IRC log for #koha, 2017-05-10

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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05:23 josef_moravec morning koha
05:23 josef_moravec happy Bug squashing day ;)
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05:42 cait :)
05:42 cait morning #koha
05:53 dilan afternoon cait from australia
05:54 cait morning from Germany
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06:16 * magnuse waves from norway
06:29 fridolin joined #koha
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06:30 fridolin hie people
06:30 fridolin and wahanui
06:30 fridolin :D
06:35 magnuse hiya fridolin
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06:36 fridolin magnuse: bonjour monsieur
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06:53 alex_a bonjour
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06:59 reiveune hello
07:05 magnuse ooh gbsd!
07:12 paul_p joined #koha
07:13 ashimema indeed..
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07:38 cait joined #koha
07:40 * magnuse is drowning in busy
07:42 * cait suggests swimmies :)
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07:46 gaetan_B hello
07:46 wahanui que tal, gaetan_B
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08:39 eythian hi
08:39 wahanui salut, eythian
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09:16 atheia Good morning Koha on this wonderful GBSD!
09:17 mveron joined #koha
09:18 mveron Hi @koha
09:18 mveron Hi #koha  :-)
09:26 josef_moravec hi mveron
09:27 mveron hi josef_morravec , thanks for so'ing bug 18550
09:27 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18550 normal, P5 - low, ---, veron, Signed Off , Patron card creator: Print output does not respect layout units
09:27 josef_moravec mveron: not at all ;)
09:28 mveron Oh, I misspelled your name...
09:28 * mveron should put his glasses
09:29 josef_moravec mveron: ;)
09:31 alex_a mveron: autocompetion is your friend :)
09:31 mveron competition?  :-)
09:32 alex_a mveron: most of irc client are able to do that
09:32 alex_a start by typing "jo" and press tab key
09:33 alex_a oops
09:33 alex_a autocompletion :D not competion
09:33 mveron :-)
09:34 magnuse that cron problem i talked about yesterday? it might be related to this line in /etc/crontab: 555555555555555555555555555555555555​555555555555555555555555555555555555 7    * * *   root    test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily )
09:34 kidclamp joined #koha
09:35 * kidclamp waves
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09:37 magnuse kia ora kidclamp
09:37 kidclamp hi magnuse
09:37 wahanui kamelåså
09:37 magnuse yay!
09:37 * mveron searches ChatZilla help for autocompletion
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09:40 dcook Boo XML::SAX::PurePerl
09:41 dcook I now see why misc/ recommends XML::LibXML::SAX::Parser even if Koha doesn't actually use XML::SAX anymore...
09:41 dcook For hours... I could not figure out my encoding problem
09:41 dcook And it was just that. Using the wrong SAX parser backend.
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09:41 drojf hi #koha
09:42 kidclamp nice work on RDF stuff dcook, it sounds like things are coming together
09:43 mveron Ok, two tabs...
09:43 dcook Oh yes. I'm quite pleased :)
09:43 dcook Fixed my encoding issues just now... fixed a bug in RDF::Trine. I was chatting to its author a bit over the past few hours as well
09:43 dcook He's going to look at pushing that in.
09:43 dcook I still have to look at the Debian version to see if it's buggy..
09:43 dcook The author also suggested trying Attean
09:43 dcook But considering how far I've come now..
09:44 * mveron waves to drojf and cait
09:47 * cait waves back
09:52 * mveron is called
09:53 eythian hi dcook
09:53 drojf hi mveron
09:53 drojf oh too late
09:53 eythian oh, and drojf
09:53 drojf hi eythian
09:53 wahanui drojf++
09:53 drojf ha
09:53 drojf hi dcook, odd time to see you
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09:59 dcook drojf: Yeah I've been working late lately
09:59 dcook heya eythian
09:59 dcook Homeless at the moment, so I should be house hunting online, but checking up on work instead
09:59 dcook Work is preferable to house hunting >_>
10:10 magnuse dcook: maybe not in the long run? ;-)
10:12 dcook Hehe. No, not in the long run.
10:12 dcook Doing a bit of looking now.
10:12 dcook I'm glad I worked out all my issues with RDF::Trine though
10:13 dcook Btw, have you had a chance to work on the RDF stuff, magnuse?
10:13 dcook I think I have all the conceptual stuff worked out on my side, but still need to write a bit of non-hardcoded coded
10:15 magnuse i have not had the time, no
10:16 magnuse but i have to put in a real effort very soon
10:16 dcook Okies
10:16 dcook I'm hoping to do more work tomorrow. What would be a good way to share with you?
10:16 magnuse good to hear that your import stuff is coming togehter, i thnk it will be easier for me if that is more or less settled
10:16 dcook Yeah, I think so too
10:17 magnuse hm, chat about it here, if you work late
10:17 magnuse or just email to the rdf list is good
10:17 dcook Ok
10:17 dcook In terms of code?
10:17 magnuse i have not even read the last emails, just marked them for reading
10:17 dcook I'm thinking of making a little module for connecting to the triplestore and for adding triples for Koha records
10:17 dcook Ah fair enough. There's a lot of content, as I've been up to a lot!
10:18 dcook Now that I've resolved the RDF::Trine issues, I'm hoping to make huge leaps tomorrow
10:18 magnuse yay
10:18 magnuse that module sounds handy
10:19 magnuse if you do that i can spend my time elsewhere
10:19 magnuse (eslwhere on koha and rdf, that is)
10:28 dcook Yeah that's what I was thinking
10:28 dcook I need it for my work anyway, so I may as well share it
10:28 dcook I might make a Bugzilla issue and attach patches to that and you can pull in from there
10:31 magnuse excellent!
10:35 magnuse atheia around?
10:35 atheia yup! sup?
10:40 magnuse ah, i had an ill question
10:40 magnuse let's see
10:41 magnuse basically it was this: I'm on the detail view of an ill request. can  i use the graph thingy to define a button that i can click, and after clicking it some code in a sub is run and then i'm returned back to the detail view?
10:42 magnuse i tried to do that, but ran into some problem
10:42 Joubu hi #koha
10:42 magnuse and i can't quite recall the details now
10:42 * cait waves
10:42 magnuse hiya Joubu
10:45 dcook Oh, if people have ILL details, I'd love to forward things on, since we do a ton of ILL here
10:46 dcook We thought about doing ISOILL stuff ages ago but I think it was a defunct project?
10:46 * dcook waves to cait and Joubu
10:47 atheia dcook: check out bug 7317
10:47 huginn_ Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7317 new feature, P5 - low, ---, alex.sassmannshausen, Needs Signoff , Add an Interlibrary Loan Module to Circulation and OPAC
10:47 atheia If you have questions about any of that, feel free to poke me!
10:48 atheia magnuse yeah, I definitely think that should be possible.
10:48 atheia I mean that's kind of the point of the status_graph interface.
10:48 atheia Do you remember what the specific problems were? was it to do with just returning to the details screen?
10:48 atheia Or did it fall over in the calling a custom sub bit?
10:50 * cait waves to dcook
10:51 * atheia waves at cait
10:53 * cait waves at atheia
10:54 magnuse atheia: yeah, there was something abut returning to the detail view
10:54 magnuse i'll try and reproduce
10:55 atheia OK — there's a magic line of code you want to add to the return value of the sub in the backend for that.
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10:56 atheia magnuse: see Dummy Backend / line 79
10:57 magnuse commit?
10:57 wahanui commit is, like, a7f7aeb138b8275448937102cb7a46cf49530aef
10:57 atheia the return value key is 'next'; setting it to 'illview' should return the user to the details screen; setting it to 'illlist' (which it defaults to if unspecified) returns to the list table.
10:57 Joubu atheia++ # for fixing my English ;)
10:58 atheia np, glad it was helpful.
10:58 magnuse atheia: ah, that might be the bit i was missing
10:58 atheia Erm… magnuse sorry, can't point to a specific commit. But check out the file, there's some documentation.
10:58 atheia good
10:58 atheia :-)
10:59 magnuse yeah, my file had "commit" on that line :-)
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11:01 marcelr hi #koha
11:01 atheia ah, sorry, misunderstood!
11:02 magnuse hm, that is weird...
11:02 magnuse i have two requests in the db, but they do not show up at all in the gui
11:02 magnuse with the latest patches
11:02 magnuse i just see "Toggle additional columns: and "Reset toggled columns"
11:03 atheia ooh, so the table is not visible either?
11:04 magnuse nope
11:04 atheia That sounds like an API issue, and it sounds familiar…
11:04 atheia I presume you're not using the db admin user account?
11:04 magnuse console says "Uncaught TypeError: Cannot convert undefined or null to object"
11:04 magnuse nope, regular superuser
11:05 magnuse i do get a 200 ok response from the api
11:05 atheia What backend have these requests been added by?
11:07 atheia Could you temporarily switch to clean ill tables, then retest (you should get an empty table); then add a request using Dummy? to test whether it might be due to changes in the way request data is stored & re-loaded in the last few commits?
11:07 magnuse they were added by NNCIPP
11:07 magnuse will do
11:07 dcook Cool, atheia. My boss has written ILL systems used around the country, so I wonder how we might use this module too..
11:07 atheia magnuse: thank you!
11:08 atheia dcook: ooh, sounds very interesting!
11:08 atheia yeah, it'd be really interesting to see how we could integrate a backend for that!
11:08 atheia Definitely happy to help explore that.
11:09 magnuse hm, interesting, i deleted the requests and now i see just the table header, with Author, Title, Borrower
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11:09 dcook atheia: Sweet. I just sent him an email :).
11:09 magnuse but not the stuff that is usually shown around the tables
11:09 magnuse kia ora oha
11:11 atheia magnuse yeah s'what I'm getting too… there seems to be some iffyness in the js that might be causing that. But that sounds "correct" in terms of you adding a new Dummy request
11:11 atheia It should display ok…
11:11 magnuse ok, i'm adding a dummy request now
11:12 oha o/
11:13 magnuse ah, the Dummy request shows ok, so there is something in the NNCIPP stuff, then probably
11:15 atheia Yeah — but you could try just addding an NNCIPP one — it might be that the code just stores and reloads differently somehow.
11:15 atheia Sorry about the API instability!
11:16 oha atheia, magnuse: can i help? i guess it is about ILL
11:16 atheia oha: yeah it is, it is about the ILLModule that hopefully will be integrated into Koha in the next version
11:16 magnuse atheia: too early for API immobility :-)
11:17 atheia Not sure if you can help though, as it is internal to that module's code, rather than ILL standards 'n stuff in general…
11:17 magnuse oha: first question is: can you see any requests on <intra>/cgi-bin/koha/ill/
11:17 atheia But if you have ILL experience, I would love your opinion on the module!
11:17 atheia bug 7317, for reference.
11:17 huginn_ Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7317 new feature, P5 - low, ---, alex.sassmannshausen, Needs Signoff , Add an Interlibrary Loan Module to Circulation and OPAC
11:17 magnuse oha and i are collaborating on the NNCIPP code :-)
11:18 oha atheia: no experience, but i was working with magnuse on making it run
11:18 atheia Oooh yeah, nice!
11:18 oha i haven't applied any new patches
11:18 atheia oha++ :-)
11:18 magnuse yeah oha++
11:18 oha magnuse: is doing most of it
11:18 oha i'm just the whip here!
11:19 * magnuse hopes to offload as much as possible on oha ;-)
11:19 atheia haha, division of labour battles :-)
11:20 magnuse atheia: problem in one of you latest patches, commit c3d2dea178bad510116ffbd96b83942b13facf10
11:20 magnuse you did "+use Koha::Illrequest;" in Koha/
11:21 oha i'm actually having some problems here, will fix and get back
11:21 magnuse it should be "+use Koha::IllrequestS;", if i am not mistaken
11:22 Joubu singulars should not use plurals
11:23 atheia magnuse: sorry, don't have that commit reference (we might have a different master branch that we applied the patches to)  What's the patch on bugzilla? Or alternatively, file and line?
11:23 magnuse ah, sorry
11:24 magnuse atheia: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]ment.cgi?id=63090
11:25 magnuse i'm seeing: Can't locate object method "search" via package "Koha::Illrequests" (perhaps you forgot to load "Koha::Illrequests"?)
11:25 magnuse Joubu: really?
11:25 wahanui really is more trouble than she's worth.
11:26 * magnuse thought that was druthb_away ;-)
11:26 Joubu I do not look at the code, so hard to say
11:26 atheia omg, you are totally right! that is a definite mistake.
11:26 dcook All right. I better go home. 9:26pm is too late to stuff at the office.
11:26 * dcook waves
11:27 Joubu kidclamp_away: really away? (you submit patches!)
11:27 magnuse happy hunting dcook!
11:27 atheia Ah Joubu, so you are saying that a Koha/Illrequest should not have a "use Koha::Illrequests"?
11:27 atheia What's the reason?
11:27 wahanui i think the reason is i want to relearn about koha 3.2
11:27 atheia magnuse, does adding the s fix the error?
11:29 magnuse yup
11:29 Joubu atheia: plural needs singular
11:29 Joubu if you use plural from singular you are adding a circ deps
11:29 Joubu from pl, the plurals must be used, even if you are only using singular
11:31 atheia You're right… there would be circular dep.
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11:32 atheia magnuse: I'm not even able to reproduce the error… what file is causing the error for you? Is it the NNCIPP backend file?
11:32 atheia (i.e. are you able to use the module when not using the NNCIP backend?
11:32 atheia )
11:32 magnuse ah, maybe i'm doing something wrong
11:32 magnuse it's in NCIPServer - a separate project
11:33 magnuse where i "use Koha::Illrequest;" - maybe i should use the plural?
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11:34 atheia Yeah, try importing both there and see if it works then.
11:34 Joubu jajm: around?
11:34 magnuse i changed my code to "use Koha::Illrequests;" and removed the whole "use Koha::Illrequests;" line from and it works!
11:35 jajm Joubu, hi
11:35 Joubu jajm: you pushed 17818 to 3.22, but it was marked as dup as 17817 that is not in 3.22
11:35 Joubu why did not you push 17817 then? :)
11:36 atheia Ah neat :-)
11:36 atheia So I can probably revert that commit in the next rebase.
11:36 jajm Joubu, 17817 depends on 13501 (enh) that is not in 3.22.x
11:37 magnuse atheia: looks like it :-)
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11:39 Joubu jajm: hum ok. There is something weird (2 bug reports opened at the same time for 2 different bug very close bugs) but I do not want to look at this code anymore :p
11:39 jajm Joubu, and they're not really duplicates according to comments, 17817 is about a JS error while 17818's error happen after saving record
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11:42 Joubu yep, sorry :) Too many bugs with the ~same title at the same time
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11:48 oleonard Happy GBSD, #koha
11:48 jajm Joubu, about bug 18066 (Hea v2), this is clearly an enhancement but you said "this is ready to be backported". Will hea stop working without these patches ?
11:48 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18066 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Hea - Version 2
11:49 Joubu nope
11:49 Joubu but we need to collect new info
11:49 Joubu We need it in all stable releases
11:49 Joubu and really would like it into the last 3.22.x
11:49 Joubu but you are the boss ;)
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11:51 jajm ok, i hope this will apply cleanly :)
11:54 Joubu it will, or very small conflict
11:57 atheia oleonard happy GBSD! :-)
11:57 atheia btw, if anyone has a specific bug they want me to look at, feel free to poke me! In the meantime, I'll be poking around bugzilla in general.
11:57 * oleonard too ^^
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12:01 Joubu atheia:
12:02 Joubu And of course the link is wrong, the sort should be on severity
12:02 Joubu but the bug list is correct
12:03 Joubu I have also shared a new bz search "Patches for GBSD" you can add to your footer
12:03 atheia aha, amazing — cheers Joubu!  (This is why you were voted RM :-D )
12:04 oleonard I thought it was the bribes (oops, I wasn't supposed to mention the bribes)
12:05 Joubu if a QAer is familier with course reserve, please take a look at bug 10382
12:05 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10382 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Signed Off , collection not returning to null when removed from course reserves
12:05 Joubu oleonard: no you was not...
12:05 magnuse atheia: new problem, the NNCIPP requests are still not displayin. the api gives a 500. i see this in the koha error log: DBIC result _type  isn't of the _type Borrower at /home/vagrant/kohaclone/Ko​ha/REST/V1/ line 50., referer: http://localhost:8081/cgi-bin/[…]l/
12:05 magnuse does that ring any bells?
12:06 Joubu magnuse: check the Koha::Singular->_type
12:07 kidclamp I am back now Joubu
12:07 atheia That suggest that the data stored in the db for the borower column is not a valid borrwernumber…
12:08 atheia (is my first intuition)
12:08 magnuse Koha::Singular?
12:08 atheia Would you be able to manually verify the borrowernumber associated with the request by selecting for it in the borrowers table?
12:08 magnuse ah, the borrowernumber is indeed null
12:09 oha atheia: i have 2 local patches for ILL here, from some weeks ago. one is the "use Koha::Illrequests" you already know, another is adding a check on row.metadata in around lines 36 and 45
12:09 magnuse great intuition!
12:09 atheia Right, I think unfortunately we couldn't enforce db integrity with a constraint there because it is in theory possible at some points for a request to not have a borrower.
12:09 magnuse yup
12:09 barton happy GBSD, #koha!
12:09 magnuse makes sense
12:09 atheia So unfortunately that constraint has to be enforced in code (i.e. Backends).
12:10 magnuse the good old "foreign key or null data type"
12:10 atheia lol yeah that's it :-)
12:10 * ashimema sets up a fake record for those sorts of things now ;)
12:10 magnuse so then  just have to figure out why the borrowernumber is null. that is my faul, though
12:10 atheia oha: interesting. I think magnuse and I just decided the use Koha::Illrequests; might not be necessary (it's in koha::Illrequest right?).
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12:11 magnuse oha: yeah, we should be use'ing Koha::Illrequests, not the singular of that
12:11 atheia ashimema interesting idea — so we might have a dummy patron record that we use in the scenarios where patron would otherwise be null, and then use db constraints?
12:12 atheia The other patch sounds sensible.  Any chance you could paste it somewhere or upload it to the bug for discussion?
12:12 Joubu Sounds like it is more ILLD than GBSD :D
12:12 magnuse sorry about that
12:12 oha atheia: i had to add it, or it wouldn't work. can't remember why
12:12 magnuse working on future bugs ;-)
12:13 oha atheia, magnuse: yes, in Koha/
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12:15 Joubu kidclamp: I let you a note on the bug, but I do not know if it is understandable...
12:15 atheia OK, because Joubu pointed out the issue with circular deps (illrequest would depend on illrequests and illrequests on illrequest), I would like to avoid it.  Could you try loading illrequests in the pl or pm that you develop to see if it solves the problem?
12:15 atheia I may have to move the procedure in that uses illrequests->search… :-/
12:16 kidclamp understandable Joubu - just either needs someone who speaks better english than I, or a much longer note in a modal or something
12:16 magnuse atheia: if i do use Koha::Illrequests; in my .pm it works
12:17 oha atheia: yes, makes sense. I haven't patched mine with your latest changes, will do a new round without my fixes and give you feedback then, it will make more sense then
12:17 magnuse (and if i supply a valid cardnumber *facepalm*)
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12:21 atheia oha cheers!
12:25 Joubu Everybody read[…]k_force_Koha_1711 right?
12:26 marcelr Joubu: i do not really understand what you are going to//
12:27 Joubu hum?
12:28 marcelr what is the goal of this task force?
12:33 alreadygone joined #koha
12:33 Joubu please re-read the proposal
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12:37 tcohen morning
12:37 marcelr hi tcohen
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12:42 josef_moravec_ Joubu++
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13:01 tcohen Joubu?
13:01 wahanui rumour has it Joubu is not sure how to fix that correctly
13:02 LibraryClaire1 joined #koha
13:02 kidclamp meeting time!
13:02 wahanui meeting time is, like, always going to favour one section of the globe
13:02 Joubu yep
13:02 barton ^^ this is why we shouldn't listen to rumors... Joubu *always* knows how to fix it correctly ;-)
13:03 Joubu it depends if it is related to acq...
13:03 barton Joubu++
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13:04 kidclamp #startmeeting Special Meeting for Koha Task Force Proposal
13:04 huginn_ Meeting started Wed May 10 13:04:20 2017 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at
13:04 huginn_ Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:04 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Special Meeting for Koha Task Force Proposal)
13:04 huginn_ The meeting name has been set to 'special_meeting_for_koha_task_force_proposal'
13:04 kidclamp #topic Introuductions
13:04 Topic for #koha is now Introuductions (Meeting topic: Special Meeting for Koha Task Force Proposal)
13:04 kidclamp #topic Introductions
13:04 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
13:04 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Special Meeting for Koha Task Force Proposal)
13:04 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
13:04 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi
13:04 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWaterSolutions
13:04 khall #info Kyle M  Hall, ByWater Solutios
13:04 barton #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville KY
13:04 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
13:05 LibraryClaire1 #info Claire Gravely, BSZ, Germany
13:05 atheia #info Alex Sassmannshausen, PTFS Europe, Brussels
13:05 Joubu ok
13:05 Joubu will try to be quick, do not need to talk about that for hours
13:05 Joubu the link is[…]k_force_Koha_1711
13:06 Joubu I hope everybody took a look :)
13:06 Joubu The goal of the emails is to
13:06 kidclamp #topic Koha Taskforce Proposal
13:06 Topic for #koha is now Koha Taskforce Proposal (Meeting topic: Special Meeting for Koha Task Force Proposal)
13:06 Joubu 1. build a task force to
13:06 Joubu a. Who is available for the next 6 months, how much time?
13:06 kidclamp #link[…]k_force_Koha_1711 Proposed emails
13:06 Joubu b. recruit new contributors
13:06 josef_moravec_ #info Josef Moravec, Municipal library Ústí nad Orlicí
13:06 Joubu c. Tell (again) people we are ready to help anybody willing to be involved
13:07 Joubu and also to
13:07 Joubu 2. know the needs/goals/expectations of everyone to
13:07 Joubu a. write the goals for the next release
13:07 Joubu b. make people with the same needs working together
13:07 Joubu c. coordinate and assign tasks
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13:07 jajm #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre
13:07 talljoy #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions
13:07 Joubu With this meeting I'd like to make sure everybody more or less agrees on the wording and the "method"
13:08 Joubu I see at least 3 questions:
13:08 francharb #info Francois Charbonnier inlibro
13:08 oleonard #info Owen Leonard Athens County Public Libraries, USA
13:08 blou #info Philippe Blouin, Solutions inLibro
13:08 Joubu 1. What would be a good email subject to catch people's attention?
13:08 Joubu 2. Please read up to the end
13:08 Joubu 3. Send email to mailing list contributors? or just the ML?
13:08 Joubu The goal was to customize the email to make it more "attractive"?
13:08 Joubu your turn :)
13:08 cbeebie joined #koha
13:09 tcohen I'm not sure it will work, but it is certaintly something we can try
13:10 kellym joined #koha
13:10 tcohen also, it is not a bad idea for a RM to know what is the minimum
13:10 barton I'm definitely willing to give it the good-old-college try.
13:10 tcohen help they can have
13:11 khall I also don't know if it will have much success but I don't think it'll hurt. I think targeting companies and independent devs will yield the greatest results, but this has no cost so it can't hurt!
13:11 Joubu what will not work?
13:11 talljoy i think that it is a bit vague.
13:11 khall getting mailing listers to volunteer time
13:11 talljoy if you want to reach non contributors, perhaps outlining some specifics?
13:11 talljoy - test patches (1 hour week)
13:12 talljoy - engage in meetings (2 hour month)
13:12 talljoy etc?
13:12 khall I'm sure we could set up some workshops for how to test patches
13:12 khall using kohadevbox or a vm of some kind
13:12 atheia I think it is worth the RM knowing to what extent new people might be interested to help but feel intimidated.  The RM can then try to create coaching infrastructure if there is sufficient interest…
13:12 talljoy i don't (generally) like to sign up for a task force with unknown duties/actions
13:12 kidclamp I think if the goal is to collect names/contact and then specifically send individual requests for help may be effective - can YOU help with this vs. can ANYONE help with this
13:12 josef_moravec_ joined #koha
13:12 tcohen kidclamp is right
13:13 khall I think kidclamp is right, a email sent to the mailing list is more likely to be ignored
13:13 talljoy yes that ^
13:13 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
13:13 fridolin #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre, France
13:13 tcohen my doubt was about companies
13:14 Joubu As I said there are several goals. The main one is to get the "core team", the existing one, but with number of hours available, needs, etc.
13:14 NateC joined #koha
13:14 Joubu Then the "new contributors"
13:14 cait i would not send emai to contributors
13:14 fridolin for me the RM can use my buisiness email adresse when needed, no pb
13:14 cait but that might be a german thing - they have not 'opted in' to receive emails from us
13:15 Joubu patch contributors or ML contributors?
13:15 cait for mailing list... might be more expected, but still appears a bit odd (sorry have not quite finished reading back)
13:15 cait patch contribs mostly
13:16 Joubu For patch contributors, It's 50 persons, we know almost all of them basicall
13:16 LibraryClaire I would be cautious of sending it to mailing list contributors directly as if they aren't expecting mails in this way it may discourage from contributing more
13:16 cait would have thought the list is a big longer
13:16 cait with academy students etc
13:17 drojf joined #koha
13:17 tcohen I respectfuly disagree, I think knowing the RM adn the team are interested on their contributions would be encouraging
13:17 Joubu "patch contributors" are contributors than do not have an @ with the company url in it
13:18 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany
13:18 khall LibraryClaire has a point that had ocurred to me. Some people may be a bit offended by that use of mailing list emails
13:18 Joubu is not listed as a patch contributor, because his boss will receive the mail
13:19 cait I like the idea, but it might be difficult to get people to fill out a form
13:19 agoforth joined #koha
13:19 cait it depends on who you target
13:19 Joubu I do not force anybody, if they do not, they do not
13:19 cait the devs will understand the technical list of goals, mailing lit people probably won't
13:20 cait or a much smaller part of them
13:20 kidclamp I think we can discuss effectiveness a lot, I think we just need to decide should we send the emails? then answer wording questions
13:20 Joubu I target: 1. regular devs (for the "task force") - task assignement, goal definition, etc.
13:20 cait signing up for hours might also be difficult for some, depending on where you work etc.
13:20 cbeebie joined #koha
13:20 Joubu and 2. new contributor: "I want to help but do not know when/what/how"
13:20 talljoy cait then they sign up for 0-1 hours
13:20 khall Joubu: sounds good
13:20 Joubu other: "Koha rocks, but I'd like it to do that"
13:21 Joubu "I do not have time, but please do it"
13:21 cbeebie left #koha
13:21 reiveune joined #koha
13:21 talljoy to riff on what kidclamp says, if we don't do this, we don't get new people.  It may be effective in the end.
13:21 talljoy but it may not be and then we know not to do it again.  :D
13:21 Joubu The goal is not to do it every month/year
13:22 Joubu it's a one shoot
13:22 chrisbrown joined #koha
13:22 Joubu that's why I do not think it will hurt to contact people once
13:22 oleonard I don't think we should ask people to "sign up" for hours but maybe "pledge" hours.
13:22 alex_a joined #koha
13:22 kidclamp oleonard++
13:22 ashimema ooh..
13:22 talljoy things that are 'effective' often get tried again and again.
13:22 * ashimema reads back
13:22 Joubu the number of hours is just to get an idea
13:23 Joubu I will not track anybody :)
13:23 Joubu just 'ok for 1h/week' is not the same as 'more or less 30h/month'
13:23 LibraryClaire would it be an idea to 'offer' introductions to different basics or suggest some Q&A times that people could "attend" if interested? that may seem less intimidating for a general mailing list message
13:23 atheia Yeah, I reckon we might have to send emails to support companies & the mailing list only — then add a field in the form asking people whether they would be happy to be contacted for this kind of initiative.
13:24 Joubu LibraryClaire: Q&A about what?
13:25 Joubu patch contribution, signoff?
13:25 Joubu setup a devbox?
13:25 talljoy yes that kind of thing
13:25 Joubu or less technical you meant?
13:25 atheia LibraryClaire I think that would be super awesome, but I think it would make sense to organise that because we know there is an interest in particular subjects — rather than having open sessions that may well not always be attended.
13:25 talljoy and even how to write documentation
13:25 cait1 joined #koha
13:25 Joubu ok, I have something in mind, I will dev a kind of "how to"
13:25 Joubu a tutorial to write a patch correctly, following the coding guidelines, send a patch, signoff
13:25 LibraryClaire1 joined #koha
13:26 LibraryClaire1 sorry pidgin hates me today
13:26 Joubu with some script checking that the new dev is doing correct things
13:26 khall Joubu: i think greatly expanding the sandboxes may help with that. I've been thinking about creating a new sandbox archtecture if you are interested in that
13:26 talljoy you and cait both!  welcome back LibraryClaire1
13:26 LibraryClaire1 Joubu, yes intro to sandboxes etc, bugzilla etc
13:26 LibraryClaire1 atheia, yes I agree it would require some coordination/volunteer for a topic
13:26 LibraryClaire1 perhaps for further down the line then
13:27 Joubu khall: yes sure
13:27 Joubu The point is not "how to help new contributors", but "how to find them" ;)
13:27 kidclamp #info Khall is interested in creating a new sandbox structure to make patch testing even easier
13:27 Joubu I have ideas about the "how to help them", but that is another topic
13:28 kidclamp #info Suggestion to hold "Q&A" sessions in the future for Sing-Offs, Dev, etc to help get people started
13:28 LibraryClaire1 Joubu, yes, but I was thinking if people had something concrete to sign up to or "attend" it might make it easier
13:28 LibraryClaire1 it might not :)
13:28 atheia Joubu, right and I think that cannot be fully automated, which is why I am in favour of creating 'points of contact' for people, like with this form that you are proposing…
13:28 cait1 maybe a mentoring thing?
13:28 cait1 someone who will answer questions by email etc.
13:28 talljoy ooooo  i like that
13:28 * talljoy claims khall
13:28 atheia cait1 yeah, mentoring is absolutely great!
13:28 talljoy :D
13:28 talljoy as mentor, not mentee
13:29 kidclamp I think these are all great ideas, in the interest of keeping things on track I think we should focus on the emails and the content
13:29 khall : )
13:29 Joubu yes please :)
13:29 kidclamp #info proposal of possible mentor mentee relationships
13:29 khall excellent idea
13:29 Joubu It's going too far, good to have ideas btw
13:29 cait1 #idea mentoring program for koha newbies
13:30 kidclamp so first question is who do we send to? support companies and patch contribs seem agreed - mailing list or individuals is the question?
13:30 talljoy i would send to the mailing list.
13:30 LibraryClaire1 I would prefer it to be sent to the mailing list in general rather than target individuals from the list
13:31 ashimema I would say 'companies' and 'mailing list'.. but not individuals
13:31 Joubu nobody answers when it is not targetted
13:31 evantill joined #koha
13:31 Joubu Even individual patch contributors?
13:31 cait1 companies and mailing list are good for me
13:32 atheia companies and mailing lists
13:32 LibraryClaire1 could companies pass it on to their clients/partners?
13:32 ashimema mmm, I know where your trying to come from Joubu.. but I think as cait has highlighted hitting contributors directly could be seen as a bit too much
13:32 Joubu I have the list in front of me, and the list in "patch contributors" are almost all known people
13:32 Joubu LibraryClaire: ofc
13:32 ashimema and actually discourage further involvement.
13:32 deb-CSPL joined #koha
13:32 LibraryClaire ashimema ^this was my concern
13:33 kidclamp I am leaning towards mailing list and companies
13:33 Joubu patch contributors: oleonard, martin,,,, gonzalez, cnighswonger, cbrannon, etc.
13:33 Joubu mixing domains and names
13:34 talljoy is there a way to curate that list?
13:34 ashimema I've been reading and re-reading the proposed mail too.. I think it's a bit too verbose right now.. it needs a clear 'call to action' (i.e. please fill out this survey) with a clear reason why you should.. but in as few words as possibly really
13:34 Joubu I can remove the one I do not know if you want
13:34 josef_moravec_ I am of companies, patch contributors, mailing list
13:34 talljoy perhaps that ^
13:35 talljoy send email to individual contributors from the last two versions?  or contributors who submitted X number of patches?
13:35 talljoy but chances are those folks are going to contribute no matter what.
13:35 talljoy so probably a moot point
13:35 kidclamp if the patch contrib list is mostly known, are they our target audience and/or can't we reach out individually versus a blast email?
13:36 tcohen when I served as RM, I never had a negative feedback when approaching individuals offering help or mentoring
13:36 Joubu talljoy: yes I can
13:37 tcohen I think the problem is making it "official"
13:38 cait1 i think the difference is "automated email" to personal email
13:38 cait1 if you write them personally, people are more likely to respond
13:38 kidclamp I would like to call vote at 9:40, final thoughts?
13:38 Joubu that is the idea
13:38 ashimema I'd also 'make it public'.. there are people watching #kohails on twitter, or bywaters blog for example.. would be good to catch those with a post too
13:38 Joubu I will "personalize" (a bit) the email
13:38 cait1 using scripts or manually? ;)
13:39 Joubu both
13:39 cait1 :)
13:39 Joubu But... I do not know the point, there is no difference
13:39 Joubu see*
13:40 kidclamp I think we are suggesting actual personal emails or irc conversations
13:40 Joubu Really the patch contributor list is not a big deal
13:40 kidclamp not 'automated personal'
13:40 Joubu and it is where we can find people for contributions
13:41 kidclamp #startvote Should we send an email to the maling list and suport companies calling for a koha taskforce as proposed by jonathan? Yes, No
13:41 huginn_ Begin voting on: Should we send an email to the maling list and suport companies calling for a koha taskforce as proposed by jonathan? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
13:41 huginn_ Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
13:41 kidclamp #vote Yes
13:41 tcohen #vote Yes
13:42 barton #vote Yes
13:42 talljoy #vote yes
13:42 josef_moravec_ #vote Yes
13:42 atheia #vote yes
13:42 LibraryClaire #vote yes
13:42 cait1 #vote yes
13:42 drojf #vote yes
13:43 kidclamp last call
13:43 oleonard #vote yes
13:43 ashimema #vote yes
13:43 kidclamp #endvote
13:43 huginn_ Voted on "Should we send an email to the maling list and suport companies calling for a koha taskforce as proposed by jonathan?" Results are
13:43 huginn_ Yes (11): LibraryClaire, cait1, oleonard, ashimema, atheia, barton, josef_moravec_, kidclamp, tcohen, talljoy, drojf
13:45 kidclamp #startvote Should we send an blanket email to the patch contributors calling for a koha taskforce as proposed by jonathan or should send personal messages to those individuals? blanket, personal
13:45 huginn_ Begin voting on: Should we send an blanket email to the patch contributors calling for a koha taskforce as proposed by jonathan or should send personal messages to those individuals? Valid vote options are blanket, personal.
13:45 huginn_ Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
13:45 kidclamp #vote personal
13:45 oleonard #vote personal
13:45 tcohen #vote personal
13:45 talljoy #vote blanket
13:46 Joubu I repeat: the contributor list is very small, I am going to check the participation of the contributor (number of contributions + Q or A on ML)
13:46 josef_moravec_ #vote personal
13:46 barton #vote personal
13:46 kidclamp if small personal should not be so bad, and they are more liely to read respond to list in general IO would say
13:47 kidclamp last call
13:47 cait1 #vote personal
13:47 atheia #vote personal
13:47 LibraryClaire #vote personal
13:47 kidclamp #endvote
13:47 huginn_ Voted on "Should we send an blanket email to the patch contributors calling for a koha taskforce as proposed by jonathan or should send personal messages to those individuals?" Results are
13:47 huginn_ personal (8): LibraryClaire, cait1, oleonard, atheia, barton, josef_moravec_, kidclamp, tcohen
13:47 huginn_ blanket (1): talljoy
13:48 kidclamp #agreed Joubu will send a blanket email to support providers and mailing list and reach out to contributors personally
13:48 talljoy really?
13:48 wahanui i heard really was more trouble than she's worth.
13:48 talljoy check that language kidclamp
13:48 talljoy oh sorry
13:48 talljoy ignore me
13:48 * kidclamp ignores talljoy at his own peril
13:48 talljoy HA
13:49 kidclamp okay
13:49 kidclamp #topic What would be a good email subject to catch people's attention?
13:49 Topic for #koha is now What would be a good email subject to catch people's attention? (Meeting topic: Special Meeting for Koha Task Force Proposal)
13:49 LibraryClaire free cake
13:49 talljoy COOKIES
13:50 kidclamp 5 minutes for this and next topic, we all have another meeting today :-)
13:50 tcohen "Hi there"
13:50 talljoy 17.05 Task Force
13:50 Joubu There is : "Call for volunteers for the next Koha release"
13:50 Joubu "Harvesting contributions for the next Koha release"
13:51 * talljoy protects her kidneys
13:51 Joubu I think we need to add a " + Update on your company" for support providers
13:51 * ashimema really feels there's two things in this survey
13:51 atheia agreed.
13:51 atheia i meant with Juobu's statement.
13:51 atheia Don't know about ashimema's yet :-)
13:51 ashimema 1) Getting volunteers
13:51 ashimema 2) Steering where koha goes next
13:52 ashimema as such I'm not confident on a 'tag line'
13:52 Joubu Maybe "KOHA PROBLEM - HELP!"
13:53 ashimema lol
13:53 talljoy haha
13:53 tcohen "Look at my sexy pics"
13:53 talljoy direct approach often is best "Call for volunteers......" unless you want to trick them
13:53 talljoy ala tcohen's approach
13:53 * oleonard agrees with talljoy
13:53 Joubu ashimema: We want to collect info for both at the same time
13:53 Joubu to not sent 2 emails :)
13:53 * barton likes 'Call for volunteers...'
13:54 LibraryClaire I like call for volunteers - at laeast for the mailing list ones
13:54 Joubu and to get attention only once
13:54 kidclamp call_for_volunteers++
13:54 atheia Yeah, I'm also in favour of 'call for volunteers...'  for the mailing list one.
13:54 tcohen +1
13:54 ashimema but you're not 'calling for volunteers' at all when it comes to 'Tasks you wuld like to see moving forward but can't help with'..
13:54 ashimema ok.. I am overruled
13:55 kidclamp ashimema: point taken, but I think it doesn't fully come into play until we act on those suggestions
13:55 atheia the support company one could be 'Your listing as paid support company for Koha + contributing to Koha'
13:55 josef_moravec_ "call for volunteers - help to make Koha even better"
13:55 ashimema well I personally think you'd catch more people if you split them and linked between
13:56 cait1 small bites
13:56 ashimema i.e. a focused approach suggesting you can help and here's how.. and a focused approach saying 'you can give direction to the project and here's how'
13:56 talljoy isn't this a rehash of what we already decided above?
13:56 ashimema then you get some people click on one and think.. oh.. I could do the other too
13:57 LibraryClaire well there would be scope for a whole other mail about how people want to see koha improve but that's maybe another level altogether. So I still go with call for volunteers :)
13:57 talljoy kidclamp are we off topic?
13:57 ashimema rather than people going 'they're looking for volunteers.. I can't be bothered to answer that then'
13:57 kidclamp I was trying to decide :-)
13:57 * LibraryClaire is always off topic
13:57 talljoy if the topic is email subject we most definitely are.
13:57 kidclamp do we need to vote, I think 'call for volunteers' is generally approved, but martin's points are acknowledged
13:58 ashimema ok
13:58 ashimema I'm happy with that
13:58 kellym joined #koha
13:58 atheia 'Koha dev priorities + call for volunteers'
13:58 LibraryClaire keep it as simple as possible
13:58 Joubu just need to tell it at the beginning of the email "fill the form to tell us what you want"
13:58 kidclamp #agreed Subject line roughly 'call for volunteers'
13:59 atheia yeah
13:59 kidclamp #topic phrasing for support company emial 'Please read up to the end'
13:59 Topic for #koha is now phrasing for support company emial 'Please read up to the end' (Meeting topic: Special Meeting for Koha Task Force Proposal)
14:00 kidclamp I think this just boils down to frontloading the request to update/acknowledge or saying if you didn't read to the end you aren't really supporting koha :-)
14:01 kidclamp anyone have strong thoughts here?
14:01 chrisbrown joined #koha
14:01 talljoy well, i wouldn't say it like that...
14:01 LibraryClaire I am unsure of the phrasing
14:02 talljoy i think a simple "please read to end and contribute to the direction of Koha"
14:02 talljoy would suffice
14:02 cait1 sounds better
14:03 atheia the key problem, I think, is that the template suggests that a company not responding to the email would lose their listing on the paid support company listing.
14:03 ashimema I'd keep it shorter as a whole so reading to the end is simply a matter of reading one line or a short single paragraph
14:03 ashimema to the point
14:03 chrisbrown Hi, is this the right place to ask a (fairly) newbie question? It's about deleting a bibliographic framework
14:03 cait1 chrisbrown: we are in a meeting atm - can you come back a bit later?
14:03 cait1 and yes, it is :)
14:03 atheia So if you have that line far down, and no information that that will be a consequence early on, it might be a little 'unfair' to companies that don't bother to read :-)
14:03 kidclamp hi chrisbrown, this is the right place - we are in a meeting so might get a bit muddle but shoudl eb done shortl;y
14:03 Joubu ashimema: actually, I forgot something: I wanted to translate the email (for ES and FR at leat)
14:04 chrisbrown sure I'll stop by later
14:04 Joubu So the content of the form would be in the email, but translated
14:04 Joubu the other solution would be to create 1 form per lang, but... no :)
14:04 cait1 there is a koha-de mailing list, if you want to do that too
14:04 reiveune joined #koha
14:04 Joubu Or we just assume that everybody reads English...
14:05 kidclamp I think thta is a topic shift :-)
14:05 Joubu or a short "common" email, than a translated part for ES, FR
14:05 barton Joubu: I think it's worth the extra effort to translate...
14:05 Joubu then*
14:05 cait1 as most of our documentation is english it hink it might be hard atm to contribute otherwise
14:05 * tcohen volunteers for spanish
14:06 cait1 we can do German
14:06 LibraryClaire *we*
14:06 kidclamp maybe support companeis should be two emails? 1 - verify yourself 2 - call for volunteers?
14:06 Joubu ok, let's get a simple version for email, then a longer one to put on the form (translated for ES, FR, DE, ? to put in the emails)
14:07 fridolin left #koha
14:07 cait1 i think better avoid long text on the top of the form
14:07 cait1 it scares people off
14:07 cait1 at least me usually :)
14:08 cait1 if theere is not really more facts that a longer version would have, kepe it short
14:08 Joubu ok but... I need to explain what's the point of the form, no?
14:08 Joubu it scares people if it is in the email and if it is in the form :)
14:09 Joubu ok, too long, sorry about that
14:09 Joubu I think we should end the meeting
14:10 kidclamp I tihnk we agreed on call for update/confirmation of the support companies in the beginning of the email
14:10 kidclamp instead of 'please readall'
14:10 Joubu I will rework with people interesting in it, then come back
14:10 ashimema :)
14:10 kidclamp okay, happy to end if you feel good Joubu
14:10 LibraryClaire Joubu++
14:10 Joubu kidclamp: yep ok
14:10 * ashimema needs to go get kids from school
14:10 kidclamp we voted to send the emials, so send em
14:10 * LibraryClaire needs tea
14:10 barton Joubu++
14:10 kidclamp #endmeeting
14:10 * ashimema and it's swimming night.. so I'll be gone a couple of hours
14:10 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the #koha IRC chat | Code of conduct -[…]/code-of-conduct/ | Please use for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is
14:10 huginn_ Meeting ended Wed May 10 14:10:56 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
14:10 huginn_ Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-05-10-13.04.html
14:10 huginn_ Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]7-05-10-13.04.txt
14:10 huginn_ Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-13.04.log.html
14:10 * Joubu needs mate
14:11 talljoy that ending seemed so ... sudden
14:11 LibraryClaire kidclamp++
14:11 * kidclamp shushes talljoy
14:11 oleonard kidclamp++
14:11 oleonard Joubu++
14:11 Joubu For people interested in continuing, let's continue on the pad. There is a chat and you can comment
14:11 talljoy kidclamp++
14:11 atheia kidclamp++
14:11 talljoy joubu++
14:11 Joubu thankds everybody
14:11 atheia Joubu++
14:11 kidclamp joubu++
14:11 oleonard Hi eythian
14:11 wahanui oleonard++
14:11 oleonard :)
14:11 Joubu koha++ :)
14:11 LibraryClaire Hi eythian
14:11 wahanui LibraryClaire++
14:12 LibraryClaire wahanui botsnack
14:12 wahanui thanks LibraryClaire :)
14:12 kholt joined #koha
14:12 * barton goes for post meeting coffee...
14:13 tcohen Joubu++
14:24 evantill joined #koha
14:24 chrisbrown Hi, I have a rather basic question about deleting a MARC framework using Koha 16.11. Playing with the system to familiarise, I have created a couple of MARC frameworks that I would now like to delete. Koha complains with the message "This framework cannot be deleted" / "The Framework is used 3 times". What does this message mean, and how would I find out what the framework is used by?
14:26 kidclamp It means there are biblios using that framework
14:26 oleonard It means you have cataloged 3 records using that framework
14:26 chrisbrown ok so how would i find which 3?
14:27 kidclamp SELECT * FROM biblios WHERE frameworkcode=<<Enter framework code>>
14:27 kidclamp in the reports module
14:27 kidclamp SELECT * FROM biblio WHERE frameworkcode=<<Enter framework code>>
14:28 chrisbrown OK that's a bit outside my comfort zone but I'll give it a try ... thanks!
14:29 oleonard It would be nice if that error message included a link to those results
14:29 cait1 oleonard: the field is not indexed, not sure how to bulid the result list
14:29 cait1 not sure, but thought it was not in the marc record
14:31 chrisbrown OK I am looking at the Reports screen but I need a bit more of a prompt on where to go now. Do I use "create report from SQL"?
14:32 oleonard Yes
14:32 chrisbrown ok thanks
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14:51 chrisbrown oleonard - the SQL query worked. Would it be safe to remove the offending records in a similar way?
14:52 chrisbrown i.e. DELETE FROM biblios WHERE ...
14:52 chrisbrown or would that break something?
14:52 oleonard It would be better to use batch record deletion or delete them individually.
14:52 oleonard Or you could edit the records and change the framework.
14:53 oleonard biblio data is stored across several tables so it isn't recommended to do it via SQL
14:54 chrisbrown ok thanks -- good learning experience, this!
14:54 cait1 chrisbrown: also the reports only allow SELECT :)
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15:14 oleonard I get an error if I try to add a suggestion anonymously in the OPAC. Does anyone know offhand if there's a bug for that?
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15:16 reiveune bye
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15:17 LibraryClaire oleonard I just got a software error too
15:17 TGoat joined #koha
15:17 LibraryClaire dunno if it's been reported already though
15:17 kidclamp no no, guys, SQUASH the bugs, not find them :-)
15:18 evantill joined #koha
15:19 tcohen what is giving software error?
15:20 LibraryClaire ooh no mine worked now
15:20 LibraryClaire there was an issue with my anonymous patron
15:20 Joubu about page should tell you if the anonymous patron is correctly defined
15:21 LibraryClaire ignore me, I'm being a monkey
15:22 * kidclamp hands Claire a banana
15:22 evantill joined #koha
15:22 * LibraryClaire writes shakespeare
15:23 oleonard Joubu: Where does it do that?
15:24 Joubu oleonard: > system info tab
15:24 Joubu if nothing is displayed about the anon patron, it should be ok
15:25 khall joined #koha
15:25 oleonard I have no borrowernumber in  AnonymousPatron and it doesn't show me a warning
15:27 oleonard Looks like it only warns you about the anonymous patron if you have a privacy setting defined somewhere
15:27 oleonard Even with a valid anonymous patron I still get "Template process failed: undef error - The method default is not covered by tests! at /home/vagrant/kohaclone/C4/ line 121." from
15:30 LibraryClaire left #koha
15:30 Joubu oleonard: please open a bug report and assign it to me
15:30 TGoat left #koha
15:31 Joubu Anybody is willing to translate the email into something else than FR, ES, DE?
15:31 Joubu and EN...
15:44 oleonard Bug 18568 is spam
15:44 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18568 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, NEW , blog
15:44 tcohen ey, don't be rude to my bugs
15:45 tcohen who can delete it?
15:45 tcohen cait?
15:45 wahanui cait is the best friend you could ever have.
15:49 Joubu @later tell rangi please delete 18568
15:49 huginn_ Joubu: The operation succeeded.
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16:40 barton I'm not sure if this is a bug or a design decision: bug 18575
16:40 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18575 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , QueryFuzzy not enabled for Title search in Zebra
17:10 cait joined #koha
17:24 * kidclamp clamp clamp clamp
17:27 jmsasse kidclamp: formerly known as WnickC?
17:28 * kidclamp didn't clamp WNickC - who suggested that? show me the body!
17:28 jmsasse ummm...
17:28 * kidclamp unclamps
17:29 kidclamp hi jmsasse
17:29 jmsasse Hello.
17:37 magnuse tcohen++ for looking after kohadevbox
17:38 magnuse bag around?
17:38 tubaclarinet joined #koha
17:39 tubaclarinet Hello everyone; I heard that today is a bug squashing day, yes?
17:39 tcohen indeed, tubaclarinet
17:40 tubaclarinet tcohen: thanks
17:41 tubaclarinet Please forgive me if someone else has already asked this question, but have any of you looked at bug #18478?
17:41 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18478 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, RESOLVED WORKSFORME, Hold Notices sent via SMS gateway fail
17:42 tubaclarinet We discussed this bug at today's Koha-US meeting & someone suggested that it could be looked at here during the bug squashing day
17:54 Joubu tubaclarinet: What is the question?
17:54 wahanui the question is, like, "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?"
17:57 tubaclarinet Joubu: I just refreshed my browser on this bug's webpage & it looks like Kyle said that it is a configuration problem rather than a bug...
17:58 tubaclarinet khall: what was the problem with the configuration of Koha on bug #18478?
17:58 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18478 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, REOPENED , Hold Notices sent via SMS gateway fail
17:59 kidclamp tubaclarinet, we were looking at the wrong site
17:59 kidclamp seems to be a valid bug - the address is not passed through for hold notices
17:59 khall1 joined #koha
17:59 khall1 tubaclarinet: I take it back, reopening!
18:00 tubaclarinet khall: roger that
18:00 wahanui aye aye cap'n
18:00 kidclamp I will try to look later, but anyone is free to take a crack, should be fairly trivial
18:13 TGoat left #koha
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19:03 bag hi magnuse
19:03 wahanui kamelåså
19:03 magnuse bag: HI
19:07 kellym joined #koha
19:13 TGoat joined #koha
19:40 tcohen reset_all++
19:40 tcohen Joubu++
19:40 Joubu tcohen: you will love it to git bisect :)
19:41 tcohen OMFG! Didn't think about it!
19:41 Joubu especially when you need to go back to older versions
19:41 tcohen yes yes
19:41 tcohen bisecting upgrade issues, etc
19:41 tcohen Joubu: I love you :-P
19:42 tcohen we need an extra alias
19:42 tcohen bisect <test_file.t>
19:42 Joubu I already know that Tomas ❤
19:44 tcohen later #koha, picking Manuel
19:45 cait1 joined #koha
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19:55 rangi is today teh bugsquash?
19:55 rangi Joubu: deleted
19:56 Joubu yes
19:56 Joubu thx
19:56 Joubu well, should have been :)
19:57 rangi *sigh*
19:59 cait1 hm?
20:00 rangi just didnt see much activity
20:00 cait1 was more yesterday i feel
20:00 Joubu rangi: the meeting about the emails to send to the different actors of the community was fruitful :)
20:01 Joubu a bit more long than expected, but good
20:09 kathryn joined #koha
20:09 rangi yay!
20:15 mveron joined #koha
20:15 mveron Hi again #koha
20:17 cait1 hi mveron!
20:17 mveron I get an internal server error if I try to add a suggestion from OPAC. Plack error log says: Template process failed: undef error - The method default is not covered by tests!
20:17 mveron Can anybody confirm?
20:17 cait1 hm i might have filed one for htat
20:18 mveron ..and hi cait1 :-)
20:18 cait1 once sec
20:18 cait1 once sec
20:18 cait1 gr.
20:18 cait1 please wait
20:19 cait1 i think it could be related to this one 18525
20:19 cait1 bug 18525
20:19 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18525 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Can't create order line from accepted suggestion
20:19 * cait1 obviously can't type tonight
20:19 edveal1 joined #koha
20:20 cait1 but not sure, it's a bit different
20:20 edveal1 left #koha
20:21 edveal1 joined #koha
20:22 Joubu nope
20:22 Joubu I fix it
20:22 mveron cait1: Can you reproduce? From OPAC search result hit 'Make a purchase suggestion'
20:22 Joubu fixed it
20:22 wahanui[…]1r7bwg3o4_250.gif
20:22 Joubu 2src
20:22 Joubu bug 18525
20:22 Joubu easiest is to use the bz search
20:22 Joubu it works quite well, especially when you already have the error message
20:22 cait1 ?
20:23 Joubu yes what you said, same bug number
20:23 Joubu did not know it was already PQA :)
20:23 Joubu So I thought it was another one!
20:24 Joubu hum?
20:24 Joubu no wait
20:24 Joubu sounds like it's late here too...
20:25 Joubu bug 18573
20:25 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18573 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Error when adding anonymous suggestion in the OPAC
20:25 Joubu here is the one
20:25 Joubu mveron: ^
20:26 mveron Fits, I'm on a fresh install, anonymous user not yet set, I suppose.
20:27 Joubu title is wrong
20:34 mveron Patch applied, error gone. I sigend off bug 18573
20:34 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18573 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Error when adding a suggestion in the OPAC
20:34 kellym joined #koha
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20:52 * kidclamp waves
20:54 jmsasse Welcome back kidclamp!
20:54 kidclamp thanks!
20:54 kidclamp meeting soon!
20:54 jmsasse rangi: Hello
20:55 wahanui salut, jmsasse
20:55 jmsasse cait: Wie geht's?
20:55 cait1 gut, und dir? :)
20:55 cait1 another meeting... oi
20:55 cait1 11pm here, almost asleep :)
20:55 phette23 joined #koha
20:56 rangi heya jmsasse :)
20:56 jmsasse cait: Ich bin gut, danke.
20:56 kidclamp lihgt agenda cait - except pronouns
20:57 jmsasse rangi: Been a while. How are you?
20:57 thd joined #koha
21:00 tubaclarinet quit
21:00 tubaclarinet good bye
21:00 tubaclarinet left #koha
21:01 kidclamp okay, meeting folks, lets do this one :-)
21:01 rangi jmsasse: not too bad, busy but that's usual, you?
21:01 kidclamp #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017
21:01 huginn_ Meeting started Wed May 10 21:01:47 2017 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at
21:01 huginn_ Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:01 huginn_ The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_may_2017'
21:01 kidclamp #topic Introductions
21:01 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
21:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:02 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
21:02 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
21:02 phette23 #info Eric Phetteplace, California College of the Arts
21:03 bag #info brendan gallagher bywater
21:03 rangi #info chris cormack, catalyst
21:03 cait1 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
21:03 thd #info, Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
21:03 bag heya cait1
21:03 cait1 heya bag :)
21:04 kidclamp #topic Announcements
21:04 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:04 bag welcome back cait
21:04 bag :P
21:04 cait ;)
21:04 kidclamp today was/is GBSD, been a bit slow, but still plenty out there for interested folks
21:05 kidclamp we had a meeting this morning, Joubu is putting together a taskforce for the next release, and could use some help in translating emails/form
21:05 kidclamp anyone else?
21:06 Joubu release is soon
21:06 Joubu 100 test to QA
21:06 Joubu 170 to test => 50 bugs with patches attached
21:07 Joubu 2 criticals and 21 majors
21:07 Joubu release is in 2weeks
21:07 Joubu I can draw a picture, but I am very bad at drawing
21:07 kidclamp #info lots to do for upcoming release, many hands make light work :-)
21:08 kidclamp thanks Joubu
21:08 kidclamp anyone else?
21:08 thd What would happen if some release critical bugs are not patched by the release date?
21:09 kidclamp release delayed
21:09 Joubu we will force the one that introduce the regression to reorder the wiki
21:10 kidclamp #topic Update from the Release manager (17.05)
21:10 cait hehe
21:10 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (17.05) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:10 kidclamp no Kyle here, but he is pushing stuff and look toward the freeze
21:10 thd If and only if you can identify the source of the regression and you should then know the fix ;)
21:11 kidclamp #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
21:11 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:11 kidclamp anything cait?
21:11 rangi really, released delayed?
21:11 kidclamp I doubt it rangi
21:11 kidclamp we would fix it
21:11 rangi i much prefer the revert
21:11 cait nothing much - still plan on pushing hea2 before 15th
21:11 rangi you cant delay on time based releases, thatas the whole point
21:11 rangi :)
21:11 cait and then have string freeze and release on 22nd
21:12 Joubu (the 2 criticals are quite small patches)
21:12 Joubu Heav2 has been backported to 3.22 today by jajm apparently
21:12 kidclamp yes, course reserves and another - and not blockers
21:13 cait yeah, he was faster
21:13 cait so now I really have to get to it
21:13 Joubu which will be the last release of the 3.22.x series, so good to have it in
21:13 Joubu oh! And the last of 3.x! :)
21:13 cait wow yep
21:13 kidclamp #info 16.11 - freeze on 15th, release on 22nd
21:14 kidclamp #info 3.22 - hea v2 has been backported
21:14 kidclamp #info next 3.22.x will be final
21:14 kidclamp #topic Updates from the QA team
21:14 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:15 kidclamp As Joubu said, many bugs to hit before the release
21:16 kidclamp all help is appreciated
21:16 Joubu only 30 bugs in the NQA queue actually, others are enh
21:16 cait bug 11122 needs sign-off ... please? I did a follow up, so am out.
21:16 huginn_ Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11122 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Needs Signoff , Fix display of publication year/copyrightdate and publishercode on various pages in acquisitions
21:17 kidclamp Oh, and we sent an email to devel re:acquisition changes, I think the solution seems good to all so far, but any thoughts should be given soon
21:17 cait kidclamp: i always thought that at some point rrp was misunderstood as replacement cost - because there is certainly some mix up
21:18 cait having it separate makes sense
21:18 kidclamp yes, should make things simpler, or at least more logical
21:19 kidclamp anything else?
21:20 Joubu If you want me to fix it, you will need to give me exact things
21:20 kidclamp just rewrite acq and make it better Joubu
21:20 Joubu like: how to fix the update, which screens are wrong, what is copied where, etc.
21:20 kidclamp yes, we will cover it in detail
21:21 kidclamp #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
21:21 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:22 kidclamp floor is open for anyone :-)
21:22 Joubu As I said this morning, I have drafted an idea I got recently
21:22 Joubu kind of "how to write a patch" step-by-step
21:22 Joubu like tutorial
21:22 kidclamp Joubu++
21:23 Joubu I have to think a bit more about it, but I think that would be useful for anybody that wants to get involved
21:23 Joubu no need to ask anything to anybody, just execute a file and follow the instruction
21:23 cait we probably should revise the wiki pages too
21:23 Joubu I am thinking of a .pl and .tt to copy on a kohadevbox
21:24 cait remove outdated information and maybe merge some pages etc
21:24 kidclamp I promised long ago to update the 'I want to help page' and still plan too :-)
21:24 Joubu with different checks we could confirm the commit mesg is correct, the diff make sense, etc.
21:24 cait Joubu++
21:24 kidclamp some of the git workflow pages are out of date (mailing patches) etc
21:24 Joubu then git bz attach to a given bug number and git apply, SO and reupload
21:24 wizzyrea joined #koha
21:25 Joubu that way you did the whole workflow
21:25 kidclamp #info Joubo working on a 'write a patch' tutorial
21:25 Joubu Let me know if you are aware of any common issues beginners have (rangi maybe?)
21:26 kidclamp getting back to a clean git when things go awry
21:26 kidclamp cleaning out updates from your DB after testing
21:26 rangi will do
21:27 kidclamp moving on
21:27 kidclamp #topic Review of coding guidelines
21:27 Topic for #koha is now Review of coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:27 kidclamp phette23 want to take the floor?
21:27 phette23 sure
21:28 phette23 I don't have much to add beyond the guidelines linked in the minutes
21:28 phette23 I think it would be good to have some policy in place but am not super opinionated about the specifics
21:29 thd Now that my internet is working again after a month of no service I have posted an alternative in the wiki somewhat too quickly in the same wiki page.
21:29 phette23 so the alternative someone added referencing CMoS is fine, for instance, if more verbose than I would've written
21:29 phette23 ok thanks for that
21:30 thd Sorry, that I did not have time to clean up what I wrote better.
21:30 kidclamp I think maybe the alternative provides more guidance, but the original is more compact and suited as a guideline
21:30 thd I am at work today.
21:30 cait can we get the link?
21:30 kidclamp add that and then refer to the style manual
21:30 phette23 https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_Neutral_Pronouns
21:30 kidclamp #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_Neutral_Pronouns Gender Neutral Pronouns Proposal
21:30 kidclamp sorry cait :-)
21:30 thd My objection to the original is mostly that the example is ungrammatical.
21:31 cait no need, i was lazy :)
21:31 phette23 ok
21:31 cait i think fixing the original, but keep it nice and short would be good
21:31 phette23 how about I update example with your language
21:31 cait fix the example int he first
21:31 phette23 and link to CMoS also but not spell out all 9 ways
21:32 phette23 which are great but really lengthen things
21:32 kidclamp I think we can vote then on the guideline as written and the example and additional info can be adjusted
21:32 rangi i agree
21:32 kidclamp When referring to a person who could be of any gender, you should use the words they/them/their. This goes for code comments, text in templates, and strings in tests.
21:32 Kafilini joined #koha
21:32 thd I have included a fix for the example as suggested by Mark Tompsett.
21:33 kidclamp Alright, calling for vote if no more discussion
21:33 Joubu the added part is really too complicated for me
21:33 thd I would like to add something else.
21:33 Joubu nobody will read that
21:34 Joubu We needed to vote on something and the terms have been modified 40min before the vote?
21:34 thd The plural singular as the preferred solution by many seems to raise problems for people for whom English is a second language.
21:35 kidclamp mostly agreed joubu, I think a short guideline is necessary but a link to more info doesn't hurt
21:35 cait I think it's a good thing to learn about
21:36 cait that you can use they/their etc. to be gender neutral
21:36 cait so should not stop us
21:36 thd The issue for some people understanding the use of they was raised on the mailing list.
21:37 cait I think I said the same thing there :)
21:37 kidclamp agreed thd, but I think most accepted it in lack of better suggestion
21:37 kidclamp /option
21:37 thd Sadly my internet was not working enough for me to read the mailing list.
21:37 rangi i think in this case (in fact almost every case) less is more
21:38 rangi english grammar is ridiculous, lets just focus on not causing offense with gender, not fix all grammar problesm
21:38 thd Exactly, omitting the pronoun is usually better.
21:38 rangi singular they is a good rule
21:38 kidclamp When referring to a person who could be of any gender, you should use the words they/them/their or omit the pronoun.
21:39 rangi that works
21:39 phette23 yes I like that statement
21:39 Joubu I'd suggest to vote for what phette23's proposal
21:39 Joubu the 3 short lines, well explained and understandable
21:39 thd Singular they is easiest to implement but causes ambiguity problems.
21:39 Joubu then thd you can send an email to the list to suggest something else if you like
21:40 kidclamp okay, going to start the vote
21:40 thd I will do that and favour endorsing the original with a preference for at least correcting the grammar in the examples.
21:41 kidclamp #startvote Should we add a guideline for use of gender neutral pronouns stating "When referring to a person who could be of any gender, you should use the words they/them/their or avoid the pronoun. This goes for code comments, text in templates, and strings in tests."? Yes, No
21:41 huginn_ Begin voting on: Should we add a guideline for use of gender neutral pronouns stating "When referring to a person who could be of any gender, you should use the words they/them/their or avoid the pronoun. This goes for code comments, text in templates, and strings in tests."? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
21:41 huginn_ Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
21:41 kidclamp #vote Yes
21:41 Joubu #vote Yes
21:41 wizzyrea #vote yes
21:41 rangi #vote yes
21:41 thd #vote yes
21:41 phette23 #vote Yes
21:42 bag #vote yes
21:42 oleonard joined #koha
21:42 kidclamp last call
21:42 cait #vote yes
21:42 cait phew
21:42 kidclamp #endvote
21:42 huginn_ Voted on "Should we add a guideline for use of gender neutral pronouns stating "When referring to a person who could be of any gender, you should use the words they/them/their or avoid the pronoun. This goes for code comments, text in templates, and strings in tests."?" Results are
21:42 huginn_ Yes (8): Joubu, wizzyrea, phette23, kidclamp, cait, bag, thd, rangi
21:42 kidclamp under the wire
21:42 * oleonard would have voted yes if he'd been on time
21:43 kidclamp phette23 - will you add that to the guidleines page?
21:43 phette23 yes will do
21:43 phette23 to be clear
21:43 kidclamp phette23++
21:43 phette23 is it OK to correct example grammar & use the new statement we voted on?
21:43 phette23 or should I try to maintain the exact draft as presently exists
21:43 kidclamp yes, statement as voted, example can be adjusted
21:44 phette23 ok thanks everyone
21:44 thd The main point is understood either way ;)
21:44 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, USA
21:44 kidclamp did you have any announcement oleonard?
21:44 oleonard Nope.
21:45 kidclamp jsut wanted to give you a shot :-)
21:45 kidclamp #topic Set time of next meeting
21:45 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 May 2017)
21:45 * oleonard is just happy to be here
21:45 cait phette23++
21:45 kidclamp 21 UTC seems to have worked out, I think we can use this in the future too (always nice to see rangi)
21:45 kidclamp but for next 13?
21:46 kidclamp two weeks would be 24th
21:46 kidclamp Wednesday, May 24th, 13 UTC?
21:46 Joubu I think since last DST that should be 14
21:47 kidclamp Wednesday, May 24th, 14 UTC?
21:47 Joubu I do not know :)
21:47 Joubu just wondering
21:47 kholt joined #koha
21:47 kidclamp 13 is 8 for me, 5 am for bag
21:47 oleonard Either works well mid & eastern USA
21:47 Joubu so 14 is better, right?
21:47 bag if there is baseball I’m there :P
21:48 kidclamp sounds good to me
21:48 * kidclamp is definitely not just sucking up to new RM
21:48 oleonard Inside baseball maybe
21:48 kidclamp #info Next meeting: Wednesday, May 24th, 14 UTC
21:49 Joubu thx kidclamp!
21:49 kidclamp final chance to get in the minutes and have eternal fame!
21:50 kidclamp #endmeeting
21:50 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the #koha IRC chat | Code of conduct -[…]/code-of-conduct/ | Please use for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is
21:50 huginn_ Meeting ended Wed May 10 21:50:00 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
21:50 huginn_ Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-05-10-21.01.html
21:50 huginn_ Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]7-05-10-21.01.txt
21:50 huginn_ Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-21.01.log.html
21:50 kidclamp and you all missed it
21:50 Joubu bye #koha
21:50 kidclamp night all!
21:50 wahanui goodnight kidclamp. You'll be back.
21:50 cait kidclamp++ :)
21:50 cait 2 in a day is something
21:51 * oleonard waves to rangi
21:52 rangi heya oleonard
21:52 wahanui oleonard is probably still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
21:53 * oleonard spent as much time on GBSD today as he could but didn't end up being very productive
21:55 kathryn joined #koha
22:18 oleonard Is there an API for creating and deleting holds? If so, is it in use within Koha?
22:18 kholt joined #koha
22:18 Kafilini joined #koha
22:18 cait hm i think there is an api for holds, not sure how it's used
22:18 cait i know we have something api when changing hte pickup location from hte patron record
22:19 * oleonard is probably getting in over his head anyway
22:32 cait you can do it! :)
22:35 oleonard To any smart people listening: What is going on at line 53 of svc/hold/resume?
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