IRC log for #koha, 2012-10-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:09 wajasu fyi: apache-shared-intranet.conf   i was looking to see if things are available and noticed:   ls: cannot access /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/ No such file or directory
00:09 wajasu this is tcohen's koha-common.deb
00:10 wajasu but this is another issue maybe.
00:10 wajasu ScriptAlias for /search in intranet.
00:17 jcamins wajasu: I don't know what is going on with that.
00:19 eythian wajasu: sudo koha-enable dog?
00:33 wajasu i remove dthe dog and created cat and did koha-enable.  its working.
00:39 wajasu ok. the webinstaller is running.  it complained about wanting Template::Plugin::HtmlToText  though
00:39 wajasu maybe he left that out of the deps
00:40 libsysguy joined #koha
00:41 eythian it's a relatively new addition
00:43 wajasu ok.  i'll just note it in the bug, that he needs to add the dep.
00:44 eythian well, if he's testing something else he doesn't, it's in the core packages.
00:47 wajasu so thats not his responsibility?  having it in debian.packages or whatever drives the koha-common deps?
00:47 jcamins wajasu: right. That has nothing to do with him.
00:47 jcamins I think there's already a patch for it, too.
00:48 wajasu ok. ill just note my findings and signoff
00:52 oleonard joined #koha
00:52 jcamins Is it morning again already and no one told me?!?
00:52 eythian no, it's just afternoon.
00:53 jcamins eythian: then how do you explain oleonard's presence?
00:53 eythian magic.
00:53 oleonard 8:50AM, time to start work!
00:53 jcamins Maybe Ohio has seceded and is now 180 degrees out of phase with the rest of us.
00:55 eythian the rest of you. From my point of view, they seceded long ago.
00:57 * oleonard always ends up doing about half an hour of yak-shaving when working from his seldom-used VM at home
00:57 jcamins oleonard: why on earth are you working at this hour?
00:57 oleonard Got a bee in my bonnet
00:57 oleonard Why on earth are *you* working at this hour?
00:58 jcamins oleonard: uhhh...
00:58 * jcamins checks.
00:58 jcamins Aren't I usually?
00:58 * oleonard wouldn't know :P
00:59 oleonard Actually it seems like you work at all hours
01:00 jcamins Pretty much.
01:01 jcamins Being a business owner has its disadvantages.
01:03 oleonard Yeah, that's how kados got to be #1 in IRC stats
01:04 jcamins Hehe.
01:04 * jcamins is actually going to stop working now.
01:04 jcamins For a bit.
01:09 wajasu io had to add NamedVirtualHost: 8080  and Listen:8080 to ports.conf   to get the staff client to work for the .deb  so i guess i must fail it.   or is he going to gen a new one?
01:09 jcamins_away wajasu: that has nothing to do with what you're testing.
01:09 wajasu good.
01:09 jcamins_away That is just the way packages work.
01:09 eythian wajasu: normally people don't use 8080 for the packages
01:10 jcamins_away If you want a non-standard Apache configuration, you need to configure it yourself.
01:10 eythian if you want to use 8080, you have to know how to tell that to apache
01:10 wajasu so where does the staff cleint default to these days?
01:11 eythian :80
01:11 eythian but on a different virtual host
01:11 wajasu its combined now?
01:11 pastebot "mtj" at pasted "perl -wc" (29 lines) at
01:11 wajasu maybe its the warning about the overlap that threw me off.
01:12 mtj does anyone know what thats about? ^^
01:12 eythian wajasu: you probably misconfigured something then, basically they end up on different hostnames.
01:12 eythian assuming you set up /etc/koha-sites.conf correctly
01:13 wajasu i didn't have koha-sites.conf  or the DNS  env vars stuff.
01:13 mtj lots of 'Subroutine XXX redefined at C4/ line XXX.' warns...
01:13 eythian wajasu: yeah, that'll be why
01:13 eythian I really need to make it ask those questions at install time.
01:17 wajasu so i guess i'll just apply the patch to master and signoff as usual trusting his deb.
01:19 mtj hmm, its seems to be all subs() in have the weird 'redefined' warning :/
01:36 wajasu something with that Exporter?
01:39 wajasu maybe the   require Exporter;      should be outside the BEGIN?  like has
01:39 wajasu just grabbing at straws.
01:43 rgbv joined #koha
01:44 mtj oooh, nice, weborange just corrected/updated their koha lists ->[…]
01:44 mtj Discussion list for the Koha Library system (Recent threads)
01:44 oleonard Oh by the way, the owner of the Koha Live CD project on Sourceforge pulled the file
01:44 oleonard
01:44 eythian oh, good
01:44 rgbv hi all
01:45 mtj oleonard, awesome news
01:46 mtj heya rgbv
01:47 rangi wow oleonard is still around!
01:47 oleonard Not still but again
01:47 rangi ahh
01:47 mtompset joined #koha
01:48 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
01:49 rgbv I want to add a span class to the status in the opac full bib view, looking for the right .tt to modify but I can't see it...
01:49 oleonard Which status rgbv ?
01:49 oleonard Editing the template isn't recommended, unless you're planning to submit a patch
01:50 rgbv usually Available, On loan ...
01:50 oleonard Is your goal to have a different style for each status?
01:51 rgbv I want to use jquery to alter wording to , say On order for items that are on order
01:52 oleonard rgbv, you should be able to do that by setting authorised values in the staff client
01:52 rangi not really oleonard
01:52 oleonard (although adding classes to that section would also be a worthwhile development)
01:52 oleonard No, rangi?
01:52 rangi because it needs to still be available, but say on order
01:52 rangi ie they still want to be able to place holds on it
01:53 oleonard[…]blionumber=269398
01:53 rangi if you use lost or one of those statuses with authorised values to mark it on order
01:53 rangi then it cant have holds
01:53 rangi and you can place a hold on that?
01:53 oleonard Yes
01:54 rangi cos that not for loan field
01:54 rangi used to totally stop that
01:54 * oleonard double-checks how we set it up
01:55 oleonard If the NOT_LOAN authorised value has a negative value (in our this case, -1), it is available for holds
01:55 rgbv ahhh
01:55 rgbv let me test that :)
01:56 rangi cool, that didnt used to happen, it used to be if it was non zero it was blocked for everything, i must have missed that change
01:57 oleonard Yeah that was a pretty important feature for us to have
01:59 rgbv great, that works a charm, you've made my day ;)
01:59 oleonard Happy to have prevented an unnecessary template modification :)
02:00 * oleonard still thinks we could toss in some more spans and classes there for customization anyway
02:00 rangi yep
02:01 jcamins_away But note that -2 is a magic number.
02:02 oleonard ?
02:02 jcamins_away for NOT_LOAN.
02:02 jcamins_away -2 does something magical.
02:03 jcamins_away I don't remember what.
02:03 jcamins_away But I do remember that it will not work as you expect.
02:06 oleonard Hmmm... Allows holds, allows checkout.
02:07 * oleonard leaves again... can't do this late-night thing like the youngsters :P
02:07 rangi -2 doesnt feature in
02:08 jcamins_away Lovely. The casting company has no idea when or where Shari is supposed to show up, but thinks it'll probably be in the morning.
02:09 rangi helpful
02:09 jcamins_away Especially if it's 6am out in Brooklyn.
02:10 mtompset casting company? Is your wife an aspiring actress?
02:10 jcamins_away mtompset: no, but she's been extra-ing.
02:10 mtompset Ah... cool.
02:11 * jcamins_away would not make a good extra.
02:11 * jcamins_away expects professionalism from everyone he works with.
02:12 jcamins_away Not knowing at 2200 hours if you they want you to leave for work at 0400 hours is something that only happens if you are dealing with *exceedingly* unprofessional individuals.
02:12 jcamins_away s/you they/they/
02:18 mib_4v1tbr joined #koha
02:18 mib_4v1tbr .
02:18 BobB joined #koha
02:22 eythian
02:23 eythian (it's apparently actually an ad for an e-book seller, but this'd be neat with free/pd/etc books)
02:23 rangi yep
02:26 jcamins_away ,
02:27 * jcamins_away leaves again, having contributed to the conversation.
02:27 rangi heh
02:41 mtompset Cool link, eythian.
03:43 Brooke_ joined #koha
03:43 Brooke_ o/
03:44 rangi hi Brooke_
03:44 Brooke_ kia ora
03:47 eythian wow, you're on a jetstream connection. I didn't know they still existed.
03:48 mtompset jetstream connection?
03:48 mtompset Greetings, Brooke_
03:49 eythian It was a DSL brand by the major ISP here back in the early-mid 2000's.
03:50 eythian Known for its blazing 128k down speeds and uncapped national traffic.
03:50 eythian Though that was a long time ago, I expect it's somewhat better now.
03:51 Brooke_ free interwebs ftw :D
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04:29 wajasu joined #koha
04:33 wajasu just set up apt-cacher-ng on my archlinux.  booted my debian vm and configured sources.list with my apt-cacher-ng and passthru.  apt-get update, and apt-get install koha-common. its pulling...
04:33 rangi Hehe I saw that email coming
04:35 wajasu done.  now to try another vm build but pulling from that apt cache to see if its faster than
05:17 druthb joined #koha
05:23 drojf cool, there is a live-cd fanbase
05:29 mtj hmm, the dselect thread is getting a little trolly
05:44 druthb joined #koha
05:46 mtompset trolly?
05:48 mtompset mtj: How is the thread trolly?
05:48 mtompset I don't think there is anything terribly trolly.
05:49 mtompset drojf: They mostly seem to be in India.
05:50 mtompset Probably because of poor internet connectivity.
05:50 drojf from the reasoning it's more poor technical skills
05:52 mtompset But you don't gain technical skills unless you try.
05:53 mtompset Because of mtj's trolly comment, I decided against replying with why packages are better than a livecd.
05:54 magnuse kia ora #koha!
05:54 mtompset greetings, magnuse.
05:54 magnuse hiya mtompset
05:54 drojf that's right. but if you have an easy way that seems ok in a short term, you my stay with that for longer than you should instead of learning how it really works. that's one way to do it.
05:54 drojf hei magnuse
05:54 magnuse hi drojf
05:55 mtompset actually, though the maintainer of the named livecd still supports it. He doesn't release as often as Koha.
05:55 mtompset bug fixes slower = bad. :(
05:56 drojf 3.8.2. sounds great until they use fines
05:57 mtompset download livecd 600+MB vs. packages 40+MB ... bad.
05:57 mtompset (yes, the first time they do packages, there will be 400+MB libraries, but still)
05:59 mtompset livecd supprt (limited to issuer/users of livecd) vs. packages (a wider group of people)... less support = bad.
06:08 druthb joined #koha
06:08 magnuse o/
06:08 druthb Hi, magnuse.  :)
06:10 druthb Since cait isn't here to tell me to go to bed...   guess i don't have to.  :P
06:11 magnuse get some sleep druthb :-)
06:11 rangi magnuse:[…]il2nQm0Bb3XQ2.jpg
06:11 druthb @later tell cait :P  1 am and I'm still up....
06:11 huginn druthb: The operation succeeded.
06:12 magnuse rangi: h**l yeah!
06:12 druthb Hi rangi.  :)
06:12 magnuse that's a monument to commemorate some viking battle
06:14 magnuse
06:15 rangi :)
06:26 magnuse hehe that sure looks like a cool ils!
06:27 drojf i thought that would appeal to norwegians! ;)
06:37 laurence joined #koha
06:40 paul_p joined #koha
06:44 mtompset bonjour, laurence et paul_p. :)
06:46 laurence joined #koha
06:46 paul_p bonjour mtompset
06:47 laurence bonjour mtompset
06:49 sturmtruppen joined #koha
06:53 reiveune joined #koha
06:53 reiveune hello
06:53 wahanui niihau, reiveune
06:53 mtompset Greetings, reiveune. ;)
06:54 reiveune salut mtompset
06:54 mtompset Greetings, sturmtruppen.
06:54 * mtompset high fives reiveune. :)
06:56 sturmtruppen hi everyone
06:57 cait joined #koha
06:57 magnuse kia ora cait!
06:58 sophie_m1 joined #koha
06:59 cait hi magnuse :)
06:59 cait hi matts :)
06:59 matts hi !
06:59 mib_5qkq56 joined #koha
07:00 druthb Hi cait.
07:00 julian_m joined #koha
07:00 * druthb hides
07:00 cait hm could have sworn I saw druthb
07:00 julian_m hello
07:01 druthb Hehe
07:01 cait hi julian_m
07:04 WaqarAzeem joined #koha
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07:05 WaqarAzeem joined #koha
07:05 cait at night... it's a bit spooky hehe
07:05 * magnuse finds extracting marc records from a 2.2.x database dump file harder than expected
07:06 drojf magnuse: importing did not work?
07:14 francharb joined #koha
07:15 WaqarAzeem hi! someone know why Image is missing from patron page in v3.08. see here:
07:15 francharb good morning #koha
07:22 mtompset Greetings, francharb.
07:22 mtompset Hmmm... Can template toolkit have concatentation errors?!
07:22 mtompset Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs/opac-t​mpl/prog/en/modules/ line 748.
07:23 rangi warning, not error
07:23 rangi and yes it can
07:23 mtompset Though, I must admit to adding some code in that loops.
07:23 mtompset Yes, warning. Sorry.
07:24 zioha joined #koha
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07:24 rangi WaqarAzeem: does the user have the permission set?
07:32 magnuse drojf: yeah, i got it into mysql after a looong time, now there are encoding problems
07:37 * magnuse hates encodings
07:40 WaqarAzeem @rangi is there any specific right? btw i have set all the permission And i also have tired from kohaadmin.
07:40 huginn WaqarAzeem: downloading the Perl source
07:42 WaqarAzeem Is there any working online demo copy (nighly build) of v3.08 where can i check it.
07:43 mtompset magnuse: encoding problems?
07:43 magnuse mtompset: yeah, things like vård
07:44 mtompset That doesn't look like valid Norwegian. :)
07:45 magnuse nope :-)
08:33 * mtompset is going into a meeting.
08:33 mtompset Have a good day (24 hour period) everyone. :)
08:50 mveron joined #koha
08:50 mveron Hi #koha
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09:17 mveron @later tell nengard the age restriction info in the manual is very clear. I have nothing to add or comment about it.   Thank you very much. :-)
09:17 huginn mveron: The operation succeeded.
09:17 mveron nengard ++
09:30 zi joined #koha
09:41 fredericd jcamins_away: drop me a line when you're available. Authority display is broken for UNIMARC in 3.8
10:42 drojf clrh: the link to the documentation does not work in the english version of your drupal opac module posting. it works fine in the french version.
10:45 clrh thanks drojf I correct it :)
10:45 clrh fix
10:45 drojf :)
10:46 clrh done, thanks a lot drojf
10:47 drojf you're welcome :)
10:48 jcamins_away fredericd: in 3.8?
10:48 drojf magnuse: d'oh, that does not look nice
10:49 magnuse drojf: there is probably a proper way to fix it, but i took the short road and a did a lot of s/Â¥/å/g :-)
10:50 drojf hehe, i hope you caught everything
10:50 laurence left #koha
10:51 fredericd jcamins: yes in 3.8
10:52 fredericd Several issues language codes support, broader/narrower forms, etc.
10:52 fredericd I will submit a patch, not impacting MARC21
10:52 fredericd which bug number?
10:52 wahanui well, which bug number is it?
10:53 jcamins fredericd: could you file a new bug for it, so that the patches don't get lost?
10:53 jcamins And, any chance you could attach some sample authorities to that bug, so that I can sign off?
10:53 jcamins I tested with UNIMARC, but I created my own authorities.
10:53 jcamins Probably incorrectly.
10:56 mtompset joined #koha
10:56 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
10:56 drojf hi mtompset. i was just looking at the remastersys website too ;)
10:57 mtompset It would seem that the person generating the live cd/dvds didn't keep looking.
10:58 mtompset This whole live cd/dvd thing has got me thinking about how much should the librarian user need to understand about the koha installation.
10:59 mtompset I'm torn between ease of use and focusing on koha training, and making sure they understand how to duplicate an installation.
11:01 drojf if an experienced person does not keep up to date with the software he uses to create these cds, how can he expect users of a livecd to do so with the cd later.
11:02 drojf it's fine for training, to have a look etc. if you are aware that it is a snapshot for just that
11:02 mtompset I don't think he points that out though.
11:02 drojf it does not seem like people understand that. it seems more like people think "yeah, it just works" and use it forever
11:03 mtompset And it would seem, based on the email I just read... that he thinks it is okay.
11:04 jcamins mtompset: well, *he* doesn't provide any support at all.
11:04 drojf and, yes, i think for a library to use a highly specialized software product, there needs to be someone with technical skills present. either on site or outside support. you cannot expect something like that to just work with zero knowledge. what are we all doing here? why are there companies providing support if it's just a few clicks? it's not the way it works and you would not expect that from other software products
11:05 drojf it's not like it is impossible to master koha for all day use. but you have to know that you have to work on it, not just pop a cd in a computer
11:05 magnuse well, we do expect that from desktop software...
11:06 magnuse so people need to understand that koha is not a simple desktop program
11:08 drojf yes, that is the point. it's not a browser or whatever. and even a browser is complicated for some people if they have little rechnical knowledge. but koha as a professional, sophisticated special purpose software is nothing for an enduser to just play with (but s/he could, if technical skills are present)
11:09 drojf i think that is something people expect because its free software. everybody can use it. but that does not mean everybody is able to use it and that seems hard to understand
11:10 drojf and trowing livecds at people is really not helping with that
11:11 mtompset jcamins: You're right he doesn't provide support. :(
11:12 mtompset We only have three paid support companies in India.
11:12 mtompset (on the list)
11:12 nengard joined #koha
11:13 drojf mtompset: i suppose we also have a lot of libraries without money for that in india
11:15 drojf ok the "workshop and testing" thing is blown… "I know many college libraries in Kerala with above 50000 records successfully running on Koha Live CD."
11:15 drojf i should propose that to my library, we have less records
11:15 mtompset That's my point, drojf. That's NOT supposed to be the case.
11:15 * jcamins has nothing against using livecds that *work* in production.
11:16 jcamins But 100% of my experience with livecds has been negative.
11:16 jcamins (Koha livecds)
11:16 drojf i never tried to use a livecd in production. i could make some for our workshop :)
11:17 drojf instead of doing an installation workshop ;) just hand out the livecd and send everyone home
11:18 jcamins drojf: if you do that, *you* are answering all their questions about Zebra.
11:19 mtompset Now drojf! Actually, if the LiveCD is like the Ubuntu LiveCD and let's you actually install a proper standard installation, that wouldn't be so bad... but this doesn't seem to be the case.
11:20 drojf if the livecd would destroy itself after two months and make you either get a newer one or install koha from deb packages, that wouldn't be so bad
11:21 cait joined #koha
11:21 mtompset Actually, if the livecd installed on your computer as if you installed from packages, that would be good. ;)
11:22 mtompset Do the install, throw the CD away... boot normally into Koha. :)
11:22 cait hi #koha
11:22 drojf it could just display the up to date "install with packages" wiki page
11:22 drojf until you follow that
11:22 mtompset Greetings, cait.
11:22 drojf hi cait :)
11:23 jcamins I wonder if it would be possible to do a install-to-desktop livecd using packages.
11:23 jwagner joined #koha
11:25 mtompset Hypothetically, it should be.
11:25 jcamins mtompset: reasonably, I mean.
11:29 mtompset When I return to Canada, buy my dream machine, and *if* I can find financial partners, this would be something I'd like to test.
11:30 jcamins mtompset: you should test it on your netbook. :P
11:30 mtompset Uh, no. :P
11:36 mtompset drojf++ # love the humour.
11:36 mtompset Did you just notice the +1 in the mailing list?
11:36 drojf mtompset: so you are volunteering to be future livecd manager?
11:36 drojf i noticed
11:37 drojf also i noticed it said nothing about using it in production
11:37 mtompset Are you volunteering to make donations on my behalf to Wycliffe Germany? ;)
11:38 drojf mtompset: as an atheist, no :P
11:39 mtompset I can respect that.
11:39 drojf :)
11:40 mtompset What do you mean it didn't say anything about using it in production... "and so on" :P
11:41 drojf uh. you're right :(
11:41 mtompset Sometimes I am. :)
11:42 mtompset Actually... another pet project I'd like to look at in Koha on Windows. ;)
11:42 mtompset Though, I think one of the Chris' will advise me to abandon such madness.
11:44 drojf hm. i am quite happy that people have to consider a real OS to use koha. i would not want to give them back the idea that a server should run on windows
11:45 drojf also that would bring us a lot more google groups than we can handle
11:46 drojf apart from that, from what i have heard it is madness ;)
11:52 mtompset cpan all the way, baby. ;)
11:52 mtompset I know... React O/S... it's free and graphical. ;)
11:56 drojf it would probably make more sense for a free and open source library system to be available on non-debian-based linux distributions before more people fall in the battle with/against windows
11:57 drojf but if you insist on something even harder… your choice ;)
11:58 mtompset Actually, to be more realistic RPMs were higher on the list.
12:00 drojf i have a friend that loves opensuse and insists that all is very easy with the suse build system (or what it is called). no idea if that would help with koha
12:00 jcamins dcook uses Koha on OpenSuSE.
12:01 drojf we also started with open suse from a tarball, but i made it give us debian to use the packages
12:02 drojf made IT
12:02 drojf jcamins: but not building rpm packages?
12:02 mtompset I was hoping to aim at CentOS. :)
12:03 drojf mtompset: i know a library in my area that would be very happy
12:03 drojf they might end up with a debian after the workshop though :)
12:03 mtompset That's a future dream right now, drojf. :)
12:04 mtompset I just looked at Vil's website... he points to a third party's Ubuntu installation. :(
12:04 jcamins Who is Vil?
12:05 mtompset The guy pushing live cds.
12:05 mtompset vimal.
12:05 jcamins Vimal.
12:05 mtompset Sorry.
12:07 jcamins What do you mean?
12:07 jcamins (by "third party Ubuntu installation")
12:10 drojf i read that like "third party live cd", but maybe that was not intended
12:20 oleonard joined #koha
12:20 oleonard Hi #koha
12:21 jcamins Good morning, oleonard. Long time, no see.
12:21 drojf hi oleonard
12:22 oleonard My sleep deficit wishes it was longer jcamins
12:23 drojf mtompset: did you come across source code of remastersys by any chance? it says it's GPL but the sf site is empty
12:23 mtompset not Koha's Ubuntu install instructions.
12:24 mtompset It's hidden:
12:26 mtompset Hmmm... can't find the newer version!
12:26 drojf you can only search the forum if you have an account. i think i don't like it
12:26 jcamins drojf:
12:29 drojf ah cool, thanks jcamins. ddg did not know that
12:30 jcamins drojf: nor did Google.
12:30 drojf where did you find it?
12:30 jcamins A forum posting.
12:33 mtompset as long as it wasn't a google group. ;)
12:35 jcamins wtf?
12:44 tcohen joined #koha
12:46 tcohen morning #koha
12:47 drojf oleonard: nice answer on the list, and i suppose we will not here anything more now
12:47 drojf good morning tcohen
12:48 oleonard If anyone didn't hear about it last night, I asked the owner of that Sourceforge Koha Live CD to take down the download and they did
12:49 magnuse yay!
12:50 drojf i thought jcamins send the email *confused*
12:50 drojf oh but you posted a comment i think
12:50 jcamins oleonard: I sent an e-mail.
12:51 oleonard I sent a message through Sourceforge which the owner replied to
12:51 drojf jcamins++
12:51 drojf oleonard++
12:52 * oleonard credits jcamins' email in which kneecap-breaking was insinuated
12:54 cait hm
12:54 cait what did i miss? :)
12:54 cait have no idea what you all are talking about :)
12:55 oleonard cait: Yesterday we were discussing a Koha Live CD available on Sourceforge which was based on 3.2 or something old like that
12:55 drojf we express our love for outdated livecds mainly
12:56 cait aah
12:56 cait I see :)
12:57 edveal joined #koha
12:58 magnuse and there was talk of starting a googlegroup to celebrate the dissemination of outdated kohas on plastic discs :-)
13:00 drojf i propose to have the google group run from a livecd
13:00 drojf you could ask questions without internet access
13:01 magnuse yay!
13:01 drojf and receive about the same amount of useful answers
13:01 cait lol
13:05 drojf but i think we are getting blind sided by ignorance, enough ranting
13:08 mtompset jcamins++
13:08 mtompset oleonard++
13:10 mtompset magnuse: No, no... 8" floppies. ;)
13:10 cait stone tables?
13:10 mtompset Oh yes! yes! Like the fisher price my first record player!
13:10 magnuse hehe
13:11 magnuse and it's not even friday ;-)
13:11 ago43 joined #koha
13:12 * jcamins is trying to write a Bibliographer's Note. That makes it something like Friday.
13:12 mtompset (Starwards My First Record Player Fisher Price)
13:12 mtompset Starwars... DOH!
13:13 magnuse and what, prey tell, is a Bibliographer's Note?
13:14 jcamins magnuse: the note one puts at the beginning of a bibliography to explain *why* weird decisions were made.
13:15 fredericd jcamins: Can you show me a working 3.8 Koha, with MARC21 authority hierachies?
13:15 magnuse jcamins: ah. and writing that turns any day into a pizzaday? cool!
13:15 jcamins fredericd: MARC21 authority hierarchies aren't in 3.8.
13:16 jcamins Just master.
13:16 cait fredericd: have you seen the screenshot and my examples on the bug?
13:16 fredericd cait: no
13:16 cait I couldn't attach records because of the linking, but I noted how I catelogued them in the message
13:17 jcamins fredericd: where exactly are you seeing problems in 3.8?
13:17 NateC joined #koha
13:20 fredericd Parallel forms are not displayed, with language name in front of heading
13:20 fredericd Used for and See also are inverted
13:20 fredericd Semantic relation are not displayed anymore: BT/NT
13:21 fredericd What is the bug number for current work on authorities on master?
13:22 jcamins There are a lot of bugs. Bug 8204 is also in 3.8, but also related are bug 8210 and bug 8523.
13:22 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8204 major, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Authority viewer in OPAC ugly, unfriendly, and mostly useless
13:22 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8210 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Headings in OPAC bib details should link to authority record
13:22 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8523 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Authority hierarchies only support UNIMARC
13:23 cait fredericd: oh :( hope it's all solvable
13:25 jcamins You might also take a look at bug 7943.
13:25 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7943 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, RESOLVED FIXED, Untranslatable strings in OPAC's authority search
13:25 nengard slef around?
13:26 nengard does anyone here know of a tool that will add closed captions to videos on the web? or that will show text as a video is being watched?
13:28 fredericd So it does mean I have to work on master, since I will have to edit code/templates that are in master and not in 3.8.x
13:29 fredericd Is there also pending patch? not yet pushed on master?
13:29 jcamins fredericd: it depends what the problem is, but probably.
13:29 jcamins I think everything has been pushed.
13:29 jcamins I'll check.
13:30 jcamins Yes, everything authority-related has been pushed.
13:30 fredericd I have to modify,, and
13:30 fredericd ok, I continue on master
13:30 jcamins I suspect most of the problem is in C4::AuthoritiesMarc.
13:32 fredericd yes, sometime, the hashref sent to template is not compte, no heading for example...
13:32 fredericd not complete
13:32 slef nengard: hi. I don't know of a subtitling tool. I'm pretty sure mplayer can play subtitle files.
13:32 * wajasu hurray! got my apt-cacher-nq running, and my .deb downloads are fast (4minutes to build a deb VM ,koha-common and perl deps)
13:32 nengard thanks slef
13:33 nengard I have a person who is hard of hearing asking for this for my tutorial videos
13:33 nengard and I have over 100 of them so I can't transcribe them to text now
13:33 slef the evil youtube has CC doesn't it? No idea how well it performs or how you use it.
13:33 nengard it does and it's not that great
13:33 nengard but I might point to that
13:33 trea joined #koha
13:34 slef nengard: aha, mplayer has an option -sub <subtitlefile1,subtitlefile2,...>
13:34 jcamins nengard: Jubler?
13:34 jcamins Not sure if that'll do what you want.
13:34 slef nengard: I'm trying to find the file format
13:35 slef hmm, there's also a -vobsub file option
13:35 talljoy joined #koha
13:37 drojf nengard: so you want to display subtitles or create them?
13:37 drojf s/so/do/
13:39 nengard either or ? or both
13:39 nengard whatever this person needs to be able to watch the videos and "hear" them
13:41 jcamins I'm not certain, but I'd think you'd need to write the subtitles first, which would require them to be transcribed no matter how the subtitles are delivered.
13:42 drojf you can display subtitles in html5 <track> element. it's not really finished and browsers do it all differently or not at all, but there are javascript polyfills that work. i had a patch to do that in koha but i think that died with my git. i used anyway you would have to create the subtitles first
13:42 drojf (and have video that works with html5 video probably)
13:43 jenkins_koha Starting build #865 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
13:43 slef nengard: looks like a better bet than VOB files.
13:44 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8585 follow-up Passing syspref to template <[…]294489b633cfb5853> / Bug 8585 follow-up DBRev number <[…]a11a0cd153ee78e32> / Bug 8585 : Add System Preference to specify Holds to Pull List Start Date <[…]p=koha.git;a=comm
13:45 nengard so it looks like all the options available require me to write the subtitles
13:45 nengard nothing that can try to guess them ? like closed captioning
13:45 nengard i need to restart ? I'll brb
13:45 drojf closed captioning guesses the text in the video?
13:45 slef drojf: no
13:45 drojf i would have been surprised :)
13:46 slef well maybe youtube's might
13:46 slef As I understand it, live TV CC has a control human repeating what is said in the video to a text recognition software trained on them.
13:47 drojf yes that would make sense
13:47 jcamins slef: I think they also have a special type of hardware speech recognizer card.
13:48 oleonard We call that a protocol droid nowadays
13:48 drojf a lot to try[…]ognition_in_Linux
13:49 slef[…]ople-any-favours/
13:49 nengard joined #koha
13:49 nengard back
13:49 slef nengard: <drojf> closed captioning guesses the text in the video?
13:50 nengard yes
13:50 slef Where?
13:50 slef as in, whose closed captioning?
13:50 nengard that's what i always thought
13:50 nengard the closed captioning on our local news is pretty crap
13:50 slef[…]ople-any-favours/ includes "the method by which subtitles are created"
13:50 nengard so i just figured it was a computer
13:50 slef which is my understanding of how they're done in the UK
13:51 slef "made either by a stenographer typing what’s been said onto a phonetic keyboard as they listen to a show, or by speech recognition, where dialogue is repeated more clearly into a microphone during a programme, with a computer automatically recognising the words"
13:51 slef live stuff like news, they have to try to do live
13:52 slef Recorded shows are usually done by typing, maybe using stenography or recognition as a start.
13:52 nengard okay
13:52 nengard so i'm screwed
13:52 slef To be honest, when I've done transcripts, it's almost better to start from scratch with a player that does an easy backskip.
13:52 drojf nengard: maybe[…]cognition_Engines or[…]tware#Open_Source but from my experience (with a closed, commercial product) you have to train these things a lot
13:53 * jcamins wonders briefly whether some of the errors in recorded shows might not be due to steganography rather than stenography. :D
13:53 drojf lol jcamins
13:53 slef I still love "arch bitch of Canterbury"
13:54 slef nengard: depends who's asking, but here we'd have to take reasonable steps to provide subtitles or transcripts.
13:54 slef nengard: expecting 100 videos to be done immediately isn't reasonable, but we'd need to do something.
13:55 wajasu my favorite contradiction of bisness requirements:  a) make website more accessible   b) install captcha to prevent machines from spamming.   thus handicapped use machines to aid in using the web, and have difficulty in accessing sites.
13:55 slef nengard: I'd love to help but we're still working on kohacon12 videos :-/
13:55 nengard slef no one expects it to be done immediately - but i do a video each week
13:55 nengard so goingthrough the backlog and doing the new videos ? i'd have no time for any other work
13:56 slef nengard: do you work from a script?
13:56 nengard heck no
13:56 nengard I suck at reading/referring to scripts
13:56 maximep joined #koha
13:57 slef me too... but I also suck at talking without a script... you may have noticed this ;)
13:57 nengard hehe
13:57 nengard I did not notice
13:57 slef nengard: so slow down to a video a fortnight and use the off-weeks to transcribe?
13:57 nengard i actually don't like listening to people reading from a script
13:58 slef but it's an annoying situation
13:58 nengard i like people just talking to me even if they have to stop and think
13:58 slef oh some people are good at reading scripts
13:58 slef they used to be radio presenters
13:58 slef now we prefer celebrities
13:58 slef bleah
13:58 slef wajasu: captcha doesn't prevent spamming. I think I'll go to lunch rather than rant at you ;) bbl
13:58 jcamins slef: I think that was the point.
14:00 wajasu i was thinking we should write a script with Test::WWW:Mechanize to walk the pages of the entire site, and take a snapshot (as png or such).
14:00 jcamins wajasu: that wouldn't work because WWW::Mechanize does not render anything.
14:01 wajasu so folks have images for slides, and videos, and we can refer to them in tests.
14:02 wajasu well, then use whatever tool that does.
14:06 drojf nengard: there is a linguistics tool called "ELAN" for transcribing field recordings. it has a window showing the video and also shows you the wave of the audio. i never got the wave part to work on linux but have not tried in a while. there is also a windows version. i don't remember what export file options you have.
14:06 drojf you might also search the web for "fansubbing software" or something similar.
14:12 libsysguy joined #koha
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14:26 BigRig_ joined #koha
14:40 jcamins Grr.
14:40 jcamins I'm having trouble with this sentence.
14:40 jcamins Can anyone think of a synonym for gestalt that doesn't sound snooty?
14:43 cait isn't gestalt a german word?
14:43 drojf it doesn't sound snooty in german ;)
14:43 drojf heh
14:43 * cait nods
14:43 cait what is your sentence?
14:44 jcamins cait: I'm in the midst of rewriting it.
14:44 cait shape, figure, form, build, design, likeness, stature
14:44 cait coherent perception :P
14:44 cait says leo
14:45 jcamins Right, it means exactly what I want.
14:46 cait hm?
14:47 * wajasu its interesting that Gestalt Therapy was developed by Fritz Perls.  "perls! get it!
14:51 wizzyrea joined #koha
14:52 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #865: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 9 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/865/
14:52 jenkins_koha * mtompset: Bug 8737 - Incorrect icon at login in staff client
14:52 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8585 : Add System Preference to specify Holds to Pull List Start Date
14:52 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 8585 follow-up DBRev number
14:52 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 8585 follow-up Passing syspref to template
14:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8737 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Master , Incorrect icon at login in staff client
14:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8585 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Pushed to Master , Add System Preference to specify Holds to Pull List Start Date
14:53 * mtompset feels the trickling patches love. :)
14:53 jcamins "In contrast to the first section, the second section's focus is the flourishing of popular interest in gardening, a gestalt that would be obscured by pagination formulæ."
14:54 * magnuse waves to wizzyrea and trea
14:54 trea magnuse greetings!
14:54 magnuse \o/
14:54 mtompset \/o\
14:54 jcamins cait: ^^ my use of "gestalt"
14:55 jcamins I couldn't find a way to get rid of it.
14:55 mtompset O that is dumb. :(
14:55 mtompset /o\
14:55 mtompset Sort of.
14:55 cait aha
14:55 cait sounds... really interesting?
14:56 jcamins cait: not really.
14:56 magnuse or weird?
14:56 wahanui i guess weird is normal after a while :)
14:56 jcamins Mass culture is not really my thing.
14:56 * magnuse ducks
14:56 wizzyrea hi peeps :)
14:56 mtompset Greetings, wizzyrea.
14:56 magnuse hiya wizzyrea
14:56 jcamins But can anyone see how to remove "gestalt" from that sentence without losing the meaning?
14:56 magnuse phenomenon?
14:56 cait I am not sure I get the meaning
14:56 mtompset clarity?
14:56 * magnuse neither
14:57 jcamins The second section consists of 150 books which are entirely uninteresting.
14:57 cait not sure your client woud like oyu writing it like that
14:58 jcamins I am making the rather weak claim that when you look at *all* 150 books, something interesting appears.
14:58 jcamins The only word I know of that means "a whole greater than the sum of its parts" is "gestalt."
14:59 cait hm
15:01 wizzyrea wow that's a weird problem - returning items in dropbox mode and it erases the fine, but leaves no record of it?
15:01 jcamins See? A very problematic sentence.
15:01 jcamins I keep on ending up back where I started.
15:02 mtompset What is wrong with gestalt?
15:02 cait hm rcord like?
15:02 wizzyrea record like in accountlines
15:02 cait ah
15:02 jcamins mtompset: it sounds snooty?\
15:02 cait it just deletes the liine?
15:02 cait I think it used to be like that.. because you pretend the find never happened
15:02 cait probably
15:02 cait so waiving or paying it would be not right
15:03 wizzyrea well, this was for an item tht was several days overdue
15:03 wizzyrea it should only erase one day, not the whole fine?
15:03 * wizzyrea goes to consult the bug db
15:03 cait hm
15:03 mtompset Sounds like a conditional failure?
15:03 jcamins Isn't there a bug about dropbox erasing all fines?
15:03 wizzyrea yea, it does
15:03 wizzyrea bug 8338
15:03 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8338 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , fines not cleared with dropbox mode
15:04 wizzyrea but we aren't on 3.8
15:04 jcamins I thought there was an older bug report.
15:04 wizzyrea some of this stuff on bug 5644 sounds about right too
15:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5644 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Stable , dropbox mode doesn't set the correct date
15:06 tcohen any good sould wanting to test bug 8800 so it is pushed soon?
15:06 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8800 major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , SpecifyDueDate && useDaysMode=Datedue wrong behaviour
15:07 mtompset Greetings, tcohen. :)
15:08 tcohen greetings mtompset
15:09 tcohen only with 8800 we got our due dates set properly
15:11 mtompset Hey, where is our friend, oleonard?
15:12 jcamins Well, I sent it with the word "gestalt" in the introduction.
15:13 mtompset If whoever doesn't like it, then you can worry about revising it.
15:13 drojf jcamins: if it's exactly what you want to say i see no problem with that
15:13 drojf but i'm not really with the use of that word in english so i have no feeling for it
15:13 drojf not really familiar
15:14 tcohen conductism?
15:14 jcamins drojf: yeah. I try very hard to *not* write like everyone else who writes like me (it sounds absurd, but it isn't), but sometimes borrowed words really are the best option.
15:19 mtompset who is everyone else who writes like you?
15:19 mtompset who?
15:19 mtompset Good wahanui didn't learn that.
15:19 mtompset who is everyone else who writes like you, jcamins?
15:21 jcamins mtompset: people who read too much academese.
15:22 jcamins Also, people who use the words "gestalt" and "zeitgeist" in conversation.
15:22 jcamins (and don't speak German!)
15:24 jcamins That set of people tends to overlap with the set of people who use "i.e." and "e.g." correctly, and are bothered when others do not.
15:26 cait jcamins: I can't remember using that words in conversations
15:26 wajasu lol :)
15:26 jcamins cait: apparently you doubly don't write like me. :P
15:27 cait it seems likely
15:27 cait couldn't you use the words you used to describe to us?
15:28 cait that the 150 book shave to be taken as a collection and looked at altogether to grasp their meaningfulness (fill in better word here)
15:28 jcamins I was not having any luck communicating that.
15:29 * wajasu likes my apt-cacher-ng.  my debian preseed builds pull from it just fine.  no need to slam
15:29 drojf funny since i wrote "for example" instead of "e.g." for the first time ever i think (and to my own surprise) somewhere here in the last days.
15:29 koyauni joined #koha
15:29 jcamins It was coming across -- not inaccurately -- as a negative comment on the materials.
15:30 cait hm
15:30 koyauni jcamins, hi, back to our discussion last night on ICU this guys says he has got it to work,[…]nuary/022270.html
15:30 cait while every piece of the collection is <someting postitive> the real interesting stuff begins when... ? :P
15:30 jcamins Yes, many people have gotten it to work.
15:30 cait ok, I am not helping
15:30 * wajasu visions of  "Did you mean this book? (You stupid user)"
15:31 jcamins lol
15:31 koyauni hahah
15:31 * wajasu and I'm going to fine you another $10.00 just being so.
15:32 koyauni well you guys are involve with this application why a vital function such as this should be so painful :)
15:33 asaurat left #koha
15:33 jcamins koyauni: the reason it's difficult is that no one has been paid to make it 100% foolproof yet.
15:34 drojf or volunteered their time
15:34 koyauni I am working to get Koha to google summer code so we can get people to work on part of
15:35 jcamins Right.
15:37 reiveune left #koha
15:40 koyauni the guy provide a link which is not active any more, what do you think he wanted other users to apply
15:41 jcamins koyauni: this:[…]2150b6234bb8c7dbf
15:55 mtompset Well, have a good day (24 hour period), everyone.
15:55 koyauni thanks, in the xml file it says icu_chain locale="fr-FR" do I have to change this to Arabic
15:56 jcamins I do not know.
15:56 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/new/bug_7589' <[…]45fb4f4237adb7b16> / Bug 7589 - tinymce editor broken in .deb packages - in 'en' templates <[…]369194adba24dff0c> / Bug 8454 - Holds to Pull : Show pull list on load. Otherwise, it looks like the pull...
15:58 jenkins_koha Starting build #866 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #864 23 hr ago)
16:01 melia joined #koha
16:03 drojf koyauni: try 'yaz-icu -p l' to see what locales are available
16:03 drojf koyauni: also try 'man yaz-icu' for more information
16:04 koyauni thanks let me check these
16:07 koyauni this guy says that > yaz-icu is installed from the indexdata repository.
16:07 koyauni how do I do this please
16:08 drojf this information is probably from a time when also zebra was installed from the ID repo.
16:08 drojf it should be in the debian repositories
16:09 koyauni when I run yaz-icu -p l -bash: yaz-icu: command not found
16:09 drojf if you have not installed yaz-icu then it won't work
16:09 koyauni can I install it now
16:09 drojf i don't see why not
16:10 koyauni can you please tell the command
16:10 koyauni I have Debian 6
16:10 drojf the same you used to install koha-common
16:11 drojf only with the package name changed
16:11 drojf apt.get install yaz-icu
16:11 drojf apt-get install yaz-icu
16:11 koyauni did not like it apt.get install yaz-icu -bash: apt.get: command not found
16:13 koyauni now worked and there is ar_IQ
16:14 drojf1 joined #koha
16:15 drojf then i guess you shoukd put that in your file
16:16 koyauni can I have several local?
16:16 koyauni I do not see any Kurdish ku-KU
16:18 drojf i suppose you would use one <icu_chain locale> section per locale you want to use
16:18 drojf but it's just a guess
16:18 drojf you might want to start with one and get that working before you try more
16:22 koyauni so can I just copy that section and repeat that then
16:22 jcamins koyauni: we don't know. No one has tried.
16:22 jcamins I would suggest you get it working at all before you worry about trying something new.
16:23 drojf as i said, i dont know. do it for one locale first to see if it works
16:23 drojf it will make finding problems easier
16:23 koyauni I am will be tester here, if works, I will post the instruction
16:23 koyauni lets try with one local first
16:25 wajasu mtj: i was thinking of testing 8253.  i will build a 3.6 environment, generate a fine.   move to master environment, run  see fines doubled, THEN do it all with your patch on master.
16:29 koyauni in this t.idx file in first paragraph
16:29 koyauni[…]2150b6234bb8c7dbf
16:29 koyauni the guy has two set of firstinfield 1, one commented and one not, do you think he has made mistake
16:30 drojf i only see it commented in that file
16:30 drojf oh no
16:30 drojf it its probably about the order. but i dont know
16:31 koyauni in next paragraph it is commented again
16:32 drojf well, i have no idea what that line does. what do you think?
16:32 koyauni first in field 1, it means data in the field maybe
16:33 drojf and do you think it is needed for icu?
16:34 koyauni I leave it there and if it does not work I will comment that and try again
16:35 drojf good idea
16:41 wizzyrea bug 8859 makes me laugh.
16:41 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8859 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Item level holds not trapped if circ rules for item type are set to 'no holds allowed'
16:41 wizzyrea in a
16:41 wizzyrea @quote get 123
16:41 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
16:41 wizzyrea kind of way.
16:42 wizzyrea we should probably just assume that every black or white choice we put into Koha should have an override.
16:42 wizzyrea for the properly privileged user.
16:42 koyauni what does he try to say here , Using root the script is run first with -a and then with -b (I don't know if this was necessary).
16:43 drojf koyauni: who are you talking about?
16:43 koyauni drojf:
16:44 drojf also, all your instructions are really old. reindex your files with the package commands
16:44 drojf and never run rebuild_zebra as root, it will screw up permissions
16:45 drojf never run it at all, use koha-rebuild-zebra
16:45 koyauni I need to refurbish that and I am doing it, what will be common command
16:45 koyauni sudo koha-rebuild-zebra --full -v library
16:46 drojf looks good
16:49 koyauni Nop, search stop working
16:50 koyauni last step he says restart the server, what does that mean?
16:51 drojf restart zebra i suppose
16:51 koyauni I did this sudo /etc/init.d/koha-common restart
16:51 drojf koha-restart-zebra
17:01 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8739 follow-up fixing perlcritic error <[…]6c7ba51d92656bcd4> / Bug 8739 - Partial Fine Payments Saving Amount Paid Incorrectly <[…]7a7fcae225031eb24>
17:04 koyauni it does not work, no HOPE!
17:05 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #866: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/866/
17:05 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8744: Thesaurus in authorities should not lock fields
17:05 jenkins_koha * kyle: Bug 8759 - Add labels for library and sorting on opac advanced search
17:05 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8454 - Holds to Pull : Show pull list on load. Otherwise, it looks like the pull list is empty.
17:05 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8454 - Holds to Pull : Show pull list on load. Otherwise, it looks like the pull list is empty.
17:05 jenkins_koha * mtj: Bug 7589 - tinymce editor broken in .deb packages - in 'en' templates
17:05 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8744 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Master , Thesaurus in authorities should not lock fields
17:05 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8759 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Add labels for library and sorting on opac advanced search
17:05 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8454 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Pushed to Master , Holds to Pull : Show pull list on load. Otherwise, it looks like the pull list is empty.
17:05 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7589 blocker, P1 - high, ---, robin, Pushed to Master , tinymce editor broken in .deb packages - in 'en' templates
17:05 jenkins_koha Starting build #867 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #864 1 day 0 hr ago)
17:06 tcohen wajasu, can u elaborate on your comment for bug 8773?
17:06 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8773 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Add per-instance koha-index-daemon in .deb setup
17:06 tcohen (the respawn until zebradb is initialized)
17:08 koyauni drojf what this can be in common pack command Using root the script is run first with -a and then with > -b (I don't know if this was necessary).
17:09 jcamins koyauni: that was koha-rebuild-zebra --full -v library
17:09 koyauni well I did that and still does not work :(
17:10 jcamins koyauni: It would seem the instructions do not work anymore.
17:11 jcamins They are quite old.
17:18 koyauni I refurbish that per this one
17:18 koyauni is it still old?
17:19 jcamins Yes, instructions from 2010 are old.
17:20 koyauni then we need to work hard to find out how to fix this
17:22 drojf what do you suggest to find out how to make it work?
17:22 Morthland1 joined #koha
17:22 Morthland1 Hey, is there a way to add custom fields for patron data?
17:23 jcamins Morthland1: yes. Enable extended patron attributes.
17:23 jcamins (that's a syspref)
17:23 Morthland1 Allright.
17:25 Morthland1 And then where do I add them?
17:25 wajasu tcohen: 8773 - about the indexer respawn?
17:25 jcamins Morthland1: Administration -> Patron attribute types
17:26 Morthland1 Thanks
17:26 tcohen yeap
17:27 tcohen do u think there shuld be a follow up that inits the zebradb on koha-create?
17:29 oleonard joined #koha
17:29 koyauni Drojf, I think the whole Zebra indexing should only work with UTF-8 for any records it is entered despite the language
17:29 wajasu tcohen: it might be worth it.   my VM builder builds without a hitch, and everything is running out of the box.  but i would hate that if left alone, the respawning would just fill up disk (though maybe its being rotated), and cpu. thinking of vendors hosting in VPS servers here.
17:30 * oleonard waves
17:30 koyauni what is Koha can integrate a google search API instead of Zebra
17:30 tcohen hi oleonard
17:30 tcohen shh, SolR
17:31 jcamins koyauni: someone would have to implement any changes to Koha.
17:32 wajasu tcohen:  it is hard for one to figure out why the respawn happens, and witht he ease of creating db instances...  I am only recalling all this from the Tamil testing.
17:34 tcohen oh, when I tested I didn't notice the respawn thing
17:34 tcohen maybe an old version of tamil code?
17:34 dcook joined #koha
17:34 dcook Morning #koha
17:35 wajasu i just put a note so when you try again just look in the log right after install.  i can't remember with all the retesting of various bugs these days.
17:36 tcohen ok, if it emerges I'll look for patching it
17:36 wajasu great
17:36 oleonard Hi dcook
17:36 tcohen as soon as I finish our dspace upgrade i'll be trying to roll our own .debs
17:37 dcook hey oleonard
17:37 wahanui oleonard is still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
17:37 tcohen for koha-common (for internal use) with these patches applied for further testing
17:39 koyauni jcamins: see what it says the release note of 3.8 search for ICU
17:39 wajasu tcohen: i finally got apt-cacher-ng installed and my VM builder builds koha VM in 4minutes.  so i can test things like this more quickly.
17:39 tcohen is that a mirroring tool?
17:40 dcook (By chance, has anyone tried applying bug 8261. Git bz seems to refuse to delete Is this just an issue on my end?)
17:40 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8261 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , Cannot search system preferences from Local Use tab
17:40 jcamins koyauni: did it work for you out of the box?
17:41 Morthland joined #koha
17:41 drojf koyauni: do you seriuosly suggest to complete rewrite of search based on you having problems with icu? others have done it before, if it is too much work to fiddle around with that for a few days until it works, how would you rewrite the complete search?
17:41 Morthland How can I print Extended Attributes on patron cards?
17:41 tcohen wajasu: we have a local ubuntu mirror here, do u use libvirt + qemu for your VM?
17:42 jcamins Morthland: I'm not sure you can, but I've never tried.
17:43 oleonard Morthland, I think extended patron attributes were added after the patron card creator went in, so I'm guessing you can't, out of the box
17:43 drojf s/complete/completely/
17:43 Morthland I think you are right.
17:43 Morthland I will have to work on a patch.
17:43 Morthland For now I will enter them in as another unused field
17:44 paul_p joined #koha
17:44 Morthland Can I change field descriptions in the create-a-patron page?
17:44 oleonard Morthland, You can using jQuery.
17:44 oleonard jquery library?
17:44 wahanui i heard jquery library was found at[…]ki/JQuery_Library
17:45 oleonard I'll bet there's something there
17:46 Morthland Found the correct Item, how can I use the Jquery?
17:46 oleonard Instructions are at the top of that page Morthland
17:46 shano joined #koha
17:48 oleonard Morthland, do those instructions make sense?
17:49 santy joined #koha
17:49 santy Hi all again! Does anyone have an estimate of the distribution of linux distros used by libraries as platforms for Koha? Is Ubuntu the most used one? Or Debian? How about CentOS or even Redhat?
17:50 jcamins santy: 90%+ Debian or Ubuntu.
17:51 jcamins Beyond that, I don't really know.
17:54 wajasu tcohen: i use libvirt + qemu,  with a bash script that does it all automatically with a preseed.cfg   ( ubuntu can use preseed scripts too).  apt-cacher-ng is fast and i put it in my preseed.fg as a proxy.
17:54 santy thanks jcamins!
17:55 tcohen wajasu, I use: ubuntu-vm-builder kvm precise --domain XXX etc
17:57 wajasu tcohen: my host os is archlinux, so i didn't have apt and friends.  but my script runs on any distro.  and i am about to test lxc containers.
17:57 tcohen sweet wajasu, if u publish it, just let me know
17:58 wajasu tcohen: i am cleaning it up.
18:00 Morthland I'm having a hard time employing this jquery
18:00 oleonard How are you doing it Morthland?
18:00 oleonard Morthland, use to paste the contents of your IntranetUserJS preference
18:01 wajasu tcohen: i bumped my box to 12GB and /tmp is tmpfs (handling about half of mem)  so i generate a new koha-debian-install.iso from the debian squeeze one.  then copy it to /tmp.  then build the kvm in /tmp with libvirt and that iso. it boots first time with web installer ready.
18:01 koyauni in /usr/share/idzebra-2.0/tab/ I found another icu.idx file, I think this is the one which need to be edited
18:01 pastebot "Morthland" at pasted "$("#memberentry_library_manage" (2 lines) at
18:02 koyauni at the top of it it says # ICU indexing for words and phrases.. Otherwise similar # to default.idx .
18:02 bornie21 joined #koha
18:02 drojf koyauni: have you checked idzebra-2.0-doc?
18:02 drojf there is some documentation
18:02 Morthland Oh, I'mseeing my problem
18:03 bornie21 hey everyone is there a way of suspending users in Koha maybe because of misbehaviour or something
18:03 jcamins bornie21: yes, you can restrict users.
18:03 bornie21 how do I do that
18:04 jcamins bornie21: you click the "restricted" checkbox when editing the patron.
18:04 sturmtruppen joined #koha
18:06 bornie21 Ah thanx would you happen to know the database field that makes that possible. We want to restrict users with unpaid tuition based on balances from the accounts dpt
18:06 jcamins I'm not sure. debarred, maybe?
18:07 oleonard borrowers.debarred, and it takes a date
18:07 oleonard Set the date to far in the future if you don't want the restriction to expire
18:07 oleonard (at least in the latest version of Koha)
18:08 bornie21 Yeah I noticed the date data type and that confused me. btw we are using version 3.6
18:08 bornie21 Was kinda of expecting a boolean value
18:09 oleonard The date type allows the "suspension in days" feature, where a patron can be restricted for a certain number of days as a consequence of having overdues
18:09 wajasu khall:  on bug 8253  what if Mason's patch also has     and description NOT like '%23:59'  or  some variation to handle hourly loans existing.
18:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8253 blocker, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Needs Signoff , Fine doubling
18:11 bornie21 k thanx:oleornard
18:11 dcook joined #koha
18:12 khall wajasu: that would cover the case I mentioned in comment 19. The only big problem is it doesn't cover libraries with already duplicated fines. However, I'd rather see his patch get in to prevent future upgraders from having problems. I can post my de-duplication script to the wiki for anyone to use who already has upgraded and has duplicated fines.
18:12 rangi its not for that
18:12 rangi yes, that patch fixes it for people upgrade to 3.8.x
18:13 rangi from before
18:13 santy does anyone know if koha packages are being supported in any way by Canonical?
18:13 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #867: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 8 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/867/
18:13 jenkins_koha * kyle: Bug 8739 - Partial Fine Payments Saving Amount Paid Incorrectly
18:13 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 8739 follow-up fixing perlcritic error
18:13 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8739 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Partial Fine Payments Saving Amount Paid Incorrectly
18:13 cait morning rangi
18:13 rangi and anyone alreay upgraded, it wont affec
18:13 rangi t
18:13 jcamins santy: they are not, no.
18:13 rangi because it changes an call earlier
18:13 rangi the sooner it can go in the better
18:13 rangi then a fix for those who have already upgraded and have duplicates can follow
18:13 wajasu ok: i am just about to test it now.
18:14 khall yeah, i have to agree.
18:14 santy and therefore they are not included by default in their repositories, right?
18:14 rangi khall: can you update the bug to say that please
18:14 pastebot "Morthland" at pasted "$(" (4 lines) at
18:15 jcamins santy: Koha packages are not included in the default Ubuntu repos because they haven't been accepted (or submitted).
18:15 santy ok thanks
18:15 khall sure
18:15 Morthland What do I have wrong here?
18:15 jcamins santy: there is an official Koha apt repo.
18:16 wajasu i'll test it.   then if khall tells me the bug for the post-upgrade  emergency fix tool :)   i'll test that as well, while i'm in the mood.
18:16 santy the one we use for the installation, right?
18:17 jcamins Right.
18:17 drojf joined #koha
18:17 khall wajasu: if you just take my patch and turn it into a stand alone script, that's pretty much it, but I can find my original and post it.
18:17 Morthland Fixed.
18:18 santy During development and bugfixing, everything gets implemented, fixed and tested on Debian/Ubuntu first, and later on other distros, including Centos and Redhat?
18:18 jcamins No.
18:18 jcamins Most developers use Debian or Ubuntu.
18:19 jcamins A couple use other OSes.
18:19 jcamins Any platform-specific bugs are found on Debian or Ubuntu long before they're noticed anywhere else.
18:19 jcamins However, there are very few platform-specific bugs.
18:19 wajasu khall: ok. paste your orignal and i'll write script.
18:20 pastebot "wajasu" at pasted "please review my test plan before i start for 8253" (26 lines) at
18:20 khall I think i've found it
18:20 jcamins There are no RPMs available for Koha, and most people give up before they manage to get Koha working on CentOS or Redhat.
18:21 santy So, there is a chance that platform specific bugs that only affect Redhat for example simply won't get fixed over time
18:21 wajasu khall: check my test plan to see if i'm on the right track.
18:21 jcamins Right.
18:21 jcamins Indeed, I would say it is almost a certainty that Redhat-only bugs are not getting fixed by any current Koha developer.
18:22 khall wajasu: that looks like a great test plan
18:22 santy okay
18:23 wajasu ok
18:35 rangi If it's in plain English its hardly rss anymore :)
18:35 koyauni drojf: I can not find this idzebra things
18:36 * oleonard loves everything about RSS except the fact that the best RSS reader comes with built-in spying
18:36 wizzyrea what's the best reader?
18:37 oleonard Google Reader
18:38 drojf koyauni: maybe you did not install it. apt-get install idzebra-2.0-doc or something like that
18:38 oleonard Alternatively, Google Reader is the worst RSS reader, except for all the others.
18:39 dcook lol
18:39 rangi I still like my cli ones
18:39 rangi But of the saas ones ur right
18:40 rangi It's the best of a bad bunch
18:40 magnuse anyone?
18:40 koyauni it is already installed idzebra-2.0-doc is already the newest version.
19:13 jenkins_koha Starting build #191 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:20 wajasu khall: just confirming. when do the dups show up?  after running in version 3.6 or after an upgrade to 3.8?
19:20 rangi only after an upgrade
19:20 wajasu ok.
19:20 rangi and running fines
19:20 wajasu ok. after running fines after and upgrade.
19:21 rangi yep
19:21 rangi and only if you had fines before in 3.6
19:22 rangi hmm i now count 9 features pushed after feature freeze
19:22 rangi i hope this stops soon
19:23 cait yeah
19:31 paul_p joined #koha
19:31 mtj moring #koha, and hi paul
19:34 cait hi mtj and paul_p
19:34 mtj moring cait
19:53 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #191: SUCCESS in 39 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/191/
19:53 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8581: don't display parentheses when we don't have a type
19:53 jenkins_koha * mtompset: Bug 8350: warning in logs when searching for nonexistent ISBN
19:53 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8581 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Authority display doesn't like GND records
19:53 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8350 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Stable , Searching for a 10 or 13 digit string (with a number in it) that does not exist in one's catalog will fail to affect SQL statement correctly in C4::Breeding
19:53 jenkins_koha Starting build #192 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
20:31 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #192: SUCCESS in 38 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/192/
20:31 jenkins_koha * frederick.capovilla: Bug 8583 : Add a warning if a Z39.50 search is started from biblio edition page.
20:31 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Bug 8711 - alternating colors messed up on reports
20:31 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8744: Thesaurus in authorities should not lock fields
20:31 jenkins_koha * kyle: Bug 8739 - Partial Fine Payments Saving Amount Paid Incorrectly
20:31 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 8739 follow-up fixing perlcritic error
20:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8583 minor, P5 - low, ---, fcapovilla, Pushed to Stable , Add a warning if a Z39.50 search is started from the "Edit biblio record" page
20:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8711 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , alternating colors messed up on reports
20:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8744 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Thesaurus in authorities should not lock fields
20:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8739 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Stable , Partial Fine Payments Saving Amount Paid Incorrectly
21:44 eythian jcamins: I've made live CDs with different configurations that install like normal, it's not very hard. It would be possible to make one that installed the packages. The hard part is things that'll configure everything in a meaningful way.
21:45 jcamins eythian: yeah, but the current livecds don't do a good job of that either, and at least a livecd that installed Debian and the Koha packages would be vaguely supportable.
21:47 eythian yeah. Personally, I think energy is better spent making the regular configuration easier.
21:47 * jcamins agrees.
21:47 eythian Maybe I'll spend some time this week improving the debconf stuff.
21:48 eythian my current migration has a catalogue large enough that the import and rebuild takes an hour or two, giving me some downtime.
21:48 jcamins I was more going to suggest that the people who are so staunchly pro-livecd might create one that can be supported by those of us who answer questions.
21:48 jcamins eythian: ooh! What about enabling DOM and ICU in packages? :D
21:49 eythian that's different :) (and actually would be better after debconf so it can ask what you want by default, then you can use something like 'koha-enable-icu' or whatever to toggle it on an instance basis.
21:49 eythian )
21:49 eythian I don't really know enough about DOM/ICU to do those.
21:49 eythian I should do some experimenting.
21:50 jcamins If you go through Makefile.PL and make, it will generate all the needed configuration files.
21:51 eythian well, I'd need to know how to switch it on a live system.
21:51 jcamins Rerun the installer...
21:51 eythian I'll pretend you didn't say that :)
21:52 edveal left #koha
21:52 jcamins No, actually, for ICU you just change a few lines in one file, if all the configuration files have been installed.
21:52 eythian yeah, that's what I thought.
21:54 jcamins All you change is etc/zebradb/etc/default.idx.
21:54 * cait nods
21:54 eythian yeah, that would be automatable.
21:54 cait not sure why it didn't work for koyauni
21:54 cait maybea missing file
21:54 jcamins cait: missing files.
21:54 eythian that's something else I'd like to implement: something that brings zebra up in debug mode so these problems are easier to see.
21:56 * jcamins thinks there should be a koha-shell command, too.
21:57 eythian that'd be easy enough.
21:57 jcamins Useful for if you want to run link_bibs_to_authorities or the like.
21:57 eythian yeah
21:58 jenkins_koha Starting build #193 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:59 wajasu mtj: ok bug 8253 is done.
21:59 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8253 blocker, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , fix fine doubling, when upgrading from 3.6 to 3.8
22:02 mtj thanks wajasu++
22:02 maximep left #koha
22:03 wajasu mtj: your welcome.
22:04 * wajasu needs a break
22:09 trea left #koha
22:22 wajasu rangi: FYI in my notes for the 8253,[…]ment.cgi?id=12667  i mention an ADD CONTRAINTS error. for 3.6.x to 3.8.x.  just so you are aware.
22:24 rangi yep foreign key error
22:29 cait left #koha
22:34 * rangi hopes no one answers the troll
22:35 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #193: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/193/
22:35 jenkins_koha mtj: Bug 7589 - tinymce editor broken in .deb packages - in 'en' templates
22:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7589 blocker, P1 - high, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , tinymce editor broken in .deb packages - in 'en' templates
23:17 ala_3vo joined #koha
23:24 brylie joined #koha
23:31 * jcamins observes for the record that 380g of green beans are not very filling.

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