IRC log for #koha, 2022-05-20

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 dcook I imagine one of these days Microsoft will own Linux too lol
00:00 dcook They already own Github
00:00 tuxayo How do you "own" Linux? It would be like to own Koha.
00:00 dcook Canonical also collaborates with Microsoft to make WSL, so one could argue that they're collaborators and should be avoided :p
00:01 dcook I imagine Linux is trademarked by Linus
00:01 dcook Or maybe they could buy the Linux Foundation..
00:01 tuxayo Whatever, the trademark isn't important.
00:01 tuxayo And Linux Foundation isn't.
00:01 tuxayo Really it would be like if one would own Koha
00:02 dcook When did you join the Koha community? hehe
00:02 dcook You may have missed a lot of the legal angst that was around here back in the day..
00:03 dcook Although you could argue the Koha community won out in the end...
00:03 tuxayo Liblime could buy ByWater, PTFS-E, BibLibre, Catalyst NZ, inLibro, Theke and then we could start talking about owning Koha (in terms of actual control on the project)
00:03 tuxayo But it's impractical, even on the scale of Koha. So no way for Linux.
00:04 dcook Ohh.. that's actually an interesting point
00:04 dcook Microsoft could buy Canonical...
00:04 dcook And then they'd own the most popular Linux distribution in the world..
00:04 tuxayo Canonical isn't big on the kernel.
00:04 dcook Canonical doesn't make money so that could actually happen one day
00:04 tuxayo Indeed, I guess that's why they worked with MS on WLS
00:04 tuxayo *WSL
00:04 dcook I suppose IBM buying Red Hat didn't make much of a difference and I think they actually work on the kernel too
00:05 dcook Yeah, I wonder about Canonical's future sometimes..
00:05 tuxayo even if it's shooting in the foot of the linux ecosystem i think to help make wsl
00:05 dcook One reason I like to stay familiar with all the things heh
00:05 dcook I don't know. I think Linux is still the king of servers and that won't change any time soon I think
00:05 tuxayo > When did you join the Koha community
00:05 tuxayo end of 2017
00:05 dcook Yeah, I looked you up on the Koha stats right after I said that hehe
00:05 dcook 2017-10-25?
00:05 wahanui 1982
00:05 dcook lol
00:05 dcook I love bots..
00:05 tuxayo wut
00:06 dcook >
00:06 dcook ?*
00:06 dcook Actually, I think we just recently shutdown our last Windows server the other day. It was a great feeling.
00:06 * dcook does not like Windows servers
00:07 tuxayo wut => what => how is wahanui knowing a so specific date you seem to has written randomly
00:07 tuxayo > I think Linux is still the king of servers and that won't change any time soon I think
00:07 tuxayo Still, even one librarian or dev that run ktd on Windows is a less free user that one that uses a dual boot or a VM
00:07 dcook Who knows what logic is in that silicon brain..
00:07 * dcook ponders
00:08 dcook Yeah I suppose so
00:08 dcook Freedom is a big concept though..
00:08 tuxayo So thanks to WSL, you owen, paul D. and michal lost an oportunity to move towards a more free use a computing.
00:08 dcook Nah I don't think so
00:09 tuxayo I never cared much about WSL but now I see the result, that's sad.
00:09 dcook The thing is WSL2 is actually just a VM anyway
00:09 dcook So it's actually the same as using Virtualbox at the end of the day
00:09 dcook I suppose you coudl argue it's more hidden away
00:09 dcook Except that I sometimes shell into that VM to check things out as a power user :p
00:09 dcook I think you'll find WSL brings more people to using Linux
00:09 tuxayo Yes but you don't really use Linux from a UI perspective and make a step away from Windows compare to a VM or dual boot.
00:09 dcook The alternative being that they'd use Linux less
00:10 dcook By UI do you mean GUI?
00:10 tuxayo yeah, the UI of the Linux distro they install
00:10 dcook With a VM, I'd still just shell in
00:10 dcook When I use Linux VMs, I usually go headless
00:10 dcook It's pointless to have a GUI in a work VM
00:10 dcook At home, I use Linux for my desktop and I use the GUI there
00:11 dcook But for work.. I don't see a need
00:11 dcook CLI or nothing hehe
00:11 dcook Really though I use Windows at work because it's the top-down mandate
00:11 dcook It's easier than ever to have a Linux desktop for work
00:11 dcook Although that's based off probably using Office 365 online
00:12 tuxayo > I think you'll find WSL brings more people to using Linux
00:12 tuxayo People using the Linux kernel has no policial value in going again non-libre OS quasi monopoly I think. But I someone discover installing and running a linux distro in a VM that is valuable. Now they know a plan B, and recue boat.
00:12 oleonard What did I do?
00:12 dcook LibreOffice is great but not quite good enough for cross-office documents
00:12 dcook oleonard: I'm not sure
00:12 dcook I think tuxayo may have drank the kool-aid though
00:12 tuxayo oleonard: oops, you had a keyword alert on Owen? ^^"
00:12 * dcook is teasing btw
00:13 dcook You can also download pre-made VMs without installing Linux from scratch
00:13 dcook Vagrant makes that easy too
00:13 tuxayo > LibreOffice is great but not quite good enough for cross-office documents
00:13 tuxayo More like OOXML isn't a good format for cross-office documents and MS Office isn't good at making good ODF document. Let's focus on the root causes here.
00:14 dcook I figure different strokes for different folks
00:14 tuxayo Indeed, like with the devbox
00:14 dcook Ok. I'm having fun with this conversation, but I do need to go get some work done.
00:14 dcook Although now that oleonard is briefly here...
00:15 oleonard Only to defend my honor against any and all attacks ;)
00:15 dcook hahah
00:15 dcook Regarding bug 30289 would it be more helpful if I polished it up more?
00:15 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30289 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dcook, In Discussion , Use Template::Toolkit WRAPPER to reduce template boilerplate
00:15 tuxayo above bug ++
00:15 dcook There's a number of things I know I need to fix so maybe I should do that before soliciting your opinion on it?
00:16 oleonard dcook: I haven't had time to really look at it because I've been trying to get stuff fixed for the release
00:16 dcook And maybe I could prepare some more specific questions
00:16 dcook Speaking of...
00:16 dcook How did you go with that email "Seeking signoffs for the upcoming release"?
00:16 dcook I admit I meant to look at it sooner but it's been extra busy..
00:17 dcook As evidenced about me having philosophic discussions instead of coding :p
00:17 dcook evidenced by me*
00:17 dcook I'm trying to get a number of things done but I could probably handle 1 or 2 signoffs?
00:18 tuxayo oleonard: «What did I do?» IIUC you and some others use ktd on Windows so I'm regretting that WSL exists because that allows that. It's libre software that MS used and integrated on Windows and in the end some people don't have a dual boot or VM Linux install thanks to WSL.
00:18 tuxayo So from the policial view of software freedom and fair digital life, it's a loss.
00:18 dcook Looks like bug 30673 might be the only one from that list still needing a sign off?
00:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30673 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Improve is_valid_date function for validating date strings
00:20 oleonard I don't know if it's too late, but I welcome your eyes on it dcook if you had time
00:20 tuxayo > As evidenced about me having philosophic discussions instead of coding :p
00:20 tuxayo IRL people sometimes go to the pub with work colleagues and have philosophic discussions. We are just doing that via IRC ^o^
00:22 tuxayo dcook: OMG is so dark the origin of the story 😱 :
00:22 dcook tuxayo: Oh btw I don't use WSL with ktd ;)
00:22 dcook git bash and Docker Desktop. No WSL.
00:23 dcook Docker Desktop uses a Hyper-V virtual machine that runs a Linux guest
00:23 dcook tuxayo: Yeah sometimes I'm sad that I work in such a small office... no good after work pub talk
00:23 tuxayo dcook: ah yes, the OG Docker :P
00:23 oleonard And I've been using a Mac almost exclusively for the last couple years, so you'll have to expand your condemnation of closed source
00:24 tuxayo dcook: same as I work from home. Though this week i'm at a convention meeting other people gravitating around libre software, it's great ^^
00:26 dcook I think Tomas and Kyle use Macs too
00:27 dcook Yeah, I think libre software is great, but I'm wary of any dogma
00:27 * dcook is a shades of grey kind of guy
00:27 * dcook looks outside at the very grey clouds and mist
00:27 dcook oleonard: And cool. I'm happy to take a look at it
00:28 dcook Or something else if there's somethign more high priority for you
00:28 tuxayo oleonard: my bad it's not windows. Then it's not as frustrating. The thing with WSL and Docker Desktop with Hyper-V is that it use under the hood a Linux. So libre software is used so people can stay on Windows, that the thing. About MacOS it's just that it's a Unix and docker work well enough on it right? Wait now I recall it's also a VM so actually it's the same issue :P
00:28 dcook Docker Desktop on MAC still uses a Linux VM ;)
00:28 dcook Docker only works on Linux
00:29 dcook While the Darwin kernel is open source, OS/X is still closed source too
00:29 dcook If I recall correctly, I think Windows NT was originally based off something Unixy too..
00:30 dcook Oops, sorry, I didn't finish reading your message before responding
00:30 dcook Bad habit of mine..
00:30 tuxayo > Yeah, I think libre software is great, but I'm wary of any dogma
00:30 tuxayo My dogma is being against oppression/abuse/domination. And when looking a the digital life one of the major things is libre vs proprietary software.
00:31 tuxayo Libre software without that abstraction of why it's important would be missing a lot of things.
00:31 oleonard libre software is meant to be used. If it gets used by Microsoft in a way that is compliant with license, why not?
00:32 dcook ^
00:32 dcook And while it's admirable to be against oppression/abuse/domination, that can be a deep rabbit hole
00:32 dcook Arguably we shouldn't use computers at all since their manufacture is very problematic
00:32 dcook And probably the electricity too
00:32 dcook Not saying that we shouldn't advocate for better of course
00:33 dcook But things are complicated
00:33 * oleonard disappears again
00:33 dcook Noooo
00:33 dcook later oleonard :)
00:34 tuxayo o/
00:34 dcook It's almost been 4 years since I had beers with oleonard in person :(
00:35 davidnind left #koha
00:35 tuxayo > libre software is meant to be used. If it gets used by Microsoft in a way that is compliant with license, why not?
00:35 tuxayo That why when looking at oppression/abuse/domination we also look at the actor and their track record. And we don't even need here: it's compliant yes but the result isn't libre. So in the end the freedom was for microsoft to use libre software. That why copyleft is important. Permissive license is the freedom to take the freedom of others.
00:36 tuxayo > And while it's admirable to be against oppression/abuse/domination, that can be a deep rabbit hole
00:36 tuxayo It's "just" about what is the kind of world we want. In this case the digital world. So license compliant is fine but when looks at the end result it shouldn't be desirable.
00:44 tuxayo > Arguably we shouldn't use computers at all since their manufacture is very problematic
00:44 tuxayo > And probably the electricity too
00:44 tuxayo It's not all or nothing, this is getting fallacious.
00:45 tuxayo Though that's an important topic also. It can be inferred from the question about the kind of world we want. Wanting "too much digital life" now mean not being able to have digital stuff (as much as now or having at all) in the next decades and century. Fossil energy and material are fossil.
00:45 tuxayo Circular economy is an illusion. So and huge quantity of critical stuff has fintes quantities. Technology won't magically allow to turn any rocks into computers with much less energy available for industry as now and for bilions of humans. There is so much stuff that implicitly or explicitly believes in that. That's self destructing dogma IMHO.
01:08 dcook Well, in Koha related news, here's a cool way to seemingly gracefully restart an Starman instance
01:09 dcook kill -SIGHUP $(cat /var/run/koha/<instance name>/
01:11 michal it is done
01:11 michal the virtual box worked
01:11 michal thanks yall
01:14 dcook michal: That's great
01:14 dcook And oh I'm really pleased with that SIGHUP. It works so well...
01:26 dcook bug 21366
01:26 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=21366 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , add plack reload
02:17 fridolin joined #koha
02:47 michal joined #koha
05:12 reiveune joined #koha
05:12 reiveune hello
05:46 m23 joined #koha
06:06 cait joined #koha
06:09 cait1 joined #koha
06:09 cait1 good morning #koha!
06:24 m23 joined #koha
06:47 alex_ joined #koha
07:00 dcook Annnd it's 5:00pm :D
07:00 dcook allo cait1 :)
07:00 * dcook points to bug 21366 for any interested parties
07:00 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=21366 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , add plack reload
07:01 dcook Joubu: responded to your message btw
07:01 dcook Still probably around for a min or two but leaving soon
07:20 dcook night all
07:24 magnuse__ have fun!
07:25 * cait1 waves
07:26 cait1 Joubu: around?
07:32 Joubu maybe
07:32 Joubu ;)
07:41 cait1 oh :) solved my first issue, wirking on bug 30788
07:41 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30788 minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Argument "" isn't numeric in multiplication (*) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/
07:50 marcelr joined #koha
07:50 marcelr hi #koha
07:51 marcelr ashimema around?
07:51 marcelr apparently not
07:52 marcelr can anyone give me a fast pointer to what $c->validation->output should give in the API ?
07:54 marcelr i got  a bit lost in json validator openapi stuff
08:02 ashimema The passed in params hashref marcelr
08:02 ashimema As in the hash of the JSON body passed in the request
08:03 marcelr i was looking at extract_params
08:03 marcelr $c->req->params->to_hash is compared with $c->validation->output
08:03 marcelr whats the difference then?
08:04 ashimema I must admit, I still get a little confused at times.. we've transitioned openapi module versions a few times and the 'recommended' way of accessing this stuff has changed between versions.. but remained available for backwards compat..
08:04 ashimema I think validation is an older way of accessing the same
08:04 marcelr where is this output located ?
08:05 ashimema The one thing I'm not 100% on is coercion .
08:06 ashimema I think from memory validation will do some coercion of types
08:06 ashimema Hmm.. not sure what you mean by where is output located .?
08:06 ashimema You mean the actually method .
08:06 marcelr which module takes care
08:06 ashimema Deep in OpenAPI guts somewhere..
08:06 marcelr :)
08:06 marcelr i got stuck in the swamp
08:07 ashimema Or possibly even Mojolicuos guts.. it moved some time as I believe it got adopted by Mojolicious as a wider thing once it proved itself in the OpenAPI context
08:07 ashimema Yeah.. it's certainly a bit of a swamp
08:08 * ashimema is on the school run and typing on the phone so excuse typos and slowness
08:08 marcelr np
08:08 marcelr this question came up when looking at extract_reserved_params in query plugin
08:10 marcelr it seems suboptimal at first glance
08:28 marcelr ashimema: it is Mojolicious::Validator::Validation
08:29 ashimema aha, cool
08:29 ashimema yeah.. i thought they'd adopted it.. just wasn't sure which version
08:30 paulderscheid[m] tuxayo: Sorry, it wasn't my intention to perpetuate the existence of Windows ^^
08:38 cait1 30788 up for testing :P
08:48 ashimema cait1, your email address looks funky in those commits?
08:48 ashimema bug 30788 that is.
08:48 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30788 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Needs Signoff , Argument "" isn't numeric in multiplication (*) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/
08:49 ashimema actually.. only the patch.. the one in the unit test looks OK
08:49 ashimema I'll make it match the one in the Unit test patch for you.
08:51 cait1 ashimema: will check! and thx for so
08:51 ashimema sorted already cait1
08:52 cait1 ah cool :)
08:52 ashimema went straight for QA as it's a clear fix with no regressions 🙂
08:52 cait1 i think i must have made the first commit from koha-shell
08:52 ashimema yup
08:52 ashimema i've been there.. so easy to do
08:53 cait1 yes, definitely
08:53 cait1 I know how to fix it, but happy you did
08:53 ashimema yeah, I like to keep things moving if it's an easy fix whilst testing/qaing I'll go ahead and do it and notify them 😉
08:54 cait1 same :)
09:09 davidnind joined #koha
09:18 paulderscheid[m] If a patch creates a merge conflict, it has to be set to 'doesn't apply' right?
09:19 cait1 yes
09:19 paulderscheid[m] ok
09:25 ashimema correct.. unless it's an easy fix you''re happy to do 😜
09:26 paulderscheid[m] I'm just looking into it, but set it to 'doesn't apply' anyway
09:35 alex_ joined #koha
10:02 ashimema back.. sorry, lots of meetings this morning
10:02 ashimema how is everyone
10:02 ashimema wow.. only 5 bugs left in the QA queue.. nice one
10:05 m23 joined #koha
10:15 magnuse__ qateam++
10:24 cait joined #koha
11:04 alex_ joined #koha
11:18 ashimema I reckon bug 30813 might make you happy marcelr 😜
11:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30813 normal, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Refactor TransformMarcToKoha to remove TransformMarcToKohaOneField
11:19 ashimema it's a nice bit of cleanup and performance improvement
11:26 tcohen hola #koha
11:32 ashimema found another 'does not deal with indexation correctly' bug for you Joubu 😜
11:32 ashimema BatchCommit
11:33 ashimema morning tcohen
11:58 m23 joined #koha
12:43 jpic joined #koha
12:50 jpic Hi! To use z39.50 to import from the Library of Congress I have to open port 210, but is it UDP/TCP? Incoming or outgoing?
12:53 cait1 possibly outgoing I think, because you make the request
12:53 cait1 but someone else might be better to reply here
12:55 davidnind left #koha
13:02 jpic thanks cait1! So I hope someone else confirms what you say
13:05 Dyrcona joined #koha
13:35 lukeg joined #koha
13:56 tcohen jpic: your Koha instance needs to contact LOC, so it is outbound traffic
14:15 jpic Ok! Thanks!!
14:17 AndrewFH joined #koha
14:26 tcohen np jpic
14:31 koha joined #koha
14:32 nikkom joined #koha
14:44 cait1 left #koha
14:53 theitguy joined #koha
15:00 reiveune bye
15:00 reiveune left #koha
15:05 oleonard joined #koha
15:06 * oleonard waves to oleonard-away
15:14 michal joined #koha
15:17 nikkom Hi everyone. I want to ask a question about labels. I couldnt export individual label as PDF. I can explain my problem as below:  1- I open the list of one batch from this address:  http://MYIP:8080/cgi-bin/koha/[…]edit&element_id=1 2- I click "Export" button near to my selected label and see "Download as PDF" link. The link setted for this address is : http://MYIP:8080/cgi-bin/koha/[…]d=0&template_id=2
15:37 oleonard nikkom: What happens then? Nothing?
15:41 nikkom oleonard: yes. Unfortunatally nothing. It creates an empty pdf file
15:42 nikkom I think the problem accures in this line: my $pdf_file = (@label_ids || @item_numbers ? "label_single_" . scalar(@label_ids || @item_numbers) : "label_batc    h_$batch_id");
15:42 oleonard nikkom: What Koha version are you using?
15:45 nikkom @label_ids || @item_numbers becomes false in version 21.11. But in our old version  19.05
15:45 huginn nikkom: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
15:45 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
15:46 nikkom @label_ids || @item_numbers becomes false in version 21.11. But in our old version  19.05 it is TRUE
15:49 oleonard nikkom: Are you saying you're seeing the problem in version 21.11?
15:51 nikkom Yes problem is in 21.11
16:02 oleonard I will see if I can reproduce the problem nikkom
16:13 oleonard nikkom: Using the sample data in Koha 21.11.05 I am unable to reproduce the problem. The label batch exports correctly
16:14 oleonard nikkom: Rather than a problem with the code per se, I wonder if it could be a data problem somehow?
16:14 oleonard I'm not familiar with the labels code though.
16:16 oleonard nikkom: Do your error logs give any clues?
16:53 nikkom Thanks   oleonard. I'll look therrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr​rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre
18:02 fridolin joined #koha
18:56 davidnind joined #koha
19:16 mlkdgn joined #koha
19:18 mlkdgn Hi every one. I'm new in perl. Could anyone explain me what does "$cgi->multi_param" command do? I would be very glad if anyone could suggest me a tutorial about perl
19:35 tuxayo mlkdgn: hi :)
19:35 tuxayo > what does "$cgi->multi_param" command do?
19:35 tuxayo In which file?
19:35 tuxayo > suggest me a tutorial about perl
19:35 tuxayo
19:35 tuxayo
19:37 m23 joined #koha
19:49 oleonard joined #koha
20:38 domm[m] mlkdgn:[…]e-named-parameter
20:38 domm[m] multi_param gives you all values of a param with the same name (eg ?foo=1&foo=2&foo=3)
20:48 JesseM joined #koha
21:24 tuxayo thanks domm, I learned also something ^^
21:26 JesseM joined #koha
22:35 cait joined #koha
23:51 fridolin joined #koha

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary