IRC log for #koha, 2004-09-17

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:52 kados hey owen
13:06 kados if not can you give me the exact error and I'll try to track it down ...
15:02 tim I looked into that.  It's cool blog software.
15:04 kados yea I really like it
15:04 kados actually it's not blosxom that's screwing things up it's actually one of the plugins
15:04 kados called blox
15:04 kados it basically takes a plain text file and puts html wrappers around it
15:05 kados so I don't need to specify any wrappers for br and p
15:05 kados but it's messing things up at the moment ...
15:08 owen re-subscribing to your feed just now looked like it worked--the latest stuff is showing up in Bloglines
15:10 kados cool
15:10 kados I can't figure out what the problem is with these <p> ... or does xhtml use <p /> ?
15:11 owen <p> has to be closed with </p>  It's a wrapper.
15:11 owen But it looks like that's working correctly, judging from the source
15:12 kados yea ... what do you make of the xhtml errors?
15:13 kados Line 355, column 2: document type does not allow element "p" here; missing one of "object", "applet", "map", "iframe", "button", "ins", "del" start-tag
15:14 kados <p>
15:14 owen What's the <p> nested inside of?  (Can't look, helping a patron)
15:15 kados <tr>
15:15 kados                        <td valign="top">
15:18 owen I see the problem: At line 356 (according the the validator output), you open a paragraph tag, and then open another one at line 359.  You can't nest them.
15:18 kados hmmm
15:19 tim Is there a 2.0.1 stable release yet?
15:19 kados must be a blox bug
15:19 kados should be
15:19 owen Something in the template, maybe?
15:19 kados you can download it from sourceforge
15:20 kados but it's not open cause mj hasn't released the repo (that I know of)
15:20 kados well those <p>s are generated on the fly by a blosxom plugin
15:20 kados I'll just change them to <br /><br /> hehe
15:23 owen Instead, wrap those titles in a div, and style the div to match what you want.  So maybe div.title { font-weight : bold; margin-bottom : 10px; } . something like that.
15:23 owen Then you can leave out the <br /> and the <b></b> and the initial <p>
15:25 kados blox handles all the tags for the actual blog
15:27 kados ok it's almost valid ... one problem left
15:28 kados Line 370, column 49: element "STDIN" undefined
15:28 kados # ipcs -s | grep apache | perl -e 'while (<STDIN>) {<br />
15:28 kados is there some tag I can use to say 'ignore this next bit'
15:29 kados I'd like to preserve the command for future generations :-)
15:32 owen You have to use escaped entities for < and >:  &lt; and &gt;
15:46 kados yay! validated now ... thanks owen
15:47 owen Now if only I could finish that darn web standards speech...
15:47 kados hehe
15:48 kados well you can always pick on some of the state-wide sites OPLIN/OVAL/State library
15:48 owen That'd be fun!
15:51 chris ata marie
15:55 owen hi chris
15:55 chris heya
15:57 kados morning chris
16:05 kados we'd need to hire some contractors to maintain the interstates, etc...
16:05 chris u do?
16:05 kados hehe
16:05 kados our political discussion spilled over into #koha
16:06 kados we're discussing abolishing the nation state
16:06 kados but voting out bush for starters
16:06 kados there's a rally tonight in athens featuring Edwards
16:07 chris ahh right
16:08 chris edwards was going for the democrat nomination eh?
16:08 kados well actually it's Kerry/Edwards ... he's the fall guy
16:09 kados so hopefully he'll be vice-prez
16:09 chris ohh right
16:09 kados but I'm doubtful we'll beat bush
16:09 ToyKeeper Hopefully *someone* will get rid of bush...
16:09 kados hehe
16:09 chris seen this ?
16:10 chris pretty much the rest of the world hopes you do :-)
16:10 ToyKeeper I doubt that kerry is anywhere close to ideal, but it would be hard to be as bad.
16:10 kados well it's hard to be optimistic when one remembers that bush actually lost last time
16:10 ToyKeeper ... yeah.
16:10 ToyKeeper And that his friends are the ones who make the voting machines.  :(
16:10 chris New Zealand  134  1477  8 %  91 %
16:11 owen Not very scientific, though, is it? :)
16:11 chris no .. not in ths slightest
16:11 owen I see Bush is doing very well in Liechtenstein
16:11 chris heh
16:12 owen Well, Kerry gets another vote from me on behalf of the Czech Republic!
16:14 owen Are there really 19 bored websurfers in Vatican City who are voting on this thing? :)
16:14 chris somehow i doubt it :-)
16:14 ToyKeeper The voting system in the US really needs to be fixed.
16:15 chris dont get as confusing as nz toykeeper
16:15 ToyKeeper If there were a multiple-vote system in place, I suspect the 3rd-party candidates would suddenly start winning.
16:15 chris for the general elections (ie parliament) we use MMP
16:15 owen yeah, fixed like a broken clock, rather than fixed like a Vegas slot machine.
16:15 chris then for the local govt elections, there are about 4 systems in use
16:15 ToyKeeper I don't even care which multiple-vote system is used...  I prefer condorcet, but approval is good too, as are others.
16:16 chris for the wellington city council, its STV, and the wellington regional council its FPP
16:17 chris id like if they picked a system .. and stuck with it :-) MMP i like
16:17 ToyKeeper Er, rather, I like the concorde system.  :)
16:17 ToyKeeper
16:17 ToyKeeper It's pretty simple from the voter's point of view, but has good properties.
16:18 ToyKeeper You just rank all the candidates in order, and may place more than one at the same rank if you have no preference between them.
16:18 chris ahh thats STV (well what they call it here)
16:19 chris thats how we vote for our mayor and councillors
16:19 chris MMP = mixed member proportional .. for the general elections
16:19 chris u get 2 votes
16:19 chris 1 for ur local representative, and 1 for a party
16:20 chris thats how the greens got 5 seats, because they got 6% of the total vote .. but didnt actually win in any electorate
16:21 chris seems to work quite well, makes for coalition governments .. which doesnt allow any one agenda to run roughshod over the others
16:22 ToyKeeper Yeah, that sounds like a good thing...  it would hopefully avoid things like the past 4 years of US gov't.
16:23 ToyKeeper I feel like I'm living in late 1930's germany.
16:28 chris well, one good thing, the nz$ is much stronger against the us$ now than it was 4 years ago, makes our wedding cheaper ... (looking for a silver lining :-))
16:29 ToyKeeper I've been wanting to move to NZ for several years now...
16:29 chris shortage of IT workers they reckon
16:29 chris over here
16:30 chris[…]ubsection=comment
16:30 ToyKeeper That's not why I'm interested, though.  :)  It just seems like a much nicer place to live.
16:30 chris yep, just thinking it would be easyish to get a job :)
16:31 owen I wonder if that includes web designers
16:31 owen Someone told me it was really tough to get a visa
16:31 chris depends
16:32 chris on how nice ur employer is
16:32 ToyKeeper I heard it was easier for IT people and doctors to get visas...  but otherwise pretty difficult.
16:32 chris and depends on which country ur coming from too
16:32 chris laurel has permanent residence now
16:33 owen Can she vote by absentee ballot here? :)
16:33 chris getting her work visa was a bit tricky, but thats cos ur not supposed to get it when ur already in nz
16:33 chris but once she got that, residence was pretty easy
16:33 chris yep owen, she can vote here, and in the us elections
16:34 ToyKeeper I'm hoping to save up enough to be able to sell my house and move in the next year or two.
16:35 owen Depending on how much one owes on one's house, a sale might not bring in much money!
16:36 chris laurels employers wrote a nice letter say how she is perfect for the job, they couldnt find anyone else .. and how they wanted someone who had studied overseas ... which if you have the immmigration dept is pretty happy
16:36 owen That's cool.
16:37 chris so thats the trick, a nice employer who is willing to help out with the visa
16:37 ToyKeeper Oh, heh.  I need to get enough money to fix up some things before selling it.  Not much, but it's been difficult to get any income at all around here.
16:38 owen Where are you located, ToyKeeper?
16:39 ToyKeeper Right in the middle of the US...  Colorado.
16:39 chris ohh
16:39 chris near grand junction?
16:39 ToyKeeper A few hours north of that.
16:39 owen Right in the middle, and...over to the left a bit ;)
16:39 chris both rach and I have been there
16:40 chris at different times
16:40 chris colorado is the same size as nz (if u squish nz up)
16:40 ToyKeeper If I lived about an hour south (Denver), it'd be much easier to find work...  but where I'm at now just isn't big enough to support the amount of open-source geeks living here.
16:41 chris ahh right
16:44 owen chris, it sounds like you've been doing a lot of Koha installs recently.  Will any of that lead to any Koha development work, do you think?
16:45 chris i hope so
16:46 chris rachel and russel are talking with lots of libraries around the place, and we have done lots of installs for people to evaluate .. hopefully it will lead to some live installations and development work
16:47 chris there is a lot of interest in koha at the moment, so we'd like to generate that into some work
16:48 owen I'm looking forward to the IRC meeting.  It's hard to tell these days what's going on on the development front.  Paul seems to be dominating all the new work.
16:48 owen I'm grateful that work is getting done, but I'd prefer to see more than one person doing it!
16:48 chris yep it'll be good to catch up
16:48 chris ahh there are other french developers working on it
16:49 chris but yep its mostly paul .. the argentinians are doing some work for 2.4
16:49 owen Under Paul, though right?
16:49 chris im not sure
16:49 chris hes the release manager
16:50 chris so he will have the say whats in or out of the release
16:50 owen Sure.
16:50 chris i think the kaitiaki role will come up at the meeting
16:50 owen Yes
16:50 chris thats what we are missing i think .. that overall leadership
16:52 ToyKeeper The word "katipo" came up in balderdash last week during game night...
16:52 chris heh? really
16:52 ToyKeeper I was happy I finally knew what one of the words meant.  :)
16:52 kados paul wan't the argentinians to be the 2.4 release managers and he want's to maintaine 2.2 last I heard
16:52 chris yep
16:54 chris more power to him, maintaining the stable release is hard work :)
16:54 ToyKeeper Hard and usually no fun.
16:54 chris yep
16:54 owen I wonder if the whole arch vs. cvs issue should be discussed?
16:54 chris its much more fun breaking stuff in the development branch
16:54 chris i think so owen
16:55 ToyKeeper Does koha use arch?
16:55 chris we are trialing it
16:56 chris for the 2.0.x branch
16:56 chris (current stable)
16:56 ToyKeeper svn is pretty nice too, and has good windows clients.
16:57 chris my thing is .. sourceforge for all its faults .. mostly does what we want
16:57 ToyKeeper I don't have much experience with arch, but it does seem like a big improvement over cvs.
16:58 chris i think itd be a biggish discussion .. so last on the agenda might be good :-) be good to talk about roles etc first
16:58 chris and itd be time for a round of intro again i reckon
16:59 chris its been a long time since we have had a meeting, there are quite a few new developers
16:59 chris :-)
17:01 ToyKeeper Wow.  Politicians there must not be the pox-infested slime buckets that I'm used to around here...  I wouldn't want one anywhere near my kids, if I had any.
17:01 chris heh
17:04 chris thanks for that email to the list joshua
17:06 kados np :)
17:11 chris[…]294,64945,00.html
22:31 kados great article chris
02:06 chris morning paul
02:08 paul good evening chris
02:39 emiliano Hi everybody
02:39 emiliano paul are you here?
02:39 paul yep
02:39 paul hi emiliano
02:40 emiliano I've "finished"
02:40 emiliano a 2.4 roadmap
02:40 emiliano send you the URL by mail?
02:40 emiliano have assigned login pswd to modify contents also
02:40 paul please.
02:40 emiliano ok
02:40 paul do you see the IRC meeting ?
02:40 emiliano yep
02:41 emiliano I was trying to
02:41 emiliano finish it before 20
02:41 paul you must be here
02:41 paul ;-)
02:41 emiliano of course
02:44 emiliano has gone...the email
02:45 emiliano pls tell me if it was received
02:45 paul ok, recieved.
02:45 emiliano quick ;-)
02:45 paul i'll check today
02:45 emiliano ok
02:46 emiliano I'm going to sleep!!!!
02:46 paul good night
02:46 emiliano what time is it in France?
02:47 paul 10AM
02:47 paul ok, the address & login works fine
02:47 paul (altough a little bit slow)
02:54 emiliano ups
02:54 paul your night is ended ?
02:54 paul lol
02:54 emiliano should but...
02:54 emiliano send me an email
02:55 emiliano I have forgotten to add in the last screen that should
02:55 emiliano add some OPAC features
02:57 paul i don't understand what you mean
02:57 emiliano jajajaj, could be
02:57 emiliano where?
03:00 emiliano I have to leave Paul, pls tell me what you think by email
03:01 paul think of what ?
03:01 paul your roadmap ?
03:01 emiliano yes
03:01 paul ok.
03:01 paul good night
03:01 emiliano ok, perhaps could be more generic and so on
03:01 emiliano bye
10:57 paul g' morning emiliano
10:57 paul you had a good night ?
10:57 emiliano jajajaja
10:57 emiliano yes!
10:58 emiliano could you read our proposal Paul?
10:58 paul no, i was out
10:58 emiliano ups
10:58 emiliano don't worry
10:58 paul (a customer had problems with virus...)
10:58 emiliano ooohhh
10:59 paul (i installed a firewall/mail server/web access 7 months ago
10:59 paul telling they MUST install anti-virus on the 40 windows computers.
10:59 paul they didn't
10:59 paul so they were infected...
10:59 emiliano what a headeache
11:00 paul in fact, they tell me they installed MacAfee. But in fact, they just installed a small MacAfee soft that cleans Netsky !
11:00 emiliano jajajaja
11:00 paul ;-)
11:01 emiliano well paul, perhaps we could nt tell Koha 2.4 Roadmap
11:01 emiliano perhaps is better to tell Koha 2.4 proposal for Roadmap
11:01 emiliano dont you think?
11:02 paul mmm... as you want.
11:02 emiliano it'll be discussed next week and now sounds
11:02 paul in fact, there are 2 solutions :
11:02 emiliano as an imposition
11:03 paul either you consider yourself as release manager. In this case, you say "will contain this, because i'll do it", and we add other features from ppl saying "ok, i'll do this myself"
11:03 paul or you consider that we are still dreaming and say "what would be nice in 2.4" ?
11:03 emiliano not!
11:03 emiliano most part of the things are done
11:03 paul not to "dream" ?
11:04 emiliano because of this we include screenshots
11:04 paul ok, but go a little bit further.
11:04 emiliano but we want know
11:04 paul WHEN do you plan to release 2.4 ?
11:04 emiliano ah ok
11:04 paul if it's far enough, then we could add other features.
11:04 emiliano the things that are done if there is interest
11:04 emiliano we could deliver now
11:05 paul don't think just your case. Think community interest.
11:05 paul (intestest => wishes)
11:05 emiliano you're right
11:05 paul delivering a public version means a lot of packaging & testing
11:05 paul that's why it's a "long" process.
11:06 paul for 2.0, there was 7 versions before official 2.0.0 release
11:06 emiliano we could divide in features that are in test/production locally
11:06 paul that's too much. I'll do just 1-2 for 2.2
11:06 paul good idea (to divide)
11:06 emiliano to test if there is interest on its
11:06 paul and remember also that your features must be MARC21 / UNIMARC / other compatible.
11:07 emiliano yes, no problem I think
11:07 paul consider i'll do many tests for france ;-)
11:07 emiliano great!
11:07 paul and i'm sure there are dozens of other ideas that will appear.
11:07 paul i already have some ;-)
11:07 emiliano jajaaja, excelent!
11:07 paul (mmm... no, my customers have some ;-) )
11:08 emiliano perhaps the problem as we shown the features
11:08 paul the release manager role is to put on the right what is a good idea, a possible idea, and has a volunteer
11:08 emiliano is that they give the idea of closed
11:08 paul and on the left things that are for later
11:08 emiliano I agree
11:09 paul for example, i've ideas to integrate a synonym dictionnary in Koha
11:09 paul good idea => yes.
11:09 paul possible idea => not sure
11:09 paul volunteer => not yet
11:09 emiliano yes
11:10 emiliano paul: I'm looking for a title for that "Roadmap"
11:10 emiliano that is not a Roadmap
11:10 paul you're right. not yet.
11:10 emiliano could be features to potentially add
11:10 paul will become a roadmap later.
11:10 paul maybe we could speak of a "brainstorming".
11:11 paul in this case, the best place is the wiki, to get a lot of ideas from a lot of people.
11:11 paul then you compile ideas to a roadmap on your site.
11:11 emiliano but there is a little difference
11:11 emiliano this "ideas" are implemented, we wish to know if
11:12 emiliano must be included in official version or not
11:12 paul i didn't saw anything that could not be included for instance.
11:12 emiliano ok
11:12 paul but maybe some modifs to improve versatility will be done
11:12 emiliano great for us
11:13 paul for example => the "suggestion" module.
11:13 paul it's written, OK.
11:13 paul but some libraries don't want to get suggestions from the borrowers.
11:13 paul so => need a systemparameter to set ON/OFF
11:13 paul and modify the code accordingly
11:13 emiliano but could be configured from Syspar actually
11:13 emiliano yes
11:14 paul yes, but if I do this for MY library, i may ignore this.
11:14 emiliano ok
11:14 paul and it would be bad/poor
11:14 paul that's the release manager role too.
11:14 emiliano ok
11:14 paul to help coders being better
11:15 emiliano if you have a bit of time could you tell me by mail
11:15 emiliano what do you see
11:15 emiliano for making more generic
11:15 paul ok, unless you have something to add, i'll leave to be with my family.
11:15 emiliano ups
11:15 emiliano the ideas
11:15 paul ok, i'll do. And maybe i'll modify the CVS myself ;-)
11:15 paul that's the beauty of free software
11:15 emiliano great
11:16 paul bye
11:16 emiliano regards

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