IRC log for #koha, 2020-07-01

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:01 dcook Ok... JSON::Validator::OpenAPI::Mojolicious uses "" if a "schema" argument isn't provided to load_and_validate_schema()
00:01 dcook Errr JSON::Validator::OpenAPI rather, which is the parent of  JSON::Validator::OpenAPI::Mojolicious
00:01 dcook JSON::Validator defaults to right... makes sense
00:02 dcook "/usr/share/perl5/JSON/Validator/cache/36d1bd12eeed51e86c8695bd8876a9df" shoudl provide us a copy of ""
00:02 dcook So we could just put that file into Koha, and then have load_and_validate_schema() read it from Koha
00:03 dcook Well I'd need to work out the logic
00:03 dcook Alternatively we could put it on but I still don't like that external dependency, especially as there are Koha instances which are not Internet connected...
00:04 oleonard I'm just jumping back in after taking a break... Do we have a workaround, even if it's temporary?
00:04 dcook The schema argument goes to Mojo::JSON::Pointer, which I bet does some auto magic..
00:05 dcook oleonard: Yep
00:05 tuxayo «dcook just thinks it's crazy to be forced to load data from a third-party URL»
00:05 tuxayo Indeed
00:05 dcook oleonard: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…].cgi?id=23653#c11
00:05 huginn Bug 23653: major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, In Discussion , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
00:05 dcook That works for the time being
00:05 dcook Comment 11 specifically
00:06 dcook mtj++
00:06 hayley thoughts on moving it to critical/blocker?
00:06 dcook hayley: Oh yeah I would
00:06 tuxayo +1
00:06 dcook I think I aged 10 years in an hour this morning :p
00:06 hayley done!
00:06 hayley yes very stressful!
00:07 dcook I'm hoping within the next 60 minutes to have a more permanent solution
00:07 dcook By embedding the schema.json in Koha
00:07 tuxayo Yes!
00:08 oleonard Thanks y'all, that workaround works great
00:09 tuxayo > Got to love a ticking time bomb
00:09 tuxayo No way, it's real. I just opened more than 100 pages on a demo instance (2 workers, 50 pages for each if my spies are right)
00:09 tuxayo And now it just 504 timeout!!!!
00:09 dcook Right?
00:09 dcook I've almost worked this out..
00:09 tuxayo oleonard: so you got that in production without restarting plack?
00:10 oleonard tuxayo just in my dev machine
00:10 dcook I know I got it in a lot of production boxes today
00:13 dcook Ok I think I've worked out the logic. Now just to do a patch and test it...
00:15 dcook mtj: In your workaround, how did you know to use 3.06?
00:16 dcook In Ubuntu, I'm seeing version 1.08
00:17 mtj hi dcook, 3.06 is the version available for buster and stretch-backports, other than that - there is nothing special about the version
00:17 dcook Hmm interesting
00:17 dcook libjson-validator-perl is 1.08 on 18.04 which is based off buster I think..
00:17 dcook buster/sid that is
00:18 dcook Hmm..
00:18 dcook Well I think we know 3.06 is working right now so I'll look at including that version
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00:19 tuxayo > 18.04 which is based off buster
00:19 tuxayo Indeed
00:19 tuxayo[…]versions-based-on
00:20 dcook[…]86c8695bd8876a9df
00:20 dcook So I'll use that for now
00:22 rangi buster/sid is unstable
00:22 rangi and testing
00:22 dcook Whoa haven't seen rangi here in ages O_O
00:23 rangi so you can't really say that, unless you say sid as of april 2018 :)
00:23 dcook Yeah buster before buster was buster
00:23 dcook heh
00:23 dcook True
00:23 rangi cos sid now is 4.0x something
00:23 rangi for that module
00:23 dcook Yeah, I was being imprecise
00:23 dcook So now quick question for people
00:23 dcook Where to make this file live
00:23 rangi its the problem with the lts releases
00:24 rangi the l is too long :)
00:24 tuxayo dcook: What you have is perfect match to this archive
00:24 tuxayo[…]21/v2/schema.json
00:24 tuxayo So it's good
00:24 dcook I suppose that's an option yeah
00:24 dcook Although it's still an online option
00:25 tuxayo dcook: it's just a check. This page isn't 100% JSON
00:26 tuxayo dcook: «Where to make this file live»
00:26 tuxayo Is it okay with our JS and CSS assets? It ensures it's reachable without server config.
00:27 rangi thats where i would put it
00:27 rangi anywhere in the opac-tmpl path would do tho
00:31 dcook Why woudl you put it in the opac-tmpl path?
00:31 dcook It's a backend asset. Doesn't need to be shown to end users.
00:31 dcook We don't need to load it over HTTP
00:31 dcook JSON::Validator can read it as a local file
00:31 dcook oleonard: On the plus side, this workaround is sort of a permanent workaround
00:32 dcook This "cache" isn't a real cache
00:33 dcook Oh interesting... JSON_VALIDATOR_CACHE_PATH environmental variable..
00:33 dcook Oh right.. yeah I see what you're saying
00:34 dcook I suppose there's no harm in exposing it to end users...
00:34 dcook Although there would still be some server config
00:34 dcook Unless I guess if you can rely on the base url being set..
00:34 dcook Wait...
00:34 dcook Actually that won't work either
00:35 dcook Well...
00:35 dcook I guess it would
00:35 dcook Plack fetches this file at startup
00:35 dcook So it would be fetching it from Apache
00:35 dcook :/
00:35 dcook I don't love that kind of dependency either
00:38 dcook Hmm tuxayo, what made you think to raise the issue at[…]
00:39 tuxayo dcook: If there is a way to have it directly from a file without changing much stuff that would be great
00:39 dcook Using the Debian packages we could automate it fairly easily
00:39 dcook The only issue will be for people not using Debian packages
00:39 dcook But I guess that's the downside of them not using them..
00:39 tuxayo dcook: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…].cgi?id=23653#c13
00:39 dcook Well, we can code it to work for them too if they do a proper upgrade..
00:39 huginn Bug 23653: blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, In Discussion , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
00:40 dcook Yeah but you raised an issue against the website
00:40 tuxayo[…]/debian/copyright
00:40 tuxayo Comment: The +dfsg version is created by removing the cache files from the
00:40 tuxayo lib/JSON/Validator directory, where the license is unknown.
00:40 dcook The JSON/Validator/cache isn't made by them
00:40 dcook It's made by...
00:40 dcook Jan Henning Thorsen
00:40 tuxayo It's the cause Debian not shipping it
00:40 tuxayo *cause of
00:41 dcook Right, but isn't part of that
00:41 dcook We probably want to open an issue at
00:41 dcook Wait not that one..
00:41 dcook Maybe it's this one..[…]nAPI::Mojolicious
00:41 dcook Or wait I alrady shared that other github..
00:41 tuxayo > Using the Debian packages we could automate it fairly easily
00:41 tuxayo > The only issue will be for people not using Debian packages
00:41 dcook
00:42 dcook As that's the source of that cache
00:42 tuxayo IIUC only Debian/Ubuntu users would have this issue. Well, other distros could have found this lack of license and exclude this file
00:42 dcook ^
00:42 dcook Good point
00:42 dcook Excellent point
00:42 dcook Of course, the current workaround will solve this problem "permanently" for anyone who puts it in
00:43 dcook But that puts a lot of people at risk still
00:43 tuxayo > Right, but isn't part of that
00:43 tuxayo Oh, it's 3 level! (Swagger, JSON::Validator, Debian)
00:43 dcook So I'm going to do the workaround on... two more servers and then I'll write a patch
00:43 tuxayo JSON::Validator can't decide the license of this file. It's from Swagger
00:43 dcook Ah right
00:43 dcook My mistake
00:43 dcook Silly me
00:43 dcook Because JSON::Validator just has a copy of it
00:43 dcook I definitely need some sugar/caffeine heh
00:50 tuxayo > But that puts a lot of people at risk still
00:50 tuxayo You mean the current workaround puts a lot of people at risk?
00:51 dcook Well, it'll fix the problem for anyone that does it
00:51 dcook But any new installs will have the problem
00:51 dcook And installs that don't have reactive/proactive support
00:52 tuxayo Ok I get it now. Good nothing worse then ^^"
00:52 dcook Anyway, just about to start on this patch
00:53 tuxayo > And installs that don't have reactive/proactive support
00:53 tuxayo Hopefully they aren't on >= Koha 19.11 yet
00:55 dcook I think this will probably affect anyone using the API but I haven't checked
00:55 dcook Hmm tcohen pointed out the licence at[…]ob/master/LICENSE
00:58 tuxayo Good find, maybe
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01:01 tuxayo dcook: the schema file is also here:[…]/v2.0/schema.json
01:02 tuxayo So under the Apache 2 license of the repo Apache License 2.0
01:02 tuxayo *[…]ob/master/LICENSE
01:02 dcook Cheers, tuxayo
01:02 dcook Interestingly there is a 1 line difference between them
01:02 dcook I'll go with this latest one you've provided
01:02 tuxayo Indeed lol, one line diff
01:03 * tuxayo tries the find the Debian issue tracker for the package
01:05 tuxayo «Cheers, tuxayo»
01:05 tuxayo IIUC, that means you are leaving o/
01:05 tuxayo See you, good luck.
01:05 tuxayo (actually I think there are 1/2 chances that it's not that XD)
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01:09 dcook Still around heh
01:09 dcook Just trying to focus
01:09 tuxayo 👌
01:11 dcook Interesting...
01:12 dcook It looks like $validator->bundle is using a massively simpler schema file
01:12 dcook So if there are failures it's beacuse bundle isn't working..
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01:19 dcook Unless..
01:19 dcook Ahh I see it now..
01:20 dcook It's /usr/share/koha/lib/Koha/R​EST/Plugin/
01:20 dcook Bundle is working in /usr/share/koha/lib/Koha/REST/, although it's fallback would fail..
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01:30 dcook Which means it only affects plugin-enabled instances
01:32 dcook tuxayo: Looks like I'll have a very simple fix coming soon I think
01:32 dcook Well...
01:32 dcook Actually yeah... yeah
01:32 tuxayo ^^
01:34 dcook Well "simple" from a sysadmin point of view
01:34 dcook Due to the way Koha/REST/Plugin/ is written there is a lot of refactoring to do..
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01:40 tuxayo Good news, has seen little changes between 19.11, 20.05 and master
01:40 dcook Great :)
01:49 dcook tcohen: Looks like you're awake. Are you on IRC too?
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02:11 dcook Hmm looks like maybe I was wrong about being the problem..
02:11 dcook Ahhh because it doesn't have the validator..
02:13 tuxayo I'm trying to report a bug to the Debian package bug tracker but it's very recommended to use their "reportbug" program for that.
02:13 tuxayo I'm fighting since too much time with the packages on EndeavourOS (Arch Linux actually) (I even have to install apt!).
02:14 tuxayo And I just realized that I have a Debian running on my computer: my Koha dev env! :D
02:15 dcook Woohoo, created a code fix
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02:20 dcook On Bugzilla, tcohen said the best solution is probably to do a new package that includes the JSON cache. That's probably true.
02:20 dcook But figure I may as well include this code fix
02:20 tuxayo dcook++
02:21 tuxayo > the best solution is probably to do a new package that includes the JSON cache
02:21 tuxayo Indeed, that way, deployers only have to update the perl-deps, no patch to apply.
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02:23 dcook Although then that's another thing for us to maintain forever, if Debian doesn't change its package
02:24 dcook I mean arguably a code change would be too, although it would be explicit - rather than hidden
02:27 dcook The other pro is mine is available in about 10 seconds from now heh
02:32 dcook Bug 23653
02:32 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23653 blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
02:32 dcook I'm happy with either a Debian dependency fix or this code fix. Figure it's nice to have options.
02:37 tuxayo yep
02:37 tuxayo > The other pro is mine is available in about 10 seconds from now heh
02:37 tuxayo he he
02:37 tuxayo Wait, I forgot to report to that there schema hosting is down! :o
02:37 tuxayo Doing that now
02:39 dcook Oh yeah that would be a good one heh
02:39 tuxayo done
02:40 dcook Although I'm kind of grateful for it in a way, since it exposes this fairly unacceptable reliance on the outside world
02:40 dcook I've set up a number of non-Internet connected Koha installations over the years
02:40 dcook No reason for Koha to require the Internet
02:40 tuxayo > grateful for it in a way, since it exposes this fairly unacceptable reliance on the outside world
02:40 tuxayo yep
02:40 tuxayo It's a good moment to happen in summer ^^
02:41 dcook Well, it's winter here and the end of the financial year heh
02:41 tuxayo > non-Internet connected Koha installations
02:41 tuxayo I heard about a few of them also
02:41 dcook I guess a lot of people did just pay their bills in June so that's handy
02:41 dcook >_>
02:41 dcook For instance, we helped one school that is physically quite distant from any Internet service
02:42 dcook I think it's provided using a microwave beam to a tower several kilometres away
02:42 dcook That one is in Kyrgyzstan
02:42 tuxayo Yeah, WiFi with directional antennas can do that
02:42 tuxayo wow :D
02:42 tuxayo > I guess a lot of people did just pay their bills in June so that's handy
02:42 tuxayo I didn't get that ^^"
02:43 dcook They had some networking troubles, but weren't Internet connected, so I remotely instructed them on how to use the CLI in English... where the person working was an English speaker with a Russian translator and the Debian was in Russian... heh
02:43 tuxayo Until know I only though the dependence on was for tests. But nope ^^"
02:43 tuxayo wooooooooooooow
02:43 dcook That was a special day for me lol
02:43 tuxayo congrats to whole chain that it worked
02:44 dcook Yeah, it was pretty amazing
02:44 dcook I still am amazed we managed to cooperate so well
02:44 dcook I don't think we refer to in the tests? At least I hope not
02:45 dcook Anyway, probably time for me to get some lunch and decompress O_O
02:45 dcook tuxayo: Check out the patch if you have a few minutes. It wound up being a lot easier than I anticipated
02:47 tuxayo > I don't think we refer to in the tests?
02:47 tuxayo Indeed, but I guess it's for the same reasons of the current issue required to run the tests.
02:47 tuxayo ok, reading the patch
02:48 tuxayo I'm signing off while I'm at it.
02:49 tuxayo Quite small patch indeed!
02:59 dcook Cheers :)
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03:02 tuxayo Well done dcook o/
03:06 dcook Thanks. I'm like a bulldog with problems I guess. Have to understand and fix it >_>
03:06 dcook Speaking of sinking my teeth into things, I'm going to go get some lunch O_O
03:07 dcook bbiab
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03:35 tuxayo bug 23653
03:35 wahanui bug 23653 is the Swagger-apocalypse!!!!!
03:35 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23653 blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
03:36 tuxayo muahahaha
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03:51 dcook Too right
03:56 dcook Hmm you know something else to keep in mind is that the API brought down the whole of Koha...
03:56 dcook I mean I guess the Intranet and maybe the OPAC increasingly depend on the API so maybe that's not a bad thing per se...
03:58 dcook Oh it looks like Mason has updated the package
04:01 dcook Interesting... it has a number of additional dependencies
04:01 dcook Or maybe my test instance is just a bit messed up..
04:02 dcook Ah yep. It was just messed up
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04:22 mtj hmm, ive clicked that both ubuntu eoan and focal have higer versions of libjson-validator-perl than 3.06
04:23 mtj .. so they choose those versions over the 3.06+koha patched version :/
04:27 mtj i might have to use libjson-validator-perl 3.23, over 3.06
04:27 mtj js-val 3.25 has some problematic deps, like libsereal-encoder-perl (>= 4.00)
04:29 mtj dcook++ many thanks for the swagger patch
04:30 dcook Yikes! Thanks for the heads up
04:30 dcook Glad that I'm so busy I hadn't tried deploying it too widely
04:31 dcook mtj++ I'd have pulled out hair if it weren't for your workaround this morning
04:31 dcook mtj: Can you update https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=23653 with your notes?
04:31 huginn Bug 23653: blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
04:31 dcook At the moment, I'm saying the updated package is all good
04:32 mtj yep, will do ^
04:38 dcook Thanks :D
05:07 aleisha hi can someone please tell me how to enable strict_sql_modes on my dev environment?
05:07 aleisha i've enabled the flag in etc/koha-conf.xml but that doesn't seem to have changed anything
05:08 aleisha is there something else i need to do?
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05:27 dcook aleisha: what are you trying to test?
05:28 dcook Ah I think I know
05:28 dcook aleisha: After you updated etc/koha-conf.xml, did you clear your Memcached?
05:29 dcook That'll bite you every time O_O
05:29 aleisha yes i restarted it and mysqld
05:29 dcook Ahh that might explain why I get different results from the mysql CLI and Koha...
05:29 aleisha strangely no errors :/
05:30 dcook You were expecting errors?
05:31 aleisha bug 24488
05:31 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=24488 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, aleisha, ASSIGNED , Holds to Pull sometimes shows the wrong 'first patron' details
05:32 aleisha im not see the errors that others have seen with strict_sql_modes enabled
05:33 aleisha im heading home now but will come to this tomorrow :)
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06:19 reiveune hello
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06:23 did joined #koha
06:28 dcook @later tell aleisha Hmm no idea
06:28 huginn dcook: The operation succeeded.
06:28 dcook heya reiveune
06:28 * dcook refers people to Bug 23653
06:28 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23653 blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
06:29 dcook If Europeans aren't experiencing problems yet, I imagine they will soon
06:36 mtj i have built a json-validator-3.23 ready - just testing it on jenkins before golive
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06:44 dcook mtj: I was wondering where you were at. That's good to know.
06:44 dcook mtj is certainly the Koha hero of the day I reckon
06:44 dcook Or Days because of timezones heh
06:50 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U16 build #13: FAILURE in 3 min 24 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U16/13/
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06:55 cait1 morning all
06:56 cait1 can someone help me on how to diagnose the Plack issue?
06:57 dcook Sure
06:57 cait1 so far we have one report for one instance on a server with others that is slow...
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06:57 cait1 is there any rule on which versions / OS are affected?
06:57 dcook Debian/Ubuntu for sure
06:58 dcook I didn't have the issue on OpenSUSE as we're using a CPAN module there which doesn't have the problem
06:58 cait1 we are on Debian
06:58 dcook I'm not sure which versions of Koha. I'd say definitely 19.11+ but maybe 19.05+
06:58 alex_a Bonjour
06:58 dcook I'd say chances are you're affected, cait1
06:58 dcook Because it's early in the day for you, you may still have some long-lived Plack processes going
06:58 dcook But as new ones are created, they'll fail
06:59 dcook And you'll notice a loop of failures in your plack-error.log
06:59 mtj dcook: ^ thanks, its makes a nice change from breaking things :p
06:59 dcook mtj: heh
06:59 dcook cait1: One of the easiest solutions is here https://bugs.koha-community.or[…].cgi?id=23653#c11
06:59 cait1 yea the first report is from jakarta
06:59 huginn Bug 23653: blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
06:59 cait1 so ... they have been busy earlier than us
06:59 dcook Yep makes sense
07:00 cait1 we are 18.11
07:00 dcook Hmm probably still affected
07:00 dcook I think anything with the Mojolicious::OpenAPI plugin will be affected
07:00 dcook So anything running the REST API I would think
07:01 mtj cait1: the plack bug depends on which version of libjson-validator-perl you have
07:01 dcook That uses the Debian package for libjson-validator-perl
07:01 dcook ^
07:01 dcook The Debian team excluded some files which turned out to be quite essential
07:01 dcook Due to being unavailable currently
07:02 dcook Still no idea whether the unavailability is intentional or not
07:02 dcook I'm guessing unintentional since they're still showing v2 docs at[…]/basic-structure/
07:02 cait1 and we are in the middle of an update on one of our servers too :(
07:02 dcook If you're able to pop on, there is a quick workaround that can save you
07:02 cait1 strange  question... but has someone tried to get them to fix that?
07:02 dcook yeah tuxayo reported it to them
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07:03 cait1 we will have tof ix the broken link, but that woudl at least give some relief
07:03 dcook Oh we have lots of solutions already in the works heh
07:03 dcook The relief for now is to create this file: /usr/share/perl5/JSON/Validator/cache/36d1bd12eeed51e86c8695bd8876a9df
07:04 dcook You could copy https://raw.githubusercontent.[…]/v2.0/schema.json to /usr/share/perl5/JSON/Validator/cache/36d1bd12eeed51e86c8695bd8876a9df
07:04 dcook That would be the fastest way to do it
07:04 dcook although you'd have to manually create the /usr/share/perl5/JSON/Validator/cache directory
07:04 dcook cait1: I also have a patch that can fix the problem available on that Bugzilla report
07:05 dcook And mtj is almost done preparing a new libjson-validator-perl package which will also resolve the problem
07:05 * dcook might hang around for a bit to help folk even though it's home time
07:12 dcook Ok it's a lot quieter than I thought it would be
07:12 cait1 i thought the package was done?
07:13 cait1 I don't have server access so have to forward the information
07:13 cait1 is this fix working? https://lists.koha-community.o[…]-July/045842.html
07:16 dcook It was but then mtj found some dependency issues for newer versions of Ubuntu, so had to redo it with a newer version
07:16 dcook I tested it on Debian Jessie and it worked
07:16 dcook Version 3.06+dfsg-1+koha1 that is
07:17 cait1 it woudl be good to communicate that
07:17 dcook Yeah, I thought that he'd updated Bugzilla. He has it on IRC further up.
07:17 dcook Oh I think he has 3.23 up now too
07:18 dcook I can see 3.23+dfsg-1+koha1 available
07:18 dcook So yeah you'd probably be fine doing an "apt-get update && apt-get install libjson-validator-perl"
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07:22 dcook cait1: ^
07:23 cait1 the issue is, my coworker says there is no JSON error in the logs
07:23 cait1 so at the moment i am a little puzzled
07:24 mtj dcook: hiya, just testing 3.23 on the staging repo...
07:24 dcook mtj: Oh oops
07:24 dcook Didn't realize koha-testing-docker used the staging repo
07:25 dcook cait1: That's a tough one to troubleshoot remotely :/
07:26 mtj cait1: id say you are running an older koha and/or debian - so you havent hit the problem
07:27 dcook I think I'll do a quick check now to see if 18.11 will be bitten by it
07:27 mtj if you are on 18.11 with jessie , you will have libjson-validator-perl (0.97-1~kohadev1)
07:27 cait1 older Koha yes, but our Debian is not so old i think
07:27 dcook Yeah 18.11 should be vulnerable
07:27 dcook Oh is that one OK?
07:28 dcook That's interesting
07:28 mtj ^ that was built from cpan, so has cache dir (i think)
07:28 dcook Yeah just noticed the kohadev1. That's promising
07:28 cait1 so 18.11 on jessie should be ok?
07:29 mtj yep ^
07:29 dcook I guess one way to make sure..
07:30 mtj confirmed libjson-validator-perl (0.97-1~kohadev1) has the cache dir
07:30 cait1 thx for your help dcook and mtj
07:30 dcook Yep
07:30 dcook Confirmed it too just now
07:31 cait1 Debian 4.9.210 on about page... stretch?
07:31 dcook Stretch should be ok too
07:31 dcook[…]on-validator-perl
07:31 dcook As Stretch comes with 0.92
07:31 cait1 so which is the broken one?
07:31 dcook Buster
07:32 cait1 I guess we will get asked a fair bit today, so I can help
07:32 dcook And Ubuntu 18.04+ for sure
07:33 dcook I'll add a little summary to bugzilla
07:33 ashimema Mornin'
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07:33 dcook heyo ashimema
07:33 ashimema Sounds like you had a busy day dcook
07:33 dcook Oh yeah lol
07:33 cait mtj++ and dcook++ btw
07:33 dcook Had all my servers fixed by 9:30am
07:34 ashimema Thanks for jumped Ng on that one.. it's one I was aware of in the periphery but turned out way worse than I thought
07:34 dcook But took a while to completely turn the code inside out
07:34 ashimema Wasn't aware Debian had removed the cached file
07:34 dcook Yeah I think I saw the Bugzilla report a week ago and thought nothing of it as it hadn't hit us
07:36 ashimema I think I was the one that argued for shipping with a cached version of that file in the first place over in the openapi camp.. the is just proves how worthwhile that was
07:36 dcook Yeah no kidding
07:36 dcook Even if I'd argue "cache" is a bit of a misnomer in this case heh
07:37 dcook Or maybe I've been misunderstanding the definition all this time...
07:37 dcook Actually probably the latter
07:37 * dcook goes back to making his table instead of letting his mind be blown on the definition of cache
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07:39 cait2 that was bad decsision number one... but also wondering why the file is still offline :(
07:40 dcook cait2: This table should be useful: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…].cgi?id=23653#c39
07:40 huginn Bug 23653: blocker, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
07:40 dcook Yeah I wonder why it is still offline too
07:40 dcook Although kind of glad that it is to expose this problem at least
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07:44 ashimema :)
07:45 dcook I was going to go home tonight to work on mobile games for my kid, but maybe no more coding for me tonight lol
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07:47 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D9 build #20: ABORTED in 8 min 56 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_20.05_D9/20/
07:51 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D9 build #21: ABORTED in 3 min 45 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_20.05_D9/21/
07:51 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D10 build #18: ABORTED in 4 min 43 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_D10/18/
07:51 dcook Just confirmed a Debian Jessie library is up and all good
07:52 cait1 i have troubel reading comment 39 on the bug
07:52 cait1 i read it three tiems and i still not get it :)
07:53 cait1 help?
07:53 wahanui rumour has it help is appreciated for bugs and keeping jenkins happy
07:53 cait1 so... if we are building our own packageson debian stretch... what am I going to do?
07:56 cait joined #koha
07:56 cait hm got disconnected sorry (vpn)
07:56 dcook You should be fine on Debian Stretch
07:56 dcook I'll add a follow-up comment
07:58 dcook cait: Ok I hope comment 40 is better
07:58 dcook Just remembered Debian Jessie 8 was EOL yesterday
07:58 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U20 build #13: SUCCESS in 38 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U20/13/
07:59 dcook I have a lot of instances on Ubuntu 18.04 which is why we got hit by it so much
07:59 dcook But all my Debian Jessie instances are fine
08:00 dcook And my non-Debian/Ubuntu instances are fine
08:00 dcook Not that I have many of those left anymore
08:00 dcook Hmm
08:00 dcook Although now that I think abotu it...
08:01 dcook koha-testing-docker is Debian Stretch 9
08:01 dcook But it had the problem...
08:01 dcook Oh probably because it uses the staging repo..
08:01 dcook Hmm or not..
08:01 * dcook scratches his head
08:02 dcook Or maybe I was imagining the issue in koha-testing-docker..
08:02 dcook Although that's when oleonard mentioned it I think..
08:02 dcook Anyway, I think it's time for me to call it a night
08:02 dcook Wishing everyone luck with their day
08:05 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U18 build #15: UNSTABLE in 57 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U18/15/
08:06 cait thx dcook - latest comment clears it up :)
08:10 cait sorry to ask again... but checkout i see we have 0.97 - later than listed on the bug. still no need to worry?
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08:14 TimothyAlexis Hello. :)
08:15 cait mtj maybe?
08:16 cait ok, I think i found the answer: confirmed libjson-validator-perl (0.97-1~kohadev1) has the cache dir  = so we are good
08:16 mtj hi cait, yes.. 0.97 is ok :)
08:19 fridolin[…]20-07-01:biblibre chris_n
08:19 fridolin oups wrong chan ;)
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08:23 TimothyAlexis In, when looking at full history, the search facets look strange. Is there a patch for this?
08:23 TimothyAlexis[…]it-looks-like.png
08:23 TimothyAlexis[…]t-should-look.png
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08:36 TimothyAlexis I will report it as a bug.
08:40 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D10 build #19: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_D10/19/
08:48 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D9 build #22: UNSTABLE in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_20.05_D9/22/
08:53 TimothyAlexis https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25906
08:53 huginn Bug 25906: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , In, when looking at full history, the search facet form should look good.
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09:40 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
09:40 wahanui Congratulations!
09:40 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #194: FIXED in 51 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.11_D9/194/
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09:49 ashimema[…]77999574054043648
09:49 ashimema Anyone fancy joining that discussion.. I'm always interested to see Koha from different view points and would love to see a good debate
09:51 davidnind I saw this this morning, but wasn't sure how to respond... I see you've jumped in!
09:59 sophie_m @paul_p ton message sur koha-info va semer la panique, chez nous seuls les clients sous bionic sont concernés.
09:59 huginn sophie_m: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
09:59 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
09:59 sophie_m wrong chan :-[
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10:01 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D10 build #27: SUCCESS in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.11_D10/27/
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10:21 eythian ashimema: re: looking dated, I think the only way to avoid that is to schedule a complete redesign/rewrite every three years to keep up with current fashions. Which isn't a bad idea, but likely much more work than it's worth.
10:21 eythian Anything else is necessarily going to be incremental.
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10:50 oleonard ashimema: Library Thing has had it in for Koha for a long time, don't know why
10:51 ashimema Yeah, I've noticed that
10:51 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #191: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_19.11_U18/191/
10:51 oleonard I don't think it's worth engaging with Tim Spalding because he seems to have some kind of grudge
10:51 ashimema As for looking dated.. people round here have been on about redesigning to opac for ages but I've really not seen a clear way to do it which kept allot of the features people are using
10:52 ashimema Those that are really keen just aren't using the opac in my experience.. they bolt WordPress or discovery system on top instead.
10:52 ashimema Fair points
10:57 eythian Wow, librarything. Turns out I last logged into that in 2007.
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11:11 Null404 Hi, I got strange bug on Koha - Hold queue won't updates properly
11:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #196: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 30 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.11_D8/196/
11:12 Null404 other Holds seems to work: Holds to pull, Holds awaiting pickup for your library and Hold ratios
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11:35 oleonard lists 5 libraries using LibraryThing, so we do have some catching up to do.
11:35 * oleonard needs to stop
11:36 khall joined #koha
11:42 oleonard khall++
11:44 oleonard khall should Bug 4948 be "needs signoff?"
11:44 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4948 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , When cancelling a waiting hold, allow to trigger hold for next patron
11:46 khall oleonard the patch I just submitted doesn't quite fit the description. I'm considering moving it to a separate bug. What do you think? This one operates on the checkin page, not the holds over page
11:47 oleonard I guess a new bug would be appropriate
11:47 oleonard I've got my signoff ready :)
11:47 khall oleonard I'll take care of that right now then!
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11:48 oleonard It's too bad it wasn't just right for 4948 because fixing a 10-year-old bug with one line is pretty cool 8)
11:54 khall oleonard https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25907
11:54 huginn Bug 25907: minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , When cancelling a waiting hold on, looks for new hold to fill without rescanning barcode
11:54 khall oleonard I'll prolly be working on that one too, but I need to talk to talljoy about it
11:55 cait2 khall: could yougive your opinion on the pathological holds patch maybe?
11:55 khall cait2 what's the bug number?
12:05 tcohen morning
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12:07 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U16 build #14: ABORTED in 1 min 42 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U16/14/
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12:10 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U20 build #14: FAILURE in 1 min 42 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U20/14/
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12:22 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
12:22 wahanui Congratulations!
12:22 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D10 build #20: FIXED in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_D10/20/
12:40 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
12:40 wahanui Congratulations!
12:40 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D9 build #23: FIXED in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_20.05_D9/23/
12:41 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U16 build #15: STILL FAILING in 4 min 39 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U16/15/
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12:43 tcohen who's aaru_swartz?
12:43 wahanui i guess aaru_swartz is facing an issue in uploading bulk data in Koha
12:47 tcohen I mistakenly thought they had +o perms on the channel
12:49 tcohen cait2 any doubts about my position on that field name?
12:51 mtj hi tcohen, ive been testing a new package for 23653
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12:51 tcohen mtj cool
12:52 mtj it looks like it might work for ubuntu 20,19,18 - but breaks on ubuntu 16
12:52 tcohen because it is a newer version?
12:54 mtj hmm, i think its because u16's perl version is older, and causes a problem..
12:54 mtj 00:04:19.051 koha_1       | #     Tried to use 'Koha::REST::V1'.
12:54 mtj 00:04:19.051 koha_1       | #     Error:  "uniq" is not exported by the List::Util module
12:54 mtj https://jenkins.koha-community[…]05_U16/15/console
12:56 mtj ...i havent quite got to a fix for it yet :/
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13:00 tcohen doesn't Ubuntu 16 rely on a different repo schema?
13:04 mtj hmm, im not quite sure what you mean tcohen?
13:05 mtj i think 'uniq' was added to libscalar-list-utils-perl in 1.47 - and u16 has 1.43 :'(
13:06 tcohen can't we keep the older library version, but with the cached file?
13:08 mtj i think short answer is no - that wont work for u20 and u19, they will use higer pkg versions
13:10 mtj hmm, let me test a few ideas...
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13:21 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
13:21 wahanui Congratulations!
13:21 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U18 build #16: FIXED in 57 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U18/16/
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13:30 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
13:30 wahanui Congratulations!
13:30 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U20 build #15: FIXED in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U20/15/
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13:39 mtj hmm, i think ive found a combo of json-validator and libmojolicious-plugin-openapi that works for all versions
13:39 tcohen mtj++
13:39 mtj tests pending... but it looks promising
13:42 mtj is back up too ->
14:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D9 build #24: ABORTED in 12 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_20.05_D9/24/
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14:41 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D10 build #21: SUCCESS in 56 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_D10/21/
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14:44 nlegrand ahlan
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15:11 reiveune bye
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15:36 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_D9 build #25: SUCCESS in 1 hr 8 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_20.05_D9/25/
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15:41 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
15:41 wahanui Congratulations!
15:41 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U16 build #16: FIXED in 1 hr 12 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U16/16/
15:42 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U20 build #16: SUCCESS in 55 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U20/16/
15:45 tuxayo dcook: «I'm not sure which versions of Koha. I'd say definitely 19.11+ but maybe 19.05+»
15:45 tuxayo cait2 : bug 23653 is 19.11+ so no worries on 18.11
15:45 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23653 blocker, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
15:49 tuxayo «I think anything with the Mojolicious::OpenAPI plugin will be affected»
15:49 tuxayo Oh, maybe something else makes my 19.05 Koha on Debian work.
15:52 tuxayo Here is the test that showed that version 19.05 works:
15:52 tuxayo https://bugs.koha-community.or[…].cgi?id=23653#c16
15:52 huginn Bug 23653: blocker, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
15:54 tcohen tuxayo, please communicate with mtj, we need coordination for a proper solution to this in the long term
15:54 tcohen (i.e. so it doesn't bite us again)
15:58 tuxayo I'm just catching up and giving some info buried in the bug report ^^
15:58 tuxayo (Ok it's fine Debian 9 that's why)
16:00 tuxayo > we need coordination for a proper solution to this in the long term
16:00 tuxayo That's seems to be moving forward in the bug report. With the solution via patch and the one via a package from the Koha repo.
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16:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U18 build #17: UNSTABLE in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U18/17/
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17:15 oleonard tcohen still around?
17:15 talljoy joined #koha
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17:27 tcohen oleonard yes
17:29 oleonard See Bug 25909
17:29 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=25909 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Recent change to datatables JS in the OPAC causes errors
17:31 * oleonard resists the urge to suggest the xpm format in reply to the Webp question on the mailing list
17:42 tcohen oleonard what is the difference between _ and __
17:42 tcohen is _ wrong? and the right one __?
17:42 tcohen I always forget
17:43 tcohen I think it was Joubu's follow-up
17:43 tcohen https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]ent.cgi?id=105922
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18:15 oleonard Sorry tcohen, I had to be afk for a bit
18:15 tcohen no worries, I understood the difference between _ and __ already and submitted a patch
18:16 tcohen that OPAC portion of the bug was supposed to be used by bug 20936 that sunk and we went the-old-way to avoid it being blocked by the discussion about the API implementation details
18:16 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=20936 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, agustinmoyano, Signed Off , Holds History for patrons in OPAC
18:18 oleonard tcohen, unfortunately the single-underscore function won't do anything because it doesn't work inside a JS file. We have to go back to passing the MSG_DT_* variables
18:18 oleonard[…]e545b8eccc#patch2
18:19 tcohen ah
18:19 tcohen that's sad :-D
18:19 tcohen how does it work on staff and not in the OPAC
18:20 oleonard tcohen: Because no one has signed off on Bug 25351 yet :)
18:20 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=25351 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Move cart-related strings out of and into basket.js
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18:43 cait can someone take my twitter?
18:43 oleonard cait does your Twitter need to be put in a time-out?
18:45 cait kind of, i want to avoid getting more upset and writing things
18:46 oleonard I am certainly working hard to not engage that Library Thing troll
18:47 cait I lost that fight :(
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19:04 davidnind ashimema++
19:04 davidnind cait++
19:04 davidnind (for replying to the tweet)
19:05 cait i am very doubtful
19:06 davidnind sends oleonard virtual cookies/chocolate/beverage of choice
19:07 davidnind and to all the Koha contributors, continually making Koha better
19:08 * tcohen catches one
19:12 davidnind I personally don't mind the OPAC design - it is straight forward, functional and easy to use (maybe I've become a bit too familiar with it)
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19:29 tcohen cait where do I look for that conversation
19:31 davidnind tcohen:[…]77999574054043648
19:32 oleonard joined #koha
19:32 cait yep there
19:49 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D10 build #28: SUCCESS in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.11_D10/28/
19:49 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U18 build #18: STILL UNSTABLE in 57 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_20.05_U18/18/
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19:56 ashimema Evening
19:59 * ashimema doesn't like people spreading FUD so tried hard to be the friendly but informative positive spin person
19:59 * cait tried to stick with facts...
19:59 cait but i think it got lost anyway :)
19:59 ashimema Certainly had some positive affects.. got to showcase so more recent features and show off positive relationships.
20:00 ashimema Meeting?
20:00 wahanui Meeting is probably over :)
20:00 ashimema I'm coming from my phone so can't volunteer to run it tonight
20:00 * cait just had espresso in hope to stay awake
20:02 * tuxayo runs to get water and food
20:03 davidnind #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020
20:03 huginn Meeting started Wed Jul  1 20:03:53 2020 UTC.  The chair is davidnind. Information about MeetBot at
20:03 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:03 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:03 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_1_july_2020'
20:04 davidnind #chair cait ashimema
20:04 huginn Current chairs: ashimema cait davidnind
20:04 davidnind #info Agenda: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]eting_1_July_2020
20:04 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
20:04 davidnind #topic Introductions
20:04 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:04 cait oops, too early
20:04 tallerjoy #info Joy Nelson Bywater Solutions
20:05 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
20:05 davidnind :)
20:05 lukeG1 #info Lucas Gass ByWater Solutions
20:05 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
20:06 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater
20:06 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens ByWater
20:07 tuxayo-read-only joined #koha
20:07 tuxayo #info tuxayo/Victor Grousset, France
20:08 davidnind #topic Announcements
20:08 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:08 davidnind Has anyone got any announcements to share?
20:09 cait oh
20:09 cait i got one
20:09 lisettelatah joined #koha
20:09 davidnind Nice update on kohacon20 is here[…]2%80%93-episode-1
20:10 cait #info Please help testing Bug 20271  - Merge deleted biblio, biblioitems, biblio_metadata, and items tables! (also see Call for Testing on koha-devel)
20:10 davidnind #info Update on Kohacon20[…]2%80%93-episode-1
20:10 davidnind Thanks cait!
20:10 davidnind #topic Update from the Release manager (20.11)
20:10 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (20.11) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:11 davidnind Possible a bit late for Joubu... so moving on.
20:11 tuxayo For bug 20271, a summary is here:
20:11 tuxayo https://lists.koha-community.o[…]-June/045810.html
20:11 tcohen he's offline
20:11 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=20271 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Merge deleted biblio, biblioitems, biblio_metadata, and items tables
20:11 davidnind #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
20:11 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:12 tcohen I've successfully tested yesterday an
20:12 tcohen d a 0bit t0oday
20:12 davidnind thanks tcohen!
20:12 tcohen Javier says hi to the keyboard
20:12 tcohen there's an issue with teh atomicupdate
20:12 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-E
20:12 tuxayo rmaints?
20:12 wahanui lukeG, aleisha, and tuxayo, I SUMMON THEE!!
20:13 davidnind congratulations to the release maintainers aleisha and tuxayo for their first releases!
20:13 cait tcohen: could you add what you tested here maybe tcohen?
20:13 tcohen yes m'am
20:13 cait aleisha++ tuxayo++
20:13 cait thx :)
20:13 davidnind #info Congratulations to the release maintainers aleisha and tuxayo for their first releases
20:13 lukeG1 First maintain release was last week for the new team. Things seem to be going well. Thanks to Joubu for rolling the 20.05.01 release for me while I was away!
20:13 tuxayo 19.05.x: first release was done. I'm looking forward to next ones to less struggle ^^
20:13 tuxayo Joubu++
20:14 tuxayo Thanks to various people here on the channel that helped me! :D <3
20:14 davidnind Excellent!
20:14 wahanui darn tootin' it is.
20:14 ashimema Well done guys and gals
20:15 davidnind #topic Updates from the QA team
20:15 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:16 cait #info QA team is bigger, list is too! :)
20:16 cait looking for something to add :9
20:17 ashimema Trying to keep up cait.  But also catching up on work
20:17 cait at the moment the queue has a lot of bigger patches, so getting the numbers down is not so easy
20:17 cait but we will keep at it
20:17 ashimema Nice to see more names regularly on the QA leaderboards
20:17 tuxayo No worries about numbers, it's the big stuff window now!
20:17 davidnind one bug at  a time :-D
20:18 cait yep, that's the thing, one bug at a time :)
20:18 ashimema +1
20:18 davidnind thanks cait and the QA team!
20:19 davidnind #topic Actions from last meeting
20:19 Topic for #koha is now Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:20 davidnind as there are a few items, maybe just a quick comment from whomever is responsible
20:20 tuxayo «tuxayo write a proposal for handing over stable branches»
20:20 tuxayo Late sorry, not drafted for now
20:21 cait #info testing day turned into a 2 week thing, maybe will try a different approach next time :)
20:21 davidnind thanks tuxayo!
20:21 ashimema Yikes.. I failed on both my actions
20:22 cait and you wrote the action reminder thing :)
20:22 davidnind with action points being picked up by the meeting script, I guess I just add as actions again..
20:22 tuxayo yep
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20:22 davidnind #action tuxayo - write a proposal for handing over stable branches
20:23 tuxayo Thanks davidnind  I was searching the thing
20:23 davidnind #action ashimema - open a bug report to introduce the idea of having a "skeleton" template we could copy for new pages
20:23 ashimema I did start drafting, but got distracted..
20:23 ashimema Thanks davidnind
20:23 davidnind #action ashimema - to draft the first 'Accessibility' guideline; All OPAC pages require a single 'maincontent' classed block.
20:24 davidnind #action ashimema - write a guideline about mandatory 'maincontent' class (OPAC)
20:24 cait I think oleonard had suggested to wait with the template until we got the bootstrap update in? (iirc?)
20:24 tuxayo Lot of homework for ashimema
20:24 tuxayo cait: Indeed that was mentioned. Not sure about the outcome.
20:24 ashimema I think so too cait
20:25 davidnind okay, that sounds sensible
20:25 davidnind I'll manually update the agenda for next time to remove it
20:25 ashimema 😀
20:26 cait ;)
20:26 davidnind #info "skeleton" template we could copy for new pages - deferred until Boostrap update merged
20:26 davidnind talljoy?
20:26 wahanui well, talljoy is here :)
20:26 tallerjoy yes?
20:27 davidnind the action point for inclusive language
20:27 ashimema You were drafting a language guideline
20:27 tallerjoy Well, i was going to, but it appears that someone already updated the coding guidelines terminology page.
20:28 tallerjoy so, it didn't seem relevant to propose it?  But i can still write one if you'd like it.
20:28 cait do you have the link maybe?
20:28 tallerjoy
20:29 cait ah ok, the terminology
20:29 tallerjoy that link?
20:29 kidclamp bye all. gotta run
20:29 cait was looking at coding guidelines
20:29 davidnind #info Terminology list updated for more inclusive language for
20:29 tuxayo https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]erms_must_be_used
20:29 cait should we have a more general rule?
20:29 cait we only deal with deny list etc now
20:29 tallerjoy this is a terminology issue mainly, so putting it there seems most appropriate.
20:29 cait i think having a guideline as we find more would be helfpul
20:29 cait TERM3 maybe, after gender neutral pronouns
20:30 cait that would be a good spot
20:30 tuxayo Doesn't TERM1 work?
20:30 tallerjoy i had that though, but also tuxayo's thought
20:30 cait only if you have already listed it
20:30 cait so someone hands something in... we think it's bad... QA could refer to general rule about inclusive language
20:31 cait also a terminology list and stating that you want to use inclusive language are different things
20:31 cait explicit and implicit
20:31 cait if that makes sense?
20:32 tallerjoy It would be easy to draft something for a TERM3 section.  I can do that.  I think also folks wanted some context as well about why the change was proposed, and I can include that as well.
20:32 cait yep
20:32 tallerjoy thanks cait.
20:32 cait context
20:32 davidnind tallerjoy++
20:32 ashimema Perfect
20:32 tuxayo +1
20:32 tcohen talljoy++
20:33 bag tallerjoy++
20:33 cait tallestjoy++
20:33 cait :P
20:33 tallerjoy :D
20:33 tcohen tallerjoy++
20:33 ashimema Lol
20:33 davidnind #action tallerjoy - Draft TERM3 for for inclusive language
20:33 ashimema Toomanyjoys++
20:34 tallerjoy heh
20:34 ashimema Hehe
20:34 davidnind Once that is done I guess we will need some bugs for any changes required, but that will come later
20:35 tuxayo «why the change was proposed»
20:35 tuxayo Indeed it was at the proposal stage, so a draft submitted at a meeting would help more people more of us understand the reasons.
20:35 tuxayo That depend of the culture and background: the POV of what kind of language changes are desirable.
20:36 tallerjoy and also to see what other languages have different inclusive language concerns as well.
20:36 tuxayo yep
20:36 cait yeah i think translators coudl refer to the rule as well
20:36 tallerjoy good point!
20:37 davidnind agree, always important that the rationale for a guideline or rule is identified/documented
20:37 davidnind #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
20:37 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
20:37 davidnind thanks tallerjoy!
20:38 davidnind there are no names beside the agenda items...
20:38 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #195: SUCCESS in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.11_D9/195/
20:38 davidnind start removing 'indirect object notation' calls - bug 25898
20:38 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=25898 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Prohibit indirect object notation
20:38 davidnind any takers for this one?
20:38 tcohen +1
20:38 ashimema The first one is about advocating more modern best practice.. we mostly do it already
20:39 ashimema It's 'new thing' Vs 'thing->new' syntactically in code
20:39 davidnind does this need to be a coding guideline?
20:39 ashimema The latter is more modern and is where perl appears to be headed in general
20:40 davidnind or is it just something that needs to be done?
20:40 cait it looks like it would be reaosnably safe to replace?
20:40 tuxayo The manual equivalent of git blame but for the wiki blames ashimema for this meeting item :P
20:40 ashimema Yup
20:41 cait always good to have a coding guideline and qa tools updated
20:41 cait for these kind of things if we are serious about it
20:41 davidnind (not sure whether developers need a guideline for everything, or they automagically pick these things up)
20:41 cait davidnind: i don't think so, because code base is big and undocumented expectations are hard
20:41 ashimema Yup.. we should guideline it and add it to QA tools
20:41 cait it always helps if you can point to something written to help people
20:41 ashimema Ack.. I sense more homework coming
20:42 cait especially the ones new to the project
20:42 davidnind #info  start removing 'indirect object notation' calls - bug 25898 and add as a coding guideline
20:42 tuxayo ++
20:42 davidnind so who gets this one? :)
20:42 thd joined #koha
20:44 davidnind #action ashimema - add a draft coding guideline for direct notation rather than indirect object notation calls
20:44 ashimema Joubu.. for his absence 😛
20:44 ashimema Lol
20:44 davidnind volunteered!
20:44 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
20:45 tuxayo "Seeking cosponsors"
20:45 ashimema Hehe
20:45 ashimema This next one was me too
20:46 ashimema I was just surprised to see the two varieties in the dB structure and wondered if there was a reason to go for one or the other
20:46 ashimema Brb
20:46 davidnind we'll tackle the Perl version until ashimema is back
20:47 davidnind was any general consensus reached on this with developers on the minimum version (I sort of followed some of the discussion, but....)
20:48 tuxayo About item 2: «the former appears in schema classes at dump time.»
20:48 tuxayo Is this good?
20:48 ashimema Back.
20:48 * cait lost the wiki page again
20:48 tuxayo https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]eting_1_July_2020
20:49 cait I tihnk we picked what will show up on schema
20:49 cait schema?
20:49 cait Example: http://schema.koha-community.o[…]tables/items.html
20:49 tuxayo I suppose both show? Otherwise part of them is much less useful :o
20:50 davidnind I like consistency so ...
20:50 cait it's been a whie, do we have an example for comment?
20:50 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
20:50 wahanui Congratulations!
20:50 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #197: FIXED in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.11_D8/197/
20:50 tuxayo I'm searching
20:51 cait https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_in_kohastructure.sql
20:51 cait We have updated Schema Spy a few times since - not sure if there was a change
20:52 tuxayo[…]kohastructure.sql
20:52 ashimema I would hope schemaspy would grab both
20:52 tuxayo Two instance of "COMMENT="
20:52 tuxayo And it's on tables
20:52 tuxayo schemaspy uses it for the table description
20:52 ashimema The -- version only appears in the dumpfile so can't get picked up by dbic dump.. hense why only 'COMMENT' works in the dbic context..
20:53 cait I'd hate to lose the comments on schema
20:53 cait maybe we can find something that works for both
20:53 ashimema In the dbic context it's just the addition of information in the POD.. so describes the fields use in the code rather than having to refer to schemaspy or the kohastructure to find out.
20:53 tuxayo ashimema: this is an example of the alternative?
20:53 tuxayo[…]kohastructure.sql
20:54 tuxayo whoops
20:54 aleisha joined #koha
20:54 tuxayo *[…]tructure.sql#L132
20:54 tuxayo CREATE TABLE `biblio` ( -- table that stores bibliographic information
20:55 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
20:55 wahanui Congratulations!
20:55 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #192: FIXED in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_19.11_U18/192/
20:55 ashimema collections_tracking has COMMENT at the field level
20:55 ashimema How does it appear in the schemaspy schema
20:56 ashimema I also don't know if you need different options when dumping schema via schemaspy to pick them up if we don't already..
20:56 cait http://schema.koha-community.o[…]ons_tracking.html
20:56 tuxayo Ok, so it's like that in SQL
20:56 tuxayo `name` varchar(255) NOT NULL COMMENT 'the name of the field as it will be stored in the search engine',
20:56 cait not sure if it looks right (sparse comments?)
20:57 tuxayo For search field it's ok
20:57 tuxayo http://schema.koha-community.o[…]search_field.html
20:57 tuxayo > not sure if it looks right (sparse comments?)
20:57 tuxayo Seems right
20:59 ashimema Struggling to follow in phone.. but it sounds like the COMMENT version works for both.. so I think I'd advocate moving to that consistently ?
20:59 ashimema As apposed to mixing and matching
21:00 davidnind sounds sensible to me, but I know nothing about this :)
21:00 tuxayo It that the same for the table comment?
21:00 davidnind so, looks like an updated guideline is required - who would like to do that?
21:01 ashimema Fancy investigating that side of it and drafting a guideline tuxayo?
21:01 tuxayo ok!
21:01 ashimema I can help tomorrow
21:02 cait cool
21:02 tuxayo I'm writing the action
21:02 hayley joined #koha
21:02 davidnind #action tuxayo - prepare draft update to SQL11 to improve consistency for descriptions in kohastructure files
21:02 tuxayo thanks davidnind
21:02 davidnind hope I got that right!
21:02 davidnind we are coming up on the hour
21:03 davidnind defer the Perl version to the next meeting?
21:03 ashimema Perfec
21:03 alexbuckley joined #koha
21:04 ashimema Did the next one get anywhere on the lists?
21:04 ashimema I reckon defer it..
21:04 cait hm it looked like 3.14?
21:04 ashimema The conversation seemed to be ongoing on lists 😀
21:04 tuxayo The conclusion was to add it to the next dev meeting :P
21:04 cait the last argument seemed that we push for the version that has the features we want
21:04 ashimema Lol
21:04 cait and i haven't seen someon eargueing for anything beyond 3.14 yet :)
21:05 cait and stick with debian/ubuntu (not go higher than there?)
21:05 ashimema I have in the past.. but I'm not of the same opinion now 😉
21:05 davidnind we could create a loop, and refer it back to the mailing list for discussion :)
21:05 tuxayo Oh yes!
21:06 ashimema 3.14 seems reasonable to me until we find were wanting to use something from a more recent version
21:06 tuxayo +1
21:06 cait +1
21:06 tuxayo > stick with debian/ubuntu (not go higher than there?)
21:06 tuxayo Perl seems to be very backward compatible IIUC so no issues on that side.
21:06 ashimema No point in artificially inflating it
21:06 davidnind is this a voting thing, or just an info and then action to document?
21:07 ashimema Cool
21:07 thd without objection
21:07 tuxayo it' just to reflect the current state of the code. There is no actual change
21:07 thd tuxayo++
21:07 ashimema I reckon we've all just agreed, so let's just action it
21:07 cait yep i think 3.14 is safe and should be done
21:07 cait we should update website, manual and release notes scripts
21:07 tuxayo *5.14
21:08 cait
21:08 cait hm we don't list versions there
21:08 davidnind #info Minimum recommended Perl version is 5.14 (until need to use a more recent version is identified)
21:08 ashimema We should Cait..
21:08 ashimema I'm happy to add that
21:08 cait yeah we probably should
21:08 tuxayo > hm we don't list versions there
21:08 tuxayo Good otherwise that would another source of inconsistency ^^"
21:09 tuxayo Like to somewhere else maybe?
21:09 cait #action ashimema to update requirements on website
21:09 tuxayo Or make the other places link to this?
21:09 cait good question
21:09 cait we could also say: refer to release notes of the version you want to install
21:09 cait for exact version
21:09 cait s
21:09 tuxayo To have less sources of truth
21:09 cait that way if we change for an upcoming veresion... things would still work
21:09 ashimema I like that.. refer to release notes
21:09 cait i mean, the information would still be correct
21:10 cait sorry, late
21:10 ashimema Reference the definitive source
21:10 ashimema 😉
21:10 tuxayo > refer to release notes of the version you want to install
21:10 tuxayo This is very relevant for OS and DBMS, they can change in the middle of a cycle
21:10 cait checking manual
21:10 ashimema /me is getting tired
21:11 cait aren#t you an hour earlier even? ;)
21:11 cait[…]a-recommendations
21:11 cait we shoudl update that too
21:11 cait it refers to wiki, which is not really true
21:11 cait Full system recommendations can be found on the official Koha wiki along with the developer documentation:
21:12 cait #action cait to propose discussion about supported browsers at next meeting (IE especially)
21:12 davidnind Just pick the right page, and your good!
21:12 tuxayo oleonard should be happy
21:12 davidnind #info davidnind Find and update relevant places to record Perl version required, including manual and wiki (one source of the truth)
21:12 cait yeah, that's very hard to follow as advice :)
21:12 cait davidnind: maybe refer to release notes too? people best check that
21:13 tuxayo davidnind: I can also help, these system requirements things have been a lot in my mind lately ^^
21:13 davidnind #action davidnind Find and update relevant places to record Perl version required, including release notes, manual and wiki (one source of the truth)
21:13 davidnind tuxayo++
21:13 davidnind #topic Set time of next meeting
21:13 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 1 July 2020)
21:13 cait it's also something that's asked about reasonably often
21:14 davidnind 14:00 next time and two weeks time?
21:14 ashimema Worthwhile meeting everyone, thanks
21:14 tallerjoy thanks!
21:15 ashimema Works for me
21:15 cait sounds good
21:15 tallerjoy UTC time i assume.
21:15 * tallerjoy will have to do some maths
21:15 davidnind UTC
21:15 ashimema #info davidnind has been an excellent chairperson, thankyou
21:15 tallerjoy yes, that works for me
21:15 cait davidnind++ :)
21:16 tallerjoy davidnind++
21:16 tuxayo davidnind++
21:16 davidnind #info Next meeting: 15 July 2020, 14:00 UTC
21:16 davidnind #endmeeting
21:16 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
21:16 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jul  1 21:16:31 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
21:16 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-01-20.03.html
21:16 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]0-07-01-20.03.txt
21:16 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]01-20.03.log.html
21:16 davidnind thanks everyone!
21:17 davidnind first time I've chaired a development meeting I think..
21:17 ashimema community++
21:17 cait might have been a mistake ;)
21:17 ashimema davidnind++
21:17 cait we might just keep you on
21:17 davidnind :)
21:19 tuxayo Why do my links ended up in the minutes? :o
21:19 tuxayo https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-07-01-20.03.html
21:19 cait hm?
21:19 davidnind thanks for your patience everyone, we just went over the hour (an extra 12 minutes)!
21:20 tuxayo Somehow URLs sent ended up as if it was #info
21:21 tuxayo > we just went over the hour
21:21 tuxayo And we managed to not mention:
21:21 tuxayo Bug 23653!
21:21 wahanui bug 23653 is probably the Swagger-apocalypse!!!!! 🔥🔥 🔥🔥 (the rumor says it started there:
21:21 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23653 blocker, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
21:22 inlibro joined #koha
21:23 tuxayo lukeG1 still around?
21:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U20 build #1: UNSTABLE in 46 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_U20/1/
21:27 lukeG1 Hey tuxayo
21:27 tuxayo lukeG1: I laughed so much when earlier I realized this:
21:28 tuxayo - you had the issue with the koha-testing-docker .env file
21:28 tuxayo - you had the issue with the koha container crashing for some reason
21:28 tuxayo - then you mistyped "kd" in the channel
21:28 tuxayo and 15 min later aleisha reported what would turn out to be bug 23653 turning into a terrible mess that would affect all recent Koha instances in the world
21:28 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23653 blocker, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , Plack stopped working - JSON validation timeout
21:28 tuxayo (actually only recent OSes)
21:28 cait not all recent...
21:28 tuxayo It's like the whole galaxy has aligned with the intention of preventing you to work after coming back from holidays [1]. Nuking part the world's Kohas if needed.
21:28 tuxayo You can tell to bag that another week of holiday is an absolute necessity!
21:28 cait actually we only had one server with my demo instance on it dying :)
21:28 tuxayo [1] not asking what happened there, too scared.
21:29 cait (thankful for that really)
21:29 lukeG1 and my personal problem was I had no $KOHA_IMAGE set
21:29 tuxayo Od, that shouldn't be needed
21:30 lukeG1 Once it was set it quit dying on me when I 'ku'
21:31 tuxayo > (thankful for that really)
21:31 tuxayo Indeed, I got very confused about what factor telling an instance is expected to have the issue
21:31 cait the last comment on the bug helps
21:31 cait although the version for stretch is not 92 but 97 - it seems ok
21:32 kathryn joined #koha
21:36 tuxayo pfiou, the whole thing has great educational value about how things can get tangled
21:41 davidnind left #koha
21:55 tosca joined #koha
22:22 inlibro joined #koha
23:22 inlibro joined #koha
23:23 hayleymapley_ joined #koha
23:25 tosca joined #koha
23:29 dcook That's interesting about Stretch and would explain a lot...
23:29 dcook Might be because of the backports..
23:57 cait joined #koha
23:57 oleonard joined #koha

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