| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:03 |
|
|
mtompset joined #koha |
| 01:03 |
|
mtompset |
Good morning, #koha folks! |
| 01:03 |
|
mtompset |
Someone should change the topic, nengard's birthday is over now. :) |
| 01:04 |
|
|
Waylon joined #koha |
| 01:04 |
|
Waylon |
hiya all. |
| 01:04 |
|
Waylon |
is there such a thing as over engineering? |
| 01:05 |
|
Waylon |
sysadmin wants to setup a rather comprehensive RAID 1 and RAID 10 system |
| 01:05 |
|
mtompset |
Technically, yes. |
| 01:05 |
|
mtompset |
In reality, probably not. |
| 01:06 |
|
Waylon |
RAID 1 -- 2 * 75 GB 10K disks -- usable 75 GB for OS |
| 01:06 |
|
Waylon |
RAID 10 -- 4 * 300 GB 10k disks -- usable 600 GB for DB |
| 01:06 |
|
Waylon |
RAID 10 -- 4 * 600 GB 10k disks -- usable 1.1TB for KOHA/Zebra |
| 01:06 |
|
mtompset |
Will it be hot swappable? |
| 01:06 |
|
Waylon |
DB i imagine is just mysql db. |
| 01:07 |
|
Waylon |
koha is koha app and pdf files that are currently about 240 gb total. |
| 01:07 |
|
Waylon |
hmm.. its in a data center. probably is hot swappable but we'd not be doing the swapping. |
| 01:08 |
|
Waylon |
2 dual/quad processors / 12 or 16 GB RAM |
| 01:08 |
|
Waylon |
2 quad processors... hell... |
| 01:08 |
|
mtompset |
more ram = good. :) 1GB is still small, it seems. |
| 01:09 |
|
Waylon |
yes.. 1gb is not enough for koha. |
| 01:09 |
|
Waylon |
but 16?! |
| 01:09 |
|
mtompset |
Depends on how popular your OPAC and Staff Clients are? |
| 01:10 |
|
mtompset |
While watching memory use for our 512MB system... |
| 01:10 |
|
mtompset |
yes, 512MB... |
| 01:10 |
|
mtompset |
I noticed that each request was around 40-50MB. |
| 01:11 |
|
mtompset |
20 searches all at once means 1GB roughly. |
| 01:12 |
|
mtompset |
Now, add a "leak" factor of 1MB... |
| 01:12 |
|
mtompset |
1000 searches means 1GB... it will get freed eventually though. |
| 01:18 |
|
Waylon |
yeah... so i should let the sysadmin do what he wants? |
| 01:18 |
|
mtompset |
Where are you, Waylon? It's Saturday here. |
| 01:19 |
|
Waylon |
new zealand, Saturday too, 1:18 pm |
| 01:19 |
|
mtompset |
Well, you said it was being hosted at a data center. |
| 01:20 |
|
Waylon |
yea |
| 01:20 |
|
Waylon |
sysadmin is ours though, not the data centers |
| 01:20 |
|
mtompset |
If it is at a data center, you probably can't get a simpler set up. |
| 01:20 |
|
Waylon |
ah actually we had a simpiler setup |
| 01:20 |
|
Waylon |
straight 2 hdds, 500 gb each, and 8 gb ram. |
| 01:20 |
|
mtompset |
But the sysadmin had to maintain it. |
| 01:21 |
|
mtompset |
He's trying to simplify his life. |
| 01:21 |
|
Waylon |
simplifiy? |
| 01:21 |
|
mtompset |
He probably doesn't want to have to deal with hardware failures. |
| 01:21 |
|
Waylon |
ha |
| 01:21 |
|
Waylon |
s/ha/ah |
| 01:22 |
|
Waylon |
right. |
| 01:22 |
|
Waylon |
well.. we do have two servers, we were planning to loadbalance across. |
| 01:22 |
|
mtompset |
But he likes dealing with system setup and updating, etc. |
| 01:22 |
|
mtompset |
So, he's trying to outsource the hardware side of his responsibilities. |
| 01:23 |
|
Waylon |
so, this single dedicated server, RAID setup will be preferable to two dedicated servers, simple storage? |
| 01:23 |
|
mtompset |
And if you do a cost analysis, sometimes leasing the car and upgrading and continuing a lease later is cheaper than buying it and trying to keep it going for years. |
| 01:25 |
|
mtompset |
What is the current set up? |
| 01:26 |
|
Waylon |
just simple hdds. |
| 01:26 |
|
Waylon |
8 gb ram. |
| 01:26 |
|
mtompset |
two servers? |
| 01:26 |
|
Waylon |
two machines. |
| 01:27 |
|
mtompset |
consider the cost analysis of running two owned servers vs. one leased one. |
| 01:27 |
|
mtompset |
He's probably had to do some kludgey stuff to set the two machines up, and really would prefer a RAID setup. |
| 01:29 |
|
* Waylon |
did the setup |
| 01:29 |
|
mtompset |
Ah... he's killing your babies. |
| 01:29 |
|
Waylon |
yeah..... that too. |
| 01:30 |
|
mtompset |
What will become of the two machines if he gets his data center-based server? |
| 01:31 |
|
Waylon |
these two servers are already in the data center. |
| 01:31 |
|
Waylon |
so one will just get upgraded.. the other will possibly become its dev/staging server. |
| 01:32 |
|
Waylon |
or just get axed, and get a dev/staging server in one of softlayers other data centers for safety. |
| 01:33 |
|
mtompset |
When did the two machines get initially get set up? |
| 01:36 |
|
Waylon |
ages ago. back when XCP 1.1 came out. |
| 01:36 |
|
mtompset |
Ages? Like >5 years? |
| 01:37 |
|
Waylon |
oh..no... |
| 01:37 |
|
Waylon |
200 days? |
| 01:37 |
|
mtompset |
less than a year?! |
| 01:37 |
|
Waylon |
new sysadmin |
| 01:38 |
|
mtompset |
It's not cost effective to take his suggestions so soon after initial setup. |
| 01:38 |
|
mtompset |
That's my gut feeling. I claim no expertise. |
| 01:38 |
|
Waylon |
considers the dual server system, on XCP, abit of a too complicated. |
| 01:38 |
|
|
drojf joined #koha |
| 01:39 |
|
Waylon |
and thinks that xapi export of the lvm partitions not raw enough. |
| 01:39 |
|
mtompset |
It probably is. He's a sysadmin, suck it up. :P |
| 01:40 |
|
mtompset |
Just for the record, I'm no expert. :) |
| 01:41 |
|
mtompset |
His suggestions are probably good, but it's too soon after initial setup. |
| 01:41 |
|
mtompset |
The costs haven't been amortized yet. |
| 01:42 |
|
Waylon |
well.. we haven't even used it yet. |
| 01:42 |
|
mtompset |
amortized sufficiently. |
| 01:42 |
|
mtompset |
all the more reason to not change. |
| 01:42 |
|
|
melia left #koha |
| 01:42 |
|
Waylon |
he doesn't think that the IO is up to it. based on my sieging of it. |
| 01:43 |
|
Waylon |
god, i wish i never sieged it now. |
| 01:43 |
|
Waylon |
old koha 3.0 sieged at 10 users, 5 second delay each batch... came up with 94% availablity. |
| 01:44 |
|
mtompset |
sieged? |
| 01:44 |
|
Waylon |
siege? |
| 01:45 |
|
mtompset |
slowed down? |
| 01:45 |
|
* mtompset |
is trying to understand the definition. |
| 01:45 |
|
Waylon |
the program that automatedly requests urls, times the responses, tells if a request doesn't get a response. |
| 01:45 |
|
Waylon |
simulates users using hte website. |
| 01:45 |
|
mtompset |
AH. |
| 01:46 |
|
Waylon |
in other words, if 10 users at same time, did searches, one search each 5 seconds, it would only work 94% of the time. |
| 01:46 |
|
mtompset |
tuning? |
| 01:46 |
|
mtompset |
Ah. |
| 01:46 |
|
mtompset |
http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Tuning |
| 01:47 |
|
mtompset |
Did you look into some of the suggestions here? |
| 01:47 |
|
Waylon |
most of which is only usable on koha 3.8 |
| 01:47 |
|
Waylon |
3.0 is a dead horse |
| 01:48 |
|
mtompset |
Sounds like you need to set up a 3.8 system and seige it to prove that the IO is good enough. |
| 01:51 |
|
mtompset |
I still think the costs haven't been amortized sufficiently is probably a good reason not to go with the sysadmin's suggestions. |
| 01:51 |
|
mtompset |
Though, frankly, I like his suggestion. |
| 01:52 |
|
mtompset |
Who paid for the servers? your company or the data center? |
| 01:54 |
|
Waylon |
the servers themselves, data center, the server setup and lease, company. |
| 01:57 |
|
mtompset |
I would argue that the initial setup costs haven't been amortized sufficiently and that there is insufficient data to prove the initial setup inadequate for an upgraded version. |
| 01:58 |
|
mtompset |
Suggest that the initial setup be tested for X months. |
| 01:58 |
|
mtompset |
After the upgrade. |
| 01:58 |
|
mtompset |
If seiging proves it insufficient, then upgrade. |
| 01:58 |
|
mtompset |
If seiging proves it sufficient, upgrade later. |
| 01:59 |
|
mtompset |
by seiging, I mean actual use. |
| 01:59 |
|
mtompset |
not a test program. |
| 02:00 |
|
mtompset |
If you have only had them for 200ish days... then perhaps another 165 days? so 6 months minimum? |
| 02:02 |
|
Waylon |
meh.i can't say anything really.. im only the perl coder. |
| 02:02 |
|
mtompset |
You can point out amortization costs. |
| 02:02 |
|
mtompset |
Let the boss put 2+2 together. |
| 02:03 |
|
Waylon |
though, i can setup a vm with debian squeeze and koha 3.8 and see how it goes. |
| 02:03 |
|
Waylon |
amortization costs? |
| 02:03 |
|
mtompset |
The company has paid $X so far. |
| 02:03 |
|
Waylon |
its kinda been sitting for 200ish days not doing much while i worked on it. |
| 02:03 |
|
mtompset |
That was intended to run for Y years. |
| 02:04 |
|
mtompset |
if you only have it for 6 months out of Y years... that's crazy... |
| 02:04 |
|
mtompset |
to spend $X again every 6 months. |
| 02:04 |
|
mtompset |
because of the whim of a sysadmin. |
| 02:05 |
|
mtompset |
It's like buy a computer. |
| 02:05 |
|
mtompset |
If I pay $2000 for a brand new computer. |
| 02:06 |
|
mtompset |
And buy a new computer every year. |
| 02:06 |
|
mtompset |
I must be amortizing $2000 over 12 months. |
| 02:06 |
|
mtompset |
That is... $166.67 per month. |
| 02:06 |
|
mtompset |
But if I buy a new computer every 5 years... |
| 02:07 |
|
mtompset |
That's only $33.34 every month. |
| 02:07 |
|
mtompset |
You'll want to upgrade a machine between every 3-5 years to keep current and hardware defect free... |
| 02:08 |
|
mtompset |
So as you can see.... that armortization costs 5x as much in my example. |
| 02:09 |
|
Waylon |
i don't think the actual setup costs anything. |
| 02:10 |
|
mtompset |
Okay, then there's no reason to not go with the sysadmin's suggestion, because it won't cost extra. |
| 02:10 |
|
mtompset |
And it will rock your Koha world. |
| 02:12 |
|
mtompset |
If there are costs to change, that would be used in an amortization argument. |
| 02:13 |
|
jcamins_away |
Waylon: to be blunt, who cares if they're being spendthrift? |
| 02:14 |
|
Waylon |
yeah.. im not paying for it... |
| 02:14 |
|
* mtompset |
nods. |
| 02:14 |
|
jcamins_away |
So there you go. |
| 02:15 |
|
Waylon |
but yea, the lease cost will be higher of course. |
| 02:15 |
|
jcamins_away |
"Sounds great, it'll take about six months to reconcile the code enough to move to 3.8." |
| 02:15 |
|
Waylon |
yeah.. not much point in getting the new hardware until then eh? |
| 02:15 |
|
jcamins_away |
Right. |
| 02:15 |
|
Waylon |
six months... |
| 02:16 |
|
jcamins_away |
Waylon: you have a lot of weird custom code. |
| 02:16 |
|
jcamins_away |
That's actually probably an optimistic estimate. |
| 02:16 |
|
mtompset |
Depends on your coding stamina. ;) |
| 02:17 |
|
Waylon |
well.. its actually not many features.. and i did code some of them myself. I don't think it will be too difficult to recode. |
| 02:18 |
|
mtompset |
By the way, greetings, jcamins_away but not really. ;) |
| 02:19 |
|
mtompset |
Hey, with this DEV install... I could actually go looking for NEW reports which need patching. |
| 02:19 |
|
Waylon |
of course |
| 02:19 |
|
Waylon |
and possibly even get paid for it. |
| 02:20 |
|
* mtompset |
feels a wave of coding giddiness coming on. |
| 02:20 |
|
Waylon |
depending on what your boss wants you to be doing. |
| 02:20 |
|
mtompset |
I don't get paid. |
| 02:20 |
|
* jcamins_away |
waves. |
| 02:20 |
|
mtompset |
not in the conventional sense of the word. |
| 02:20 |
|
jcamins_away |
Waylon: did Scotty teach you *nothing*? |
| 02:21 |
|
jcamins_away |
Woohoo! |
| 02:21 |
|
mtompset |
under promise, over deliver. |
| 02:21 |
|
* jcamins_away |
successfully moves /var/lib on a production server onto a different filesystem without any downtime whatsoever. |
| 02:22 |
|
mtompset |
There was probably a few milliseconds, jcamins_away. |
| 02:22 |
|
jcamins_away |
mtompset: yeah, but no one hit the server in that time. |
| 02:23 |
|
Waylon |
how did you manage to move the database without downtime? |
| 02:23 |
|
jcamins_away |
Waylon: I planned ahead and didn't have that in /var/lib. |
| 02:24 |
|
jcamins_away |
It's just Zebra that I put on the wrong filesystem. |
| 02:24 |
|
mtompset |
What does UNCONFIRMED mean? |
| 02:25 |
|
mtompset |
(as a bug status) |
| 02:25 |
|
jcamins_away |
It means no one has tested to confirm the bug exists. |
| 02:25 |
|
jcamins_away |
It's not very commonly used. |
| 02:34 |
|
mtompset |
Giddiness declining... so many bugs. So much uncommon to me. |
| 02:38 |
|
mtompset |
Anyone know why some bug listings are in RED? |
| 02:57 |
|
Waylon |
..... hostgator can't install debian lenny it seems... not going to be fun installing koha 3.0 on squeeze. not even sure if its possible, last time i tried that it did not work i think. libXML version was too high. Moving from one hostgator server to another, to avoid possibly bad hdd, while we sort out the softlayer/3.8 issue. |
| 02:57 |
|
mtompset |
hostgator? |
| 02:57 |
|
Waylon |
yeah.. stupid server management company. |
| 02:58 |
|
Waylon |
their hardware used to belong to theplanet, which got brought out by softlayer. |
| 02:58 |
|
Waylon |
so the hdd we're using is ancient and has failed a few times, requiring reboot and fscking. |
| 02:58 |
|
mtompset |
oh, the joys of company acquisitions |
| 02:59 |
|
Waylon |
so the hostgator management contact datacenter staff, who use the IPMI tools, i imagine. |
| 02:59 |
|
mtompset |
If you had to reboot and fsck several times, shouldn't you replace the drive? |
| 02:59 |
|
Waylon |
can't really afford the extended downtime. |
| 03:00 |
|
mtompset |
you mean it is being used even on weekends? |
| 03:02 |
|
mtompset |
Even a clone to a newer, larger newer drive should take several hours at worst. |
| 03:02 |
|
mtompset |
Then the drive gets swapped in with a boot time down time. |
| 03:03 |
|
mtompset |
So, 2 boot time down times, and the time it takes to clone. |
| 03:03 |
|
mtompset |
That should be less than an 8 hour day. Do it on a weekend, users don't notice. |
| 03:04 |
|
mtompset |
Or do you have users 24x7? |
| 03:07 |
|
Waylon |
its 24x7 |
| 03:08 |
|
Waylon |
university students use it from uni, and from home, via their uni website. |
| 03:09 |
|
jcamins_away |
mtompset: red bugs are higher priority. |
| 03:11 |
|
mtompset |
How often do you have to reboot and fsck? If it happens monthly, I think it a scheduled downtime is in order. |
| 03:12 |
|
mtompset |
Even quarterly probably merits the downtime. |
| 03:13 |
|
mtompset |
Nothing worse than harddrive crashes causing downtime, when scheduled downtime could have prevented it. |
| 03:19 |
|
mtompset |
okay, this is weird: |
| 03:19 |
|
mtompset |
my ( $title, $LINES ) = TransformPrefsToHTML( { $title => $matched_groups }, $searchfield ); |
| 03:19 |
|
mtompset |
how can you use a variable before it is defined?! |
| 03:20 |
|
mtompset |
well, before it is initialized?! |
| 03:23 |
|
mtompset |
AAAAH! |
| 03:23 |
|
mtompset |
$template->param($error) || $template->param( $error => 1); |
| 03:26 |
|
mtompset |
These gems brought to you via grep. :) |
| 03:26 |
|
mtompset |
grep "\$[a-zA-Z]*\s*\=>" `find . | grep -v blib | grep -v "/misc" | grep -v "/var" | grep -v "/t/"` | less |
| 04:26 |
|
mtompset |
Oh that's interesting! The || probably checks in the parameter already exists. But why push it if it got template param'd? Hmmmm.... |
| 05:14 |
|
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brylie joined #koha |
| 05:20 |
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brylie joined #koha |
| 05:42 |
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brylie joined #koha |
| 05:46 |
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| 05:46 |
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| 06:11 |
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adnc joined #koha |
| 06:24 |
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druthb joined #koha |
| 06:50 |
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chris_n` joined #koha |
| 07:07 |
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cait joined #koha |
| 07:44 |
|
mtompset |
Greetings, #koha. |
| 08:41 |
|
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mbalmer joined #koha |
| 08:55 |
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chris_n` joined #koha |
| 09:01 |
|
mtompset |
Is this an automated process, chris_n? |
| 09:11 |
|
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hdl joined #koha |
| 09:15 |
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drojf joined #koha |
| 09:20 |
|
drojf |
bonjour matts. how is the perl workshop going? |
| 09:20 |
|
drojf |
hi #koa |
| 09:20 |
|
drojf |
#koha even |
| 09:21 |
|
matts |
hi ! |
| 09:21 |
|
matts |
It's nice |
| 09:22 |
|
matts |
eiro gave a nice conference yesterday about MARC::MIR |
| 09:22 |
|
matts |
And it's about Data Mining (in french) |
| 09:23 |
|
cait |
hi matts and drojf |
| 09:24 |
|
drojf |
hi cait |
| 09:26 |
|
drojf |
matts: wow, state of the art. cpan has version 0.0 (!) of marc-mir-template :D |
| 09:26 |
|
mtompset |
Greetings all! |
| 09:26 |
|
matts |
^^ |
| 09:28 |
|
drojf |
hi mtompset |
| 09:29 |
|
mtompset |
hi, drojf. |
| 09:30 |
|
mtompset |
What is MARC::MIR? |
| 09:30 |
|
mtompset |
Version 0.0 is the latest on CPAN. |
| 09:30 |
|
mtompset |
http://search.cpan.org/search?[…]3A%3AMIR&mode=all |
| 09:33 |
|
matts |
It's a new module for MARC records handling |
| 09:34 |
|
matts |
I'll ask eiro for his slides |
| 09:34 |
|
matts |
(and post the link here) |
| 09:35 |
|
mtompset |
I am sure there are problems with current methods, but why a new module? (I'm asking to learn, not to criticize) |
| 09:36 |
|
cait |
same question here :) |
| 09:36 |
|
matts |
MARC::Record is definitively not the more elegant way to handle MARC records, right ? |
| 09:37 |
|
matts |
MARC::MIR is meant to be simple and smart |
| 09:37 |
|
mtompset |
But is it mostly aimed at UNIMARC? or does it also incorporate MARC21, NORMARC, etc.? |
| 09:38 |
|
cait |
I am not sure using a new module will solve all problems |
| 09:39 |
|
mtompset |
If I were to implement things from scratch. I'd have MARC::Record... but it would be smart enough to use MARC::Record::<type> |
| 09:39 |
|
mtompset |
Then people could optimize MARC::Record::MARC21 |
| 09:39 |
|
mtompset |
or ::NORMARC |
| 09:39 |
|
mtompset |
or ::UNIMARC |
| 09:39 |
|
matts |
mtompset, it's marc-agnostic |
| 09:40 |
|
mtompset |
really? |
| 09:40 |
|
mtompset |
How can it be? |
| 09:41 |
|
mtompset |
Because all the processing logic for something like KOHA is marc-dependent. |
| 09:42 |
|
matts |
Hmm... It's just a way to manipulate records... What you put in it doesn't really matter, does it ? It's *how* you in it that is relevant, no ? |
| 09:42 |
|
matts |
you *put stuff* in it |
| 09:42 |
|
mtompset |
I can generally agree with that. |
| 09:42 |
|
drojf |
its just about "there is a field, it has subfields" i guess. it does not care what you use the fields for |
| 09:42 |
|
mtompset |
Right. |
| 09:43 |
|
matts |
yeah, but the fun stuff about this module is that you can define a bibliographic framework |
| 09:43 |
|
matts |
and then manipulate your records like : author="Author" and not XXX$X = "Author" |
| 09:43 |
|
mtompset |
so that it would prevent invalid data from being added? |
| 09:44 |
|
cait |
matts: but it's not as easy as that with marc |
| 09:44 |
|
cait |
because there is more than one field for that |
| 09:45 |
|
|
Markus2 joined #koha |
| 09:45 |
|
cait |
hi Markus2 |
| 09:45 |
|
mtompset |
could you give an example, cait? |
| 09:45 |
|
mtompset |
I'm trying to learn. :) |
| 09:46 |
|
cait |
well |
| 09:46 |
|
cait |
an author must not be a person |
| 09:46 |
|
cait |
it could also be a corporate |
| 09:46 |
|
cait |
and there could be more than one author |
| 09:46 |
|
cait |
so you would have 2 different fields |
| 09:46 |
|
cait |
and corporates and persons go in different fields |
| 09:46 |
|
cait |
and so on |
| 09:47 |
|
mtompset |
but would that be an example of a repeatable subfield? |
| 09:47 |
|
drojf |
that's why we have these crazy marc things in the first place ;) |
| 09:47 |
|
matts |
cait, yeah you're right... But marc::mir is really a young project (v0.0, right ?) and i don't know how far the implementation has been done... But the concept behind it is interesting |
| 09:47 |
|
mtompset |
That much is true. :) |
| 09:48 |
|
rangi |
mtompset: no, those are whole different fields, some of which are repeatable, some are repeatable fields with repeatable subfields even |
| 09:48 |
|
matts |
there's a lightweight tutorial here : http://search.cpan.org/~marcc/[…]/MIR/Tutorial.pod |
| 09:49 |
|
cait |
sorry mtompset overread your questions |
| 09:49 |
|
cait |
yes, rangi is right |
| 09:49 |
|
cait |
totally different fields |
| 09:49 |
|
cait |
i am not really a marc21 expert, jcamins could probably tell you a lot more about that :) |
| 09:49 |
|
drojf |
oh that was rangi. i read his sentence in cait's voice :) |
| 09:50 |
|
cait |
lol |
| 09:50 |
|
* mtompset |
laughs, "Me too!" |
| 09:52 |
|
rangi |
ed summers who works at library of congress and who wrote MARC::Record could tell us all :) |
| 09:52 |
|
mtompset |
With that sort of praise, jcamins sounds like a Koha deity. :) |
| 09:52 |
|
cait |
he is a cataloging deity at least :P |
| 09:53 |
|
mtompset |
He helped me get my DEV install up and running. |
| 10:05 |
|
|
Oak joined #koha |
| 10:18 |
|
Markus2 |
does anyone use koha in a production VM'ed enviroment? |
| 10:19 |
|
cait |
hm yes |
| 10:19 |
|
Markus2 |
you cait? |
| 10:20 |
|
cait |
yeah, but I am not the server administrator - so can't tell you much abou tit |
| 10:20 |
|
Markus2 |
bummer. |
| 10:20 |
|
Markus2 |
any IO bottleneck? |
| 10:21 |
|
Markus2 |
hmm.. whats your cpu/ram/disk setup |
| 10:21 |
|
Markus2 |
? |
| 10:21 |
|
cait |
sorry, no idea :) |
| 10:28 |
|
mtompset |
we do. |
| 10:28 |
|
mtompset |
But we are only using 512MB, and it is awful! |
| 10:28 |
|
mtompset |
We are looking to increase the ram. |
| 10:29 |
|
|
asaurat joined #koha |
| 10:30 |
|
mtompset |
I just VM'd the same data on a dual core dual threaded ATOM at 1.5GHz and gave it 1GB... it still seems like not quite enough. |
| 10:30 |
|
mtompset |
cait, if you have a command prompt on your koha server... free -m |
| 10:30 |
|
mtompset |
that should tell you total, used, and free memory for your system. |
| 10:31 |
|
cait |
mtompset: can't access them - sorry |
| 10:31 |
|
mtompset |
then who set up your koha? |
| 10:31 |
|
cait |
my coworkers take care of that :) |
| 10:32 |
|
mtompset |
so you are more of a librarian type than a programming type. |
| 10:32 |
|
cait |
well, yes |
| 10:33 |
|
mtompset |
I sense there's more than the simple dichotomy I provided. |
| 10:33 |
|
cait |
I think dividing into librarians and programmers don't always work |
| 10:34 |
|
cait |
or doesn't always work |
| 10:35 |
|
|
huginn joined #koha |
| 10:36 |
|
mtompset |
no, because people are multiskilled. |
| 10:36 |
|
mtompset |
Well, yes, I agree. |
| 10:37 |
|
rangi |
and it's a sysadmins job to look after servers anyway, not a programmer :) |
| 10:37 |
|
rangi |
and now im going to bed |
| 10:40 |
|
mtompset |
computer geek of some kind. :P |
| 10:41 |
|
mtompset |
Have a good night. |
| 10:42 |
|
cait |
good night rangi |
| 11:34 |
|
|
hdl joined #koha |
| 11:35 |
|
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asaurat joined #koha |
| 11:49 |
|
mtompset |
Sweet! Thank you! 3.9.X has div.gradient! |
| 11:49 |
|
mtompset |
My styling nightmares with 3.6.3 will be lessened. |
| 11:56 |
|
cait |
heh |
| 11:58 |
|
mtompset |
Is anyone who is a CSS expert here? |
| 11:58 |
|
mtompset |
I'm trying to understand the staff-global.css |
| 12:00 |
|
mtompset |
Do you understand CSS, cait? |
| 12:00 |
|
cait |
sometimes |
| 12:00 |
|
cait |
I haven't used gradients much yet |
| 12:00 |
|
mtompset |
Do you understand why h1#logo is given 4 sections in staff-global.css? |
| 12:01 |
|
cait |
um, probably not :) |
| 12:02 |
|
mtompset |
Because I don't ever remember needing multiple sections, but perhaps CSS has changed that there is a reason. |
| 12:02 |
|
cait |
and the selectors are the same for all 4? |
| 12:02 |
|
mtompset |
No. |
| 12:02 |
|
mtompset |
And some of them are the same, but different values. |
| 12:03 |
|
mtompset |
Quite confusing for a lay person in CSS. |
| 12:03 |
|
cait |
if the seelctors are not the same, there will be a reason I guess :) |
| 12:03 |
|
cait |
anyway |
| 12:04 |
|
cait |
don#t change anything in there |
| 12:04 |
|
cait |
if you want to change something |
| 12:04 |
|
cait |
overwrite the statements by using opacusercss or one of the other related system preferences |
| 12:04 |
|
cait |
and firebug is your friend |
| 12:04 |
|
mtompset |
firebug, yes. |
| 12:04 |
|
mtompset |
This is the staff client I'm trying to theme. |
| 12:05 |
|
mtompset |
the OPAC side styling worked rather well without tweaks. |
| 12:07 |
|
mtompset |
oleonard pointed me at some sysprefs for that. |
| 12:07 |
|
mtompset |
but I figured I'd read the staff-global.css which I tweaked before and try to understand it first. |
| 12:08 |
|
mtompset |
last time, I just got it working without thinking. |
| 12:08 |
|
mtompset |
well, tweaked a copy of, and used the syspref to point at it. |
| 12:09 |
|
cait |
hm never done much tweaking of the staff side |
| 12:11 |
|
mtompset |
Greetings, matts. |
| 12:15 |
|
mtompset |
Okay... misread the CSS and after reading W3 documentation... there's only TWO h1#logos that I don't understand. :) |
| 12:49 |
|
* mtompset |
grumbles about cascading. |
| 12:49 |
|
mtompset |
overrode the logo no problem. |
| 12:49 |
|
mtompset |
but text height? Noooooo.... I don't understand cascading order rules. |
| 12:50 |
|
mtompset |
Shouldn't the inline over-ride the staff-global.css period?! |
| 12:50 |
|
cait |
yes, an inline style should override everything else |
| 12:50 |
|
cait |
that#s why inline styles are evil |
| 12:50 |
|
mtompset |
Greetings, jcamins. |
| 12:50 |
|
jcamins |
You're right. You cannot send a cart if you're not logged in in 3.6. |
| 12:50 |
|
* jcamins |
is not sure how he feels about this. |
| 12:51 |
|
jcamins |
Good time of day. |
| 12:51 |
|
mtompset |
who is the send a cart message for? |
| 12:52 |
|
cait |
I think there are different use cases |
| 12:52 |
|
jcamins |
mtompset: in the OPAC. |
| 12:52 |
|
cait |
one of our libraries uses it to have students mail them books they want them to get ready for them |
| 12:52 |
|
cait |
or you can send yourself a cart with a list of books you want to get from the library |
| 12:52 |
|
cait |
or a friend |
| 12:52 |
|
cait |
or wahtever |
| 12:52 |
|
jcamins |
If you find a book you're interested in, you can add it to your cart and e-mail it to yourself. |
| 12:55 |
|
mtompset |
jcamins, why does my inline h1#logo override the background image fine, but my h1#logo a doesn't override the text height? |
| 12:56 |
|
jcamins |
mtompset: because the text height is set on h1#logo > span. |
| 12:56 |
|
mtompset |
Where is that in staff-global.css?! |
| 12:57 |
|
jcamins |
That was a guess. |
| 12:58 |
|
jcamins |
We could use a mailto: link, I suppose. |
| 12:58 |
|
Waylon |
Hmmmmmmmmm.. |
| 12:58 |
|
cait |
jcamins hm? |
| 12:58 |
|
jcamins |
cait: for non-authenticated users to send carts. |
| 12:58 |
|
cait |
ah |
| 12:58 |
|
cait |
yeah but there are problems with that |
| 12:58 |
|
cait |
they have to be at a computer with a mail client |
| 12:59 |
|
jcamins |
mtompset: h1#logo > a |
| 12:59 |
|
cait |
and how do you get the informatoin into the mail? |
| 12:59 |
|
|
hdl joined #koha |
| 12:59 |
|
jcamins |
mailto: link. |
| 12:59 |
|
cait |
I tried recently and had a lot of problems with encoding :( |
| 12:59 |
|
jcamins |
Make T::T URLencode it. |
| 13:01 |
|
Waylon |
sysadmin wants to create a single Golaith of a server. when Davids are enough. I also raised the point about server failure/boot fail "based from our exp. the only thing likely to fail is the Hardisk, if we provide redundancy in this level we have nothing much to worry. in our present XCP / VM / LB / glusterFS / sync scripts / cronbal ..... There is more chance for something to fail than in a single server.. The best way is to keep th |
| 13:01 |
|
Waylon |
ings simple..." -sighs- I guess we're going to have a Goliath. |
| 13:01 |
|
jcamins |
Waylon: so? As long as it works. |
| 13:01 |
|
cait |
@wunder Konstanz |
| 13:01 |
|
huginn |
cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 30.9°C (3:00 PM CEST on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady). |
| 13:01 |
|
* cait |
does not want to go out there |
| 13:02 |
|
cait |
too warm for me already |
| 13:02 |
|
Waylon |
yeah. going to be a bugger to back up. but i guess thats not my responsibility anymore eh? |
| 13:02 |
|
mtompset |
Particularly the DB dump. :) |
| 13:03 |
|
mtompset |
I think I figured out why: !important. |
| 13:03 |
|
mtompset |
How do I override a !important? |
| 13:04 |
|
* mtompset |
jumps for joy, "!important overrides!" |
| 13:04 |
|
Waylon |
forget the db dump, mtompset .. try 250 gb of pdf files. |
| 13:06 |
|
mtompset |
rsync |
| 13:06 |
|
mtompset |
If they don't change, the rsync is minimal. |
| 13:06 |
|
jcamins |
mtompset: in principle if you add !important to your alternatives, that should fix it. |
| 13:07 |
|
jcamins |
In practice there are some things that certain browsers just won't override. |
| 13:07 |
|
mtompset |
Yes, it did. That's why I jumped for joy. :) |
| 13:07 |
|
mtompset |
I'm overriding height. |
| 13:07 |
|
mtompset |
I think browsers will let me. :) |
| 13:11 |
|
mtompset |
I am much happier with the styling layout of 3.9.x than 3.6.3 |
| 13:12 |
|
mtompset |
On our 3.6.3 production system I copied staff-global.css and tweaked it. |
| 13:13 |
|
mtompset |
How would I do something similar on my DEV install without triggering that extra file to upload? |
| 13:13 |
|
jcamins |
mtompset: you just copy the file and don't add it to git. |
| 13:14 |
|
mtompset |
But it will list it as a modified file. |
| 13:15 |
|
jcamins |
Yes. |
| 13:15 |
|
jcamins |
That's okay. |
| 13:15 |
|
mtompset |
Nevermind... I have an idea. |
| 13:15 |
|
mtompset |
I configured the default apache to run on 4080. |
| 13:16 |
|
mtompset |
I can put it there. |
| 13:18 |
|
mtompset |
and that isn't inside my git repositories. |
| 13:18 |
|
mtompset |
YAY! |
| 13:18 |
|
mtompset |
okay... last question, and then I'll probably start shutting down for the evening. |
| 13:18 |
|
mtompset |
I have all these branches now. |
| 13:19 |
|
mtompset |
plus my master branch. |
| 13:19 |
|
mtompset |
if I git pull with my master branch selected, will that affect my other branches? |
| 13:20 |
|
jcamins |
No. |
| 13:20 |
|
jcamins |
Moreover, don't use git pull. |
| 13:20 |
|
jcamins |
Use git fetch, then git rebase |
| 13:21 |
|
mtompset |
so on my master before I make a patch branch, git fetch, git rebase, then git checkout -b bug_XXXX origin, edit whatever, git add whatever, git commit, git format-patch origin -o ~ |
| 13:22 |
|
jcamins |
You don't need to rebase your master branch at all. |
| 13:23 |
|
mtompset |
so if my master is out of date, and I already made a patch branch.... git fetch, git rebase before the edit whatever? |
| 13:23 |
|
jcamins |
Right. |
| 13:24 |
|
mtompset |
when I select my master, will it have changed? or do I still have to git fetch? |
| 13:24 |
|
mtompset |
What is the difference between git fetch and git pull? |
| 13:24 |
|
jcamins |
git fetch downloads the changes and does not apply them to any master. |
| 13:25 |
|
jcamins |
git pull merges in the changes. |
| 13:25 |
|
jcamins |
cait's workflow is to do a git pull on the mater branch, then rebase all the topic branches. |
| 13:25 |
|
* jcamins |
just learned this. |
| 13:27 |
|
mtompset |
any master? |
| 13:27 |
|
jcamins |
What do you mean any master? |
| 13:27 |
|
jcamins |
You should only have one "master" branch. |
| 13:27 |
|
mtompset |
That's what I am asking you. |
| 13:27 |
|
mtompset |
you said, "does not apply them to any master" |
| 13:28 |
|
|
cait joined #koha |
| 13:29 |
|
jcamins |
I meant branch. |
| 13:29 |
|
jcamins |
Sorry. :) |
| 13:29 |
|
jcamins |
No breakfast or caffeine yet today. |
| 13:30 |
|
cait |
mmh brunch? |
| 13:30 |
|
mtompset |
Good Lord! Drink some caffeine! |
| 13:30 |
|
mtompset |
Pizza and coke is the breakfast of coding champions. |
| 13:32 |
|
mtompset |
Though a doughtnut and coffee/tea/iced cappucino from Tim Hortons would be good too. But you probably don't have one locally there. |
| 13:33 |
|
mtompset |
Dear Timmies, please open one in the Philippines. Preferably in Santa Cruz, Laguna. :) Thanks, Mark |
| 13:33 |
|
mtompset |
There are things you miss when you are not in your home country. |
| 13:38 |
|
mtompset |
Do you get July 4 off, jcamins? |
| 13:40 |
|
jcamins |
Not as such. |
| 13:46 |
|
|
drojf joined #koha |
| 13:48 |
|
mtompset |
Long weekend? |
| 13:49 |
|
Waylon |
"LVM is good, there is another option for backup from r1soft.com available ." any comments about r1soft? |
| 13:49 |
|
mtompset |
Never heard of them. Can't comment, sorry. |
| 13:50 |
|
jcamins |
mtompset: I have my own business. |
| 13:53 |
|
mtompset |
Ah... Business owners get "no" holidays. :( |
| 13:55 |
|
jcamins |
Right. |
| 14:02 |
|
|
mbalmer_ joined #koha |
| 14:03 |
|
mtompset |
There generated a partial patch for a styling enhancement for the staff client. :) |
| 14:03 |
|
mtompset |
bug 8339 |
| 14:03 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8339 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , div id="login" should be id="login_controls" in header.inc |
| 14:04 |
|
mtompset |
languages make a patch like that harder. |
| 14:05 |
|
mtompset |
or does the installing of other languages convert the English CSS and INCLUDE files? |
| 14:05 |
|
jcamins |
The inc files will be translated. |
| 14:05 |
|
jcamins |
There should not be any linguistic content in the CSS files. |
| 14:06 |
|
mtompset |
Thankfully, no strings to translate in the patch. |
| 14:07 |
|
mtompset |
It's strange that no one really noticed this, because staff-global.css is over-ridden by login.css at the login screen, but becomes the default once you are logged in. |
| 14:08 |
|
mtompset |
Well, it's not strange... |
| 14:08 |
|
jcamins |
Oh, I see what you're asking about. |
| 14:08 |
|
jcamins |
All the other languages are translated from English. |
| 14:08 |
|
jcamins |
@wunder 11375 |
| 14:08 |
|
huginn |
jcamins: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 28.9°C (9:32 AM EDT on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.75 in 1007 hPa (Rising). Heat advisory in effect from 1 PM this afternoon to 7 PM EDT this evening... |
| 14:08 |
|
jcamins |
@wunder Konstanz |
| 14:08 |
|
huginn |
jcamins: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 30.7°C (4:05 PM CEST on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady). |
| 14:09 |
|
|
drojf joined #koha |
| 14:09 |
|
* mtompset |
laughs. |
| 14:09 |
|
mtompset |
One has a heat advisory, the other doesn't, but the Germany one is hotter. |
| 14:10 |
|
jcamins |
mtompset: yeah, but it's going up another 15 degrees. |
| 14:10 |
|
jcamins |
Well, 8 degrees Celsius, I guess. |
| 14:10 |
|
mtompset |
36C? |
| 14:10 |
|
jcamins |
I'll check that I got my math right. |
| 14:10 |
|
mtompset |
@wunder MNL |
| 14:10 |
|
huginn |
mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 24.0°C (10:00 PM PHT on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising). |
| 14:11 |
|
jcamins |
Yup. |
| 14:11 |
|
cait |
the problem here is humidity |
| 14:11 |
|
cait |
hope we get some rain later tonight |
| 14:11 |
|
mtompset |
No, the problem HERE is humidity. :) |
| 14:11 |
|
cait |
they said they will be, but it sure doesn't look like it |
| 14:12 |
|
cait |
true :) |
| 14:12 |
|
mtompset |
But I know what you mean. :) |
| 14:12 |
|
cait |
well, I am not used to it and it's too warm for my liking |
| 14:13 |
|
mtompset |
What's worse is when my term is up... going back to Canada... my skin dries up and starts to crack, because it has adapted to the more humid climate. |
| 14:13 |
|
mtompset |
I'm glad moisturizers exist! |
| 14:13 |
|
cait |
ouch |
| 14:13 |
|
drojf |
@wunder berlin, germany |
| 14:13 |
|
huginn |
drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 27.8°C (3:43 PM CEST on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 41%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady). |
| 14:15 |
|
mtompset |
Well, have a good day (24 hour period), folks. I need to get to bed at a regular hour. |
| 14:15 |
|
cait |
good night mt |
| 14:15 |
|
cait |
mtompset: |
| 14:15 |
|
cait |
autocomplete failing me :) |
| 14:16 |
|
* mtompset |
smiles. |
| 14:16 |
|
* mtompset |
waves. |
| 14:47 |
|
|
fredericd joined #koha |
| 15:07 |
|
|
mbalmer_ joined #koha |
| 15:38 |
|
|
adnc joined #koha |
| 17:50 |
|
cait |
@wunder Konstanz |
| 17:50 |
|
huginn |
cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 28.0°C (7:45 PM CEST on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 65%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady). |
| 17:51 |
|
cait |
clear? there is storm and rain! |
| 18:00 |
|
drojf |
:D |
| 18:01 |
|
cait |
@wunder Konstanz |
| 18:01 |
|
huginn |
cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 24.6°C (8:00 PM CEST on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 19.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady). |
| 18:04 |
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drojf |
a drastic weather change in 15 minutes ;) |
| 18:06 |
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cait |
still not really true :) |
| 18:06 |
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cait |
@wunder Konstanz |
| 18:06 |
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huginn |
cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 24.0°C (8:00 PM CEST on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Thunderstorms and Rain. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Falling). |
| 18:06 |
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drojf |
just wait a few minutes |
| 18:06 |
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drojf |
haha |
| 18:06 |
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cait |
yep |
| 18:06 |
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cait |
now |
| 18:06 |
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cait |
ok, back to reading it law :) |
| 18:06 |
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drojf |
how far is tagerwilen from konstanz? or is it a part of it? |
| 18:08 |
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drojf |
it law? like urheberrecht? nice weekend reading ;) |
| 18:26 |
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mbalmer_ joined #koha |
| 18:30 |
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cait joined #koha |
| 18:31 |
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cait |
hm |
| 18:32 |
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cait |
drojf: laptop shut down |
| 18:33 |
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cait |
yes, urheberrecht, patentrecht, vertragsrecht, softwarerecht... my new course for the distance study |
| 18:34 |
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mbalmer_ |
naja, das meiste davon ist eher unrecht als recht... |
| 18:35 |
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cait |
bislang macht es noch sinn |
| 21:10 |
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cait |
@wunder Konstanz |
| 21:10 |
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huginn |
cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 19.0°C (11:00 PM CEST on June 30, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Rising). |
| 21:15 |
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rangi |
@wunder nzwn |
| 21:15 |
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huginn |
rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 5.0°C (9:00 AM NZST on July 01, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.33 in 1027 hPa (Steady). |
| 22:06 |
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| 22:26 |
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Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha for discussion of the Koha ILS http://koha-community.org |
| 22:50 |
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rangi |
http://jon.geek.nz/2012/06/115/ |
| 22:50 |
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cait |
nice! |
| 22:51 |
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rangi |
yup pretty cool :) |
| 23:22 |
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