IRC log for #koha, 2013-03-25

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:05 eythian <-- cjh
00:07 cjh linux in space, awesome.
00:10 wizzyrea When the build fails, it should "fail loudly" with a "monitor that starts flashing red" and email to everyone on the team. When that happens, you should "respond immediately" to fix the problem. In his team, they have a full-size Justin Bieber cutout that gets placed facing the team member who broke the build. They found that "100% of software engineers don't like Justin Bieber", and will work quickly to fix the build problem.
00:19 jcamins lol
00:23 cjh eythian: fantastic article, thanks
00:23 eythian thought you'd like it
00:23 cjh >"Automate process processes", he said. Things like coding standards, static analysis, spaces vs. tabs, or detecting the use of Emacs should be done automatically.
00:31 jcamins "Detecting the use of emacs" -- definitely a problem.
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01:22 eythian jcamins: would doing a build from master be akin to a 3.12-beta?
01:35 jcamins Yes.
01:35 jcamins Exactly the same.
01:36 eythian excellent. Just built 3.8.11, doing the other two now.
01:38 eythian also going to prepare the patches for 3.12/3.13, too.
01:40 jcamins Awesome, thanks!
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02:01 jcamins Oh, hey- are you planning on updating the Debian changelog with the stable releases?
02:02 eythian jcamins: yeah, that'll be in the patch
02:02 eythian not all of them, I'll just grab it at where 3.10 is up to now
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02:15 jcamins Right.
02:15 jcamins That's what I had in mind.
02:15 jcamins Seems like it would be good for continuity, when it moves to squeeze.
02:16 eythian yeah
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03:17 eythian_ jcamins: bug 9918 is ready for you
03:17 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9918 major, P1 - high, ---, robin, Passed QA , Packaging updates for 3.12
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04:49 rangi @later tell jcamins bug 9919 needs to be fast tracked, install is currently busted
04:49 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
04:49 rangi bug 9919
04:49 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9919 blocker, P5 - low, ---, peterAtKohaBugzilla, Needs Signoff , Syntax error in kohastructure.sql
04:57 cjh :(
04:57 cjh oh wow, awesome work by peter
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06:43 cait good morning #koha
06:47 cjh good evening cait :)
06:47 cait hi cjh :)
06:48 cait looks like it was a busy day at catalyst? :)
07:47 rangi drojf++
07:48 cjh cait: sorry wandered off to make dinner :)
07:49 cait drojf++ indeed
07:49 cait cjh:  no problem :)
07:49 * cait wanders off to work now :)
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07:52 alohabot Hi mib_6pv427, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
07:53 mib_6pv427 how to upload and access e books in koha?
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07:56 marcelr hi #koha
07:57 mib_6pv427 hello
07:57 wahanui hola, mib_6pv427
07:58 sophie_m hello #koha
07:58 mib_6pv427 can u solve my query: hw do we upload and access e books in koha?
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08:04 matts hi !
08:04 mib_6pv427 hi
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08:10 cjh mib_6pv427: you can place a link to digital resources in the 856 marc field, see[…]4ee1fdec38f4c8709
08:11 cjh mib_6pv427: if they arent currently online you could place them somewhere on your server and then link to them
08:12 mib_6pv427 thnx, but  i hv it in pdf format
08:13 cjh mib_6pv427: that is fine, the marc 856 field just takes a link, in the above example I posted they link to pdfs.
08:14 mib_6pv427 okkkkkkk thank u so much
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08:17 cjh mib_6pv427: you're welcome, hope that is enough information for you. Good luck :)
08:17 mib_6pv427 :)
08:18 clrh bonjour
08:18 wahanui bonjour, clrh
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08:23 gaetan_B hello
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08:40 christophe_c hello #koha
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10:25 * kf waves
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11:24 khall mornin paul_p and all!
11:25 paul_p hi khall ! safe back home ?
11:25 khall indeed!
11:26 khall Marseille was great, but there's no place like home ; )
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11:28 tcohen hi khall, paul_p
11:28 khall mornin tchoen!
11:29 * kf waves at khall
11:29 khall mornin kf!
11:30 kf glad to hear you are back home :)
11:30 * khall and kf get to sit next to each other in irc
11:30 khall kf, are you home yet?
11:30 kf :)
11:30 kf yep, arrived saturday - around 7pm
11:30 kf not too bad
11:31 kf still trying to decide what I missed more - my shower or my bed :)
11:31 khall that's good to hear/read
11:31 khall heh
11:31 khall I definitely missed both
11:31 kf yep
11:31 * kf tries hard not to mention knife.
11:32 khall kf didn't try hard enough! : )=
11:32 kf sorry? ;)
11:32 kf we should consider a holiday apartment next time - magnuse invited us friday night and it was wonderful
11:32 kf the kitchen was bigger than mine at home
11:33 khall that's not a bad idea!
11:34 kf khall: what are you working on today?
11:34 * kf misses to have you all around
11:34 * khall is going to start carrying a giant crocodile-dundee sized bowie knife which he will then use to each hsi meals
11:34 kf lol
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11:35 khall I'm going to start by wading through emails, then I thought I might look at what bugs we have outstanding that need squashed
11:35 kf ah, similar here
11:35 kf I got 1150 mails...
11:36 khall wow, and I thought I had it bad with 274
11:36 kf win! :(
11:37 kf nah, it's not so bad, but have to be careful when deleting my way through the pile :)
11:37 khall indeed
11:37 khall though if you delete everything, I'm sure the important ones will get re-emailed, right ; )
11:38 kf heh
11:38 kf better not try that approach
11:38 kf @wunder Konstanz
11:38 huginn kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is -0.2°C (12:35 PM CET on March 25, 2013). Conditions: Light Snow Showers. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: -3.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
11:39 khall When I left it was around around 10c and when I came back there was a foot of snow on the ground
11:41 kf ew
11:41 kf bit of snow here too
11:42 khall we get tons of snow because we are 40 miles away from the great lakes in the "snow belt"
11:43 khall[…]+Pennsylvania&z=8
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11:44 kf makes sense
11:44 kf you got the bigger lake... but ours is nice too
11:44 kf[…]+Pennsylvania&z=8
11:45 khall the wind comes out of the north-west, crosses the lake where it picks up humidity, and dumps it all on us as snow
11:46 * khall didn't realize wikipedia has an article on it:
11:48 khall kf, your area looks pretty nice, it's almost a peninsula
11:48 kf it IS a nice area - you should all visit :)
11:49 kf hm but I messed up the link. oups
11:49 kf[…]&t=h&z=12&layer=t
11:49 khall that would be great! You should put in a bid for KohaCon!
11:50 kf :)
12:04 nengard has anyone heard of the holds queue pulling the home library instead of the current location in 3.10.3?
12:10 kf nengard: I think there is a bug
12:11 kf I think Liz repoted something ...
12:12 kf bug 9591
12:12 wahanui somebody said bug 9591 was a weird one
12:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9591 blocker, P3, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Set Library changes after viewing Holds Queue >> reserves item
12:12 kf bug 9906
12:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9906 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Holds Return Policy and Local Hold Item Types not working as expected
12:15 kf hm not sure where she put the comment i was thinking about
12:16 nengard wizzyrea wake up!! :) we need you :)
12:16 nengard hehe
12:16 kf i rmember it said she woudl report a new bug
12:21 kf nengard: perhaps I dreamed it
12:21 nengard heh
12:21 kf can't find it at least:(
12:21 nengard i'll see if i can confirm a problem before i report anything
12:22 nengard right now it's based on an email
12:22 nengard no testing on my part
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12:46 oleonard Hi #koha
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12:49 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_9919' into 3.12-master <[…]28668878f519a4904> / Bug 9919: Correct syntax error caused by missing comma. <[…]f57381351e58ab3a4>
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12:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #1120 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
12:58 kf good morning jcamins ;)
12:58 jcamins Hello.
13:02 tcohen hi jcamins, kf
13:02 kf hi tcohen
13:02 jcamins Can you have multiple header rows in a table?
13:03 kf in which program?
13:04 kf I would think so, at least that's what I do sometimes
13:04 jcamins HTML.
13:04 oleonard Yes, that's valid
13:05 oleonard Whether or not something like DataTables will lose its marbles is another question
13:05 kf true
13:05 jcamins Thanks.
13:06 kf and hi oleonard :)
13:06 oleonard I hope your trip home was good kf
13:06 kf long but good :)
13:06 kf thx :)
13:07 * oleonard wonders if khall and bag are back
13:07 khall indeed!
13:07 kf oleonard: be careful, he might have a... never mind
13:08 kf khall: okok, I will stop :)
13:08 khall grrrr
13:08 kf I was just trying to hold onto marseille a bit longer...
13:08 khall : )=
13:09 oleonard khall: Did you flight home have free seat-back movies?
13:09 khall yeah, but no the on-demand kind
13:09 oleonard Bummer. Those are my favorite.
13:09 khall yeah, much better that way
13:22 tcohen fredericdem: koha-index-daemon doesn't survive temporal db connection errors
13:30 oleonard I can only hope that when I die I have earned the right to a 100$c
13:32 jcamins oleonard: heh. I don't even have a 100$a yet!
13:32 oleonard Hm, good point. Me neither.
13:47 kf hm
13:47 bag morning all
13:47 kf hey bag :)
13:47 bag heya kf
13:47 kf had a good trip?
13:48 bag still a tiny bit jet lagged
13:49 bag but besides that I'm great!  was great to see Ginny and Sonja
13:49 kf :)
13:49 kf is the chocolate rabbit still alive?
13:49 bag it is!
13:49 bag no dents
13:49 kf wow! :)
13:49 khall Just found a new critical bug:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9922
13:49 huginn Bug 9922: critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , holds queue shows home library with AutomaticReturn
13:49 oleonard bag: Did you smuggle any Kinder eggs?
13:50 kf khall: I think nengard was talking aobut this earlier and still think liz too... but can't find her comment
13:50 kf oleonard: lindt chocolate bunny :)
13:50 khall kf: I still have my rabbit too!
13:50 bag I didn't know about Kinder eggs?
13:50 kf :)
13:50 oleonard bag: That's because you're not a hardened criminal
13:50 bag But I did smuggle some fois grau for my bother :P
13:50 kf oleonard: next time... but I thought better not tempt them
13:51 oleonard[…]anada-border.html
13:52 jcamins lol
13:53 bag HA
13:56 oleonard I guess TSA was looking for real criminals when I went through
13:57 chris_n so you can carry your pocket knife, but don't dare bring chocolate eggs
13:57 oleonard I'm just lucky my children survived being given such a dangerous snack. Of course I've been careful to teach them never to cram a full-sized chocolate egg into their mouths all at once too.
13:57 chris_n moronic to say the least
13:58 jcamins chris_n: there were... probably zero... reported deaths due to kinder eggs the year before they were banned!
13:58 chris_n oleonard++ # "I've been careful to teach them...."
13:59 chris_n jcamins: lol
13:59 jcamins Actually, apparently there have been six deaths.
13:59 chris_n hot dogs are probably a greater risk than the toys in candy eggs
14:00 jcamins chris_n: BAN THE HOTDOGS!
14:00 jcamins A $2500 fine per egg.
14:01 chris_n "In one analysis of about 450 choking fatalities among children over two decades, the inhalation of latex balloons was responsible for 29% of deaths and 17% of deaths were caused by hot dogs."
14:02 * chris_n did not see eggs listed in that article
14:02 oleonard Much easier to ban European candy than all-American processed meat.
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14:03 * chris_n notices the next release date misses his birthday by one day
14:03 jcamins chris_n: in which direction?
14:04 chris_n may 17
14:04 jcamins Ah, no, the PO updating misses your birthday by one day.
14:04 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1120: SUCCESS in 1 hr 9 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1120/
14:04 jenkins_koha Peter Crellan Kelly: Bug 9919: Correct syntax error caused by missing comma.
14:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9919 blocker, P5 - low, ---, peterAtKohaBugzilla, Pushed to Master , Syntax error in kohastructure.sql
14:04 jcamins I want three days to struggle with producing a tarball.
14:05 * chris_n misread
14:05 chris_n :)
14:05 oleonard Your efforts will be worth it jcamins when you get to yell at people for using it to install Koha ;)
14:06 chris_n ok, back to wrestling with Python :-P
14:06 oleonard wrestling with Python > wrestling a python?
14:06 chris_n it sure feels like it
14:07 jcamins "Showing 4 of 3 records"
14:08 jcamins Something tells me that's not right.
14:08 jcamins Is Peter Crellan Kelly a new committer?
14:10 oleonard rangi said something on Twitter about new committers from a workshop yesterday
14:11 jcamins Cool!
14:11 jcamins Now... why does it say 4 of 3?
14:11 jcamins The 4 is right.
14:11 jcamins The 3 is not.
14:12 jcamins Oh, because I screwed up my data.
14:15 jcamins Maybe...
14:15 wahanui rumour has it maybe is a momentaneous error
14:19 oleonard If I test a Z39.50 search as part of testing Bug 6554 and find the Z39.50 search results includes junk like "Herg�e" is that a failing of the patch, or business as usual for Z39.50?
14:19 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6554 critical, P3, ---, dpavlin, Needs Signoff , Broken encoding in members home/search page
14:20 jcamins Business as usual, most likely.
14:21 oleonard also: Navigating Koha with Ukranian translation enabled is kinda fun.
14:22 jcamins Heh.
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14:39 kf jcamins: hm, I don't understand your po file mail :)
14:39 kf jcamins: a few days before release (release release?) because that might not be enough, we need an update when the help files are in
14:39 jcamins Yes, and if the help files aren't in by May 1, they're not going in at all.
14:39 jcamins We have over a month of feature freeze before string freeze.
14:40 jcamins And usually string freeze is two weeks.
14:40 jcamins Or less.
14:41 tcohen couldn't we put a name to every koha release? like debian does?
14:41 jcamins tcohen: yes, I have to choose a name.
14:41 jcamins It's going to be dessert-themed.
14:41 tcohen sweet
14:41 tcohen :-D
14:42 jcamins Or cat themed.
14:42 tcohen cheese?
14:42 wahanui cheese is, like, delicious, but cait just had butter
14:42 jcamins Ooh.
14:42 jcamins Or cheese themed.
14:43 oleonard Or root-vegetable themed!
14:43 jcamins oleonard: probably not.
14:44 * oleonard might have gotten his way if the CSA hadn't gotten to jcamins first
14:44 jcamins lol
14:45 tcohen jcamins: about the INSTALL.* files i have had dis-agreements with mtompset about them
14:45 tcohen just to clarify, I think they should target the tarball install steps, not git or anything else
14:46 jcamins They should inform people that the packages exist, and are preferable when applicable.
14:46 tcohen but what do u think of pointing them to the git install method?
14:47 jcamins There should probably be a note saying "if you plan on doing development, use git."
14:47 oleonard Why do I suddenly not see my holding libraries listed on
14:47 jcamins That is the only installation documentation we have, and I don't see that changing.
14:48 jcamins oleonard: I don't know.
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14:49 rambutan @seen wizzyrea
14:49 huginn rambutan: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 14 hours, 39 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> When the build fails, it should "fail loudly" with a "monitor that starts flashing red" and email to everyone on the team. When that happens, you should "respond immediately" to fix the problem. In his team, they have a full-size Justin Bieber cutout that gets placed facing the team member who broke the build. They (1 more message)
14:50 rambutan @later tell wizzyrea looks like we got about 4" of snow over the weekend.
14:50 huginn rambutan: The operation succeeded.
14:50 rambutan @wunder 64504
14:50 huginn rambutan: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is -2.3°C (9:46 AM CDT on March 25, 2013). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Windchill: -2.0°C. Pressure: 30.17 in 1022 hPa (Falling).
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14:54 gmcharlt @quote random
14:55 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #151: "<seneca> you guys are my heroes" (added by wizzyrea at 07:41 PM, August 31, 2011)
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14:59 kf jcamins: possible you meant pull request instead of update?
14:59 kf jcamins: meaning that people have to finish translating a few days before the release? because I am still confused after your 2 mails
14:59 kf but I got a cold.
14:59 jcamins Right.
15:00 jcamins Except there are no longer going to be pull requests.
15:00 jcamins I will let you send a clarifying e-mail, because clearly my clarifying e-mails don't.
15:00 kf I got a cold!
15:00 * kf sniffs
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15:34 kf oleonard++ #signing off on the encoding patch :)
15:35 oleonard I hope I tested it properly
15:35 kf :)
15:35 kf I think dpavlin will be happy about your feedback
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16:28 jcamins paypal--
16:28 oleonard That seems to be the consensus.
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16:38 bag HA jcamins we've got someone here begging to intregrate paypal and koha…  I'd rather rewrite accountlines from scratch first
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16:52 gaetan_B bye !
16:53 bag later gaetan_B
16:58 kf bag: sounds like a good alternative :)
16:58 kf and now I am leaving for today - bye all!
16:58 kf left #koha
16:58 bag oh bye cait
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16:59 drojf good day #koha
17:06 oleonard Hi drojf
17:06 drojf hi oleonard
17:06 drojf quiet around here
17:06 oleonard Yeah, everyone is hung over from Hackfest
17:08 drojf frogleg poisoning? :P
17:08 oleonard Too much pastis?
17:11 drojf oh i could use some too
17:15 oleonard Oh it's lunch time. I guess I should lunch.
17:17 drojf you should, before it slowly turns into dinner
17:17 drojf i guess i cannot wake up anyone with a nice marc/authority question, but i'll try anyway.
17:18 drojf i have a topical term that i would put into 150_a. but i also have a number corresponding to it. is 072 an appropriate place or is that meant for a higher level category? and if so what would be a better place?
17:28 drojf maybe 065 would be a good place too
17:29 drojf wahanui: how is your day?
17:29 wahanui drojf: bugger all, i dunno
17:38 drojf Random Quote ' I think we need more quotes!' :)
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17:42 khall does anyone succinctly explain the differences between the "holds to pull" and the "holds queue" reports? Nobody seems to know! Apparently a couple years ago Ian just told Nicole "Don't use the holds to pull report"
17:42 cait khall: I would bet liz can explain
17:43 cait I think the holds to pull has something to do with the holds_queue cronjob
17:43 * cait ponders
17:43 khall I think it's the other way around
17:43 khall right?
17:43 cait oh?
17:44 oleonard Yes
17:44 khall But holds to pull apparently is a bit wonky
17:44 khall I'm wondering why we have them both when they seems to accomplish the same task
17:44 cait khall: if you figure it out, you should document it :)
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18:00 bag holds to pull is old code IRC…  and is much better for a single site.  Actually I don't remember at the moment but I do know that we usually say use holds queue if you are multi site vs. use what ever you want if you are single site
18:00 bag khall ^^
18:00 khall bag: thanks for the info.
18:01 khall It really seems to me like holds to pull should be deprecated, but I may not being seeing the big picture
18:01 cait I think there really was some difference
18:01 bag I may have come down to the fact that holds queue used holding branch (well it used to before 3.10 :P )
18:01 cait but I don't remember well
18:01 bag hi cait
18:01 cait hi bag
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18:31 rangi holds to pull should only ever show holds that are on the shelf, and should not be deprecated because it works very well for a lot of libraries, but multi branch libraries shouldnt use it, or should commission it to be changed to work for them
18:31 rangi all our specials use it all the time and it works exactly how they want
18:32 bag ^^ what I said - except nicer :P
18:32 rangi holds queue on the other hand, has never worked properly
18:32 rangi works even worse now it got changed to use homebranch
18:32 bag right and has had issues with onorder etc.
18:32 bag khall ^^^
18:32 rangi ayeah
18:33 bag a bit more info for you
18:33 rangi for our publics, we find a few saved reports work better
18:33 rangi holds queue tries to be too smart
18:33 bag hmm those on the wiki?
18:33 khall that's some good information to know!
18:34 rangi probably, just select * from reserves where branchcode=<<branch>>
18:34 khall I've submitted a patch for the hold/home branch issue for the holds queue
18:34 rangi ie don't try and suggest how to fill them, like the holds queue does, just tell them all the reserves wanted at that branch and let the librarians decide how to fill them
18:34 bag yeah rangi but then you'd need to add the != onloan
18:34 rangi nope
18:35 rangi they mostly dont care, they just want to sell all the reserves
18:35 rangi theyd rather see too much, than miss some
18:35 rangi sell = see
18:35 bag hmm I guess the librarians here don't see it the same way…
18:36 khall Should we perhaps hide holds to pull for multi-branch libraries? It would be nice if we could have in words what the problem is. I'd be willing to fix it
18:36 cait i think if you have lots of branches
18:36 cait a feature that suggests who is responsible to look for a copy makes sense?
18:36 bag I would be down with hiding holds to pull for non single libraries
18:37 khall does holds to pull respect the cost matrix?
18:38 bag if you are single site
18:38 bag who cares about the cost matrix?
18:38 rangi khall: it has nothing to do with the cost matrix
18:38 khall good point
18:38 rangi it should only show you reserves for your branch, that on the shelf at your branch
18:38 rangi it shouldn't care about anything else
18:38 cait rangi: so where is cost matrix used?
18:38 * cait is confused now
18:38 rangi holdsqueue
18:38 khall holds queue uses the cost matrix
18:39 khall if it's enabled that is
18:39 bag the cost matrix should be in the holds queue
18:39 cait ah
18:39 rangi holds to pull is just a list of ones you can walk out and take off the shelf right now
18:39 jenkins_koha Starting build #35 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
18:39 cait I will leave this discussion to the holds expert and make dinner
18:39 jenkins_koha Starting build #307 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
18:39 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #307: SUCCESS in 15 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/307/
18:39 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add opaccloud
18:39 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #35: SUCCESS in 17 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]a_Docs_3.10.x/35/
18:39 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add opaccloud
18:39 bag have a good dinner cait
18:39 rangi since most special libraries, people never ever come to the library
18:39 rangi they just place holds
18:39 rangi and the staff email them the article etc
18:40 rangi stuff actually leaves the shelves less and less
18:40 rangi so the holds to pull becomes a more and more useful tool
18:40 rangi every couple of hours, you try to clear it
18:41 rangi and your organisation goes 'wow these librarians are efficient i asked for that fiscal responsibility article an hour ago, and i have it already!'
18:41 rangi and everyone is happy :-)
18:41 rangi to that end, we are building an extension to it
18:41 rangi if you switch the syspref on, any item of type article
18:41 rangi gives you a little 'fullfilled' link next to it
18:42 rangi so you can email them the article, (their email is on the holds to pull page) and click that
18:42 rangi it marks the hold filled
18:42 rangi then you are done
18:42 rangi ministry of education and a couple of others are testing that
18:43 rangi means that they track the usage, of things that were previously untracked
18:43 rangi and is very very easy for the librarians
18:43 rangi click one button
18:44 bag sorry rangi - that is pretty awesome.  we started a staff meeting (sorry to drop in the middle of a conversation) :P
18:44 bag that sounds really good though
18:45 rangi so 3.14 should have that :)
18:46 bag :)
18:52 rambutan I can't wait to see all the good stuff in Koha v8.28
18:53 oleonard anyone tried uploading a KOC file recently, by any chance?
18:54 cait :)
18:54 cait rangi: sounds like you should submit that :)
18:55 rangi i will after the release
18:55 cait cool :)
18:55 cait sounds like ti could work well for ill requests for copies too
18:56 rangi not really
18:56 cait hm
18:56 rangi because it doesnt circulate the item, because it doesnt actually leave the library, an electronic copy of it does
18:57 cait that#s ok
18:57 cait copies don't go back
18:57 rangi maybe not in your library
18:57 cait i mean they are just handed out to the patron
18:57 cait hm, maybe sould reread log after diner :)
18:57 rangi in that case, yep it would, if you never want them back
18:59 rangi ok, gotta take kids to school bbl
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19:44 Guest123 khall - the holds to pull and hold queue do not accomplish the same task.
19:45 wizzyrea holds to pull shows all items available from all libraries to fill all holds (filtered by date)
19:45 wizzyrea hold queue shows only items that this particular branch has items available to fill.
19:46 wizzyrea it also does some smart selecting based on the hold queue weight, and as you've discovered, the cost matrix.
19:47 bag khall ^^
19:47 wizzyrea holds to pull also doesn't (iirc) do much with things like holds from patrons of this library only
19:47 khall thanks!
19:47 bag I think many have tried to say the same thing - but each with a somewhat different description
19:47 wizzyrea it scatter shot shows them all and the humans have to sort it out.
19:47 bag nengard ^^  scrollback - we probably need that better defined in the doc's
19:48 nengard how far ... huh
19:48 nengard how the holds queue and holds to pull
19:48 nengard work
19:48 bag 100 lines I'd guess
19:48 nengard well those sections are very very thoroughly documented by khall :)
19:48 bag yes how the holds queue and the holds to pull are different :P
19:48 wizzyrea did I say something directly contrary to what someone else saaid?
19:48 bag nope
19:48 wizzyrea ok good.
19:48 bag we all say it a little different :)
19:49 bag holds to pull - single site.  holds queue - doesn't work :P  in summary
19:49 wizzyrea doesn't work* right now
19:49 nengard wait
19:49 nengard it used to be holds to pull doesn't work
19:49 nengard and i won't write in the manual that something doesn't work :)
19:49 bag right doesn't work right
19:49 wizzyrea no it works fine, just it doesn't work the way that people expect.
19:49 nengard k - mom needs help back to bed
19:49 bag no holds to pull has always worked - just not for multi sites
19:50 wizzyrea and it's not *practical* for multi sites.
19:50 bag that's better
19:50 wizzyrea it works fine for them but it's totally not practical
19:50 bag *practical*
19:51 wizzyrea you could probably build a sane-ish workflow around holds to pull
19:51 khall y
19:51 wizzyrea -ish
19:51 wizzyrea for multi branches. I think it's better to fix the hold queue.
19:51 nengard mom changed her mind
19:51 nengard i love being a caretaker :)
19:51 cait @later tell rangi I meant photo copies - printed articles - maybe wrong english term?
19:51 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
19:52 wizzyrea at least, if bywater is doing it I can think of one library system that in it's current state neither holds to pull or the hold queue will work.
19:52 bag yup
19:52 wizzyrea and you really don't want them shouting at you.
19:52 bag yup
19:53 wizzyrea khall I see your patch - I'll try to test that today.
19:53 khall excellent!
20:05 cait :)
20:06 alphaman left #koha
20:06 alphaman joined #koha
20:14 oleonard Bye #koha
20:25 rangi *sigh*
20:27 trea joined #koha
20:27 trea greetings #koha
20:28 cait rangi: why *sigh*?
20:28 cait and hi trea
20:28 trea hiya cait
20:28 rangi see the mailing list
20:28 cait oh i see
20:29 trea question - are the SIP response messages sent from koha? For Example if a selfcheck displays "Greetings from Koha.  PATRON EXPIRED" is this Koha sending the "PATRON EXPIRED" bit, or is that a code that the selfcheck interpolates as such
20:29 rangi trea: you can check the syslog to see :)
20:29 rangi most of the time it does both
20:29 trea okay, in this case it is Koha
20:30 trea so, how could I change it? apparently folks think the system is telling them they are deceased.
20:30 trea :(
20:30 rangi heh
20:30 trea ikr
20:30 rangi people are weird
20:30 trea yessir
20:31 cait I think some machines here interpolate and translate
20:32 rangi yeah
20:32 rangi it depends on the machine
20:33 rangi trea: SIP::ILS::Patron
20:33 trea ahhh ok
20:33 trea i'll take a look there, thanks
20:33 rangi line 53
20:33 trea rangi++
20:33 rangi $kp->{opacnote} .= 'PATRON EXPIRED';
20:33 rangi just change to
20:34 trea heh
20:34 cait lol
20:34 trea challenge accepted
20:35 wizzyrea lol.
20:36 rgbv joined #koha
20:39 rambutan @wunder 64504
20:39 huginn rambutan: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is 0.1°C (3:35 PM CDT on March 25, 2013). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: -3.0°C. Pressure: 30.22 in 1023 hPa (Steady).
20:39 rambutan well, it's heavy snow
20:40 rgbv Hi, we've just upgraded to 3.10.3 and we want to suppress the Hourly Loans, hours and minutes from display (in Due date etc) in the staff client? is there a syspref for this?
20:40 rangi not that im aware of, but i might be missing something
20:41 rangi they should all be saying 23:59 ?
20:41 rgbv yep 23:59, its distracting...
20:42 rangi afaik there is no syspref to hide it, it is a good idea tho
20:43 cait I would love a way to hide it
20:46 maximep putting 23:59 wasn't the bert solution -_-
20:46 maximep *best
20:47 cait rgbv: I think you could maybe hide it with jquery
20:49 rgbv right I'll brush up on my jquery, it's not as straight forward as other suppress ions, cheers cait
20:50 cait joined #koha
20:50 cait oups
20:59 magnus joined #koha
21:09 rangi new developer :)
21:09 magnus yay!
21:10 rangi and 3 more waiting for sign off
21:11 magnus new people at catalyst?
21:11 rangi i ran a session for anyone who wanted to learn about koha yesterday
21:11 cait rangi++
21:11 rangi 7 patches from 5 ppl :)
21:12 magnus yeah rangi++
21:20 Viktor joined #koha
21:20 * magnus will try and signoff 1 or 2 of those when he gets his emergency running-off-usb-stick setup ready
21:21 * magnus waves at Viktor
21:21 * Viktor waves back :)
21:21 magnus :-)
21:22 Viktor I can't find "Moderate purchase suggestions" in set permissions. Am I looking in the wrong place or is it just something for a RFC?
21:24 cait Viktor: what do you want to do? :)
21:24 wizzyrea the first question
21:24 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
21:24 wizzyrea you probably want to look under acqusitions
21:24 wizzyrea acquisitions*
21:24 cait I think suggestions has no single permission
21:25 wizzyrea no, it doesn't
21:25 cait it could have one
21:25 wizzyrea yea
21:25 Viktor I find "moderate patron tags" and "moderate patron comments" but not that :)
21:25 wizzyrea because patron suggestions are not really like those things.
21:26 wizzyrea at least in my mind they're not
21:26 wizzyrea other patrons never see them, you only process them
21:26 wizzyrea staff only
21:26 wizzyrea staff with acquisitions permission
21:26 cait yep
21:26 magnus (unless you turn on the syspref for public suggestions...)
21:26 Viktor The way many libraries work here we have one librarian who has the right to handle purchase suggestions so we might want to be able to limit access to it.
21:27 Viktor Right you are wizzyrea.
21:27 cait Viktor: I think enhancement requests
21:27 cait request
21:28 wizzyrea only if having acquisitions permissions for that user isn't granular enough
21:28 cait I think one would probably need to update the permissions and activate it by default for staff with acq perms on update
21:28 wizzyrea like, if you want someone to do acquisitions but not do purchase suggestions?
21:28 wizzyrea but really, to me, that sounds like a human problem.
21:28 Viktor It's not such a big thing since only people working in acquisitions see it. But for larger libraries it might be god. For us it will be one and the same person.
21:29 Viktor Sorry: it might be _good_
21:29 wizzyrea i.e. tell the librarians who do acq but don't do suggestions "don't bother with suggestions"
21:29 Viktor wizzyrea True.
21:30 wizzyrea in my mind, there's not a lot you can really *hurt* by processing a suggestion - worst thing is you might send out an erroneous email to a patron - regrettable, but not deleting the whole catalogue.
21:31 Viktor The thing is that I am thinking about some sort of profile system for the long run where all tasks are mapped to specified people.
21:31 wizzyrea we do need to have some kind of role management in koha, that is true
21:31 Viktor So that when the one responsible hasn't responded to purchase suggestions, tags, comments etc for the specified limit the system notifies the "second in command"
21:32 Viktor Aha - I guess role management is what I should write a enhancement request for :) Thanks wizzyrea
21:33 cait Viktor: I think staff councils here would not like that
21:33 wizzyrea and what I mean by role management is "sets of permissions that define a role in koha"
21:34 Viktor cait - would it be ok if it's opt in?
21:34 wizzyrea such as "cataloguer" or "acquisitions/cataloguer" or "circulation clerk"
21:34 cait it should definitely be opt in to send such mails - but I am not sure it#s a feature I would like much
21:34 * wizzyrea either
21:35 Viktor cait wizzyrea - Interesting! I guess it might be problematic if people felt that they are not trusted to do their job proerly.
21:36 cait yep
21:37 Viktor But I have a library that has a management who has policies for how long things are allowed to take regarding user feedback. There it would be great to be able to catch the stuff that's forgotten when the one person who does a task breaks a leg or gets sick.
21:37 cait i think then you need to have rules for who is responsible when someone breaks a leg :)
21:37 cait sounds more like an organisational problem to me
21:38 wizzyrea ^^ what she said
21:38 Viktor :)
21:38 laurence joined #koha
21:38 cait if the scheduler worked... you could probably implement such warnings
21:38 cait with reports
21:38 cait which reminds me that this patch is waiting for qa
21:39 wizzyrea or you could use the reports to show you the oldest suggestions on the home page.
21:39 Viktor cait wizzyrea Well it's cheaper at least to solve it that way. And less intrusive. But I tend to seek technonogical solutions :) Oh well.
21:39 wizzyrea :) yea, that's a trap we've all fallen into
21:40 Viktor :)
21:40 wizzyrea it's how we ended up with
21:40 wizzyrea quote 123?
21:40 wizzyrea @quote get 123
21:40 wahanui
21:40 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
21:40 magnus hehe
21:40 maximep left #koha
21:41 mib_giy3zc joined #koha
21:41 alohabot Hi mib_giy3zc, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
21:42 * magnus wonders why Bug 7938 is in discussion
21:42 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7938 normal, P5 - low, ---, frederic, In Discussion , The -v option to the translate script is not documented
21:42 mib_giy3zc Hi I am a library science student in Pennsylvania trying to complete an assignment. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if any type of hardware is needed for this software and what it is
21:43 cait maybe misunderstanding about how status works?
21:43 rangi do i get credit for your assignment if i do?
21:43 mib_giy3zc sure
21:43 cjh heh
21:43 mib_giy3zc or if anyone could just point me in the direction
21:44 rangi the answer to your question is, how long is a piece of string
21:44 rangi basically you need a lot more info before you decide on the hardware you want to run
21:44 rangi how many transactions a day is your library going to do, how many bibliographic records etc
21:45 wizzyrea koha can run on raspberry pi's - not well, but it will work. People have run it on PS2's, also.
21:45 wizzyrea I don't advise it
21:45 mib_giy3zc Okay thank you for your help.
21:45 wizzyrea if it helps you, I had a 9k item library open 3 days a week, koha was running on a P4 with 1GB of RAM and it worked just fine.
21:46 wizzyrea hrmph.
21:46 rangi i despair for our future
21:50 Viktor Hardware is interesting - is it the amount of simultaneous users or the type of work the server has to do that takes the highest toll?
21:51 rangi both
21:51 fredy joined #koha
21:52 Viktor rangi Linear curve? Or will the load go exponential? (Server management isn't really my core area of expertise)
21:53 rangi its never linear, bottlenecks compound
21:53 rangi basically though, more RAM is the answer to pretty much every problem
21:54 * magnus signs off Bug 7938 anyway - so there!
21:54 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7938 normal, P5 - low, ---, frederic, Signed Off , The -v option to the translate script is not documented
21:55 rangi yay !
21:55 cait heh
21:56 rangi i suspect will's finger slipped is all
21:57 magnus probably
21:57 magnus oh well, time to call it a night
21:57 magnus have fun #koha!
21:57 rangi cya magnus
21:57 trea o/
21:59 Viktor rangi Thanks - RAM is always nice. Keeping the whole DB in RAM should work wonders I guess.
22:02 Viktor Well. Night folks! Thanks for the help!
22:02 rangi cya Viktor
22:03 wizzyrea later :)
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