IRC log for #koha, 2014-06-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:59 BobB @wunder Sydney, Australia
00:59 huginn BobB: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 16.0°C (10:30 AM EST on June 09, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Steady).
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01:00 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
01:01 mtompset @seen dcook
01:01 huginn mtompset: dcook was last seen in #koha 2 days, 18 hours, 8 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <dcook> yo reiveune
01:03 eythian mtompset: Class::ISA doesn't seem to be a dependency.
01:04 mtompset It was on an install attempt for me under Ubuntu 14.04
01:04 mtompset (if I recall correctly)
01:04 eythian robin@zarathud:~/catalyst/koha$ grep -r Class::ISA * | wc -l
01:04 eythian 0
01:05 mtompset Just a second... I'll attempt something.
01:06 * mtompset grumbles about 2 minute boot time, because of wanting to be flexible.
01:08 mtompset Oh... it probably isn't a koha dependency. It's probably a package up a perl library issue.
01:58 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "What does the suggested command mean?" (6 lines) at
01:58 mtompset eythian: Any ideas?
01:58 wahanui Any ideas are welcome :)
01:59 eythian yeah, it's a branch that became a directory with the same name
01:59 eythian try running git remote prune origin, though I don't know what it actually does.
02:16 mtompset Well, it worked, but I got a whole bunch of things "pruned".
02:17 eythian It's probably for the best...
02:24 rangi if you havent run that in a long time, or git gc, you will have had all the old branches that were archived
02:25 rangi[…]chive.git;a=heads all of those
02:51 jcamins wizzyrea: when you're the organizer and had months to plan, you don't get a bye that easily.
03:04 mtompset Yes, that looks like it, rangi.
03:12 wizzyrea jcamins: actually, if it's what I'm thinking of, and it was a live demo, I've actually done that. But I didn't have months to plan.
03:12 jcamins wizzyrea: oh, I missed some important context.
03:12 wizzyrea more like "oh by the way we want you to show this giant room the mobile app"
03:13 wizzyrea yeah context would be helpful ^.^
03:13 jcamins It was a hackathon. The entire point was that a bunch of people would be presenting interesting hacks they'd done.
03:14 jcamins The subject was a website.
03:14 jcamins They announced after everyone was there that they were using a document camera.
03:15 jcamins And it wasn't a cost thing... I think they spent over $100k.
03:15 wizzyrea we are talking about a thing that is kind of like an overhead projector, right?
03:15 jcamins Yes.
03:15 wizzyrea but digital
03:15 jcamins Which they brought in especially to project pictures of computer screens.
03:16 jcamins Exactly.
03:16 jcamins Ever pointed a digital video camera at a computer screen?
03:16 wizzyrea ok, then what is the proper way to put a phone interface on a projector?
03:16 eythian in bad cases, you'd get flicker
03:16 wizzyrea yes, actually
03:16 jcamins wizzyrea: that's fine if you're presenting on a phone.
03:16 wizzyrea the time I did this, there was no flicker, which may be why I'm a bit sympathetic to this
03:17 jcamins But there was no indication up-front that this was a mobile hackathon.
03:17 eythian it's ideal for a phone, because you can show ui. It seems dumb for a computer though.
03:17 jcamins I wouldn't have gone had I known.
03:17 jcamins eythian: exactly.
03:18 jcamins Fortunately when a sizable portion of the participants said "oh well, I guess we won't present... when's dinner?" they decided to set up the projector hookup.
03:18 wizzyrea wait they were pointing a document camera at a computer screen?
03:18 jcamins wizzyrea: yes!
03:18 wizzyrea oh I misunderstood I thought you were upset that they were pointing it at a phone.
03:19 wizzyrea :)
03:19 jcamins No, that's a good idea.
03:19 wizzyrea I was like, well that seems sensible.
03:19 jcamins What's dumb is pointing it at a computer.
03:19 jcamins They wanted two people... one to hold the laptop upside down, the other to type backwards.
03:19 wizzyrea uhhhh
03:19 wizzyrea ok yeah, that's not sensible.
03:20 mtj my brain hurts just thinking about that :0)
03:21 jcamins :)
03:21 jcamins Good night!
03:21 wahanui If you feel like someone is looking through your window, it's OK, it's just me.
03:21 mtj cya jcamins
03:36 mtompset wizzyrea: That's another way of thinking about bug 6874. :)
03:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Attach a file to a MARC record (Was: File upload in MARC)
04:33 wizzyrea nobody could find the bug with the old title.
04:38 eythian really it should be a biblio record I suppose
05:04 eythian @later tell tcohen how do you mean?
05:04 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
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05:46 paxed *grmbl* fun, just noticed Yet Another Conversion Problem. the due dates were set with time 00:00:00, when they should've been 23:59:00
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06:01 mtompset And with that horrible grammar moment, I think it is best to head to sleep.
06:01 mtompset dcook: 11592 is ready for testing. :)
06:02 mtompset @later tell dcook bug 11592 is ready for testing now.
06:02 huginn mtompset: The operation succeeded.
06:02 mtompset Have a great day, #koha eythian wizzyrea mtj
06:15 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:15 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 20.0°C (8:15 AM CEST on June 09, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
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06:36 reiveune hello
06:37 cait hi reiveune
06:37 cait holiday here today :)
06:37 reiveune here too, hi cait
06:37 cait oh nice :)
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06:54 Joubu Hi #koha
06:54 ashimema Morning Joubu
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07:00 yohann salut
07:01 cait hi yohann and ashimema
07:01 cait oh and hi Joubu
07:01 cait *reads back*
07:01 ashimema moring cait, morning yohann
07:02 * ashimema wishes google chrome would 'just work' the way it used to on this Ubuntu box.
07:05 * cait offers cookies
07:12 ashimema brb..
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07:20 gaetan_B hello
07:21 cait hi gaetan_B
07:21 cait everyone around on a holiday?
07:22 gaetan_B gaetan_B: hmmm, it's not really a holiday in France anymore but it used to be so a lot of people take a day off i guess
07:22 cait ah
07:22 gaetan_B not so many here at biblibre though
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07:26 fridolin hie all
07:27 cait hi fridolin
07:52 Tony joined #koha
07:53 Tony Greetings. I'm getting errors on staging marc for import: Filehandle STDOUT reopened as FH only for input at /usr/lib/perl5/Template/
07:53 Tony This is a clean install and we are trying to populate the db for the first time
07:54 Tony On Manage staged MARC records, the citations are null. Any thoughts?
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08:10 tony123 Greetings. I'm trying to do bulk import (file generated from MarcEdit) an on Stage MARC for import, I'm getting this error: Filehandle STDOUT reopened as FH only for input at /usr/lib/perl5/Template/
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08:11 tony123 In Manage staged MARC records, the Citation field is null for each record. The staging results shows items as 0
08:11 tony123 Any thoughts? This is a clean install and trying to import he data for the first time
08:28 paxed does anyone else find formats the date-fields in wrong format?
08:30 cait tony123: it#s hard to tell
08:30 cait are you importing a valid marc file?
08:30 cait in iso format?
08:30 cait paxed: there is a bug for that - the problem was the the proposed solution slowed down the notice generation quite a bit, so it got stuck I think
08:31 paxed cait: ugh. and one of the most visible notices for patrons, at that. sucks.
08:31 cait i can find the bug for you
08:32 tony123 I assume so... I used MarcEdit to build the file. I used the Z39.50 client to retrieve the ISBN data. It built file and decompiled file (back to the mrk file)
08:32 cait bug 11244
08:32 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11244 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , notices ignoring the dateformat preference
08:32 cait tony123: did you convert it to an mrc file after using marcedit?
08:32 cait or with marcedit?
08:33 tony123 I used marcedit to convert it to the mrc file
08:33 cait tony123: sorry to ask so many questions, but it's hard to tell - the message from thelogs probably is just a warning and not a problem
08:33 cait ok
08:33 tony123 no worries :)
08:33 cait your system is set up to use marc21? :)
08:33 tony123 Here is the results log:
08:33 tony123 MARC staging results :      2 records in file     0 records not staged because of MARC error     2 records staged     Did not check for matches with existing records in catalog     0 item records found and staged     Manage staged records     Back
08:34 cait that looks not bad
08:34 cait but you say the title does not show up in the table below?
08:34 cait on manage staged?
08:34 tony123 the values in Staged MARC record management are all null
08:34 cait hm
08:34 cait what do you mean by values?
08:34 cait does the batch not show up at all?
08:35 tony123 the values in the the Citation field are all null. Status: Stages. Match details and Record and blank
08:35 tony123 the text is "null" with a hyperlink
08:36 tony123 When clicked, the javascript error is: TypeError: $(...).html(...).dialog is not a function  title: _("MARC Preview")
08:37 BobB tony123, you could go back to MarcEdit and run the marc validator - that will show if your records are valid;
08:37 tony123 sure, thanks.
08:38 cait packages?
08:38 wahanui somebody said packages was at
08:38 BobB do that on the .mrk file, then recompile it to .mrc
08:38 cait tony123: just for a test - can you catalog a reacord manually?
08:38 BobB are you sure you did that before?
08:38 cait tony123: i had this happen when someone deleted the default framework once
08:38 BobB Anyway, if it compiles ok, then it should mean your marc file is ok and your problem is a Koha one
08:38 cait so there were no definitions for the fields and subfields in Koha - it's in the mandatory part of the web installer, but it's possible to uncheck it
08:39 cait and also what BobB says :)
08:39 BobB :)
08:39 tony123 MarcEdit's MARCValidator results: No errors were reported using the specified rules file.
08:40 tony123 Koha is installed on Ubuntu 12.04
08:42 BobB by what method?  how did you install Koha?
08:42 tony123 apt-get via the instructions on the website
08:42 tony123 If you think using a different distro will fix it, or reinstalling, I'm happy to do that
08:42 BobB hmm ...
08:43 cait tony123: when you go into cataloguing
08:43 cait can you add a record there?
08:43 tony123 hang on, one sec. Let me check
08:43 cait and when you open your file in a editor... it should be basically unreadable, then it's right :)
08:52 BobB diinner time, I'm off
08:56 tony123 Thanks BobB for your help! :)
08:57 tony123 I did create a record. I realized that I didn't create an Item type... I'll retry the import now.
08:58 tony123 cait:: yes, the mrc file is largely unreadable.
09:00 tony123 Same result: Citation field reads "null" Status reads "Staged". Match details and Records and both blank.
09:00 tony123 Do you recommend doing a clean install?
09:00 tony123 If you recommend a different distro, I can do that too
09:05 cait didyou try catalouging manually?
09:05 cait if you haven't made any configuration yet
09:06 tony123 I did a manual cataluging. It went in fine.
09:06 cait i am not sure reinstalling would make a difference
09:06 cait what's your marcflavour system preference set to?
09:08 tony123 Good question... where do I find it? I think I just selected the default flavour
09:08 cait administration > system preferences
09:08 cait and search for marcfl
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09:11 tony123 thanks. UNIMARC
09:14 cait oh
09:14 cait where are you located?
09:15 tony123 Central Asia
09:15 cait hm
09:15 cait my guess is that your database is unimarc but your data is marc21
09:15 tony123 ahhh
09:15 cait for example, the title in unimarc is 200 and the title in marc21 is in 245
09:15 cait so there are quite some important differences
09:16 cait i am not sure which is the most common format in central asia
09:16 tony123 We have Cyrillic titles, so we need to run unicode
09:16 tony123 Ok, this gives me something to go on
09:16 cait it's a misunderstanding that happens often
09:16 cait unimarc has nothing to do with unicode
09:16 tony123 oh, ok. wrong assumption. :)
09:16 cait marc21 can be unicode too :) we are using it with hebrew for example
09:17 cait ok, now we got the problem
09:17 cait just switching the pref won't fix it all
09:17 cait it mght be best to redo the installatoin - did you install from packages?
09:17 tony123 I did
09:18 cait that's cool then
09:18 tony123 No problem. At least I have something to go on now :D
09:18 cait in the conf file for creating the instance
09:18 cait check what marcflavour is given there
09:18 cait it should be marc21
09:18 tony123 ok
09:18 cait then drop your instance or create a new one, make sure in the web installer, that you select marc21 as well
09:18 cait and then try reimporting
09:19 tony123 Great, thanks! I'll make the changes and reinstall.
09:20 cait hope it all works out on second try :)
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09:20 cait making sure the instance is marc21 is important so your data can be searched correctly /indexing configuration
09:21 cait it's a lot easier that way then trying to fix everything manually
09:21 cait hi Viktor :)
09:21 Viktor Hi cait :)
10:06 * paxed boggles at
10:06 paxed $titles .= join("\t",@item_info) . "\n";
10:06 paxed 'items.content' => $titles,
10:07 paxed so, <<items.content>> in the notice will contain tab-separated lines of crap that's mostly useless to the patron?
10:08 cait it contains the fields you define
10:08 cait to generate an item list
10:08 cait but yeah, it's tab separated, only overdues can currently do the nicer <item></item> formatting i think (haven't tested lately)
10:09 cait there is a command line option for the fields it will output for items.content
10:10 paxed also, not very html-firendly, that.
10:11 cait paxed: i might remember incorrectly, but i thought there was some code to bulid a table from it
10:11 cait for the html, but that might be another notice... hm
10:16 sophie_m paxed: cait it used to be an array formated, I don't know when it disappeared
10:17 paxed *grmbl*
10:41 paxed bug 11607
10:41 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11607 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , items.content does not contain any formatting when HTML message is selected.
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13:00 druthb o/
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13:05 oleonard Hi druthb, and a belated happy birthday to you
13:05 oleonard I hope it was a nice one
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13:08 druthb It was lovely!  Had a great weekend—busy busy, but good.
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13:48 ashimema hmmm. no cait today?
13:54 oleonard So the deletedborrowers table doesn't show a timestamp for when they were deleted, or am I missing it?
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14:16 ashimema There was a bit of a debate around that oleonard..
14:16 ashimema I'll did out the bug number for when it was all worked out.
14:16 ashimema the data is there.. somewhere.
14:20 oleonard Oh, in action_logs it seems ashimema?
14:20 ashimema There's one..[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8926
14:20 huginn Bug 8926: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , deletedborrowers should have a timestamp
14:20 ashimema but thats not the one I was thinking of..
14:20 ashimema maybe it's deleted bibs I was tihnking of..
14:20 ashimema there was a bug about updating the timestamp in a dleeted table.. which I QA'd
14:21 ashimema must be getting my wires crossed
14:23 ashimema I can't find the bug I was thinking of.. so must have wires crossed somewhere.. sorry.
14:28 oleonard Oh nice. You can't use a saved SQL report to query action_logs for 'DELETE' transactions because the query has the word DELETE in it :P
14:29 paxed use concat?
14:29 paxed or some other way to split the searchable text
14:38 ashimema oh dear.. how silly
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15:31 * cait waves
15:56 jcamins @later tell gmcharlt It occurs to me that it might be a good idea to have something in the code of conduct about cultural sensitivity, given the different traditions and cultures of members of the community.
15:56 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
15:56 gmcharlt jcamins: indeed
15:57 jcamins I guess it's later than I realized.
15:57 barton oleonard: are you looking to run the report as a cron job or from the reports interface?
15:59 barton (... reports interface => koha's reports page)
15:59 oleonard From the reports interface. I ended up getting good results by using SUBSTRING
15:59 barton hmm. tricky.
16:01 barton Do you mind posting that? I'd like to see what you did.
16:04 pastebot "oleonard" at pasted "Querying deletedborrowers based on DELETE action in action_logs" (1 line) at
16:04 oleonard ...of course one would want to limit that query in other ways on a production system
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16:25 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
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16:55 gaetan_B bye !
17:04 reiveune bye
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18:09 jcamins nengard: are you still on the constant lookout for video suggestions? You may already have this one, but if not a video showing how to mark items lost on recent versions of Koha might be an idea.
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18:58 cait gmcharlt++
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19:23 cait @later tell tcohen ping me when you got some time to talk?
19:23 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
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20:10 nengard jcamins - haven't had time to do videos in forever
20:10 nengard what what has changed about marking items lost?
20:10 jcamins nengard: you used to do it in the additem screen but now you do it on the moredetails screen.
20:11 nengard that happened a LONG time ago so I think I have that covered - not in a video but in a tutorial i wrote
20:14 rangi morning
20:14 jcamins nengard: yeah, I only thought of it because someone who learned from 3.2 tutorial videos and didn't need to mark anything lost since then (!) mentioned it.
20:14 nengard hehe
20:14 nengard got it
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20:51 jce I'm working on a Koha 3.08 server that's having problems with OPAC.  When I do a search under "Library Catalog" I can get plausible results.  But if I select 'Author', 'Title', 'Subject', 'ISBN' or any of the other options from the pull-down list, I get "No results found!"  I've tried rebuilding Zebra many times.  Are the "Library Catalog" results not related to zebra?
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20:53 cait jce: hmmm are you using opacsuppression?
20:53 cait are you using searchmylibraryfirst or a similar setting?
20:54 jce cait:  I'm not aware of having any of those options set.  Where are they found?
20:55 jce I have the same problem on the original server that I'm trying to fix, and on a server running in a VM that I loaded an SQL backup into.
20:55 cait yeah, looks like something in your configuration
20:55 cait check administration > system preferences > opac suppression first
20:55 cait well opacsuppresson
20:55 cait opacsuppression
20:55 wahanui well, opacsuppression is different.
20:57 jce I know there are some bad biblio records that I need to fix, but I don't think this problem is related.
20:57 cait did you check the setting?
20:58 cait turn the feature off ( don't hide records) if it's on
20:58 jce Just getting the VM fired up again.
21:09 jce OpacSuppression is set to "Don't hide".  It also says"  "Note that you must have the Suppress index set up in Zebra and at least one suppressed item, or your searches will be broken."  Does that pertain only if you have it set to 'hide'?
21:13 jce SearchMyLibraryFirst is set to "Don't limit".
21:15 jce Could it be a problem of items (holdings?) vs. biblio records?  Is that the difference between the "Library catalog" search and the others?
21:18 cait hm
21:18 cait what does your search url for a non keyword search look like?
21:19 jce You mean a search under "Library catalog" in the pull-down?
21:20 jce localhost/cgi-bin/koha/
21:21 cait so that works
21:21 cait how does the other url look like? for a title search or similar?
21:23 jce Hmm.  It does look different:  bcmckoha/cgi-bin/koha/opac-s​  [bcmckoha would probably be an instance name, and may not be in /etc/hosts]
21:27 cait hm that doesn't look quite right
21:27 cait really one is localhost and the other bcmckoha?
21:28 jce Actually, as I look at it again, I don't think that's the problem.  On the 'real' server, the URL reads:  localhost/cgi-bin/koha/opac-s​
21:30 jce Sorry, it reads differently between the 'real' server and the VM, but is consistent on each.
21:30 mtj morning all...
21:31 mtj jce: if i were you, i would load your 3.0.8 db into a new 3.14.x koha
21:32 mtj ...and see if your search problems are fixed
21:33 cait jce: running out of ideas sorry
21:33 jce Well, I've tried that and not had good results.  I'm trying to fix 3.08 first, before upgrading.
21:33 cait it's certainly weird...
21:33 cait you didn't change any settings? when did it stop working?
21:33 jce cait:  I
21:33 cait you could check the action logs table for configration changes done in that time span
21:33 mtj yeah, it is a bit weird :/
21:34 mtj jce, perhaps your mappings or frameworks are a bit wonky?
21:34 jce 'm not exactly sure.  I'm an outside consultant who comes in to maintain a small church library's Koha server when problems arise.
21:34 jce mjt:  that's entirely possible.
21:35 cait jce: action_logs should hav elogged changes to system preferneces
21:35 cait so if the problem is in the configuration... might be a chance to find it there
21:35 cait if it happened out of nowhere without updating
21:36 jce cait:  I doubt there was a change in the config, but I guess it could be.
21:36 mtj Tools -> Koha to MARC mapping
21:37 mtj jce: if you really get stuck - you usually need to set up a fresh/clean koha, and start comparing settings
21:38 jce The system was originally set up in about 2007 or 2008 and has had several OS and Koha version upgrades.  I think that one problem came in when updating to 3.08.  Some of the MARC records have the infamous frey50 infection.  But I don't think that pertains to this problem.
21:39 cait it's like i have seen something like this somewhere, but can't figure out where and what it was :(
21:39 mtompset Is it 3.0.8 or 3.8?
21:39 jce The VM is a fresh install that has the most recent SQL backup loaded.
21:39 mtompset There is that extra upgrade step if it is prior to 3.4 :)
21:41 mtj jce, if its a really old koha, the zebra config files might be way out of date too
21:41 jce It's 3.8.  The package download file is 'koha-common_3.08.16.1-1_all.deb'.
21:42 mtj ah ok... not too many zebra changes since 3.8 - thats good
21:43 jce mtj:  I did a "Complete Removal" of Koha in Synaptic, which I understand removes config files as well.  Is it possible that old zebra config could have survived?
21:43 jce mtj:  but it did start out life long before 3.8.
21:43 mtj hmm, yeah, its possible
21:44 mtj pro-tip: i use git to track /etc, before i do any upgrade
21:44 mtj ...then you can always do a nice before/after diff, to see what really changed
21:45 jce Part of this long, sad saga is that I did upgrade from 3.8 to 3.14, but it didn't go well, so I put it back to 3.8 to fix it.  I'm now going to upgrade a VM first, then migrate that data to the production server.
21:46 jce Guess that's another reason to learn how to use git.  :)
21:46 mtj yeah, i use git for general sysadmin tasks too
21:47 jce On the other hand, stale config files aren't likely to be plaguing the VM.
21:48 mtj yeah, correct
21:48 jce That's a fresh install of 3.8.
21:48 jce So it must be something in the SQL.
21:49 cait jce: it would be my guess too... but really hard to tell :(
21:49 cait youcould check the error logs
21:49 cait or run the zebrasrv in the foreground (can you say that in english?) and look at the queries
21:49 cait see if that gives you some kind of hint
21:50 mtj you really need to start testing from scratch -  against a clean koha, with some clean test records
21:51 mtj prove that an ISBN search works on your clean koha, and work backwards
21:52 mtj here is a dir of handy test records from LOC ->
21:53 jce mtj:  by clean koha, you mean a fresh instance?
21:54 cait a fresh instance... and some records, see if that can be searched
21:54 cait both instances use the same koha code.. might give a clue?
21:54 cait but probably I'd take a look at the logs first
21:55 mtj jce:  yeah, a fresh instance
21:56 mtj load these bibs into your fresh instance ->
21:57 jce Ok, on the VM, the last error in /var/log/koha/BCMCKoha/opac-error.log is:  Use of uninitialized value $sort_by[0] in join or string at /usr/share/koha/opac/cgi-bin/opac/ line 698.
21:57 mtj ...then index, and confirm that the seaching behaves 'sanely'
21:58 mtj ...then load those bibs into your problem koha, and confirm that you get different search results
21:58 cait ah
21:58 jce mtj:  I'll have to add items against these bibs, correct?
21:58 cait hm what is the default sort option set to in this instance? there are prefs for that
21:58 cait look for search
21:59 mtj jce:  no need for items
21:59 pianohacker joined #koha
21:59 pianohacker hallo
22:02 pianohacker http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]sting-my-own-code
22:03 cait aaw
22:03 cait that kid is cool
22:03 rangi http://kohadevreactions.tumblr[…]-wrote-months-ago
22:04 pianohacker rangi: I was looking at the last attempt I did at ajaxcirc back in 2009 the other day like that...
22:04 rangi :)
22:05 pianohacker "What a dumbass idea. Who thought that was reasonable? ... Oh..."
22:05 cait itshows your development :)
22:07 jce Ok, I searched 'search' in preferences and found that NoZebra was set to "Don't use".  Hmm.  I set it to 'Use' and saved Searching preferences.  Didn't seem to help immediately.  Do I need to restart apache to make Koha see that change?
22:08 pianohacker jce: which version of koha are you using?
22:09 cait jce: undo that
22:09 jce 3.8
22:09 mtj jce:  that is very very suspicious
22:09 cait jce: Don't use NoZebra is correct
22:09 cait it#s double negated... it means use zebra then
22:09 cait in other words: you don't want to use NoZebra :)
22:09 pianohacker jce: NoZebra should be set to don't use, it's old code that was removed not long after the version you were using
22:10 mtj jce:  your search should not work at all, without zebra
22:11 jce It's worded very poorly.  The pull-down says [Use|Don't use] the Zebra search engine.  But I'll set it back the way I found it.  It didn't appear to make any difference.
22:11 mtj is your koha config pointing to another db?
22:12 cait jce: hm the wording is irritating me too indeed
22:12 pianohacker jce: yeah, sorry about that. That and several other things were why it's since been eviscerated
22:12 jce mtj:  No.  And again, I do get results when I don't specify Title, Author, etc.
22:13 pianohacker jce: Do you have zebra set up for unimarc and are using MARC21, or vice versa?
22:14 jce pianohacker:  No, it's MARC21 all the way.
22:14 pianohacker hmm, okay. what flags are you passing to
22:16 jce cait:  I see defaultSortField and defaultSortOrder and OPAC versions thereof.  Both are set to relevance and ascending.
22:16 pianohacker and wait a second. From what I'm reading in the preferences file, shouldn't NoZebra be set to "use"? The .pref file accounts for the negation
22:16 pianohacker at least as of 8626a5bebb3f900d852a3d98c5f45d95cea5272d
22:17 cait pianohacker: i was wondering that
22:17 jce pianohacker:  -f -v {instance}
22:17 cait maybe you are right
22:17 cait i am glad we finally removed that
22:17 cait end of confusion
22:17 pianohacker amen!
22:18 pianohacker there are several .pref descriptions that I wrote that only partially removed confusion... things like gist, for instance
22:18 jce So to clarify, the NoZebra preference is already do-nothing cruft by 3.8, or do I need to make sure it is set right?
22:19 pianohacker that's a good question.
22:19 jce It didn't seem to have an effect.
22:19 mtj looks like its still live on 3.8.16
22:20 mtj the search code in refers to it
22:20 pianohacker yup
22:21 pianohacker ace
22:21 mtj jebus
22:21 pianohacker jce: the only thing I can think of is to also pass -x to rebuild-zebra
22:21 mtj according to searching.pref, nozebra  = yes *enables* zebra?!
22:22 jce Would I need to rebuild zebra's index to get the NoZebra preference to take effect?
22:22 mtj oops, i take that back ^^ :)
22:22 pianohacker the wording is confusing, I hated describing the No* style prefs...
22:22 jce mtj:  But in the web interface, the wording is "Use" or "Don't use" zebra search engine.
22:23 mtj yes = 'dont use'
22:23 pianohacker jce: It should be set to "Use", from what we can tell
22:23 jce Mine was set to "Don't use."  But setting it to "Use" didn't immediately change anything.
22:23 jce Ok, I'll set it back, restart apache, reindex (with -x) and see what that does.
22:24 pianohacker mtj: since "Use" should set NoZebra to no or 0
22:24 pianohacker jce: also restart the zebra server, just to be safe
22:29 mtj yeah, nozebra needs to be set to 'use' - thanks pianohacker, cait :)
22:29 jce Ok, after I set it to "Use" I got no results in "Library catalog".  When I put it back to "Don't use" "Library catalog" searches work.
22:30 cait hmmmm - but only library catalog searched, not the other options
22:30 jce This suggests to me that my zebra is broken and "Library catalog" searches aren't using zebra.  Is this possible?
22:30 jce cait:  right.
22:30 cait they normally use zebra
22:30 cait but that is really what the pref des
22:30 cait does
22:31 cait it might be zebra is generally broken for some reason... and that only nozebra partially works
22:31 mtj your koha has not been using zebra, perhap jce?
22:31 eythian hi
22:31 jce mtj:  It was at one time.  It may be broken now.
22:31 cait does the rebuld give positive feedback? you could try adding the -x and a second -v
22:33 mtj jce: if you stop zebra, and get search results... you have some problem :)
22:34 pianohacker yeah, that's a good idea. Stop zebrasrv/koha-zebra if it's running, then try again
22:34 mtj nozebra = 'dont use'  should *not* give you any results, on 3.8.16
22:34 jce cait:  The syntax on koha-rebuild-zebra:  -x -x -v -v, or -xx -vv?
22:34 cait one x to v
22:34 cait 2 v
22:34 cait i think
22:34 cait -x -v -v for more output
22:35 cait also the -f i think
22:37 jce It exports 3295 biblios, which is plausible.  It gives a warning:  Record didn't contain match fields in (bib1,Local-number)
22:37 cait ah
22:37 cait that's not good
22:37 jce Is that a problem with mapping or frameworks?
22:39 mtj hmm, mapping (i think?)
22:40 jce mtj:  pianohacker:  I did 'koha-stop-zebra' and I can still search by "Library catalog" and get results.  Keyword searches still don't work.  Clearly Zebra is not working.
22:40 cait can you still search when you flip the nozebra?
22:40 mtj jce:  double check
22:40 mtj $ ps -ef | grep zebra
22:41 tcohen joined #koha
22:42 mtj jce: my hunch is you are not actually using zebra
22:43 jce mtj:  assuming koha-stop-zebra actually shut Zebra down, that's what's happening.  So how do I get Zebra running again?
22:44 cait i thnk it's a data problem
22:44 cait something about the biblionumber?
22:45 mtj yeah, a 999/mapping problem
22:45 jce cait:  It must be a data problem that has moved from the original server to the VM in the SQL.  A mapping problem would make sense.
22:46 tcohen #koha: i'm on a small trip to Ecuador, i'll try to push stuff to master soon, but not today
22:47 eythian jce: koha-start-zebra
22:47 eythian jce: though, I recommend 'sudo service koha-common start/stop/restart' instead
22:48 jce I ran a bibliographic framework test a couple days ago and it said I had tabs 6 and 3 in use in tag 696, but when I went to try and fix it, I couldn't figure out how to get rid of one.
22:49 jce eythian:  the real problem is not how to start the server, but how to get it working correctly.
22:49 cait tcohen: have fun :)
22:49 cait jce: the problem might be that your records are missing the 999 tag
22:49 cait with the bilbionumber
22:50 tcohen eythian: don't know what was about
22:50 mtj tcohen:  Ecuador sounds nice :0)
22:50 eythian tcohen: ES API
22:50 tcohen it is :-D
22:50 tcohen eythian: oh
22:50 eythian I didn't understand your question
22:50 tcohen we all know Zebra's code needs to be refactored
22:51 eythian s/refactored/taken out and shot/ but yes.
22:51 tcohen and also, that in the mid term, Zebra might even dissapear
22:51 tcohen I was thinking, that if there was an API for implementing the ES code
22:51 tcohen (like there was for SolR)
22:51 tcohen some people might like to work on making Zebra code a bit better
22:52 tcohen following that hypothetical API
22:52 eythian tcohen: there is, sorta.
22:52 pianohacker It's going through K::SearchEngine, no?
22:52 tcohen pianohacker: that's SolR
22:52 eythian I'm writing a compatibility layer so it can get requests from the existing stuff
22:52 eythian it is also mostly using K::SE
22:52 wahanui okay, eythian.
22:53 tcohen ok, so sticking to K::SE is a good way to do it
22:53 tcohen thanks eythian
22:53 eythian It also has its own API, though it's a bit under-defined at the moment as I'm sorting out use cases.
22:53 eythian Basically you feed it a lucene search string.
22:53 tcohen instead of PQF
22:54 eythian Yeah.
22:54 tcohen so the search is not built byQueryParser
22:54 eythian It is
22:54 cait oh
22:54 eythian If you're using the zebra-like code, it builds a lucene-type search string, and then turns that into an ES query.
22:54 cait interesting
22:54 wahanui somebody said interesting was sometimes good and sometimes bad
22:55 eythian this also means that you can type lucene stuff straight into the keyword box and it should work.
22:55 eythian e.g. title:foo AND subject:bar
22:55 pianohacker wait, does that mean the existing code allows raw PQF for zebra?
22:56 eythian probably
22:56 eythian possible
22:56 wahanui i heard possible was everything, but I think it's probably easy to miss something here
22:56 eythian y
22:57 jce cait:  I'm looking through a MARC XML file I exported and it appears that you're right.  No 999 tags.  Could it be that we were never using Zebra even though we thought we were?  Seems more likely than that all the 999 tags got stripped out.  Is it possible that there was another tag that was being used instead.  I have vague thoughts about 7xx-something.
22:58 tcohen eythian: will there be something like K::SE::ES ?
22:58 jce I see 700 tags that contain what look like author and title information.
22:58 eythian tcohen: yep
22:58 tcohen awesome
22:59 cait jce: you ar elooking basically for 2 identical numbers
22:59 eythian that aspect of it needs a bit of work right now, but it's really just a bit of rearranging of files and such.
23:00 mtj jce, you are prolly missing 999 framework mappings - thats why your bibs have no 999 fields
23:00 mtj Home › Administration › Koha to MARC mapping
23:00 tcohen eythian: thanks for the update
23:01 mtj ..its a common-ish bug for upgraded old kohas
23:01 cait tcohen: when will you be back? :)
23:01 eythian some time soon I hope to squash patches appropriately and publish something for testing.
23:01 eythian well, super-alpha tesing
23:01 tcohen saturday actually
23:02 tcohen eythian: looking forward for it, thanks
23:03 mtj jce: based on your info - you probably have not been using zebra for a while
23:03 * tcohen notices that hotel hasn't filtered port 22 :-D
23:03 jce mtj:  That could be.
23:04 mtj ..if ever?
23:05 jce So, I'm looking in Koha to MARC mapping, and I don't find any reference to 999.  I'll need to add it then?  Should this be under biblio, biblioitems, or items?
23:05 cait hmm
23:05 eythian that sounds like it would be very problematic.
23:06 cait i'd recommend looking at a standard default framework
23:06 eythian I'd be inclined to reload them from default
23:06 cait probably even load a standard framework
23:06 cait yeah
23:06 cait i agree
23:07 mtj me... i would load your bib, bibitems and items tables into a fresh koha, and test from there
23:07 cait the problem is, even after reloading the frameworks
23:07 rangi mtj: that wont work if those records have no 999 on them
23:07 mtj or the other way around, too :)
23:07 cait you'd need to add bilbionumbers i guess
23:07 rangi yep
23:08 rangi the best thng to do
23:08 * eythian wonders if there's a fixbiblionumbers type script around
23:08 rangi before worrying about frameworks
23:08 mtj aah, yeah - those arent automagically created :/
23:08 rangi is do a select marcxml from biblioitems limit 2;
23:08 mtj me forgot that
23:08 rangi and have a look
23:11 papa joined #koha
23:11 jce rangi:  I'll need a little more context for your suggestion.  I've exported all the records in marcxml.  Are you just saying to check if I have 999 in the records.  I can already confirm I don't.
23:16 dcook pianohacker: If you prefix your query with "pqf=" you can send straight PQF to Zebra
23:16 dcook I don't think it would work without that prefix though as it would just interpret it as a kw search, me thinks
23:20 * pianohacker has a geeky trick
23:20 pianohacker dcook++
23:20 dcook hehe
23:27 jce Ok all, here's another bit of information.  When I last tried to re-index Zebra, it reported the following:  BIBLIONUMBER in: 090$c   BIBLIOITEMNUMBER in: 090$d.  I take it that these should be in 999$c and 999$d?
23:28 rangi isnt 090 unimarc
23:28 rangi ?
23:28 rangi hmm and old old koha too i think
23:29 jce says 090 is "Local Call Number [OBSOLETE, 1982]
23:30 jce So maybe I simply need to run a script to upgrade the schema?  [hoping for something easy like that]
23:30 cait you should change the records
23:30 cait if you can do that, i think it might work
23:31 cait loc is not relevant here - this is koha specific
23:31 dcook rangi: It looks like 090$9 is unimarc
23:31 dcook So I'm guessing old Koha?
23:32 jce Would it work to do a global text replace in a marcxml dump, changing the 090 tag to 999?
23:32 rangi id try it on 2 or 3 records
23:32 rangi reindex
23:32 jce dcook:  I think this is still leftover mess from years ago.
23:32 rangi and see if it works, then do all of them (after a backup of course)
23:32 dcook jce: I think you'll also need to change the place that is telling Zebra to look in 090$c and 090$d, I suspect
23:33 rangi dcook: zebra is looking in 999
23:33 jce rangi:  sounds like a good idea.  I have a working backup, the original server, and 2 virtual machines.
23:33 dcook "GetMarcFromKohaField"
23:33 rangi the problem is the are in 090
23:33 dcook rangi: BIBLIONUMBER in: 090$c   BIBLIOITEMNUMBER in: 090$d is based on GetMarcFromKohaField
23:33 rangi you will need to fix up your frameworks too jce
23:33 rangi yes
23:33 rangi thats the problem
23:34 rangi the data and the frameworks say 090
23:34 rangi zebra looks for 999
23:34 rangi need to fix the data and fraemworks to say 999
23:34 dcook That's what I meant. Bad communication on my part :p
23:34 dcook Also want to update Marc => Koha mappings, as those get used quite a bit in Koha
23:34 rangi (without fixing the frameworks, the problem will recreate itself over time)
23:35 dcook Err "Koha to MARC Mapping"
23:36 jce dcook:  is GetMarcFromKohaField in system preferences?  I'm not finding it there.
23:37 cait it's in administration
23:37 cait koha 2 marc mapping
23:37 dcook /cgi-bin/koha/admin/
23:37 wahanui /cgi-bin/koha/admin/ is the place to check 1st
23:38 dcook Whoa. Wahanui and I are in sync.
23:38 cait you'd want to make sure that the mappings there are correct - they get applied to all frameworks
23:38 dcook Not to be confused with nsync...
23:38 dcook Yep. If those have 090 for the biblionumber/biblioitemnumber, new records and mods will get the number changed back to 090.
23:39 pianohacker cait: that's a question I recently ran into, as some places use the marc mapping of the relevant framework and others just use the default
23:39 pianohacker is there a best practice?
23:40 pianohacker (or at least an accepted one)
23:40 pianohacker I've been looking at circulation code, so my head hasn't exactly been in the clean, recently architected part of Koha lately :P
23:41 cait i think it doesn't seem to make sense fo rme for different frameworks having different mapping right now
23:41 cait there might be a use case i can't think of...
23:41 cait you never know with libraries
23:41 pianohacker always is in the library world, yeah...
23:42 * dcook supposes it might depend on the case as well
23:42 * dcook turns back to his Friday work before he starts thinking about other things..
23:42 dcook But yay for pianohacker looking at circulation! :D
23:42 pianohacker well, from a very unscientific ag -i marctokoha | grep -v framework | wc -l
23:43 pianohacker about 80% of the instances use it
23:43 eythian what is 'ag'?
23:43 * dcook was also wondering this
23:44 pianohacker sorry, 80% of instances in Koha don't pass frameworkcode
23:44 jce dcook:  I don't find any reference to GetMarcFromKohaField in /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi​-bin/admin/  Is it a variable name?  A function?  A Perl module?
23:44 dcook jce: a function. It's referred to in
23:44 pianohacker dcook, eythian: It's a superfast recursive grep that automatically ignores certain directories
23:44 dcook What you want to do is go to the page
23:44 eythian pianohacker: you mean ack
23:45 eythian ?
23:45 pianohacker eythian: nope, even faster than ack, though not quite as full featured
23:45 cait jce: i think before thinking furhter, just try changing the data for 2 records or so and see if you can search them - might save you more headache, doing it step by step
23:45 jce dcook:  Ah, I was looking in the code.
23:45 eythian pianohacker: ah, interesting
23:46 pianohacker eythian: see[…]g-my-own-scandir/ and[…]-better-than-ack/
23:46 pianohacker dude is a bit performance crazy
23:46 cait night
23:46 cait :)
23:46 cait left #koha
23:46 pianohacker night cait
23:46 rangi jce: id just try editing a couple of records, reindexing and see if it fixes the search
23:46 rangi jce: everything else is moot if it doesnt
23:47 dcook jce: Both cait and rangi have been doing this  much longer than me, so I'd probably listen to them :p
23:48 rangi once we are sure that shifting the 090 to 999 fixes it, then we can worry about the mapping/frameworks :)
23:51 mtj ahh, this script might do the 090->999 fixup jce
23:51 mtj[…]
23:51 jce Ok, so I should edit a couple records by changing their 090 tags  to 999, or copying them to 999 tags in marcxml, import those records, re-index Zebra, and see if I can search those records on Title, Author, etc.  If that works, I should fix the framework and Koha to MARC mapping, mass-edit the rest of the marcxml records, import them, re-index, and there's a 100% guarantee that everything will be happy in the world.  :)
23:51 jce mtj:  Ooh, I may check into that.
23:51 eythian pianohacker: it's around half the speed of ack for me.
23:51 pianohacker never a 100% guarantee
23:51 eythian though perhaps there are differences in options
23:52 pianohacker eythian: that's interesting. running a simple ag/ack MarcToKoha in my kohaclone is 0.47 vs 22.27 seconds
23:52 jce pianohacker:  :O  shock and disbelief!
23:52 eythian pianohacker: make sure you have a warm cache though
23:52 pianohacker (on my machine)
23:53 eythian i.e. run each one twice ant least
23:53 pianohacker jce: heh. Just making sure :)
23:54 pianohacker eythian: Just did, same result. What test are you running/are you on an SSD?
23:54 jce May have to take a supper break before diving into this.  Thanks all for your help.
23:54 eythian > time ack GetMarcFromKohaField
23:54 eythian not on SSD
23:54 mtj jce: you are making good progress :)
23:55 eythian pianohacker: OK, when I make a .agignore from my .ackrc, it's a huge lot faster.
23:55 jce mtj:  I do think this sounds like a plausible explanation for what is going on.
23:56 eythian I had ack tuned to drop a large amount of unnecessary Koha directories
23:56 mtj jce, yeah - ive travelled your path a few times, myself :)
23:57 rangi pianohacker: you did the overdrive work eh?
23:57 mtj a well worn road
23:58 pianohacker eythian: Ah, yeah, even just making ack ignore .po files like I did for ag reduced the difference a lot
23:58 pianohacker rangi: Yup. That reminds me, though
23:58 rangi pianohacker:[…]?q=harry%20potter
23:59 pianohacker gmcharlt: do you have a second to discuss a dependency problem that affects 3.16?
23:59 pianohacker rangi: cool, didn't know NZ libraries used overdrive

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