IRC log for #koha, 2013-06-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 trea that's a safe bet.
00:00 eythian[…]s-a-collection-of <-- wizzyrea
00:00 mtj haaay, i just discovered vim's :retab thingy - very handy for Koha
00:01 jcamins
00:01 wizzyrea[…]peccharmarc8.html
00:02 wizzyrea ok #2 - it's a jiggly bouncy ball that kids just adore.
00:02 wizzyrea that's not a weird toy.
00:03 cjh man #4 is awesome!
00:10 trea "shoots fragmentation bomb"
00:10 trea something every child needs
00:11 dac joined #koha
00:14 * wizzyrea shudders
00:15 * cjh knows what mini-trea is getting for xmas....
00:16 BobB joined #koha
00:20 mtj how do people feel about having a general tab/whitespace tidy-up, early in this release cycle?
00:21 eythian mtj: it screws with history if you're not careful
00:22 mtj …or at least identifing which are the worst files, for crufty whitespace
00:24 mtj eythian, i didnt know that specifically - tho i guessed it would introduce some merge problems with older patches
00:24 eythian it may also do that.
00:27 mtj i'm starting to see new patches failing QA, that have cut/pasted existing glitchy lines :/
00:28 jcamins Are you sure that's not a good thing?
00:28 eythian I think it is a good thing
00:28 eythian you should clean up the stuff you're working on, at the very least.
00:28 mtj the failing is a great thing!
00:29 mtj …the manually tidying up the failing lines is a tedious pain
00:29 eythian you select the stuff you modified and run it through perltidy
00:29 rangi many many many more patches will fail if you do a mass change
00:30 rangi and yep, its easy with vim
00:30 rangi select a bit and perltidy it
00:30 jcamins F6 FTW!
00:31 eythian I have it on the same button :)
00:34 mtj yeah, i do the same
00:35 rangi hmm
00:35 rangi[…]ug.cgi?id=8868#c7
00:35 huginn` Bug 8868: enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Failed QA , ILS-DI: CancelHold needs to take a reserve_id
00:35 rangi too harsh?
00:37 jcamins eems fair.
00:37 jcamins *Seems
00:37 rangi cool
00:39 mtj haay ftw, i have global/selectable whitespace stripper function() in vim
00:40 mtj ...which works well for templates files
00:40 mtj EOL whitespace stripper, and tab replacer
00:41 mtj ^^ my other pet-peeve :)
00:45 rangi mine is not enough sign offs :)
00:45 * rangi cracks the whip
00:45 rangi more work, less talk!! :-)
00:46 mtj yes sir!
00:50 * dcook giggles
00:50 dcook Well, I'm not sure I'm actually capable of giggling, but...the sentiment is there nonetheless
00:51 dcook papa++
00:52 papa eh, what have I done now?
00:52 rangi lots of signoffs
00:52 papa ah that :)
00:52 dcook In 5 days :)
00:52 papa you mean in 2
00:53 dcook Probably
00:53 dcook Whoa...
00:53 papa but I was cheating a bit, I picked the easy ones
00:53 dcook I like the idea of marcflavour being called MarcFormat instead, but...that's a lot of testing...
00:53 dcook Fair enough
00:54 dcook I barely have time for the easy ones at the moment :S
00:54 papa Like when it had MARC in it, i'd skip immediately :)
00:54 * dcook looks balefully at the project that never seems to end...
00:54 dcook hehe
00:55 dcook To be honest, I'm half-tempted to install a UNIMARC system just to sign off some of those patches
00:56 jcamins I don't think I like MarcFormat.
00:56 dcook Oh...just noticed jcamins's offline circ patch..
00:56 dcook No?
00:56 wahanui[…]33/collapsing.gif
00:57 jcamins Technically UNIMARC has two formats, one of which is the same as the MARC21 format.
00:57 dcook O_o
00:57 jcamins The other one being for authorities, and people who are drunk.
00:57 dcook o_O
00:58 rangi :)\
00:58 rangi a lot of library standards feel like they were designed when people were drunk
00:58 eythian your chin is falling off, rangi
00:58 rangi too much drink eythian
00:59 eythian designing library standards, are you?
01:08 jcamins lol
01:12 wizzyrea unimarc smells of wine.
01:12 rangi i find unimarc more sane than marc21 actually
01:13 rangi but then again, i find a pile of mud more sane than marc21
01:14 eythian wahanui: library patrons is <reply>patrons can be found here:
01:14 wahanui OK, eythian.
01:15 dcook *facepalm*
01:16 dcook eythian: I think my happiness points just dropped :(
01:16 dcook Evil humans...
01:16 eythian wahanui: facepalm is <reply>http://buikitty.files.wordpres[…]120202-094434.jpg
01:16 wahanui OK, eythian.
01:17 dcook They might be back up now ^_^
01:17 dcook Also, you do have a link for everything
01:17 * dcook almost wonders if there is a link for that...
01:17 eythian heh
01:22 rangi jcamins: what do you think of bug 9728
01:22 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9728 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Signed Off , XISBN use simple search instead of SQL
01:22 rangi as a general idea (not the code quality or anything)
01:32 jcamins rangi: I think it's a good idea generally.
01:33 rangi cool
01:33 rangi ill qa it then :)
01:54 jcamins I have to say the Schwartzian transform may be the most cryptic pieces of code I've ever seen.
01:54 jcamins I'm confused by the => bits in it.
01:55 eythian there are no => bits in it
01:56 pastebot "jcamins" at pasted "Schwartzian transform" (13 lines) at
01:56 jcamins Really?
01:56 wahanui Really is off now
01:56 jcamins ^^ that's the version I'm looking at.
01:58 eythian if it turned more of the parts into blocks, the => could go away
01:58 eythian (keeping in mind that => eq ,
01:58 eythian )
02:00 jcamins Oh, so basically => is like an implied } in this case?
02:01 eythian no, it's just a comma
02:01 jcamins Right, but I could convert those into maps using {} and no =>?
02:02 eythian it's like map chr, @list is the same as map chr => @list
02:02 eythian well, you'd be converting the expression into a block
02:02 eythian so that map doesn't require the comma
02:03 jcamins Okay, now I understand.
02:03 cjh oh wow schwartzian in the wild
02:04 jcamins I'm not sure it's actually necessary in this instance.
02:04 jcamins Which is good, because I'm not convinced it's not gratuitous obfuscation.
02:07 jcamins I'm all for efficient algorithms, but how often are you going to deduplicate an authority file?
02:07 rangi exactly
02:08 rangi theres a whole thing about premature optimisation
02:08 rangi
02:08 jcamins Now I just need to find a readable way to write this.
02:08 eythian[…]ch-and-given-when
02:08 rangi eythian has the book on his shelf :)
02:09 jcamins What's Smartmatch?
02:10 cjh a relatively new perl operator ~~
02:10 eythian it's comparison using ~~
02:10 eythian it's only about 10 years old or so
02:10 cjh heh
02:11 jcamins Ah.
02:11 jcamins ~~
02:11 jcamins I've seen that a few times.
02:12 jcamins Actually, I just figured out my issue with the Schwartzian transform.
02:12 jcamins It's a good algorithm to use for this, but it doesn't need to be all on one line.
02:12 jcamins Temporary variables are okay.
02:12 eythian yeah
02:13 eythian only three uses of ~~ in koha
02:15 eythian
02:16 cjh the 3rd movie \o/
02:29 jcamins Okay, question... if I am going to call one of two routines repeatedly, is it bad for me to assign a reference to that routine to a variable and use $GetRecord->($recordid)?
02:30 jcamins $authorities ? GetAuthority($recordid) : GetBiblio($recordid) offends me, as does expanding that into a proper if.
02:32 eythian I think it's fine to do that
02:32 jcamins Thanks.
02:33 wizzyrea[…]ild-thi-511210553
02:33 eythian wahanui: captain cook is climbing a mountain
02:33 wahanui OK, eythian.
02:33 eythian oh that's totally wrong
02:34 wizzyrea lol
02:34 eythian wahanui: forget captain cook
02:34 wahanui eythian: I forgot captain cook
02:34 wizzyrea captain kirk is climbing a mountain
02:34 wahanui Why is he climbing a mountain?
02:34 eythian much more like it
02:34 cjh lol
02:34 eythian post-curry brain
02:35 dcook Mmm curry wednesday
02:36 dcook I might have to rustle myself up some curry...
02:37 jcamins wtf?
02:37 jcamins The ellipsis statement?
02:37 jcamins That's...
02:37 jcamins weird.
02:39 eythian I can see the use though
02:40 cjh oh wow I have never seen that, really neat.
02:41 jcamins Okay, sanity check: scalar @weights = 5 if @weights = ( 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 )?
02:41 eythian yeah
02:42 jcamins Thanks.
02:44 jcamins ...
02:44 jcamins The Schwartzian transform has melted my brain.
02:45 jcamins I've forgotten how to do a for loop.
02:45 eythian map { something } @list; of course
02:49 jcamins Okay, this is confusing.
02:50 jcamins[…]651;hb=HEAD#l1384
02:50 jcamins If I pass undef as the second and fourth arguments, shouldn't that return without doing anything?
02:51 jcamins Or, rather, die completely.
02:51 jcamins Since undef->fields() is undefined.
02:51 eythian I'd expect it to throw a warn
02:51 eythian I don't think it'd return, because the ==0 check will end up as if undef==0 which is false
02:52 jcamins But undef->fields() won't cause a Perl error?
02:52 * jcamins will find out.
02:53 jcamins Can't call method "fields" on an undefined value at -e line 1.
02:53 eythian I don't think it'd cause it to die
02:53 eythian yeah, but that's probably just a warn
02:53 jcamins Hm.
02:53 eythian I might be wrong though
02:53 eythian not totally sure
02:54 jcamins No, I think you're right.
02:54 jcamins I mean, I think you should be wrong, but I think empirically I have evidence that you are rightlz
02:55 cjh perl -e "undef->foo(); print 'made it';" # doesnt print made it
02:57 jcamins Is true greater than false in Perl?
02:57 * jcamins will assign numeric values.
02:57 jcamins Probably safer that way.
02:59 eythian true is non-zero, non-empty
03:00 jcamins What I'm not sure of is whether ('a' eq 'a') > ('a' eq 'b')
03:00 cjh perl -e "print 'yeap' if ((1==1)>(1==0))"
03:00 eythian that'd be true
03:00 eythian because the first would be '1', the second '0'
03:01 cjh perl -e "print 'OH GOD' if ((1==1)<(1==0))"
03:01 eythian wahanui: the singularity is
03:01 wahanui OK, eythian.
03:02 cjh that actually exists :o[…]nr130130sz16e.jsp
03:04 eythian actually, my camera has pet mode in it too I think. But it's mostly to make the photo look nicer I expect.
03:04 eythian It does also have a "take a photo when everyone is smiling" function.
03:05 wizzyrea ...cameras do that?
03:05 wizzyrea i haven't had a proper camera in a while :P
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03:06 cjh wb.
03:06 eythian I think it even has a smile-graph, so you can wait for it to reach a particular rictus and take the photo then
03:06 eythian mostly I just leave it on the "be pretty smart and do what I want" mode.
03:31 jcamins Cool. New and spectacularly revised deduper works.
03:32 jcamins And it is, if I may say, a super deduper.
03:32 jcamins :D
03:32 * wizzyrea giggles
03:32 wizzyrea ok that was funny
03:32 mtj super dooper deduper?
03:32 wizzyrea and  not just because I've been up since 2am
03:32 jcamins I know, right?
03:32 jcamins lol
03:32 jcamins That was an actual good joke from me.
03:33 wizzyrea indeed!
03:33 * jcamins checks to see if armaggedon is upon us.
03:33 wizzyrea @quote add <jcamins> Cool. New and spectacularly revised deduper works. And it is, if I may say, a super deduper.
03:33 huginn` wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #256 added.
03:33 wizzyrea oh yeahhhhh
03:33 jcamins What's our stance on POD?
03:34 wizzyrea we like it?
03:34 jcamins Do we really put it at the end because it's "faster"?
03:34 wizzyrea oh. that. pass.
03:34 eythian that doesn't actually make sense to me
03:34 jcamins I would like to put my POD inline because then it is easy to understand what the POD is talking about.
03:34 jcamins (IMO)
03:34 jcamins For all my personal projects, that's the way I do it.
03:35 eythian perl has to scan the whole file anyway, in case you have more stuff after the POD at the end
03:35 eythian I guess unless you finish with __END__
03:35 eythian or whatever it is
03:35 eythian but yeah, inline is better I think
04:00 gmcharlt agreed, inline
04:04 jcamins Good, because that's what I did.
04:14 jcamins And now that I have a nifty new record deduplicator, I am getting some sleep.
04:14 jcamins Good night, #koha.
04:15 dcook night, jcamins
04:15 eythian later
04:18 dcook mtj++
04:18 dcook Thanks for rebasing that 2nd patch for 10096
04:19 * dcook goes off to grab a late lunch...
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04:36 eythian[…]posts/EfmdR6VWvRM <-- cjh
04:37 cjh eythian: I quite like the title[…]s-of-dying-stars/
04:40 cjh TIL: organic tyrian purple pigment can be made from the snot of the Murex snail
04:46 eythian and that's why toga praetextae were worn by people of rank.
04:47 eythian Did you skip out of your classical education, huh?
05:24 eythian @wunder nzwn
05:24 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (5:00 PM NZST on June 05, 2013). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Rising).
05:25 eythian It seems to be missing the 50-70kph wind
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06:37 reiveune hello
06:37 wahanui hi, reiveune
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06:45 christophe_c hello #koha
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06:56 drojf good morning #koha
06:56 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
06:56 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 15.5°C (8:42 AM CEST on June 05, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
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07:13 Joubu hello #koha
07:13 kf hi Joubu
07:13 kf :)
07:13 kf and hi #koha!
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07:14 gaetan_B hello
07:16 kf hi gaetan_B
07:17 gaetan_B hey kf :) alles klar ?
07:17 kf viel zu tun, aber ja ;)
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08:50 samueld hi everybody
08:55 rangi is fridolyn catching up on mail :)
08:57 kf looks like it :)
08:57 kf hi samueld
08:57 rangi hi samueld
08:57 samueld hi kf & rangi
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12:19 oleonard Hi #koha
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12:28 oleonard Hi kf
12:29 kf hi oleonard
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12:56 tomascohen mornin #koha
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13:05 Joubu bz is down ?
13:05 oleonard No for me Joubu
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13:06 Joubu oleonard: ok ta
13:06 Joubu oleonard: ok thanks, weird!
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13:09 Joubu back! :)
13:09 tcohen hi Joubu
13:10 Joubu hi tcohen
13:12 oleonard Why does the course reserves "add item" process ask if you want to change the item type, collection code, etc?
13:12 oleonard Libraries temporarily or permanently change those details when adding them to course reserves?
13:13 jcamins Yes.
13:13 jcamins You'd have course reserves stored in a different part of the library with different loan rules.
13:13 tcohen it makes sense oleonard, as item type is the means to change the circ rules for it
13:14 oleonard All new to me, thanks
13:15 oleonard Does it automatically revert the changes?
13:15 oleonard ...when an item is removed?
13:15 kf oleonard: I think the use case here would be to mark those items temporarily for reference or only allow short loans
13:15 kf so all students of a course get a hcance to do their homework with that important book
13:16 jcamins oleonard: I'd think that the entire point of the course reserves module would be  that it would be automatically reset, but... I don't actually know.
13:16 kf tcohen: around?
13:17 kf oleonard: i hope it does, like jcamins said but i haven't tested it yet :(
13:18 tcohen here
13:18 kf @later tell tcohen - could you take a look at bug 9824? The follow ups fix the labels a bit and woudl be nice to have in 3.12
13:18 huginn` kf: The operation succeeded.
13:18 kf oh sory :)
13:19 tcohen hi kf
13:24 nengard does Koha not have a deleted authorities table?
13:24 nengard I'm not seeing one
13:25 oleonard How dare you consider deleting an authority nengard!
13:25 nengard unused authorities goofy boy :)
13:25 nengard we have deleted bibs and deleted items
13:25 nengard how dare you delete those!!
13:25 nengard :)
13:26 jcamins nengard: it does not, no.
13:27 kf sounds like not a bad idea to me
13:27 nengard bug 10417
13:27 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10417 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , keep deleted authorities
13:27 nengard :)
13:27 kf 10417 already... wow
13:28 jcamins Now if only someone were interested in sponsoring that sort of development, eh?
13:28 oleonard The same deep pockets who are sponsoring the LTS version?
13:29 jcamins oleonard++ # comedy at its best
13:29 oleonard jcamins and kf: removing a changed item from a course reverts the changes you make when adding it
13:29 kf yay :)
13:29 jcamins Hooray!
13:29 kf thx for testing oleonard :)
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13:39 kf oleonard++
13:39 kf for his usual awesomeness
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14:03 druthb oleonard++
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14:05 oleonard Thanks druthb :)
14:24 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8584: : Add a DAYS parameter for email purges. <[…]5248df03dd6ec8224> / Bug 7892: Open link to imported record in new tab <[…]75530bbec1f11b9e5> / Bug 10015 - UniqueItemFields could have link to database documentation <http://git.koha
14:26 gmcharlt @quote random
14:26 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #156: "druthb: I would feed wahanui a botsnack of windows 8 engineers, but they're full of fluff and not very filling. trea: like marshmallow peeps, with clip on ties." (added by wizzyrea at 02:09 PM, September 22, 2011)
14:26 * druthb chuckles
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14:34 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 766: remove CGI::scrolling_list from <[…]d4640fe175d739328> / Bug 10249: Fix untranslatable strings in OPAC detail page <[…]ae37a6c07cad0b1c7>
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15:12 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
15:12 druthb Hi, mtompset!
15:12 mtompset Greetings, druthb.
15:12 mtompset I'm still fighting the "How do sessions work?" problem in Koha.
15:13 mtompset Because just when I think I have a piece of code that should limp into working and should never see the light of day... it doesn't set the session up like I expect. :(
15:16 tcohen hi mtompset
15:16 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
15:17 jcamins mtompset: ah, yep. I see your problem. It's the fourth word in your question.
15:18 mtompset Are you stating that sessions is the wrong word, or that you agree sessions are a big pain?
15:18 jcamins No, I'm saying that "work" is overly strong. :P
15:18 mtompset fine, function? :P
15:19 pianohacker they're balanced on the precipice of "too crappy to like, not crappy enough to fix"
15:21 mtompset All I want is to get a bunch of values pushed into the DB nicely.
15:22 mtompset So that the code doesn't think the session is timedout and goes into an infinite loop of click-me to loop bliss.
15:23 * druthb drags around the conference center One More Day
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15:26 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8600: (followup) remove debug logging statement <[…]1568cc4da51903a25> / Bug 8600: can now remove search input fields in OPAC advanced search form <[…]edbfa5e231e1e19ab>
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15:28 mtompset session->flush!
15:28 mtompset I think that might be it.
15:28 mtompset DUH!
15:30 mtompset Nope. :(
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15:46 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 9549: Show local cover images in the OPAC shelf browser <[…]180e30e5e99d00032>
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16:09 oleonard "universal web share icon?" Is that really a thing?[…]media/3137787741/
16:10 * oleonard wonders how recognizable that really is
16:10 jcamins Never seen it before.
16:10 jcamins Apparently it's the logo of ShareThis(R).
16:11 * pianohacker discounts less and less every day that the original authors of the admin interface were on crack
16:11 rhcl looks like freenode just died
16:12 rhcl and now it's back
16:12 jcamins rhcl: they've been netsplitting like crazy.
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16:12 rhcl yea, saw that yesterday, and they sent out a tech msg too
16:12 gmcharlt I get the impression they've been subject to an unusually high number of DOS attacks recently
16:12 rhcl it's unusual to see the actual server die, however
16:12 * oleonard would prefer that the "share" button have a nice style:
16:13 * oleonard is testing Bug 9032
16:13 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9032 enhancement, P5 - low, ---,, Needs Signoff , Share a list (part 1: send the invitation)
16:13 gmcharlt oleonard: I've seen it before ... but universal?  not sure about that
16:15 * gmcharlt doesn't have any suggestions for a more universal option, though
16:15 gmcharlt nor any objections to using that icon
16:16 oleonard Hm, the Tango Desktop Project seems to be dead
16:25 gaetan_B bye
16:30 tcohen on android everything related to the action of "sharing" has that icon
16:31 jcamins tcohen: really? Huh.
16:31 jcamins I have an android phone and never noticed it.
16:31 * jcamins goes looking for the phone.
16:32 tcohen or an app from play, or something from flipboard
16:33 reiveune bye
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17:05 tcohen gmcharlt: I think you found a previous bug, as I copied what was already done in (bug 9735)
17:05 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9735 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Failed QA , Choose language using URL parameters in any page
17:05 gmcharlt tcohen: I don't think it's a bug, actually, but only by accident
17:06 gmcharlt i.e., will accept either a scalar (for a single cookie) or a flat arrayref
17:06 tcohen see
17:07 gmcharlt right, but that's the *only* spot that does it
17:07 gmcharlt at least in C4::aUTH
17:09 gmcharlt to clarify -- I do think that when the OPAC search history patch was written, it should have explicitly iniitaliized an array(ref) to keep the list of cookies
17:09 tcohen I should push it then
17:10 gmcharlt rather than doing the $cookie = [$cookie, $newcookie] form
17:10 gmcharlt tcohen: push what?
17:10 tcohen the new languagecookie into the cookie array
17:10 gmcharlt ah, right
17:10 gmcharlt (although at that point in the code, $cookie could either be a scalar *or* a listref)
17:11 gmcharlt so you'd either have to test for both cases, or do a bit of cleanup
17:17 tcohen gmcharlt: the cookie method returns an arrayref?
17:17 tcohen listref
17:18 gmcharlt tcohen: $cgi->cookie('foo') just returns a scalar
17:21 jcamins tcohen: Esta tierra es mia... does that refer to the planet or a garden (for example)?
17:21 tcohen maybe both, I suggest the second
17:22 jcamins Thanks.
17:22 tcohen what are u reading jcamins ?
17:22 jcamins In English the second made sense, but I wanted to check that it would in Spanish too. :)
17:22 jcamins Film posters!
17:23 jcamins This is a Russian poster for an Argentinian film.
17:23 gmcharlt jcamins: so we don't have to recognize you as the Planetary Emporer just yet? ;)
17:23 jcamins gmcharlt: hmmm... I guess not yet.
17:23 tcohen "land"
17:24 rgoldman joined #koha
17:24 tcohen I'd translate as 'land'
17:25 rgoldman are there 3rd party consultants who'll import athena records to a new koha instance - cataloged somewhere?
17:25 Brooke joined #koha
17:25 Brooke 0/
17:25 jcamins support?
17:25 wahanui support is found at
17:25 jcamins support vendors?
17:26 jcamins paid support?
17:26 wahanui please see for a list of paid Koha support vendors.
17:26 rgoldman ty
17:26 jcamins ^^ there is an incomplete list of Koha support vendors.
17:26 Brooke Life support?
17:26 wahanui Life support is, like, See Brooke for AED/CPR FPR
17:26 gmcharlt heh
17:27 rgoldman ok. any warning about using debian install and repo for ubuntu lts?
17:27 jcamins rgoldman: just that you should absolutely be using packages and not the tgz.
17:28 jcamins They'll work absolutely fine.
17:28 rgoldman TY jcamins. all set then.
17:29 jcamins Oh, there's a meeting in a half hour?
17:30 oleonard Another unreminded meeting.
17:30 drojf you got half an hour to send a reminder :P
17:34 oleonard What was the big deal we didn't vote on last time because no one was around?
17:34 gmcharlt version numbers?
17:35 jcamins Yeah.
17:35 jcamins And please note I am not presenting the proposal.
17:35 jcamins I put it on the stupid agenda because people seemed to think it mattered at all.
17:35 jcamins (the agenda was not stupid prior to its addition, of course)
17:36 * oleonard can tell jcamins is excited about the whole idea
17:36 jcamins lol
17:36 * gmcharlt thinks that folks who are actively advocating for a position, or for discussion or votes, should be the ones to put things on the agenda
17:36 jcamins Right.
17:36 tcohen what's the meeting about?
17:36 gmcharlt if a given idea doesn't have a champion who is invested enough to at least do that, perhaps it doesn't belong
17:36 jcamins gmcharlt: if I hadn't been RM, I would've just unsubscribed from koha-devel.
17:37 jcamins Since I was RM, I said "I'll put it on the agenda, now stop bothering me."
17:37 gmcharlt tcohen: just a general one
17:37 gmcharlt agenda at[…]ting,_5_June_2013
17:38 tcohen we should ask badPaul to make the proposal
17:38 jcamins His time is too valuable.
17:39 tcohen the only thing I care and no other cares is the debian packages naming
17:39 tcohen :-P
17:41 tcohen gmcharlt: would flaten an listref containing only one cookie? (looking for the simplest way of handling this)
17:42 gmcharlt tcohen: yes, that woudl work as far as is concerned
17:42 gmcharlt one caveat: there is likely some random code scattered throughout that tries to do stuff with the $cookie returned by get_template_and_user
17:43 gmcharlt hmm
17:43 tcohen I'll add a check and return the scalar then
17:44 tcohen that's source for other troubles, right?
17:45 gmcharlt potentially, yes
17:46 * tcohen meant already present potential problems
17:47 gmcharlt tcohen: yeah, I have a nasty feeling that I've opened up a mare's nest underneath you
17:47 gmcharlt sorry about  that
17:48 * Brooke gets the horsemeat grinder out...
17:48 tcohen I'll provide a followup for this specific bug, and do some research through the code
17:49 gmcharlt great
17:49 phred joined #koha
17:49 tcohen this looks ugly, right?: ref($cookie) eq 'ARRAY'
17:49 jcamins Usually one doesn't use parentheses with ref.
17:50 gmcharlt other than the parentheses, while it may be ugly, it's canonical ugliness ;)
17:51 * Brooke is non canonically appealing.
17:51 * mtompset continues to bash his brains against the sessionID cookie authentication madness he is tinkering with.
17:52 pianohacker 'sub isarrayref { eval { @{ shift } }; return $@ }'
17:52 gmcharlt heh
17:53 mtompset Umm... why that ugly function... isn't there a ref($shift) eq 'ARRAY' type check?
17:53 jcamins lol
17:53 pianohacker curses, !$@
17:53 pianohacker mtompset: yes, absolutely
17:53 phred joined #koha
17:53 pianohacker this gets you more perl hacker points though
17:53 jcamins pianohacker++ # "curses, !$@" may be the greatest line ever
17:53 tcohen pianohacker++
17:54 gmcharlt Tim Toady -- the game whereby you can faintly disturb any YAPH on a whim
17:54 pianohacker hehe
17:55 pianohacker when your code looks like Popeye dialog, you're having a Perl kind of day
17:55 nancyk joined #koha
17:56 mduncan joined #koha
17:58 JDatTeTakere joined #koha
17:59 davidnind joined #koha
18:00 Brooke uguuguguguug
18:01 Brooke ooooh Kiwis
18:01 JDatTeTakere Sleepy Kiwis. Only 6am.
18:01 Brooke that's why I'm ooohing and ahhing ;)
18:02 tcohen gmcharlt: would you take a look at the followup?
18:03 gmcharlt sure
18:03 JDatTeTakere Too cold to get up and make coffee in Levin, NZ
18:04 Brooke you should get a Yank What Does. I've heard they come cheap in the 'Nua
18:04 JDatTeTakere A Yank what does?
18:05 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013
18:05 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jun  5 18:05:20 2013 UTC.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at
18:05 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:05 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:05 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'koha_general_meeting__5_june_2013'
18:05 gmcharlt #info agenda is[…]ting,_5_June_2013
18:05 gmcharlt #topic Introductions
18:05 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:05 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:05 John_C joined #koha
18:06 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software, 3.14 RM
18:06 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:06 nancyk #info nancyk  Washoe County Library System KohaCon13 Chair
18:06 tcohen #info Tomás Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Córdoba, Argentina
18:06 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
18:06 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
18:06 JDatTeTakere info#Joanne Dillon (JD) at TeTakere, Levin, NZ
18:06 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, and (past) RM for 3.12
18:06 mduncan #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler, Muntz Library
18:06 pianohacker #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions
18:07 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin
18:07 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
18:08 gmcharlt ko
18:08 cait joined #koha
18:08 gmcharlt ok
18:08 gmcharlt #topic Announcements
18:08 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:08 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
18:08 gmcharlt two minutes for folks to chime in with Koha-related annoucnements
18:09 jcamins #info 3.12.0 was released on May 19
18:09 edveal #info Ed Veal, ByWater
18:09 cait jcamins++ :)
18:10 gmcharlt jcamins++
18:10 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.8
18:10 Topic for #koha is now Update on Koha 3.8 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:11 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett, Canada
18:11 gmcharlt #info Koha 3.8.13 was released on 2013-05-23
18:11 Brooke thanks folks that contributed we <3 you
18:11 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library (I'm just here to watch the big dogs)
18:12 gmcharlt 3.8.13 was rangi's last release as 3.8 RMaint
18:12 gmcharlt rangi++
18:12 tcohen UNC <3 3.8.x and rangis' work
18:12 tcohen rangi++
18:12 cait rangi++ :)
18:12 gmcharlt cjh is now the current 3.8 RMaint
18:13 gmcharlt looks like his nick is idling, so I'll move on
18:13 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.10
18:13 Topic for #koha is now Update on Koha 3.10 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:13 gmcharlt #info Koha 3.10.6 was released on 2013-05-23
18:14 gmcharlt 3.10.6 was rangi's last release as 3.10 RMaint
18:14 gmcharlt rangi++ # I'm sensing a pattern here
18:14 cait rangi++ :) no surprise
18:14 gmcharlt and bgkriegel is the current RMaint for 3.10
18:15 gmcharlt and is not here, so...
18:15 mtompset rangi++
18:15 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.12
18:15 Topic for #koha is now Update on Koha 3.12 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:15 tcohen wait
18:15 gmcharlt hmm?
18:15 tcohen bug 10367 was pushed by eythian during packages build
18:15 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10367 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Allow packages to work on debian wheezy
18:15 tcohen post-release
18:16 tcohen for both 3.10 and 3.12
18:16 tcohen to support debian wheezy
18:16 tcohen just wanted to note that
18:17 gmcharlt #info 3.12.0 was released on 2013-05-19
18:17 gmcharlt jcamins: any parting comments?
18:17 jcamins I don't think so.
18:17 jcamins I think we came together to produce a nice, stable release.
18:17 jcamins And, well done all.
18:17 tcohen jcamins++
18:17 gmcharlt jcamins++
18:17 oleonard all++
18:18 cait jcamins++ :)
18:18 gmcharlt tcohen: any comments regarding the upcoming 3.12.1?
18:18 mtompset nice PDF release notes. :)
18:18 mtompset jcamins++
18:19 bag #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater
18:19 tcohen comments now
18:19 tcohen sorry
18:19 gmcharlt no problem
18:19 tcohen I want to say I'll do my best
18:19 gmcharlt moving on
18:19 gmcharlt #topic Update on Koha 3.14
18:19 Topic for #koha is now Update on Koha 3.14 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:20 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt has started pushing patches
18:20 cait yay!
18:20 drojf are we there yet?
18:20 gmcharlt #info biggest one so far is one implementing a course reserves feature
18:21 gmcharlt #info We need more folks testing and signing off on patches
18:21 * cait agrees with gmcharlt
18:22 cait and please if you can run the test suite
18:22 cait and take a look at the coding guidelines :)
18:22 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will be starting conversations with the folks who thus far have expressed interest in being module maintainers
18:23 gmcharlt any questions?
18:23 tcohen how many module mantainers have postulated?
18:23 gmcharlt I think two, maybe three people have expressed interest
18:24 cait could you summarize quickly what the task of the module maintainers will be?
18:24 nengard left #koha
18:24 gmcharlt yes
18:24 gmcharlt a module maintainer would be somebody who is expert in a module and who takes responsibility for maintaining a tree of vetted patches related to that module
18:25 gmcharlt and (ideally) who also takes some responsibility for wrangling bugs related to that module
18:25 gmcharlt as well as doing QA for that module
18:25 oleonard "maintaining a tree of vetted patches?"
18:25 gmcharlt my idea is ultimately that the RM would be able to start pulling branches from the module maintainer's trees
18:25 cait same question here
18:26 gmcharlt rather than focusing on each and every bug that passes QA
18:26 tcohen a benevolent dictator
18:26 gmcharlt and even longer-term goal, depending on how things work out, is that module maintainers would get the ability to push directly to master for patches related to their modules
18:27 pianohacker gmcharlt: linux-ish setup?
18:27 gmcharlt pianohacker: yes
18:27 Brooke gmcharlt++
18:27 pianohacker sounds like a good plan
18:28 gmcharlt a good experiment, I hope, at least
18:28 tcohen gmcharlt++
18:29 pianohacker gmcharlt: is there any listing/volunteer page for module maintainers?
18:29 gmcharlt pianohacker: not yet; I'll need to trawl through the list archives
18:29 gmcharlt to set one up
18:29 gmcharlt folks who are intersted can also contact me directly, of course
18:29 pianohacker okay, just curious
18:30 gmcharlt any other questions regarding 3.14?
18:31 tcohen no quesitons here
18:31 gmcharlt ok, moving on
18:31 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2013
18:31 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 2013 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:31 nancyk Koha reservation page has been fixed, thanks to Liz
18:32 nancyk Call for sponsors is going out later today, as are presentation confirmations
18:32 cait nancyk++
18:32 nancyk Digital flier inviting people to the conference will be out next week
18:32 nancyk Anyone have any questions or suggestions?
18:33 gmcharlt #info Koha reservation page has been fixed, thanks to Liz;  Call for sponsors is going out later today, as are presentation confirmations; Digital flier inviting people to the conference will be out next week;
18:33 thd To whom is the digital flier being sent?
18:33 cait nancyk: thx for all your work, really looking forward to kohacon :)
18:34 nancyk thanks
18:34 nancyk Fliers will go to library groups, and anywhere I can get them
18:34 tcohen nancyk: how is the room reservation count going? did we reach the goal?
18:34 nancyk Things are moving along very well
18:35 nancyk We have 64 registered, but not at the hotel yet
18:35 nancyk Some are waiting for their fiscal year to turn over
18:35 nancyk that's all for now
18:36 gmcharlt nancyk++
18:36 cait nancyk++
18:36 tcohen nancyk++
18:36 thd nancyk: What address can be used to confirm registrations?
18:37 nancyk I am sending them out personally, so everyone should have one as of today.  Use my email for probs
18:37 nancyk
18:37 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2014
18:37 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 2014 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:38 gmcharlt on the agenda there's a question about whether we've sent out a call for potential host sites
18:38 gmcharlt I don't think it has, so who wants to volunteer to put out a call for proposals to host KohaCon in 2014?
18:40 drojf i can do that. probably not today but in the next days#
18:40 gmcharlt #action drojf will put out a call for proposals to host KohaCon in 2014
18:40 cait drojf++
18:40 gmcharlt moving on
18:40 gmcharlt #topic Version numbering
18:40 Topic for #koha is now Version numbering (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:41 gmcharlt does anybody wish to adopt this agenda item?
18:42 pianohacker everyone has an opinion, nobody wants to take responsibility for starting the discussion
18:42 thd I just want the question to be clear.
18:42 oleonard[…]ting,_5_June_2013
18:42 tcohen joined #koha
18:43 oleonard If no one wants to raise the issue and advocate the position I suggest we move on.
18:43 thd pianohacker: The discussion has been had at more length than many thought worthwhile.
18:43 pianohacker thd: Yeah, that was my understanding. Bikeshedded
18:43 cait so can we move on? :)
18:43 pianohacker yup, vote to move on
18:44 gmcharlt admittedly, this only delays the question -- but I suggest that version number questions be restricted to the period when roles for the next release are being considered
18:44 thd oleonard: If we move on then how has the issue been settled or has the issue been dropped?
18:44 oleonard thd: With no one here to advocate for a change there is no reason to discuss it
18:45 drojf thd: put it on the agenda for another meeting and it is back. i guess
18:45 pianohacker so dropped, with the release after pi continuing the trend and being 3.16
18:45 cait we are going to have 3.14 (codename pi)
18:45 jcamins pianohacker: or, more precisely, dropped and no decision made. There has been no solid proposal, just a lot of paint.
18:45 gmcharlt pianohacker: I'd say the question is dropped for now, with the question of how to number the next release after 3.14 to be decided during the election period
18:46 pianohacker gmcharlt: Sounds good, let's throw that on the minutes
18:46 tcohen +1 # gmcharlt's proposal
18:46 cait +1
18:46 thd oleonard: As posted on the wiki agenda the issue was only to vote on a question which had already been discussed at length already on the mailing list.
18:47 oleonard +1 # gmcharlt's proposal
18:47 thd +1 # gmcharlt postponing the dullest question ever
18:47 gmcharlt #agreed Any decision on the question of how to number the version of Koha following 3.14 is deferred to the project role election period
18:49 gmcharlt #topic Action items from the 7 May 2013 meeting
18:49 Topic for #koha is now Action items from the 7 May 2013 meeting (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:49 gmcharlt #info ifrst action item is Test all the things!
18:49 gmcharlt so, have all the things been tested?
18:49 gmcharlt no?
18:49 wahanui
18:49 * cait reports that more testing is needed
18:49 gmcharlt cait++
18:50 cait Test all the things!
18:50 tcohen test coverage should be improved
18:51 gmcharlt there was also an action item for BobB to test reserves
18:51 gmcharlt BobB: anything to report?
18:52 cait hm wrong time I think
18:52 gmcharlt yep
18:52 gmcharlt so moving on
18:52 gmcharlt #topic Decide time of next meeting
18:52 Topic for #koha is now Decide time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 June 2013)
18:53 gmcharlt going by our normal cycle, I think that would be Wednesday, 3 July 2013
18:53 davidnind Time for next meeting would be 10:00 UTC
18:53 tcohen is there a kohacon13 planning meeting soon?
18:53 thd Wed 3 is too soon after ALA
18:54 nancyk 26th of june 18UTC for KohaCon 13 planning
18:54 thd I suggest Wed. 10 July.
18:55 gmcharlt #info Next KohaCon 13 planning meeting is on 26 June 2013 at 18UTC
18:55 oleonard Either is fine with me, I don't object to the 10th.
18:55 gmcharlt ditto
18:56 gmcharlt OK, so +1/-1 for Wednesday, 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC+0 ?
18:56 tcohen +1
18:56 oleonard +1
18:56 cait +1
18:56 thd +1
18:56 davidnind +1
18:56 drojf +1
18:56 mtompset +1
18:57 JDatTeTakere +1
18:57 gmcharlt #agreed Next general meeting wlll be held on Wednesday, 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC+0
18:57 gmcharlt and ... we've run out of agenda items!
18:57 tcohen do we have a calendar@google for koha stufF?
18:58 mtompset I'm assuming to help co-ordinate various meetings, right, tcohen?
18:58 thd tcohen: If we did that would not be a free software calendar.
18:58 * tcohen hides
18:59 tcohen I belive we could have such a tool, maybe a hosted one
18:59 mtompset If the purpose it to co-ordinate meetings, it wouldn't have to be google. The point is a generally shared calendar.
18:59 tcohen nevermind,if I come up with a proposal, I'll make it
18:59 drojf do whatever you like on google, don't make it in any way obligatory for me to use it
18:59 gmcharlt I agree that some sort of calendar would be nice
18:59 thd tcohen: I would suggest creating a comprehensive calendar page at instead.
18:59 oleonard MediaWiki plugin?
18:59 gmcharlt tcohen: perhaps talk with wizzyrea?
18:59 tcohen i'll do it
19:00 tcohen touche drojf
19:00 cait i think we have a calendar on the kc-website
19:00 cait we just don't use it very often
19:00 drojf heh
19:00 gmcharlt cait: yeah, I vaguely remember that
19:00 gmcharlt :/
19:00 gmcharlt OK, thanks folks!
19:00 gmcharlt #endmeeting
19:00 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Next general IRC meeting 5 June 2013 at 18:00 UTC
19:00 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jun  5 19:00:46 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
19:00 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-05-18.05.html
19:00 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]3-06-05-18.05.txt
19:00 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]05-18.05.log.html
19:01 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Next general IRC meeting 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC+0
19:01 davidnind gmcharlt++
19:01 cait gmcharlt++
19:02 thd tcohen: As drojf stated anyone is free to start a calendar anywhere but we may already have some community resources which should serve the purpose.
19:03 mtompset I couldn't see a calendar, as I would expect a calendar, but I do see an "Events" section.
19:03 tcohen thd: if we have that resources, I'll try to focus on that for my proposal
19:03 tcohen i mentioned google calendar as i use it for my personal stuff
19:03 tcohen but agree is not the best approach
19:04 tcohen bye #Koha
19:05 davidnind left #koha
19:05 thd tcohen: We have moved away from dependencies on non-free software from Google which we have had at one time.  Google has a bad habit of dropping or changing features and as their implementations are not generally free software we cannot simply fork their proprietary products.
19:06 pianohacker see greader
19:07 thd s/dependencies/relying upon/
19:07 jcamins Fortunately before he left tcohen indicated that he would look into the community's existing unused calendar tools.
19:07 oleonard And fortunately before he left he agreed that Google Calendar wasn't the best approach
19:07 drojf i have offered to end friendships for putting my data into google calendar ;)
19:08 thd :)
19:09 drojf do we still do the unwritten "not two times in a row on the same continent" thing for kohacon?
19:09 oleonard I assume so
19:09 jcamins Yes.
19:09 jcamins I think it was even written somewhere.
19:11 gmcharlt[…]onference_Bidding woudl be the closest
19:11 gmcharlt which suggests yes, different continent
19:12 gmcharlt but (at least as written) doesn't settle on a 4 vs. 6 approach
19:12 cait 4 vs 6
19:12 cait ?
19:13 cait hm it has a note at the top: N.B. This is a proposal / request for comment, it is not the will of the Community. (Yet. Bend! I has chocolate!)
19:13 gmcharlt indeed
19:13 gmcharlt maybe it's a small question?
19:13 cait i think maybe avoid the same in twice in a row
19:13 * gmcharlt favors 6 (or even 7, if somebody figured out a way to subsidize folk's travel to Antarctica)
19:14 cait and it's always going to matter who offers to host
19:14 * jcamins would favor 6.
19:14 jcamins But doesn't actually care.
19:14 * oleonard would not favor a hackfest which required the wearing of mittens
19:15 pianohacker If only because it reflects a desire to spread the travel pain around, definitely 6
19:15 pianohacker toronto is a long way from buenos aires
19:15 gmcharlt yeah, lumping North and South America together would be a bit weird
19:16 pianohacker what else would you put together, though?
19:17 gmcharlt that's might point, I wouldn't lump
19:17 gmcharlt *my point
19:17 cait europe has the disadvantage of too many countries in not a lot of space... hard for everyone to get a turn ;)
19:19 drojf yes, we deserve to be regarded as several continents ;)
19:20 jcamins drojf: the beer continent, the cheese continent, and the salted taffey continent?
19:20 jcamins Or salted licorice.
19:21 * oleonard shudders
19:21 jcamins oleonard: it's called salmiak.
19:22 * jcamins learned this from #evergreen.
19:23 drojf and it's lovely
19:24 jcamins drojf: apparently it's very polarizing.
19:24 oleonard What directory are plugins uploaded to?
19:25 drojf jcamins: this is polarizing ;)[…]iakki_Koskenkorva
19:26 jcamins drojf: wow. That is.
19:26 jcamins oleonard: the directory set in koha-conf.xml.
19:26 drojf we should have kohacon in finland ;)
19:27 BigRig joined #koha
19:27 rhcl Thailand
19:27 oleonard Thanks jcamins
19:28 jcamins There's an Evergreen library in Finland. Not sure I know of any Koha libraries in Finland (not that this means there aren't).
19:28 rhcl nobody has talked recently of having a joint EG-Koha conference
19:29 jcamins rhcl: it would be incumbent on someone proposing to coordinate that.
19:29 rhcl above my pay grade
19:33 oleonard Coding guideline note: If you add a class to something in the template because you want it to look different, make sure that class exists in the CSS
19:33 jcamins oleonard: maybe the class was just to make it possible to customize in the future?
19:34 oleonard Or maybe it was because I typed a class I thought existed but didn't?
19:34 jcamins Or that.
19:42 tcohen joined #koha
19:43 pianohacker oleonard: no no go for the omniscient, forward-planning defence
19:45 * oleonard hops in his time machine and sets it for the future
19:45 * cait has mac n cheese yay!
20:07 cait now i wonder about the minutes :)
20:09 jcamins Me too!
20:09 cait we are too curious for our own good
20:09 rangi lol
20:09 rangi 2 secs
20:10 rangi talking about hiring an in house developer
20:10 rangi apparently no ll libs do it, and community ones only ever do bugfixes
20:11 mtompset pianohacker: Alaska and Canada, because Alaska is an island in the middle of nowhere. ;)
20:11 rangi apparently marcelr, tcohen, oleonard (and all the ones i missed) dont exist
20:12 jcamins I think Mathieu would be a little insulted.
20:12 rangi oh yes mathieu too
20:12 cait do i have to read the whole thing?
20:12 cait or will you give a hint?
20:12 jcamins Wait, really?
20:13 jcamins 3 upgrades a year is a lot?
20:13 rangi heh
20:13 rangi about page 3 cait
20:13 cait in ils world yes
20:13 cait found it
20:13 cait thx :)
20:13 jcamins cait: I don't know, my stance is that minor updates should be *so* minor that you can have them monthly.
20:14 rangi oh dobrica
20:14 jcamins Yes, Dobrica.
20:14 rangi theres tons!
20:14 rangi eggs
20:14 rangi if thats the level of research the librarians there can do, ....
20:14 rangi anyway, i just felt i needed to point out that it was wrong
20:15 rangi maybe ill do a blog post
20:15 cait rangi: does it really matter? they are not using 'community koha'
20:15 jcamins Wow, what a weird word: Лусии
20:15 cait lucy?
20:15 jcamins (It's "Lucia" as in "Saint Lucia")
20:15 hankbank joined #koha
20:15 cait aah
20:16 jcamins cait: but it looks totally wrong as an ordinary nominative noun! It's just sitting there going "hey, what? You thought I was Russian?"
20:16 cait lol
20:16 rhcl rangi: yes
20:17 rhcl yea, we were up to talk to them a couple of years ago
20:17 rangi cait: it does when they are saying things about koha
20:17 * drojf claims kind-of-an-inhouse-programmer status ^^
20:17 cait rangi: yeah adding to the confusion :(
20:18 rangi right time to take kids to school bbiab
20:18 cait drojf: you are totally :)
20:18 cait can I count too? bsz's own library also uses koha :)
20:18 cait hehe
20:18 drojf yay we are legion ;)
20:19 jcamins drojf: well done! That phrase gives a lot of non-native English speakers trouble.
20:20 drojf ??
20:20 jcamins "We are legion."
20:21 jcamins A lot of people think it's "We are legions" because "legion" is a singular noun.
20:21 drojf i think anonymous fixed that ;)
20:21 jcamins True of native English speakers as well, actually.
20:21 drojf you can actually say it in german too, but it is not used very often
20:24 cait :)
20:34 kathryn joined #koha
20:42 khall joined #koha
20:43 mtompset legion?! Is there a demonic possession somewhere? ;)
20:43 tcohen we had a legion
20:44 tcohen "The legion"
20:44 tcohen[…]na_Davis_Cup_team
20:45 mtompset Ah... tennis team.
20:46 tcohen also an infamous legion
20:50 mtompset YES! YES! YES!
20:50 mtompset I have gotten a link to fake login as me!
20:51 mtompset Now to rip out the fake login as me and put in a login in as someone real.
20:51 gmcharlt mtompset: what are you up to, anyway?
20:51 tcohen shibboleth
20:51 mtompset Okay... I've set up simple saml php...
20:52 mtompset I've got it working to test against OpenIDP
20:52 mtompset I have hacked koha to redirect to a php script I created from a copy of authenticate.php
20:52 mtompset which then calls a backchannel perl script.
20:52 mtompset and then redirects to the OPAC
20:53 mtompset I started this work based on biblibre's shibboleth hack.
20:54 mtompset Though, I think this could get integrated as a RESTFUL Login API .
20:54 tcohen do u think it is possible to do it using oerl?
20:54 tcohen perl?
20:54 wahanui perl is, like, different things to different people
20:55 mtompset Do what simplesamlphp does in perl?
20:55 mtompset Mmmmm.... I'm not going to try, if this passing stuff works.
20:55 tcohen do what that php script does
20:55 mtompset first, it does the saml authentication to the source.
20:56 mtompset upon successful authentication, it calls a "backchannel" script which sets up the user session information and returns the session id, the php script then puts the session id into the cookie and redirects to the OPAC.
20:58 mtompset I've been working off a HTML page just to avoid the session cookie from being tinkered with... but now that the link on the testing HTML page works... I can try to set it up in my hacked up OPAC and confirm it works. :)
20:59 tcohen great mtompset, congratulations
20:59 mtompset the backchannel script is currently called POST with the attributes returned by the authentication source yaml-ized.
20:59 mtompset I have code to de-yaml-ize it, and map it like the ldap stuff.
21:00 mtompset So, the login by email equivalent, except using simplesamlphp (or whatever other authenticating system), should follow from this.
21:23 gmcharlt mtompset: I know next to nothing about Shibboleth -- is it a thing with it that PHP is either required, or at least it is much easier to support using PHP?
21:24 mtompset SimpleSAMLPHP provides Shibboleth 1.3 and SAML 2.0 support rather easily, and it is available as a package under Ubuntu. I have yet to confirm it is under Debian, but I would suspect it is.
21:25 mtompset The PHP authentication hacked script I have would need to be written for the users context, but I am assuming that is do-able.
21:25 mtompset The Perl side of it will do the translation of the authenticated attributes and do the log in into Koha.
21:26 mtompset Effectively, the perl-side becomes a REST-ful API for logging in.
21:27 mtompset I still have to work out the log out part... but right now, that is low priority. :)
21:27 gmcharlt a la /svc/authentication? :)
21:27 pianohacker svc++
21:27 mtompset Yes, but this doesn't pass a username and password. :P
21:28 pianohacker extend 'er to then
21:29 mtompset Because, unless the SAML was implemented in Perl, you won't know the password... uid is, however, a typical attribute you likely will know, as it email address.
21:29 mtompset ^it^is^
21:31 gmcharlt what about Net::SAML?
21:31 mtompset I was concerned about licensing issues, and bug fixes if it is broken, etc. etc.
21:31 mtompset SimpleSAMLPHP externally is much more active.
21:32 mtompset Net::SAML and Net::SAML2 have bad reps. :)
21:33 tcohen besides the simplesamlphp idp, why do u need to hack php?
21:34 mtompset Also, gmcharlt, svc/authentication doesn't add users.
21:34 mtompset To pass back the attributes to perl.
21:36 mtompset The SAML processing is done in the PHP, not Perl.
21:36 hankbank joined #koha
21:37 wizzyrea pianohacker++
21:37 wizzyrea so glad you're back.
21:37 pianohacker thanks, wizzyrea
21:37 pianohacker good to be back :)
21:38 tcohen wizzyrea: is it possible to have a calendar on
21:38 mtompset I was just thinking that, tcohen. ;)
21:38 wizzyrea for what purpose :)
21:39 wizzyrea (the answer is yes0
21:39 wizzyrea anything is possible
21:39 tcohen 1) graphical visualization of important Koha dates
21:39 tcohen 2) ical or something compatible, to have it on our smartphones or any gadget we have
21:40 mtompset (translation team meetings, general meetings, annual conference dates, etc.)
21:41 tcohen (string freeze, feature freeze, release dates, etc)
21:41 wizzyrea any other requirements?
21:41 tcohen i got hammered for proposing using evil calendar
21:41 jcamins 3) so people know what to have for dinner, in case they forget that pizza is for dinner on Fridays, etc.
21:43 cait :)
21:43 cait tcohen: you live :)
21:44 tcohen :D
21:44 wizzyrea oh I don't bother saying the g word anymore
21:45 wizzyrea i use it for mail, youtube, and a little plus and that's about it.
21:47 tcohen i depend on the calendar @ work, don't forget my memory fades, as I'm 122
21:47 cait didn't you already turn 123?
21:47 tcohen that'd be 18th june
21:48 pianohacker jcamins: as a college student I can authoritatively state that pizza is for every dinner
21:48 pianohacker once thanks to a bunch of presentations I had pizza 4 days in a row
21:48 pianohacker that was... entertaining
21:48 jcamins pianohacker: yeah, but it's an international phenomenon in #koha.
21:48 jcamins Ugh. I can't see the screen the glare is so bad.
21:48 mtompset Close your eyes. The reason will change. :P
21:49 jcamins I suppose it will.
21:49 mtompset I thought fish was on Fridays? Why Pizza?
21:50 jcamins mtompset: because magnuse makes pizza sound delicious.
21:51 mtompset But I though cookies were delicious. :P
21:51 mtompset ^though^thought^
21:52 pianohacker quick git trivia question; is there any way to update master to origin/master when master isn't checked out?
21:52 jcamins Aren't they both?
21:52 tcohen rangi: did you arrange this to have access to a big kitchen @ reno?
21:52 jcamins pianohacker: not that I know of. You're going to have to check out master at some point.
21:52 pianohacker jcamins: Curses! An extra second in my workflow! :)
21:53 gmcharlt pianohacker: you're not a Culture Ship Mind, you can take it ;)
21:53 tcohen doesn't git pull do that?
21:54 gmcharlt tcohen: no; git pull == git fetch + git merge
21:54 pianohacker hehe
21:54 gmcharlt but git merge is done on the current, checked-out branch
21:54 mtompset Goodness... I knew that. :P
21:54 tcohen i miss understood the question
21:55 pianohacker tcohen: I have branch "potato" checked out, was wondering if there was a way to update "master" to "origin/master" without checking out "master" first
21:55 mtompset wants to do a git pull without having to issue the checkout... because that might require a commit. :P
21:55 jcamins pianohacker: but why would you want to update master without having it checked out?
21:55 mtompset ^He wants^
21:56 pianohacker it was an idle curiosity :) Mainly so I can get all the branches in my git repo up to date without disturbing the working tree on my demo server
21:56 tcohen[…]t-checking-it-out
21:57 jcamins mtompset: right, but that's not actually a reason to do it, just an explanation of what he's trying to do.
21:57 pianohacker thanks to the godforsaken building wifi, I can only get stuff into github by ssh reverse-forwarding to my demo server for work, pulling from my laptop to the demo server, then pushing from there
21:57 jcamins Okay.
21:57 pianohacker That somehow works in a second, though a git push directly to github takes a minute or so then fails
21:58 pianohacker don't ask me why
21:58 jcamins So why are you trying to update master on your local repo?
21:58 rangi tcohen: not yet
21:58 mtompset pianohacker: Reminds me of
21:59 pianohacker So I can get my github up to date
21:59 pianohacker I've already done it the sane way, this is just curiosity
21:59 jcamins Ah.
21:59 jcamins What do you keep in your master branch?
22:00 pianohacker jcamins: Just upstream master
22:00 jcamins In that case, I suggest git push mycrazyremote origin/master:master
22:01 pianohacker mtompset: yeah, basically
22:01 pianohacker jcamins: Yeah
22:02 mtompset I figured as such, since you complained about that extra second in your workflow. :)
22:02 pianohacker tcohen: that looks like it would work but is crazy enough to convince me that I'm crazy
22:02 mtompset And it is the firewall, of course. :)
22:02 tcohen heh
22:03 pianohacker naw, blaming the ISP is better
22:03 tcohen infrastructure question: do we use gitosis? or gitolite? neither?
22:03 pianohacker then it's a firewall protected by several layers of useless tech support
22:04 rangi tcohen: gitolite
22:05 rangi gmcharlt and I can edit the config
22:05 rangi if you need anything
22:07 tcohen sorry, phone rangi
22:07 tcohen we are having issues
22:07 tcohen with our gitolite
22:07 tcohen (with redmine)
22:08 rangi oh?
22:08 pianohacker augh r/crappydesign is in comic sans
22:08 tcohen @ unc, we use that
22:08 huginn` tcohen: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
22:08 jcamins pianohacker: let's think about this for a moment...
22:09 tcohen and wanted to know if updating gitolite was a pain or not
22:09 pianohacker it's appropriate, of course, but still painful
22:09 tcohen (i.e.if i have to do it or if i can delegate to the production guys)
22:10 gmcharlt tcohen: are you currently using v2 or v3?
22:11 rangi tcohen: so far ive found it really painless
22:11 tcohen v2.3-35-gd59bc35
22:11 tcohen (i didn't do the install, and they wouldn't let me maintain it, but i took control yesterday)
22:12 tcohen (after several problems related to redmine, besides being ugly)
22:12 wizzyrea tcohen - still experimental, not many events, but:
22:13 gmcharlt tcohen: it's not painful, but personally I wouldn't delegate to anybody who wasn't reasonably famiiliar with git and git hooks
22:13 tcohen understood, thanks gmcharlt
22:14 tcohen wizzyrea: you rule, you know that?
22:14 gmcharlt wizzyrea: groovy
22:14 cait wizzyrea++
22:14 wizzyrea naw, I just have wicked google fu :p
22:14 NateC joined #koha
22:14 wizzyrea google searching.
22:15 tcohen wizzyrea++
22:17 wizzyrea agenda?
22:17 wahanui agenda is a wiki
22:17 wizzyrea irc meeting?
22:17 wizzyrea gr.
22:17 wizzyrea theoretically we could put the agenda on the event on the calendar
22:18 gmcharlt event editnig permissions are predicated on having a WP account?
22:18 wizzyrea yep, with permissions, which is probably an argument to leave it on the wiki
22:19 wizzyrea[…]445/?instance_id=
22:19 wizzyrea (for example)
22:20 rambutan joined #koha
22:20 gmcharlt snazzy
22:20 rhcl joined #koha
22:21 gmcharlt I think wiki for now, but I could imagine a grand unification project that ties both WP and Mediawiki to an LDAP directory
22:21 wizzyrea cuz'n we can do that now ;)
22:22 gmcharlt heh - might be areason to keep it MU
22:22 wizzyrea oh all wordpress is MU now, you just have to enable it
22:22 wizzyrea (and it's still mu anyway)
22:23 mtompset MU?
22:23 wahanui hmmm... MU is a speaker, AR is a little book
22:23 wizzyrea multiuser/multiblog
22:23 mtompset I thought MU was mutual understanding. ;)
22:25 wizzyrea gr I can't work on this now but will go back to it later.
22:30 pianohacker @seen srdjan
22:30 huginn` pianohacker: I have not seen srdjan.
22:31 pianohacker Does he come on IRC at all?
22:31 wizzyrea try papa
22:31 wizzyrea @seen papa
22:31 huginn` wizzyrea: papa was last seen in #koha 21 hours, 36 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <papa> Like when it had MARC in it, i'd skip immediately :)
22:31 pianohacker Ah, thanks
22:31 pianohacker @later tell papa updated patch #1 for 10320, thanks for the feedback
22:31 huginn` pianohacker: The operation succeeded.
22:33 pianohacker
22:34 druthb pianohacker++
22:34 pianohacker no-restart install for firefox, and it's... amazing
22:35 wizzyrea bug 10320
22:35 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10320 enhancement, P4, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Show results from library's OverDrive collection in OPAC search
22:35 NateC joined #koha
22:38 pianohacker wizzyrea: First patch since I got back
22:38 cait congrats :)
22:38 wizzyrea and boy what a doozy
22:38 wizzyrea that's fantastic.
22:38 wizzyrea looks and works nicely too!
22:39 pianohacker thanks :)
22:54 eythian hi
22:55 rhcl hi
22:57 cait wizzyrea: can we get a screenshot? no overdrive in germany
22:57 eythian hi cait, what are you doing still up?
22:57 cait i was finishing my latest distance study course :)
22:58 eythian ah, cool
22:58 eythian oh, if you want some more, Catalyst did this website:
22:58 cait and now i am going to bed - still curious how overdrive looks like :)
22:59 cait eythian: rangi showed me already - but i better stick to those i need for my degree for now :)
22:59 eythian that's taking the easy way out!
22:59 wizzyrea I don't have a screenshot
22:59 cait ooh
23:00 cait night all :)
23:00 cait left #koha
23:02 rhcl left #koha
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23:16 Dani joined #koha
23:17 Brooke joined #koha
23:17 Brooke o/
23:18 laurence left #koha
23:39 eythian <-- neat
23:40 tcohen hi eythian
23:40 eythian hello
23:40 wahanui bonjour, eythian
23:43 tcohen that's awesome eythian
23:43 eythian it really is
23:45 dcook joined #koha
23:55 jcamins My brother was docked in a course in his second MA degree program at Arizona State for providing the citation to the original text of an article rather than a reproduction of the article which he had not yet received.
23:56 jcamins That's kind of absurd.
23:56 jcamins Especially since apparently the reason he lost points was "his citation was wrong."
23:57 jcamins Just when I think that faculty members should be relied upon to teach citation, someone comes along and demonstrates that librarians _are_ necessary in that connection.
23:58 dcook O_o
23:58 papa joined #koha

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