Time  Nick      Message
11:32 shaun     and it's also very much an introduction to the true concept of open source
11:31 shaun     it's *very* specific to the school, as it compares the old library system and the new proprietary thing they were evaluating as well
11:29 kados     shaun: would you consider publishing this report on kohadocs.org?
11:28 shaun     that's the main part of it, yeh
11:28 kados     (LibLime's proposals include several sections on this ;-))
11:28 kados     ahh ... so mainly an 'apology' for Koha and open source ... not really a proposal to do work for them
11:28 shaun     everything technical, a thorough explanation of the free software model, "who are they and why should we trust them?", what to expect from 2.4, how the thing works
11:25 kados     so when you say you've written up a proposal for everything except the support costings -- what all does that entail? I wasn't aware of anything _but_ support costings ;-)
11:25 shaun     MJ said that he would be cautious over contracts with schools
11:25 kados     but we're negociating contracts with like 4 schools at the moment (not sure if they will actually sign or not ... )
11:24 kados     nope ... just public libraries
11:24 shaun     have you supported schools before?
11:23 shaun     I have written up a proposal for everything except the support costings, so that's where you/MJ have to come in
11:21 kados     let me know if you need a proposal
11:21 kados     right ... sounds good
11:21 kados     hehe ... no ... we're not crazy like katipo ;-)
11:21 shaun     I think they would feel safer with somebody actually based in the UK, so I will get in touch with MJ/slef first
11:20 owen      Oooh, would it be shiny and green?
11:20 kados     I'd also probably be able to setup a toll-free line for UK if I had one account there
11:20 kados     yea ... I'd mail the configured server ... and ssh for configuration and updates, etc.
11:19 shaun     would you ssh? I suppose it would cost far too much for you to get over here
11:19 shaun     yep, I was hoping to talk to him
11:19 kados     shaun: but you should talk to MJ first
11:18 kados     shaun: I could handle a UK account
11:18 kados     shaun: hehe yep
11:18 shaun     do you have any base in the UK?
11:18 shaun     kados gets excited ;)
11:17 kados     shaun: professional support agency?
11:16 shaun     i've got my proposal into school now, but the other librarians were disappointed with the lack of figures, so I need to get in touch with a professional support agency before we go any further
11:14 shaun     hi owen (signed in and went off)
11:06 owen      hi shaun.  Long time no see.
09:47 kados     (but it might be nice to have a borrower id or something)
09:47 kados     (in fact, we don't need to keep track of anyone really)
09:47 kados     we dont' really need any information on anyone that doesn't have one of our items out
09:47 kados     not too bad
09:46 owen      The current MORE mailing label list consists of 376 institutions, just to give you an idea of how many we're talking about.
09:46 kados     hehe
09:46 paul      will be for 4.0 ;-)
09:46 kados     right
09:46 paul      but Koha does nothing about it.
09:46 kados     but NCIP goes beyond this
09:46 kados     right
09:46 paul      like iso2709
09:46 paul      there is a standard for ILL.
09:45 kados     owen: or reserve, etc.
09:45 kados     owen: well we should be able to add institutions as 'borrowers' and specify borrowers of those institutions as having an item on loan
09:44 kados     paul: I see
09:44 kados     yay ... Fedora Core 4 is released!
09:44 paul      nothing more.
09:44 paul      kados : my libraries uses a borrower category & borrower card & issuing rules specific for ILL
09:44 owen      I'm not sure I know what you mean
09:43 kados     tha's probably going to be a requirement before NCIP will work
09:43 kados     we need some ILL categories with institutions and ability to record borrower ids even
09:42 owen      Yeah, the disadvantage is that you have to cross-reference the titles on the MORE account to the record of what items are still on loan to you in the MORE system
09:42 kados     boy, that seems like a great way to lose track of where items are
09:41 kados     right
09:41 kados     ILL = Inter Library Loan
09:41 owen      So items are recorded as being checked out to MORE, but the specific institution isn't recorded in Koha.
09:41 kados     paul: how do your libraries handle this?
09:41 owen      For MORE requests, each branch has a MORE-specific account
09:41 kados     koha doesn't really have any built-in ILL features that I know of
09:40 kados     I'm wondering whether we create a borrower for the institution
09:40 owen      ...about non-MORE ILLs, that is.
09:40 owen      I'm not really sure.
09:40 kados     (acually, how do we handle MORE even?)
09:39 kados     owen: how does NPL handle outgoing ILL (asside from MORE)?
09:38 paul      ;-)
09:37 kados     ohh ... good point!
09:37 paul      yes & we already have biblionumber in 090$a !
09:37 kados     (maybe bibids)
09:37 kados     we'll need to use record ids
09:37 paul      nope
09:37 kados     the tricky bit will be auto-updates to index
09:36 kados     yep
09:36 paul      from Koha API.
09:36 paul      it should be very easy to query zebra .
09:36 kados     paul: great! ... that's probably a good plan
09:36 paul      kados : i'm reading "embedding the zebra" doc
09:35 paul      hi owen
09:35 owen      Hi
09:35 kados     morning owen
08:36 paul      EMN.iso2709 sent to jmf at liblime.com (1.8MB, gzipped)
08:17 kados     and returns valid RSS for the search
08:16 kados     the Koha client searches via Z39.50
08:16 kados     it's based on RSS and(so XML)
08:16 paul      how does it work ?
08:14 kados     and return the results in columns
08:13 kados     then you can do a search on all of those databases
08:13 kados     you will find PINES and Nelsonville and LibLime (and a couple of other libraries also)
08:13 kados     setup your 'columns' by searching for 'library'
08:13 kados     opensearch.a9.com
08:13 paul      what is opensearch ?
08:13 kados     'opensearch' for Koha
08:12 kados     but I was waiting to finish another feature
08:12 kados     could be ... I need to send a couple of emails today
08:12 paul      maybe it's time to start a poll on mailing lists ?
08:11 kados     I'm afraid that we'll worry too much about 'difficulty of setup' and sacrifice a better product
08:10 kados     (unless very techie librarians)
08:10 kados     the one with Zebra and MARC probably means we need support from Paul, LibLime, MJ or Katipo
08:10 kados     the one with old Koha tables is easy to setup and use
08:10 kados     one with old Koha tables
08:10 kados     one with Zebra and MARC
08:10 kados     (like now)
08:10 kados     we can have two flavours of Koha
08:09 kados     _if_ we get rid of marc_*_table
08:09 kados     sure ... well here's a thought
08:09 paul      my goal is to keep Koha as easy to setup as possible. even for libraries that want 'simple unimarc'
08:09 kados     the basic idea is to avoid all page reloads
08:09 kados     OCLC also has some nice MARC tools
08:08 kados     to discuss 'an optimal tool' for cataloging
08:08 kados     I have a meeting with NPL catalogers on Wed morning
08:08 kados     or Bookwhere?
08:08 paul      no
08:08 kados     have you seen ITS.MARC?
08:07 kados     EMN database would be great
08:07 paul      any idea on z3950 client with integrated MARC editor ?
08:07 kados     so records can be retrieved, stored temporarily in memory (of the machine cataloger is on), edited, and saved to a file on the server
08:07 paul      about some unimarc datas, i can send you EMN database (13 000 biblios)
08:07 kados     IMO we need a new Z39.50 client with integrated MARC editor
08:06 paul      as well as other problems.
08:06 paul      the leader problem remaining only in MARC editor.
08:06 kados     exactly
08:06 kados     right ... maybe it's not as good of a marc record? (if no leader, etc)
08:06 paul      but we could store the marc record in raw format, in biblio or marc_biblio table.
08:06 paul      and rebuilds the MARC record.
08:05 paul      for instance MARCgetrecord reads all lines in marc_subfield_table
08:05 kados     (it would solve the leader problem ;-))
08:05 kados     paul: maybe that's not a bad idea?
08:05 paul      because there's something that I also plan to do :
08:05 kados     but if you send me some unimarc records i can try to find it
08:05 paul      if it's used for search, then i think almost all marc_*_table tables will disappear..
08:05 kados     (I don't see a default for unimarc)
08:04 kados     great ...  you may have trouble with unimarc
08:04 paul      zebra is compiled on my computer. i'll try to give it a test this week
08:04 paul      back to ZAP!
08:03 paul      very very strange...
08:03 paul      if i reload after 1mn or more, it's back.
08:03 paul      if I click too quickly, i loost the stylesheet.
08:02 paul      & it seems that it has something to do with the speed I surf
08:02 kados     maybe a ff bug?
08:02 kados     strange
08:02 paul      in every website i host on bureau.paulpoulain.com
08:02 paul      but everything worked fine until recently
08:01 paul      no
08:01 kados     have you validated the css?
08:01 kados     strange
08:01 paul      koha or kartouche, or dolibarr, my tool to follow my customers
08:00 kados     hmmm ... which page are you looking at? (I was looking at just plain old bureau.paulpoulain.com
08:00 paul      & it happend with other webservices i have on bureau.paulpoulain.com
08:00 paul      		<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/opac-tmpl/css/en/includes/opac.css" />
08:00 paul      stylesheet is
07:59 paul      ???
07:59 paul      it I reload the page, 2 or 3 or more times, the stylesheet appears again.
07:59 kados     so does it know where to find the homepage.css if not / is present?
07:59 kados     <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="homepage.css" />
07:59 paul      what's strange, is that i SOMETIMES loose the stylesheet
07:58 kados     how are you declaring the stylesheet?
07:58 kados     hmmm
07:52 paul      any idea why this happends ?
07:52 paul      neither with another browser on bureau.paulpoulain.com
07:52 paul      this never happend on another server with ff
07:51 paul      kados, a question : when I surf with ff on bureau.paulpoulain.com I often get a page without stylesheet.
07:50 paul      kados, i'm back
07:37 paul      (on phone)
07:37 kados     very funny coincidence ;-)
07:37 paul      stupid search tool ;-)
07:37 kados     hehe
07:37 paul      (2nd sorry)
07:37 kados     hehe
07:37 paul      1nd answer : the wrong man !!!
07:37 paul      1st answer : terrorism !
07:37 kados     hehe
07:37 paul      searching "joshua"
07:36 kados     yep
07:36 paul      with zebra ?
07:36 kados     click on "LibLime"
07:36 kados     http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html
07:36 paul      of course !
07:36 paul      & a new systempref.
07:36 kados     paul: would you like to see 5 million marc records searched in under one second?
07:36 paul      (with "complete view" for example)
07:36 paul      just that i've improved some opac pages.
07:35 kados     ok
07:35 paul      it's the one i've demoed when in Athens
07:35 paul      no, not a new feature.
07:35 kados     so this is a new feature? (it looks similar to the one you demoed to NPL some months back)
07:34 kados     right
07:34 paul      "enter one of the following"
07:34 paul      Saisir 1 des champs suivants :
07:34 paul      subscription length :
07:33 paul      (test/test should work)
07:33 paul      http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9007/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-add.pl?op=mod&subscriptionid=1
07:33 paul      (in librarian interface)
07:33 paul      you should NOT enter both values.
07:33 kados     hmmm, that might be confusing
07:33 paul      i think Koha will only take the 1st value entered (1 week in this sample)
07:32 paul      in fact, 1 week + 12 months means nothing in subscriptions.
07:32 kados     (right)
07:32 paul      (in public libraries, it's usually 1 year. But some specific serials for academic/research you need "strange" durations)
07:32 kados     ?
07:32 kados     so in this example you subscribed to 365 issues for 53 weeks
07:31 paul      of 4 issues
07:31 paul      for example, you subscribe for 52 weeks.
07:31 paul      & it can be entered as X weeks or Y months or Z issues.
07:31 paul      when you create a subscription, you must write how long it lasts.
07:31 kados     does it mean 53 weeks?
07:30 kados     so I'm still not clear on the 1 weeks 12 months
07:30 kados     better
07:30 paul      ok "every..." fixed
07:29 kados     ok
07:29 paul      X weeks XOR Y months XOR Z issues
07:29 kados     or every week for 12 months?
07:29 paul      should be
07:29 paul      no, it's for testing purposes
07:29 kados     does that mean 53 weeks?
07:28 kados     also not sure about 1 weeks 12 months
07:28 kados     ahh
07:28 paul      looking for the bug...
07:28 paul      every should be "every week/month/quarter/day" (periodicity)
07:27 kados     s/every for/every/
07:27 kados     maybe as a table?
07:27 kados     hmmm
07:27 kados     (every ?)
07:27 paul      understandable OK. But is there a better way to write it ?
07:26 kados     it's understandable in English
07:26 kados     (ok)
07:26 kados      18320 à 18344
07:26 paul      (ignore "destinataire CDI", it has been entered in notes by EMN)
07:26 kados     Recieved issues
07:25 kados     Destinataire : CDI
07:25 kados     This subscription is now ended. The last issue was recieved on 01/01/2006
07:25 kados     Last renewal of subscription was 01/01/2005
07:25 kados     t began on 12/12/2004 and is issued every   for  1 weeks 12 months
07:25 paul      that's it
07:25 kados     Subscription information for Test logiciel en pratique
07:24 kados     ahh ;-)
07:24 paul      (as it's french by default iirc)
07:24 paul      (note you may need to change language to english)
07:24 paul      isit better now ?
07:23 kados     yep
07:23 paul      with firefox ?
07:23 kados     that's what it looks like
07:23 kados      18320,N°18321,N°18322,N°18323
07:23 paul      why ?
07:22 kados     I can't read that page
07:22 paul      no pb, i'm staying here for some hours ;-)
07:22 kados     back now
07:22 kados     paul: sorry ... writing an email
07:07 paul      thanks for your opinion.
07:07 paul      (note that dates values are stupid, they are just for sample)
07:06 paul      the 2nd date (01/01/2005) is the date where the subscript has been renewed for the last time.
07:06 paul      the 1st date (12/12/2004) is the date where the subscription began, for the 1st time
07:06 paul      is the text correct & easy to understand in english. I'm afraid it can be improved.
07:05 paul      http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9006/cgi-bin/koha/opac-serial-issues.pl?biblionumber=9798&selectview=small
07:05 paul      read here pls :
07:05 paul      beeping kados ... if you have a minut could you help me for an english template.
06:56 paul      the circle means reader X gives it to reader X+1 on the list
06:55 paul      the star means the doc goes back to the librarian after each reading.
06:55 paul      s/start/star/
06:55 paul      there are 2 kindw of "listes de circulation". start & circle.
06:55 paul      it's saying how we should distribute the item once he arrives (=who should read it)
06:54 paul      * what we call in french "listes de circulation" (don't know the word in english)
06:54 paul      + writing a plugin to fill it & do some automatic changes where needed after storing (like date...)
06:54 paul      should be easy, with a simple trick : i'll store the leader in a "000" MARC field (& change 000 to leader in Biblio.pm)
06:53 paul      * managing the leader.
06:53 paul      you can include me for at least 2 features :
06:53 paul      what's new about your 2.4 features/roadmap ?
06:52 paul_away hi joshua/kados
06:29 kados     hi all
01:57 hdl       hi
19:10 gavin     kados: any luck with that marc data?
19:10 rach      hi
19:10 gavin     hi all
19:10 gavin