IRC log for #koha, 2012-10-19

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:05 eythian joined #koha
00:08 drojf shouldn't bug 8701 be set to failed QA or something? seems like a change is expected, not a sign off
00:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8701 normal, P5 - low, ---, sandbergja, Needs Signoff , Help for OpacHiddenItems pref should not point to text in install directory
00:09 rangi in discussion maybe
00:09 rangi id like to encourage her, first patch and all
00:10 drojf or that. don't want to discourage her, but needs sign off is slightly confusing :)
00:10 rangi yep
00:11 rangi in discussion is probably good
00:11 * rangi goes for lunch
00:11 papa joined #koha
00:34 * drojf goes to bed
00:39 Irma joined #koha
00:41 stefan-l joined #koha
00:52 BobB joined #koha
01:00 drojf1 joined #koha
01:01 drojf joined #koha
01:22 srikanth joined #koha
01:24 kathryn joined #koha
01:39 stefan-l_ joined #koha
01:43 stefan-l joined #koha
02:00 stefan-l joined #koha
02:19 stefan-l joined #koha
03:15 stefan-l_ left #koha
03:15 libsysguy joined #koha
03:27 Oak joined #koha
03:31 Oak kia ora #koha
03:32 wajasu hiya
03:32 Irma1 joined #koha
04:03 cjh mtj: thanks for the signoff
04:04 cjh jcamins_away: if you have some time I would like to hear your opinions re: my notes on[…]g.cgi?id=3652#c36
04:04 huginn Bug 3652: critical, P1 - high, ---, chrish, Signed Off , XSS vulnerabilities
04:09 mtj heya chris
04:09 mtj well, goods news is that the jscript popup hack doesnt seem to work for me, on chrome or ff.16
04:10 mtj oops, it just did on ff.16 :/
04:10 cjh ff 16 it should work before the patch, not after.
04:11 cjh chrome it never worked for me, chrome is too smart..
04:12 cait joined #koha
04:12 mtj yep, thats right for me, yr patch fixes it on ff.16
04:12 cjh awesome :)
04:13 mtj d00d, thats a well crazy hack :p
04:13 cjh heh, sadly quotes were always escaped so I couldnt say anything interesting.
04:14 mtj choccy fish in the mail
04:16 cjh heh, maybe we should start a Koha choccy-fish-fund.
04:16 cjh heading home, have a good weekend/weekday everyone :)
04:16 mtj cool, have a good one
04:24 wajasu cjh: funny, i was just testing 3652 on 3.6.x branch.
04:26 cait have a nice weekend nz :)
04:31 mtj thanx cait
04:32 mtj ive been sick for 2 weeks, looking forward to a beer this weekend
04:32 wajasu rangi: 3652 is now signed off for 3.8.x (shall i continue against 3.6.x and master)?
04:32 cait mtj: glad you feel better
04:36 mtj wajasu, hmm i actually tested those against master
04:36 mtj so, i might flick the version to reflect that
04:39 wajasu but did cjh test against master is the question
04:40 wajasu for his 1st two patches
04:41 wajasu i had to reconcile his 1st patch for 3.6.x
04:42 mtj he prolly tested against 3.8
04:44 mtj a quick eyeball (and some testing) says the difference is zero between versions
04:44 wajasu between 3.8.x and master, right?
04:45 mtj yep
04:47 wajasu ok, i will just attach my reconciled patch for 3.6.x for the 1st patch, and apply/test against master, and comment at the bottom.
04:47 mtj hopefully we'll get the the XSS stuff sorted into 3.8/3.6 in the next few days
05:14 wajasu i'm not going to comment. it will only confuse folks.  so i am bailing out on this for now.
06:26 rangi wajasu: yes he did
06:27 rangi everyone should always test and develop against master
06:27 rangi then it gets cherry picked back
06:27 rangi the rmmaints will ask for version specific patches if they are needed
06:27 rangi but signoffs should be against master
06:32 alex_a bonjour tout le monde
06:35 magnuse bonjour alex_a
06:36 asaurat joined #koha
06:44 sophie_m joined #koha
06:44 reiveune joined #koha
06:44 reiveune hello
06:45 mbalmer joined #koha
06:45 mbalmer left #koha
06:48 julian_m joined #koha
06:52 Oak joined #koha
06:53 Maxie2012 joined #koha
06:59 Maxie2012 Hi!  I am very interested to install Koha (have already downloaded Ver 3.8.05), but am new to Koha and the Linux environment. I am also looking to host it on a Cloud platform - currently sourcing for a suitable vendor/site, and already have a trial site to install Koha.  However, I have no idea how to start!  Can anybody help me please??
07:00 Maxie2012 I wasn't even able to Unpack the Koha package that I downloaded...
07:10 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:10 gaetan_B hello
07:20 francharb joined #koha
07:21 francharb hello #koha
07:43 kf joined #koha
07:47 WaylonR joined #koha
07:48 WaylonR Hey all. just thought....  MultiBranch "assigning multiple branches to a patron" is a seperate concept to MultiBranchSelect "Allow searching of multiple branches from advanced search (without categories)" yes?
07:49 Viktor joined #koha
07:49 Viktor Hi!
07:49 WaylonR hmm .maybe not seperate concept, but requiring of a different Syspref?
07:50 WaylonR its possible that some libraries who don't want to use the multibranchuser feature, want the multibranchselect feature?
07:50 Viktor Just popping in with a question: do we have two-step verification during login to staff that I don't know of?
07:50 julian_m joined #koha
07:51 WaylonR as far as i know Viktor .. just the user/pass/ip restriction system.
07:51 WaylonR or LDAP.
07:51 Viktor Thansk WaylonR Thinking about setting up a RFC for that but would be akward if I just missed whats there :)
07:52 Viktor I think it would be a good idea to make users login in from new IPs answer a security question, reply to an e-mail or something like that.
07:53 Viktor Especially if they try to log in from a new geographical area. Users often select not so good passwords :)
07:55 magnuse Viktor: it's possible to restrict access to the staff client to a set of IP adresses (but i have not checked it actually works)
07:56 magnuse other than that it's just plain username/password
07:56 rangi you can restrict at the firewall too, or in apache
07:56 magnuse Viktor: you are thinking of staff users, right?
07:56 Viktor Thanks rangi & magnuse
07:57 magnuse or patrons in the opac too?
07:58 Viktor I think it would be good for patrons too actually. It shows that the library takes their privacy seriously. But for opac it should be optional for the users - they move around much more than staff.
07:58 Viktor I know people love the idea of being able to log in from home, but many have dynamic IPs.
07:59 Viktor So: added security for staff users who arrive frow weird new IPs is my top priority.
08:00 Viktor While still keeping it accessible from the public net.
08:00 sophie_m joined #koha
08:00 magnuse cool
08:00 magnuse some kind of temporary ip restriction, then
08:01 paul_p joined #koha
08:02 magnuse if the current ip restriction in koha works for the staff client, it shouldn't be too hard to add new ones and require email verification before they are usable, i think
08:02 Viktor Nice - magnuse
08:03 Viktor So we just add the possibility of lifting the restriction by doing something like email verification, security question and so on(?) I like that.
08:03 magnuse i think of it as temporarily adding a new ip to the allowed IPs, but yeah something like that
08:04 Viktor If we do get additional funding that might be something we want to have created in 2013. I´ll take notes in Pivotal and add it to the list.
08:04 magnuse yay
08:06 Viktor Thanks guys! I´ll have to up the blood sugar level now - time for coffebreak :)
08:07 kf oh
08:07 kf now I missed Viktor
08:07 magnuse he didn't log off, though
08:08 magnuse Viktor: have a look at http://manual.koha-community.o[…]html#AutoLocation for current ip restriction functionality
08:15 gerundio joined #koha
08:20 druthb joined #koha
08:20 julian_m joined #koha
08:25 drojf good day #koha
08:26 magnuse kia ora drojf!
08:27 drojf hei magnuse :)
08:28 magnuse drojf++ for another signoff
08:29 drojf did i sleepwalk-signoff again? :)
08:29 drojf ah yes the alphabet. it's a cool patch!
08:30 drojf i'm all for making stuff work for crazy scripts and languages
08:31 drojf s/crazy/cool/
08:31 magnuse crazy = cool :-)
08:32 WaylonR crazy == cool ? yes : no
08:35 drojf windows 8 is due in a few days. cool. may it bring us lots of new linux users :)
08:36 magnuse lol
08:38 WaylonR windows8--
08:38 WaylonR windows8?
08:38 WaylonR karma?
08:38 WaylonR solr?
08:38 wahanui solr is fast, really fast, faster than me! And koha wiki has a page about it, found at[…]ene_Documentation
08:38 WaylonR good...
08:39 WaylonR windows8 is due in a few days, may it bring us lots of new linux users. :)
08:39 WaylonR windows8?
08:39 wahanui windows8 is due in a few days, may it bring us lots of new linux users. :)
08:39 WaylonR wahanui, help
08:39 WaylonR karma for windows8?
08:39 wahanui windows8 has karma of -1
08:39 WaylonR guys.... this needs some karma swing here.
08:39 drojf i bet that is going to decrease a lot more
08:40 * WaylonR idly wonders.
08:40 WaylonR karma for WaylonR
08:40 wahanui waylonr has neutral karma
08:40 WaylonR karma for Waylon
08:40 wahanui waylon has karma of 1
08:40 WaylonR ah.
08:40 WaylonR karma for PTFS
08:40 wahanui ptfs has karma of -7
08:40 WaylonR karma for liblime
08:40 wahanui liblime has karma of -5
08:40 WaylonR hmmm...
08:40 WaylonR karma for siridynix
08:40 wahanui siridynix has neutral karma
08:41 WaylonR ... im spelling it wrong/
08:41 magnuse karme for sirsidynix
08:41 WaylonR ahh
08:41 magnuse karma for sirsidynix
08:41 wahanui sirsidynix has neutral karma
08:41 WaylonR huh.
08:42 Viktor joined #koha
08:42 magnuse Viktor: have a look at http://manual.koha-community.o[…]html#AutoLocation for current ip restriction functionality
08:43 Viktor Thanks magnuse
08:44 Viktor (Lost the connection while I was away so I can't see if there was other stuff said)
08:44 Irma joined #koha
08:46 WaylonR didn't miss much. only us askign the bot about windows8.
08:46 WaylonR windows8?
08:46 wahanui i think windows8 is due in a few days, may it bring us lots of new linux users. :)
08:48 Viktor I like that MS have dared to move away from the traditional interface, but I really hope people won't try to use touchscreens on desktop.
08:48 drojf is it too much self-praise to nominate koha for the free software award for projects of social benefit?
08:48 WaylonR karma for koha?
08:48 wahanui koha has karma of -44
08:48 WaylonR karma for koha-community?
08:48 wahanui koha-community has neutral karma
08:48 kf hm it depends on who does it maybe? I am not sure how that works
08:49 WaylonR karma for community-koha?
08:49 wahanui community-koha has neutral karma
08:49 rangi @karma koha
08:49 huginn rangi: Karma for "koha" has been increased 33 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of 30.
08:49 WaylonR ah.. two karma dbs.
08:50 WaylonR drojf, think it would be fine, honestly. as long as theres no rule about it.
08:50 drojf[…]e-software-awards
08:52 mtj WaylonR, only huginn runs the karma plugin, wahanui is just chatting to you...
08:52 magnuse logs?
08:52 wahanui i heard logs was
08:52 magnuse that was for Viktor :-)
08:53 drojf that are some big names that got that award before :) maybe we are not as important to mankind as tor or cc
08:53 magnuse and Viktor, getting a good irc client like xchat or something will save you some frustrations in the long run :-)
08:54 magnuse drojf: libraries are important, and we help libraries :-)
08:55 Viktor magnuse - Yep :) But I'm currently on my work computer that is lock-down galore.
08:55 magnuse woohoo!
08:56 drojf magnuse: that was my thought. koha enables people and institutions to use professional library automation that would not have had that opportunity without (this piece of) free software
08:56 mtj oops, wahanui is running a karma plugin too?!
08:56 WaylonR drojf, id suggest finding a library that would nom us.
08:56 magnuse drojf: yup! and we can find lots and lots of places where koha is bringing state of the art library tech to places that could not afford it with proprietary systems
08:57 magnuse karma for koha?
08:57 wahanui koha has karma of -44
08:57 magnuse karma for koha?
08:57 wahanui koha has karma of -44
08:57 magnuse at least it's consistent
09:00 kf WaylonR: well, drojf is a library :P
09:01 WaylonR well. there you go then.
09:01 drojf oh, that's right lol
09:01 Maxie2012 joined #koha
09:01 WaylonR drojf, nom community-koha
09:06 Maxie2012 Hi!  Was wondering if anybody can help me?  I'm new to Koha and Linux but would like to install Koha onto a cloud based server and really need help on how to start...I posted this earlier but my connection dropped, so I'm not sure if anyone sent me a response....sorry:(
09:09 Oak joined #koha
09:09 Maxie2012 I have downloaded the Ver 3.8.05 package, but have not been able to unpack it as I'm not on Linux, but on a Windows 7 environment.  I am assuming I need to be in Linux to unpack?
09:10 drojf Maxie2012: is windows running on your server?
09:11 Maxie2012 Yes....well, technically speaking I downloaded it to my desktop PC...
09:12 Maxie2012 I am in the process of engaging someone to host a server for me to install Koha on
09:12 drojf Maxie2012: so you do not have a server yet?
09:13 kf Maxie2012: you can only install koha under windows. You could unapck it with the right tool, but it would not work
09:13 kf so if you only wanted to take a look at the files and install text files that is ok in windows, but for installing you need a linux environment of some kind
09:13 gerundio drojf, hi, back today and working to submit the patch
09:13 drojf Maxie2012: you would want your server to run debian gnu/linux. debian squeeze to be precise. you would log into your server via ssh and do the installation there. you cannot use koha on windows at all
09:13 drojf gerundio: cool! thanks for your work
09:14 magnuse kf did probably not mean to say "you can only install koha under windows"...
09:14 gerundio all I have to do is follow those instructions in the page you sent me yesterday, right?[…]_bz_configuration
09:14 kf oups
09:14 kf yep typo
09:14 kf sorry
09:14 kf only under linux!!
09:14 magnuse :-)
09:15 gerundio I'm under linux :)
09:15 drojf gerundio: yes
09:17 gerundio but 1st off I need to checkout a git clone, right?
09:18 Maxie2012 No, I do not have the server yet.  I have been trying to go through whatever documentation available on the web, including, so as to understand the hardware/software requirements.
09:18 drojf gerundio: oh i thought you would have been working with git already. one sec
09:18 gerundio not really, I was trying out with a test installation :)
09:19 gerundio[…]oha_Dev_Env_Setup
09:19 gerundio this is it, right?
09:19 drojf gerundio:[…]Control_Using_Git
09:19 mtj Maxie2012, i use for Koha hosting , they are great
09:19 Maxie2012 I am currently trying to engage someone to host a Linux server for me and I have even specified that I want Debian.
09:20 cjh linode are fantastic.
09:20 drojf Maxie2012: that is good. then you would either have to wait until you have it, or try koha in a virtual machine running debian on top of your windows system before you have the server ready
09:21 Maxie2012 Where is based?  Would they have an issue supporting me way out here in Singapore?
09:22 cjh Maxie2012: they have various sites
09:23 cjh they will give you a linux server you can ssh to (connect remotely), from this you can install Koha yourself.
09:25 mtj i have one in tokyo, works perfect
09:26 Maxie2012 Ok...on top of Debian, I read that I need to download all the other software as well i.e. Apache, MySql, Perl etc?
09:27 cjh Maxie2012: yes, once you have a server you may have to install those. The debian package manager (apt-get) makes this easy though.
09:27 mtj if you use the debian package for Koha, it does all that for you
09:27 mtj # apt-get install koha-common
09:27 mtj finished....
09:28 mtj :)
09:28 drojf packages?
09:28 wahanui i guess packages is at
09:28 cjh[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
09:30 magnuse hm, i'm trying to activate the ccsr theme on master, based on instructions here:[…]g.cgi?id=8597#c60 but i get a lot of 404s for css and js files - anyone got any tips?
09:30 huginn Bug 8597: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Pushed to Master , New theme for the OPAC with a mobile view
09:30 mtj hey, this looks snazzy  ->[…]tory/Tutorial.pod
09:31 cjh oh wow.
09:31 mtj a perl module to manip a git repo
09:32 Maxie2012 sorry...I downloaded the koha-3.08.05.tar from the that the same as the debian package you are referring to?
09:32 drojf magnuse: from the comments one patch was missing at some point
09:33 mtj hmm, Maxie2012 what are you trying to do here?
09:33 magnuse drojf: i'm on uptodate master
09:33 mtj Maxie2012, are you attempting to install Koha on your windows pc? coz that wont work
09:34 magnuse Maxie2012: no, tar files and packages are different things
09:34 magnuse Maxie2012: see the wiki pages that were pointed out earliuer for info about the debian packages
09:35 Maxie2012 I said, I'm trying to engage someone to host a Linux server for me to install Koha on
09:35 drojf magnuse: weird, it says it was pushed. but the error sounds exactly like the one for the missing patch
09:36 cjh Maxie2012: the .tar file and the debian package both contain the same version of koha, the package is just better suited to installing on debian. If you want to look through it then the .tar is fine.
09:36 cjh Maxie2012: once you have a host (running debian) you can follow[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
09:39 Maxie2012 ok, great!  Will definitely take your advice on the package!
09:40 Maxie2012 One LAST question....does charge a lot for their hosting services?
09:41 cjh Maxie2012: scroll down to "Plans and availability" there start at 20USD/month.
09:41 magnuse Maxie2012: the prices are on their front page: :-)
09:42 cjh s/there/they/*
09:42 magnuse for just testing koha the cheapest one should be fine
09:42 drojf are you all using linode?
09:43 * magnuse is
09:43 * cjh is, but not for Koha
09:44 magnuse ah problem probably solved, i was trying to view the opac as nb-NO, guess i have to install translations
09:44 cjh magnuse: awesome!
09:44 drojf ah. i tried the theme once, but not with translation
09:46 drojf magnuse: i remember reading your first post a while ago about the young nerdy librarian wanting to offer koha on amazon. so you ditched that for linode eventually?
09:47 magnuse drojf: yup
09:47 drojf cool"
09:47 drojf cool!
09:47 drojf every step away from amazon is a step in the right direction :P
09:47 cjh heh
09:48 magnuse drojf: aws is probably awesome when you need more servers, failovers etc. but the way i parsed it, it's not ideal when all you want is a single server
09:49 cjh I dont like how they do their pricing either.
09:49 drojf magnuse: to be honest did not even understand half the stuff i read about aws. "what if i just want a server" was exactly what i was thinking when i had a look at what they offer
09:50 Viktor joined #koha
09:50 cjh for a small website aws just feels like it would be one web crawler away from backruptcy
09:50 drojf lol
09:51 magnuse drojf: well, you can do it, but you have to think about a lot of bits and pieces, ebs for persitent disk space, s3 for backup etc etc - i have not follewed that closely fr a couple years now
09:51 drojf also, *cough*evil corporation*cough*
09:52 drojf i would prefer to invest my thinking into other stuff
09:53 Maxie2012 Wow!  Thanks all for the info....really helped a lot :)
09:53 drojf \o/
09:53 drojf too late
09:53 drojf but still
09:53 cjh nawww
09:53 cjh o/*\o
09:53 drojf :)
09:53 magnuse hehe
09:58 modabber joined #koha
10:00 alex_a_ joined #koha
10:01 magnuse ah, not quite that simple - had to run "perl translate create nb-NO; perl translate install nb-NO" as decribed here:[…]ug.cgi?id=8633#c6 but now the new theme works for nb-NO too. and there is more translation work to do, it seems...
10:01 huginn Bug 8633: normal, P5 - low, ---, frederic, Pushed to Master , Translate script hardcoded to prog template
10:03 modabber hi
10:03 wahanui salut, modabber
10:04 modabber i am facing problem in setting permission for kohauser in debian
10:13 vkm joined #koha
10:14 vkm please help i have created folder and given link from opacheader but it does not work the link is[…]s/book_indent.doc
10:15 vkm​g/www/docs/book_indent.doc
10:16 vkm www folder created in prog folder where images, en folders are there
10:16 gerundio joined #koha
10:20 mtj vkm, what are you trying to do?
10:20 mtj and, that url does not work for me
10:21 vkm i have created one link from opac to my save file which can be open by the users
10:24 vkm the file is saved in the koha server itself
10:24 vkm it is on LAN
10:26 mtj does this link work for you ?
10:26 mtj in a browser?
10:27 mtj hav you checked the permissions of the dir/file, etc?
10:27 vkm where
10:27 mtj have you looked in the apache log to see why its failing?
10:28 modabber it is on lan
10:28 vkm image which i have saved in image folder is working fine
10:29 mtj hmm, i dont know then… sorry :/
10:30 vkm but when given link to a created new folder it does not works
10:31 vkm i think if simply saved the file without creating folder it may work
10:32 vkm saved in default folders
10:35 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
10:35 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 16.0°C (12:13 PM CEST on October 19, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Falling).
10:36 slef livecd?
10:36 wahanui livecd is here
10:37 slef wahanui: thanks
10:37 wahanui my pleasure slef
10:37 modabber sorry
10:38 modabber i am uing koha, installed in debian
10:38 slef modabber: don't be sorry. I was talking to wahanui
10:38 modabber i am manually giving indext command from the root user
10:38 modabber only then it works
10:39 modabber but cron job is not working as kohasau which is the kohauser
10:42 nengard joined #koha
10:45 magnuse @arewethereyet
10:45 huginn magnuse: YES!
10:45 magnuse guess it depends on your definition of "there", huginn
10:46 magnuse the dashboard says "2012-10-22 - Release date for 3.10.0" - that should be 2012-11-22, right?
10:46 mtj yep :)
10:46 magnuse ta
10:47 mtj oops, i think it is 2012-10-22
10:47 mtj ie: 3 days time
10:47 magnuse gah, better start translating or something then :-)
10:48 magnuse mtj: you're kidding, right?
10:49 mtj aah, delayed 1 month ->[…]-august-2012/#310
10:49 mtj so 2012-11-22…. not 2012-10-22
10:51 magnuse phew
11:02 nengard joined #koha
11:08 Viktor joined #koha
11:12 WaylonR moby++
11:12 WaylonR sorry, completely unrelated.. but omg.. coding to moby...
11:20 gerundio joined #koha
11:29 jwagner joined #koha
11:42 NateC joined #koha
11:46 gerundio drojf, I was looking at[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7973
11:46 huginn Bug 7973: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, In Discussion , Allow for new type of LDAP authentication
11:46 gerundio the reported bug which I've worked to come up with a new patch
11:47 gerundio can I simply just submit a new attachment there for revision?
11:57 magnuse anyone else tried the ccsr theme with translations?
11:58 kf magnuse: there was a patch
11:58 kf to fix the translation scripts
11:58 kf becasue they won't take them into account right now I think - not sur eif it has been pushed
11:58 kf magnuse: some things will probably not work, some things are in the css I think :(
11:59 magnuse yeah, but i'm getting this nastiness: Could not create file parser context for file "/home/magnus/kohahead/koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/c​csr/nb-NO/xslt/NORMARCslim2OPACResults.xsl": No such file or directory at /home/magnus/kohahead/C4/ line 218
11:59 magnuse it works for english, but not when i switch to norwegian
11:59 magnuse i get that error when i try to search
12:06 Markus joined #koha
12:14 kf magnuse: ah, I think you figured it out - missing part in the translation script probably?
12:15 magnuse kf: probably, but i don't really have the time to investigate further now
12:16 jcamins_away magnuse: are you sure you're on latest master?
12:16 magnuse jcamins_away: yup
12:16 jcamins_away Hm.
12:16 jcamins_away The last theming patch, the one that Paul pushed a week after the others, was to deal with that problem.
12:18 magnuse jcamins_away: this one? commit 6a4cbbba6095791926d925cb14bd286dea16c835 Bug 8633 Manage OPAC alternate templates
12:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8633 normal, P5 - low, ---, frederic, Pushed to Master , Translate script hardcoded to prog template
12:18 jcamins_away No.
12:19 jcamins_away Something about XSLT fallbacks.
12:19 oleonard joined #koha
12:19 jcamins_away ccsr doesn't have XSLTs.
12:19 jcamins_away (by design)
12:19 jcamins_away I'll give it a quick poke.
12:19 magnuse yay
12:20 magnuse this? commit 33113e69c0eb2faccceb917ce19e26225259df8d Bug 8622: Fix theme fallback
12:20 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8622 major, P3, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Koha themes broken
12:21 jcamins_away That's the one.
12:22 magnuse it shows up in git log...
12:24 jcamins_away I'm installing nb-NO now.
12:24 magnuse woohoo! ;-)
12:24 oleonard Hi #koha
12:25 magnuse kia ora oleonard
12:27 jcamins_away I confirm the bug.
12:28 magnuse yay, sort of...
12:28 jcamins_away Fixed it.
12:29 jcamins_away Some of the fallback logic was backwards.
12:29 tcohen joined #koha
12:29 magnuse jcamins++
12:30 tcohen morning #koha
12:31 magnuse jcamins_away: if you do a patch i'll sign off real quick :-)
12:31 jcamins_away I'm preparing the patch now.
12:31 jcamins_away And eating pear bread.
12:31 jcamins_away (which is delicious)
12:31 magnuse bread with pear in it, or shaped like a pear?
12:31 jcamins_away Bread with pear in it.
12:31 magnuse ah
12:37 jcamins_away Patch attached.
12:39 * magnuse will test
12:40 drojf @later tell gerundio yes, i would attach the patch to that bug. make sure to obsolete the other patch (remove the # when attaching your patch) if yours is completely rewritten and not just a followup based on the other
12:40 huginn drojf: The operation succeeded.
12:49 * jcamins_away heads into the city.
12:58 magnuse jcamins_away: signed off - thanks for a quick response!
13:07 gerundio joined #koha
13:07 drojf is michael stephens some kind of library vip? "librarian, blogger" does not sound too amazing by itself. i'm starting to get annoyed by a lot of anouncements for a "tour" he seems to be doing in germany
13:09 oleonard Never heard of him.
13:17 drojf seems like nengard knows him
13:17 nengard yes I do
13:18 nengard and yes he is (in my opinion)
13:18 drojf magnuse: that's where i got that information ;) searching there for koha
13:22 WaylonR joined #koha
13:24 drojf1 joined #koha
13:24 drojf lousy unstable internet connection
13:25 WaylonR same
13:25 WaylonR wasn't just you
13:25 drojf lousy global internet connection
13:36 gerundio drojf, did you read my question before? almost 2 hours ago...
13:36 user220 joined #koha
13:36 drojf gerundio: yes, you should have received a message now :)
13:37 gerundio so how about it, could I just submit a new attachment for that bug?
13:38 drojf gerundio: yes, i would attach the patch to that bug. make sure to obsolete the other patch (remove the # when attaching your patch) if yours is completely rewritten and not just a followup based on the other
13:38 drojf (you should have gotten the same message as a pm from huginn by now)
13:38 gerundio its a complete rewrite :)
13:38 gerundio I did
13:38 gerundio thanks
13:38 maximep joined #koha
13:38 drojf then check for the "Obsolte patch xxx" line when attaching the patch
13:38 drojf obsolete even
13:39 drojf and uncomment it
13:39 gerundio my IRC connection drops when I'm away from the PC for 30+ minutes
13:39 drojf are you in mibbit?
13:39 gerundio so I didn't receive it the 1st time
13:39 drojf i think the webchat kicks you after some time
13:40 gerundio not really, Xchat, a regular IRC client for Windows
13:40 drojf oh. then that's weird
13:40 gerundio just my energy saving settings I guess :D
13:40 drojf ah :)
13:40 gerundio the PC goes to sleep when I'm afk
13:41 user220 the ping timeout irks me. I've prettly clearly nailed it down to my computer being unable to ping the oftc server after a certain period of time
13:42 user220 I suspect it's a power setting (vs screensaver), but I can't find any setting for it.
13:42 user220 It happens with different clients, both xchat and konversation
13:43 gerundio btw, the submited file should be a regular diff?
13:44 oleonard Patches attached to bugs should be generated by git
13:45 drojf gerundio: if you have set up git and git bz correctly it does all the magic for you when you 'git bz attach -e <bugnumber> HEAD'. i just attaches a diff for your changes
13:45 BigRig joined #koha
13:45 drojf also what oleonard says, if you attach a patch manually we will have problems testing it
13:46 oleonard Well, attaching the patch manually to the bug is fine as long as it is in the right format
13:46 oleonard Meaning you don't have to use git-bz if you don't want to, it just makes it easier
13:47 drojf ok, my only encounters with manually attached patches were those with problems :)
13:47 oleonard I'm assuming your problems were with the patches themselves rather than the way they were attached in Bugzilla
13:48 drojf nope, i'm talking about comments on the bugtracker asking developers to resubmit patches in the correct format
13:49 drojf i would not know about hundreds of manually attached patches that worked well of course :)
13:49 oleonard No one says "Please use git-bz to attach your patch rather than manually uploading a patch which you generated via git format-patch"
13:49 oleonard ...because how did we do it before git-bz? :)
13:51 drojf we carved it in stone? :)
13:52 drojf back in the days we even cave painted patches
13:54 drojf says drojf, having his first patch pushed somewhen around july 2012 :D
13:58 gerundio drojf, tried using git bz but I guess I don't have it correctly set
13:58 drojf what's happening?
13:59 drojf (or not happening?)
13:59 gerundio I'll just submit the patch file which I got with git diff and add the necessary comments
14:00 drojf i think you should do git format-patch as oleonard suggested
14:00 pastebot "gerundio" at pasted "this is what I got when I ran git gz" (21 lines) at
14:01 drojf that may be just the error when you need too long to save your file. wait
14:01 drojf yes
14:01 drojf[…]attach_-e_timeout
14:01 drojf you have to save the file faster, that's all
14:04 gerundio lolol, ok I'll try
14:04 drojf gerundio: it's a very common error, you only have like 5 seconds
14:05 drojf you can just try the git attach part again
14:05 oleonard It's very high-pressure hacking, like a scene from Swordfish
14:05 gerundio I just re-submitted
14:05 gerundio it worked
14:06 gerundio I'll just add a more complete comment in bug tracker directly
14:06 drojf you should also switch the status to "needs signoff2 when you do that
14:06 drojf without the 2
14:06 gerundio hmmm
14:06 gerundio it didn't work out quite as expected
14:07 gerundio the file submited is not even the correct one :(
14:07 oleonard Are you in the wrong branch gerundio?
14:07 drojf did you commit your changes in git?
14:08 oleonard nengard++ # for documentation patches
14:08 gerundio I just used "git clone git://"
14:08 nengard :) thanks oleonard
14:08 nengard still not done with the 3.10 manual, but getting as much of it in to the help files as I can
14:08 gerundio is it possible to remove that patch?
14:08 gerundio it has nothing to do with the changes I've made
14:09 drojf yes, you can obsolete the patch manually
14:09 drojf click on "details" for your attachment
14:10 drojf and on "edit details"
14:10 drojf there is a "obsolete" checkbox
14:10 drojf s/a/an/
14:10 gerundio done :D
14:11 drojf no worries, git is a little confusing in the beginning. you will get used to it :)
14:12 user220 left #koha
14:12 drojf so you just cloned?
14:12 drojf you should open a new branch for your bug. i use the bug number for that. something like "git checkout -b bug_7379 origin/master"
14:13 drojf then you get a branch to play with. do your changes there. when you are done, commit your changed files wit "git commit -a" for all or "git commit <filename>" for each file
14:15 gerundio drojf, I'm still a SVN guy
14:15 drojf gerundio:[…]_Git#Do_some_work might help. it also describes how your commit message is supposed to look
14:17 gerundio ok
14:17 gerundio 2nd try then :)
14:19 drojf good luck :)
14:20 oleonard Oh no, hide your children!
14:26 drojf nengard: i know i'm annoying, but is there a reason why the bywater twitter links all hop through a multitude of urls before they reach
14:27 drojf i would click your links with a lot more passion if i would not have to say "hello google" several times per click ;)
14:27 nengard Hmmm ? they shouldn't do that anymore
14:27 nengard I thought I turned off the feedburner redirecting
14:27 nengard it's because of the services we're using to post to twitter automatically
14:27 nengard I'll need to look in to it later though cause today is help file day :)
14:27 drojf thanks :)
14:33 kf hm
14:33 kf best installation manual for settng up the cronjobs?
14:33 kf zebra?
14:33 wahanui zebra is, like, a fielded free text indexing and retrieval engine with a Z39.50 front-end. You can use any compatible, commercial, or freeware Z39.50 client to access data stored in Zebra. or the search engine koha uses
14:34 kf :)
14:35 kf I should phrase a proper question I guess :) where are currently sending people installing koha that have to set up the cronjob for reindexing?
14:35 * kf checks the wiki
14:35 drojf to install the packages so they do it for them? :P
14:35 kf ah
14:36 kf I am looking for this centos installation...
14:36 drojf centosß you know strange people :D
14:36 kf lol
14:36 kf yeah
14:36 drojf s/ß/?/
14:36 kf this seems not up to date:
14:36 kf[…]ion_Documentation
14:39 kf hm
14:39 kf[…]-_git#Setup_Zebra
14:40 drojf[…]#Set_up_cron_jobs
14:45 kf not very helpful :)
14:45 kf or different
14:48 kf i will sent the mail to you in cc
14:58 sekjal joined #koha
14:58 rambutan cuba. Interesting
15:01 oleonard rambutan: ?
15:04 reiveune bye
15:04 reiveune left #koha
15:13 * wizzyrea waves
15:14 rambutan oleonard: post to koha-dev
15:15 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
15:15 drojf hey wizzyrea
15:15 wahanui rumour has it wizzyrea is a Cylon, and they all have plans
15:15 drojf lol
15:16 gerundio drojf, just followed all the instructions you gave me before
15:17 pastebot "gerundio" at pasted "Bug 7379 attachment" (7 lines) at
15:17 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7379 normal, P3, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , copynumber is displayed 'as is' when linked to autorised values
15:17 drojf gerundio: cool, did something explode?
15:17 gerundio not really, everything seems to go smooth this time
15:17 gerundio check that paste
15:18 gerundio it's the output of the git bz attach command
15:18 drojf err, wrong bug number :)
15:18 gerundio but still, the attachment didn't show up in the bugtracker :D
15:18 drojf it did
15:18 drojf at some other bug
15:18 gerundio arghhhhhhh
15:18 kf oh
15:19 kf I just wrote a comment
15:19 drojf heh. happens
15:19 * kf hands gerundio a chocolate chip cookie
15:19 kf we have all been there already
15:19 kf (variious times...)
15:19 wizzyrea oh yes, so many times.
15:20 jcamins wizzyrea: have you packed your supply of the horrifying dairy substitute that is our national "cheese"?
15:20 gerundio fixed
15:20 wizzyrea i'm realizing there are lots of things "american" that I don't eat.
15:20 wizzyrea so, no.
15:20 gerundio kf, I bet you did... :)
15:20 kf gerundio: you can mark it obsolete - so noone will stumble upon it :)
15:21 gerundio just did that on the other bug
15:21 jcamins wizzyrea: but horrifying dairy substitute is excellent!
15:21 gerundio and added a comment
15:21 rambutan something wrong with velveta?
15:21 kf cool
15:21 wizzyrea um...
15:21 wizzyrea it's not cheese?
15:21 jcamins It's... just like cheese, except without any of its advantages and with all its disadvantages.
15:21 oleonard wizzyrea: conversely, it's remarkably difficult to think of an American food one would want to bring as a gift to another country
15:21 gerundio[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7379 ... is that ok kf?
15:21 huginn Bug 7379: normal, P3, ---, adrien.saurat, Pushed to Master , copynumber is displayed 'as is' when linked to autorised values
15:22 drojf looks fine to me
15:22 wizzyrea oleonard: yes!
15:22 gerundio ok, so now the patch looks fine and I hope it gets approved
15:22 wizzyrea oleonard: only beer, and they are a bit titchy about that kind of stuff (especially in kansas with our completely bizarre liquor laws(
15:23 alex_a_ left #koha
15:23 jcamins oleonard: I generally go with fudge.
15:23 oleonard jcamins: especially since you make it yourself
15:23 jcamins wizzyrea: Kansas has bizarre liquor laws?
15:23 rambutan sure it is. if it isn't, blame the Swiss.
15:23 wizzyrea i'm not sure you could get that through customs
15:23 jcamins oleonard: well, yeah. Sometimes I make brownies, though.
15:24 kf gerundio: looks good
15:24 drojf gerundio: have you attached it to the correct bug number?
15:24 * wizzyrea doesn't consider it cheese. It has more than 5 ingredients. :P
15:24 drojf ah its UTC. i was confused about the time
15:24 wizzyrea cheese should have milk, salt, acid, maybe color.
15:24 rambutan highly nutritious. American Medical Association seal of approval.
15:24 drojf gerundio: one last thing
15:24 gerundio tell me about it
15:24 kf wizzyrea: I heard peanut butter was a good gift
15:24 wizzyrea :)
15:24 drojf gerundio: you did not use the -e option so you have to manually obsolete the old patch
15:24 wizzyrea yea, it is
15:25 gerundio ok ok
15:25 kf :)
15:25 gerundio on my way to do it now :)
15:25 gerundio done
15:26 drojf gerundio++
15:26 drojf now we have to find somebody with an ldap setup to test that :/
15:27 jcamins wizzyrea: what about Murcia al Vino?
15:27 wizzyrea ok wine is also an acceptable ingredient ;)
15:27 wahanui okay, wizzyrea.
15:28 wizzyrea wine?
15:28 wahanui wine is an acceptable ingredient ;)
15:28 wizzyrea LOL!
15:28 wizzyrea perfect.
15:28 oleonard No matter what the question.
15:28 wizzyrea ^^
15:28 wizzyrea What do I do if koha won't install?
15:28 drojf gerundio: sorry, another lastest last thing :D set the bug status to "needs signoff" so people find it :)
15:28 wizzyrea wine
15:28 wizzyrea wine?
15:28 wahanui wine is not usually the best for programming :)
15:28 wizzyrea LOL!
15:28 oleonard What does this module need. wine?
15:28 oleonard wine?
15:28 wahanui it has been said that wine is not usually the best for programming :)
15:29 asaurat left #koha
15:30 jcamins wine?
15:30 wahanui i think wine is an acceptable ingredient ;)
15:30 oleonard whine?
15:31 gerundio drojf, done... one even latest last thing :p should we raise the importance level for that a little bit?
15:32 drojf gerundio: it's an enhancement, AFAIK they have always that level because bugfixes are more important
15:33 sekjal
15:33 jcamins "Priority" is not currently used.
15:33 jcamins sekjal: hehe.
15:37 jcamins sekjal: are you working on a project that requires Balmer Peak levels of efficiency?
15:37 jcamins *Ballmer
15:37 sekjal jcamins: not right now
15:38 sekjal writing up my annual performance review at the moment
15:38 rambutan <- Win ME was the only operating system I could never get to shutdown properly on my Packard Bell. I always had to turn off the power supply. Strangly never trashed the filesystem, however.
15:39 jcamins sekjal: are you arguing that they should be providing you with an artisan beer stipend? :)
15:39 oleonard any project worth doing is worth doing at peak efficiency
15:40 oleonard Confound this decade, there's liquor cabinet in my office!
15:40 sekjal jcamins: I knew there was something else I should have put on that grant application!
15:40 jcamins "I did a kickass job this past year, but given a carefully calculated amount of artisan beer every day, I could do an even better job next year!"
15:40 oleonard /no/ liquor cabinet that is
15:40 jcamins oleonard: I was going to say, sounds like you the 2010s in Ohio are a lot more exciting than in New York. :P
15:41 WaylonR okay , night all
15:41 WaylonR going to bed.
15:41 drojf seems like the best thing german pirate party has done for their poll results lately is… having the house of their vice chairman raided by police to find some marihuana and cannabis plants.
15:42 jcamins oleonard: actually, I have a liquor cabinet in the room adjoining my office.
15:42 oleonard The benefits of working from home?
15:43 jcamins Indeed.
15:44 jcamins Of course, one of the disadvantages is that said liquor cabinet doesn't get automatically stocked.
15:55 gerundio drojf, while changing the source code I found the comments regarding what still need to be done
15:55 sekjal this is one of the first times I've listened to music at work… that's definitey something I miss from my home office days
15:56 jcamins I actually don't listen to music while working.
15:56 gerundio from lines 43 to 48
15:56 jcamins I turn on cheesy sci fi TV shows for background noise while cooking, though.
15:56 drojf gerundio: and you are volunteering? :)
15:56 gerundio I think I've accomplished all those goals except for the last one
15:56 drojf jcamins: you cook while working?
15:57 gerundio kind of :)
15:57 * oleonard knows jcamins is talking about Cleopatra 2525
15:57 drojf gerundio: that's fantastic!
15:57 gerundio I just need some directions where to perform that memberadd call
15:58 jcamins drojf: mostly in between working, when I'm wrestling with a problem.
15:58 jcamins oleonard: actually, I just started the original Star Trek.
15:58 drojf jcamins: like others go for a walk?
15:58 jcamins It was so absurd I had to stop after two episodes because it kept on distracting me from wrapping spanakopita.
15:58 jcamins drojf: right.
15:58 drojf that's cool :)
15:59 drojf gerundio: i'm afraid i don't know anything about memberadd
15:59 gerundio ok
15:59 drojf maybe somebody else here does
15:59 * jcamins avoids Auth.
15:59 drojf or you could add a question to the bug
16:00 drojf or ask libsysguy later
16:00 jcamins C4::Search is enough horror.
16:00 gerundio I'll try to trace the login action on the OPAC form
16:00 gerundio to figure out where this could be added :)
16:02 drojf gerundio: you are working hard for your "that LDAP guy" title :)
16:02 gerundio lolol
16:03 gerundio well, lets just say I've been away from keyboards and code for a while
16:03 gerundio I was managing a helpdesk team here at my faculty
16:03 jcamins gerundio: so you feel inspired to work on Auth_by_ldap?
16:03 jcamins gerundio: you should take a week-long vacation and come back and fix C4::Auth.
16:04 gerundio it feels good to get in touch with programing for a change now
16:04 drojf a looonglasting change
16:05 jcamins gerundio: in case it's not clear, most of us find C4::Auth horrifying and terrifying.
16:05 drojf paid with lots of karma and glory
16:05 gerundio I got that impression in the last few days by talking to you guys
16:05 gerundio but don't get the hopes up to high
16:06 jcamins gerundio: but after a week-long vacation, surely you'll be raring to go? :)
16:06 melia joined #koha
16:06 drojf too late. YOU CAN'T LET US DOIWN NOW!!
16:06 gerundio if you're religious, let me just say, the saviour walked the earth 2000+ years ago :p
16:07 gaetan_B bye !
16:08 drojf heh. just kidding. whatever little (or more) you choose to do is very cool! what you did now is already cool. thanks!
16:08 jcamins gerundio: hehe.
16:09 gerundio it would be nice to get a little more involved on some open source projects
16:09 gerundio I deal with them all the time here at work
16:09 gerundio but I never get to have enough time on each one of them to contribute that much
16:09 gerundio lets see how it goes this time :)
16:11 drojf goodness, nengard is on a help file spree
16:11 nengard got a deadline looming
16:12 nengard they're not as thorough as i want them
16:12 nengard but i do want to get them to the translators if I can
16:12 nengard I don't think I'll finish before the freeze
16:15 drojf oh it's on monday already
16:15 nengard and I leave for a conference tomorrow
16:15 drojf well, sleep is overrated anyway :P
16:18 nengard jcamins do you have any help info for the did you mean feature? a help file wasn't created - I can do one, but if you have something I can copy from I'll use that
16:18 nengard and that is your feature right? :)
16:18 nengard hehe
16:19 jcamins nengard: for the feature or for the page?
16:19 jcamins The feature is OPAC-only at the moment, which is probably why it doesn't show up in the intranet help files.
16:20 nengard for the page - how to use the feature from the admin area in the staff client
16:20 jcamins The page in admin is just to enable/disable and prioritize Did you mean? plugins (OPAC-only for right now, in a follow-up for 3.12).
16:20 jcamins I didn't write any help on it.
16:20 jcamins It's all drag-and-drop.
16:21 jcamins Check the box for each plugin you want to enable, drag them into your preferred order, and click "Save."
16:21 nengard right, but what am i dragging and dropping, how does the set up effect the opac ? basically whatever would be in the manual i'll put on that help page, but i haven't put it in the manual yet
16:22 jcamins Didn't you? I thought I approved your manual text.
16:23 jcamins See the yellow bar near the top, that suggests the Smithsonian and a couple of other Smiths?
16:24 gerundio think I found the origin of the problem
16:24 gerundio need some perl expertise from you now :)
16:24 gerundio $ldap = C4::Context->config('useldapserver') || 0;
16:24 jcamins That's the AuthorityFile plugin. It searches for your terms in the authority file, and suggests you search for records linked to those authorities.
16:25 gerundio this should assign $ldap with the 'useldapserver' config file value if the entry exists and otherwise set it to 0, right?
16:25 jcamins The ExplodedTerms plugin suggests broader/narrower/related searches using the authority hierarchy links in authority records' 5xx fields.
16:25 jenkins_koha Starting build #910 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:26 jcamins I would suspect that ExplodedTerms is not particularly useful for US public libraries, but would be useful for UNIMARC libraries, and for special libraries.
16:27 drojf gerundio: that's what i think
16:27 drojf but perl expertise is nothing i would claim for myself :)
16:27 jcamins gerundio: that's correct. The ||0 is to make sure we don't get warnings about the variable being undefined.
16:28 gerundio hmm, weird then
16:28 nengard jcamins nope - you approved the authorities linking text
16:28 nengard i need some food before i start thinking about all of this :)
16:28 gerundio I have that set to 1 in my config file
16:28 nengard I'll be back
16:28 gerundio and I'm getting the value 0 there
16:29 jcamins gerundio: are you using memcached?
16:29 gerundio yeap :)
16:30 gerundio a memcached restart is in order then :D
16:30 jcamins Yeah.
16:30 gerundio do you want the good news or the good news? :D
16:30 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/new/bug_8525' <[…]c86a8522ef905eca1> / Follow up: Bug 8525: Update preference description <[…]9394d65238c31f78c> / Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/new/bug_7986' <[…]p=koha.git;a=comm
16:30 jcamins The argument against putting memcached configuration in koha-conf.xml makes very little sense, in light of the fact that any changes you make require restarting memcached anyway.
16:32 slef @arewethereyet
16:32 huginn slef: YES!
16:32 gerundio I was just discussing that with a colleague
16:33 gerundio memcached for storing the settings in a production environment makes all the sense to me
16:33 gerundio well, but lets make this official: LDAP bind authentication is now working
16:34 jcamins What we need is a `kohactl reload` (like `apache2ctl reload`).
16:34 jcamins Hooray!
16:34 drojf w00t
16:35 jcamins libsysguy won't be around today, I think.
16:35 drojf partying with swedes on his deck?
16:35 jcamins lol
16:35 jcamins Closing on a house, I think.
16:36 jcamins I warned him it was a trap, not unlike C4::Auth.
16:38 wizzyrea closing on a house! awesome!
16:38 wizzyrea @later tell libsysguy Congrats on the house!
16:38 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.
16:39 jcamins Next time we see him, he's going to have gone entirely gray. :P
16:39 kf lol
16:39 kf bye all and have a nice weekend!
16:39 kf left #koha
16:39 jcamins drojf: "Freistadt" - that's more likely to be the town in Austria than a German note along the lines of "unknown place," right?
16:39 jcamins Bah.
16:39 jcamins Just missed kf. I could've asked for two opinions.
16:40 oleonard And it's Friday--kf might not be back until Monday!
16:40 jcamins She's on vacation next week.
16:40 jcamins No kf for a long time!
16:41 drojf jcamins: definitely the austrian town. not possible to use that as "unknown place" as far as i can imagine
16:41 jcamins drojf: good.
16:42 drojf but, well, if it's austrian, they may have crazy words with weird meanings :D
16:43 jcamins "Eleutheropol" was identified as "Freistadt," but since "Eleutheropol" is a false imprint, I was concerned that it could be a note in German along the lines of "free [un-fixed] place." :)
16:43 dracoling jcamins: Freistadt is also a neighborhood in Mequon, WI, USA. But that's probably not really relevant.
16:43 jcamins dracoling: seems unlikely, unless they had a printing press in 1704.
16:44 jcamins Actually, this could be a thrilling swashbuckling adventure.
16:45 jcamins The story of how hundreds of books were printed in Mequon, WI under a false imprint and then smuggled to Europe and claimed by booksellers in various places on the continent.
16:46 dracoling Simple answer denied in favor of buckling of swashes.
16:47 jcamins Move over Dan Brown and The Da Vinci Code, here comes jcamins and The Eleutheropol Conspiracy!
16:49 drojf jcamins: interesting idea. you would not do it that way in more or less modern german. had a look in my etymological dictionary, nothing there. it would probably rather be "Freistatt" (Stätte=place, Stadt=town) and a convention i never heard of or can find.
16:49 oleonard Wherein the hero stops at nothing to race across the country to solve the mystery, stopping only to periodically bake bread.
16:50 jcamins drojf: good. I hate leaving items unmapped.
16:50 drojf :)
16:50 jcamins This is the client for whom I did the mapping jQuery.
16:52 drojf freistatt is also a word for "asylum, sanctuary" by the way
16:52 drojf mapping jquery?
16:53 jcamins jquery library?
16:53 wahanui jquery library is found at[…]ki/JQuery_Library
16:53 jcamins Under OPAC enhanced content.
16:57 drojf oh fancy! i have to try that. and OSM it ;)
16:58 jcamins drojf: I'd like to use OSM + Koha's report service to actually map the entire collection.
16:58 drojf yes, please!
16:59 jcamins However, I want my clients' systems to be stable more than I want that, so I'm running 3.6.x.
16:59 jcamins Well- plus a few backports, but the reports service was too complicated.
17:00 drojf stable, schmable. shiny features!!1! :D
17:01 sekjal joined #koha
17:01 jcamins Logs?
17:01 wahanui Logs is
17:02 jcamins @later tell rangi Please fix logbot, he is logging [off].
17:02 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
17:03 oleonard jcamins: Where?
17:04 drojf logs fine for me
17:04 jcamins Wait...
17:04 jcamins That's weird.
17:05 jcamins It appears in search but not in the logs.
17:05 jcamins @later tell rangi Never mind. [off] appears in search results, but possibly not in the actual logs.
17:05 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
17:06 oleonard Indeed.
17:07 drojf that is strange
17:08 drojf and not really desirable
17:08 jcamins As an aside, we're pretty snarky, aren't we? :)
17:10 drojf we are?
17:10 jcamins Bug 8948
17:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8948 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , MARC21 field 787 doesn't display
17:11 jcamins drojf: there are days, yes.
17:15 drojf lol. i bet fb has put me in a 787 of several people that invited me. fb should really use MARC.
17:17 tcohen eythian
17:17 jcamins tcohen: it's Saturday in NZ.
17:17 tcohen what are the instructions to test your packages?
17:17 tcohen oh
17:18 tcohen i always forget :-D
17:18 jcamins tcohen: probably you should just do "sudo apt-get install [package name]"?
17:18 tcohen jcamins, yes, but the packages are not there
17:19 jcamins Oh.
17:19 jcamins Hm.
17:19 jcamins That's a problem.
17:19 tcohen so I thought there must be another debian repo he is using for testing
17:19 jcamins Actually, I see.
17:20 jcamins All the dependencies are now on
17:20 jcamins So what you should be testing is that building the packages using your script works?
17:20 jcamins Maybe?
17:20 * jcamins goes to eat lunch.
17:24 drojf oh no the LDAP guy left
17:25 gerundio joined #koha
17:25 gerundio time to say goodbye for now
17:26 gerundio have a nice weekend everyone
17:26 gerundio thanks for the support
17:26 drojf heh gerundioi i just thought to send you to another LDAP bug ;)
17:26 drojf gerundio:
17:26 gerundio lolol
17:27 drojf have a nice weekend :) come back if you get bored ;)
17:27 gerundio isn't it solved already with this new patch?
17:27 drojf i dont know, you are the expert :)
17:27 drojf[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8919
17:27 huginn Bug 8919: critical, P1 - high, ---, dpavlin, Needs Signoff , ExtendedPatronAttributes not populated from LDAP
17:29 gerundio remind me of this monday :)
17:29 gerundio gone
17:30 drojf ha. looks promising
17:33 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #910: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/910/
17:33 jenkins_koha * mtompset: Bug 8861 - Undefined variables in trigger error logs
17:33 jenkins_koha * mirko: Bug 4177 opaccloud missing from the system preferences interface
17:33 jenkins_koha * nengard: Bug 7986 Follow Up: Update ExportWithCsvProfile
17:33 jenkins_koha * nengard: Bug 7986 Follow Up: Fix ExportRemoveFields
17:33 jenkins_koha * nengard: Follow up: Bug 8525: Update preference description
17:33 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8861 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Master , Undefined variables in trigger error logs
17:33 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4177 normal, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Pushed to Master , opaccloud missing from the system preferences interface
17:33 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7986 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Export issues
17:33 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8525 minor, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , Highlight matches on details page
17:34 tcohen jcamins, I thought that eythian had built libkoha-contrib-tamil-perl and its dependencies into the repo
17:35 jcamins You know, I need to configure Zebra to understand 'u' and 'v' as the same letter.
17:35 jcamins tcohen: I'm not sure. I can't figure out quite what he wanted done, so I'm just guessing.
17:35 tcohen yeah, me too
17:38 drojf has the livecd manager been here somewhen since the irc meeting?
17:39 jcamins I don't think so, but I could be mistaken.
17:39 drojf @seen vimal
17:39 huginn drojf: vimal was last seen in #koha 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <vimal> Thanl u all
17:39 drojf no he wasn't. (and i did remember the nick)
17:51 tcohen jcamins, is it posible that those packages had been uploaded to a catalyst's repo?
17:52 jcamins tcohen: possibly, but I don't know where that would be.
17:52 cait joined #koha
17:52 tcohen i'll let it go he, maybe on monday i can test that
17:52 tcohen thanks
17:52 * cait waves
17:53 jcamins o/
17:53 wajasu i think he meant that he put the packages in squeeze-dev
17:54 jcamins wajasu: but they're not there.
17:54 wajasu oh
18:06 melia left #koha
18:11 rambutan joined #koha
18:30 drojf sent a mail about »official« livecds to the lists. i hope it does not sound arrogant.
18:36 rangi seems fine to me
18:37 slef arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh I am sooooooooooooooooooo glad that koha doesn't require github
18:37 rangi and no off in search results now
18:37 jcamins rangi++
18:37 slef thank you thank you to all the lovely hosts of machines
18:37 jcamins slef: what's github done?
18:37 jcamins This reminds me. Must add git hooks.
18:37 jcamins Later.
18:37 slef jcamins: you can't use it without registering with them.
18:38 slef jcamins: and their terms suck.
18:38 jcamins slef: but you have to send your key to gmcharlt for, too.
18:39 slef jcamins: does gmcharlt insist on your legal full name and that you pay for his lawyers?
18:39 * oleonard eyes gmcharlt suspiciously
18:39 gmcharlt slef: my lawyers demand fine chocolate!
18:39 jcamins slef: well he never did before, but now that you've suggested it...
18:40 slef gmcharlt: tough, you missed your chance and only got a bar drink.
18:40 gmcharlt now, to start work on my JD
18:40 slef gmcharlt: +Coke?
18:40 cait lol jcamins++
18:40 magnuse who can give @arewethereyet a new date to keep track of?
18:40 gmcharlt heh - I had meant juris doctor, but Jack Daniels also works
18:41 cait @quote add jcamins: Facebook may not like unspecified relationships, but rare books catalogers do!
18:41 huginn cait: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
18:41 cait meh
18:41 wizzyrea @quote add jcamins: Facebook may not like unspecified relationships, but rare books catalogers do!
18:41 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #220 added.
18:41 cait can someone else do me the favour? :)
18:41 cait thx wizzyrea
18:41 cait :)
18:41 wizzyrea yw
18:41 rangi @help arewethereyet
18:41 huginn rangi: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
18:41 rangi @help
18:41 huginn rangi: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
18:41 rangi magnuse: i fail
18:42 magnuse that's ok rangi :-)
18:42 magnuse we all do, some time or opther
18:42 magnuse see?
18:42 magnuse btw: my "get to know koha" day is fully booked - 20 people from 11 libraries - w00t!
18:43 jcamins Awesome!
18:43 jcamins magnuse++
18:43 slef the file submited?
18:43 wahanui the file submited is not even the correct one :(
18:43 slef wine?
18:43 wahanui wine is, like, an acceptable ingredient ;)
18:43 drojf slides?
18:43 wahanui kf should be writing slides
18:43 rangi ok gotta shut down and pack the computer up to take camping
18:43 slef ok, wine?
18:43 wahanui wine is, like, not usually the best for programming :)
18:43 magnuse ooh, have fun rangi!
18:43 slef Of course, one of the disadvantages?
18:43 wahanui Of course, one of the disadvantages is that said liquor cabinet doesn't get automatically stocked.
18:44 * magnuse wanders off to eat his pizza bianca...
18:44 drojf ah. camping. out in the wilderness. only nature. and your notebook. and smartphone. have fun :)
18:44 cait pizza bianca... hm.
18:44 cait now he leaves us with that
18:44 gmcharlt @arewethereyet
18:44 huginn gmcharlt: Not yet - wait 34 days
18:44 cait yay :)
18:46 jcamins Foccaccia uses a rich dough?
18:46 * cait hopes rangi doesn't get eaten by a bear or one of those big reptiles
18:46 drojf dragons?
18:46 cait jcamins: is that some kind of new code noone told me about? :)
18:47 jcamins cait: I was just looking pizza bianca.
18:48 * slef adds "the new Google Groups" to his usability disaster zone blacklist
18:48 jcamins slef: but if we had a Google group...
18:48 jcamins uhhh...
18:48 jcamins drojf: help me out here?
18:49 drojf lol
18:49 drojf once we import all mailing list data to google groups all problems will vanish
18:49 slef icing on the cake is "Not ready for change? Temporarily choose the old Google Groups from the settings menu." and if you do that, it says there was an error communicating with the server with a link to "Reload" and that then displays... guess what?  "The new Google Groups" again, with the same "Not ready for change?" popup
18:50 * cait hands slef an oatmeal cookie
18:50 slef If they remade that Superbowl advert today, it wouldn't be Big Brother on the big screen, it would be Google
18:50 slef and it wouldn't be a hammer, it would be an iphone5, which is about the same size
18:50 cait no chocolate, but a cookie
18:50 slef :)
18:50 jcamins Oooh.
18:50 jcamins Pizza.
18:50 drojf that popup is supposed to say "Not ready for change to temporarely choose the old google groups from teh server menu". it's a warning
18:50 * cait had pizza tonight... what a coincidence
18:51 jcamins (I know you said "cookie," but that made me think about baking)
18:51 wizzyrea oleonard: with your permission I'm going to add your bit of jquery to the library on the wiki
18:51 wizzyrea re: title notes vs holdings tab
18:51 oleonard Sure, although it will be different in 3.10+
18:51 wizzyrea I will specify the version
18:53 oleonard Thanks wizzyrea. I even looked on the wiki for it before I re-figured it out for the message.
18:54 slef Things like Google Groups really annoy me. They're ear-chewingly bad, yet still get flocks of people going to them.
18:55 oleonard I missed posting my dinner choice online once and got a nasty letter from Google.
18:55 * drojf considers kohaleaks
18:56 slef oleonard: I thought it was twitter was for posting dinner choices?
18:56 slef oleonard: or is that why they launched google+?
18:57 oleonard Sorry, I should have said Instagram
18:59 wizzyrea lol true about instagram
18:59 wizzyrea it's the place for pictures of your kids, or of women making duck faces, or dudes looking tough, or pictures of historical monuments taken from strange angles
19:00 wizzyrea and mostly, food.
19:00 wizzyrea one guy I follow does nothing but take pictures of every meal.
19:00 wizzyrea they always look quite yummy.
19:03 cait wizzyrea: how does this cauliflower thing work?
19:03 cait you amde me curious although cauliflower is probably the only vegetable I don't like
19:04 jcamins I like cauliflower sometimes.
19:04 oleonard Raw cauliflower with hummus!
19:05 wizzyrea http://www.onegoodthingbyjille[…]o-believe-it.html
19:06 wizzyrea where "riced" cauliflower = buzzed to death in a food processor.
19:06 wizzyrea well, until it looks like grain anyway.
19:06 jcamins wizzyrea: you mean, like rice?
19:07 jcamins :P
19:07 wizzyrea precisely. :{
19:07 wizzyrea :P
19:08 cait and again... I got no microwave
19:08 cait *sob*
19:08 wizzyrea well you can steam it
19:08 wizzyrea that's all you're doing really
19:08 wizzyrea do you have a pot and a colander?
19:08 wizzyrea line the colander with a paper or cloth towel, put the cauliflower in it
19:08 dracoling mmmmmm. steamed cauliflower
19:08 wizzyrea put that over a pot of boiling water
19:08 wizzyrea let it go for 10ish minutes
19:08 wizzyrea same thing.
19:09 wizzyrea you probably want a lid on that
19:09 wizzyrea too.
19:09 jcamins Definitely a lid.
19:09 jcamins Much faster that way.
19:09 wizzyrea you can also make fried rice this way.
19:09 wizzyrea which is also yummy
19:09 wahanui okay, wizzyrea.
19:09 wizzyrea forget which
19:09 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot which
19:10 wizzyrea faux fried rice, I mean
19:10 * cait looks up colander :P
19:10 wizzyrea it's a bowl with holes in it
19:10 cait aaah
19:10 cait right
19:10 wizzyrea :)
19:10 cait of course I haveone
19:10 wizzyrea yesss!
19:11 cait but it's still cauliflower.... it will take some time until I am ready to try that
19:11 dracoling which is literally ''
19:12 dracoling aww. no factoids for me :(
19:12 wizzyrea it doesn't taste like cauliflower
19:12 wizzyrea to me
19:12 jcamins which?
19:12 wahanui which is literally ''
19:12 jcamins wahanui: forget which
19:12 wahanui jcamins: I forgot which
19:12 jcamins which is <reply>
19:12 wizzyrea which is <reply>
19:12 wahanui i already had it that way, wizzyrea.
19:12 wizzyrea lol
19:12 jcamins which?
19:12 * wizzyrea shakes her fist at jcamins
19:14 oleonard Should have been "which is <reply> which what?"
19:18 drojf witch?
19:19 jcamins which witch?
19:19 wahanui She'll put a curse on me if I tell!
19:19 drojf lol
19:20 cait lol
19:22 drojf cait?
19:22 wahanui cait is qam, not my secretary
19:22 cait lol
19:23 jcamins cait?
19:23 wahanui i think cait is qam, not your secretary
19:33 rambutan joined #koha
19:42 rambutan left #koha
20:09 nengard joined #koha
20:12 oleonard Have a good weekend #koha
20:40 melia joined #koha
21:17 wizzyrea I probably won't be around much for a couple of weeks after this. :)
21:18 wizzyrea so be safe, productive, and well.
21:18 wizzyrea and I will see you all again soon.
21:19 santy joined #koha
21:21 wizzyrea joined #koha
21:22 santy hello everyone.  I have a question... when saving a biblio in koha, does the Marcxml string get concatenated and updated again by the saving routine with the new values?
21:25 Irma1 joined #koha
21:38 santy does the Koha api have a function to just do that... concatenate and update the marcxml field, so that I can call that function in a batch process?
21:40 santy I already looked but did not find one
21:44 drojf first question?
21:44 wahanui "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
21:45 drojf second question?
21:45 wahanui second question is, like, "What is the exact error message?"
21:45 drojf third question?
21:45 wahanui third question is "What version of Koha are you using?"[…]ion-koha-running/
21:45 drojf fourth question?
21:45 wahanui fourth question is "Are we there yet?"
21:45 drojf fifth question?
21:45 wahanui i heard fifth question was "Are we there yet?"
21:53 drojf logs?
21:53 wahanui logs is
22:14 maximep left #koha
22:25 melia left #koha
22:28 wizzyrea joined #koha
22:34 jcamins_away santy: this is the wrong way to edit records.
22:35 jcamins You _are_ going to mess up your system, and you're not going to be able to get any help you do that.
22:39 magnuse there is a right way to edit marc? ;-)
22:40 jcamins magnuse: yes, without editing the XML directly.
22:40 magnuse :-)
22:41 drojf why is it XML if i am not supposed to edit it? *hides*
22:41 * magnuse wonders why his memcached had a sudden spike in activity and then died a few hours ago
22:42 jcamins drojf: so that you'll try and have to pay me at my "broken production fixing" rates? Nah, that's not a good reason. I don't want to ever charge those rates, 'cause I hate dealing with broken production systems.
22:42 drojf heh
22:42 drojf the '30x the normal rate' rates?
22:43 jcamins Yup.
22:43 drojf why do people say nullmailer is easy to set up if it does not work?
22:43 santy Ok, I'll try and explain, there are many organizations who already have their own standard or custom ILS systems and who are very eager to switch to Koha.  unfortunately, some of them, like my client, are very restrictive of the kind of solutions a consultant may propose.  In a case where one has to use java to migrate or synchronize records from foreign ILS systems things can get really rough.  How am I supposed to use Koha's api from Java?  I have tried,
22:43 santy have looked to find out the most standar and Koha compliant way to do this but must also do what my client enforces me to do.  In the end all data shall be migrated to Koha successfully, the hard way.
22:44 jcamins santy: Koha was not designed to be used in tandem with other ILSes.
22:44 drojf or with java
22:44 jcamins There is no Java API at all, and almost certainly never will be.
22:44 magnuse santy: export the data, massage it and import it into koha
22:44 santy I know, but I just want to migrate some records from another db.
22:44 jcamins There are a couple of web service APIs, but they're not going to do what you want either.
22:45 jcamins In order to get records from one system to another, you should export them as MARC, make any needed changes, and import them.
22:45 magnuse s/massage it/massage it with whatever tools you like/
22:45 jcamins Koha provides command line scripts.
22:45 santy I need to migrate some 40000 records from a custom db to Koha...
22:46 magnuse santy: can you export them as marc?
22:46 santy that is exactly the point... I cannot
22:46 jcamins In that case, export them as whatever you can export them, and convert them into MARC.
22:46 santy they have a very ill designed system and there is no... export db as marc
22:47 jcamins If you are converting them into MARCXML, that's fine. Just import that MARCXML into Koha.
22:47 magnuse migration toolbox?
22:47 wahanui migration toolbox is
22:47 magnuse there are some tools there that might be useful, i think
22:47 * magnuse calls it a day
22:48 jcamins Any direct modifications to the Koha database have a 90%+ chance of making things worse.
22:48 santy Well, I have to speak from my experience, I know how to concatenate the marcxml, I have done It and records show and can be searched neatly from Kohas catalog and staff interfaces..
22:48 jcamins santy: if you're happy with how you're doing it, that's fine.
22:48 santy zebra processes them good
22:48 jcamins However, if you are directly inserting MARCXML, that is bad.
22:49 jcamins That means you are failing to fill in several dozen columns that *need* to be filled in for everything to work right.
22:50 jcamins If you are not directly importing the MARCXML, then you'll have to try rephrasing your question, because I understand that you are doing something like "INSERT INTO biblioitems (marcxml) VALUES (${marcxml});"
22:50 jcamins Aww!
22:50 santy I do... I really traverse every marc code and add fields and subfields... concatenating them from a program
22:50 jcamins Myshkin just jumped into a bag.
22:50 santy not throug sql
22:50 jcamins Okay, that's what we just recommended that you do.
22:50 drojf a bag?
22:50 wahanui I LIKE BASEBALL
22:51 jcamins Yeah. A little paper bag with handles.
22:51 jcamins It's almost large enough for him to fit.
22:51 santy I know... I would prefer to call a Koha api perl function like... concatenateMarcXML(author,corpor​ate_author,title,unititle,....)
22:51 jcamins santy: okay, now I understand.
22:51 santy but I don't know if there is one
22:52 jcamins There is not.
22:52 santy ok
22:52 jcamins santy: that's very different from what it sounded like you were asking initially.
22:52 santy you're right, sometimes these questions are not easy to explain
22:53 drojf awwww
22:53 cjh nawww
22:54 drojf cats and bags, cats and boxes. they sure know how to have it cozy :)
22:54 jcamins santy: santy so it sounds to me like this is the best way to go about things.
22:56 santy well it worked... I'm succesfully importing ISIS records, and zebra indexes fine.
22:58 santy If this project goes well I might show you what I did and port my java webservice to perl and some how make it official.
22:59 jcamins Regardless how the project works, you should seriously consider making all the code open source and available.
22:59 jcamins Someone just might pick up some of your code and make it better.
23:01 santy I will, sure... I mean if things go well, at least I can say synchronizing already works between kohas, and WINSISI. i still have to implement SIABUC8 (which uses access)
23:01 jcamins Ewww.
23:01 * jcamins hates Access.
23:01 jcamins It was an excuse for people who didn't know anything about databases to break things.
23:03 jcamins Also, Access crashes a lot.
23:03 santy lol, I know access is not very reliable for a production system... but, there really are government agencies that have access based ILS... and its my duty to remotely show their records through Koha
23:04 drojf government agencies are crazy
23:06 santy yes... they are so inertial... picky... and burocratic
23:06 santy I still don't know if in the end they make me implement everything on redhat
23:07 drojf good luck with that
23:07 drojf if it goes really bad they make you reimplement koha in java :P
23:07 santy oh God
23:08 santy It WAS hard to convince them that the ISIS synchronizer had to be implemented on perl
23:10 santy anyway, if they mess up the project with their guidelines, they will be under pressure from 52 public libraries
23:10 santy (which I have to syncronize)
23:23 drojf santy: why does it have to be java? i kind of understand the redhat thing (if they are a redhat partner blah blah), but why do they dictate a programming language for the import stuff? as long as it works, what does it matter?
23:24 santy because it is difficult for them to find and hire programmers for any other language...
23:25 santy not many people here know perl
23:26 drojf i see
23:26 jcamins santy: do they understand that Koha is written in Perl?
23:27 santy yes, they do, and accepted it because Koha is such a marvelous free system
23:27 santy they are into open source right now
23:27 santy which is cool
23:27 * jcamins thinks that's very good.
23:28 jcamins But if they're not planning on keeping an Perl programmers on-staff, nor hiring a vendor for support, things could be very difficult.
23:28 santy but they have their quirks
23:29 santy well, I know a bit of perl, (did an ISIS syncronizer), they say they might hire me
23:33 drojf they have not hired you yet? how come you work for them already?
23:34 santy I mean, hire me again...
23:36 drojf oh look my koha sent mail
23:36 drojf good koha, have a cookie
23:37 drojf still does not send a recall mail for bug 8688 but errors
23:37 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8688 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Needs Signoff , Add a recall button to the biblio record details page.
23:41 melia joined #koha
23:43 drojf how did it use a smarthost without me giving username and password? that's interesting
23:46 jcamins drojf: I've never figured out how to use nullmailer.
23:46 drojf jcamins: it's postfix, nullmailer did not work for me
23:47 jcamins Ah.
23:47 jcamins Postfix always works well for me.
23:47 drojf it did send a testmail, but it did not relay localhost mails (from koha)
23:48 drojf postfix now just worked. that did not happen before. i'm a little confused how it uses the smarthost though without logging in :D
23:50 drojf but maybe that is the reason the recall thingy does not work
23:51 drojf some mail is much better than no mail at all. i consider this a win. and wonder how i did not manage to configure postfix before, it just works
23:55 melia left #koha

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary