionumber' cannot be null at /home/ryan/koha-2.2.2/modules//C4/ line 1522.
16:33 SteveL .DBD::mysql::db do failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax near '' at line 1 at ./ line 98.
16:33 Ryanbisd thats what we are getting
16:34 Ryanbisd if you want to take a look at our settings in koha you can go to
16:34 Ryanbisd theusername is kohaadmin
16:34 Ryanbisd pw is temp123
16:39 thd Ryanbisd: had you checked whether system preferences MARC check was iwthout errors, before running any action?
16:39 thd s/preferences/administration
16:41 tim All this talk about fixed tags made me look for what was put in Koha.
16:41 tim Our 008 tags were a mess and it made multiple 008 tags for a lot of the records with nothing in them.
16:43 thd tim: Do you mean that your tags were a mess in your source records or that you added 008 to the Koha MARC framework and then the import went wrong for 008?
16:44 tim The 008 tags were a mess before the import.  Mostly a bunch of | characters causing Koha to start a new tag.
16:44 tim I think these were the recordsthat were done by someone else to get us automated.
16:44 thd tim: you should have used MARC lint first.
16:45 tim It's just a test system, so I still have time.
16:45 tim I just need to figure out how to use it :)
16:46 thd tim: I only have valid copy catalogued records for my use so far, and therefore, I have not had to worry about that issue yet :)
16:47 tim Ours were supposed to be valid copy catalgued records.
16:48 tim But it was a free retro-conversion, so I guess we can't complain a whole lot.
16:48 tim And since it's 8 or 9 years after the fact....
16:49 tim I'll look it up.  Is it the MARC::lint perl module you're talking about?
16:50 Ryanbisd im just re-running
16:50 tim If it is.  It looks like I already have it, so all I need is to figure out how to use it.
16:50 Ryanbisd that should put in the added barcode info, right?
16:51 thd tim: yes
16:51 tim Thanks.  I'll look into that.
16:52 thd Ryanbisd: you have an error in your configuration
16:52 Ryanbisd ?
16:52 tim Ryanbisd: did you use the d option with  That clears your records and starts fresh.
16:52 Ryanbisd yeah, we did
16:52 thd Ryanbisd: item fields  ALL items fields MUST :
16:52 thd    * be mapped to the same tag,
16:52 thd    * and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab
16:53 thd Ryanbisd: that is from MARC Checks in System Administration
16:53 Ryanbisd are you talking about the biblonumber?
16:53 Ryanbisd because I changed that back
16:54 Ryanbisd its importing the records
16:55 thd Ryanbisd: What did you change it back to?   MARC check still shows the same error message for your system.
16:56 Ryanbisd I changed the biblonumber back to the same as the biblioitemnumber
16:56 Ryanbisd i had accidently changed it to nothing earlier
16:57 thd Ryanbisd: you should hve no errors before you import any records or things will not work right
16:57 Ryanbisd alright...
16:58 Ryanbisd alright...
16:58 Ryanbisd what does that error mean exactly?
16:59 thd Ryanbisd: I do not know what happens if you import without a validated set of tables.
17:00 thd Ryanbisd: It seems to be complaining of an improper mapping for itemnumber in the items table.
17:02 thd Ryanbisd: If you imported with an invalid set of tables the results may be very unpredictable and it may be easier to drop the database and start fresh than fix an error that cannot be fixed but I do not know.
17:02 Ryanbisd what is the items tab?
17:02 thd Ryanbisd: I believe that means items table.
17:02 Ryanbisd alright... we are out for today!!!
17:03 Ryanbisd continue this tomorrow.....
17:03 Ryanbisd thanks guys
17:04 kados msg rach so that's about 1,600 US eh?
17:04 kados oops ;-)
17:06 rach :-)
18:01 ryanbisd "guess whos back.... back again"
18:05 thd ryanbisd: yes
18:05 ryanbisd im just hangin out in here...
18:05 ryanbisd no questions rigt now...
18:05 ryanbisd my brain is super fried
18:07 thd ryansbisd: best to supercool your brain before extra strain :)
18:10 ryanbisd I know...
18:11 ryanbisd Im fairly new to linux, and all that encompasses that..
18:11 ryanbisd and I have NO idea about anything library oritnets
18:11 ryanbisd oriented
18:11 ryanbisd so..
18:22 Genji morning all.
18:22 Genji its 11:22.
18:23 Genji anyone know the maximum length of characters a textarea can hold?
18:25 Genji indradg: know the maximum length of characters a textarea can hold?
18:27 thd Genji: are you aking an HTML question?
18:27 Genji yup
18:28 Genji When using the get method to send data to an HTTP server, the amount
18:28 Genji of data that can be sent is limited by the maximum length of a URL.
18:28 Genji In this case the URL cannot be longer than 2048 bytes."
18:28 Genji so.. nevermind.
18:30 Genji guess i might have to use a browser push for importing stocktake data.
18:34 Genji oooh.. looks easy.
18:36 thd Genji: what was the new feature you were implementing?
18:37 thd Genji: with the shelf barcode for Koha
18:42 Genji its for stocktaking/loading books onto bookshelves.
18:43 Genji Stocktaking barcode scanner, you scan the bookshelf barcode, then the books... bookshelf barcode, then the books.
18:43 Genji So, you have this big file, with shelf barcode, then books following it.
18:43 thd Genji: where is the shelf barcode stored?
18:43 Genji in bookshelf.barcode
18:44 Genji also... items has items.physicalshelf
18:44 Genji which is a number that goes to bookshelf.shelfnumber
18:49 thd Genji: did you change the templates so that they appear to the user?
18:52 Genji haven't finished the feature yet. but on my copy, proof of concept is[…]
18:55 thd Genji: I assume the shelf barcode is not visible there
18:55 Genji did you look?
18:56 Genji hmm... anyway.. why would an opac user need to know the shelf barcode? They wouldn't really.
18:56 thd Genji: Yes I looked but, I did not know how to identify what you had added from the labels at that URL
18:57 thd Genji: a shelf barcode could suport a map of eactly where to find the book
18:57 Genji oh.. hold on. wierd.... hmm... gimme one second.
18:58 thd Genji: I read abbout someone hacking that feature onto an Innovative Interfaces ILS
19:01 Genji k. take a look at the url again.
19:02 thd Genji: a map of the shelving system keyed to the items gives you an exact location that can be signified with a mark
19:02 Genji for most koha libraries, they use the itemtype as a physical representation.
19:02 Genji hmmm..... interesting.. a visual map....
19:03 thd Genji: What should I see at the URL?
19:03 Genji the second item should show a location in brackets.
19:04 thd Genji: yes it had but it did not seem like a shelf designation so I was confused
19:05 Genji err.. its in the location field....
19:05 Genji its where the callnumber field would show, if it did have acallnumber.
19:06 thd Genji: I had seen that origianlly, It just confused me when I saw room istead of shelf.
19:08 Genji ya. we have two rooms in our library. the Meditation room (hardly gets used for meditation anymore) and the hall.
19:10 thd Genji: Browsing shelves remotely would be nice.  There are may ways what you have done could be extended for novel features.
19:11 Genji so, yes, the physical shelves will be remotely browsable.
19:13 thd Genji: Would need a search by shelf feature with an forward and previous link for adjacent shelves.
19:19 Genji hmm... could be done.
19:46 Genji might want to create a totally new table, though. one with pointers to previous and next shelf.
19:46 Genji so.. it would be like.... shelfname, category, barcode, previous, next
19:47 thd unfortunately I have to depart a few minutes ago
21:50 jo Chris - are you about.
21:50 chris yep jo
21:50 jo hiya
21:50 jo i'm typingin hlt for you
22:14 ryanbisd whats up guys
07:32 Ryanbisd mornin guys
07:44 mason hi ryan, whatcha up to?
09:43 thd Ryanbisd: Do you have everything reloaded in Koha?
10:02 Ryanbisd I never figured out what the errors meant to change
10:02 Ryanbisd should I delete the DB and start over?
10:02 Ryanbisd not just the data, but the whole DB, and rebuild it
10:22 thd Ryanbisd: If you do not find an obvious source of the error, I think it might be less time and trouble to delete the database and start again from the point where I imagine your are in your tests.  The warning about not doing anything without passing MARC check is very strong and just maybe you will have invalid data trapped somewhere in the database otherwise, but I have no detailed knowledge to use as a basis of judgement.
10:30 thd Ryanbisd: Just be sure that "System Administration : MARC Check" is good before importing again.  Also, if you make configuration changes that might affect database integrity, then it seems prudent to use MARC Check before working with data.
10:35 thd Ryanbisd: The problem you might have attempting to only purge data at this point is that you maybe unable to purge some data because it does not have a properly identified key unless you use the database directly and know exactly where to find all the data.  Unpurged data might cause strange problems.
10:44 thd Genji: are you still there?

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