| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:04 |
|
dcook |
eythian: :p |
| 02:02 |
|
|
rocio left #koha |
| 02:06 |
|
eythian |
hah, so I think my dumb query mistake yesterday was putting _any when I meant _all |
| 02:11 |
|
|
ngourlay joined #koha |
| 02:14 |
|
dcook |
eythian: Ouch! |
| 02:15 |
|
eythian |
anybody need a petabyte of online storage? rsync.net is doing a referral program where I'll get a $24,000 bonus, which would be nice. |
| 02:23 |
|
mtj |
hi all |
| 02:23 |
|
mtj |
hey, this is kinda curious.. |
| 02:23 |
|
mtj |
https://github.com/wiggin/Google-did-you-mean |
| 02:24 |
|
eythian |
it's something we could possibly implement with elasticsearch, I think |
| 02:24 |
|
eythian |
I'm no 100% sure though |
| 02:24 |
|
eythian |
*not |
| 02:25 |
|
mtj |
ah nice |
| 02:25 |
|
mtj |
its a tricky feature to spec huh.. the results will always be a bit subjective |
| 02:27 |
|
eythian |
yeah |
| 02:28 |
|
mtj |
different results, depending on the current lang. |
| 02:29 |
|
mtj |
the way i imagine it working is a pretty useless way |
| 02:29 |
|
eythian |
well, I was thinking it'd work from the current database |
| 02:29 |
|
eythian |
so pretty much the same as a fuzzy search |
| 02:29 |
|
dcook |
chrisvella_: Are you still about? |
| 02:30 |
|
mtj |
eythian: yeah, thats the sensible way |
| 02:32 |
|
mtj |
add some wildcards to the inital query, and try again... then show those results as some suggested search queries |
| 02:33 |
|
dcook |
Actually, mtj, you might be the right person to talk to about bug 3144... |
| 02:33 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3144 normal, P5 - low, ---, mjr, Pushed to Stable , anti-spam for opac-suggestions |
| 02:37 |
|
mtj |
hi dcook, whats the Q? |
| 02:37 |
|
dcook |
The boss raised the query about the negative captcha and screen readers |
| 02:37 |
|
dcook |
It looks like screen readers would read out that field :/ |
| 02:37 |
|
dcook |
I'm doing some more reading about it atm |
| 02:41 |
|
mtj |
hmm, ok |
| 02:41 |
|
chrisvella_ |
yea dcook I am |
| 02:42 |
|
dcook |
chrisvella_ I was just going to pose the same Q to you ;) |
| 02:42 |
|
dcook |
Just looking at this site now: http://www.visionaustralia.org[…]cessible-captchas |
| 02:43 |
|
chrisvella_ |
hmmm thats interesting |
| 02:44 |
|
mtj |
dcook: negcap seems to have a trivial fix? |
| 02:44 |
|
chrisvella_ |
it does sound like a downside for accessibility but I doubt its going to be an issue for 99.99% of people |
| 02:44 |
|
rangi |
and problem still way more accesible than an actual captcha |
| 02:45 |
|
dcook |
mtj: Hmm? |
| 02:45 |
|
dcook |
rangi: totes |
| 02:45 |
|
dcook |
chrisvella_: true true |
| 02:45 |
|
dcook |
I imagine with a label of "negcap", most people would probably leave it empty anyway |
| 02:46 |
|
mtj |
i was just thinking of removing the text 'negcap' |
| 02:46 |
|
rangi |
it's funny |
| 02:46 |
|
chrisvella_ |
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/[…]rties#aria-hidden dcook mtj |
| 02:47 |
|
rangi |
because all the alternatives they suggest assume everyone speaks english |
| 02:48 |
|
dcook |
chrisvella_: Oh... that's cool |
| 02:48 |
|
rangi |
i like the neg captcha because it doesn't bank on people's english comprehension level |
| 02:48 |
|
dcook |
rangi: Yeah, they mention that on that visionaustralia page I linked |
| 02:48 |
|
rangi |
i meant the ones they suggest on that page as possible alternatives :) |
| 02:48 |
|
* dcook |
looks again |
| 02:49 |
|
dcook |
"The biggest problem with logic questions is that they’re specific to a language, usually English." |
| 02:49 |
|
mtj |
chrisvella_'s aria page looks good |
| 02:49 |
|
rangi |
yeah which imho is a way worse problem |
| 02:49 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, I'm down with the aria stuff |
| 02:49 |
|
dcook |
rangi: Yeah, the English language stuff isn't a good alternative |
| 02:49 |
|
rangi |
certainly there's more non english people than people using screen readers |
| 02:50 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 02:50 |
|
chrisvella_ |
yea agreed |
| 02:50 |
|
chrisvella_ |
we have only implemented the negcap for the purchase suggestions page right? |
| 02:50 |
|
dcook |
Ultimately, even the aria stuff could be circumvented. But pretty much anything can be with enough time and effort. |
| 02:51 |
|
dcook |
I think so? |
| 02:51 |
|
dcook |
Btw, in general, I'm totally in favour of the negcap. I hate captchas. |
| 02:51 |
|
chrisvella_ |
I think its the right solution for koha |
| 02:51 |
|
rangi |
i think we have a plain bad captcha on the borrwer self reg page |
| 02:51 |
|
rangi |
we should fix that |
| 02:51 |
|
dcook |
Ah yeah, I seem to recall a pretty bad one there |
| 02:52 |
|
chrisvella_ |
this screen reader issue has totally surprised me, but I think its a minor issue all things considered |
| 02:52 |
|
chrisvella_ |
the only potential issue is if koha becomes enough of a target for spammers |
| 02:52 |
|
dcook |
We've had a few of our Kohas spammed pretty hard :/ |
| 02:52 |
|
dcook |
But yeah, probably not very targetedly |
| 02:52 |
|
chrisvella_ |
exactly |
| 02:53 |
|
dcook |
Even in the screen reader case, most people would probably leave it blank, so probably not much of an issue |
| 02:53 |
|
chrisvella_ |
like purchase suggestions are not a high value target |
| 02:53 |
|
dcook |
Depends on how many times the spammers request FSOG, I guess |
| 02:53 |
|
chrisvella_ |
as said above lets make the class/div name really obvious |
| 02:53 |
|
rangi |
yep |
| 02:53 |
|
* dcook |
nods |
| 02:53 |
|
chrisvella_ |
"donotfillmein" |
| 02:53 |
|
rangi |
and put it in the template in a way that's translatable |
| 02:53 |
|
dcook |
^ |
| 02:53 |
|
rangi |
since the rest of the interface can be |
| 02:54 |
|
chrisvella_ |
hahaha dcook. just google "FSOG" |
| 02:54 |
|
chrisvella_ |
googled* |
| 02:55 |
|
chrisvella_ |
has anyone had issues with the negcap? |
| 02:55 |
|
dcook |
;) |
| 02:55 |
|
dcook |
Not that I know of |
| 02:55 |
|
dcook |
I was just looking to backport it to 3.14 |
| 02:55 |
|
dcook |
And the boss mentioned the screen reader thing |
| 02:56 |
|
chrisvella_ |
amazing pickup |
| 02:56 |
|
dcook |
Well, we have quite a few government clients, so accessibility is always on the radar |
| 02:56 |
|
chrisvella_ |
fair enough |
| 02:57 |
|
dcook |
Actually, I think using Bootstrap has helped with that |
| 02:57 |
|
chrisvella_ |
how so? |
| 02:57 |
|
dcook |
Well, I don't have any examples off my head, so I should've probably said nothing :p |
| 02:57 |
|
dcook |
But something in the back of my mind tells me that they try to keep accessibility in mind |
| 02:58 |
|
dcook |
At least to a certain degree, and probably to a larger degree than anything we cook up would be |
| 02:58 |
|
chrisvella_ |
the intention always seems to be there |
| 02:58 |
|
chrisvella_ |
we have had to deal with similar things |
| 02:58 |
|
dcook |
But not always the expertise :/ |
| 02:58 |
|
chrisvella_ |
hahaha exactly |
| 02:59 |
|
dcook |
I have a few friends who know a lot about accessibility, so I like to grill them for info :p |
| 02:59 |
|
chrisvella_ |
I find its usually some arbitrary "make this text bigger" "make that brighter" |
| 02:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
we do have a plain bad captcha on the selfreg page |
| 02:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
in fact |
| 02:59 |
|
chrisvella_ |
yea its an interesting topic |
| 02:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
it needs a going over, generally. |
| 03:00 |
|
chrisvella_ |
wizzyrea do you think a negcap would work there? |
| 03:00 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, the "make this text bigger" "change these colurs" can be tough... although I see the point |
| 03:00 |
|
* dcook |
prefers white text on a black background in many cases |
| 03:00 |
|
chrisvella_ |
grosssss dcook :) |
| 03:00 |
|
dcook |
wizzyrea: Yeah, I think there might be an issue with the cardnumber... I think I fixed it locally but I can't recall what it is now |
| 03:00 |
|
dcook |
Too busy for my own (and everyone else's) good |
| 03:00 |
|
dcook |
Which reminds me I should go for lunch because if I don't go now I'll never go |
| 03:01 |
|
wizzyrea |
not just that, it's just not terribly usable. |
| 03:01 |
|
wizzyrea |
I don't see why a negcap wouldn't work there. |
| 03:01 |
|
chrisvella_ |
cool |
| 03:02 |
|
chrisvella_ |
but then this screen reader issue becomes a bigger problem |
| 03:03 |
|
chrisvella_ |
much more likely to have user interaction there |
| 03:04 |
|
wizzyrea |
yep, accessible bot-proofing is a challenge. |
| 03:05 |
|
wizzyrea |
google had a thing where they could tell if you were a human or bot just by the way you used the page - which sounds like deep dirty magic to me but... |
| 03:05 |
|
chrisvella_ |
f googles implementation of that. |
| 03:05 |
|
wizzyrea |
ikr |
| 03:06 |
|
chrisvella_ |
there are terrible. the capturas were almost impossible on firefox when that was implemented |
| 03:06 |
|
chrisvella_ |
they* |
| 03:06 |
|
wizzyrea |
don't think I ever had the pleasure of actually having to use one, I only read about it. |
| 03:07 |
|
wizzyrea |
sounded pretty eesh though |
| 03:07 |
|
chrisvella_ |
idk if its still as bad. but it was super anti-competitive at first |
| 03:08 |
|
chrisvella_ |
don't quote me on this |
| 03:08 |
|
* wizzyrea |
totes quotes you |
| 03:08 |
|
wizzyrea |
j/k |
| 03:08 |
|
chrisvella_ |
hahaha |
| 03:09 |
|
chrisvella_ |
but I believe using adblockers and stuff reduces your likelihood of being marked as "human" |
| 03:09 |
|
chrisvella_ |
and using a google account and stuff |
| 03:10 |
|
chrisvella_ |
basically submit to the botnet or spend your days filling in impossible cap's |
| 03:12 |
|
chrisvella_ |
good message on the bug report dcook |
| 03:30 |
|
dcook |
Thanks chrisvella_ :) |
| 03:30 |
|
dcook |
Hmm, orthodontists seem sketchy... |
| 03:30 |
|
dcook |
Even the one I like uses a hotmail address :p |
| 03:31 |
|
eythian |
haha |
| 03:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
judging people based on their email domain. tsk. |
| 03:31 |
|
dcook |
It's medical info! |
| 03:31 |
|
dcook |
Mind you, why are you emailing people with medical info... |
| 03:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
these are better questions to be asking yourself. |
| 03:32 |
|
dcook |
Oh man, that reminds me of so many different courts that want you to email your credit card details... |
| 03:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
or government websites that don't use SSL |
| 03:32 |
|
dcook |
^ |
| 03:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
<shudder> |
| 03:33 |
|
dcook |
I emailed them being like "Maybe you should use SSL and have the ability to upload documents that way, as email isn't a secure way of transferring documents, especially credit card details, at all." |
| 03:33 |
|
dcook |
And I never heard from them again... |
| 03:33 |
|
wizzyrea |
heh. |
| 03:33 |
|
dcook |
Fortunately, we found the documents and didn't need replacements :p |
| 03:33 |
|
dcook |
But man... |
| 03:33 |
|
dcook |
wizzyrea: The weird thing with the hotmail is that they have someone hosting a website for them. You'd think that they'd have email as well.. |
| 03:34 |
|
dcook |
Mind you, the website is buggy so that's... not good |
| 03:34 |
|
wizzyrea |
mmm those two things don't necessarily go together |
| 03:34 |
|
wizzyrea |
but it's pretty easy to get a google apps domain |
| 03:34 |
|
dcook |
Although now that I think about it... I did help that out with some graphic design stuff a few years ago when I had some time to kill |
| 03:34 |
|
wizzyrea |
and use your own. |
| 03:34 |
|
* eythian |
just asks people for the GPG key, with the assumption they have one. So far two people we've worked with have created one (which is also the number of people I've asked for one.) |
| 03:34 |
|
dcook |
eythian: Which people? |
| 03:34 |
|
wizzyrea |
hehehehhehh |
| 03:35 |
|
eythian |
usually IT people at other organisations |
| 03:35 |
|
eythian |
i.e. if I'm sharing passwords or some such |
| 03:35 |
|
wizzyrea |
that might not work with an orthodontist. |
| 03:35 |
|
* wizzyrea |
challenges eythian to try |
| 03:35 |
|
wizzyrea |
not that he needs an orthodontist |
| 03:35 |
|
* wizzyrea |
backs away slowly |
| 03:35 |
|
dcook |
I'm sure the orthodontist could've been more tech savvy in a different life |
| 03:36 |
|
eythian |
no, it probably won't. But if it points out that they shouldn't be emailing medical stuff... |
| 03:36 |
|
eythian |
I used to have an orthodontist |
| 03:36 |
|
eythian |
now I no longer need one. |
| 03:36 |
|
eythian |
that's how they work :) |
| 03:36 |
|
* dcook |
just needs someone to take a mould of his teeth, create a super thick plastic appliance, and give it to him with a minimum of fuss |
| 03:36 |
|
dcook |
Alas, I'm a bruxist... |
| 03:36 |
|
eythian |
appliance, like a washing machine? |
| 03:36 |
|
dcook |
I foresee always needing an applicance |
| 03:36 |
|
eythian |
in the form of a tooth |
| 03:36 |
|
wizzyrea |
I am totally lost in the world of teeth straightening. |
| 03:36 |
|
dcook |
That could be a space saver |
| 03:36 |
|
dcook |
eythian ^ |
| 03:37 |
|
dcook |
wizzyrea: As per my earlier post about blood and needles, I actually kind of like teeth pulling and stuff as well. Very satisfying sound when they come out. |
| 03:37 |
|
eythian |
dcook: ah yeah, I had that and it was causing my TMJ to screw up. |
| 03:37 |
|
dcook |
Although brace wire breakage sucks... |
| 03:37 |
|
wizzyrea |
I just got a squicky feeling reading that. |
| 03:37 |
|
eythian |
a mouthguard thing for a few weeks sorted it. |
| 03:37 |
|
dcook |
eythian: TMJ? |
| 03:37 |
|
dcook |
wizzyrea: sorry :( |
| 03:38 |
|
* dcook |
thought about being a forensic pathologist, so body stuff is more interesting than icky to him |
| 03:38 |
|
eythian |
dcook: temporomandibular joint |
| 03:38 |
|
dcook |
Of course, I've thought about doing all sorts of things really |
| 03:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
i have a high school friend who has/had a tmj ... thing |
| 03:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
quite a good singer. |
| 03:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
unrelated. |
| 03:38 |
|
dcook |
Hmm, neato |
| 03:38 |
|
* dcook |
seems to sleep stressfully |
| 03:39 |
|
dcook |
I'm not going to share the contents of my next phone call. Hopefully it should be more straightforward. |
| 03:39 |
|
dcook |
I just find medical/dental stuff so different in Australia... |
| 03:39 |
|
dcook |
It's so easy back in Canada, but here it's all... |
| 03:39 |
|
wizzyrea |
dcook: just be glad you're not in the states. |
| 03:40 |
|
dcook |
I am so so glad I'm not in the states |
| 03:45 |
|
eythian |
well, now I'm sortof getting authority results |
| 03:45 |
|
eythian |
that's a start |
| 03:47 |
|
|
anilautade joined #koha |
| 03:50 |
|
dcook |
Ohh... this one is interesting |
| 03:51 |
|
dcook |
The super expensive doctors email you a link to your message |
| 03:55 |
|
dcook |
I was wondering what they meant when the email said "Secure email" :p |
| 04:47 |
|
dcook |
Hmm.. |
| 04:47 |
|
dcook |
Has Wheezy always linked "sh" to "dash"? |
| 04:47 |
|
dcook |
I thought "dash" was just used in Ubuntu.. |
| 04:49 |
|
eythian |
I think wheezy already has |
| 04:49 |
|
eythian |
not sure when debian started doing it |
| 04:49 |
|
dcook |
Yeah, I just noticed that this Wheezy install I'm using uses dash |
| 04:49 |
|
eythian |
squeeze does too |
| 04:49 |
|
dcook |
I thought the wheezy I have at home didn't though... |
| 04:49 |
|
dcook |
Really? |
| 04:49 |
|
dcook |
Huh.. |
| 04:49 |
|
dcook |
I must not write as many shell scripts on Debian based systems.. |
| 04:49 |
|
eythian |
yeah, just checked a server |
| 04:50 |
|
dcook |
I've been converting a lot of my shell scripts to Python scripts lately |
| 04:50 |
|
eythian |
well shell scripts should be sh compatible and work fine, or declare /usr/bin/bash |
| 04:52 |
|
dcook |
Hmm, maybe something else is up.. |
| 04:52 |
|
dcook |
Ahhh |
| 04:52 |
|
dcook |
More "bashisms" than I thought |
| 04:53 |
|
dcook |
I think openSUSE uses bash by default.. |
| 04:53 |
|
* dcook |
should really review some of his shell scripts to double-check their syntax... |
| 04:54 |
|
eythian |
wahanui: irc is multiplayer notepad |
| 04:54 |
|
wahanui |
...but irc is http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/|a good place to ask question. This week is more quiet that usual because of the Koha Conference... |
| 04:54 |
|
eythian |
wahanui: irc is also multiplayer notepad |
| 04:54 |
|
wahanui |
okay, eythian. |
| 04:54 |
|
dcook |
hehe |
| 04:54 |
|
dcook |
It's funny because it's true... |
| 05:09 |
|
dcook |
eythian: Quick question about Debian packages if you're up for it |
| 05:09 |
|
eythian |
sure |
| 05:09 |
|
dcook |
When you pin a package, it doesn't get updated by doing "apt-get upgrade", right? |
| 05:09 |
|
eythian |
that's mostly right |
| 05:10 |
|
dcook |
What's the part that mostly isn't? |
| 05:10 |
|
eythian |
well, it's generally the case. However you can do things like use pinning to prioritise another repo. |
| 05:11 |
|
dcook |
Mmm, right. I recall seeing something about priority. |
| 05:11 |
|
dcook |
Say you only had one package that wasn't available via another repo |
| 05:11 |
|
dcook |
Can you still manually update it even though it's pinned? |
| 05:11 |
|
eythian |
yeah |
| 05:11 |
|
eythian |
$ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/koha-common |
| 05:11 |
|
eythian |
Package: koha-common |
| 05:11 |
|
eythian |
Pin: origin "debian.koha-community.org" |
| 05:11 |
|
eythian |
Pin-Priority: -1 |
| 05:11 |
|
wahanui |
koha-common is the one you want, the main koha one needs a bit more work (its for setting up a single instance) |
| 05:11 |
|
dcook |
just "apt-get install package"? |
| 05:11 |
|
eythian |
hmm |
| 05:11 |
|
eythian |
not sure. |
| 05:12 |
|
eythian |
maybe |
| 05:12 |
|
eythian |
you can do apt-get install package=1.2.3 |
| 05:12 |
|
eythian |
and it'll force that version |
| 05:14 |
|
eythian |
apt-cache policy package is useful for checking what's going on |
| 05:15 |
|
dcook |
Hmm.. |
| 05:18 |
|
dcook |
Hmm, I think maybe what I want is... "Pin: version 3.18*" perhaps |
| 05:18 |
|
eythian |
you might be able to do that, I'm not sure |
| 05:18 |
|
dcook |
https://www.debian.org/doc/man[…]h-apt-get.en.html |
| 05:18 |
|
dcook |
I'm intrigued by these priorities.. |
| 05:18 |
|
eythian |
we just pin it to stop automatic upgrades, so we can do them manually as needed. |
| 05:19 |
|
dcook |
Well, apparently "Pin: version 3.18*" will let the automatic upgrades through for minor version updates |
| 05:19 |
|
dcook |
Ah wait.. maybe not |
| 05:19 |
|
dcook |
Maybe this is a Debian specific thing.. |
| 05:19 |
|
dcook |
Like "0.4.99-1 and 0.4.99-10" |
| 05:19 |
|
eythian |
I don't follow |
| 05:19 |
|
dcook |
Well, let's say you have 3.18.2 |
| 05:19 |
|
eythian |
would it not be 3.18.*, too |
| 05:20 |
|
dcook |
In theory |
| 05:20 |
|
dcook |
I'd hope that would work |
| 05:20 |
|
dcook |
And that * isn't replaced with "-blah" |
| 05:20 |
|
dcook |
Which it probably isn't and I'm just overthinking it :p |
| 05:20 |
|
eythian |
oh, I see |
| 05:21 |
|
eythian |
well, we don't yet do -1 type stuff |
| 05:21 |
|
eythian |
one day I'll make it do that |
| 05:21 |
|
eythian |
(we used to, then build rules got stricter) |
| 05:21 |
|
dcook |
Stricter? |
| 05:22 |
|
eythian |
koha is treated as a debian-native package because the debian/ directory is included in the upstream source |
| 05:22 |
|
eythian |
as there's no separation of debian/ and source, you can't (in theory) update one without updating the upstream version |
| 05:22 |
|
eythian |
so, it doesn't permit putting -1 on the end |
| 05:22 |
|
dcook |
Ah right... I recall you mentioning something about this before |
| 05:23 |
|
eythian |
I plan one day to separate out the packaging stuff |
| 05:23 |
|
dcook |
Cool! |
| 05:23 |
|
eythian |
so that koha is treated as upstream and then a separate repo contains the packaging details |
| 05:24 |
|
dcook |
:) |
| 05:24 |
|
eythian |
or maybe just have a script that separates them out. |
| 05:25 |
|
dcook |
I keep telling myself that I'll learn to package RPMs for openSUSE, but... |
| 05:25 |
|
eythian |
heh |
| 05:26 |
|
dcook |
I would if it would be beneficial here... but it would require some work to make it worthwhile at the moment |
| 05:34 |
|
* eythian |
heads off |
| 05:34 |
|
eythian |
later |
| 05:35 |
|
dcook |
later |
| 05:35 |
|
dcook |
thanks for answering my questions, eythian :) |
| 05:38 |
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| 05:39 |
|
timmmy |
hello. where are the XSLT files? |
| 05:40 |
|
timmmy |
I have a brand new default installation. |
| 05:43 |
|
dcook |
And I was just about to answer |
| 06:55 |
|
* magnuse |
waves |
| 06:58 |
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| 07:30 |
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| 07:30 |
|
reiveune |
hello |
| 07:31 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: Fight the FUD man! Just show them what we do :) |
| 07:32 |
|
kivilahtio |
eythian: nooooooooooo. I don't want to configure elasticsearch indexes in 4 different places |
| 07:32 |
|
kivilahtio |
eythian: *When modifying Items, I don't want to deal with converting perfectly good items-rows to MARC Item representation and then covnerting them back to items-object so it can be saved to DB. |
| 07:52 |
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| 07:57 |
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alex_a |
bonjour |
| 08:03 |
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| 08:05 |
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| 08:07 |
|
Joubu |
hello |
| 08:07 |
|
wahanui |
hi, Joubu |
| 08:08 |
|
Joubu |
@later tell khall yes got it, thanks! |
| 08:08 |
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huginn |
Joubu: The operation succeeded. |
| 08:08 |
|
Joubu |
@later tell pianohacker the most important is not the number of patches but their readability :) |
| 08:08 |
|
huginn |
Joubu: The operation succeeded. |
| 08:13 |
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kivilahtio |
Joubu: Do you know of anyone using Koha with RedHat? |
| 08:13 |
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| 08:13 |
|
kivilahtio |
Oulu libraries have some tight bindings with their local IT support provider and they only provide RedHat linux |
| 08:14 |
|
Joubu |
I think we had a partner using RedHat, but it was a nightmare to install Koha on it |
| 08:15 |
|
kivilahtio |
Joubu: I am trying to convince those RedHat peeps to install Ubuntu or Debian |
| 08:15 |
|
kivilahtio |
Joubu: Just looking for ammunition for my arguments |
| 08:15 |
|
Joubu |
If I remember correctly, fridolin did the install |
| 08:15 |
|
Joubu |
fridolin: do you remember? |
| 08:16 |
|
kivilahtio |
yeah fridolin! Can we recommend RedHat as a OS for Koha? |
| 08:16 |
|
kivilahtio |
Isn't RedHat like 50% proprietary? |
| 08:17 |
|
kivilahtio |
could I say you cannot install Koha on RedHat :) |
| 08:17 |
|
kivilahtio |
it doesnät work :) |
| 08:19 |
|
drojf |
kivilahtio: the university of applied sciences in wildau (in germany, close to berlin) has redhat or centos, they provide koha for the local public library. i tried hard to convince them to use debian, but they also have an it department that insisted on doing it that way. it works, but it must be horrible to update ;) |
| 08:19 |
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| 08:19 |
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kivilahtio |
drojf: The point here is that we are forming a nationwide cooperation of Koha developers. And it might be that some day I have to update their Koha |
| 08:19 |
|
drojf |
lolnope |
| 08:21 |
|
kivilahtio |
drojf:, Joubu: I wonder what is the benefit of using RedHat over Debian/Ubuntu? |
| 08:21 |
|
kivilahtio |
there must be something because they insist on it |
| 08:21 |
|
drojf |
a contract with an outside support company, i think |
| 08:21 |
|
kivilahtio |
they clami that they get vendor support |
| 08:21 |
|
drojf |
yup |
| 08:21 |
|
kivilahtio |
but you can get vendor support for ubuntu as well |
| 08:22 |
|
kivilahtio |
afaik nobody needs that :) |
| 08:22 |
|
drojf |
but they have it for everything else and won't change all that for you |
| 08:22 |
|
Joubu |
kivilahtio: did you have a look at the wiki page? |
| 08:22 |
|
Joubu |
http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]dhat_Enterprise_6 |
| 08:22 |
|
Joubu |
But it looks outdated |
| 08:22 |
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kivilahtio |
Joubu: thanks, I read it and it looks like something I don't want to be a part of |
| 08:23 |
|
drojf |
heh |
| 08:24 |
|
kivilahtio |
thanks guys. BTW do you know anyone Richard Washington from Tonga? |
| 08:26 |
|
Joubu |
No but I know Richard Tonga from Washington |
| 08:26 |
|
fridolin |
hie all |
| 08:26 |
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kivilahtio |
Joubu: heh, has he got something to do with Koha? |
| 08:26 |
|
kivilahtio |
hi fridolin! |
| 08:27 |
|
fridolin |
kivilahtio: unfortunaly 100% NO |
| 08:27 |
|
kivilahtio |
well that is a good recommendation |
| 08:27 |
|
fridolin |
all dependances of Koha are managed in Debian packages |
| 08:27 |
|
Joubu |
just something to do with my mind |
| 08:28 |
|
fridolin |
we have often a demand for CentOS of Fedora |
| 08:28 |
|
kivilahtio |
fridolin: I installed MAriaDB I had to install dependencies outside of the koha-dependecies -package, but I still sintalled everything from packages |
| 08:28 |
|
kivilahtio |
was quite easy :) |
| 08:28 |
|
fridolin |
kivilahtio: on a RedHat ? |
| 08:29 |
|
kivilahtio |
on Ubuntu 14.04 :) |
| 08:29 |
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rangi |
centos or fedora is one thing |
| 08:29 |
|
rangi |
that's doable |
| 08:29 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: ok |
| 08:29 |
|
rangi |
redhat .. not so much |
| 08:30 |
|
rangi |
its old everything |
| 08:30 |
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| 08:30 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: fedora and centos |
| 08:30 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: doesnt save my day :) |
| 08:30 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: and neither does theirs. Can you tell me any details? |
| 08:31 |
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| 08:31 |
|
kivilahtio |
like packages are aoutdated? or hte RedHat is outdated? |
| 08:31 |
|
gaetan_B |
hello |
| 08:31 |
|
kivilahtio |
it looks like verything must be compiled from hte source, even the Perl modules |
| 08:31 |
|
rangi |
fedora does 6 monthly releases just like ubuntu, its mostly up to date |
| 08:32 |
|
rangi |
a lot of the perl modules are packaged, quite a few still arent |
| 08:32 |
|
rangi |
but mariadb, etc are packaged |
| 08:33 |
|
rangi |
redhat releases are like ubuntu lts .. except even more focused on stability |
| 08:33 |
|
kivilahtio |
fridolin: so you think 100% NO :) that is good :) |
| 08:33 |
|
rangi |
and long release cycle |
| 08:33 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: I don't quite follow what does it have to do with running Koha? |
| 08:33 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: You mean the new Perl modules we use are becoming available for RedHat in two years? |
| 08:34 |
|
rangi |
or longer |
| 08:34 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: With a delay of 2 years |
| 08:34 |
|
rangi |
its not two years its longer for rhel |
| 08:34 |
|
rangi |
centos is rhel without the paid for support, but also because its community driven, people package for it too |
| 08:35 |
|
rangi |
none of them are impossible to install koha on, ive run it on all 3 |
| 08:35 |
|
kivilahtio |
ok |
| 08:35 |
|
rangi |
but it's significantly more work |
| 08:35 |
|
rangi |
its just like on any system you have installed from cpan on |
| 08:35 |
|
rangi |
its up to you, to monitor all of those modules |
| 08:35 |
|
rangi |
and upgrade for security |
| 08:36 |
|
rangi |
for 100+ modules, thats a lot of work |
| 08:37 |
|
rangi |
multiply that by a few servers and yeah .. who needs that headache |
| 08:39 |
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| 08:42 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: Yeah, we also run Koha separated on ~7 virtual servers |
| 08:42 |
|
kivilahtio |
rangi: So upgrade those :) |
| 08:42 |
|
kivilahtio |
I prefer apt-get upgrade :) |
| 08:44 |
|
rangi |
if they really wanted to run on an rpm based distro, they should package the modules |
| 08:44 |
|
rangi |
and get them into fedora |
| 08:44 |
|
fridolin |
kivilahtio: I would like to make it work, I think it is possible |
| 08:44 |
|
rangi |
just like we have been doing with debian |
| 08:45 |
|
fridolin |
but I think we should work on a standalone perl env for Koha |
| 08:45 |
|
rangi |
https://qa.debian.org/develope[…]n@catalyst.net.nz |
| 08:45 |
|
rangi |
https://qa.debian.org/develope[…]c@catalyst.net.nz |
| 08:45 |
|
rangi |
etc |
| 08:47 |
|
rangi |
i think getting the modules packaged as rpm would benefit more than just koha users, so is a worthy thing to do, but i dont have time to do that |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:01 |
|
magnuse |
hei brinxmat |
| 09:01 |
|
akafred |
At OPL we're putting Koha in Docker. Inside Docker it's debian, but outside it is ubuntu (but could be redhat or centos or anything that runs Docker). |
| 09:01 |
|
magnuse |
fridolin: what do you mean by "standalone perl env"? |
| 09:02 |
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| 09:02 |
|
fridolin |
magnuse: all dependances in /usr/local/share/perl |
| 09:02 |
|
akafred |
kivilahtio: ^^^^ |
| 09:04 |
|
magnuse |
fridolin: would something like https://metacpan.org/pod/Pinto be relevant? |
| 09:04 |
|
fridolin |
since perl is a source code, it is not linked to the OS |
| 09:05 |
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brinxmat |
hei magnuse |
| 09:10 |
|
fridolin |
magnuse: I dont know this, maybe good indeed |
| 09:12 |
|
fridolin |
akafred: we are using LXC in local for dev and production, also Ubuntu for host and Debian for guest |
| 09:14 |
|
rangi |
fridolin: that's fine if you want to be in charge of monitoring all the security updates on all the modules in there |
| 09:15 |
|
akafred |
ah cool, Docker is sort of a nicer packaging around e.g lxc |
| 09:15 |
|
rangi |
personally i like the fact that debian-security keep an eye on them |
| 09:15 |
|
rangi |
as would the fedora team if they were packaged as rpm |
| 09:16 |
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fridolin |
rangi: which solution is fine ? |
| 09:17 |
|
rangi |
standalone perl env |
| 09:18 |
|
rangi |
it's only fine if you want to monitor cpan for all the updates (especially security) personally id much rather get the modules as part of a distribution |
| 09:18 |
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| 09:18 |
|
rangi |
and have many more eyes on them |
| 09:22 |
|
brinxmat |
Question regarding authorized values: Does the interface provide any method of validating input? |
| 09:22 |
|
akafred |
I would say Koha in Docker increases security. The host needs a lot less packages (Koha & dependencies), and the guest (inside Docker) has limited access to the host and doesn't even run ssh etc. |
| 09:23 |
|
magnuse |
brinxmat: nope, you can't say e.g. "this authorized value should only contain integers" |
| 09:23 |
|
rangi |
akafred: sure as long as you are still using the packaged modules, not compiling from source and then forgetting to update them |
| 09:24 |
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fridolin |
akafred: secure indeed |
| 09:25 |
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| 09:25 |
|
brinxmat |
magnuse: spot on |
| 09:25 |
|
rangi |
personally im happy that debian security exists, and am more than willing to have their help |
| 09:25 |
|
akafred |
But we're mostly using Docker for other benefits - e g we can test a new Koha-in-docker image (with updated packages) before pushing to production - and be more confident everything keeps working. Also we can move dockerized applications between servers, and even run applications with conflicting requirements. |
| 09:27 |
|
brinxmat |
magnuse: I'm assuming there are authorized values that have special status in Koha, i.e. the categories are not just arbitrary names, is this correct? |
| 09:28 |
|
rangi |
and of course i was talking about stand alone perl devs not docker anyway, i dont know anyone who isnt doing virtualisation of some sort, be it container based or heavier like xen or kvm |
| 09:30 |
|
magnuse |
brinxmat: yeah, there are lots of authorized values that have to be present for koha to work properly |
| 09:30 |
|
* rangi |
heads to sleep |
| 09:31 |
|
brinxmat |
magnuse: has there been an effort to provide validation for data entry in these? |
| 09:31 |
|
magnuse |
not that i know of, but i might have missed it |
| 09:31 |
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| 09:32 |
|
magnuse |
it's the sort of thing where i think we tend to assume data will be entered by people who know what they are doing :-) |
| 09:33 |
|
brinxmat |
magnuse: "we tend to assume data will be entered by people who know what they are doing", come on, it's me you're talking to :D |
| 09:35 |
|
magnuse |
:-) |
| 09:36 |
|
magnuse |
i'm sure noone would object to a patch that makes data validation possible :-) |
| 09:37 |
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| 09:54 |
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| 09:54 |
|
mveron |
hi #koha |
| 09:55 |
|
mveron |
Question regarding "Commands provided by the Debian packages": Do they work on Ubuntu as well? - http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]e_Debian_packages |
| 10:00 |
|
magnuse |
mveron: yes |
| 10:01 |
|
mveron |
Thanks, magnuse :-) |
| 10:01 |
|
bigbrovar |
Hi guys, I noticed that some patrons in koha (3.16 debian packages) are unable to place items on hold.. while others (in same categories ) are able to. what could be wrong? |
| 10:02 |
|
bigbrovar |
I checked the circulation rules and all seem fine.. like I said but patrons are from same categories |
| 10:05 |
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| 10:15 |
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| 10:19 |
|
BobB |
bigbrovar, are the borrowers in the same category at the same branch, trying to reserve the same items? |
| 10:19 |
|
BobB |
the items are not 'Not for Loan' and the borrowers have not reached their 'holds' limit? |
| 10:19 |
|
bigbrovar |
yes.. it but different branches |
| 10:20 |
|
BobB |
or have oustanding fines beyond their limit? |
| 10:20 |
|
bigbrovar |
it is same items.. same categories .. no fines at all |
| 10:20 |
|
bigbrovar |
I think its because they are from different branches |
| 10:20 |
|
BobB |
then I would compare the issuing rules for the different branches |
| 10:21 |
|
BobB |
there is also a system preference, iirc, that allows holds on other branches |
| 10:21 |
|
bigbrovar |
ok... or could there be a setting preventing a patron from one branch from placing on hold an item from another branch |
| 10:21 |
|
BobB |
i.e. if the borrower and item are in different branches, a hold might not be allowed |
| 10:21 |
|
bigbrovar |
BobB: yeah I think thats it |
| 10:21 |
|
bigbrovar |
I just have to find that settings :) |
| 10:23 |
|
BobB |
check the Global System Preferences at Circulation/Holds Policy |
| 10:23 |
|
bigbrovar |
BobB: Thanks |
| 10:24 |
|
BobB |
also at Administration/Circulation and Fines Rules there are default holds policies on two places on that page, if they have been populated |
| 11:15 |
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| 11:39 |
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| 12:27 |
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| 12:28 |
|
tcohen |
morning |
| 12:30 |
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| 12:42 |
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magnuse |
hola tcohen |
| 12:47 |
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| 13:06 |
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| 13:19 |
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Joubu |
@later tell khall patch submited on bug 13726 ;) |
| 13:19 |
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huginn |
Joubu: The operation succeeded. |
| 13:19 |
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| 13:24 |
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tcohen |
hi Joubu |
| 13:29 |
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| 14:21 |
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Shane-S |
quick question...on an item the damage status says |
| 14:21 |
|
Shane-S |
choose...but nothing is listed, where do I populate that field at in the admin side? |
| 14:23 |
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| 14:46 |
|
Shane-S |
is it quite or am I connected to nothing? |
| 14:46 |
|
Shane-S |
p.s. found it, under admin > basic > authorized values |
| 15:01 |
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| 15:17 |
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tcohen |
back |
| 15:18 |
|
* tcohen |
is tempted to remove the "CREATE USER.." part for the --use-db switch of koha-create, it makes no sense. At all |
| 15:23 |
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| 15:42 |
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fridolin |
see u |
| 15:42 |
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| 15:43 |
|
barton |
good morning, #koha |
| 15:48 |
|
barton |
I have a library who is trying to do a keyword search for 'A spool of blue thread', which fails, but 'spool of blue thread' succeeds. |
| 15:48 |
|
tcohen |
morning barton |
| 15:48 |
|
barton |
If I specify title: search.pl?idx=ti&q=A+Spool+of+Blue+Thread&op=and&idx=kw ... I get results as well. |
| 15:49 |
|
barton |
morning tcohen! |
| 15:49 |
|
barton |
this happens in both OPAC and staff client. |
| 15:50 |
|
barton |
Other searches using articles, such as 'The Help' are successful. |
| 15:52 |
|
tcohen |
What do u have in etc/zebradb/lang_defs/en/sort-string-utf.chr for A? |
| 15:52 |
|
tcohen |
map (^A\s) @ ? |
| 15:53 |
|
barton |
tcohen: I'll take a look. |
| 15:55 |
|
barton |
map (^a\s) @ |
| 15:55 |
|
barton |
map (^A\s) @ |
| 15:57 |
|
* tcohen |
is reading the zebra docs for map files |
| 16:01 |
|
reiveune |
bye |
| 16:01 |
|
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| 16:01 |
|
barton |
zebra docs: where angels fear to tread. |
| 16:02 |
|
tcohen |
heh, not that bad |
| 16:02 |
|
tcohen |
barton: please put a @later for dcook with the situation |
| 16:10 |
|
barton |
tcohen: will do. |
| 16:13 |
|
barton |
@later tell dcook strengeness with keyword search: 'A spool of blue thread', which fails, but 'spool of blue thread' succeeds... but when I specify title -- search.pl?idx=ti&q=A+Spool+of+Blue+Thread I get results. tcohen looked at etc/zebradb/lang_defs/en/sort-string-utf.chr and asked me to @later you on it. |
| 16:13 |
|
huginn |
barton: The operation succeeded. |
| 16:38 |
|
barton |
tcohen: never mind ... the library in question is still on 3.12 with a lot of custom code. I can't replicate the issue anywhere else. |
| 16:39 |
|
barton |
@later tell dcook never mind ... the library in question is still on 3.12 with a lot of custom code. I can't replicate the issue anywhere else. |
| 16:39 |
|
huginn |
barton: The operation succeeded. |
| 16:41 |
|
barton |
I fear for Hugin, that he come not back, yet more anxious am I for Munin. |
| 16:41 |
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mveron |
@wunder Allschwil |
| 16:41 |
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huginn |
mveron: The current temperature in Wetter Allschwil, Allschwil, Switzerland is 1.7°C (5:41 PM CET on February 18, 2015). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: -3.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 30.60 in 1036 hPa (Steady). |
| 17:23 |
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bag |
morning |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:12 |
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drojf |
kivilahtio: can you elaborate a little on what the plans are for the koha party in may? |
| 18:13 |
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| 18:30 |
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magnuse |
bag: HI |
| 18:30 |
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wahanui |
hey, magnuse |
| 18:31 |
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magnuse |
barton: channeling Odin? |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:32 |
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barton |
magnuse: chenneling wikipedia ;-) |
| 18:32 |
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barton |
not sure who would win in a fight. |
| 18:33 |
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magnuse |
hehe |
| 18:34 |
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* cait |
waves |
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* mveron |
waves |
| 19:17 |
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* mveron |
would like to see Bug 11400 "Out of discussion" :-) |
| 19:17 |
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huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11400 trivial, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, In Discussion , Show "Login as a different user" instead of "Logout" if not enough premissions |
| 19:20 |
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rangi |
whats holding it up? |
| 19:20 |
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* rangi |
has to leave soon to take kids to school but will read back |
| 19:27 |
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drojf |
hi mveron. now that you added a patch you should switch it to needs signoff |
| 19:27 |
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drojf |
if somebody wants to have more discussion they will probably let you know ;) |
| 19:29 |
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mveron |
drojf:Ok, will do... |
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* cait |
waves |
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rangi |
back |
| 20:48 |
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* magnuse |
waves |
| 20:49 |
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rangi |
hi magnuse |
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| 21:01 |
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magnuse |
hiya rangi |
| 21:02 |
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magnuse |
rangi++ for shooting down some ebsco-related fud on linkedin |
| 21:03 |
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cait |
very successfully too :) |
| 21:04 |
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rangi |
years of practice |
| 21:04 |
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magnuse |
:-) |
| 21:04 |
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cait |
:) |
| 21:07 |
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eythian |
hi |
| 21:07 |
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wahanui |
salut, eythian |
| 21:08 |
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cait |
morning eythian |
| 21:09 |
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magnuse |
kia ora eythian |
| 21:12 |
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eythian |
kivilahtio: you're going to have to have more patience. |
| 21:12 |
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* mveron |
says good night / daytime / worldtime to everybody |
| 21:13 |
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rangi |
cya mveron |
| 21:13 |
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mveron |
:-) |
| 21:17 |
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| 21:21 |
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eythian |
aww, I've got to go back to doing terrible SAML work today. I was so close to having basic authority searching working properly |
| 21:21 |
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eythian |
in es |
| 21:22 |
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wizzyrea |
sadface |
| 21:23 |
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* magnuse |
too |
| 21:24 |
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eythian |
(I did discover that the way authority search is handled is naturally totally different to the way normal search is handled. That is very annoying to me. |
| 21:24 |
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eythian |
) |
| 21:26 |
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magnuse |
special cases for all the things! |
| 21:27 |
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magnuse |
eythian: is handled = is handled in koha-with-zebra? |
| 21:28 |
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eythian |
yeah |
| 21:28 |
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eythian |
I suppose it does have different requirements |
| 21:29 |
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eythian |
e.g. counting the number of records that match (still unsure how I'm going to implement that.) |
| 21:29 |
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* magnuse |
should get around to reading that bok about es |
| 21:31 |
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eythian |
ES is one of those tricky projects that is 80% documented. It always seems to explain everything except that one thing that your case really needs. |
| 21:36 |
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magnuse |
sounds like fun |
| 21:38 |
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drojf |
eythian: there is this "filemaker -- the missing manual" book. horrible people telling you all the time how great filemaker is and how great you are for using filemaker and once in a while explaining things. maybe you would like to do "the missing 20% of ES docuentation" while you're working on the rest ;) |
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| 22:06 |
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timmmy |
Hi. Can someone help me find the XSLT files? |
| 22:09 |
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wizzyrea |
how did you install Koha? |
| 22:10 |
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timmmy |
according to http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian |
| 22:11 |
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wizzyrea |
/usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/en/xslt/MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl for example |
| 22:11 |
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eythian |
run: dpkg -L koha-common | grep xslt |
| 22:11 |
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wizzyrea |
or that |
| 22:13 |
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timmmy |
great! thanks! |
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* Francesca |
waves |
| 23:59 |
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Francesca |
hello! |
