IRC log for #koha, 2005-06-14

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
19:10 gavin
19:10 gavin hi all
19:10 rach hi
19:10 gavin kados: any luck with that marc data?
01:57 hdl hi
06:29 kados hi all
06:52 paul_away hi joshua/kados
06:53 paul what's new about your 2.4 features/roadmap ?
06:53 paul you can include me for at least 2 features :
06:53 paul * managing the leader.
06:54 paul should be easy, with a simple trick : i'll store the leader in a "000" MARC field (& change 000 to leader in
06:54 paul + writing a plugin to fill it & do some automatic changes where needed after storing (like date...)
06:54 paul * what we call in french "listes de circulation" (don't know the word in english)
06:55 paul it's saying how we should distribute the item once he arrives (=who should read it)
06:55 paul there are 2 kindw of "listes de circulation". start & circle.
06:55 paul s/start/star/
06:55 paul the star means the doc goes back to the librarian after each reading.
06:56 paul the circle means reader X gives it to reader X+1 on the list
07:05 paul beeping kados ... if you have a minut could you help me for an english template.
07:05 paul read here pls :
07:05 paul[…]&selectview=small
07:06 paul is the text correct & easy to understand in english. I'm afraid it can be improved.
07:06 paul the 1st date (12/12/2004) is the date where the subscription began, for the 1st time
07:06 paul the 2nd date (01/01/2005) is the date where the subscript has been renewed for the last time.
07:07 paul (note that dates values are stupid, they are just for sample)
07:07 paul thanks for your opinion.
07:22 kados paul: sorry ... writing an email
07:22 kados back now
07:22 paul no pb, i'm staying here for some hours ;-)
07:22 kados I can't read that page
07:23 paul why ?
07:23 kados 18320,N°18321,N°18322,N°18323
07:23 kados that's what it looks like
07:23 paul with firefox ?
07:23 kados yep
07:24 paul isit better now ?
07:24 paul (note you may need to change language to english)
07:24 paul (as it's french by default iirc)
07:24 kados ahh ;-)
07:25 kados Subscription information for Test logiciel en pratique
07:25 paul that's it
07:25 kados t began on 12/12/2004 and is issued every   for  1 weeks 12 months
07:25 kados Last renewal of subscription was 01/01/2005
07:25 kados This subscription is now ended. The last issue was recieved on 01/01/2006
07:25 kados Destinataire : CDI
07:26 kados Recieved issues
07:26 paul (ignore "destinataire CDI", it has been entered in notes by EMN)
07:26 kados 18320 à 18344
07:26 kados (ok)
07:26 kados it's understandable in English
07:27 paul understandable OK. But is there a better way to write it ?
07:27 kados (every ?)
07:27 kados hmmm
07:27 kados maybe as a table?
07:27 kados s/every for/every/
07:28 paul every should be "every week/month/quarter/day" (periodicity)
07:28 paul looking for the bug...
07:28 kados ahh
07:28 kados also not sure about 1 weeks 12 months
07:29 kados does that mean 53 weeks?
07:29 paul no, it's for testing purposes
07:29 paul should be
07:29 kados or every week for 12 months?
07:29 paul X weeks XOR Y months XOR Z issues
07:29 kados ok
07:30 paul ok "every..." fixed
07:30 kados better
07:30 kados so I'm still not clear on the 1 weeks 12 months
07:31 kados does it mean 53 weeks?
07:31 paul when you create a subscription, you must write how long it lasts.
07:31 paul & it can be entered as X weeks or Y months or Z issues.
07:31 paul for example, you subscribe for 52 weeks.
07:31 paul of 4 issues
07:32 kados so in this example you subscribed to 365 issues for 53 weeks
07:32 kados ?
07:32 paul (in public libraries, it's usually 1 year. But some specific serials for academic/research you need "strange" durations)
07:32 kados (right)
07:32 paul in fact, 1 week + 12 months means nothing in subscriptions.
07:33 paul i think Koha will only take the 1st value entered (1 week in this sample)
07:33 kados hmmm, that might be confusing
07:33 paul you should NOT enter both values.
07:33 paul (in librarian interface)
07:33 paul[…]&subscriptionid=1
07:33 paul (test/test should work)
07:34 paul subscription length :
07:34 paul Saisir 1 des champs suivants :
07:34 paul "enter one of the following"
07:34 kados right
07:35 kados so this is a new feature? (it looks similar to the one you demoed to NPL some months back)
07:35 paul no, not a new feature.
07:35 paul it's the one i've demoed when in Athens
07:35 kados ok
07:36 paul just that i've improved some opac pages.
07:36 paul (with "complete view" for example)
07:36 kados paul: would you like to see 5 million marc records searched in under one second?
07:36 paul & a new systempref.
07:36 paul of course !
07:36 kados
07:36 kados click on "LibLime"
07:36 paul with zebra ?
07:36 kados yep
07:37 paul searching "joshua"
07:37 kados hehe
07:37 paul 1st answer : terrorism !
07:37 paul 1nd answer : the wrong man !!!
07:37 kados hehe
07:37 paul (2nd sorry)
07:37 kados hehe
07:37 paul stupid search tool ;-)
07:37 kados very funny coincidence ;-)
07:37 paul (on phone)
07:50 paul kados, i'm back
07:51 paul kados, a question : when I surf with ff on I often get a page without stylesheet.
07:52 paul this never happend on another server with ff
07:52 paul neither with another browser on
07:52 paul any idea why this happends ?
07:58 kados hmmm
07:58 kados how are you declaring the stylesheet?
07:59 paul what's strange, is that i SOMETIMES loose the stylesheet
07:59 kados <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="homepage.css" />
07:59 kados so does it know where to find the homepage.css if not / is present?
07:59 paul it I reload the page, 2 or 3 or more times, the stylesheet appears again.
07:59 paul ???
08:00 paul stylesheet is
08:00 paul <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/opac-tmpl/css/en/includes/opac.css" />
08:00 paul & it happend with other webservices i have on
08:00 kados hmmm ... which page are you looking at? (I was looking at just plain old
08:01 paul koha or kartouche, or dolibarr, my tool to follow my customers
08:01 kados strange
08:01 kados have you validated the css?
08:01 paul no
08:02 paul but everything worked fine until recently
08:02 paul in every website i host on
08:02 kados strange
08:02 kados maybe a ff bug?
08:02 paul & it seems that it has something to do with the speed I surf
08:03 paul if I click too quickly, i loost the stylesheet.
08:03 paul if i reload after 1mn or more, it's back.
08:03 paul very very strange...
08:04 paul back to ZAP!
08:04 paul zebra is compiled on my computer. i'll try to give it a test this week
08:04 kados great ...  you may have trouble with unimarc
08:05 kados (I don't see a default for unimarc)
08:05 paul if it's used for search, then i think almost all marc_*_table tables will disappear..
08:05 kados but if you send me some unimarc records i can try to find it
08:05 paul because there's something that I also plan to do :
08:05 kados paul: maybe that's not a bad idea?
08:05 kados (it would solve the leader problem ;-))
08:05 paul for instance MARCgetrecord reads all lines in marc_subfield_table
08:06 paul and rebuilds the MARC record.
08:06 paul but we could store the marc record in raw format, in biblio or marc_biblio table.
08:06 kados right ... maybe it's not as good of a marc record? (if no leader, etc)
08:06 kados exactly
08:06 paul the leader problem remaining only in MARC editor.
08:06 paul as well as other problems.
08:07 kados IMO we need a new Z39.50 client with integrated MARC editor
08:07 paul about some unimarc datas, i can send you EMN database (13 000 biblios)
08:07 kados so records can be retrieved, stored temporarily in memory (of the machine cataloger is on), edited, and saved to a file on the server
08:07 paul any idea on z3950 client with integrated MARC editor ?
08:07 kados EMN database would be great
08:08 kados have you seen ITS.MARC?
08:08 paul no
08:08 kados or Bookwhere?
08:08 kados I have a meeting with NPL catalogers on Wed morning
08:08 kados to discuss 'an optimal tool' for cataloging
08:09 kados OCLC also has some nice MARC tools
08:09 kados the basic idea is to avoid all page reloads
08:09 paul my goal is to keep Koha as easy to setup as possible. even for libraries that want 'simple unimarc'
08:09 kados sure ... well here's a thought
08:09 kados _if_ we get rid of marc_*_table
08:10 kados we can have two flavours of Koha
08:10 kados (like now)
08:10 kados one with Zebra and MARC
08:10 kados one with old Koha tables
08:10 kados the one with old Koha tables is easy to setup and use
08:10 kados the one with Zebra and MARC probably means we need support from Paul, LibLime, MJ or Katipo
08:10 kados (unless very techie librarians)
08:11 kados I'm afraid that we'll worry too much about 'difficulty of setup' and sacrifice a better product
08:12 paul maybe it's time to start a poll on mailing lists ?
08:12 kados could be ... I need to send a couple of emails today
08:12 kados but I was waiting to finish another feature
08:13 kados 'opensearch' for Koha
08:13 paul what is opensearch ?
08:13 kados
08:13 kados setup your 'columns' by searching for 'library'
08:13 kados you will find PINES and Nelsonville and LibLime (and a couple of other libraries also)
08:13 kados then you can do a search on all of those databases
08:14 kados and return the results in columns
08:16 paul how does it work ?
08:16 kados it's based on RSS and(so XML)
08:16 kados the Koha client searches via Z39.50
08:17 kados and returns valid RSS for the search
08:36 paul EMN.iso2709 sent to jmf at (1.8MB, gzipped)
09:35 kados morning owen
09:35 owen Hi
09:35 paul hi owen
09:36 paul kados : i'm reading "embedding the zebra" doc
09:36 kados paul: great! ... that's probably a good plan
09:36 paul it should be very easy to query zebra .
09:36 paul from Koha API.
09:36 kados yep
09:37 kados the tricky bit will be auto-updates to index
09:37 paul nope
09:37 kados we'll need to use record ids
09:37 kados (maybe bibids)
09:37 paul yes & we already have biblionumber in 090$a !
09:37 kados ohh ... good point!
09:38 paul ;-)
09:39 kados owen: how does NPL handle outgoing ILL (asside from MORE)?
09:40 kados (acually, how do we handle MORE even?)
09:40 owen I'm not really sure.
09:40 owen ...about non-MORE ILLs, that is.
09:40 kados I'm wondering whether we create a borrower for the institution
09:41 kados koha doesn't really have any built-in ILL features that I know of
09:41 owen For MORE requests, each branch has a MORE-specific account
09:41 kados paul: how do your libraries handle this?
09:41 owen So items are recorded as being checked out to MORE, but the specific institution isn't recorded in Koha.
09:41 kados ILL = Inter Library Loan
09:41 kados right
09:42 kados boy, that seems like a great way to lose track of where items are
09:42 owen Yeah, the disadvantage is that you have to cross-reference the titles on the MORE account to the record of what items are still on loan to you in the MORE system
09:43 kados we need some ILL categories with institutions and ability to record borrower ids even
09:43 kados tha's probably going to be a requirement before NCIP will work
09:44 owen I'm not sure I know what you mean
09:44 paul kados : my libraries uses a borrower category & borrower card & issuing rules specific for ILL
09:44 paul nothing more.
09:44 kados yay ... Fedora Core 4 is released!
09:44 kados paul: I see
09:45 kados owen: well we should be able to add institutions as 'borrowers' and specify borrowers of those institutions as having an item on loan
09:45 kados owen: or reserve, etc.
09:46 paul there is a standard for ILL.
09:46 paul like iso2709
09:46 kados right
09:46 kados but NCIP goes beyond this
09:46 paul but Koha does nothing about it.
09:46 kados right
09:46 paul will be for 4.0 ;-)
09:46 kados hehe
09:46 owen The current MORE mailing label list consists of 376 institutions, just to give you an idea of how many we're talking about.
09:47 kados not too bad
09:47 kados we dont' really need any information on anyone that doesn't have one of our items out
09:47 kados (in fact, we don't need to keep track of anyone really)
09:47 kados (but it might be nice to have a borrower id or something)
11:06 owen hi shaun.  Long time no see.
11:14 shaun hi owen (signed in and went off)
11:16 shaun i've got my proposal into school now, but the other librarians were disappointed with the lack of figures, so I need to get in touch with a professional support agency before we go any further
11:17 kados shaun: professional support agency?
11:18 shaun kados gets excited ;)
11:18 shaun do you have any base in the UK?
11:18 kados shaun: hehe yep
11:18 kados shaun: I could handle a UK account
11:19 kados shaun: but you should talk to MJ first
11:19 shaun yep, I was hoping to talk to him
11:19 shaun would you ssh? I suppose it would cost far too much for you to get over here
11:20 kados yea ... I'd mail the configured server ... and ssh for configuration and updates, etc.
11:20 kados I'd also probably be able to setup a toll-free line for UK if I had one account there
11:20 owen Oooh, would it be shiny and green?
11:21 shaun I think they would feel safer with somebody actually based in the UK, so I will get in touch with MJ/slef first
11:21 kados hehe ... no ... we're not crazy like katipo ;-)
11:21 kados right ... sounds good
11:21 kados let me know if you need a proposal
11:23 shaun I have written up a proposal for everything except the support costings, so that's where you/MJ have to come in
11:24 shaun have you supported schools before?
11:24 kados nope ... just public libraries
11:25 kados but we're negociating contracts with like 4 schools at the moment (not sure if they will actually sign or not ... )
11:25 shaun MJ said that he would be cautious over contracts with schools
11:25 kados so when you say you've written up a proposal for everything except the support costings -- what all does that entail? I wasn't aware of anything _but_ support costings ;-)
11:28 shaun everything technical, a thorough explanation of the free software model, "who are they and why should we trust them?", what to expect from 2.4, how the thing works
11:28 kados ahh ... so mainly an 'apology' for Koha and open source ... not really a proposal to do work for them
11:28 kados (LibLime's proposals include several sections on this ;-))
11:28 shaun that's the main part of it, yeh
11:29 kados shaun: would you consider publishing this report on
11:31 shaun it's *very* specific to the school, as it compares the old library system and the new proprietary thing they were evaluating as well
11:32 shaun and it's also very much an introduction to the true concept of open source

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary