Time Nick Message 00:00 dcook I imagine one of these days Microsoft will own Linux too lol 00:00 dcook They already own Github 00:00 tuxayo How do you "own" Linux? It would be like to own Koha. 00:00 dcook Canonical also collaborates with Microsoft to make WSL, so one could argue that they're collaborators and should be avoided :p 00:01 dcook I imagine Linux is trademarked by Linus 00:01 dcook Or maybe they could buy the Linux Foundation.. 00:01 tuxayo Whatever, the trademark isn't important. 00:01 tuxayo And Linux Foundation isn't. 00:01 dcook [off] /me looks at Liblime Koha 00:01 tuxayo Really it would be like if one would own Koha 00:02 dcook When did you join the Koha community? hehe 00:02 dcook You may have missed a lot of the legal angst that was around here back in the day.. 00:03 dcook [off] Also take a peek at who owns koha.org 00:03 dcook Although you could argue the Koha community won out in the end... 00:03 tuxayo Liblime could buy ByWater, PTFS-E, BibLibre, Catalyst NZ, inLibro, Theke and then we could start talking about owning Koha (in terms of actual control on the project) 00:03 tuxayo But it's impractical, even on the scale of Koha. So no way for Linux. 00:04 dcook Ohh.. that's actually an interesting point 00:04 dcook Microsoft could buy Canonical... 00:04 dcook And then they'd own the most popular Linux distribution in the world.. 00:04 tuxayo Canonical isn't big on the kernel. 00:04 dcook Canonical doesn't make money so that could actually happen one day 00:04 tuxayo Indeed, I guess that's why they worked with MS on WLS 00:04 tuxayo *WSL 00:04 dcook I suppose IBM buying Red Hat didn't make much of a difference and I think they actually work on the kernel too 00:05 dcook Yeah, I wonder about Canonical's future sometimes.. 00:05 tuxayo even if it's shooting in the foot of the linux ecosystem i think to help make wsl 00:05 dcook One reason I like to stay familiar with all the things heh 00:05 dcook I don't know. I think Linux is still the king of servers and that won't change any time soon I think 00:05 tuxayo > When did you join the Koha community 00:05 tuxayo end of 2017 00:05 dcook Yeah, I looked you up on the Koha stats right after I said that hehe 00:05 dcook 2017-10-25? 00:05 wahanui 1982 00:05 dcook lol 00:05 dcook I love bots.. 00:05 tuxayo wut 00:06 dcook > 00:06 dcook ?* 00:06 dcook Actually, I think we just recently shutdown our last Windows server the other day. It was a great feeling. 00:06 * dcook does not like Windows servers 00:07 tuxayo wut => what => how is wahanui knowing a so specific date you seem to has written randomly 00:07 tuxayo > I think Linux is still the king of servers and that won't change any time soon I think 00:07 tuxayo Still, even one librarian or dev that run ktd on Windows is a less free user that one that uses a dual boot or a VM 00:07 dcook Who knows what logic is in that silicon brain.. 00:07 * dcook ponders 00:08 dcook Yeah I suppose so 00:08 dcook Freedom is a big concept though.. 00:08 tuxayo So thanks to WSL, you owen, paul D. and michal lost an oportunity to move towards a more free use a computing. 00:08 dcook Nah I don't think so 00:09 tuxayo I never cared much about WSL but now I see the result, that's sad. 00:09 dcook The thing is WSL2 is actually just a VM anyway 00:09 dcook So it's actually the same as using Virtualbox at the end of the day 00:09 dcook I suppose you coudl argue it's more hidden away 00:09 dcook Except that I sometimes shell into that VM to check things out as a power user :p 00:09 dcook I think you'll find WSL brings more people to using Linux 00:09 tuxayo Yes but you don't really use Linux from a UI perspective and make a step away from Windows compare to a VM or dual boot. 00:09 dcook The alternative being that they'd use Linux less 00:10 dcook By UI do you mean GUI? 00:10 tuxayo yeah, the UI of the Linux distro they install 00:10 dcook With a VM, I'd still just shell in 00:10 dcook When I use Linux VMs, I usually go headless 00:10 dcook It's pointless to have a GUI in a work VM 00:10 dcook At home, I use Linux for my desktop and I use the GUI there 00:11 dcook But for work.. I don't see a need 00:11 dcook CLI or nothing hehe 00:11 dcook Really though I use Windows at work because it's the top-down mandate 00:11 dcook It's easier than ever to have a Linux desktop for work 00:11 dcook Although that's based off probably using Office 365 online 00:12 tuxayo > I think you'll find WSL brings more people to using Linux 00:12 tuxayo People using the Linux kernel has no policial value in going again non-libre OS quasi monopoly I think. But I someone discover installing and running a linux distro in a VM that is valuable. Now they know a plan B, and recue boat. 00:12 oleonard What did I do? 00:12 dcook LibreOffice is great but not quite good enough for cross-office documents 00:12 dcook oleonard: I'm not sure 00:12 dcook I think tuxayo may have drank the kool-aid though 00:12 tuxayo oleonard: oops, you had a keyword alert on Owen? ^^" 00:12 * dcook is teasing btw 00:13 dcook You can also download pre-made VMs without installing Linux from scratch 00:13 dcook Vagrant makes that easy too 00:13 tuxayo > LibreOffice is great but not quite good enough for cross-office documents 00:13 tuxayo More like OOXML isn't a good format for cross-office documents and MS Office isn't good at making good ODF document. Let's focus on the root causes here. 00:14 dcook I figure different strokes for different folks 00:14 tuxayo Indeed, like with the devbox 00:14 dcook Ok. I'm having fun with this conversation, but I do need to go get some work done. 00:14 dcook Although now that oleonard is briefly here... 00:15 oleonard Only to defend my honor against any and all attacks ;) 00:15 dcook hahah 00:15 dcook Regarding bug 30289 would it be more helpful if I polished it up more? 00:15 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30289 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dcook, In Discussion , Use Template::Toolkit WRAPPER to reduce template boilerplate 00:15 tuxayo above bug ++ 00:15 dcook There's a number of things I know I need to fix so maybe I should do that before soliciting your opinion on it? 00:16 oleonard dcook: I haven't had time to really look at it because I've been trying to get stuff fixed for the release 00:16 dcook And maybe I could prepare some more specific questions 00:16 dcook Speaking of... 00:16 dcook How did you go with that email "Seeking signoffs for the upcoming release"? 00:16 dcook I admit I meant to look at it sooner but it's been extra busy.. 00:17 dcook As evidenced about me having philosophic discussions instead of coding :p 00:17 dcook evidenced by me* 00:17 dcook I'm trying to get a number of things done but I could probably handle 1 or 2 signoffs? 00:18 tuxayo oleonard: «What did I do?» IIUC you and some others use ktd on Windows so I'm regretting that WSL exists because that allows that. It's libre software that MS used and integrated on Windows and in the end some people don't have a dual boot or VM Linux install thanks to WSL. 00:18 tuxayo So from the policial view of software freedom and fair digital life, it's a loss. 00:18 dcook Looks like bug 30673 might be the only one from that list still needing a sign off? 00:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30673 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Improve is_valid_date function for validating date strings 00:20 oleonard I don't know if it's too late, but I welcome your eyes on it dcook if you had time 00:20 tuxayo > As evidenced about me having philosophic discussions instead of coding :p 00:20 tuxayo IRL people sometimes go to the pub with work colleagues and have philosophic discussions. We are just doing that via IRC ^o^ 00:22 tuxayo dcook: OMG is so dark the origin of the story 😱 : https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/drink_the_Kool-Aid 00:22 dcook tuxayo: Oh btw I don't use WSL with ktd ;) 00:22 dcook git bash and Docker Desktop. No WSL. 00:23 dcook Docker Desktop uses a Hyper-V virtual machine that runs a Linux guest 00:23 dcook tuxayo: Yeah sometimes I'm sad that I work in such a small office... no good after work pub talk 00:23 tuxayo dcook: ah yes, the OG Docker :P 00:23 oleonard And I've been using a Mac almost exclusively for the last couple years, so you'll have to expand your condemnation of closed source 00:24 tuxayo dcook: same as I work from home. Though this week i'm at a convention meeting other people gravitating around libre software, it's great ^^ 00:26 dcook I think Tomas and Kyle use Macs too 00:27 dcook Yeah, I think libre software is great, but I'm wary of any dogma 00:27 * dcook is a shades of grey kind of guy 00:27 * dcook looks outside at the very grey clouds and mist 00:27 dcook oleonard: And cool. I'm happy to take a look at it 00:28 dcook Or something else if there's somethign more high priority for you 00:28 tuxayo oleonard: my bad it's not windows. Then it's not as frustrating. The thing with WSL and Docker Desktop with Hyper-V is that it use under the hood a Linux. So libre software is used so people can stay on Windows, that the thing. About MacOS it's just that it's a Unix and docker work well enough on it right? Wait now I recall it's also a VM so actually it's the same issue :P 00:28 dcook Docker Desktop on MAC still uses a Linux VM ;) 00:28 dcook Docker only works on Linux 00:29 dcook While the Darwin kernel is open source, OS/X is still closed source too 00:29 dcook If I recall correctly, I think Windows NT was originally based off something Unixy too.. 00:30 dcook Oops, sorry, I didn't finish reading your message before responding 00:30 dcook Bad habit of mine.. 00:30 tuxayo > Yeah, I think libre software is great, but I'm wary of any dogma 00:30 tuxayo My dogma is being against oppression/abuse/domination. And when looking a the digital life one of the major things is libre vs proprietary software. 00:31 tuxayo Libre software without that abstraction of why it's important would be missing a lot of things. 00:31 oleonard libre software is meant to be used. If it gets used by Microsoft in a way that is compliant with license, why not? 00:32 dcook ^ 00:32 dcook And while it's admirable to be against oppression/abuse/domination, that can be a deep rabbit hole 00:32 dcook Arguably we shouldn't use computers at all since their manufacture is very problematic 00:32 dcook And probably the electricity too 00:32 dcook Not saying that we shouldn't advocate for better of course 00:33 dcook But things are complicated 00:33 * oleonard disappears again 00:33 dcook Noooo 00:33 dcook later oleonard :) 00:34 tuxayo o/ 00:34 dcook It's almost been 4 years since I had beers with oleonard in person :( 00:35 tuxayo > libre software is meant to be used. If it gets used by Microsoft in a way that is compliant with license, why not? 00:35 tuxayo That why when looking at oppression/abuse/domination we also look at the actor and their track record. And we don't even need here: it's compliant yes but the result isn't libre. So in the end the freedom was for microsoft to use libre software. That why copyleft is important. Permissive license is the freedom to take the freedom of others. 00:36 tuxayo > And while it's admirable to be against oppression/abuse/domination, that can be a deep rabbit hole 00:36 tuxayo It's "just" about what is the kind of world we want. In this case the digital world. So license compliant is fine but when looks at the end result it shouldn't be desirable. 00:44 tuxayo > Arguably we shouldn't use computers at all since their manufacture is very problematic 00:44 tuxayo > And probably the electricity too 00:44 tuxayo It's not all or nothing, this is getting fallacious. 00:45 tuxayo Though that's an important topic also. It can be inferred from the question about the kind of world we want. Wanting "too much digital life" now mean not being able to have digital stuff (as much as now or having at all) in the next decades and century. Fossil energy and material are fossil. 00:45 tuxayo Circular economy is an illusion. So and huge quantity of critical stuff has fintes quantities. Technology won't magically allow to turn any rocks into computers with much less energy available for industry as now and for bilions of humans. There is so much stuff that implicitly or explicitly believes in that. That's self destructing dogma IMHO. 01:08 dcook Well, in Koha related news, here's a cool way to seemingly gracefully restart an Starman instance 01:09 dcook kill -SIGHUP $(cat /var/run/koha/<instance name>/plack.pid) 01:11 michal it is done 01:11 michal the virtual box worked 01:11 michal thanks yall 01:14 dcook michal: That's great 01:14 dcook And oh I'm really pleased with that SIGHUP. It works so well... 01:26 dcook bug 21366 01:26 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21366 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , add plack reload 05:12 reiveune hello 06:09 cait1 good morning #koha! 07:00 dcook Annnd it's 5:00pm :D 07:00 dcook allo cait1 :) 07:00 * dcook points to bug 21366 for any interested parties 07:00 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21366 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , add plack reload 07:01 dcook Joubu: responded to your message btw 07:01 dcook Still probably around for a min or two but leaving soon 07:20 dcook night all 07:24 magnuse__ have fun! 07:25 * cait1 waves 07:26 cait1 Joubu: around? 07:32 Joubu maybe 07:32 Joubu ;) 07:41 cait1 oh :) solved my first issue, wirking on bug 30788 07:41 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30788 minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Argument "" isn't numeric in multiplication (*) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Overdues.pm 07:50 marcelr hi #koha 07:51 marcelr ashimema around? 07:51 marcelr apparently not 07:52 marcelr can anyone give me a fast pointer to what $c->validation->output should give in the API ? 07:54 marcelr i got a bit lost in json validator openapi stuff 08:02 ashimema The passed in params hashref marcelr 08:02 ashimema As in the hash of the JSON body passed in the request 08:03 marcelr i was looking at extract_params 08:03 marcelr $c->req->params->to_hash is compared with $c->validation->output 08:03 marcelr whats the difference then? 08:04 ashimema I must admit, I still get a little confused at times.. we've transitioned openapi module versions a few times and the 'recommended' way of accessing this stuff has changed between versions.. but remained available for backwards compat.. 08:04 ashimema I think validation is an older way of accessing the same 08:04 marcelr where is this output located ? 08:05 ashimema The one thing I'm not 100% on is coercion . 08:06 ashimema I think from memory validation will do some coercion of types 08:06 ashimema Hmm.. not sure what you mean by where is output located .? 08:06 ashimema You mean the actually method . 08:06 marcelr which module takes care 08:06 ashimema Deep in OpenAPI guts somewhere.. 08:06 marcelr :) 08:06 marcelr i got stuck in the swamp 08:07 ashimema Or possibly even Mojolicuos guts.. it moved some time as I believe it got adopted by Mojolicious as a wider thing once it proved itself in the OpenAPI context 08:07 ashimema Yeah.. it's certainly a bit of a swamp 08:08 * ashimema is on the school run and typing on the phone so excuse typos and slowness 08:08 marcelr np 08:08 marcelr this question came up when looking at extract_reserved_params in query plugin 08:10 marcelr it seems suboptimal at first glance 08:28 marcelr ashimema: it is Mojolicious::Validator::Validation 08:29 ashimema aha, cool 08:29 ashimema yeah.. i thought they'd adopted it.. just wasn't sure which version 08:30 paulderscheid[m] tuxayo: Sorry, it wasn't my intention to perpetuate the existence of Windows ^^ 08:38 cait1 30788 up for testing :P 08:48 ashimema cait1, your email address looks funky in those commits? 08:48 ashimema bug 30788 that is. 08:48 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30788 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Needs Signoff , Argument "" isn't numeric in multiplication (*) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Overdues.pm 08:49 ashimema actually.. only the patch.. the one in the unit test looks OK 08:49 ashimema I'll make it match the one in the Unit test patch for you. 08:51 cait1 ashimema: will check! and thx for so 08:51 ashimema sorted already cait1 08:52 cait1 ah cool :) 08:52 ashimema went straight for QA as it's a clear fix with no regressions 🙂 08:52 cait1 i think i must have made the first commit from koha-shell 08:52 ashimema yup 08:52 ashimema i've been there.. so easy to do 08:53 cait1 yes, definitely 08:53 cait1 I know how to fix it, but happy you did 08:53 ashimema yeah, I like to keep things moving if it's an easy fix whilst testing/qaing I'll go ahead and do it and notify them 😉 08:54 cait1 same :) 09:18 paulderscheid[m] If a patch creates a merge conflict, it has to be set to 'doesn't apply' right? 09:19 cait1 yes 09:19 paulderscheid[m] ok 09:25 ashimema correct.. unless it's an easy fix you''re happy to do 😜 09:26 paulderscheid[m] I'm just looking into it, but set it to 'doesn't apply' anyway 10:02 ashimema back.. sorry, lots of meetings this morning 10:02 ashimema how is everyone 10:02 ashimema wow.. only 5 bugs left in the QA queue.. nice one 10:15 magnuse__ qateam++ 11:18 ashimema I reckon bug 30813 might make you happy marcelr 😜 11:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=30813 normal, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Refactor TransformMarcToKoha to remove TransformMarcToKohaOneField 11:19 ashimema it's a nice bit of cleanup and performance improvement 11:26 tcohen hola #koha 11:32 ashimema found another 'does not deal with indexation correctly' bug for you Joubu 😜 11:32 ashimema BatchCommit 11:33 ashimema morning tcohen 12:50 jpic Hi! To use z39.50 to import from the Library of Congress I have to open port 210, but is it UDP/TCP? Incoming or outgoing? 12:53 cait1 possibly outgoing I think, because you make the request 12:53 cait1 but someone else might be better to reply here 13:02 jpic thanks cait1! So I hope someone else confirms what you say 13:56 tcohen jpic: your Koha instance needs to contact LOC, so it is outbound traffic 14:15 jpic Ok! Thanks!! 14:26 tcohen np jpic 15:00 reiveune bye 15:06 * oleonard waves to oleonard-away 15:17 nikkom Hi everyone. I want to ask a question about labels. I couldnt export individual label as PDF. I can explain my problem as below: 1- I open the list of one batch from this address: http://MYIP:8080/cgi-bin/koha/labels/label-edit-batch.pl?op=edit&element_id=1 2- I click "Export" button near to my selected label and see "Download as PDF" link. The link setted for this address is : http://MYIP:8080/cgi-bin/koha/labels/label-create-pdf.pl?batch_id=0&template_id=2 15:37 oleonard nikkom: What happens then? Nothing? 15:41 nikkom oleonard: yes. Unfortunatally nothing. It creates an empty pdf file 15:42 nikkom I think the problem accures in this line: my $pdf_file = (@label_ids || @item_numbers ? "label_single_" . scalar(@label_ids || @item_numbers) : "label_batc h_$batch_id"); 15:42 oleonard nikkom: What Koha version are you using? 15:45 nikkom @label_ids || @item_numbers becomes false in version 21.11. But in our old version 19.05 15:45 huginn nikkom: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready 15:45 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn. 15:46 nikkom @label_ids || @item_numbers becomes false in version 21.11. But in our old version 19.05 it is TRUE 15:49 oleonard nikkom: Are you saying you're seeing the problem in version 21.11? 15:51 nikkom Yes problem is in 21.11 16:02 oleonard I will see if I can reproduce the problem nikkom 16:13 oleonard nikkom: Using the sample data in Koha 21.11.05 I am unable to reproduce the problem. The label batch exports correctly 16:14 oleonard nikkom: Rather than a problem with the code per se, I wonder if it could be a data problem somehow? 16:14 oleonard I'm not familiar with the labels code though. 16:16 oleonard nikkom: Do your error logs give any clues? 16:53 nikkom Thanks oleonard. I'll look therrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre 19:18 mlkdgn Hi every one. I'm new in perl. Could anyone explain me what does "$cgi->multi_param" command do? I would be very glad if anyone could suggest me a tutorial about perl 19:35 tuxayo mlkdgn: hi :) 19:35 tuxayo > what does "$cgi->multi_param" command do? 19:35 tuxayo In which file? 19:35 tuxayo > suggest me a tutorial about perl 19:35 tuxayo https://qntm.org/perl_en 19:35 tuxayo https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl/ 20:38 domm[m] mlkdgn: https://metacpan.org/pod/CGI#Fetching-the-value-or-values-of-a-single-named-parameter 20:38 domm[m] multi_param gives you all values of a param with the same name (eg ?foo=1&foo=2&foo=3) 21:24 tuxayo thanks domm, I learned also something ^^