IRC log for #koha, 2013-07-10

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 dcook Just one more commit and I'll be up to #58 in master...
00:20 pianohacker dcook: is there a ranking?
00:21 dcook pianohacker:[…]ster/authors.html
00:21 dcook I like numbers?
00:21 dcook I think you're 45
00:21 pianohacker yup :) which surprises me, actually
00:22 pianohacker and there's a huge long-tail effect
00:22 dcook Very true. I appreciate the long-tail. Makes me feel better about my contributions, even though I have heaps left to do...
00:25 pianohacker heh, yup. There's always stuff
00:27 pianohacker dcook++
00:27 pianohacker regardless of size, all contributions are good
01:04 dcook Hmm...just thinking about frameworks...
01:05 dcook If the default framework has every possible field/subfield, except extremely local tags, then all data will be imported properly
01:05 dcook However, if they edit using the default framework, they can still lose data, if there are fields that are marked as !Editor
01:06 dcook Collapsed is fine, since they just won't see the data, but if it is hidden from the editor, that data will be tossed when they hit save, since the record is completely rebuilt from the HTML form...
01:07 jcamins dcook: that's why I tell my libraries that they can add fields to the default framework but not remove them.
01:08 dcook jcamins: Makes sense.
01:08 dcook However, it looks like the default framework has at least some fields where all the subfields are hidden from the editor
01:08 dcook Like the 773
01:09 jcamins Really? Weird.
01:09 dcook My thoughts exacctly
01:09 dcook exactly even
01:09 * jcamins moves his default framework around.
01:11 dcook The default should probably be a visibility of "3" rather than "-6"...
01:11 dcook That way, it's hidden from the OPAC and Intranet, but is present (collapsed) in the editor...
01:11 jcamins I question the value of hiding anything from the OPAC and intranet.
01:12 jcamins I mean, it's not like it's not shown.
01:12 dcook True. It just governs the MARC views when using TT
01:12 dcook Not really sure how important that is
01:12 dcook With the exception of non-public notes, perhaps
01:13 jcamins Since the non-public notes still show up, I'm going to go with "not important at all." ;)
01:13 dcook O_o
01:14 dcook That's interesting
01:14 dcook I was hoping this latest round of framework updates would fix things up for good
01:14 jcamins Nope.
01:14 dcook Having all the tags there is handy though
01:14 jcamins It has nothing to do with the frameworks.
01:15 jcamins The frameworks are just a list of fields.
01:15 dcook Well...when I say "for good", I meant more in terms of what I was saying than what you were saying :p
01:15 druthb o/
01:15 dcook hey druthb :)
01:15 druthb Hi, dcook!
01:15 dcook jcamins: They *should* just be lists of fields, but they're certainly more than that
01:16 jcamins I meant in terms of functionality.
01:16 dcook Although they might not govern any result/detail views (especially with XSLT), they still govern that editor view which is pretty important
01:16 dcook especially in terms of functionality.
01:16 jcamins The only thing impacted by any setting is the editor.
01:17 dcook Mmmm.
01:17 dcook Good point.
01:17 dcook But then it is useful to sometimes hide fields from the editor
01:17 jcamins Well, I suppose the "expanded MARC view" is impacted, but... show of hands... how many people use it other than Koha people? None? Right.
01:17 dcook Or else we would only need one framework
01:17 dcook Expanded MARC view?
01:17 jcamins Yeah.
01:18 jcamins iiI guess you don't use it either.
01:18 jcamins s/^ii//
01:18 dcook Possibly not?
01:18 druthb @later tell bag d00d do you make a habit of keeping old ladies up past their bedtime?  I may be here, give it a shot, or email me.
01:18 huginn` druthb: The operation succeeded.
01:19 jcamins I think that proves my point admirably.
01:19 dcook Might just be a difference of terminology
01:19 mtj hi all, slightly off-topic but… has everyone discovered angular yet ->
01:19 jcamins mtj: actually, I'm just playing with Angular now.
01:19 jcamins *Right* now.
01:19 wizzyrea they use that here some
01:20 jcamins It seems very, very cool.
01:20 mtj ...the 'hello world' demo is flippn sweet  ->[…]ded&v=uFTFsKmkQnQ
01:20 jcamins dcook: actually, it's the "labeled MARC view," sorry.
01:21 mtj ^^ it makes jq look cumbersome
01:21 dcook jcamins: Mmm, I was wondering if that's what you meant. Yeah, I've never seen the point of that at all.
01:21 jcamins mtj: jQuery *is* cumbersome.
01:22 jcamins Up until you compare it to plain old Javascript.
01:22 jcamins At which point you realize that you're okay with jQuery levels of encumberment.
01:22 jcamins *encumbrance
01:22 dcook Plain old Javascript...O_O
01:22 mtj cumberment
01:23 jcamins dcook: not recommended for DOM manipulation.
01:23 dcook cumberbatch?
01:23 dcook jcamins: I would guess not. I think my latest foray into plain old Javascript recently was analyzing the DOM and even that was...less than pleasant.
01:30 mtj how do people feel about angular being used in koha?
01:33 jcamins mtj: for the OPAC, absolutely not. For the staff client, I guess I'm not sure what the benefit would be.
01:33 jcamins Actually, let me rephrase that.
01:34 jcamins In a perfect world, yes for both.
01:34 jcamins Given the amount of effort that would be necessary to do it well and with server-side fallback where server-side fallback is needed... I can't see anywhere near enough benefit to justify the amount of time it would take.
01:35 mtj hmm, why no for the opac?
01:35 jcamins Because server-side fallback is wildly complex.
01:36 wizzyrea also there will probably be some suspicion of google.
01:36 jcamins wizzyrea: that wasn't one of my objections, though.
01:36 jcamins I'm switching to Angular for Biblionarrator, but there's a lot less code.
01:36 wizzyrea and is not necessarily one of mine, but it might come up
01:36 jcamins And I have cheerfully thrown out 300% of the code that there is, so why not make it 400%?
01:39 NateC joined #koha
01:44 mtj ah ok, i wasnt thinking about the server-side part of angular
01:45 mtj …just as a friendlier replacement for general jquery code
01:46 jcamins That'd be a heck of a lot of work.
01:47 mtj heh, yeah, im not actually suggesting we should do that :)
01:52 mtj tho, i think the big point might be… angular and jquery are quite different?
01:53 mtj despite having some things in common
01:53 jcamins They have very little in common, really, other than both being Javascript.
01:54 jcamins jQuery is a library that does lots of stuff -- well, everything, when you take into account plugins -- and Angular is a framework with a templating and routing system.
01:56 mtompset joined #koha
01:57 dcook Quick question for any Koha XSLT whizzes out there...
01:57 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
01:57 dcook Does <xsl:with-param name="codes">a_t</xsl:with-param> refer to codes "a" or "t"?
01:57 dcook I've seen strings like "abcdefgz" but not "a_t"...
01:57 dcook I suppose I should look at the template..
01:58 jcamins It's because "at" is translated."
01:58 dcook is the underscore Koha specific or an XSL thing?
01:58 jcamins The _ is basically a no-op.
01:58 jcamins Neither.
01:58 wahanui neither is running out of time and beeing a nolifer because of all the zebra problems...
01:59 jcamins It just so happens that _ is not a valid subfield code so it never matches anything.
01:59 dcook Mmm
01:59 dcook Tricksy
01:59 mtompset Greetings, jcamins dcook.
01:59 druthb Trickssssy little catalogersssss..
01:59 druthb hi, mtompset! :)
02:00 mtompset Greetings, druthb. :)
02:00 dcook hey mtompset
02:00 wahanui somebody said mtompset was disliking the silent warnings flooding his error logs.
02:01 mtompset less true right now.
02:01 mtompset More happier that I've tweaked my external authentication patch to modify LESS files. :)
02:01 mtompset Put it all in koha-conf.xml :)
02:01 dcook And we use long strings because the XPATH contains does a substring search of the codes string...
02:01 mtompset Who needs sysprefs. ;)
02:02 dcook Thanks, jcamins :).
02:02 wizzyrea fewer.
02:03 dcook Happier (minus the more :P)
02:03 dcook Complimentary gifts always make me wonder as well...
02:04 dcook Although this morning I was thinking I would probably be happier if I didn't notice spelling and grammar issues in the wild.
02:04 dcook Who needs commas?
02:04 * dcook goes back to the XSLT and thanks jcamins once again
02:04 mtompset dcook: Nah... plus a much... much more happy. :P
02:05 mtompset wizzyrea: fewer?
02:06 mtompset how does xslt know that codes is only 1 character wide?
02:06 wizzyrea mass nouns vs count nouns ;)
02:06 dcook mtompset, but codes isn't 1 character wide most of the time, me thinks
02:06 wizzyrea you can count the files, so you modify fewer of them.
02:06 * wizzyrea goes away again
02:07 dcook It substring matches the @code attribute against the codes string which is multiple characters wide
02:07 dcook wizzyrea: Unless they're LESS files rather than less files.
02:07 mtompset less files [than before]. :P
02:07 wizzyrea fewer files.
02:07 dcook I think Sheldon on BBT did a pretty good explanation of fewer vs less.
02:08 wizzyrea hehe probably
02:08 dcook My wife used to ridicule me for watching that show...until she watched a few clips herself
02:08 dcook Although she doesn't think it's funny when I say things like Sheldon :p
02:08 wizzyrea no, his attitude is only funny coming from him, and when you're not the target of it.
02:09 mtompset if you can't count the number of files, it's less. :P
02:09 wizzyrea which actually, makes it kind of antisocial
02:09 wizzyrea but you can, so it's fewer.
02:09 wizzyrea ;)
02:09 mtompset at this hour, I can't count past 3. :P
02:09 wizzyrea "you" in the general sense
02:10 wizzyrea I can't speak to your current ability to ^.^
02:10 * dcook wonders what would happen if the 773 had both an A subfield and a T subfield...probably would just use the first subfield it encountered...
02:10 wizzyrea and now that I've used up an entire year's worth of grammar naziism, i'm going away again.
02:10 jcamins Nope.
02:10 jcamins Both.
02:10 dcook Mmm, right
02:11 dcook Because of the template's foreach
02:11 mtompset wizzyrea: It's okay... It isn't like I'm going to the express lane where it is 12 items or less. ;)
02:11 wizzyrea they're wrong too :P
02:11 mtompset I know.
02:15 mtompset just a second... testing something.
02:15 mtompset joined #koha
02:16 mtompset Oh... what time is 10:00 UTC?
02:16 dcook Hmm, of course...there had to be a time when there is both a A and a T...
02:17 dcook Interesting...
02:17 wahanui interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:17 mtompset 6am... that should be possible, if I go to sleep now.
02:18 dcook Gotta love the wording of MARC
02:18 dcook "Main entry heading"
02:18 dcook Pssh
02:18 dcook night mtompset?
02:19 mtompset I think so. :)
02:19 mtompset Have a good night, jcamins wizzyrea dcook and all lurkers on #koha. :)
02:22 wizzyrea later, sleep well
02:26 dcook Hmm, looks like this jcamins fellow might've written the 773 section of MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl
02:26 dcook jcamins++
02:29 jcamins IE--
02:39 trea hey #koha, has anyone seen a problem when trying to view as Card in the z39.50 search results?
02:39 trea "Could not create file parser context for file "/home/koha/kohaclone/koha-tmpl/intr​anet-tmpl/ccsr/en/xslt/compact.xsl": No such file or directory at /home/koha/kohaclone/catalogue/ line 62"
02:40 wizzyrea no but
02:40 wizzyrea guessing ccsr doesn't have that file
02:40 dcook Isn't ccsr just for the opac though?
02:41 wizzyrea yea, that looks like a bad path, actualy
02:41 wizzyrea with two l's
02:41 trea ahh, that makes sense
02:49 papa joined #koha
02:57 wizzyrea does anyone recall a bug where items that are waiting cannot be placed on reserve from the result screen in the OPAC
02:57 wizzyrea this sounds so familiar to me
03:04 wizzyrea found it - bug 9774
03:04 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9774 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Search results shows "no holds allowed" for items "Waiting"
03:15 bag evening
03:16 wizzyrea yay, create a whole bunch of testing users at once!
03:16 wizzyrea borrowers, patrons, whatever
03:16 wizzyrea hi bag
03:17 bag hey wizzyrea
03:17 wahanui wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
03:17 wizzyrea LOL
03:17 bag hunks as in doods?
03:17 * druthb reboots her parser.
03:17 wizzyrea looool
03:18 * druthb looks for a string of good-looking men in mental institutions all around, with connections to wizzyrea.
03:18 wizzyrea I didn't know he had that trick up his sleeve
03:19 * wizzyrea is only married to one hunk
03:19 wizzyrea and he's not institutionalised.
03:19 cjh yet.
03:20 wizzyrea spellcheck++
03:20 bag trea is a dood hunk
03:20 * trea blinks.
03:20 cjh and now he is committed.
03:20 bag and a fan of himself
03:20 druthb wahanui: trea?
03:20 wahanui somebody said trea was a fan of Ender's Game too
03:20 bag or we a fan's of dood hunks like trea
03:20 trea i'm not insane. my mother had me tested.
03:21 cjh heh
03:22 wizzyrea that was a weird conversation.
03:38 mtj weird and sexy...
03:39 mtj its so hard these days, finding a hunk that values commitment
03:47 wizzyrea ^.^
04:18 dcook Hmm, anyone having issues doing phrase searches for titles with GMDs in square brackets?
04:18 dcook Mmm, I think I see the reason again
04:19 dcook I think jcamins might've outlined this once, but I don't think Zebra (at least with GRS-1) indexes the whole 245
04:19 dcook Or what I mean is...
04:19 dcook the melm 245 adds each subfield to the title index
04:19 dcook Rather than concatenating each subfield together to form one string to put in the title index...
04:28 dcook[…]ng_Zebra_indexing#.22Abandon_hope.2C_all_ye_who_enter.22
04:29 dcook Blegh...
04:29 dcook I understand the example but that's...blegh
04:41 AmitG joined #koha
04:41 AmitG papa around?
04:41 papa yep, hi
05:08 cait joined #koha
05:12 bag heya cait
05:12 cjh cait?
05:12 wahanui go back to bed, cait.
05:12 cait hi bag and cjh :)
05:12 cait cjh: wish i could :)
05:12 cjh eythian is <reply>go back to bed, eythian
05:13 cjh wahanui: eythian is <reply>go back to bed, eythian
05:13 wahanui ...but eythian is great at jokes. That everyone else misses them isn't his problem.|an expert bot trainer...
05:13 cjh wahanui: eythian is also <reply>go back to bed, eythian
05:13 wahanui okay, cjh.
05:17 cait cjh: heh
05:17 laurence joined #koha
05:17 cait eythian?
05:17 wahanui go back to bed, eythian
05:18 cait :)
05:18 dcook hehe
05:24 cait when is the irc meeting today?
05:24 cait someone good with timezones? :)
05:24 cait or did i miss it already?
05:25 dcook I think it's already past?
05:25 dcook @wunder sydney, australia
05:25 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney Airport, New South Wales is 15.0°C (3:00 PM EST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.47 in 1032 hPa (Falling).
05:25 dcook For some reason I thought that would have UTC...
05:26 dcook Or maybe it's in 5 hours..
05:26 dcook 4.5 maybe..
05:26 dcook cait: Yep, I think it's in 4.5 hours
05:26 cait oh
05:26 cait ok
05:27 dcook Someone did a great job on the OPAC XSLT
05:27 dcook Of course, it makes my record type facet look terrible now :p
05:31 dcook Hmm, maybe I'll just change my record type facet to accord with the defs laid out in the XSLT...that could work
05:36 bag hmmm…  need a bit of logic help
05:37 dcook Logic?
05:37 dcook I like logic :D
05:37 cait too early in th emorning for that
05:37 cait :P
05:37 bag I'm creating a script to map leader positions or 008 positions to create itypes for a library that is not automated ...
05:38 bag but somewhere in my script if the record does not have a 008 - it bombs out
05:38 dcook Certainly sounds like a logic issue
05:39 dcook Neat idea, btw
05:39 bag so I know I need to add a - well SHIT if there isn't a 008 then skip the record dood
05:39 dcook lol
05:39 bag but it's just not clear to me at the moment
05:39 dcook Depends on how you're iterating through your collection of records, I suppose
05:40 dcook And with what language
05:40 bag language is bag = dumbass :P
05:41 bag well I'm just selecting bib number from items  (got items but no itypes)…
05:41 dcook Not sure I follow..
05:42 bag then running it through about 30 if eslif (leader 6 = 'a') && (008 = "i") make it this itype
05:42 bag or just leader 6 = 'c' make it this itype
05:43 bag but for some reason if there isn't a 008 in the record it doesn't make it down to my final esle - which say nothing found make it UNKONWN itype
05:43 bag basically dcook it's reading shitty perl by a tired person :P
05:43 bag heh
05:44 dcook Are you checking to see if you have an 008 defined before doing that elsif?
05:45 dcook If not, I'm sure you would get a "008 is not defined..." warning that would stop your script
05:45 dcook I know I've certainly done that when trying to extract values from a MARC object in Perl
05:47 dcook Oh my...DisplayOPACiconsXSLT does not make sense...
05:47 dcook But I don't overly want to fix it at the moment...
05:48 dcook Bug report!
06:22 drojf joined #koha
06:22 drojf good morning #koha
06:23 cait good morning drojf
06:23 drojf hi cait :)
06:23 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
06:24 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 19.7°C (8:13 AM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
06:24 BobB joined #koha
06:24 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:24 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 18.3°C (8:20 AM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
06:24 cait hi BobB :)
06:25 BobB hi cait  :)
06:25 BobB @wunder Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
06:25 huginn` BobB: Error: No such location could be found.
06:26 BobB @wunder Sydney NSW
06:26 huginn` BobB: Error: No such location could be found.
06:26 BobB Well, we're here.
06:26 drojf hi BobB
06:26 drojf lol
06:26 drojf @wunder sydney, australia
06:26 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 15.0°C (4:00 PM EST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.45 in 1031 hPa (Steady).
06:26 BobB Hurumphhhh
06:26 BobB But thanks!  :)
06:26 drojf :)
06:39 sophie_m joined #koha
06:40 dcook I thought there was some vandalism until I realized I was the one who put in that test ISBN...
06:40 dcook My test bib? "Alcohol and alcoholism : international journal of the Medical Council on Alcoholism"
06:40 dcook Seemed relevant to that cover image...
06:43 lds joined #koha
06:44 cait left #koha
06:50 reiveune joined #koha
06:50 reiveune hello
06:50 wahanui bidet, reiveune
06:58 christophe_c joined #koha
06:58 christophe_c hello #koha
07:22 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:22 gaetan_B hello
07:25 * dcook waves to gaetan_B
07:25 dcook That moment when you spend 15 minutes cleverly figuring out a way to make a Record Type facet match the "Type" of the XSLT...just to realize that you're really just changing the label for the same value: "a"
07:26 dcook And that there is no reason to have "Book" and "Continuing Resource" when they're both of "Language material" or "Text" type...
07:26 dcook Oy...
07:33 dcook All right. Night time.
07:50 kf joined #koha
07:50 kf good morning #koha
07:54 gerundio joined #koha
08:11 sophie_m Guten Morgen kf
08:11 kf hi sophie_m :)
08:22 pug joined #koha
08:36 drojf joined #koha
08:42 eythian hi
08:43 drojf hi eythian
08:46 drojf i wanted to send a meeting reminder to the mailing list but can't access that email account at the moment. if somebody else feels like doing it, go ahead
08:46 gerundio joined #koha
09:18 rangi @wunder nzwn
09:18 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (9:00 PM NZST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: 30.42 in 1030 hPa (Rising).
09:24 eythian @wunder brighton, uk
09:24 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 21.6°C (10:15 AM BST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
09:29 wizzyrea 10 seems optimistic
09:31 rangi yeah, its more like 7
09:33 rangi hmm 8.8 apparently
09:33 rangi[…]asp?ID=IWELLING75
09:37 cjh so the meeting is in 20 mins?
09:37 drojf joined #koha
09:38 cjh leaving for home now, hope to make it..
09:39 rangi yep
09:49 * drojf hopes somebody will bring meeting cookies
09:55 kf cookies
09:56 eythian wahanui: cookies
09:56 wahanui Cookies are delicious delicacies
09:56 wizzyrea cookies! Cookies for everyone!
09:59 cjh and back xD
09:59 gerundio joined #koha
10:00 jwagner joined #koha
10:02 drojf church bells say it's time for a meeting ;)
10:02 oleonard joined #koha
10:03 oleonard Hi #koha
10:04 jwagner My calendar says there's a meeting....
10:04 BobB I think we're waiting for a chairperson?
10:05 kf are we?
10:05 kf gmcharlt: ? :)
10:06 kf worth a try
10:06 drojf oh look, kf volunteered :)
10:06 wizzyrea #startmeeting
10:06 huginn` wizzyrea: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'
10:06 wahanui if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me
10:06 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn`.
10:06 BobB :)
10:06 thd Someone in some other part of the world must be awake.
10:06 wizzyrea #startmeeting Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13
10:06 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jul 10 10:06:34 2013 UTC.  The chair is wizzyrea. Information about MeetBot at
10:06 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
10:06 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:06 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'koha_irc_meeting_10_7_13'
10:06 kf wizzyrea: thx :)
10:06 wizzyrea #topic introductions
10:06 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
10:06 Topic for #koha is now introductions (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:06 wizzyrea gogo
10:06 kf #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
10:07 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, Catalyst IT
10:07 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
10:07 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
10:07 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin
10:07 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
10:07 BobB #info Bob Birchall, Calyx, Australia
10:07 eythian #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT
10:07 cjh #info Chris Hall, Catalyst IT
10:07 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City (asleep)
10:08 kf lots of catalyst tonight :)
10:08 wizzyrea Alright, welcome everybody to the July edition of the Koha IRC community meeting
10:08 wizzyrea we'll start with
10:08 wizzyrea #topic Announcements
10:08 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:08 wizzyrea anybody got any?
10:09 oleonard If anyone hasn't heard, I'm working on a new theme for the OPAC
10:09 wizzyrea we are running a copy of oleonard's responsive bootstrap opac at
10:09 cjh awesome
10:09 kf wizzyrea: can we send that to the maling list maybe?
10:09 kf wizzyrea: culd get more libraries involved in testing
10:09 wizzyrea not really sure about that kf
10:09 oleonard It's still a work-in-progress, but I'm interested in getting feedback
10:10 thd oleonard: Is that also fully resizeable with no commitment to particular screen size?
10:10 wizzyrea thd: you should check it
10:10 oleonard thd: Responsive, yes
10:10 wizzyrea ;)
10:10 mtj hi all
10:10 mtj #info Mason James, NZ
10:10 wizzyrea #action Liz will check about sending the responsive demo to the mailing list
10:11 wizzyrea other announcements?
10:11 wizzyrea Alrighty then, on to
10:11 wizzyrea #topic 3.8 update
10:11 Topic for #koha is now 3.8 update (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:11 wizzyrea cjh, over to you
10:11 thd oleonard: just making certain people who believe the world is exactly 960 pixels wide have not been creeping in the back door.
10:11 mtj #info[…]ing,_10_July_2013
10:11 cjh Things have been very quiet since 3.8.14
10:12 cjh the problem we had with 3.8.14 regarding translations may have a fix, email from bgkriegel that I have to look into, so hopefully 3.8.15 will have some new translations :)
10:12 wizzyrea you planning a 15?
10:12 kf thd: I think oleonard has proven he is not one of those people
10:12 wizzyrea cool, so yes
10:13 cjh 3.10.x hasnt had any more patches since it's last release, so I will have to check bugzilla for that, the translations themselves might justify a 3.8.15.
10:13 wizzyrea #info 3.8.15, assuming that the translations are fixed, will be on schedule
10:14 cjh I think that is everything I have worth saying.
10:14 kf cjh++ :)
10:14 wizzyrea how are you feeling about retiring the 3.8 line?
10:15 wizzyrea or, how is *anyone* feeling about retiring the 3.8 line
10:15 kf hm i think we always said that we will maintain it as long as someone wants to maintain
10:15 cjh my thinking was that at the 3.14 release I wouldn't continue, so it depends if someone else wanted to carry it on.
10:15 rangi releases are always maintained as long as someone wants to maintain them
10:16 drojf will we have packages of older releases at some point?
10:16 slef #info MJ Ray, member, England
10:16 wizzyrea #info cjh thinks he will stop as maintainer for 3.8 after the Pi release
10:16 rangi drojf: hasnt happened yet
10:16 kf so i think if cjh is willing to continue until 3.14 that would be nice?
10:17 eythian drojf: if you want to build and maintain them :)
10:17 drojf eythian: i don't :)
10:17 eythian (or, there's sufficient call for them, which hasn't really happened)
10:17 wizzyrea cjh++, thanks for the update
10:17 cjh kf: that is the plan :)
10:17 wizzyrea #topic 3.10 update
10:17 Topic for #koha is now 3.10 update (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:18 kf :)
10:18 cjh I don't think Bernardo is here
10:19 wizzyrea I think the maintainer is not around - my knowledge of it is that releases are continuing on schedule
10:19 wizzyrea soo
10:19 wizzyrea #topic 3.12 update
10:19 Topic for #koha is now 3.12 update (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:19 wizzyrea is tcohen about?
10:19 kf hm might be a little early for him not sure
10:20 wizzyrea also not, so the same update there as well - releases are continuing on schedule.
10:20 wizzyrea does anyone have anything they would like to bring up for posterity regarding 3.10 or 3.12 at this time?
10:20 eythian oh one thing
10:20 wahanui i think one thing is sure there is no  AllowIssuingForPatronsWithOverdues in C4/ in the untarred source tree of koha-3.02.01.tar.gz
10:20 kf tcohen++ bgkriegel++? :)
10:21 oleonard Hush wahanui
10:21 wizzyrea continue, eythian :)
10:21 eythian a minor thing is that 3.12 has a new dependency, so the next release will require a dist-upgrade rather than a normal one.
10:21 eythian Just making sure it's documented somewhere.
10:21 eythian (this catches people out whenever it happens)
10:22 wizzyrea #info 3.12 has a new dependency, it will require a dist-upgrade instead of a normal upgrade for package users
10:22 wizzyrea cool, thanks eythian
10:22 wizzyrea speaking of, it's not in the agenda - but
10:22 wizzyrea #topic packaging update
10:22 Topic for #koha is now packaging update (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:22 wizzyrea anything to note really?
10:22 cjh heh
10:23 wizzyrea besides what is already noted? :P
10:23 eythian not really.
10:23 wizzyrea excellent. no news is good news.
10:23 eythian it's all fine.
10:23 wizzyrea right - so
10:23 wizzyrea #topic 3.14 update
10:23 Topic for #koha is now 3.14 update (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:23 wizzyrea gmcharlt?
10:23 wahanui rumour has it gmcharlt is an expert in all things library technology
10:23 wizzyrea well yes, but is he around?
10:24 wizzyrea I highly doubt it.
10:24 kf you know the ninja he is...
10:24 wizzyrea QA, would you like to say anything?
10:24 kf might just show up any second out of nowhere
10:24 BobB :)
10:24 kf hm i guess the usual: please people, keep testing and test well, sign off and write test plans
10:24 kf oh and also, try to go beyond the test plan of the developer
10:25 kf ask yourself what else might break and if the change makes sense
10:25 drojf i'm german, we follow orders
10:25 kf shush
10:25 kf :)
10:25 wizzyrea #info QA requests "please people, keep testing and test well, sign off and write test plans"
10:25 cjh kf++
10:25 kf so nothing new really ;)
10:25 wizzyrea #info and please try to go beyond the test plan of the developer
10:25 kf thx wizzyrea :)
10:26 wizzyrea #info ask yourself what else might break and if the change makes sense
10:26 wizzyrea How are the queues looking?
10:26 kf dashboard?
10:26 wahanui i heard dashboard was at
10:26 kf not too bad
10:26 kf i think we need someone lookig at unimarc patches
10:27 wizzyrea #action someone please look at unimarc patches. It's getting a little silly.
10:27 kf and we have some bigger patches going back and forth
10:27 kf hey, i didn't say that! :)
10:27 wizzyrea I did!
10:27 wizzyrea ;)
10:27 wizzyrea #info let the record show that it was wizzyrea who proclaimed the level of unimarc patches "silly," not kf
10:28 kf heh
10:28 mtj 'needs signoff' is quite high, atm
10:28 rangi nothing in there is very old to
10:28 rangi tho
10:29 drojf i think a lot goes in, a lot goes out
10:29 wizzyrea #info get busy signoffers! only about 3 months left! (ish)
10:29 kf oh wow true!
10:29 mtj thats a nice point chris :)
10:29 wizzyrea yea the turnover seems quite good lately
10:30 wizzyrea #info nothing in the signoff queue is all too old, so good work on that. Keep it up!
10:30 drojf we are a productive bunch of people ;)
10:30 rangi[…]?s=Koha&p=Koha&c=
10:31 wizzyrea ok, if there's nothing else about 3.14 (code name Pi)
10:31 wizzyrea on to
10:31 mtj fwiw, 'needs signoff' was very low 3 months ago… such is progress :)
10:31 wizzyrea #topic Kohacon13
10:31 Topic for #koha is now Kohacon13 (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:31 wizzyrea 3 months ago we released ^.^
10:31 wizzyrea updates on kohacon? how is the planning going?
10:32 wizzyrea hm seems no one is around who wants to talk about that eh
10:32 wizzyrea fair enough -
10:32 BobB I'll be coming.  We think (at the mo') that Irma may not this time.
10:33 wizzyrea yes, quick poll, how many in attendance are planning to go to Kohacon?
10:33 BobB +1
10:33 thd +1
10:33 rangi +1
10:33 slef 0
10:33 drojf 0
10:34 kf what are we voting?
10:34 wizzyrea 0 (lianza instead)
10:34 kf sorry, got distracted for a sec :)
10:34 rangi if we are going to kohacon
10:34 wizzyrea attendance to kohacon
10:34 kf +1!
10:34 * kf wants to mention the volunteers page
10:34 kf[…]aCon13_Volunteers
10:34 eythian 0
10:34 cjh 0
10:35 oleonard +1
10:35 mtj 0
10:35 wizzyrea cool, so a few in attendance are going, and it should be a good time :D
10:35 wizzyrea #topic Kohacon14
10:35 kf :)
10:35 Topic for #koha is now Kohacon14 (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:36 drojf i said i'd send a mail to the list asking for proposals, which i did[…]-June/036518.html
10:36 drojf i set up a wiki page for the proposals and we already got a first entry by tcohen and bgkriegel for kohacon in argentina[…]Con2014_Proposals
10:36 kf I think we got one proposal from argentina
10:36 wizzyrea ah good someone who has something to talk about!
10:36 kf I think next step would be setting a date for the vote?
10:36 kf that might also trigger more proposals
10:36 wizzyrea when do you want to cut off the proposals?
10:37 wizzyrea no later than kohacon?
10:37 wizzyrea or a month in advance?
10:37 drojf i'd say around kohacon13
10:37 wizzyrea let's say have the vote a few weeks before Kohacon, so that the organisers can meet and hobnob
10:38 drojf a few weeks before kohacon is now :P
10:38 wizzyrea errr
10:38 wizzyrea it's in october :P
10:38 drojf so voting beginning of october?
10:38 drojf that is only a few weeks away ;)
10:39 wizzyrea yep, and submissions by mid september
10:39 thd wizzyrea. I think that drojf is correct meaning that you would be setting an impossible case.
10:39 rangi what?
10:39 BobB No, Sept is two months away.
10:40 wizzyrea kohacon14
10:40 rangi you cant really have the vote after october
10:40 kf i think another reminder to the list and begining of october/end of september
10:40 rangi that would make it impossible to actually organise a functional conference (or at least very very hard)
10:40 kf and make sure we get the voting mechanism and tool sorted way in advance
10:40 wizzyrea #info submissions due by 15 September, voting to commence first week of October
10:41 drojf i'd send another mail asking for proposals a little before next meeting so we can have a look at the outcome at the meeting
10:41 wizzyrea will you do that drojf?
10:41 drojf yes
10:41 kf drojf++ :)
10:41 wizzyrea #action drojf will send a reminder for people to get in their proposals by September 15
10:41 BobB Cook is out.  England 1-27 (for those who know what that means)
10:41 wizzyrea drojf++
10:42 thd If we have people giving attention to proposed venues at this time the case may not be impossible, otherwise Argentina would be chosen by default.
10:42 rangi im fine with taht
10:42 wizzyrea #topic Action items from last meeting
10:42 Topic for #koha is now Action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:43 rangi its not like this is some new conference
10:43 wizzyrea we are still working diligently to "test all the things" so can put a tick next to that one
10:43 wizzyrea (but keep it up please and thank you)
10:43 kf :)
10:43 wizzyrea and drojf is again on the hook for kohacon emails :) but other than that, I think we are done here
10:44 wizzyrea #topic Anything else?
10:44 Topic for #koha is now Anything else? (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:44 kf nope
10:44 drojf more cookies
10:44 wizzyrea Thank you all very much for your attention and commitment to the community, we will see you back here next month (if not before!)
10:44 drojf we should set a date ;)
10:44 thd :)
10:44 kf and a time
10:45 wizzyrea oh yes
10:45 wizzyrea #topic time and date of next meeting
10:45 Topic for #koha is now time and date of next meeting (Meeting topic: Koha IRC meeting 10-7-13)
10:45 wizzyrea someone who is good at calendars please help
10:45 drojf i think it's the uneuropean timeslot. 2UTC?
10:45 kf 7th?
10:45 wahanui i guess 7th is worth a try
10:45 wizzyrea 7 Aug, 2UTC?
10:46 * kf will be sleeping
10:46 * drojf too
10:46 wizzyrea #agreed Next meeting is 7 Aug, 2013, 0200 UTC
10:47 wizzyrea because no one stopped me to tell me otherwise
10:47 thd Would anyone objecgt to 14 Aug.?
10:47 wizzyrea mmm we usually do it first week
10:47 drojf unless brooke visits the opera
10:47 wizzyrea errr
10:47 thd Oh actually 2 UTC is not an obstacle for the first week.
10:47 kf i think shorter is better than longer
10:47 kf ok, have to go - bbl
10:48 wizzyrea ok, 7th is alright - all ok :)
10:48 thd +1 14 Aug. 2 UTC
10:48 thd +1 7 Aug. 2 UTC
10:48 thd s/14/7/
10:48 wizzyrea :)
10:48 wizzyrea gotya
10:48 wizzyrea Thank you all again, have a good $timeofday
10:48 wizzyrea #endmeeting
10:48 BobB Thanks wizzyrea
10:48 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the Koha IRC channel. The next general meeting is 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC. Please use for long pastes
10:48 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jul 10 10:48:49 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
10:48 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-10-10.06.html
10:48 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]3-07-10-10.06.txt
10:48 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-10.06.log.html
10:48 drojf wizzyrea++
10:49 BobB thd, oleonard I will look forward to meeting you in Reno.
10:49 mtj wizzyrea++ nice driving
10:49 oleonard wizzyrea++
10:49 * wizzyrea only drives because no one else seems to want to :P
10:50 * oleonard caught a possum in his back yard last night
10:50 thd I will be pleased to see everyone in Reno.
10:50 * oleonard wonders what to do with it
10:50 BobB ???
10:50 BobB kidding, surely?
10:51 oleonard Nope.
10:51 thd oleonard: Build a possum gymnasium.
10:51 oleonard Live trap, baited with some fruit.
10:51 oleonard We just got baby bunnies, and we knew some kind of animal had been coming to the back yard.
10:51 BobB squirrel, p'raps
10:52 thd Possums are much better gymnasts than baby bunnies.
10:53 drojf have a possum BBQ?
10:53 * thd continues sleeping in the darkness where the possums cannot find me
10:53 BobB[…]ca-all-explained/
10:53 BobB You had me going there  :)
10:53 wizzyrea animal control?
10:54 wizzyrea possums have those weird ratlike tails
10:54 wizzyrea and pointy faces
10:55 oleonard Ah, so Australia has cute possums, America has terrifying devil possums
10:55 rangi possums are bad wrong and evil
10:55 wizzyrea they put out poison pellets to kill them off
10:55 wizzyrea they are quite bad about the birds, I think
10:56 rangi[…]ests-a-z/possums/
10:56 wizzyrea now, hedgehogs, on the other hand
10:56 wizzyrea are adorable pests.
10:56 rangi they are fine in australia
10:56 rangi bad in nz
10:56 rangi we dont have dingos to kill them
10:56 rangi and they arent cute when they are hissing and clawing their way up your leg
10:56 drojf i think it's lovely[…]_819581de1c_o.jpg
10:57 BobB Anything introduced is generally bad
10:57 drojf i bet it likes black metal. maybe it is even a black metal singer
10:57 BobB Cane toads!@!**@!
10:58 rangi possum + merino = nice clothes
10:58 * wizzyrea imagines bald possums, shudders
10:58 rangi[…]m-merino-knitwear
10:58 rangi you kills them first
10:58 rangi serves them right for eating kiwis
10:59 wizzyrea yes, they should not eat kiwis. :( Kiwis are cute.
10:59 rangi deer too
10:59 rangi and rabbits
11:00 rangi and then the stoats they introduced to kill the rabbits
11:00 rangi that dude was a genius!
11:00 rangi[…]pests-a-z/stoats/
11:01 wizzyrea blarg
11:01 wizzyrea more cats now too eh
11:01 wizzyrea ok stoats are reasonably cute.
11:01 wizzyrea but still vile.
11:02 BobB good night #koha
11:02 rangi yeah cats are super bad when you have flightless birds
11:02 rangi cos cats kill for fun
11:02 oleonard I'll be back later
11:02 rangi psychos
11:02 oleonard I'll check the logs for more info on wild animals
11:02 drojf who needs birds if you can have cats?
11:03 * wizzyrea has the friendliest tui in her neighborhood
11:03 wizzyrea chatty thing, we talk every morning
11:04 rangi
11:05 wizzyrea <3
11:05 wizzyrea the one in my neighborhood has a specific call for me
11:05 wizzyrea it's the same every day
11:05 wizzyrea breeeeet <click click click>
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11:21 marcelr hi #koha
11:24 wizzyrea hm might be bedtime
11:24 eythian I think you mean lunchtime.
11:24 wizzyrea thanks, I had curry for lunch
11:25 wizzyrea but yes have a good lunch I'll jabber at you all on the flip side
11:25 eythian later
11:25 kf :)
11:48 eythian[…]ity-free-software
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12:05 oleonard Hi #koha
12:08 oleonard Because I know you were all waiting to see my catch:
12:11 jcamins oleonard: what is that, and where did you catch it?
12:12 oleonard It's an American Opossum, and I caught it in my back yard.
12:13 oleonard (this is why you shouldn't miss meetings jcamins, you miss out on all sorts of stuff)
12:13 jcamins But you know what I didn't miss out on? I didn't miss out on sleep.
12:32 chris_n nice catch oleonard; did he hiss much at you?
12:32 oleonard No hissing, just baring of teeth. He was a very bummed-out possum.
12:33 chris_n heh, I imagine so
12:37 khall mornin all!
12:37 khall oleonard: this patch could use a bit of your UI magic:[…]_bug.cgi?id=10558
12:37 huginn` Bug 10558: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Convert records table in to ajax DataTable
12:39 oleonard I'll take a look khall
12:40 khall thanks!
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12:51 oleonard khall: What does the OPAC's course reserves search form search?
12:53 khall oleonard: department, course number, section, course name, term, public note, intstructor
12:53 oleonard So basically everything :)
12:53 oleonard Thanks
12:53 khall pretty much!
12:54 khall One note: search by instructor has to by "Firstname Surname" or "Surname Firstname"
12:54 khall I mean "Surname, Firstname"
13:02 drojf oleonard: great catch. what are you doing with it now?
13:02 oleonard drojf: Trying to decide whose yard to release it in ;)
13:02 drojf lol
13:03 kf oleonard: well done!
13:03 jcamins @wunder 11375
13:03 huginn` jcamins: The current temperature in Glendale, Glendale, New York is 24.9°C (8:58 AM EDT on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
13:03 eythian oleonard: the annoying neighbour's window counts as a yard, right?
13:04 eythian @wunder BN1 1AL
13:04 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 25.6°C (2:01 PM BST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Steady).
13:04 kf @wunder Konstanz
13:04 huginn` kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 28.0°C (3:00 PM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
13:05 oleonard An Ohio Department of Wildlife official told us that if we caught a raccoon we should shoot it.
13:05 oleonard ...all us Americans each having a gun, naturally.
13:05 jcamins oleonard: naturally.
13:05 eythian he meant with a camera.
13:05 * oleonard hopes it's legal to shoot a possum with a camera in this state
13:06 * eythian reports oleonard
13:06 * kf stops eythian
13:06 kf we still need him to finish the new theme
13:06 oleonard I believe the original Joy of Cooking had dressing instructions for possums... it did for other varmints.
13:08 jcamins oleonard: I think it did, yes.
13:08 kf hm but wouldn't it just lick off the dressing?
13:09 oleonard :P
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13:36 kf bug 10401
13:36 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10401 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Add ability to merge invoices
13:48 oleonard Bugzilla upgrade? Things look different
13:49 oleonard Dashboard? New Case? New Run?
13:49 NateC joined #koha
13:50 eythian I wonder if that's a plugin
13:56 kf it#s something rangi and gmcharlt were testing
13:56 kf ithink you can savely ignore the dashboard line right now
13:56 kf i asked rangi this morning about it
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14:03 kf oleonard++ :)
14:11 mcooper joined #koha
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14:21 gmcharlt oleonard: yep, something I'm playing with -- goal is to have some place to store test plans
14:21 eythian @wunder BN1 1AL
14:21 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 25.5°C (3:15 PM BST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Steady).
14:25 bshum joined #koha
14:34 jcamins oleonard: do you know of any examples where we visually highlight a row on a table?
14:35 oleonard On the items edit page if you are editing one of the existing items
14:35 jcamins Thanks.
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14:45 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
14:45 mtompset Slept it too late for the meeting. :(
14:45 mtompset ^it^in^
14:46 drojf what is a good (and free, preferably as in freedom) text editor with syntax highlighting (html is enough) for mac os?
14:47 eythian vim?
14:47 wahanui well, vim is at[…]dex.php?title=Vim
14:48 jcamins Definitely vim.
14:50 drojf ...for somebody that starts learning html
14:50 eythian now you go with the scope creep.
14:50 jcamins TextWrangler?
14:51 drojf jcamins: i found that. is it good?
14:52 jcamins drojf: it's not vim, but other than that it seems fine.
14:52 jcamins Shari's been using it.
14:52 drojf looks like it is only free as in beer but i think that will do for the person who is supposed to use it
14:52 drojf thanks :)
14:53 tcohen joined #koha
14:55 mtompset Greetings, jcamins eythian drojf.
14:56 tcohen joined #koha
14:56 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
14:56 tcohen hi mtompset
14:58 jenkins_koha Starting build #1299 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:59 mtompset Okay... feature idea: if a user has catalogue or superlibrarian access they can override the OpacHiddenItems for their branch or completely in OPAC. Good, bad, strange? Feedback anyone?
14:59 eythian to what end?
14:59 eythian they can just use the staff client.
15:01 mtompset To allow patrons who are not staff, but are allowed to see hidden collections to see them.
15:02 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: bug 10356: improve display of serial issue dates in staff bib details page <[…]1b216d2bab8efbdc9>
15:03 mtompset If the patrons were only staff who wanted this, I would agree that the staff client is the way to go, eythian.
15:03 eythian but if they have those permissions, they are staff.
15:03 eythian It's the wrong approach anyway
15:04 eythian If you want certain borrowers to be able to see suppressed thing, create an attribute for borrowers called "can see suppressed things"
15:04 eythian don't overload something else, especially something important.
15:04 mtompset so extended attributes, that makes sense.
15:05 tcohen if it will be on koha's business logic then not an extended attribute
15:05 eythian dunno about extended attributes specifically, they tend to be less function-oriented.
15:05 eythian But something.
15:05 wahanui somebody said something was fishy
15:05 eythian yeah, what tcohen said
15:06 eythian I'm wondering about an option in the patron categories settings.
15:06 eythian so you can apply it to a range of "special" people.
15:06 mtompset So actually modifying the borrower record for this attribute?
15:06 mtompset by patron category...
15:06 mtompset That's possible.
15:06 mtompset That's cleaner.
15:06 eythian not the borrower record, the borrower categories.
15:09 drojf mtompset: but you need a user category for it? in contrast to "show it to people that are logged in, not to those who are not"?
15:10 drojf i mean, you want to also have users that can login, but not see the hidden stuff?
15:10 drojf can't form useful sentences after 7 hours in the office
15:11 mtompset Yes, users could login without seein everything.
15:11 eythian They have a lot of secret codexes to hide.
15:14 drojf does OpacHiddenItems really hide the items (and show the biblios)?
15:16 mtompset I believe so.
15:17 drojf and that is what you want?
15:17 drojf if i find a biblio in the opac that has no items i would wonder why it is in the opac in the first place
15:19 drojf or do you only have secret doublets to hide?
15:20 eythian I tend to think they should be hidden anyway. Perhaps with conditions that show them, e.g. has an 856 entry.
15:22 eythian @marc 856
15:22 huginn` eythian: The information needed to locate and access an electronic resource. The field may be used in a bibliographic record for a resource when that resource or a subset of it is available electronically. In addition, it may be used to locate and access an electronic version of a non-electronic resource described in the bibliographic record or a related electronic resource. (Repeatable) (1 more message)
15:22 eythian @marc 852
15:22 huginn` eythian: Identifies the organization holding the item or from which it is available. May also contain detailed information about how to locate the item in a collection. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,p,q,s,t,u,x,z,2,3,6,8]
15:22 eythian I often confuse those two numbers. Not this time however.
15:24 mtompset drojf: Yes, that's what I'd want.
15:24 drojf you have weird secrets
15:24 drojf and our secrets are more secret than yours apparently :P
15:24 mtompset Yes, yes we do.
15:24 mtompset because you don't catalogue them? ;)
15:25 drojf we suppress the biblio
15:25 drojf from search results and, coming soon, the detail view
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15:29 khall gmcharlt, rangi, jcamins, et al : I'm working on a Patron Lists feature not dissimilar to the record lists feature Koha already has. I have a namespace question. I've started writing it using patron_lists as the table and Koha::PatronLists as the namesapce. I'm wondering if I should switch to BorrowerLists, however, I'm concerned it seems like lists *for* borrowers, and not lists *of* borrowers. In addition, I like the idea of moving
15:30 jcamins khall: idea of moving... [cut off here]
15:30 khall like the idea of moving our internal nomenclature to match our external nomenclature. Any input would be great. I don't have to get all the way done and have to rename everything!
15:30 khall s/moving/making/
15:30 reiveune bye
15:30 reiveune left #koha
15:32 jcamins khall: well, I'm the wrong person to ask about nomenclature.
15:32 jcamins I have had to rename every single class I've written at least once.
15:33 khall heh!
15:33 eythian There are two tricky problems in computer science: caching, naming things, and fencepost errors.
15:33 khall I imagine gmcharlt is the go to for this, but I'm not sure when he'll be around. I guess I'll just push on and worry about it later.
15:33 christophe_c left #koha
15:35 jcamins He was here an hour ago.
15:35 eythian @seen gmcharlt
15:35 huginn` eythian: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 14 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> oleonard: yep, something I'm playing with -- goal is to have some place to store test plans
15:35 gmcharlt khall: given the wide disparity of internal naming for patrons in particular, it's not like you have a single example to point to maintain consistency with
15:35 gmcharlt consequently, using "patron" in the class name is fine with me
15:36 drojf or you could come up with yet another naming for patrons
15:36 khall gmcharlt: thanks!
15:36 eythian "Personages"
15:36 drojf one we have not covered
15:36 gmcharlt well, let's not do what drojf suggests ;)
15:36 khall to nitpick even further: Koha::PatronLists vs Koha::Patron::Lists?
15:37 gmcharlt khall: more the former; the latter kinda implies that lists are an attribute of a patron, which isn't the case
15:37 khall drojf:  I suppose we could use Loanees ; )
15:38 khall gmcharlt: agreed. Thanks for the input!
15:38 drojf khall: oh that's fantastic
15:38 gmcharlt another option might be Koha::Container::Patron, or Koha::List::Patron (to go along with a putative Koha::List::Biblio)
15:38 eythian K::L::P makes more sense to me
15:38 eythian assuming it's more of a list focus than a patron focus
15:38 khall yeah, I really like the idea of Koha::List::Patron
15:48 kf i wonder if sticking with the database names might be good
15:48 kf patrons is only english.... varies in translation and who knows
15:48 kf maybe in some years we decide to call them customers
15:49 kf guests... loaneess...
15:49 kf :)
15:49 eythian kf: it's only in some English, too
15:49 kf yeah
15:49 kf and i think we have a majority for borrowers still in the dtabase
15:50 gaetan_B bye!
15:50 kf and probably the template variables/scripts?
15:50 kf khall: ping :)
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15:56 gmcharlt kf: indeed
15:57 gmcharlt "patron" is very common in US (and I believe) Canada
15:58 gmcharlt whereas "member" doesn't really fit the vast majority of USian libraries -- there are very, very few libraries where getting a library card somehow gives you membership in the organization
15:58 kf there are various words in german too
15:58 kf Benutzer, Entleiher, Ausleiher, Kunden...
15:58 gmcharlt "borrower" is reasonably common and understood, but less commonly used
15:58 kf i thik we have more members and borrowers in the codebase currently, but that's only a feeling
15:59 drojf i think "kunden" is horrible in a library context
15:59 gmcharlt as a point of information, in many contexts, Evergreen calls the equivalent "user" (or "actor.usr") records
15:59 kf member because i think that's what most scripts do
15:59 kf and borrowers in the database
15:59 * drojf heads home
16:00 kf so i tend more in that direction but i am happy with whatever :)
16:00 * gmcharlt starts laughing uncontrollably
16:00 gmcharlt I started taking a look at what syspref names were doing
16:00 kf lol
16:00 kf you shouldn't do that
16:01 gmcharlt and came across this: PatronSelfRegistrationBorrowerMandatoryField
16:01 kf I protested about that
16:01 kf :)
16:01 kf it's on the bug!
16:01 kf heh
16:02 eythian gmcharlt: patron sounds quite weird in NZ english.
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16:02 gmcharlt eythian: yeah, I can see that; occassionally a USian will ask "since when does a public library get contributions from the nobility?"
16:02 kf hm how can i see if something is deleted as a cascade in mysql workbench... does someone know?
16:03 kf on cascade
16:03 melia left #koha
16:03 eythian gmcharlt: yes, that's my first definition too.
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16:04 jcamins kf: show create table
16:05 kf hm i will try that :)
16:06 kf hm i did try for borrowers
16:06 kf and i see nothing
16:06 kf is there nothing or is it me?
16:06 kf i was wondering about reviews, ratings, borrower_attributes etc
16:07 eythian the cascade appears on the side that would be cascaded to
16:07 eythian compare biblio->biblioitems->items
16:12 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1299: SUCCESS in 1 hr 14 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1299/
16:12 jenkins_koha Chris Hall: bug 10356: improve display of serial issue dates in staff bib details page
16:12 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10356 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, chrish, Pushed to Master , adding date published to catalogue detail page
16:13 kf eythian: thx
16:13 kf sorry, dumb wednesday i think
16:14 kf we do cascade for ratings :)
16:16 kf hm
16:16 kf we don't for search_history
16:16 kf interesting.
16:16 wahanui interesting is probably sometimes good and sometimes bad
16:18 oleonard Be careful to attribute to design what is more likely due to forgetfulness or laziness.
16:20 kf oleonard: totally true
16:20 kf i am pondering filing a bug for that
16:23 gmcharlt about that -- if we add a FK constraint, do we want it to casacde on delete or set null?
16:23 eythian it depends totally on what it is
16:24 gmcharlt the latter would have the effect of anonymous the search history of a deleted patron, while still leaving it available for the library to data-mine
16:24 eythian If that's a meaningful thing to do (which for search I'd say it is) then I'd say just set null
16:24 eythian or you might even not have an FK at all
16:24 gmcharlt which is the status quo
16:25 eythian right, if it's useful to know that they were separate borrowers, even if you don't know who they are, then not havin gthe FK might be the best way.
16:25 kf i think you could argue either way
16:25 jcamins Hmm. If I always buy the cheap soba noodles, does that mean I'm making copy pasta for lunch?
16:25 kf anonymizing should take those table into accounts i think
16:25 gmcharlt jcamins++
16:25 eythian or maybe you want to link them up to deleted_borrowers (is that a thing?)
16:25 kf i will have to come up with sql to delete patron data according to our privacy documentation... and it's all over the place
16:26 kf the patron data.
16:26 eythian that's the nature of normal forms :)
16:26 kf jcamins: lol
16:26 kf eythian: yeah yeah... i know
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17:07 gmcharlt liw++ #
17:10 kf liw++ :)
17:10 kf bye all
17:10 kf left #koha
17:12 mtompset Oooo... gmcharlt you gave me another idea.
17:12 * gmcharlt cowers
17:12 gmcharlt ;)
17:12 mtompset well, first to test a DBIx run.
17:12 * druthb runs and hides
17:13 mtompset second... why limit 1 if where false works.
17:19 * mtompset really appreciates the feedback and ideas the Koha community generates. :)
17:20 * mtompset throws skittles at druthb while druthb runs away. :P
17:20 druthb !
17:21 mtompset For the one time you randomly threw them at me. :P
17:21 mtompset SWEET!
17:21 druthb I've only chucked Skittles at you once?
17:22 mtompset Thankfully, yes.
17:22 * druthb must remember to do that more often.
17:22 mtompset That would be a strange way to show friendship. :P
17:22 pianohacker I like skittles
17:22 mtompset SWEET! The "WHERE 1=0" works!
17:23 mtompset and it is obviously faster than the LIMIT 1. :)
17:23 gmcharlt Skittles for EVERYBODY!
17:24 mtompset and WHERE 1=0 is ANSI SQL!
17:24 mtompset YAY! no extra function call or if's.
17:26 Callender joined #koha
17:53 mtompset "What if this rainbow doesn't exist?" --
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18:22 pianohacker hey #koha, bibliographic format bikeshedding time, if you're interested
18:23 pianohacker working on an SRU proxy for ebook providers, and I'm currently using dublin core (plus a namespaced extension for koha-specific stuff) as a simple generic metadata format
18:23 pianohacker any objections, better ideas?
18:24 pianohacker jcamins, gmcharlt: would be especially interested in your input
18:24 jcamins No objection from me.
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18:25 jcamins I'm not particularly pro-DC, but in this case you're presumably not getting anything richer than ONIX, so it would seem to make sense, and MODS would be a lot more overhead.
18:25 pianohacker okay. dublin core isn't perfect, very limited set of information, so any more comprehensive alternatives that aren't as complex as MARC would be welcomed :)
18:26 jcamins Well, MODS is at least moderately more sensible.
18:26 jcamins Or you could leapfrog the competition!
18:26 jcamins bibframe?
18:26 wahanui https://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfr[…]03089_animate.gif
18:26 gmcharlt pianohacker: as a least-common-denominator, it's possible that DC may be the best that you could do, though MODS might be better if the underlying data can support it
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18:27 gmcharlt on a broader note, though -- I think a bit more visibility is warranted for this sort of discussion -- i.e., koha-devel
18:27 pianohacker hrm, yeah. I'll send out a note
18:27 gmcharlt as snap judgments in IRC may not yield the best answers
18:27 pianohacker I don't know if I can make MODS work in this context, as the underlying JSON is... bare-bones
18:28 jcamins pianohacker: DC can be converted to MODS.
18:28 cait hi #koha
18:28 jcamins It'd just be kind of pitiful MODS.
18:30 pianohacker jcamins: Do you know of any pitiful-MODS examples? :) MODS is not an easy thing to google...
18:32 jcamins pianohacker: I'd just convert a DC record to a MODS record.
18:32 pianohacker fair enough. thanks
18:33 pianohacker I'd love it endlessly if some kind of standard format came back from these, but my expectations of technical competence from ebook vendors have gone down _drastically_ in the past month or two
18:34 mtompset greetings, cait pianohacker. :)
18:34 pianohacker hey mtompset
18:34 wahanui mtompset is disliking the silent warnings flooding his error logs.
18:34 gmcharlt one of the reasons why I giggle when library folks talk about ONIX in terms that make it sound like publishers never mess it up
18:34 mtompset Again not so true. More like happy due to pure ANSI SQL goodness. :)
18:38 pianohacker oh wow. ONIX is interesting but seems to have even more overhead than ONIX...
18:39 gmcharlt pianohacker: recursive data formats generally are ;-P
18:39 pianohacker ...
18:39 pianohacker wtf did I just type
18:39 gmcharlt heh
18:39 pianohacker *more overhead than MODS
18:40 pianohacker this feels like a describe-everything-ever syntax that would be _incredibly_ painful to work with in practice
19:24 * mtompset is frustrated by DBIx.
19:25 mtompset Back to what I should be working on.
19:29 jcamins pianohacker: apropos of nothing, do I recall hearing that you were going to be revisiting your Connexion-esque MARC editor interface?
19:30 pianohacker yes! that's my next project, currently waiting on client feedback before I get started
19:30 pianohacker can't wait, have wanted to make it a full, powerful editor for years now
19:31 pianohacker won't have as interesting a data model as biblionarrator, but should be much better than koha's current marc editor
19:32 pianohacker it even has a top secret codename, it has to be good
19:32 jcamins Well, given that you can't jetison MARC, you're kind of limited in the creativity of data structures.
19:32 jcamins *jettison?
19:32 jcamins Yeah, two 't's.
19:32 cait ooh super secret name?
19:33 jcamins Operation Stop Librarian Teeth Gnashing is GO GO GO!
19:33 pianohacker hahahah yeah
19:33 pianohacker you should listen to nengard describe the current interface
19:34 jcamins I daresay she's probably someone more diplomatic and polite than I am. ;)
19:34 pianohacker she really hates it about as much as you can without insulting someone's mother
19:35 * jcamins crosses that line.
19:36 cait heh
19:36 cait our libraries are mostly not using it
19:36 cait becuse noone here actually catalogs marc :P
19:36 oleonard The interface has not changed significantly since it was introduced over 10 years ago.
19:37 oleonard People have loved to hate it pretty much all that time.
19:37 cait pianohacker: i should explain they use the software from the union catalog for cataloguing and then we sync
19:37 cait pianohacker: but i'd love to keep a simple form based interface for fast adds etc.
19:37 cait oleonard++ :)
19:37 pianohacker oleonard: Yeah, pretty much
19:38 pianohacker cait: Yeah, the current plan, to my knowledge, is to have the interface choice selectable by user
19:38 oleonard The fact that it hasn't been updated is testimony, I assume, to the difficulty of the task?
19:38 jcamins oleonard: and the tragedy of the commons.
19:38 jcamins Which reminds me.
19:38 jcamins My music stopped.
19:38 cait pianohacker: that sounds good - but maybe even make it possible to switch?
19:39 cait pick a stanard, but make it possible to switch
19:39 pianohacker oleonard: I'd say so. My hacked-together text MARC editor was a hell of an effort, and that didn't support authorities, broken-out fixed fields, any number of things...
19:40 pianohacker cait: yeah, most likely. Not sure how much the client wants, but I'll try to make it easy to expand that later if needed
19:44 cait k
19:44 cait maybe ask them about fas cataloguing ;)
19:44 cait :)
19:45 pianohacker worth a shot. what is the union cataloging interface you mentioned like?
19:46 cait hm tht is text based, but not marc
19:46 cait some internal format, using four number codes for fields and subfields like marc
19:48 cait i think opinions about it vary too :)
19:48 cait probably not possible to build a cataloguing interface everyone likes
19:53 jcamins You know what'd be really cool? Some sort of coherent editor API so that people could add their own.
19:53 cait :)
19:53 * jcamins can think of...
19:53 jcamins zero...
19:53 jcamins librarians who would take advantage of it.
19:53 jcamins But it'd be cool.
20:01 pianohacker jcamins: We're halfway there, with the scripts in /svc/
20:02 pianohacker Really we just need something to dump framework information and we're there
20:02 jcamins pianohacker: and something to handle items.
20:02 pianohacker ah, true
20:02 jcamins I didn't think that the /svc/ scripts coped with items.
20:03 rangi we extended it to do that im pretty sure
20:03 rangi slef and papa did
20:03 jcamins Oh, cool.
20:03 jcamins I must've missed that.
20:04 jcamins I had looked at the /svc/ API for my cataloging interface, and I'm pretty sure I ultimately decided to just not use items.
20:04 rangi bug 7729
20:04 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7729 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mjr, CLOSED FIXED, svc API should allow modification of items
20:04 rangi thats the one
20:04 rangi ?items=1
20:04 jcamins Very nice.
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20:12 cait good morning kathryn :)
20:15 kathryn ah you beat me to it, hi cait :)
20:15 cait :)
20:16 kathryn and hello all :)
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20:47 cait @wunder konstanz
20:47 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 21.2°C (10:45 PM CEST on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
20:50 alohalog` joined #koha
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21:20 rambutan @wunder 64507
21:20 huginn` rambutan: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is 32.9°C (4:20 PM CDT on July 10, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 19.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Falling).
21:23 drnoe_away left #koha
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21:26 wizzyrea @wunder nzwn
21:26 huginn` wizzyrea: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (9:00 AM NZST on July 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 30.51 in 1033 hPa (Steady).
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21:52 pianohacker hey wizzyrea
21:52 wahanui wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
21:52 wizzyrea hi pianohacker :)
22:04 mtompset svc? Did someone say svc scripts?
22:04 mtompset pianohacker: What are you doing with svc scripts? :)
22:07 pianohacker mtompset: ah, we were talking about whether you could make an external MARC editor with them
22:07 pianohacker consensus was you could. I think all that could be missing is frameworks
22:07 mtompset That would be a cool idea!
22:07 pianohacker yup. The MARC editor I'm going to be working on soonish will be more integrated than that, but it is a cool idea
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22:55 mtompset If I'm in, can I get the user id using C4::Context?
22:59 tcohen bye #koha
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23:22 dcook morning #koha
23:24 pianohacker hey dcook
23:24 dcook hey pianohacker
23:24 wahanui I HATE XML
23:24 dcook lol
23:24 pianohacker yup yup
23:24 pianohacker he speaks the truth
23:24 pianohacker how's it going, dcook?
23:25 dcook Mmm, not too bad. Reading about OOP, hopefully renewing a lease, and looking at XSLT in a moment :p
23:25 dcook How about you?
23:26 mtompset hey pianohacker?!
23:26 wahanui I HATE XML
23:26 mtompset Why did you program wahanui to say that, pianohacker?
23:27 pianohacker because I hate XML :) (it is of course more nuanced than that, but wahanui isn't good at nuance)
23:27 pianohacker and with that, I'm gonna skedaddle
23:27 pianohacker bye all
23:27 dcook see ya pianohacker
23:27 mtompset bye? But you left me hanging. :P
23:27 mtompset What's the nuance? :P
23:27 pianohacker mtompset: ask me again tomorrow :) It's also in the logs somewhere
23:27 mtompset Greetings, dcook. :)
23:28 BobB joined #koha
23:28 wizzyrea the superlibrarian really ought to be able to edit all lists regardless of owner.
23:28 wizzyrea edit/delete
23:28 wizzyrea there may be a bug about that somewhere.
23:28 wizzyrea but I just felt the need to rant.
23:32 dcook wizzyrea: I couldn't agree more.
23:32 dcook I think I've had that same rant.
23:32 dcook hey, mtompset :)
23:33 wizzyrea and even better, apparently there was a bug at some point that set the owners to NULL, so there are lists existent that cannot be edited by anyone?!
23:33 mtompset woo hoo!
23:33 mtompset That was a sarcastic woo hoo. ;)
23:34 dcook Hmm, I think that bug is still alive and well in 3.8.0
23:34 dcook I recently had to change the owner of a list in the DB because the owner had been deleted and thus the owner nullified
23:34 wizzyrea oh that must be what happened here
23:35 dcook I'd sign off a patch that made superlibrarians overlords of lists
23:35 dcook bug 9833
23:35 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9833 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, matthias.meusburger, Failed QA , New virtual shelves/lists permissions
23:36 dcook I suppose if there were a "manage_shelves" permission...the default would be for the superlibrarian to have that permission (or not need it)
23:37 wizzyrea oh it's in fail qa that doesn't seem right
23:39 dcook That is a bit confusing...I can't tell if Marcel passed or failed it based on the comments..
23:39 dcook Although it does look like he's asking for some changes?
23:39 wizzyrea then he attached a patch...
23:40 dcook Yeah, I'm confused by that
23:40 wizzyrea but it looks like it's the same?
23:40 * wizzyrea looks more
23:41 dcook I think it might be the same, but I'm not sure
23:45 logbot joined #koha
23:45 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the Koha IRC channel. The next general meeting is 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC. Please use for long pastes
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