IRC log for #koha, 2012-04-18

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:02 eythian oh dear, the indexdata apt repo signing keys have expired.
00:02 eythian that's going to cause some people some confusion
00:19 chris_n wahanui: confusion is the inability to think with your usual speed or clarity, including feeling disoriented and having difficulty paying attention, remembering, and making decisions.
00:19 wahanui OK, chris_n.
00:19 * chris_n definitely has those symptoms when apt acts up
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01:50 chris_n fwiw, here's a screencast of the editor:
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02:25 pongtawat Hello Koha...
02:25 rangi hi pongtawat
02:25 rangi chris_n++
02:26 pongtawat I would like to have some help :)
02:27 rangi ask away
02:27 pongtawat When we use Zebra with ICU, does it support first-in-field, startswithnt ?
02:27 rangi oh, hmm you are best asking that on the koha-devel mailing list, the people who know the answer to that, will all be asleep
02:27 rangi mailing lists?
02:27 wahanui mailing lists are at[…]ha-mailing-lists/
02:28 pongtawat Oh
02:28 pongtawat Ok, thank you, I will try the mailing list
02:34 rangi good luck :)
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02:55 chris_n rangi:[…]ancement/bug_7977
03:03 rangi coolio
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03:33 Amit_Gupta heya bag
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04:28 eythian wahanui: Newfoundland is the Untitled Document of place names.
04:28 wahanui OK, eythian.
04:33 guille joined #koha
04:34 guille hello everybody, Installing Koha 4.08 I get Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at line 279. when i tried get the webinstall .pl
04:34 guille any suggeted to point me to the right way ?
04:35 rangi hi guille, do you mean Liblime Koha 4.08 ?
04:35 rangi if so, we can't really help you here
04:35 rangi we all work on Koha itself
04:35 rangi at
04:35 guille yea rangi , i mean that
04:35 rangi and the latest released version of Koha is 3.6.4
04:36 guille where can i download it ?
04:36 rangi Liblime Koha is a fork, and only maintained by liblime you would need to talk to them
04:36 rangi click on thte download link on that site i pasted above
04:37 rangi
04:37 guille thanks rangi , im going to talk with the Liblime guys first
04:37 rangi each to their own :) if you want to join the Koha open source project, you know where we are
05:27 mtj ... i guess guille is about to click that liblime deleted their spanish Koha files long ago :)
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05:28 cait good morning #koha
05:29 eythian hi cait
05:29 eythian bye cait
05:29 cait hi ey
05:29 cait hi eythian
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06:06 magnuse kia ora #koha!
06:09 cait hi magnuse
06:09 magnuse guten morgen cait
06:12 magnuse bbiab
06:30 reiveune joined #koha
06:31 reiveune hello
06:31 wahanui hola, reiveune
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06:38 alex_a bonjour #koha
06:39 francharb morning #koha
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06:51 julian_m hi
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07:02 asaurat hi
07:02 wahanui bonjour, asaurat
07:03 rangi Evening
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07:04 magnuse bonjour france, bonne nuit rangi
07:05 esofiane hello #koha
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07:12 samuel hi everybody!
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07:18 clrh hello
07:18 kf hi clrh
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08:21 slef faq?
08:21 wahanui it has been said that faq is found at
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08:28 mtj anyone know how the 'atomicupdate' stuff works ?
08:32 kf no, never used it
08:32 * magnuse neither
08:33 kf and hi mtj :)
08:34 mtj i just pulled a patch to QA, with an the  atomicupdate file, and the update didnt work
08:34 mtj twas bug-7430
08:35 magnuse bug 7430
08:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7430 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, jcamins, Signed Off , ModZebra should not be in C4::Biblio
08:36 slef @query atomic update
08:36 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7167 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , updatedatabase improvements
08:36 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, chris, Signed Off , Hourly Loans
08:36 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5436 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, guillaume.hatt, Pushed to Master , Extended patron attributes display improvements
08:36 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7184 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, paul.poulain, Pushed to Master , have mysql returning errors
08:38 slef mtj: pretty sure it's bug 7167
08:38 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7167 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , updatedatabase improvements
09:01 mtj back now slef
09:01 mtj no its bugz 7430
09:02 mtj and this update here....
09:02 mtj [head-dev/.git] / installer / data / mysql / atomicupdate / bug_7430_add_searchengine_syspref
09:02 mtj the patch seems to work fine (thats good )
09:02 mtj but that update doesnt run
09:03 mtj[…]add381f9954a3e1e7
09:03 slef mtj: no, the atomicupdate stuff is described in bug 7167
09:03 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7167 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , updatedatabase improvements
09:04 mtj no ''SearchEngine'' syspref gets added, and the zebra syspref is not deleted
09:04 slef you asked how it works... I'm just pointing at the docs... I've not tested it
09:04 mtj ah, ok :) /me looks...
09:06 mtj hmm, that hasnt been pushed yet
09:07 mtj thats the new atomicupdate method, still in sign-off
09:08 rangi mtj: Paul knows
09:10 mtj heh, the biblibre peeps have still to discover irc-proxies...
09:11 rangi :)
09:12 mtj hmm, theres only 2 hits for 'atomicupdate' in the codebase
09:12 mtj i expected more :/
09:12 rangi I think you just have to run the files manually
09:12 rangi Until they are pushed
09:13 rangi Then Paul does something with updatedatabase
09:14 mtj yeah, looks that way
09:16 mtj the RM is sposed to cut/paste that atomicupdate/*.pl file to bottom of the file?
09:17 rangi Pass
09:17 mtj looks like a nice opportunity for a mistake :)
09:18 magnuse mtj: or make updatedatabase run the file:[…]
09:18 magnuse see line 4939
09:21 mtj aah yep, thanks magnuse
09:27 mtj actually, there was only *one* hit for 'atomicupdate' with grep (the line wrapped :) )
09:30 kf @later tell paul_p don't forget to add mveron to the history.txt :)
09:30 huginn kf: The operation succeeded.
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09:39 kf mveron++ :)
09:39 kf hi gaetan_B
09:39 mveron hi kf
09:40 kf thx for signing off .)
09:40 kf :)
09:40 mveron kf: Patch first did not apply, could resolve it using git am -iu3 temp
09:40 kf yay!
09:40 mveron Hope it is OK...
09:41 kf did it just apply with the second command or did you have to fix conflicts too?
09:41 mveron I had to fix congflicts in the file
09:41 mveron Conflicts
09:42 mveron Followed[…]olve_Merge_Issues
09:42 kf if it tested ok
09:42 kf I think it shoudl be alright
09:43 kf hm
09:43 kf To fix this conflict you will need to delete all but “our $VERSION = '';”  << this is a bit dangerous
09:43 kf sometimes you want to check it still does the same thing
09:43 kf and have to really merge something, like when we changed the capitalization in the templates
09:45 mveron What can I do to see if everything is OK?
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10:04 vinod my koha does not gives any result when cliking the option Limit to currently available items on opac
10:09 kf vinod: I think that's a known bug
10:13 vinod how can i resolve it
10:13 hdl vinod: well, there is some way to hide that "feature"
10:14 hdl which actually as things stand is not working perfectly.
10:14 vinod koha 3.6 i am trying to use on a ready made installation cd
10:16 hdl vinod: the problem is that availability and display is computed at biblio level where availability for checkout is an item matter there fore if you have one item checkedout, the whole record is hidden
10:16 vinod another thing is if there are two books in a item than after issueing one book opac display no items available
10:18 vinod although after runing the zebra opac shows one item availble and one checked out
10:19 vinod please help we have many type of items under one biblio record like reference books, general, book bank etc
10:19 kf vinod: that shoudl not happen - if yo have 2 books
10:20 kf did you set up your cronjobs for regular reindexing?
10:20 vinod no
10:20 magnuse bug 7012
10:20 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7012 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , limit to available not limiting anymore
10:20 vinod please let me know how to do the job
10:21 kf vinod: it's in the installing instructions
10:21 vinod ok i will do that
10:21 magnuse Bug 4481
10:21 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4481 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, koha.sekjal, Failed QA , Search's Limit to Available filters out many available items
10:21 kf hdl: I was wondering about paul_p - do you know when he will be back?
10:23 vinod pleae tell me how to enter if we have 20 copy of a book out of which 5 in reference,5 general, 10 book bank
10:23 hdl kf iirc tomorrow
10:23 kf hdl: not alot of time left and we have some evil bugs waiting for our rm
10:23 vinod can we enter one biblio and than separate items in 952 field?
10:24 vinod please resolve above
10:24 mveron kf: Will be back in about 2 hours
10:24 hdl Is there patch for those bugs ?
10:25 kf @later tell mveron - looked at the patch, makes all sense to me and you tested - so don't worry :)
10:25 huginn kf: The operation succeeded.
10:25 vinod can we enter one biblio and than separate items in 952 field if we have many copy of a perticular book
10:25 hdl vinod: yes you can.
10:26 kf vinod: yes, that's how it works
10:26 vinod ok thangs will it affect the hold policy if we set it item wise
10:27 vinod because biblio is same for all
10:27 vinod shelving location is mandatory?
10:28 kf circulation rules work on item level
10:28 kf we do that a lot here - having one item for in-house use only and other items for checkout on the same record
10:28 kf it will work
10:29 kf what you want is using different itemtypes for items with different loan policies
10:31 vinod is there any way so that the call number should automatically picked up from 082 field to 952$o field bcz i dont have call number in marc format along with each item
10:31 vinod i wanted to import the data
10:32 slef it's not required for all copies of a book to have the same callnumber so if yours do, I feel you should put callnumber into 952$o before importing
10:33 slef you could map callnumber to 082 in the Koha-MARC configuration but I'd be worried that something may break or misbehave then
10:36 vinod thanks for a good technical answer but our data base is having same call number for same copy of a title so i wanted solution
10:36 vinod please tell me is it advisable to use Koha CD for atomatic installation of all the packages
10:37 vinod and which version would be good more stable for begining
10:39 slef I'd use rather than any CD and I'd start with version 3.6.4 today.
10:44 vinod how can i above i do not have much idea about linux
10:44 vinod is there any way to install automatically like Koha CD
10:49 magnuse vinod: have a look at
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11:09 slef svc?
11:09 slef svc api?
11:09 wahanui svc api is[…]ha_/svc/_HTTP_API
11:10 slef The server at is taking too long to respond
11:11 slef and it's back
11:19 slef @seen dpavlin_away
11:19 huginn slef: dpavlin_away was last seen in #koha 22 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 46 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <dpavlin_away> Carl: do you have more than 1000 results by any chance? Zebra ignores sort order with more than 1000 (but configurable in Zebra configuration) results
11:19 slef @seen dpavlin
11:19 huginn slef: dpavlin was last seen in #koha 3 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: * dpavlin waves and goes to sleep...
11:19 slef that's some sleep
11:20 kf slef: perhaps try to write him an email - I think he does not read the chat frequently
11:20 magnuse @seen dpavlin_
11:20 huginn magnuse: dpavlin_ was last seen in #koha 1 week, 5 days, 21 hours, 22 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <dpavlin_> chris_n++
11:20 magnuse @seen dpavlin_away
11:20 huginn magnuse: dpavlin_away was last seen in #koha 22 weeks, 2 days, 0 hours, 48 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <dpavlin_away> Carl: do you have more than 1000 results by any chance? Zebra ignores sort order with more than 1000 (but configurable in Zebra configuration) results
11:24 slef found using email address from it
11:24 vinod joined #koha
11:24 slef
11:25 slef has a different one
11:25 slef confusing
11:25 wahanui confusing is "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
11:25 slef going with rot13
11:25 jwagner joined #koha
11:25 kf slef: I think that's what I have seen him using
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12:07 kf hi dpavlin :)
12:07 dpavlin hi all. I have Zoterro problem.
12:08 kf what is your problem?
12:09 dpavlin It seems that Zoterro on OPAC display page uses unapi which has wrong document type (document and not book)
12:09 dpavlin In 3.4 it used CoinS (allthough there is also unapi data on page)
12:09 kf in result list or on detail page?
12:09 dpavlin This makes zottero icon wrong (white document instead of blue book)
12:10 dpavlin detail page. Result list uses CoinS
12:11 kf hmm
12:11 kf not sure
12:11 kf I was thinking about COinSinOPACResults
12:11 kf system prefernece
12:11 kf but this only affects results as it seems
12:12 dpavlin I'm allmost thinking that we had corrupted unapi in 3.4 so that zotero picked CoinS instead.
12:12 kf that's not impossible
12:12 kf there have been some bugs
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12:12 dpavlin It seems that it prefers unapi, but then we are delivering wrong type (allthough meta-data included in our html look ok)
12:12 kf hi oleonard
12:12 kf bug 4018
12:12 jcamins_away dpavlin: our COinS and unapi implementations are... poor.
12:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4018 blocker, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Coins support problems and xslt
12:13 kf bug 4901
12:13 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4901 minor, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Title & Subtitle w/out space in Zotero
12:13 jcamins_away Somewhere or other I think I have an un-rebased patch that helps.
12:13 dpavlin jcamins_away: that would be great!
12:13 oleonard Hi everyone
12:14 jcamins_away Not sure exactly where.
12:15 jcamins_away dpavlin:
12:16 jcamins_away The COinS commits.
12:17 dpavlin jcamins_away: Do you think it would make sense to open bug for it?
12:17 dpavlin I can extract COinS improvement from your commits and attach it to bug if you don't mind
12:18 jcamins_away dpavlin: some of that code made it into Koha, I think.
12:18 jcamins_away But, yeah, definitely worth incorporating what isn't in Koha yet.
12:18 kf 9989 words need attention  - yay!
12:19 vinod please tell me is it bug when i am cliking Limit to currently available items on opac it does not shows any result
12:19 jcamins_away vinod: Limit to currently available items doesn't work.
12:19 dpavlin Ok, I'll try to get Zottero play nice with our OPAC detail page and if I manage to fix it open the bug.
12:20 vinod means it is bug in 3.6
12:20 jcamins_away vinod: it's a bug in every version of Koha, yes. It's already been reported.
12:20 vinod but i have seen in many sites it is working fine
12:21 vinod please check at
12:21 jcamins_away vinod: no it isn't, you just didn't realize that it was giving you inaccurate results.
12:21 jcamins_away Sorry. :(
12:21 vinod ok there may be result but not currect?
12:21 jcamins_away Right.
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12:23 vinod please tell me is it advisable to use koha live cd for 3.6 version on production machine
12:23 jcamins_away vinod: I probably wouldn't, but I suppose there is no reason you couldn't.
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12:25 vinod i do not know much about linux so want friendly installation, is there any way other than live cd to do the job
12:26 kf packages
12:26 wahanui package info is at[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
12:26 magnuse wahanui: forget packages
12:26 wahanui magnuse: I forgot packages
12:26 magnuse package info is at
12:27 magnuse packages
12:27 magnuse packages?
12:27 magnuse packages info is at
12:27 magnuse packages?
12:27 vinod which is more stable version to use now, and which should i use as a beginer
12:27 magnuse packages is at
12:27 magnuse packages?
12:27 wahanui it has been said that packages is at
12:27 vinod which is more stable version to use now, and which should i use as a beginer
12:28 magnuse vinod: version 3.6.4 is the stable one
12:28 magnuse it's the one you will get if you install using this method:
12:28 kf1 joined #koha
12:28 kf1 vinod: use the current stable release that is installed with the packages
12:28 vinod live cd is also available on sourceforge can i use it?
12:28 wahanui okay, vinod.
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12:30 vinod can i remove Limit to currently available items from opac as it is not working, how
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12:49 vinod how can i remove Limit to currently available items from opac as it is not working?
12:50 vinod OPACItemsResultsDisplay does not shows call number in opac
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13:22 drojf good day #koha
13:27 drojf slef: any idea what time kohacon is approximately going to start and hackfest going to end? my application form requires times for that
13:31 oleonard dpavlin_away: I've attached a follow-up for Bug 7500 without the logo
13:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7500 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Use CSS Sprites for faster page loading
13:31 oleonard I'd be interested in other opinions about whether that's a better option
13:31 slef drojf: 0930 doors open, hackfest end maybe 1630 but ask kf
13:33 * kf1 waves
13:34 oleonard Hi kf1
13:34 drojf hi kf1 :)
13:34 kf1 drojf: perhaps ask me tomorrow? I am going to write something up tonight after volunteer's meeting hopefully
13:34 drojf now now now
13:34 drojf :D
13:34 kf then take slef's
13:35 kf I think it will be harder to make people go
13:35 kf then to make them stay until 16:30
13:35 drojf i guess i write 1800 so they dont get the idea i should fly home that day :D
13:36 kf heh
13:36 drojf seems impossible with 1630 either. yeah :)
13:36 kf well technically it is possible
13:36 drojf yes with a 10 hour flight and 7 hours in frankfurt or something like that
13:37 drojf or even worse
13:38 * Guest677 waves
13:38 Guest677 erm
13:38 * wizzyrea waves
13:39 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
13:39 wizzyrea sup peeps
13:43 maximep joined #koha
13:44 kf hi wizzyrea
13:44 kf :)
13:44 wizzyrea how is kohaland today
13:45 kf sunny I think :)
13:50 paul_p joined #koha
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14:15 jcamins kf: Chester says hi.
14:15 kf aaw
14:15 kf wednesday!
14:15 wahanui it has been said that wednesday is fine for me
14:15 kf jcamins: pat Chester from me?
14:15 drojf joined #koha
14:17 * jcamins did so.
14:19 kf thx :)
14:22 Morthland11 joined #koha
14:22 Morthland11 How do I set the default framework for cataloging?
14:23 jcamins Morthland11: you don't need to. Just use whichever framework you want when you create a record.
14:23 jcamins Morthland11: or modify the Default framework.
14:23 Morthland11 i mean,
14:24 Morthland11 after I do a z39.50 search, I'd like it to default to Books
14:25 jcamins Hm. If you do a Z39.50 search after choosing the Books framework, I think it stays the same.
14:25 Morthland11 yeah.
14:26 Morthland11 One more question, how do I create another staff? Just as a new patron? Right now I am using the admin account
14:26 Morthland11 For cataloging
14:26 oleonard Yes, add a new patron
14:26 kf Morthland11: never use the admin account
14:26 oleonard And give them the permissions you want for them
14:27 kf Morthland11: create a staff user for yourself too and only use the admin account when updating koha to a newer version
14:27 * wizzyrea thinks we should put the biggest most annoying alert ever on every page when people use the db user as their login.
14:27 wizzyrea and/or make creating the initial user part of the web installer.
14:27 wizzyrea and give the db user no login rights.
14:28 kf wizzyrea: +1
14:28 jcamins I don't really know, though. I never, ever use frameworks.
14:28 jcamins And I encourage everyone I work with not to use anything other than the Default framework, too.
14:28 jcamins Yes, patrons.
14:28 jcamins wizzyrea: I think both of those are good ideas.
14:28 jcamins Maybe even all three.
14:28 * oleonard encourages paul_p to push his patch for Bug 7962
14:28 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7962 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , Cart missing from result lists
14:28 kf wizzyrea: the problem is, you would have to force them to create alibrary, create a patron category... and so on
14:28 kf wizzyrea: it's not so easy :(
14:28 * paul_p will go pushing in a few mings
14:29 paul_p (starting by some BLO/CRI patches)
14:29 Morthland11 how do you give permissions
14:29 paul_p s/mings/mins/
14:29 * wizzyrea thinks a single library definition should be part of the web installer too
14:29 wizzyrea and perhaps even a default patron category of "staff"
14:29 wizzyrea by default, regardless of what you do
14:29 kf paul_p: can you take a look at bug 7975 too? It's not in your qa list, because needs  arevert
14:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7975 blocker, P1 - high, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , can't use patron import
14:30 jcamins paul_p: don't push bug 7430 for 3.8.
14:30 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7430 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, jcamins, Passed QA , ModZebra should not be in C4::Biblio
14:30 kf wizzyrea: *cough* translations *cough*
14:30 wizzyrea does the web installer come in a translation other than english?
14:30 kf of course
14:31 wizzyrea also, you'd just add that to your languages' default db
14:31 paul_p jcamins I don't plan to push 7430 for 3.8. It adds nothing (except cleaning), so no need to hurry
14:31 jcamins paul_p: good.
14:31 jcamins paul_p: I just wanted to make sure you noticed that it wasn't for 3.8. ;)
14:31 kf wizzyrea: only saying not so easy - I think going with a big annoying message and instructions woudl be good
14:31 wizzyrea so you pick a language when you start, it imports that languages's defaults
14:31 wizzyrea sorry, bad apostrophe use.
14:31 kf big and red - you don't have created a library - DO THAT NOW - you don't have a patron category for staff - DO THAT NOW... so on
14:33 oleonard "You haven't read the shelves in juvenile non-fiction in over three years DO THAT NOW"
14:34 wizzyrea You haven't weeded the non-fiction in 10 years - someone just died because of outdated diabetes information - DO THAT NOW"
14:34 * jcamins wishes that wizzyrea's example didn't hit so close to home.
14:34 kf lol
14:35 kf wizzyrea: you said it should be annoyng...
14:35 wizzyrea hehe I did
14:35 jcamins wizzyrea: incorrect apostrophe use is very annoying. :P
14:35 wizzyrea I know, sorry
14:36 Morthland11 I still cant figure out permissions
14:36 oleonard What about them Morthland11?
14:36 jcamins wizzyrea: no, I'm saying that's a good thing.
14:36 jcamins ;)
14:36 wizzyrea patron -> details -> more -> permissions
14:36 Morthland11 Thank you
14:36 oleonard manual?
14:36 wahanui manual is at
14:36 jcamins koha instructional videos?
14:36 jcamins videos?
14:36 wahanui videos are found at and
14:37 jcamins ^^ there we go - there's a video explaining how to do this
14:49 slef is it possible to install 3.7 not in English?
14:49 kf slef: I think most installations are not finished yet - but it shoud work?
14:49 kf opac for german is done if you want to do some tests :) I have still over 9000 for staff to translate...
15:01 slef kf: I think it's not offering the choice of anything except en for intranet in the webinstaller, is it?
15:01 jcamins Why separate packages for Perl and non-Perl dependencies?
15:02 kf slef: ah reight - you have to create the templates first
15:02 kf slef: the list you see depends on your installed templates
15:02 wizzyrea perhaps for the next release we should do some sprucing to the web installer.
15:02 slef kf: agh I knew I was forgetting something. Checking INSTALL file
15:03 kf sprucing?
15:03 wizzyrea improvements, spring cleaning
15:03 kf ah
15:03 * oleonard is annoyed at the radio buttons/checkboxes in the installer with no working <label>
15:03 * oleonard tried to fix them once and found too much of a mess in how they were generated
15:03 * wizzyrea makes a wiki page for web installer improvements.
15:03 kf I think a note about the languages on the first step would be great
15:03 wizzyrea and files a bug about same.
15:04 slef errr, INSTALL doesn't mention creating the templates first
15:04 kf if you don't see your language of choise in the pull down... please check...
15:04 wizzyrea slef: this is why I was under the impression that the web installer was only in english
15:04 kf slef: no they don't :(
15:04 wizzyrea and nowhere I have seen says "create the translations first"
15:04 kf slef: it's mentioned here:[…]ANET_staff_client
15:04 kf wizzyrea: it was not necessary when we had the big big tarballs with all translations installed
15:05 * slef quietly explodes about critical instructions only being on wiki
15:05 wizzyrea ^^ except that, which (I don't think?) is in the manual
15:05 * wizzyrea too
15:05 kf I think we used to give people the files in one big tarball - so dealing with translation scripts was not necessary
15:05 slef the manual, which is not shipped with koha either
15:05 wizzyrea nope.
15:05 kf but it's really useful knowledge to translators,b ecuase you will need them after each update
15:05 slef kf: so whoever changed that should have updated INSTALL... but never mind, we know now
15:05 drojf joined #koha
15:06 wizzyrea or we should do away with INSTALL and put that in the manual
15:06 slef @query INSTALL translate templates
15:06 wizzyrea and ship the manual
15:06 kf slef: was more trying to say that things changed and we need to make it better - not going to blame anyone
15:06 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5617 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , misses some files
15:06 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7327 normal, P5 - low, ---, aleksa, Failed QA , Translation script doesn't like concatenated javascript strings
15:06 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7445 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Pushed to Master , Clicking on a tag gives "Language ... does not exist"
15:06 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6715 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, fcapovilla, Pushed to Master , xmlControlField.js always fetches the value_builder xml files in the "en" directory.
15:06 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7033 minor, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, fcapovilla, Pushed to Master , Make all strings translatable in
15:06 kf slef: there is a very old bug
15:06 slef wizzyrea: manual is too big. We're already lucky if people read INSTALL.
15:06 kf let me find it for you
15:06 oleonard No, we need the INSTALL files, but we should keep them up to date
15:06 slef kf: thank you
15:07 kf perhaps bug 1577
15:07 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1577 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, ASSIGNED , installer and language
15:07 jcamins eythian has the start of localized packages.
15:07 kf slef: yep, that one looks right to me
15:08 oleonard Do we still need INSTALL.ubuntu.lucid?
15:08 kf hm seems I had that idea earlier already... and never got around to write apatch for it
15:08 paul_p I will submit a draft for release notes on the wiki in a few minuts. Everybody welcomed to update it !!!
15:09 paul_p (3 hours writing it... rangi is right when saying it's the hardest part of the release process !)
15:09 jcamins oleonard: until the next LTS release, probably yes.
15:09 jcamins asaurat: stop being such a tease! I want to know what the new design will look like! (bug 7979 ;)
15:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7979 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , New design for staff interface
15:10 oleonard Oh, it's the other one that references an older version of Ubuntu
15:10 oleonard My real question is why do we have two?
15:10 jcamins oleonard: Lucid is the most recent LTS, but there have been a bunch of versions of Ubuntu since then, and the installation procedures are different?
15:10 jcamins That was just speculation.
15:11 jcamins I mean, I know the installation procedure is different, I'm just speculating that's why there are two.
15:11 oleonard If Lucid is the current LTS, why have a separate install for Jaunty?
15:11 wizzyrea I think we should only keep the installer for the current LTS version?
15:11 wizzyrea i mean, that makes sense to me
15:11 oleonard That's what I was thinking
15:13 jcamins We definitely don't need instructions for Jaunty.
15:13 jcamins I thought the other one was instructions for 10.10+
15:16 chris_n jcamins, oleonard:
15:17 wizzyrea !!!!! that is so awesome.
15:18 chris_n paul_p: have you seen my release notes script?
15:18 chris_n maybe some of it would be useful
15:18 paul_p chris_n nope
15:18 chris_n om
15:18 jcamins chris_n: nice!
15:18 jcamins chris_n++
15:19 * wizzyrea bounces and squees at the idea that we could do that with "edit items"
15:19 chris_n paul_p:[…]cd6fe703b;hb=HEAD
15:19 chris_n I'd have to check to be sure that's the latest version
15:20 chris_n it takes a template and grabs bugs pushed to a branch, retrieves the appropriate info on them, and inserts it into the release notes template
15:20 chris_n its in the rough, so consider yourself warned
15:20 chris_n but it has saved me *lots* of time
15:20 wizzyrea it's how he does the really great release notes posts on
15:21 * wizzyrea always likes the stable release notes
15:21 wizzyrea chris_n++ for awesome release notes.
15:21 jcamins Any chance someone could post a screenshot of the results of applying bug 7979? I'm very curious, but not at home.
15:21 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7979 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , New design for staff interface
15:21 slef wow
15:21 * chris_n wonders what slef boggles at :-)
15:22 slef apparently postgresql complains at SQL-standard escaping of single quotes (\') and it has caused one of the web apps we maintain problems
15:22 wizzyrea you mean postgres isn't perfect?
15:22 * wizzyrea boggles
15:22 * oleonard faints
15:22 * chris_n expects mbalmer to show up at any moment
15:22 slef I thought postgresql behaved perfectly if you stuck to the standards.
15:22 jcamins slef: I recommend using the database that works for the problem at hand.
15:23 slef jcamins: there are none. They are all merely differently broken.
15:23 jcamins slef: oh, that's too bad.
15:23 slef BLOOOOOOOOOD!
15:23 * slef loses it
15:24 * slef would go do some gardening, but he doesn't have a garden here.
15:24 chris_n paul_p: if you are interested, I'll send you a copy of the "template" for the current 3.6.x branch... this script *only* handles the bug portion of the notes
15:24 paul_p chris_n send it, that can always be usefull
15:28 drojf joined #koha
15:29 * wizzyrea gets slef a spot of tea
15:29 * wizzyrea gets slef a soothing lavender sachet to sniff
15:30 kf wizzyrea++ :)
15:30 * wizzyrea was trying to think of things british people might find relaxing
15:31 jcamins So... can anyone make sense of Lenora's solution?
15:31 kf wizzyrea: can you send me something too?
15:32 wizzyrea I suspect that beer and sausages really aren't relaxing.
15:32 * wizzyrea sends kf cookies
15:32 wizzyrea OIH
15:32 * wizzyrea sends kf schnitzel
15:33 chris_n paul_p: sent
15:33 * wizzyrea can't make heads or tails of it either
15:33 esofiane_ Bye #koha
15:34 jcamins I pondered a bit, and think I know what happened.
15:34 wizzyrea @marc 090
15:34 huginn wizzyrea: unknown tag 090
15:34 wizzyrea @marc 090$c
15:34 huginn wizzyrea: unknown tag 090$c
15:34 wizzyrea local number?
15:34 slef Changes submitted for bug 1577
15:34 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1577 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , installer and language
15:35 jcamins wizzyrea: it should be call number.
15:35 jcamins wizzyrea: however, I'm suspecting she upraded from 2.something, back when 090 was used for biblionumber before someone realized that was a bad idea.
15:35 wizzyrea are they putting data in the wrong place? oh i see.
15:36 jcamins I responded to the list.
15:36 wizzyrea cool
15:37 oleonard Proposed new staff client interface: from gaetan_B and asaurat
15:37 kf wizzyrea: you think schnitzel is soothing ?
15:37 * wizzyrea has no idea really
15:37 jcamins oleonard: thanks!
15:37 jcamins Wow.
15:37 jcamins kf: also doorbells, and sleighbells.
15:37 wizzyrea I would probably consider it comfort food?
15:37 jcamins kf: and brown paper packages tied up in string.
15:37 gaetan_B :) apply patch for more cake
15:37 wizzyrea gaetan_B++
15:38 kf jcamins: interesting :)
15:38 jcamins kf: the schnitzel should have noodles.
15:38 kf jcamins: pommes
15:38 sophie_m left #koha
15:38 kf jcamins: not noodles
15:38 jcamins kf: it's a song.
15:38 oleonard But Julie Andrews never sang about pommes
15:38 jcamins wizzyrea: I presume that's why you thought of schnitzel?
15:39 * kf is confused now and goes back to staring on facet building code
15:39 wizzyrea yes :)
15:39 oleonard One should never presume to understand why someone thinks of schnitzel
15:39 kf oleonard: I think the koha logo in the background looks a bit weird
15:39 kf oleonard: because we have no transparency for the news
15:39 kf perhaps we should leave it out?
15:40 jcamins oleonard: three of us thought of the same thing, so I think it was a pretty safe bet. :P
15:40 jcamins kf: agreed.
15:40 asaurat there's still an issue about 7979 when translated for which I'll make a follow-up but the english version is ready to be tested
15:41 kf asaurat: we have been talking about the koha icon in the background
15:41 kf I am not sure it works well here
15:41 kf when there are news I mean
15:42 paul_p wizzyrea if you want something you should like with your cup of tea, you can head to =[…]/koha/
15:42 reiveune bye
15:42 gaetan_B kf: it's true it's not really identifiable with news on top :-/, but it's role is to be a placeholder when there are no news actually
15:42 reiveune left #koha
15:43 kf gaetan_B: yeah I think your initial draft the green was a bit more... opaque? and we had transparency for the news s
15:43 datadoctor joined #koha
15:43 * gaetan_B is commenting the bug ticket to explain choices made so far
15:43 kf gaetan_B: I think I would like it better without the logo right now
15:43 gaetan_B yes in the first drafts we were using the same green as on the rest of the interface
15:44 oleonard Ah, my screenshot is not accurate. CSS was not fully reloaded
15:44 gaetan_B the way transparency is handled in css (it's inherited from the parent element) makes it difficult to have a transparent background
15:44 kf I really like the top search bar
15:44 gaetan_B asaurat: what about a 1px transparent png for the background of the news ?
15:44 kf with the green highlighting
15:44 kf of the field the focus is in
15:45 oleonard Why a png? Why not CSS opacity?
15:45 paul_p kf & oleonard & gaetan_B & asaurat = don't forget to flush your FF !!!
15:45 gaetan_B i think that top search bar is *awesome*
15:45 jcamins What's the top search bar?
15:45 gaetan_B oleonard: because css opacity would be inherited to the children element, and the text would also be transparent
15:45 kf gaetan_B: we agree :)
15:45 paul_p I LOVE[…]ategorycode=A_EXT !
15:46 jcamins paul_p: what's the login? I want to know what we're talking about! ;)
15:46 paul_p jcamins test / test
15:46 paul_p jcamins we're talking of a surprise ;-)
15:46 jcamins Heh. That's easy.
15:46 jcamins Oh wow.
15:46 kf gaetan_B: can I hide the icons? ;)
15:46 jcamins Oh wow wow wow.
15:47 kf gaetan_B: I am not sure about the mouse over color - it's a bit too bright for me, I think a bit darker would be better readable
15:47 jcamins Wow.
15:47 paul_p (don't fall from your chair jcamins ;-) )
15:47 jcamins paul_p: that's really nice!
15:47 jcamins gaetan_B++
15:47 jcamins asaurat++
15:47 gaetan_B kf: we discussed this with asaurat, i think what would be nice would be to have a user css library on the wiki, like we have a sql queries library, with that kind of tweaks
15:47 chris_n more rounded corners++
15:47 kf gaetan_B: yep that too :)
15:48 kf gaetan_B++, asaurat++ - don't think I don't like it - I do :)
15:48 gaetan_B asaurat said we might make it a syspref, but i think that would be overkill
15:48 chris_n paul_p++ #nice interface improvements
15:48 paul_p jcamins = perf enhancement + this = 3.8 release that ppl will remember for a long time ;-)
15:48 kf gaetan_B: what if we didn't change the icon and text color on mouse over, but made the border change color like we do for other elements where the focus is?
15:48 kf for the menu buttons
15:49 paul_p chris_n I made NOTHING (well, except, as gaetan_B & asaurat boss say "I want that to be done for 3.8")
15:49 kf paul_p: we have still a few bugs to fix tho
15:49 kf and have to agree on the design
15:49 chris_n paul_p++ # for being a cool boss ;-)
15:49 edveal Has anyone reported or seen display issues with the fines column within "My Summery"? The issue I am seeing is that it displays "NO" even when fines show under the "Fine" tab.
15:49 gaetan_B kf: i woul also make it a proposed css tweak, that should be easy (the icons are css sprites)
15:50 kf gaetan_B: yeah, but couldn't we try and make the default a bit less ... bright?
15:50 kf I think the contrast is not good on mouse over links as is
15:50 kf and that's my only 2 things!
15:50 jcamins Yes, I think a little darker for mouseover would be good.
15:50 kf I really do like it, only the green on mouseover
15:50 gaetan_B ohh colors vary super wildly across monitors
15:50 chris_n true
15:51 chris_n maybe we need to provide a koha color-profile... :-)
15:51 gaetan_B byt the way it's the green from
15:51 kf gaetan_B: I know, but it's really hard to read for example the small links on the news on mouseover (for me)
15:51 gaetan_B ok i'll try another shade
15:51 paul_p chris_n that will be the next enhancement ;-)
15:51 wizzyrea oo pretty
15:52 gaetan_B but that's very much readable on my screen, hence the color choice ;)
15:52 chris_n gaetan_B++
15:52 wizzyrea notice table is weird on[…]rs/
15:52 wizzyrea patron messaging preferences
15:52 chris_n asaurat++
15:52 asaurat gaetan_B++
15:52 asaurat =)
15:53 gaetan_B wizzyrea: hmm yes, but i had this problem before, i don't think it comes from this patch
15:53 gaetan_B need to chek this though...
15:53 gaetan_B asaurat++
15:53 wizzyrea I like the little icons
15:53 oleonard I agree that the green hover color should be a little darker
15:53 wizzyrea yea, it should be a bit darker
15:53 gaetan_B ok it sound slike we have a consensus here :)
15:53 paul_p wizzyrea  I think it's not related to this change, it was like this before
15:53 kf advanced search would need a bit of tweaking too
15:54 wizzyrea yea, I don't like the boxes around availability and library
15:54 kf paul_p: hmm not sure, recently broken then
15:54 kf there are also notices missing - not good
15:54 wizzyrea (inside the box)
15:54 kf perhaps broken sample data?
15:54 wizzyrea could be
15:54 jcamins I like the wide frames, but not the individual frames.
15:55 wizzyrea you going to give circulation screen the same treatment?
15:55 oleonard jcamins: ?
15:55 jcamins And I think there should be the same frame around Item type.
15:55 jcamins oleonard: on the advanced search.
15:55 wizzyrea I honestly think you could put that koha logo on every page.
15:55 gaetan_B wizzyrea: i hope we can work on the rest of the interface yes but it's a lot of work!
15:55 wizzyrea oh it's ginormous
15:55 jcamins oleonard: I don't really know what to call it. There's a frame around "Only items currently available." I don't think that looks so good.
15:55 gaetan_B wizzyrea: one idea was to have the icons of each module in the background of every page
15:56 wizzyrea ^^ my complaint was the same
15:56 wizzyrea hm
15:56 oleonard jcamins: It's the default style for a fieldset in this new design
15:56 wizzyrea what if instead of the upper koha logo you put the icon there
15:56 gaetan_B jcamins: i see what you mean, that's a fieldset inside a fieldset i guess
15:56 jcamins I like the way "Coded information filters" is done.
15:56 wizzyrea and put the koha swoop down in the body
15:56 oleonard we could define a different style for fieldset > fieldset
15:56 * chris_n feels like a kid in candy shop
15:56 chris_n lunch
15:56 gaetan_B oleonard: yes that's need i think
15:57 jcamins Except that there's a problem with Festschrift and Index. Maybe this has always been true, though?
15:57 jcamins Wait... is that entirely new? I don't recall ever seeing that before.
15:57 wizzyrea
15:57 jcamins Nice!
15:58 jcamins wizzyrea: but which icon?
15:58 jcamins *put
15:58 wizzyrea the appropriate one for that area
15:58 jcamins Ohhh.
15:58 asaurat I have to go, see u all tomorrow
15:58 jcamins Yes, smart!
15:58 wizzyrea
15:58 * oleonard votes against putting the background image on every page
15:58 * jcamins was just going to hide the background image with CSS.
15:58 wizzyrea lol.
15:59 wizzyrea I like it there. It's colorful and breaks up all the effin white.
15:59 jcamins Oh, can I register a request? Please do the CSS such that it can be overridden.
15:59 wizzyrea it can be with opacusercss?
15:59 wizzyrea and !important?
15:59 jcamins wizzyrea: that's what I thought.
15:59 gaetan_B intranetusercss should do the trick yes
16:00 gaetan_B (i already tested it a little)
16:00 jcamins Turns out we did something wacky with the OPAC and some things can't be overridden at all.
16:00 * wizzyrea uses !important when that happens.
16:00 asaurat left #koha
16:00 jcamins I don't remember exactly what, but !important didn't work because we already had !important set way back at the beginning, and Firefox hated me for it.
16:00 wizzyrea hm
16:00 wizzyrea you'd have to be specific
16:00 wizzyrea i haven't found anything i can't override
16:01 gaetan_B there  are probably going to be a lot of polarizing points, like the background logo
16:01 gaetan_B so it is important to leave it highly tweakable with intranetusercss
16:01 wizzyrea ^^
16:01 gaetan_B indeed
16:01 gaetan_B but i like the background logo a lot :-[
16:01 wizzyrea I do too
16:02 * wizzyrea also thought to add the news to the circ screen
16:02 wizzyrea the intranet news
16:02 wizzyrea if there is another place in the intranet where people need to see the most recent news
16:02 wizzyrea it's there, imo
16:02 gaetan_B wizzyrea: isn't the circulation screen already pretty packed ?
16:03 jcamins So don't do that with the Intranet. ;)
16:03 wizzyrea not really
16:03 jcamins wizzyrea: yeah, I'd have to find the exact problem when I'm at home.
16:03 jcamins wizzyrea: I guess my point was "don't use !important" because FF gets confused if you have more than one thing marked !important.
16:03 oleonard gaetan_B:
16:03 wizzyrea ^^
16:03 gaetan_B oh yes, that's screen has some free room that's right !
16:03 wizzyrea
16:03 wizzyrea
16:03 wizzyrea sorry, 2nd
16:03 wizzyrea it would also benefit from cute lil icons :)
16:04 wizzyrea you gonna be hanging on to this sandbox for a while?
16:04 * wizzyrea would like her staff to look at it
16:04 wizzyrea guess I could put the patch on my test server here.
16:04 kf icons!
16:05 kf :D
16:05 kf wizzyrea: since hackfest it's common knowledge that I don't like icons :)
16:05 paul_p wizzyrea I don't plan to drop this sandbox, you can use it. You can even recreate it if needed (it's bug 7979)
16:05 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7979 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , New design for staff interface
16:05 wizzyrea lol kf.
16:05 wizzyrea so you don't like the new home page?
16:06 wizzyrea I'm just thinking of a similar treatment as that for
16:06 kf wizzyrea: I can hide them :P
16:06 wizzyrea lol.
16:07 wizzyrea change_for_the_better++
16:08 oleonard The home page logo works well if you just have a little bit of news, not so well if you have a lot
16:08 oleonard (background logo that is)
16:09 jcamins Lenora upgraded from 3.0.
16:09 jcamins paul_p: did 3.0 use 090 for biblionumber?
16:09 paul_p jcamins yes, that was the default field for biblionumber IIRC
16:09 jcamins paul_p: ah. Yikes.
16:09 oleonard gaetan_B: I'm curious why you used a background image for <div class="gradient"> instead of a CSS gradient
16:11 gaetan_B oleonard: hmmm, well, we just didn't think of using a css gradient :-/
16:11 gaetan_B could be a nice improvement !
16:11 wizzyrea i love css gradients.
16:11 * wizzyrea will never use images again.
16:12 oleonard Take that, IE
16:12 * wizzyrea shakes her fist in IE's general direction
16:12 jcamins I only know of one Koha library that uses IE for the staff client.
16:12 wizzyrea you have to wonder if IE users just really think the web is broken.
16:12 jcamins I just shake my head in sad bemusement every time I think about them.
16:12 wizzyrea or really looks that ugly.
16:12 jcamins wizzyrea: I think they must.
16:13 oleonard But their nerves are so dulled from using terrible software that they don't notice
16:14 * oleonard is a little weirded out that the header menu has no border under it
16:15 paul_p oleonard the header, you mean the main menu (circulation patrons search plus) ?
16:15 oleonard Yes
16:16 paul_p thinking of it, I probably agree with you
16:16 gaetan_B oleonard: i would make it another intranetusercss tweak, personally i really like it like that :)
16:17 jcamins In 3.10 we should add a syspref search to the main intranet search.
16:17 jcamins (unless there's already a string for that, in which case we could do it in 3.8, too;)
16:18 gaetan_B i just tried and i confirm that i like it better without border-bottom
16:18 jcamins (to show up only if the user has permission to modify sysprefs)
16:19 paul_p another suggestion (from someone that is totally irrelevant about design...) = putting a style to <th>
16:19 paul_p (for now, we just have the grey we already had
16:19 paul_p )
16:20 gaetan_B paul_p: styling tables and forms should be the next topic for interface design yes
16:20 gaetan_B there is a lot to do in this direction
16:21 paul_p + this css show some inconsistencies we have in html = for example, = why is syspref in a blue box and not other parts ?
16:22 oleonard Because it contains a search box
16:22 kf yep
16:22 jcamins paul_p: because it has a search box. That's part of the reason I think that should move up to the main search.
16:22 oleonard jcamins: On which pages?
16:22 datadoctor We shadowed the buttons on ours using CSS.
16:22 wizzyrea (but only for superlibrarians)
16:22 kf nice idea!
16:22 gaetan_B jcamins: i like this idea a lot !
16:23 jcamins oleonard: I'd like it on all pages, honestly, but I'd settle for main page and admin module.
16:23 oleonard All pages is too much IMO
16:23 JesseM joined #koha
16:23 wizzyrea ^^ agree with oleonard here
16:23 jcamins oleonard: okay, main page and admin module then.
16:25 * jcamins isn't a designer, and only spends time in the intranet when there's configuration or cataloging to do.
16:26 oleonard How about this: a "command console" with access to system prefs. Can pop up from any page if you have permissions
16:29 jcamins Sounds good to me.
16:29 * oleonard wills it into being with his mind
16:30 datadoctor Sysadmin with a command console? Cool! On menus, using the CSS3 box-shadow attribute makes the buttons jump out. Good luck with your work! I'm off to lunch.
16:31 * jcamins thinks the background image for the command console should be the rebel alliance icon from Star Wars.
16:32 wizzyrea omgosh oleonard that would be amazing.
16:32 wizzyrea and it *opens in a new window*
16:32 wizzyrea so you don't lose your place >.<
16:33 paul_p ok, it's time to leave for me !
16:33 hankbank joined #koha
16:33 wizzyrea bye paul_p
16:33 wizzyrea :)
16:34 oleonard What do you guys think of this change (if TagsInputOnList is on)
16:36 kf oleonard: I like it :)
16:38 * wizzyrea read that as "pale ontology"
16:38 oleonard Now you have to find a title for which those tags would be appropriate
16:39 * wizzyrea giggles
16:39 jcamins oleonard: easy. On the classification of ghosts.
16:40 * oleonard wonders how many libraries have TagsInputOnList turned on
16:40 * oleonard just wanted to make it less ugly
16:41 wizzyrea i like it
16:41 kf oleonard: best motivation :)
16:43 JesseM joined #koha
16:44 clrh_ joined #koha
16:44 wizzyrea[…]ller_improvements
16:45 wizzyrea kf - please add any additional translation related tasks you might like
16:52 gaetan_B i just created a wiki page to list what needs to be tweaked on 7979 before it is pushed :
16:52 gaetan_B[…]nterface_redesign
16:53 gaetan_B please feel free to add to it, and we'll discuss it :)
17:01 kf left #koha
17:17 jcamins Has anyone else noticed that Voyager OPACs misreport their character encoding?
17:20 jcamins And, in fact, generate completely invalid HTML pages?
17:20 cait joined #koha
17:20 oleonard Well that part doesn't surprise me
17:20 jcamins oleonard: no, doesn't surprise me either.
17:21 jcamins oleonard: and actually, I now understand why the character encoding is reported wrong. The first tag in the generated HTML is <script> not <html>
17:22 cait back
17:25 libsysguy joined #koha
17:30 Oak joined #koha
17:31 Oak kia ora #koha
17:31 Oak hello miss cait
17:46 thd joined #koha
17:49 datadoctor The staff interface looks great, but adding a small offset drop shadow might bring the buttons out more, maybe with opacity set to 40% to allow the logo to show through the shadow.
17:50 cait hello mr oak :)
17:50 jcamins datadoctor: you should add your comment on the bug, so that it doesn't get lost.
17:50 cait datadoctor: there is also a wiki page - if that's easier :)
17:50 jcamins Or the wiki page.
17:50 wahanui the wiki page is broken again.
17:50 oleonard datadoctor: Or quote some CSS we could try to understand what you mean
17:50 datadoctor will do!
17:51 jcamins wahanui: forget the wiki page
17:51 wahanui jcamins: I forgot wiki page
17:57 slef wahay and I repair the network uplink with minutes to spare
17:57 slef now for a quick look at the kohacon email folder
17:57 cait hi slef
17:58 slef is mle here?
17:58 slef @seen mle
17:58 huginn slef: mle was last seen in #koha 2 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 15 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <mle> ; )
17:59 slef I can't get onto instant messaging :-/
17:59 cait haven't seen mle in a while
18:00 cait hm and no Brooke?
18:00 slef a reminder would have been good but I've been flat out and forgot
18:01 slef ok, shall we do this? Who wants to chair?
18:01 cait would you?
18:01 cait I think I will be busy keeping notes
18:01 slef huginn will keep notes
18:01 cait making notes... for the hackfest page
18:01 huginn slef: downloading the Perl source
18:01 slef but I will
18:01 slef #startmeeting
18:01 wahanui if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me
18:01 huginn Meeting started Wed Apr 18 18:01:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is slef. Information about MeetBot at
18:01 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01 edveal left #koha
18:01 slef #info This is a meeting about kohacon12 planning. Thanks to all who are taking part.
18:01 slef #topic Introductions
18:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions
18:01 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:02 slef please introduce yourselves, starting with #info like wahanui did
18:02 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
18:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:02 slef #info MJ Ray,, southern England
18:03 datadoctor Something like this: -moz-box-shadow: -5px 5px 3px rgba(90,90,90,0.5); -webkit-box-shadow: -5px 5px 3px rgba(90,90,90,0.5); box-shadow: -5px 5px 3px rgba(90,90,90,0.5);
18:03 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, Liblime/PTFS
18:03 datadoctor That's a drop shadow, 5 pixel offset, 3 pixel blur semi-opaque to show underlying Koha logo.
18:04 slef guess jcamins_away won't be with us then
18:04 cait datadoctor: your comments will show up in the meeting minutes :) perhaps add to the bug or wiki page?
18:04 slef I'm having some problems with internet access.
18:04 datadoctor oops jumped back in without reading...will put to bug report
18:04 jcamins_away slef: no, sorry. Have to run to an in-person meeting.
18:04 datadoctor Introducing Fred Pierre as datadoctor
18:05 datadoctor Stow, Ohio, USA
18:05 datadoctor #info Fred Pierre, Stow, Ohio USA
18:05 slef can anyone remind me what headings we need to discuss? Sorry for being so disrupted.
18:05 slef I think it's roadmap, scheduling and sponsorship
18:05 cait we can check the last minutes
18:06 cait #info minutes from last meeting http://meetings.koha-community[…]-04-11-18.00.html
18:06 slef except I can't because my internet access is dead :-/
18:06 cait ok, I will go through them :)
18:06 cait slef: did you post a list of paper details for scheduling somewhere? :)
18:06 thd slef: How can you be here if your internet access is dead?
18:06 cait magic
18:07 slef thd: that's what I don't understand!
18:07 slef oh wow... load on my outbound proxy is 4.52
18:07 thd slef: Do you mean that you have a DNS problem?
18:08 cait slef: perhaps start with ashort update?
18:08 slef thd: I think I have an everything-that-is-not-already connected problem.
18:08 cait slef: sponsoring, how many registered, number of papers
18:09 cait I confess I am curious how many people have registered now
18:09 slef ok
18:09 slef #topic Roadmap to KohaCon12
18:09 Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to KohaCon12
18:10 slef #info registrations were at 32 on Monday and I have not touched the registration queue since. I will do as soon as my internet access is back up.
18:10 slef sponsoring info is given on[…]aCon12_Volunteers
18:11 slef maybe someone can get the numbers from there
18:11 slef again, that is Monday's situation
18:12 cait Vague basic event cost estimate: about £3000
18:12 cait Committed by 10 April: £960
18:12 cait Current forecast: £4478.41
18:12 cait Arrived by 12 April: £628.41
18:12 cait that about right?
18:12 slef that was the situation on Monday I think
18:13 slef Current forecast sponsorship income I think
18:13 slef #info Papers - only 3 new papers this week, but deadline is Friday so we expect a surge. List to be posted once I'm back online
18:13 thd slef: Was £4478.41 the forecast cost or forecast sponsorship?
18:14 slef thd: forecase sponsorship
18:14 slef forecast
18:14 slef cait - I think there were 2 new hackfest papers since last meeting too? I'm not tracking those since I've been forwarding them (but I am keeping copies)
18:14 cait #link[…]aCon12_Volunteers for budget headings
18:15 cait slef: rangi mentioned one about solr and one from robin
18:15 cait slef: I was going to ask you to send me the details for those
18:15 slef cait: sorry. Didn't you get them?
18:15 cait those 2 not
18:15 slef Thought I forwarded the one from robin
18:15 cait I have 4 so far
18:15 cait ok when I paste a list on paste?
18:15 slef and the solr one is a conference paper
18:15 cait ah, you can't reach thet
18:16 cait yes, he said he thinks it woudl perhaps be more suitable for hackfest
18:16 slef the presenter is only attending conference
18:16 slef so we should try to schedule that one against a break
18:16 cait ok
18:16 slef shall we move the topic to scheduling?
18:16 cait so I know about 5 then
18:17 cait but only have abstracts for 4
18:17 cait ok
18:17 cait conference or hackfest?
18:18 cait I think conference after deadline and when list of accepted talkswas posted?
18:19 slef either
18:19 slef #topic scheduling
18:19 Topic for #koha is now scheduling
18:20 cait want me to start with hackfest?
18:21 slef yes please
18:21 cait ok
18:21 cait i was thinking
18:21 cait starting at 9, presentations at 9:30 when everyone is there, having presentations in the morning
18:21 cait and hacking, discussing, working in groups in the afternoon
18:21 cait 90 minute lunch break
18:22 cait breaks between presentations too?
18:22 cait not sure how long in the afternoon - how long can we stay there?
18:22 slef I think until 5. Let me see if our booking papers say.
18:22 cait ok
18:23 slef I'm back online :)
18:23 cait yay :)
18:23 thd cait: My memory of previous conferences is that it took an hour after starting on hackfest days for everyone to appear.
18:23 slef thd: I was wondering that and pondered presentations at 10
18:23 cait thd: i think we need to do at least 2 presentations each day
18:23 cait the length varies
18:23 cait but woud perhaps be good to group together some topics
18:23 slef #info we have booked the venue 0900-1800
18:24 cait not sure when we go for lunch - 12 till 13:30? later, earlier?
18:24 slef 12:30-2 would make it nearer halfway
18:24 cait yep
18:24 thd The conferences which I am remembering had relatively little formalism about the hackfest days in terms of presentations.
18:24 cait #idea lunch break 12:30 - 2, 90 minutes
18:25 cait thd: we got papers, so I think we should schedule those
18:25 cait but I was thinking aobu tkeeping the afternoons open
18:25 cait for whatever people want to discuss or work on
18:25 thd The more formal the arrangement of the hackfest is in terms of presentations the more likely people may be to show up early.
18:25 cait ah
18:26 cait thd: so you think half an hour would be ok, if people knew that a presentation was about to start at a given time?
18:26 slef I think having formal presentation times morning and afternoon is a good idea and makes people more lightspeed to show up early
18:26 cait slef: please tell me if you disagree with something I suggest :)
18:26 slef likely not lightspeed
18:26 slef damn you autocomplete
18:26 thd I think that later arrivals during hackfest days were often due to people hacking half the night or falling ill from hacking all night during conference days.
18:27 cait thd: makes sense
18:27 slef maybe we need to be careful to try to drag people out to dinner/bars in the evening?
18:27 thd cait: So yes, I think that if you schedule a presentation at a time people will be liable to appear on time if they are interested.
18:27 cait slef: my idea was that we could perhaps have some summary meeting in the afternoon
18:27 cait we did that in marseille
18:27 cait so groups working on something could present what they did
18:28 slef cait: at the beginning or end of the afternoon?
18:28 cait as a follow up to ideas sparked from presentations and other more informal group work
18:28 cait slef: not sure, we did it at the end, but some people had run out by then, so perhaps something not too late in the afternoon
18:28 cait if you like the idea
18:29 slef I like the idea, especially if it worked in Marseille
18:29 cait :)
18:29 slef proven ideas are good
18:29 cait I think it did
18:29 thd Definitely having separate groups report to everyone is important.
18:29 slef why did people run out early, do you know?
18:29 cait getting home :)
18:29 cait we sometimes forgot to do the meeting
18:29 cait so I would set a time for it
18:29 slef oh right... home faraway home?
18:29 slef or hotels?
18:30 cait lots of biblibre developers in marseille too, so a mix of all
18:30 cait but not that important I think - we should set a time and try to do it then I think
18:30 cait perhaps 4?
18:30 cait 4:00
18:31 slef maybe ask at start of day when people think they will finish?
18:31 slef and set the time that way
18:31 slef but expect 4 if we don't see different?
18:31 cait we could also do a short something in the morning, and one before end
18:31 cait yeah, I will put a note on the to be created wiki page
18:32 slef #link empty outline posted at[…]ohaCon12_Schedule
18:32 cait #idea have groups reporting about what they have been working on in the afternoon/morning - time to be discussed
18:32 cait another idea from dpavlin for the hackfest was to have kind of a gbsd
18:32 cait a group working on fixing old long standing bugs
18:33 slef yes that would be a good session I think
18:33 slef #idea hackfest bugsquash, a group working on fixing old long standing bugs
18:34 cait heh, was still typing on my #info :)
18:34 slef my typing is scary
18:34 slef even scarier since I got autocomplete
18:34 cait ok, now for the action items
18:34 cait do you want me to put the hackfest notes on the schedule page?
18:35 cait ah ok, there is a heading already
18:35 cait i will put a lit of the papers
18:35 slef just a suggestion
18:35 cait and a timetable
18:35 thd :) autocomplete is a nice idea which very scary in most actual implementations.
18:35 slef I think I'm going to put a table of paper / presenter / time, then a timetable
18:35 cait with a suggestion for scheduling, if that's ok?
18:36 slef that'd be brilliant - do with it as you will
18:36 cait what about a list of things we might need?
18:36 cait projector, power strips (not sure the dining room is suited for a hackfest), ...?
18:37 cait #action cait to put a list of hackfest talks and a timetable on the wiki
18:37 slef This is sort of venue things.
18:37 thd slef: Do you have all the recording equipment which you might need to record the hackfest?
18:37 slef really could do with mle here
18:37 thd ... even if only audio?
18:37 cait slef: perhaps we can just start a list somewhere - was only not sure where to put it
18:37 slef cait: put it on the volunteers page I think
18:37 thd ... at least for the presentations?
18:38 slef cait: I'm using that as a page for volunteers, rather than a page about volunteers.
18:38 slef thd: I have enough equipment to do some sort of recordings, but I think we have better equipment available.
18:38 cait #action cait to start notes about hackfest on the volunteers page (list of things we need, etc.)
18:38 slef cait: I have a projector here, about 2 metres from me now.
18:39 * wizzyrea assumes gaetan_b has gone home for the day
18:39 cait ok, i think I have enough action items for now :) moving on to friday excursions?
18:39 cait wizzyrea: i hope so - it's 8:40 pm
18:39 slef #topic The Friday Off - Possible Excursions
18:39 thd Last week I suggested a separate microphone for questions put to the presenter.  Presenters should be encouraged to repeat the question in the absence of a questioners' microphone.
18:39 Topic for #koha is now The Friday Off - Possible Excursions
18:39 wizzyrea oh sorry meeting
18:40 cait thd: I think probably more needed for the conf, but i agre that a microphone is nice
18:40 slef #info thanks to cait and mle for posting about fish
18:40 cait :)
18:40 slef has anyone been hooked, do we know?
18:41 cait slef: I don't know - I tested the form and mle told me he got my mail
18:41 slef #link
18:41 cait so it seems to work, have not heard back from him if he got more
18:41 slef cait: do you know what bit before the @ it is going to?
18:41 cait his email address
18:41 thd cait: The issue I was identifying is not for the audience present but for a recording which can be understood.
18:41 cait he told me to use that
18:42 cait slef: checking
18:42 slef cait: ok, no worries, I'll ask him when I see him. Could have used kohacon12 at so we could all process them.
18:43 slef (he's not been in much this week - as planned)
18:44 cait slef: it's mle before the @
18:44 slef cait: thanks.
18:44 slef #action slef to ask mle how many fishermen are interested
18:44 slef has it been posted to the koha@... mailing list? Should I circulate it to registered people?
18:44 cait slef: perhaps we should send  a note to the koha mailing list about it too
18:45 cait I think not everyone might be checking the website regularly
18:45 slef cait: snap!
18:45 cait slef: I don't think it has - to answer your question :)
18:46 cait can you?
18:46 slef ok, could you, thd, datadoctor or jwagner mail it out?
18:46 slef I will if needed, but I think I'm behind with papers and sponsorship admin.
18:46 cait oh
18:46 cait we fogot to set a deadline
18:47 slef I think 30 April was discussed in meeting
18:47 cait perhaps I should add that?
18:47 thd slef: Are you asking me or others to send a note about fishing?
18:47 jwagner Sorry, mail what out -- reminder about the fishing trip?
18:47 slef cait: yes please!
18:47 slef thd: yes, jwagner: yes :)
18:48 cait #action cait add deadline april 30th to post about fishing trip
18:48 jwagner I can do it if no one else is going to
18:48 slef #action cait to tell jwagner once post updated, jwagner to mail it out
18:49 slef ok? thanks both
18:49 jwagner sure
18:49 thd jwagner: I nominate you, especially if you have any interest in fishing.
18:49 jwagner Just a mention of the trip & a pointer to the web site?
18:49 jwagner I have no interest in fishing, but I'd like the boat trip :-)
18:49 cait that ok as text? UPDATE: Please register until April 30th latest so arrangements can be made.
18:50 slef jwagner: yes. As much or as little as you want of the post, plus a link.
18:50 cait proof reading please
18:50 slef cait: register before... I think
18:50 cait ok
18:50 * thd would be more interested in some other excursion if I could attend.
18:50 slef UPDATE: Please register before 30th April at the latest so arrangements can be made.
18:50 slef is how I'd word it
18:51 cait done
18:51 slef because Europeans write day month year don't we? ;)
18:51 jwagner But should we encourage the practice :-)
18:51 slef well except the Hungarians I think
18:51 cait slef: i always get confused about that in English :)
18:52 slef anyyyyway
18:52 slef shall we move on? I think the other Friday excursions can still wait
18:52 thd slef: All sensible people put the day first unless using ISO numerically sorted notation.  Putting the day between the month and the year has no logical sense.
18:52 cait jwagner: telling you now that it#s done and you can mail out ;)
18:53 slef #topic Sponsorship
18:53 Topic for #koha is now Sponsorship
18:53 jwagner OK, will send message
18:54 slef We have had one request for attendee sponsorship from someone whose university has refused to fund their travel. At the moment, it looks like it might be financially possible, but how do we feel in principle about the idea?
18:55 cait I think if we do it
18:55 cait we should give others a chance too
18:55 jwagner slef, I'd be against doing it just because someone asked. But I can see a future in having a "scholarship" for a person to attend, with qualifications & how to decide spelled out
18:56 cait like having a set amount and asking people to write up a little summary
18:56 thd slef: I think that there should be a scholarship program for people who could not fund their own way.
18:56 cait ok, seems we all agree :)
18:56 slef OK, it sounds like this is basically "not this year" but if we can give money to kohacon13 we should encourage it to run a scholarship programme?
18:57 slef Have I understood this right?
18:57 cait i think we could do this year too - if someone was willing to put time into that now :(
18:57 cait I mean writing up something and sorting out money etc.
18:57 thd slef: If you have some excess funds from sponsorship why not make those available to people who might not be able to attend otherwise?
18:58 slef Yeah I don't think we can run a full scholarship application system in time with the available volunteers.
18:58 edveal joined #koha
18:59 thd Even an ad hoc system would be better than absolutely refusing the one person who asked.
18:59 slef thd: we do not have excess funds yet. We forecast an excess.
19:00 cait hm difficult
19:00 thd slef: Yes, I was just about to identify that as the problem.
19:01 slef and I fear that by the time we do have a definite excess, travel fares will be prohibitively expensive
19:01 slef Have previous kohacon sponsored any attendees?
19:01 thd If excess funds appear by some cutoff date then they might be appropriated to help some people attend, otherwise, I would suggest rolling them over to KohaCon 2013.
19:01 cait I don't know about any - but I haven't been involed in organisation before
19:01 slef Should I suggest people approach sponsors directly?
19:01 wizzyrea i don't know if olugbenga (no idea how to spell it) was sponsored
19:02 slef potential sponsors
19:02 wizzyrea his was a pretty special case though, he was coming from nigeria and it was going to be crazy expensive
19:02 slef gbenga works for a Koha vendor I think
19:02 wizzyrea though, he didn't get a visa and thusly could not come anyway  :(
19:02 wizzyrea an australian transit visa, of all things.
19:02 slef wizzyrea: are you talking... yes, kohacon10
19:03 slef I remember that
19:03 wizzyrea right, 10
19:03 cait we could ask rangi later
19:03 thd The rich world has the 'unfair' advantage of having the lowest fairs between other rich world locations.
19:04 wizzyrea either way I'm not sure it's much of a precedent.
19:04 slef ok well I'll try to get more idea of needed decision dates from this requestor and if there's time to run some sort of maybe-scholarship-system, set that up
19:04 slef sp cam we ahree wotj th
19:04 slef grr
19:04 cait so can we agree?
19:05 slef so can we agree with thd's line "If excess funds appear by some cutoff date then they might be appropriated to help some people attend, otherwise, I would suggest rolling them over to KohaCon 2013"?
19:05 jwagner +1
19:05 thd +1
19:05 cait +1
19:06 * jwagner has sent listserv message about fishing trip, cross that one off the list
19:06 slef #agreed "If excess funds appear by some cutoff date then they might be appropriated to help some people attend, otherwise, I would suggest rolling them over to KohaCon 2013"
19:06 fredericd #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil
19:06 fredericd hello
19:06 slef anything else before next meeting?
19:07 slef hello fredericd and thanks for your sponsorship
19:07 cait fredericd++ :)
19:07 cait fredericd: will you attend? :)
19:07 cait slef: nothing from me
19:07 fredericd Is there something planned in the hackfest about performances?
19:08 cait fredericd: there is a talk at the hackfest
19:08 fredericd There are endless discussion on the subject and not that much action!
19:08 slef #topic next meeting
19:08 Topic for #koha is now next meeting
19:08 cait i will put a list of talks for the hackfest in the wiki later today or tomorrow latest
19:08 fredericd cait++
19:08 cait fredericd: there is also some action - like the work on plack :)
19:08 fredericd Yes, I will attend the hackfest
19:08 cait lots of work done at the hackfest in marseille - dpavlin_away can tell you all about it
19:09 slef #info next meeting Wednesday 25 April 18:00 UTC, 19:00 BST, 20:00 MESZ, 14:00 US Eastern
19:09 slef thanks all for taking part
19:09 slef #endmeeting
19:09 Topic for #koha is now 3.6.4 and 3.4.8 and 3.2.11 Now Available || Koha Community Website - || General IRC meeting, 2 May 2012 at 2:00 UTC+0
19:09 huginn Meeting ended Wed Apr 18 19:09:14 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
19:09 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-04-18-18.01.html
19:09 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]2-04-18-18.01.txt
19:09 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]18-18.01.log.html
19:09 cait fredericd: looking forward to meet you :)
19:09 fredericd Yes, I'd like to see dpavlin_away work, and try it
19:09 mle_ #info mle (not feeling well)
19:09 cait ooh
19:09 cait hi mle_
19:09 cait hope you get better soon
19:09 slef mle_: you just missed it!
19:09 mle_ cait, I ordered power strips.
19:09 cait slef: be nice :)
19:09 cait mle_: perfect :)
19:10 mle_ i have most of the kit to do audio streaming and have done it before
19:10 thd I do not know what a cut off date should be but sponsoring the attendance one person at a very late date because of high last minute air fares instead of multiple people with the same amount of money the following year might be a poor investment relatively.
19:10 mle_ the streaming is not the issue it is the post processing of the archive that takes a long time
19:11 mle_ cait i think we didnt book a projector for the hackfest for reasons of cost and we didnt think it would be so useful. however there is still plenty of time to source one.
19:11 mle_ (and a screen)
19:11 slef when should a reminder for this meeting be sent out? Wednesday morning? Tuesday?
19:11 mle_ is there anything else the is really unlikely not to work with THe Dining Room as a hackfest room?
19:11 thd mle_: Is the reason that archive processing takes longer because an archive is expected to be higher quality than a live stream?
19:12 mle_ thd: no its because you have to go through it in real time and edit it a bit
19:12 cait mle_: I think it would be helpful to have one - perhaps a smaller one?
19:12 * slef waves up and down and points at the projector sat by his desk
19:12 mle_ : )
19:12 cait yep, like this one
19:12 * cait points at it too
19:12 cait so we need a screen?
19:12 mle_ \o/
19:12 cait or a white wall
19:12 cait and we are good :)
19:12 mle_ i have a little screen
19:13 mle_ vintage
19:13 thd How much does it cost to rent a projector?
19:13 mle_ i have the kit to set up a question and answer session.
19:13 mle_ i have radio mikes etc
19:13 mle_ mic even
19:14 slef radio mike... used to work at my first workplace, Horizon FM
19:14 mle_ but i dont have the kit to do video streaming. : )
19:14 slef mle_: I think I might but it'll be horribly low-fi
19:14 thd I have seen VGA projectors on ebay for about $200 in years past.
19:15 slef the co-op's members have projectors... let me look at what this is because I think all the others are better than this one
19:15 slef not all members do
19:15 slef two of them do
19:15 slef and I've borrowed/stolen one
19:16 slef Epson EMP-760
19:16 slef is the one on my floor
19:16 thd slef: Low-fi could be better for bandwidth.
19:17 slef thd: indeed. Nothing is without postivies
19:17 slef That said, I tried watching a 10 year old BBC RealVideo last week. It could be a movie by Picasso for all you can tell.
19:18 slef actually more like 15 year old
19:18 thd I think the understandability of the audio is always much more important than the video.
19:19 rangi Ask rangi what?
19:19 * oleonard wonders if we'll reach bug number 8000 before 3.8
19:19 rangi Oh yeah
19:19 cait sponsoring people to attend I think
19:20 rangi @later tell paul_p bug 7975 please
19:20 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
19:20 cait and good morning rangi :)
19:20 rangi Oh
19:20 rangi We didn't do that though many asked
19:20 slef flat refusal, or suggestions, or what?
19:21 rangi Refusal, suggestions of who to ask
19:21 rangi Like UNESCO etc
19:21 slef don't ask for credit because the punch on the nose in reply may offend
19:22 rangi Pretty much
19:22 slef you wouldn't happen to have a copy of an email with suggestions around still, would you?
19:22 rangi I'll ask Russel
19:22 slef thanks 1000
19:22 cait 12 years in 12 minutes!
19:22 wahanui i think 12 years in 12 minutes is a must-have !!!
19:22 rangi We even had a page on the site
19:23 rangi It would be nice if the project had those kinda funds
19:23 rangi But we have to spend money on lawyers and crap instead
19:24 thd rangi: We had considered the possibility of using excess sponsorship funds for scholarships to attend, more likely rolled over to the next conference.
19:24 oleonard Who would sift through the essays on "why I should go to KohaCon?"
19:24 rangi I think really hard to be fair doing that
19:25 thd rangi: It would necessarily be unfair ;)
19:25 rangi I think if individuals did it
19:25 slef democratically unfair though
19:26 rangi Like equinox sponsored people to code4lib
19:26 rangi Might be easier
19:26 rangi Brb going to bus stop
19:29 thd slef: I like the notion of democracy disguising the inherent unfairness of anything :0
19:30 slef thd: that's how governments work!
19:32 thd Some scholarship system could be very good for diversity of participation.  Holding KohaCon in places outside the rich world is even better for diversity.
19:33 slef Need to encourage them to bid for KohaCon...
19:33 thd Hoever, outside the rich world can make the air travel expensive for anyone who would need to fly given the high prices charged to travel to places outside the rich world.
19:34 thd slef: Yes, we need to encourage them to bid and be prepared to do the necessary work to host the event.
19:35 magnus_afk anyone want an invite to ? i think i have 3 to give away - dm me your email adress
19:36 slef thd: do you know if India caused Africans any trouble with visas?
19:37 slef magnus_afk: why do I want to work on a site that's someone else's copyright?
19:37 * slef looks confused
19:37 slef that's twice in two days I've been invited to do that
19:37 thd slef: I do not know but Visa politics is always an obstacle to building a borderless community.
19:37 thd What is ?
19:39 rangi Back
19:40 slef thd: "a programming language chrestomathy - a collection of code snippets (or “nodes”) for people to translate into different programming languages or improve in the same language. Use it to learn a new programming language or improve ones you already know.
19:40 slef rangi: wb
19:41 magnus_afk slef: i'm not gonna force you - and it's a good question
19:41 * magnus_afk wanders off to watch Dexter
19:41 slef magnus_afk: I've been tricked into digital sharecropping too many times. Why are you doing it?
19:42 slef yaaaay! Radiohead!  biab
19:42 thd magnus_afk: What is the purpose of restricting things to members?
19:45 datadoctor does anybody have a funny Koha story?
19:46 rangi Funny in what way?
19:46 rangi I have tons
19:47 rangi But hard to type them out on the phone ask me again in 20 mins
19:47 datadoctor :^)
19:50 slef datadoctor: a frog, a kiwi and a rosbif walk into a bar...
19:50 oleonard I know a funny story about this one time a guy said his company would release their forked version of Koha, but then they didn't.
19:50 oleonard Oh wait that wasn't funny at all.
19:50 rangi LOL
19:50 cait lol
19:50 slef lolol
19:51 rangi The reason it exists at all is good
19:52 slef oleonard: is that the one about the guy that said his company would release their forked version of Koha, but then the company started trying to monopolise the name in Koha's homeland?
19:52 rangi "its just s big database, how hard could it be"
19:53 oleonard slef: Yeah, and where they tried to sow confusion in the marketplace by keeping the domain for their non-open, randomly-numbered version
19:53 * oleonard 's sides hurt from the laughing
19:53 wizzyrea oh and bought the .com and .net editions of the newly adopted community domain. That part was pretty funny too.
19:53 datadoctor 7>>chuckling<<
19:53 wizzyrea and the non hyphenated versions and...
19:54 datadoctor 7>>not chuckling<<
19:54 slef rangi: The three principal virtues of a programmer are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.
19:54 datadoctor And then there's the open-source programmer...
19:54 wizzyrea what actually *is* funny is that users of the fork, for the most part, find themselves much happier once they migrate to real koha
19:55 datadoctor Generous, nimble and gregarious.
19:55 datadoctor Only the REAL KOHA for me!
19:56 rangi You know the C4 story?
19:56 slef you know, I think the other version should be written KOHA. Killed Off Happy Associations.
19:58 wizzyrea slef: I was thinking of this little gem:
19:59 datadoctor I much prefer .orgs to .coms!
19:59 wizzyrea we all do ;)
20:00 slef and they use network solutions, the least ethical/clueful of the mainstream
20:00 wizzyrea and this little gem too:
20:00 oleonard And proof of their intent is in the fact that it doesn't redirect
20:01 datadoctor I signed up for the hockey team!
20:01 libsysguy 0_0
20:01 wizzyrea libsysguy?
20:01 wahanui libsysguy is Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
20:01 * wizzyrea nods
20:01 libsysguy hehe
20:01 wizzyrea hi :)
20:01 libsysguy i was just lurking
20:01 datadoctor Eek! they got the .NET as well. Yuck.
20:01 libsysguy hi :D
20:01 thd rangi: What is the C4 story?
20:01 datadoctor Looking to hang out on libsysguy's deck.
20:02 libsysguy heh
20:02 libsysguy are you Swedish datadoctor?
20:02 rangi Hockey team had them first
20:03 rangi Hlt used C2 ... New system we called C4 when writing it
20:03 wizzyrea oh, we need to buy and .net
20:03 datadoctor I'm pretending to be kiwi, reading Keri Hulme's Stonefish.
20:03 rangi Was either gonna be twice as good
20:03 rangi Or explode
20:03 rangi Bone people is good
20:03 datadoctor Good book.
20:03 rangi And she is my cousin
20:04 datadoctor :)
20:04 wizzyrea oh and this:
20:05 wizzyrea O.o
20:05 thd rangi: Was C2 the name of the software which HLT had been using?
20:05 rangi Yep
20:05 * wizzyrea imagines a calendar "the girls of Koha" or somesuch.
20:05 wizzyrea or the geeks of koha
20:05 wizzyrea or something.
20:05 wizzyrea scratch that.
20:06 datadoctor kerplunk
20:06 * wizzyrea giggles
20:06 libsysguy haha
20:06 libsysguy how many girls are there on koha
20:07 rangi Not many, lots of women tho
20:07 libsysguy i mean apparently im daft becuase I thought wizzyrea and talljoy were both guys at some point :p
20:07 * wizzyrea looks around
20:07 cait wizzyrea: not sure I wnat to imagine that
20:07 libsysguy *ducks*
20:08 cait libsysguy: and you thought kf and cait were 2 persons :P
20:08 cait yay, do I get 2 months?
20:08 libsysguy hehe
20:08 libsysguy yeah because cait comes out at night
20:08 rangi 2 original programmers 1 male 1 female
20:08 libsysguy and kf is only in the day
20:08 cait so cait is a vampire... perhaps
20:09 * cait checks for sharp fangs
20:09 rangi I was surrounded by women tho, my boss, the librarians etc
20:09 oleonard The glamorous life of a programmer eh rangi?
20:09 rangi Yeah
20:09 wizzyrea this is for cait:
20:09 libsysguy haha same here
20:09 rangi You get lots of cookies
20:10 * libsysguy never gets cookies
20:10 cait rangi: in other words lots of good influence :)
20:10 wizzyrea only beatings?
20:10 libsysguy the verbal abuse
20:10 libsysguy its so bad :'(
20:10 cait lol
20:10 * wizzyrea considers coming down and whipping those librarians into shape.
20:11 libsysguy libsysguy why does searching suck...libsysguy fines don't work
20:11 libsysguy libsysguy bore the curse of hourly loans
20:11 libsysguy :p
20:11 * oleonard leaves the gentle shelter of #koha and ventures out into the real world
20:11 * oleonard waves
20:11 cait bye oleonard :)
20:11 rangi Cya
20:11 libsysguy later oleonard
20:12 cait libsysguy: kohacon? :)
20:12 * cait offers to bring cookies and be a nice librarian
20:13 libsysguy I can't afford it this year cait :'(
20:13 cait :(
20:13 rangi Bbiab my stop
20:13 * libsysguy could actaully afford it but his Swedish girlfriend would kill me if I went without her
20:14 wizzyrea I bet her swedish family would pay for some of her plane ticket if you promised to visit sweden too >.>
20:14 libsysguy I could probably avoid going to my brothers wedding if i went too :p
20:15 libsysguy southern weddings are a drag
20:15 wizzyrea what, no moonshine?
20:15 libsysguy no alcohol of any kind
20:15 libsysguy :'(
20:16 datadoctor Line dancing?
20:16 * wizzyrea cringes
20:16 libsysguy god i hope not
20:16 libsysguy i'll walk out
20:16 * wizzyrea is glad to be in NORTHEAST kansas.
20:16 libsysguy i have to make it all the way to KANSAS to escape this place :'(
20:16 * talljoy is NOT a man
20:16 * talljoy is catching up on the logs
20:16 libsysguy oh well hello there talljoy :p
20:17 talljoy lol.  on phone
20:23 rangi back
20:31 JesseM joined #koha
20:32 Morthland11 joined #koha
20:32 Morthland11 How do I catalog multi-volume sets
20:40 kathryn joined #koha
20:41 Morthland11 ?
20:44 libsysguy left #koha
20:52 rangi magnuse++ #x 1000
20:52 rangi http://semantikoha.libriotech.[…]on/darwin_charles
20:52 cait magnuse++  :)
20:53 rangi magnus_afk: can i show that off at the nz koha users day?
20:55 Morthland11 How can I catalog a multi-volume set
20:55 wizzyrea holy wowie magnuse
20:56 thd_ joined #koha
20:56 cait he is awesome :)
20:56 JesseM left #koha
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21:09 thd_ joined #koha
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21:21 datadoctor Very interesting...semantikoha! Gotta go - have a great day all!
21:24 cait left #koha
21:30 * magnus_afk pokes his head in
21:30 magnus_afk rangi: sure, show it off all you want
21:30 rangi yay!
21:30 rangi thanks
21:30 Soupermanito joined #koha
21:31 magnus_afk but be warned that i'm working on it, so things might break temporarily
21:32 rangi sweet as
21:33 rangi its 18 may, so a little way away
21:33 magnus_afk ah, i'll have worked on it some more by then, i hope :-)
21:33 rangi :)
21:35 magnus_afk it's fascinating working on it - so many opportunities opening up
21:35 rangi *nod*
21:35 magnus_afk and marc fading into the background as the historical relict it is...
21:40 magnus_afk g'night #koha - have fun!
21:57 edveal left #koha
22:00 Morthland joined #koha
22:00 Morthland How do I catalog multi-volume sets?
22:08 thd Morthland: Are you asking specifically in Koha or in MARC 21 or Unimarc?
22:29 jcamins_away Argh! semantikoha is broken!
22:40 papa joined #koha
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23:25 BobB joined #koha
23:28 Judit joined #koha
23:28 Judit good morning
23:29 BobB good morning
23:30 rangi hi BobB and Judit
23:31 BobB hi rangi
23:57 YoungPublicLibrarian joined #koha
23:58 YoungPublicLibrarian Hello all!
23:58 rangi hi YoungPublicLibrarian
23:58 * jcamins gazes with horror at the blinddetail-biblio-search code.
23:59 YoungPublicLibrarian Anyone know why the test server won't show me "serials"? It tells me to enter a partial title or ISSN. Since I don't know what the ISSN is, I entered National Geographic. It came up with nothing at all...Do you think that the test server just doesn't have our magazines yet?
23:59 jcamins rangi! You wrote this code. You're just the person I need to talk to.

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