IRC log for #koha, 2014-08-22

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:25 irma__ joined #koha
00:39 rangi officially had it with that attitude from paula
00:39 rangi paul A even :) paula is fine
00:42 rangi his derailing of discussions with offtopic rants
01:12 indradg lol.... my first "hazing" by great paul a
01:14 rangi :)
01:14 rangi it happens to everyone
01:16 dcook joined #koha
01:17 indradg rangi: help! /me is reading[…]_bz_configuration
01:17 rangi yep
01:17 indradg i've kohaclone on $HOME
01:17 indradg created a branch l2c2master on that
01:18 indradg worked a bit.. git added my new files
01:18 indradg have not committed (local) anything yet
01:18 rangi right
01:19 indradg I've configed
01:19 indradg cd ed into kohaclone
01:19 indradg now what
01:19 wahanui now is good time with holidays coming up
01:20 rangi you need to just commit as usual
01:20 rangi but instead of doing the git format-patch step
01:20 rangi you just do
01:20 rangi git bz attach -e bugnumber HEAD
01:20 rangi or HEAD^ or whatever commit you want to attach
01:21 indradg that's it?
01:21 dcook[…]ubmitting_a_patch
01:21 rangi thats it
01:22 indradg cool!
01:22 eythian wahanui: ftp is <reply>
01:22 wahanui OK, eythian.
01:23 * dcook wonders if all of Arnott's Shapes are hexagons...
01:23 indradg rangi: this is what got me confused -> git checkout -b bug_xxxx origin/master
01:23 indradg :)
01:24 jcamins AAAAARRRRGGHHHH!!! My new phone has a different way of showing filtered messages.
01:24 rangi well you should be developing on branches .. not on master .. but how you decide to manage your local dev is up to you
01:25 jcamins Separate branch. Definitely.
01:26 eythian always and forever
01:26 indradg I'm already doing that
01:27 indradg so, lemme get gthis... what will do, is to ease the git format patch submission process and go one-on-one with the bug id in question?
01:27 jcamins indradg: okay, you're fine then. :)
01:27 indradg thanks rangi, dcoo, jcamins :)
01:27 indradg dcook:
01:30 dcook :)
01:30 dcook git bz is awesome
01:30 dcook jcamins: That sucks about your phone :/
01:31 jcamins dcook: well at least I know now.
01:32 jcamins Alas, I found out on what I think might be a new low.
01:32 dcook A new low?
01:32 dcook How so?
01:32 dcook Maybe you haven't given it a fair go?
01:33 jcamins dcook: oh, right. You get the digest.
01:33 dcook Ah, not anymore.
01:33 dcook Damn, I broke my rhyme...
01:34 * dcook comprehends the new low statement now.
01:34 indradg one last dumbass question: say I have created two files - and, should i simply add them with git add <filename> or should I use `git add -A`
01:34 jcamins indradg: I always add things by file name.
01:34 dcook Yeah, me too
01:34 eythian me too
01:34 eythian otherwise I'll get unrelated crap sucked in by accident
01:34 dcook Although if I'm committing, I often use -a
01:35 dcook Like... 1) git add <filename> 2) do some work on files 3) git commit -a
01:35 jcamins The time I accidentally committed several megabytes NYTProf stuff broke me of the -A habit.
01:35 jcamins Also blib.
01:35 dcook .gitignore :D
01:35 jcamins dcook: no one had told me about .gitignore back then.
01:35 dcook Ouch :(
01:35 dcook Admittedly, I think I committed blib as well, but only locally
01:37 indradg thanks :-)  I wasn't sure I wanted to add all of that with an -A
01:37 dcook Indeed :)
01:38 eythian most of those should be .gitignored
01:38 dcook ^
01:38 indradg thank you all for the 'legup' :D
01:38 eythian (as in, someone ought to go add them to .gitignore, not something's wrong and that's why you're seeing them.)
01:38 pastebot "dcook" at pasted "contents of .gitignore" (5 lines) at
01:39 dcook I think that would do the trick
01:39 eythian yeah, also the existing stuff
01:39 eythian *~ and .*.swp or something
01:40 dcook yeah, I have a *.bak for something I think..
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01:41 * dcook hearts git
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02:35 tcohen @Snider Córdoba, Argentina
02:35 huginn tcohen: I've exhausted my database of quotes
02:38 tcohen dcook: can u take a look at bug 12788?
02:38 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12788 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Refine search displays 4xx fields from authority records
02:39 dcook tcohen: I could. Why do you ask? :)
02:40 dcook tcohen: Or do you mean in terms of testing?
02:40 tcohen Looking for peer review, and possibly testing. Whatever you're up to
02:42 dcook Ahh, I see. You've moved the facet code a bit? Cool :)
02:42 tcohen Exactly, it is more efficient. A lot
02:42 tcohen And fixes the bug, heh
02:42 tcohen It's difficult to type on the phone
02:44 dcook I was wondering when AndroUser turned into tcohen ;)
02:44 tcohen Heh
02:44 dcook Well, I have a fair bit on my plate for today still, I think, but I'll make a note to myself to check it out early next week
02:45 tcohen Fair enough, it is not going to be on 3.16.3 anyway I guess
02:47 tcohen Ah Swype feature: multiple simultaneous languages
02:48 tcohen Night
02:48 dcook Ooo, that could be handy
02:48 dcook night tcohen :)
02:48 dcook Hope the three of you are well
02:49 eythian swiftkey has that too
03:01 dcook eythian: what keyboard do you use on your tablet?
03:01 eythian swiftkey
03:01 dcook I thought I would like writing emails more on a tablet than a phone, but I can't stand it so far :/
03:01 dcook (great for reading comics though :D)
03:02 dcook Is that are in the Play store?
03:02 eythian yeah
03:02 eythian typing on a tablet still sucks
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03:12 dcook Dinger :/
03:12 dcook Well, since my laptop got stolen, I have incentive to get a new one now :p
03:12 dcook Maybe after I get back from Europe..
03:15 wizzyrea I don't mind the built in swype thing
03:15 wizzyrea good for when I'm 1 handed typing on the bus.
03:17 dcook batch checkout?
03:17 dcook Hmm
03:17 dcook @query batch checkout
03:17 huginn dcook: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3514 new feature, P3, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Returning items through patron Details tab doesn't activate all circulation functions
03:17 huginn dcook: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7676 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, In Discussion , Barcode Prefixes
03:17 huginn dcook: Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10612 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add ability to delete patrons with batch patron deletion tool
03:17 huginn dcook: Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11759 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Patch doesn't apply , Batch checkout
03:17 dcook aha
03:31 wizzyrea actually supposedly there are poets on the buses today.
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03:52 dcook Poets on the buses, wizzyrea?
03:53 wizzyrea yeah for national poetry day
03:53 dcook Interesting. What are they doing? Writing, reciting, being conveyed places?
03:53 wizzyrea reciting, I think
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03:59 dcook wizzyrea: Cool :)
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04:50 indradg @seen tcohen
04:50 huginn indradg: tcohen was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 2 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <tcohen> Night
04:53 indradg @later tell tcohen you are working on[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6815 ?
04:53 huginn indradg: The operation succeeded.
04:53 huginn Bug 6815: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , Capture member photo via webcam
06:03 ashimema morning #koha
06:03 dcook allo ashimema
06:04 ashimema dcook!.. Hows it hangin''
06:05 dcook Not too bad. Yourself?
06:05 ashimema not bad either..
06:06 ashimema though I'm currently fighting with server which doesnt want to be dragged kicking and screaming onto wheexy from squeeze
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06:27 reiveune joined #koha
06:27 reiveune hello
06:27 wahanui bonjour, reiveune
06:42 dcook ashimema: That sucks :/
06:42 dcook hey reiveune
06:42 wahanui rumour has it reiveune is working for biblibre
06:42 reiveune salut dcook
06:42 ashimema currently running up against the update-perl-sex-parsers missing problem.
06:42 ashimema :(
06:42 dcook update-perl-sex-parsers?
06:43 dcook I can't remember if I installed Koha before or after I upgraded to Wheezy...but I recall it going fairly smoothly
06:45 dcook Recently thinking about switching to Ubuntu 14.04 (for my desktop) as it has way better MTP support than Debian Wheezy. Hopefully Jessie will be better than Wheezy though, so undecided on whether or not to just hold off...
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07:10 ashimema I use ubuntu to my desktop and debian for any servers.
07:10 ashimema got the bugger..
07:11 ashimema it's a know squeeze to wheezy issue that randomly happens apparently.
07:11 ashimema I had to grab an old version of that script from another server.. let apt sort itself out using it.. then remove the script again..
07:11 ashimema all very madening..
07:13 dcook Weird. Maybe I updated at just the right time then.
07:13 dcook Yeah, maybe when I get back from holiday I'll switch over to Ubuntu for my desktop
07:13 dcook What DE do you use?
07:14 dcook I really like Gnome3 on Debian so far. LXDE was good with Ubuntu for a netbook, and KDE always seems all right.
07:14 dcook Tried Unity a bit but wasn't a fan
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07:29 smayo on a packaged there anything special that needs to be done with user edited help entries when upgrading?
07:44 dcook Friday night! Time to run. Enjoy your Friday/weekend, peeps.
07:44 ashimema I didn't like unity..
07:44 ashimema missed him
07:56 indradg what is Unity?
07:56 wahanui Unity is better now than the first iteration; the first was really flakey, but with some recent updates and a better working knowledge of it it seems to be better.
07:56 indradg :)
07:56 indradg @wunder Kolkata
07:56 huginn indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 32.0°C (1:20 PM IST on August 22, 2014). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 27.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Falling).
07:57 ashimema @wunder steveange, uk
07:57 huginn ashimema: Error: No such location could be found.
07:57 ashimema @wunder stevenage, uk
07:57 huginn ashimema: The current temperature in Pin Green, Stevenage, United Kingdom is 13.6°C (8:50 AM BST on August 22, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
07:58 ashimema Unity is just rubbish with multiple monitors.. and doesn't really do the workspaces stuff i've got really used to
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08:38 eythian ashimema: I've had no problem with unity on multiple monitors
08:39 ashimema really.. ?
08:39 eythian yep
08:39 eythian plug it in and it works
08:39 eythian there are some settings you can use to make it easier for your use case
08:39 ashimema it always gave me a real run around.. windows randomly changing monitor for no aparent reason.
08:39 ashimema I'm pretty happy with gnome shell to be honest..
08:40 eythian e.g. stopping the stickyness when moving the mouse between screens which is surprising if you aren't used to it.
08:40 eythian fair enough
08:40 ashimema just wish it was a little more stable with my graphics setp.
08:40 ashimema the only thing I sort of like about unity is the hud..
08:40 ashimema would like to see that ported ;)
08:41 eythian I love the idea of the hud, I just find I rarely use it
08:41 eythian though, when I'm using unity it's very casual use for the most part.
08:41 eythian my work desktop is xmonad, it's only my laptop and home desktop that use unity
08:42 ashimema yeah.. that's kinda why I never bothered making the switch.. that was the main thing I liked the sound of.. but i didn't seem to use it enough to warrant using the entire de
08:42 eythian (xmonad is pretty rigid, but that suits work where I'm mostly doing sets of specific things.)
08:42 eythian the keyboard shortcuts in unity are nice
08:42 ashimema I really like gnome shell.. I tihnk their take on workspaces is the simplest to use personally.
08:42 eythian super+number launches that numbered thing on the launcher, for example
08:43 eythian I've not used that. At home I rarely use workspaces, at work everything is workspaces, but one thing unity can't do is let me say "put worspace 1 on the left monitor, workspace 8 on the right one."
08:43 eythian which xmonad can
08:45 Joubu xmonad is not easy to configure, but awesome or flwm look easier
08:45 eythian it's not easy to configure, it took me a day or so to get it how I liked, but now I don't change it :)
08:45 eythian I should learn haskell, that'll make it easier.
08:46 Joubu same I spent 2 weeks :) But now I really love my configuration!
08:46 eythian heh
08:46 eythian it's super fast to work with now
08:47 ashimema I keep pocking at xmonad and similar..
08:47 ashimema not taken the full plung yet though..
08:47 ashimema should do at some point.
08:47 eythian yeah, you need to, otherwise it's too easy to put it off
08:48 Joubu you can use xmonad in gnome shell I think, so no excuse to try :)
08:50 eythian I ran it under unity to start with
08:50 eythian found that that was unnecessary
08:51 eythian now I do run it with a basic gnome environment, but just to get theming etc, no widgets.
08:51 eythian Have I shown you folks my neat arduino LED server traffic display?
08:53 eythian <-- if I haven't, that's it running. But it's Friday evening, so very low traffic (it's essentially plotting the access log hits in the past 60 seconds and the peak for the past hour.)
08:54 Joubu haha, excellent!
08:54 eythian I have a 2M (120 LED) strip looking for a project. If you have any ideas, @later them to me, I'm heading off now.
08:54 eythian (the one in the picture is 1M (60 LED)
08:54 eythian )
09:04 eythian phew, I nearly forgot to print my beervana ticket for tomorrow
09:04 eythian that was close
09:14 ashimema [ajax circ.. what bug is that.. what version is it in/aimed for?
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09:57 Oak awesome LED thing eythian
09:57 Oak love it. never even imagined it before.
09:58 Oak i wonder what's that single purple led that on in the middle for?
10:03 magnuse ashimema: bug 11703?
10:03 wahanui hmmm... bug 11703 is waiting for an answer, I started QA on it :)
10:03 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11703 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Convert checkouts table to ajax datatable
10:03 magnuse see also bug 11759
10:03 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11759 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Patch doesn't apply , Batch checkout
10:03 ashimema cheers magnuse.. that's the one..
10:04 ashimema the second one I spotted..
10:04 ashimema haven't worked out what state it's in yet..
10:04 magnuse denial
10:05 magnuse Oak: my guess is the purple one is "the peak for the past hour"
10:06 magnuse i splurged on some hue bulbs earlier this summer, plan on having them show my icinga status
10:07 magnuse
10:07 Oak oooh that makes sense. very cool. thanks magnuse!
10:07 Oak denial state. hah. that's funny.
10:08 magnuse eythian++ for the access log thing
10:09 Joubu ashimema: about the batch checkout enh, I am waiting for an answer from pianohacker. But not sure he saw my comment.
10:10 ashimema k,, cheers for the update
10:12 Oak not funny of course if it's an actual option in bugzilla
10:12 Oak i'll check now
10:13 * magnuse does not think it is ;-)
10:13 Oak :)
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11:28 saa can someone guide me why my opac is not showing any results
11:29 saa is there a way to figure out what is going wrong
11:29 saa i tried rebuild-zebra
11:29 saa but still no luck
11:29 saa my zebra-error.log also not updating with any new lines than  library-koha-zebra: client (pid 30471) killed by signal 15, stopping
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11:41 drojf hi #koha
11:42 drojf so using tor browser helps against the berlin state library firewall, good to know :D
11:48 drojf i assume all the talking takes place in the google group these days :)
11:53 magnuse drojf: nah, we moved to the linkedin group ;-)
11:53 * magnuse wanders off
11:54 drojf magnuse: i would have preferred facebook chat :D
12:16 Joubu jcamins: around?
12:17 jcamins Eh. Briefly, maybe.
12:17 jcamins What's up?
12:17 Joubu jcamins: I'm QAing bug 10402
12:17 jcamins Yay!
12:17 Joubu I don't understand the UT in Letters.t
12:17 Joubu actually the notice is generated using the first contact defined, that's it?
12:17 jcamins Which one?
12:17 wahanui Which one is that? The fixed navbar?
12:18 Joubu The last one, l.337
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12:18 jcamins It's based on the claimacquisition field.
12:18 Joubu The way you wrote it, it looks like you get the contact where claimacquisition is 1
12:19 jcamins Right, that's what it's supposed to do. Was there a merge conflict that has it not doing that anymore?
12:19 Joubu jcamins: the ut pass
12:19 Joubu but I was just wondering
12:19 Joubu (I fixed the conflict)
12:19 jcamins Joubu++
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12:20 Joubu jcamins: If I swap the 2 contacts (on adding the bookseller), the tests don't pass
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12:21 Joubu jcamins: but forget it, I will deep into the code! :)
12:21 jcamins Hmm.
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12:26 jcamins Joubu: obvious question, but you changed the code that modifies the contact later to change the second contact, right?
12:27 jcamins (when you swapped the order)
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12:37 Joubu jcamins: (sorry for the delay) I just swapped the 2 contacts in the UT file. I expected that the tests still pass, but it's not the case.
12:38 jcamins Joubu: do you mean just swapped the two lines?
12:38 Joubu jcamins: yes
12:38 jcamins Joubu: There's another line you'll need to change to swap the contacts:
12:38 jcamins $bookseller->{'contacts'}->[1]->email('');
12:38 jcamins (that's changed)
12:39 jcamins Right now it says: $bookseller->{'contacts'}->[0]->email('');
12:39 Joubu jcamins: arf, silly me!
12:39 Joubu yes you are right, it's better now. thanks
12:39 jcamins Yay! :D
12:40 Joubu jcamins: I need to fix my exim config in order to verify there is no regression on sending emails, but all look good at the moment.
12:40 jcamins Joubu: you poor man. exim. :P
12:41 Joubu jcamins: the easier to configure :)
12:41 Joubu easiest
12:41 jcamins Heh. I've been told that, but I never had any luck with it. Postfix for me. :)
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13:09 tcohen morning!
13:09 wahanui morning is a state of the cait
13:10 tcohen @later tell indradg I halted that work for now, need to focus on other stuff for 3.18
13:10 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
13:30 tcohen hi ashimema
13:31 ashimema hi tcohen
13:31 ashimema any dbic pros about?.. anyone know if you can override a relationship from the caller?
13:32 ashimema i.e.. I've got a script where I want to ->copy a dbic row which has a has_many relationship within it..
13:33 tcohen @later tell rangi about bad paul's email
13:33 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
13:33 ashimema I wan't to override the cascade_copy for just that run..  can't find it in the docs so wondered if anyone here could advise?
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13:53 oleonard Hi #koha
14:03 tcohen ho oleonard
14:21 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12576: Update opac.css file <[…]399cb18451c017746> / Bug 12576: Make the more/fewer options and "new search" links on the advanced search... <[…]f2990b3770e03684f> / Bug 12776: Capitalization: Confirmation messages in circulation <http://git.koha-communit
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15:08 reiveune bye
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15:59 indradg @seen tcohen
15:59 huginn indradg: tcohen was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 56 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <tcohen> ho oleonard
16:00 indradg tcohen: around?
16:01 tcohen hi indradg
16:01 indradg hi
16:01 wahanui niihau, indradg
16:01 indradg what is indradg?
16:01 wahanui rumour has it indradg is the one who told me
16:01 indradg lol
16:03 indradg tcohen: i was looking for that feature, need it in a project... since you are busy with 3.18, would you mind if I tried my hand at it?
16:03 indradg I'm not sure how far i would be able to go yet, being all new to Koha programming and all that :)
16:04 tcohen indradg: i can give you the patches I already have
16:04 tcohen i might attach them to the bug
16:04 indradg tcohen: that would be fab actually!
16:04 tcohen there were two things missing:
16:05 indradg ok
16:05 tcohen 1) test for html5 access to camera support (so the widget doesn't get loaded and tell it cannot access camera)
16:05 tcohen 2) layout
16:05 indradg alright!
16:08 jcamins Why does Koha need access to a camera?
16:08 indradg tcohen: please attach the patches to bug 6815
16:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6815 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , Capture member photo via webcam
16:08 jcamins Ah.
16:08 indradg jcamins: ^^^
16:09 oleonard C4/
16:10 indradg jcamins: plus I'm planning to add a syspref to capture a picture of the person checkin / checking out to restrict 'buddy punching' of the access card
16:12 indradg had some nasty business at an University client - person A comes in with B's access card, checks out with books under A. A files a police report that he was mugged and card stolen. The client lost about $1000 worth of imported books.
16:13 jcamins indradg: and it didn't occur to the university to put photographs of the students on their cards?
16:14 indradg it was a temp card used to an adjunct faculty while the photoid was in the works
16:14 indradg s/used/issued/
16:16 indradg jcamins: plus its a mindset issue as well - senior faculty members will often send in their orderly or research assistant to get books issued on the faculty member's card
16:16 jcamins indradg: okay, another silly question: if this is a serious concern, why doesn't the university just make a rule that adjuncts can't take out books until they pick up their permanent ID card?
16:17 jcamins indradg: that's very common here too, and the research assistants have to show *their* photo ID in order to do it.
16:17 jcamins And be pre-authorized by the professor.
16:17 jcamins (or come with an authorization letter)
16:18 indradg that is supposed to the rule here too. but in practicality it is not always followed very strictly.
16:19 indradg the circ desk stuff is often high school graduates or less and usually in awe of the mighty profs... as silly as that may sound to you
16:19 * jcamins makes a suitably dubious face about the effectiveness of eliminating patron privacy in preventing planned thefts.
16:21 indradg i know, i don't like it much myself
16:22 jcamins No, I can see that, but if the staff can't police based on photo IDs, I don't see how they're going to be any more effective at preventing theft when patron anonymity is eliminated.
16:23 jcamins I guess the idea is "we'll have a photograph of the person who checked out books during this session to give to law enforcement," but is a thief really going to stand there and pose?
16:23 jcamins (I know this isn't your problem, just thinking out loud)
16:23 indradg in this case, patron anonymity is already shot to smithereens! 12 cctv cameras inside the library stacks (open access) to prevent pilferage and damage and 3 uniformed security personnel
16:24 indradg too many cases where readers have torn out pages they need and left the book on the shelf
16:25 jcamins Security cameras don't necessarily provide a permanent record of who took out [controversial book].
16:25 indradg it does not, it is more of "security theatre" than anything
16:27 jcamins Yeah, but photographing every book transaction would. I guess maybe if you made it so that the photographs were controlled by the same anonymization bit as circ records...
16:35 indradg the idea is once the item is returned the photo would be "shredded"
16:36 jcamins How are the circ staff going to be taught/persuaded to make Very Important Professor stand still for his photo... ninety times in a row?
16:37 indradg there was even a couple of cases where the circ desk staff had an on-going tiff with one of the faculty. falsely "issued out" books which were actually never issued out, and then there was a merry-dance over it
16:39 jcamins I have a theory... the problem is your circ desk staff.
16:39 indradg i know!
16:40 jcamins :)
16:41 indradg very strongly unionized. can't replace unless there is any provable evidence of wrong-doing or "sleeping" at work and secondly
16:42 indradg space or the lack it it
16:42 indradg this is a way too common scenario in indian academic libraries
16:43 jcamins I'm not saying I've never heard of theft from libraries... in fact it's quite common... but I still find it hard to get my head around that.
16:44 indradg its a culture thing
16:46 indradg in india, the best run libraries are the ones that are run by the volunteers (usually from patrons after a certain length of membership)... but these are public librarie
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17:44 * magnuse_ waves
17:46 magnuse_ bag: HI
17:46 wahanui kia ora, magnuse_
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18:30 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D7 build #148: UNSTABLE in 46 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ha_Master_D7/148/
18:30 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12545: Add file to the source tree
18:30 jenkins_koha * Bug 12776: Capitalization: Confirmation messages in circulation
18:30 jenkins_koha * Sean Hamlin: Bug 12576: Make the more/fewer options and "new search" links on the advanced search page look better.
18:30 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 12576: Update opac.css file
18:30 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12545 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Master , Add EditorConfig file to the source tree
18:30 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12776 trivial, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Capitalization: confirmation messages in circulation
18:30 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12576 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, seanh, Pushed to Master , search links need style id
18:53 oleonard I hope indradg's question wasn't completely hijacked by that off-topic reply
18:54 * jcamins sends oleonard a cookie.
18:54 * magnuse_ should catch up on the lists
19:00 oleonard Bye #koha
19:22 tcohen have a nice weekend #koha
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19:45 datadoctor Hi datadoctor here. Is it OK to start a conversation with a gripe? I'm examining the messaging, or notifications process, and I am finding the interface illogical and unnecessary.
19:46 datadoctor For example you can set a delay on an advance notice - doesn't that conflict with the "takes_days" set by the patron in enhanced messaging preferences?
19:48 datadoctor And you can select a "Second Item Due Reminder" as the first letter, and a [first] "Item Due Reminder" as the second letter.
19:48 datadoctor You can select a reserve slip as an overdue letter.
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19:49 datadoctor I'm examining the messaging, or notifications process, and I am finding the interface illogical and unnecessary.
19:49 datadoctor For example you can set a delay on an advance notice - doesn't that conflict with the "takes_days" set by the patron in enhanced messaging preferences?
19:49 datadoctor And you can select a "Second Item Due Reminder" as the first letter, and a [first] "Item Due Reminder" as the second letter.
19:49 * cait waves
19:49 datadoctor Hi!
19:49 cait they are different things
19:49 cait advanced notices are separate from overdues
19:50 cait you have predue = those take days, as they are the only ones send before the due date
19:50 cait then you have due - those are send on the date the item is due
19:50 cait and then you have overdues - those are always sent after the due date
19:50 magnuse_ cait++
19:50 datadoctor Yes, that's why its amusing to select "Advance Notice of Item Due" as an overdue letter. Seems like that should not be possible.
19:50 cait the problem is the module
19:50 cait the pull down displays all letters in the circulation module
19:51 datadoctor These could be defined just like any other notice.
19:51 datadoctor All of the letters are edited in one interface.
19:51 cait the feature here is that you can have different letters for every notice level 1-3 and different patron categories
19:51 cait you don't have that granularity for other letters at this date
19:52 cait they are all or nothing with hardcoded notice codes - ovedues are more flexible
19:52 datadoctor But we have redundancy in the letters - you select a second letter, then assign it "Second Item Due" - so why not just assume that the second letter is the second reminder.
19:53 cait because you cna name your letters like you prefer to
19:53 cait and the codes can be freely chosen
19:53 cait there is no way to assume which is the correct letter
19:53 datadoctor Then you combine the "Delay" with the "takes_days" feature - negative values for advance notices, positive values for delayed notices.
19:53 cait yes, that would be a possible enhancement
19:54 jcamins datadoctor: this is one of those "if someone cared enough to pay for the massive amount of time it would take to change an interface that most people interact with only once a decade, it could be a lot better" things.
19:55 cait yeah, it would need funding
19:55 jcamins And testing.
19:55 wahanui testing is fun! or easier when you have a test plan. Hint hint.
19:55 datadoctor I get that this has been this way forever and changing it could be complicated.
19:56 datadoctor I'm just frustrated with it today, as we were planning to update to 3.16
19:56 datadoctor next week and now I hear that notifications has broken on the failover to print notices.
19:56 cait hm but 3.16 deoesn't change much there
19:56 cait it offers only new possibilities
19:56 datadoctor I like the new method of defining letters.
19:57 cait hm we are lookig for a tester there i thnk
19:58 datadoctor Each message_transport_type gets its own custom notice.
19:58 cait bug 12717 has a patch
19:58 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12717 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Library no longer receiving Overdue email for patrons without email address
19:58 cait that should allow to deal with print overdues as before
19:58 cait if you don't define one for print, the email one will be used (to myknowledge)
19:58 cait so there are some fallbacks
20:00 datadoctor According to Bywater, that's what's broken. However I am currently unable to verify in my test environment.
20:00 datadoctor The failover is failing.
20:00 datadoctor Some kind of interaction with the new multiple notices...?
20:01 datadoctor I haven't seen a bug on it yet though, so I may be mistaken.
20:03 cait i am not surei i have been out for a few days
20:05 datadoctor I see the Talking Tech is on the Notices and Slips editor as "phone" message, so that's a great feature.
20:06 jenkins_koha Yippee, build fixed!
20:06 wahanui o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
20:06 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D7 build #149: FIXED in 45 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ha_Master_D7/149/
20:07 datadoctor Congratulations.
20:11 datadoctor Maybe we could separate out the overdue notices and the "notices and slips" page. Flagging them for exclusive use on the overdue triggers page would make the 1st 2nd and 3rd letters interface more logical.
20:12 cait we could add a separatemodule to shorten the list of notice templates
20:13 cait well one could - i don't think something like that is planned at the moment
20:16 datadoctor Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I think I am wrapping my mind around the current system of notifications.
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20:25 cait datadoctor: we are not woring iwth it yet
20:25 cait we use all kinds of the notices, but not yet the changes in 3.16
20:25 cait hope you can figure it out
20:26 cait i tested recently all notices and the email ones seem to be ok
20:26 cait we don't do phone notifications - so can't tell about those
20:27 datadoctor I'm looking for efficiencies, rearranging elements from the enhanced messaging preferences, notices and slips and overdue triggers. But maybe we are close to perfect as is.
20:28 datadoctor We hope to implement phone notifications using a custom plug-in for Twilio - virtual phone number - reads scripts or takes recordings - used by Ebay and Yahoo customer service - automated.
20:29 datadoctor We'll have to patch it into the Itiva hooks.
20:30 datadoctor I like that it is included in the failover now.
20:31 datadoctor We generally use SMS > Email > Phone > Print Notice as our failover priorities for messaging.
20:31 cait phone notifications are not common in gemrany at all :)
20:32 datadoctor Phone costs less than postage here, so it's a stopgap before we send the physical letter.
20:33 datadoctor two cents vs 49 cents
20:34 datadoctor We do allow the patron to pick their messaging they can change from our defaults. Some patrons don't give us SMS or email - they are required to give us phone and mailing address.
20:38 datadoctor We make between 30 and 60 phone calls for overdues per day. Most of the calls go to voicemail as people are at work when we call. We're hoping to reposition that labor to be in-library patron-facing, and use robotic calling.
20:40 datadoctor Twilio stores pre-recorded messages in the cloud - you trigger their server with your ID, pw and phone list - the pre-recorded message is sent, and the patron name is generated by a text-to-voice feature.
20:42 datadoctor We wrote a compact PERL script to make the calls from Koha. You can specify different voices and languages as necessary.
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20:47 cait datadoctor: sounds useful
20:47 cait datadoctor: maybe interesting for othe rlibraires too?
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20:52 datadoctor Thanks cait. I appreciate the discussion on notifications. I think I will sleep on it before I start hammering out a radical, new system. Perhaps I can work with what we've got. I just want it to be easy for folks to configure, and logical.
20:53 cait small steps
20:53 wahanui small steps are going to be difficult... I'm not pushing anything that I can't even kind of test.
20:53 cait radical new systems seldomly work :)
20:54 cait in my experience, i am a friend of small steps :)
21:14 datadoctor have a good morning / good evening!
21:22 cait :)
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