IRC log for #koha, 2012-04-24

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:14 chris_n hi eythian
01:49 Soupermanito left #koha
02:12 melia left #koha
02:36 paul_p joined #koha
02:44 rangi hi paul_p, awake early
02:44 paul_p rangi yep( 4:45AM )
02:45 paul_p I came to publish the announcement of the release.
02:45 rangi beat ya
02:45 rangi :)
02:45 paul_p but it seems you made it already
02:46 rangi yep, had already had 46 downloads by the time i did it too
02:46 rangi everyone thought you had left for leave, so i asked if i should send an email, with your release notes
02:49 paul_p rangi the display of the announcement on the website is a quite ugly and I can't modify it. Could you give me access ?
02:49 rangi shift refresh
02:49 rangi to get the new css
02:49 rangi and no, only wizzyrea can give you access
02:50 paul_p OK, it's a little bit better
02:52 mtj hiya paul_p , congrats, well done!
02:52 paul_p hi mtj & congrats to everyone !
02:53 rangi yeah, i can't see how I can give you access i think you have to be a superadmin for that or something
02:54 Oak joined #koha
02:54 Oak kia ora #koha
02:55 rangi hi Oak
03:06 Oak hello rangi :)
03:07 * Oak going out to drop his sister at work
03:17 rangi paul_p: one other thing for 3.10, we should get in soon, is the jquery update .. so we have lots of time to shake out any bugs
03:18 rangi we are using a pretty old jquery one .. so i'd expect a few weird things
03:18 paul_p rangi = "we should get in soon" => you plan to submit a patch or hope/expect someone will do it ?
03:20 rangi theres a patch already, i think chris_n and oleonard will do it
03:21 chris_n paul_p: I plan on stirring that pot tomorrow afternoon a bit
03:21 chris_n it needs to be done asap imho
03:21 chris_n g'mornig btw
03:21 chris_n morning even
03:22 chris_n there is also a css bug which oleonard will hopefully submit a patch for
03:22 * chris_n must go to bed now
03:22 chris_n bbl
03:23 chris_n btw, congrats on the release paul_p
03:23 rangi yep congrats :)
03:43 rangi i wonder if we can get rid of yui too, that would be awesome
03:50 mtj quick Q, whats the new table-sorter in Koha called?
03:51 rangi datatable
03:51 mtj tableSorter.js ?
03:51 mtj perfect ;)
03:52 mtj ooh, looks pretty  ->
04:10 paul_p rangi = about getting rid of YUI, owen made some progress in this direction.
04:10 rangi *nod*
04:10 paul_p OK, time to switch my computer off. Bye guys, see you later !
04:11 rangi have a good break, you deserve it
04:12 mtj cya paul, have a good one :)
04:21 mtj hmm, this page needs updating ->
04:22 mtj does anyone from have perms to do that?
04:27 rangi No, but submit a a bug anyone can do that
04:28 rangi Only fsf can edit but anyone can submit a change request
04:30 mtj ah yep, submittng a change now :)
04:46 eythian aww, I get bug 8001 - just missed out.
04:46 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8001 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, ASSIGNED , Add some styling to the tags to allow them to be distinctive
04:50 rangi Heh
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05:08 cait joined #koha
05:08 cait good morning #koha
05:09 eythian hi cait
05:10 Oak good morning cait
05:10 Oak hello Mr. Robin
05:10 eythian hi Oak :)
05:10 Oak :)
05:11 cait hi eythian and Oak :)
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05:36 vkm dear all koha users and developers congrates for new 3.8 release
05:41 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.0, 3.6.4 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 2 May 2012 at 2:00 UTC+0
05:42 Topic for #koha is now Koha
05:42 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.0, 3.6.4 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 2 May 2012 at 2:00 UTC+0
05:43 Topic for #koha is now Koha
05:43 vkm When live installation cd will be available?
05:43 vkm for 3.8
05:44 Topic for #koha is now Koha
05:44 eythian mtj: I think you just made it worse :)
05:44 Topic for #koha is now Koha
05:44 mtj heh
05:45 rangi vkm: the release team don't do that, you'd have to ask whoever it is who makes them
05:45 Topic for #koha is now Koha
05:46 cait vkm: or perhaps consider installing it yourself, people can help you easier then too
05:46 * eythian hopes to make packages tomorrow
05:47 vkm how long should i wait for complete package and installation of 3.8 as i am new to koha
05:47 Topic for #koha is now Koha
05:48 Topic for #koha is now "Koha
05:49 Topic for #koha is now Koha
05:51 Topic for #koha is now 3.8.0,
05:52 mtj well, obviously my brute-force technique isn't doing to well here... :)
05:53 * mtj restarts irc-client, tries again...
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05:54 Topic for #koha is now 3.8.0,
05:54 cait hi laurence
05:54 laurence hi cait
05:55 Topic for #koha is now '3.8.0,
05:59 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.0, 3.6.4 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 2 May 2012 at 2:00 UTC+0
05:59 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.0, 3.6.4 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 2 May 2012 at 2:00 UTC+0
06:00 mtj bizarre... i'm officially blaming that on a colloquy bug
06:01 mtj but haaaay, got there in the end ;)
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06:10 Judit hi
06:11 eythian hi Judit
06:24 alex_a bonjour
06:36 cait hi Judit and alex_a :)
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06:48 vkm for importing should i use shelving location code in marc format against item like for book we use BK?
06:50 magnuse kia ora #koha
06:54 magnuse ooh, 8000th bug
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07:01 gaetan_B hello #koha
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07:11 esofiane Hello #koha
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07:22 samuel hello everybody! congratulations for the new release :-)
07:32 kf joined #koha
07:32 kf good morning #koha
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08:05 magnuse so how do you help out a librarian who wants to use koha, but needs to do hostinh in house because of confidential materials that should be catalogued in koha, and whose it department does not "know linux"?
08:05 kf hm
08:05 magnuse ask them to investigate running linux in a virtual machine on windows?
08:05 kf well... guess there are worse things
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08:34 drojf hi #koha
08:36 kf hi drojf
08:37 drojf good morning kf
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08:43 kf grrr
08:43 drojf ?
08:43 kf I am trying to change the height of anelement with jquery
08:43 kf as result of a click on something else
08:43 * magnuse hands kf a chainsaw
08:43 kf magnuse: dangerous idea
08:44 magnuse and it would only work if you wanted to redice the height, of couse
08:44 kf sadly I want to increase it
08:45 magnuse :-(
08:45 * drojf hands kf superglue
08:46 magnuse kf: how are you doing it and what happens when you do it?
08:46 kf brb
08:53 kf I want to resize an iframe
08:53 kf when I click on a link
08:54 drojf iframe… building a phishing site? "enter credit card details here" :P
08:55 kf no
08:55 kf adding our "bookstore links" to koha's catalog
08:56 kf ah, and it does not work for that record... of course
08:58 drojf what is "http://swb/" for people not in your network?
09:00 rangi ls -p | xargs -I {} git log -1 --format="%ai {}" "{}" | sort -r
09:00 rangi try it in a git dir
09:05 kf drojf: oh
09:05 kf let me check something
09:05 drojf kf already found it
09:06 kf wonder how I got this link
09:06 kf no idea
09:06 kf ok
09:06 kf now it works .)
09:06 drojf i get the iframe with the availability tinbg
09:06 drojf thing
09:07 kf yes it works there, I want to add something similar to koha
09:07 drojf ah! :)
09:18 drojf rangi: that's fancy :)
09:23 kf hah, got it working :)
09:57 kf hm
09:57 kf do we have a screenshot of the new start page somewhere?
10:00 mbalmer not a screen shot, but:
10:00 kf ah great thx
10:00 mbalmer demo / demo
10:01 magnuse oops, that's in norwegian :-)
10:01 kf still nice :)
10:02 mbalmer kf, you suddenly like icons??
10:02 kf mbalmer: hmmmm...
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10:03 kf mbalmer: I will leave the decision to our libraries
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11:00 jcamins_away magnuse: you encourage them to hire a vendor to support the system.
11:13 magnuse jcamins_away: but they want to have confidential stuff in the records, so they are sceptical of not having it in house...
11:14 jcamins_away magnuse: they can have a self-hosted system where they're paying someone to do routine maintenance on the server.
11:16 magnuse sure, but i'm not sure i would want to be responsible for a server in their server room...
11:17 jcamins I can't seem to change my nick.
11:17 jcamins That's weird.
11:17 jcamins Nor would I, but there are vendors who do that sort of thing.
11:17 jcamins Yay! I managed to change my nick!
11:17 magnuse woohoo!
11:18 magnuse yeah, that might be a way to go
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11:37 * slef mails a report to kohacon12volunteers
11:37 dgl-library Greetings #koha!
11:37 magnuse greetings dgl-library!
11:38 kf ooh :)
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11:43 chris_n mtj: we use datatables as our table generator atm
11:45 libsysguy joined #koha
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11:46 mtj we, as in - Koha does?
11:46 mtj or a difference 'we' ? :)
11:47 libsysguy im getting reports of a date not showing up when patrons request a book.  Is anybody else seeing this on master?
11:47 mtj biab...
11:47 chris_n mtj: we == koha
11:48 libsysguy logs?
11:48 wahanui hmmm... logs is
11:49 jcamins chris_n: do you have time for a quick tutorial on your release management scripts?
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11:50 chris_n jcamins: I'm headed off to class atm; maybe later this morning
11:50 jcamins chris_n: okay.
11:50 chris_n be sure to bring lots of strong coffee/tea... they are not for the faint of heart ;-)
11:52 jcamins Fair enough.
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11:53 drojf1 marc and/ or zebra question: when using 773/774 for analytical records, can i manage whether i get only host items, only constituent items or both in search results? i thought i read about that somwhere but can't figure it out now
11:54 jcamins drojf1: no.
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11:55 jcamins drojf1: actually, what are you asking?
11:55 drojf1 jcamins: thanks. must have really dreamed that then. or misinterpreted something to my likings :D
11:55 jcamins drojf1: I just realized that I might have misunderstood your question.
11:55 jcamins Do you mean you want to do a search for only host items, or you only want the 773 and not the 774 (or vice versa) to show up in the display?
11:56 drojf1 jcamins: i have a host item and two constituent items that belong to the host item. can i specify somewhere that i find only the host item (in a regular search)? or that i find only the constituent items respectively?
11:57 jcamins Ah.
11:58 jcamins It should be possible, yes.
11:58 jcamins kf will have the details, since she wrote that code. :)
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12:09 slef @query SUSHI
12:09 huginn slef: No results for "SUSHI."
12:09 slef Anyone heard of this?
12:09 hdl slef: yep
12:09 slef Standardized Usage Statistics Harvesting Initiative
12:10 magnuse made me think of ;-)
12:10 hdl it is a protocol to count the number of checkout and so on.
12:10 slef hdl: any tips?
12:10 hdl slef: about what ?
12:10 slef someone asking about Koha's support for it
12:10 magnuse
12:11 hdl slef: it is VERY important for digital repository.
12:11 magnuse hey, the pdf is only $49.00USD![…]roduct_id=1612225
12:11 hdl slef: I guess it is not the business of Koha to implement that.
12:12 slef magnuse: private standards :(
12:12 hdl Koha is ILS, for regular books.
12:12 magnuse slef: now there is a oxymoron
12:12 hdl erm and digital right management is not its scope.
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12:14 hdl let Koha do physical checkouts, and do it good.... with open standards and APIs,  And leave erm and digital assets to other softwares.
12:14 slef hdl: you write that, but more and more libraries want to integrate electronic resources into Koha's core, and to have physical item usage reported over the same systems that report electronic usage.
12:14 jcamins_away That's not entirely accurate, though.
12:15 jcamins_away SUSHI is an API for statistics.
12:15 slef jcamins_away: it looks like the initial driving use case was electronic, but yes, it looks like it is more general.
12:15 jcamins_away It's most heavily used for electronic resources, but librarians would like statistics on *everything*.
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12:16 jcamins_away slef: yeah, the electronic resources librarian from Yale gave a talk about it, and she used it primarily within the context of databases, but they were trying to integrate gate count, etc., so that they could decide where to cut budgets.
12:17 hdl slef: in my opninion, Koha should first be refactored buttoms up.
12:17 hdl And then think about doing something else.
12:18 hdl But eh... it is MY opinion.
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12:18 hdl at the moment, bring more code into Koha will only brings more bugs.
12:18 * libsysguy perks up at the mention of a refactor
12:18 slef hdl: not sure about you, but we can best do refactoring as part of development
12:19 libsysguy slef you mean as incremental refactors instead of doing it all at once or do you mean refactor code as bugs crop up?
12:19 slef hdl: unless you+others want to argue that any possible-maybe kohacon12 surplus should be spent buying refactoring work, rather than given to kohacon13
12:20 slef libsysguy: I mean refactor related code when people pay us to add features or fix bugs in that area.
12:20 kf I think rewriting all of koha is out of question
12:20 kf we can only do it module by module
12:20 jcamins_away kf: what, you don't have...
12:20 kf or funtion by function
12:20 slef kf: I think it would be brilliant but hard to fund.
12:20 * jcamins_away mumbles a terrifyingly large number...
12:20 kf yep
12:20 kf exactly
12:20 kf so
12:21 jcamins_away ... dollars/euros/pounds?
12:21 kf at the moment I think best is going baby steps
12:21 kf like moving more things over to the new namespace
12:21 kf getting rid of that old date handlig thing...
12:21 oleonard Hi everyone
12:21 libsysguy i think baby steps are good but I am still a little confused about what the new namespace is going to solve other than maybe some memory leaks
12:21 libsysguy which is big
12:22 libsysguy don't get me wrong
12:22 slef libsysguy: you're not alone
12:23 libsysguy but I sometimes feel the logical structure of the codebase disarray
12:23 kf I thin the idea is to use it to separate business logic too
12:23 slef libsysguy: there's logic? and structure? ;-)
12:23 kf but.. don't ask ME for details
12:23 Guillaume left #koha
12:23 libsysguy heh slef my point exactly
12:23 kf not that much of a programmer yet - still working on the very basics :)
12:24 slef seriously, there's lots of logic and structure
12:24 oleonard Expecting a strictly unified logical structure from a 12 year old open source project is too much
12:24 slef but you can tell it's changed hands a few times with very different big visions
12:24 jcamins_away libsysguy: moving to a new namespace will force us to reconsider where things are done.
12:24 jcamins_away For example, SQLHelper will finally die.
12:25 libsysguy heh
12:25 jcamins_away We can replace it with a more coherent database access class.
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12:26 hdl slef: you are not quite right... there are lots of logic s and that s makes all the difference.
12:26 kf hdl, slef: I think you both agree - lots of logics... only not the same everywhere :)
12:27 libsysguy i think the logic is a bit challenging to follow
12:27 libsysguy but maybe thats me
12:27 magnuse isn't the point of Koha:: that we agree on some standards and take baby steps to get our code in line with the standards and make sure the code that meets the standards is in Koha::, with the long term goal of getting rid of C4::?
12:28 jcamins_away magnuse: yes, exactly.
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12:30 kf magnuse: yep, that's what I understood too
12:31 hdl magnuse: the question is should baby steps be completed and Koha Walks before you load him with other tasks or should you challenge him with other compelling tasks while those baby steps.
12:31 magnuse it has to be both at the same time
12:31 libsysguy ::Koha power walking :p
12:31 magnuse unless someone has lots of money t spend on this we can't freeze koha for 3 years while we clean the code
12:32 kf I think magnuse is right
12:32 kf we have to do it the hard way
12:32 magnuse (freeze as in not add any new features)
12:32 kf although the other would be cool... if we had a time machine
12:32 hdl well doing module by module could at least be helpful.
12:33 libsysguy technically ::Koha already contains at least one new feature already
12:33 hdl But what if you change and which also needs to be refactored.
12:33 libsysguy ...hourly loans
12:33 magnuse hdl: i'm not saying it's easy, i'm saying it's the only way... ;-)
12:34 hdl I am saying, who when where, how.
12:34 magnuse hdl: us, all the time, in whatever way we see fit, one step at a time
12:35 oleonard Yay open source and everything but Gitorious has been dog slow for two days.
12:35 kf lol
12:35 kf hi oleonard
12:36 hdl see ya folks.
12:39 slef oleonard :( any news from them what the problem is?
12:39 oleonard Nothing on the blog
12:39 slef oleonard: web frontend seems snappy here
12:39 slef oleonard: is it git push/fetch being slow?
12:39 oleonard It's the web site that has been on and off for me
12:40 slef ah yes it's just slowed down for me
12:41 slef "We're having some issues with our cache, working on it!"
12:41 slef
12:42 oleonard Good to hear. Thanks slef
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12:51 oleonard "3.8" is dangerously close to "4.2" I think we should expect a "5.4" any time now.
12:51 magnuse lol
12:52 slef I think Koha-with-Plack should be 5.0, with a comment about one vendor mistakenly releasing their own fork as 4.x and confusing matters.
12:53 magnuse and koha-with-solr 4.0?
13:00 slef I refuse to comment for fear that I may incriminate myself.
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13:00 magnuse heh
13:02 drojf1 we could have kohacon every half year and name the releases accordingly. koha edinburgh does not sound too bad. i'd also like koha bodø or tromsø ;)
13:03 oleonard Kohacon every half year would break everyone's travel budget :(
13:03 kf what happened to the plan of koha - release chocolate chip cookie?
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13:05 drojf1 put it on the list for the next icr meeting maybe? :)
13:05 drojf1 irc
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13:36 * oleonard suspects he must have missed the release party, as everyone else seems to be hung over
13:38 oleonard ...or working furiously on 3.10?
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13:53 clrh_ oleonard: working furiously on 3.10 of course :)
13:54 * kf waves at clrh
13:54 clrh (joking but lot of things to signoff if you don't know what to do ;))
13:54 jcamins I am looking forward to Koha ginger-wasabi-chocolate chip cookies.
13:54 jcamins :D
13:55 jcamins http://biscuitpusher.blogspot.[…]chip-cookies.html
13:55 clrh don't know what does mean "doing waves"
13:55 jcamins clrh: "making waves"?
13:55 jcamins Where does it say that.
13:55 jcamins *?
13:56 clrh kf said: -15:53-  * kf waves at clrh
13:56 jcamins Oh, I see.
13:57 jcamins It's a greeting. If you're far away from someone, to indicate that you see them, you wave at them.
13:57 magnuse o/
13:57 * jcamins will see if he can find out how to call it in French.
13:57 jcamins salut?
13:58 clrh ok thanks jcamins
13:59 magnuse google translate: elle est vous saluent
13:59 clrh "hola" ?
13:59 clrh ok
13:59 kf sorry for causing confusion :)
13:59 clrh english translate of google transkate: she say hello
13:59 clrh nevermind
13:59 kf clrh: will you be in edinburgh? :)
13:59 clrh no problem
13:59 clrh I would like to yes
14:01 kf :)
14:01 kf hope it happens :)
14:02 clrh :)
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14:09 * oleonard has a fresh version of his fix for Bug 4048 as soon as Gitorious stops being narcoleptic
14:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4048 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , CSS and JS libs must be outside of translated paths
14:12 kf :)
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14:26 * wizzyrea pokes bug 7998
14:26 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7998 minor, P5 - low, ---, wizzyrea, Needs Signoff , 3.8 UI cleanup, tweaks to new styles
14:28 * jcamins would sign off, but I'm at a client's.
14:28 oleonard Tell them hi from us jcamins
14:28 jcamins oleonard: I will.
14:30 slef heh
14:34 chris_n jcamins: I'm back... been afk most of the morning, sorry
14:34 jcamins chris_n: 'sok.
14:34 chris_n oleonard: does wizzyrea's bug include the issue we discussed yesterday?
14:34 chris_n or should I add it?
14:35 wizzyrea what was the issue?
14:35 oleonard I don't know
14:35 wizzyrea cuzn I can tell you >.>
14:35 oleonard Hush wizzyrea we're talking!
14:35 * wizzyrea makes puppy dog face
14:35 chris_n wizzyrea: the cart icon causes the top bar to expand vertically into ugliness
14:35 oleonard So anyway chris_n, there may be no way to ever know.
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14:35 wizzyrea no, it doesn't address that. :P
14:36 wizzyrea firefox?
14:36 wahanui rumour has it firefox is so much better for maximep's use case of opening hundreds of tabs in tab groups. Chrome couldn't do that
14:36 oleonard Chrome
14:36 chris_n is 7998 an appropriate location for that complaint?
14:36 wizzyrea sure
14:36 chris_n k
14:37 oleonard My firefox heard wahanui talking about it and crashed from surprise
14:37 * chris_n hands out mint m&m's
14:37 wizzyrea one thing that might be controversial
14:37 wizzyrea in that patch of mine
14:37 wizzyrea is the colors of the menus - I thought they were too blah being grey
14:37 wizzyrea
14:38 jcamins More controversial than the background image?
14:38 wizzyrea and hover blue
14:38 wizzyrea so I switched them, hover grey, blue all the time.
14:38 wizzyrea now, the hover color I think could probably be changed
14:38 wizzyrea but the blue tabs look SO much better imo
14:39 wizzyrea makes the white active tab stand out more.
14:39 * chris_n dutifully add his comment to 7998
14:40 wizzyrea thanks chris_n
14:40 wizzyrea this happens when there's stuff in the cart?
14:40 chris_n now... to sign off on the jQuery upgrade
14:40 * oleonard cheers chris_n
14:40 wizzyrea oh I see
14:40 chris_n wizzyrea: I did not test that, but oleonard may have
14:40 wizzyrea wait, no I don't
14:41 wizzyrea because mine's not broken - maybe because my window is wider/
14:41 wizzyrea ?
14:41 chris_n you must have a huge monitor ;-)
14:41 wizzyrea but it does wrap when there's stuff in the cart
14:41 wizzyrea is that what you mean?
14:41 chris_n yes
14:41 chris_n that's ugly
14:41 wizzyrea yes, ok. ez enuf to fix.
14:41 * oleonard didn't think it depended on the monitor size
14:41 chris_n it causes the screen to bounce
14:41 wizzyrea no, it doesn't
14:41 * wizzyrea doesn't observe bouncing
14:41 chris_n maybe not so ez
14:42 chris_n as oleonard mentioned, translations may result in differing widths
14:42 wizzyrea i had that same problem when adding stuff to the intranetnav
14:42 wizzyrea in previous versions
14:42 chris_n cart in foo-bar, may have 24 letters
14:42 kf1 liz: i like the tabs
14:42 wizzyrea I \o/
14:42 kf1 :)
14:42 chris_n kf clones?
14:43 wizzyrea the hover color could be a darker color, idk.
14:43 * chris_n gets out the list of extra work
14:43 kf1 it's a bit darker now I think?
14:43 kf1 in the recent version?
14:43 wizzyrea there isn't a darker color in this color scheme yet :(
14:43 kf1 hm the screenshots I got from magnuse installation today looked darker to me
14:43 kf1 than the colors in your scheme
14:44 wizzyrea mine are the ones in master
14:44 wizzyrea same as his
14:44 wizzyrea difference in screen?
14:44 wizzyrea or capture tool?
14:44 kf1 hm not sure
14:44 kf1 perhaps?
14:44 wizzyrea I didn't actually change any of the colors, only used ones that were there
14:45 * chris_n does 'git bz apply 5184' and holds his breath
14:45 * wizzyrea looks east for signs of nuclear pressure waves coming this way
14:46 * oleonard would report them if they passed by on their way to wizzyrea
14:46 wizzyrea thanks oleonard, you're a good friend. :)
14:47 chris_n .oO.... POOF!
14:47 * chris_n blows away a little smoke
14:48 * oleonard is unable to add a new patron attribute type
14:49 wizzyrea urg
14:49 chris_n oleonard: is it safe to assume that most of the upgrade bugs would be in cataloguing [sic]
14:50 oleonard I don't think it's safe to assume that
14:50 * chris_n hates the thought of not knowing exactly where a bug may crawl out of next :)
14:51 jcamins chris_n: that's how I feel about search-related code.
14:51 * chris_n looks around for his aardvark
14:52 chris_n cool.. a tag editor
14:52 chris_n is that new or did I miss something
14:52 jcamins chris_n: don't you run master?
14:52 * wizzyrea recalls oleonard spending many hours mucking about in tags
14:52 chris_n lol
14:52 chris_n the new look provides nice eye-relief
14:53 wizzyrea he'd come up for air, grizzled, covered in tags like "pseudoscience" and "paleontology"
14:53 jcamins Hey, speaking of statistics, do people track which links people follow *out* of the catalogs?
14:53 wizzyrea yea, it's not so stark
14:53 * wizzyrea uses piwik to see that
14:53 jcamins wizzyrea: let me rephrase.
14:53 * chris_n can't wait until we progress to the "sculpted" look
14:54 wizzyrea I can't wait until we talk about the table styling.
14:54 jcamins Is that one of the statistics that you are actually interested in, or is that just a by-product of using web analytics?
14:54 chris_n +1
14:54 jcamins +1
14:54 chris_n scrolling tables
14:54 wizzyrea it's a by-product of using web analytics
14:54 wizzyrea but an interesting one
14:54 jcamins Nuking the cataloguing editor from orbit.
14:54 chris_n drag-n-drop marc imports
14:54 * wizzyrea faints
14:55 wizzyrea y'all are giving me the vapors.
14:55 wizzyrea or, I need the vapors/
14:55 wizzyrea or something.
14:55 jcamins wizzyrea: I'm thinking about usage statistics for electronic resources.
14:55 wizzyrea sure, piwik could tell you about that
14:55 jcamins Yeah, it's easy to get from piwik.
14:56 jcamins The question I'm trying to get at is whether it's useful enough to integrate some sort of circ statistics for electronic resource records.
14:56 oleonard " DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Column 'category_code' cannot be null at /home/oleonard/kohaclone/C4​/Members/ line 220"
14:56 jcamins Like, I have all of PG in my demo.
14:57 jcamins A library might think "gee, that'd be useful."
14:57 jcamins A gazillion free classic (and not-so-classic) texts.
14:57 jcamins But there's no circ data, obviously.
14:57 wizzyrea right.
14:57 gaetan_B bye !
14:58 chris_n oleonard: on master?
14:58 jcamins For me, web analytics works just fine, because that's something I have anyway.
14:58 chris_n over sample data?
14:58 jcamins For you, too.
14:58 oleonard chris_n: on master, yes
14:58 jcamins But what if a library doesn't have the expertise to manage web analytics?
14:58 jcamins Is the information useful enough to be worth capturing?
14:59 wizzyrea well short of building in a limited version of web analytics to koha (because that's really what you're doing) how would you track that?
14:59 chris_n oleonard: ouch
14:59 wizzyrea ok, personally
14:59 wizzyrea I don't think that using (the dreaded) google analytics is too hard for anybody.
14:59 chris_n oleonard: well a spin through adding/editing bibs and adding/editing items does not show up any obvious js errors
15:00 oleonard Cool
15:00 wizzyrea setting up their own server with piwik is only marginally harder
15:00 wizzyrea libraries are getting smarter, not dumber.
15:00 wizzyrea the worst thing about piwik is having to have a certificate if you want to track traffic from a secured website.
15:01 jcamins wizzyrea: well, yeah, it'd be an exceedingly limited web analytics thing, but basically you proxy links for electronic records at the XSLT-level, and have the system record the circs.
15:01 jcamins If there's logged-in user, you get the patron type.
15:01 jcamins If not, you don't.
15:02 oleonard Ah, interesting. correctly alters borrower_attribute_types to allow category_code to be null, but kohastructure.sql doesn't
15:02 oleonard So I'm noticing the bug because my installation isn't very old
15:03 jcamins I actually thought of this specifically for the analytics use case, where you're using a public DOI resolver or pubmed.
15:03 jcamins It may be that the question is moot for public libraries, but it would be useful to me, as a medical school library administrator to know that my faculty were not using the catalog at all.
15:04 wizzyrea well sure
15:05 jcamins (we already know the faculty aren't actually coming to the library, but if a lot of research is done in non-authenticated databases, we have practically no information about what they *are* doing)
15:07 jcamins What I'm wondering is whether this is information that other people find interesting, or whether it's just an "oh, that's nice" bit of trivia.
15:08 wizzyrea i'm sure that someone wants to know about that
15:08 wizzyrea metrics are helpful when asking for money.
15:10 oleonard It would certainly help justify the effort of adding something like Gutenberg records
15:11 oleonard Bug 8002
15:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8002 major, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, NEW , Can't add patron attribute type in newer installation
15:11 oleonard Aw man I missed Bug 8000?
15:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8000 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , Test mode for notices
15:12 * wizzyrea looks around
15:12 oleonard Bug 7000
15:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7000 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , show home and holding branch on staff search results
15:12 oleonard Bug 6000
15:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6000 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, paul.poulain, Patch doesn't apply , Performance enhancements for C4::Context and C4::Languages
15:12 oleonard Bug 5000
15:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5000 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, oleonard, RESOLVED FIXED, Uncertain prices misses option to choose display language
15:12 oleonard Bug 4000
15:12 wahanui i think Bug 4000 is a great example of an old acq bug that just hasn't gotten any attention
15:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4000 normal, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , Budgets table doesn't show tree view for sub-budgets
15:12 oleonard Still true wahanui
15:13 kf1 oleonard: good catch and ouch
15:20 hdl joined #koha
15:22 wizzyrea hi hdl
15:23 hdl hi wizzyrea
15:25 gmcharlt hi hdl
15:26 chris_n bug 5184
15:26 wahanui bug 5184 is related
15:26 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5184 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Upgrade jQuery to the latest version
15:27 chris_n oleonard, paul_p ^^
15:27 chris_n bug 5184 is the priority
15:27 chris_n bug 5184?
15:27 wahanui bug 5184 is related
15:27 chris_n wahanui: forget bug 5184
15:27 wahanui chris_n: I forgot bug 5184
15:27 chris_n bug 5184 is the priority
15:27 chris_n bug 5184?
15:27 wahanui i think bug 5184 is the priority
15:27 chris_n good
15:30 kf1 oleonard: I think we might need a databaseupdate for bug 8003? :(
15:30 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8003 was not found.
15:30 kf1 bug 8002
15:30 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8002 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't add patron attribute type in newer installation
15:30 oleonard Ah true
15:30 jcamins Yes.
15:31 jcamins kf1: KVK is driving me nuts.
15:31 kf and what I am supposed to do about it? it's not next door ;)
15:32 kf jcamins: what is it doing?
15:32 jcamins Limiting by year doesn't seem to be working with the German databases.
15:33 kf specify which databases? ;)
15:33 kf you could also start your search directly at swb ;)
15:33 jcamins BVB, GBV, and HEBIS.
15:33 kf see
15:34 jcamins I know you can't actually fix it, but someone needed to be told that it was annoying me, and you have a union catalog too. :P
15:34 hdl hi gmcharlt
15:34 kf lol
15:34 kf ok :)
15:49 oleonard Is there a procedure for correcting Bug 8003 because seriously folks I tire of hearing about it.
15:49 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8003 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 2045
15:49 kf oleonard: I think we need an faq for that
15:49 kf like we have for zebra
15:50 kf or a better error message, but think it can have different causes?
15:50 jcamins We should fix whatever usually causes it, at least.
15:50 oleonard Why did it only start showing up recently? Surely that implies a shortcoming on our part
15:50 sophie_m joined #koha
15:51 esofiane left #koha
15:51 jcamins oleonard: a lot of the reports appear to be one person who won't tell us what version s/he is running.
15:51 wizzyrea ah, and this bug, even
15:51 wizzyrea says "unspecified"
15:52 kf yeah
15:52 kf I think asking a few questions
15:53 jcamins kyleh reported and fixed a similar bug.
15:53 kf version? marc format? ... have yu changed something in your frameworks?
15:55 oleonard Oh, and I'm conflating in my mind that one and "Can't call method "subfield" on an undefined value"
15:57 laurence joined #koha
15:57 laurence left #koha
15:58 melia joined #koha
15:58 * oleonard heads out early
15:58 oleonard Bye everyone
16:01 jcamins Wow, that is early.
16:01 jcamins Lucky.
16:02 mib_24o8vg joined #koha
16:03 mib_24o8vg Plan to download Koha soon to automate small private school library collection.  What barcode scanners do you suggest that work with Linux OS?
16:04 wizzyrea ones that you can plug in >.>
16:04 wizzyrea but seriously, if you can scan barcodes and have them come out as text, it will work with koha
16:04 jcamins mib_24o8vg: yeah, basically any barcode scanner should work.
16:04 mib_24o8vg I am not tech savvy and saw that some barcode scanners require a Windows or Vista OS and Linux is not that right?
16:07 wizzyrea I would not buy one that says it requires windows or vista.
16:08 wizzyrea I haven't come across any that don't essentially work like keyboards.
16:08 mib_24o8vg great!
16:09 wizzyrea[…]=3800G14-SERKIT1E
16:09 wizzyrea this is one that we have in our libraries
16:09 jcamins That's a really nice barcode scanner. I recommend it.
16:09 * wizzyrea had to go look back through the logs to find that link
16:09 jcamins barcode scanners?
16:09 wizzyrea jcamins: you've used it with linux?
16:10 jcamins wizzyrea: hmmm... I guess not directly.
16:10 jcamins I used it with a Linux VM.
16:10 wizzyrea but it's specs don't say "windows only"
16:10 jcamins But it was hooked up to a Mac.
16:10 wizzyrea pf
16:10 wizzyrea if it'll work on a mac
16:10 wizzyrea it'll work on linux
16:10 jcamins
16:11 wizzyrea that one we like isn't listed, but I'm pretty sure it works.
16:11 wizzyrea I should just go out and grab my laptop and see.
16:11 wizzyrea brb]
16:12 mib_24o8vg That would be great.
16:12 jcamins "Can withstand multiple 5' drops to concrete."
16:12 jcamins mib_24o8vg: make sure you get the right interface. We had one that was USB and one that was PS/2, because we had one USB computer and one PS/2 computer.
16:13 jcamins (both worked fine, but you can't hook up the PS/2 to a modern Mac, and the USB won't work on really old PCs)
16:14 jcamins (*really* old PCs)
16:14 wizzyrea right, don't buy ps2
16:14 wizzyrea if your computer is at all modern.
16:14 jcamins And if your computer requires PS/2, consider replacing the computer.
16:14 wizzyrea and by modern I mean, since the year, say, 2002
16:15 jcamins wizzyrea: we had a computer from 2003 which didn't like the USB.
16:15 wizzyrea ok, 2003 :P
16:16 wizzyrea but linux might not be that dumb.
16:16 wizzyrea I just tested our adaptus 3800g, it worked out of the box with ubuntu 11
16:16 wizzyrea just plugged it in, no drama
16:16 jcamins wizzyrea: oh, good point.
16:16 * wizzyrea goes on the hunt for a honeywell
16:17 jcamins You're right. Of course Linux would be able to properly support a USB HID.
16:17 mib_24o8vg Like no drama.  I'm a volunteer at the library and not even sure what type of computer they have because we have yet to install Linux and Koha but plan to soon.  As soon as someone can explain it to me.
16:17 wizzyrea the honeywell also worked out of the box with no drama
16:19 wizzyrea so, that's a sample size of 2, on ubuntu 11, that work with no drama out of the box.
16:19 slef yes, make sure it's a USB HID
16:20 slef if it requires strange drivers on mac and windows, beware
16:20 jcamins (HID = Human Interface Device)
16:20 wizzyrea yea, unfortunately, they don't put stuff like "USB HID" in the specs
16:21 wizzyrea but agreed, if it says "requires windows" I'd stay away.
16:21 slef wizzyrea: no but you can look the USB Identity codes up on various websites
16:21 wizzyrea sure
16:21 wizzyrea if the specs have the
16:21 wizzyrea them.
16:21 wizzyrea this one I'm looking at doesn't
16:21 wizzyrea (the specs, not the scanner itself)
16:22 * wizzyrea doesn't mean to be a naysayer
16:22 wizzyrea I say nay!
16:22 wizzyrea j/k
16:26 mbalmer evening.  who maintains the debian packaking of Koha?
16:26 wizzyrea eythian
16:27 wizzyrea release teams?
16:27 jcamins release team?
16:27 jcamins package maintainer?
16:27 jcamins maintainer?
16:27 jcamins release maintainer?
16:27 jcamins rm?
16:27 wahanui rm is busy :)
16:27 wizzyrea release team is found at
16:27 wizzyrea release team?
16:27 wahanui release team is found at
16:27 mbalmer ok, tnx
16:28 wizzyrea he's helped by mtj
16:28 mib_24o8vg Is the RM who I would contact for help when downloading debian, the Koha?
16:29 wizzyrea nope, you'd come here.
16:32 mib_24o8vg Ok.  Anyone using the new LibLime Koha version yet?  I assume that will be the one I install.
16:33 wizzyrea nobody uses that
16:34 wizzyrea and we can't help you with that
16:35 jcamins mib_24o8vg: no, don't use that.
16:35 wizzyrea I think you might need to check out
16:35 jcamins mib_24o8vg: we only support Koha.
16:36 jcamins (and if you want extensive support, you might want to hire someone)
16:38 wizzyrea the latest version of Koha is 3.8.
16:40 mib_24o8vg Will load the 3.8 since that one has the support community.  Is LibLime Koha different than Koha Library?
16:41 wizzyrea totally
16:42 kf bye all :)
16:42 talljoy joined #koha
16:42 wizzyrea bye kf
16:42 drojf1 bye kf :)
16:42 kf left #koha
16:46 nengard_lunch what ever happened to that awesome dev that biblibre did to allow editing of circ & fine rules? anyone know if that is still in the works?
16:47 nengard_lunch i was looking at it at kohacon10
16:47 wizzyrea I think it failed qa
16:48 nengard_lunch any idea what bug number that was? I found the all encompassing bug, wasn't sure if that was still it
16:51 wizzyrea bug 4476
16:51 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4476 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Improve clarity and usability of issuing rules interface
16:52 wizzyrea no, that's not it
16:52 wizzyrea bug 5437
16:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5437 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, NEW , smart-rule improvements
16:53 wizzyrea but no patch for that.
16:53 nengard_lunch okay, thanks
16:54 wizzyrea dunno it would have been in that raft of biblibre stuff
16:59 chris_n the entire thought of error trapping needs to be re-worked in koha
16:59 cait joined #koha
16:59 chris_n heya cait
16:59 cait hi chris_n
17:00 chris_n the vast majority of errors should be trapped and intelligible messages returned to the user and informative messages logged on the back end
17:00 chris_n imho the software should rarely croak
17:00 chris_n </rant>
17:01 cait what was this rant about?
17:02 chris_n nearly useless error messages
17:02 chris_n re bug 8003
17:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8003 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 2045
17:02 jcamins What are we ranting about?
17:02 jcamins Oh, yeah.
17:02 chris_n se above
17:03 jcamins Good rant. :)
17:03 jcamins I agree.
17:03 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "RM Tool Notes" (15 lines) at
17:03 chris_n jcamins: ^^
17:03 jcamins Woohoo!
17:03 jcamins chris_n++
17:03 JoeLib001 joined #koha
17:03 chris_n I think all of those are in the repo
17:03 jcamins Yes they are.
17:03 chris_n they "work" to varying degrees of definitions
17:03 chris_n of the word
17:04 jcamins Fair enough.
17:04 chris_n has lots of potential
17:04 jcamins Is there a reason that RMaint doesn't do the Debian packages, too?
17:04 chris_n it should be preferred to
17:05 chris_n because thus far we have not had one with the correct intelligence to handle that ;-)
17:05 JoeLib001 Will the Debian Repositories be updated to Koha 3.8?
17:05 * chris_n speaks for himself
17:05 jcamins JoeLib001: at some point, yes.
17:05 wizzyrea JoeLib001: yes, soon. They always lag a bit behind.
17:05 jcamins Oh, I know why the RMaint doesn't do it.
17:05 jcamins Because only eythian can sign the packages.
17:05 chris_n jcamins: can be a bit finicky
17:06 libsysguy left #koha
17:06 chris_n and probably needs revisiting with the re-definition and addition of fields in bz
17:06 cait chris_n++ :)
17:06 chris_n is your friend
17:06 cait jcamins++ :)
17:06 chris_n a very good friend I might add
17:07 chris_n paul_p would have had a much nice start of vacation had he had it in hand ;-)
17:07 chris_n and will save hours of time as well
17:10 jcamins At some point I'll RMaint on a server, or at least a computer that isn't my laptop, and have a cron job that automatically tries cherry-picking newly committed bug fixes to 3.6-testing, and alerts me whether they'll apply or not.
17:13 JoeLib001 joined #koha
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17:15 chris_n is your friend
17:15 chris_n pardon the hackishness of the code
17:15 chris_n time was not my friend there :-)
17:15 jcamins :)
17:16 chris_n so many ideas, so little time
17:16 chris_n but the entire thing should be automat-ible
17:17 chris_n however the semi-dependency of order of commits presents a smallish issue
17:17 jcamins I will have a similar situation.
17:17 chris_n if a commit in a subset of commits fails, the entire subset must needs be reverted in order to continue forward
17:18 chris_n the problem compounds exponentially when we consider that the said subset of commits maybe spread over a long time period
17:18 chris_n and interspersed with various other commits which are unrelated
17:19 chris_n now, when a commit fails to apply, where have we been and where are we going?
17:20 jcamins Hopefully with two RMaints we'll be able to make some progress on solving that.
17:26 * chris_n tries to imagine an async git repo
17:26 chris_n anyway, let me know if I can help you in any way, and I'll do my best
17:29 jcamins Thanks! :)
17:30 cait wizzyrea: fennel salad for dinner tonight :)
17:31 smeagol joined #koha
17:31 chris_n fennel++
17:32 smeagol Why do you have to refer to *.tmpl files in .pl scripts if Koha is using .tt (template toolkit)?
17:32 libsysguy joined #koha
17:33 smeagol ($template, $borrowernumber, $cookie) = get_template_and_user({template_name => "tools/inventory.tmpl",
17:33 jcamins smeagol: you don't have to. In fact, ".tmpl" needs to be changed to ".tt" at some point.
17:33 jcamins smeagol: there's a shim that translates ".tmpl" to ".tt" in get_template_and_user.
17:38 smeagol ok, thanks. I figured there was some kind of reference going on, but wasn't sure where...thanks.
17:43 jcamins You should be using .tt on new files.
17:47 smeagol Right...
17:53 edveal left #koha
18:17 chris_n someone needs to walk sed down through the pl scripts and fix that
18:29 jcamins chris_n: so is the quote of the day feature ready for sign off?
18:29 jcamins Not that I can sign off right this moment.
18:46 chris_n jcamins: I'm doing some cleanup and some UI improvements
18:46 chris_n it should be ready by the end of the week
18:47 chris_n I'd love for oleonard and the UI folks from biblibre to have a look at the UI stuff as well
18:47 * chris_n is not much of a UI designer
18:48 libsysguy chris_n on the backend
18:48 libsysguy kind of has a ring to it
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19:06 mveron joined #koha
19:06 mveron Hi #koha
19:09 mbalmer wer wandert so spaet durch nacht und wind?  es ist der veron, der den letzten patch nicht find't!
19:09 mbalmer ;)
19:10 mveron :-)
19:13 wizzyrea yum fennel
19:14 stuartyeates joined #koha
19:15 cait wizzyrea: very yum :)
19:50 * chris_n give up
19:52 jcamins chris_n: uh-oh.
19:55 chris_n trying to get datatables to apply jQuery markup and classes is not working for what ever reason
19:55 chris_n and its not monday or friday :-)
19:56 jcamins Ah.
19:56 jcamins Hm.
19:56 jcamins Bribe oleonard?
19:57 chris_n well, the docs say its a simple boolean switch
19:58 chris_n but then the gulf between the docs and reality is often quite wide
20:04 datadoctor joined #koha
20:20 jcamins New to Koha on 3.0? Whoops.
20:20 thatchmo left #koha
20:24 jcamins Whoah.
20:24 jcamins Harvard++
20:25 jcamins Harvard has released their records under CC0:[…]id=icb.page498373
20:25 jcamins Someone should load all those into a Koha installation, see what happens. :D
20:25 jcamins Someone with a much bigger hard drive than I have.
20:33 jcamins mveron: why is bug 7563 in discussion?
20:33 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7563 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, veron, In Discussion , Silent print slips using Firefox PlugIn jsPrintSetup and new staff client preference
20:33 jcamins I don't see anyone talking about it.
20:34 mveron jcamns: Sorry, I mistaked. Seems that I have a Bug in theg and wanted to remove "Needs signoff" Shoud I put "NEW"?
20:34 mveron jcamins: Sorry, misspelled...
20:34 jcamins mveron: why don't you want it to be "needs signoff"?
20:34 jcamins You'd set it back to ASSIGNED if the patch isn't ready for signing off.
20:35 mveron jcamins: Becase I just detected a gitch in it
20:35 mveron glitch
20:35 jcamins Setting the status to "In discussion" implies that there is conflict about the functionality, and setting it to NEW implies that no one is working on it.
20:35 jcamins Okay, in that case you should set it to ASSIGNED. :)
20:35 wizzyrea ^^
20:35 wizzyrea also, I approve of this
20:36 mveron Thanks for the advise :-)
20:36 jcamins You're very welcome. Very cool feature. :)
20:37 mveron jcamins: Oh, thanks. It works well in a prerlease version at our testsite in Basel.
20:38 wizzyrea yea, that's been a problem forever.
20:39 wizzyrea glad you found that FF plugin - I was looking for something like that but a couple of years ago when I was looking I don't think it was around
20:46 mveron wizzyrea:There seems to be a similar thing for IE but I did not find it. Hmm, I don't uese E very often, anyway...
20:46 wizzyrea meh, IE
20:46 * wizzyrea is still wondering if people who use IE just don't know that the web isn't broken.
20:46 mveron Should put my glasses...
20:47 * mveron Thiks about all the poor people who have to work with...
20:47 mveron Thinks...
20:47 wahanui thinks is, like, FF/Ubuntu problem may be because he didn't restart FF
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20:58 wizzyrea forget thinks
20:58 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot thinks
21:18 mveron Good night #koha
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