IRC log for #koha, 2011-12-18

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
01:25 Soupermanito left #koha
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07:00 cait joined #koha
07:00 cait good morning #koha
07:06 rangi hi cait
07:07 cait hi rangi :)
07:50 indradg joined #koha
08:37 mbalmer joined #koha
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09:07 indradg left #koha
09:13 mbalmer hello Koha world!
09:15 indradg joined #koha
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11:25 cait mbalmer: fixing indentation and whitespace makes your patches hard to read
11:25 cait perhaps try fixing those in separate patches
11:34 mbalmer cait, my editor removes trailing whitespace automatically, as you may see these affected lines don't change
11:34 mbalmer (visually, I mean)
11:40 cait yeah, but it's not good
11:40 cait people look at the patches to see what has been changed
11:40 cait it makes it hard for qa
11:41 cait[…]Coding_Guidelines
11:52 mbalmer bug and wiki page set up.
12:09 cait is now known as cait_afk
12:09 cait_afk only half around today
12:09 cait_afk the wiki page is a good thing
12:10 cait_afk time to do some reading
12:18 mbalmer some of the SQL used is really weird (to say the least), e.g.  'SELECT DATE(CURDATE())"  ...
13:27 indradg joined #koha
13:37 druthb joined #koha
13:37 druthb o/
13:37 cait_afk hi druthb :)
13:37 jcamins_away \o
13:38 cait_afk hi jcamins_away :)
13:38 jcamins_away cait_afk: not very far away from the keyboard!
13:38 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
13:38 druthb hi, cait_who_isn't_really_afk, and jcamins_who_isn't_really_away.
13:38 cait_afk hehe
13:38 cait_afk running around the apartment
13:39 cait_afk so sometimes afk
14:40 indradg left #koha
14:54 francharb joined #koha
14:54 druthb bonjour, francharb
14:54 francharb hi druthb
14:55 cait_afk hi francharb
14:55 cait_afk :)
14:55 francharb hi cait_afk
14:55 francharb working partners!! :)
14:55 cait_afk hm? :)
14:56 druthb imma cranking data for a go-live.  my new data-cranking script is working very nicely now.
14:56 francharb cait_afk, what do you do, right now?
14:56 francharb just chilling with koha crew?
14:56 francharb ;)
14:56 druthb she keeps me sane.  Hard job.
14:56 francharb hehe
14:56 cait_afk heh
14:56 cait_afk not that hard :)
14:57 cait_afk watching a documentation and trying to gather some motivation for bugs
14:57 cait_afk what are you doing here on a sunday francharb?
14:57 francharb a training to prepare
14:57 * druthb thinks it'd be awesome to have francharb for a trainer.  :)
14:57 francharb some koha testing for clients
14:58 cait_afk yep
14:58 francharb ;)
15:02 cait_afk what kind of library are you training tomorrow?
15:05 * druthb grumps...the script finished, but there is some sort of mapping goof---one lil tweak!
15:05 * druthb checks for other problems, before re-running that monster.
15:05 indradg joined #koha
15:08 francharb cait_afk, it's on wednesday and it's a public library and it's more a "question/answer day"
15:10 mbalmer re from a nice walk on the snow..
15:14 druthb @wunder 75076
15:14 huginn` druthb: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Denison/Sherman TX US, Pottsboro, Texas is 8.9�C (9:03 AM CST on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026.0 hPa.
15:15 druthb @wunder konstanz
15:15 huginn` druthb: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 1.0�C (4:00 PM CET on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 80%. Dew Point: -1.0�C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
15:16 druthb is now known as druthb_away
15:20 mbalmer is now known as mbalmer_oao
15:29 jcamins Mmm. Biscuits.
15:30 * jcamins waits impatiently for them to be finished.
15:37 druthb_away wahoo!
15:37 druthb_away my script worked!  got a buncha bibs all ready to load!
15:40 jcamins Hooray!
15:43 druthb_away loading bibs now...gonna go stir up some breakfast! :D
15:44 indradg @wunder kolkata
15:44 huginn` indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 16.0�C (8:50 PM IST on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
15:46 magnus_away is now known as magnuse
15:46 magnuse kia ora #koha
15:47 magnuse @wunder boo
15:47 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -1.0�C (4:20 PM CET on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: -5.0�C. Windchill: -7.0�C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
15:48 mbalmer_oao @wunder koha
15:48 huginn` mbalmer_oao: Error: No such location could be found.
15:49 jcamins The biscuits are delicious.
15:50 magnuse yay!
15:50 cait_afk heh
15:55 jcamins Biscuits with cheddar and oregano are definitely the best kind of Sunday breakfast.
15:57 francharb is now known as francharb_afk
15:58 magnuse sounds nice, jcamins
16:00 jcamins magnuse: it certainly is!
16:01 * magnuse is making
16:02 jcamins Portuguese dried and salted codfish?
16:02 druthb_away is now known as druthb
16:05 magnuse well, it's funny - in norway bacalao is the name of one dish
16:06 magnuse dried and salted cod cooked with onions, tomatoes, potatoes etc
16:06 cait_afk it looks yummy
16:06 druthb hi, magnuse! :D
16:06 magnuse and in the rest of the world it's the name of the fish...
16:06 magnuse hiya druthb
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16:13 jcamins Woohoo! AUAf Koha training is going to happen!
16:13 cait_afk huh?
16:14 jcamins cait_afk: the American University of Afghanistan's library staff is getting trained on Koha.
16:14 cait_afk oh!
16:15 jcamins A bit unfortunate that they don't use Koha, but at least they get a nice trip to India. :)
16:15 cait_afk now I am confused
16:16 jcamins cait_afk: they use a fork of Koha.
16:16 jcamins The staff is flying to India to learn how to use actual Koha.
16:17 cait_afk ok
16:17 cait_afk still confused, where did you see it?
16:17 magnuse yay
16:17 jcamins cait_afk: I'm friends with the librarian there.
16:17 jcamins cait_afk: there won't be any news of any sort.
16:17 indradg left #koha
16:20 cait_afk ok
16:26 indradg joined #koha
16:49 mbalmer_oao magnuse, also in portuguese it's the name of the dish
16:50 mbalmer_oao jcamins, why did they fork Koha?
16:51 jcamins mbalmer_oao: they didn't. They purchased a fork of Koha.
16:51 mbalmer_oao ah.  are there many such forks?
16:51 jcamins Back before it was a fork.
16:51 jcamins Just the one.
16:51 mbalmer_oao a the lime stuff?
16:51 jcamins Right.
16:52 cait_afk oao?
16:52 * cait_afk nick cait
16:52 cait_afk is now known as cait
16:52 mbalmer_oao off-and-on
16:52 bigbrovar joined #koha
16:52 cait ah
16:54 julian_m joined #koha
16:54 cait hi julian_m
16:54 julian_m hi cait ;)
16:55 magnuse hiya bigbrovar and julian_m
16:55 julian_m hello magnuse
17:04 bigbrovar left #koha
17:12 bigbrovar joined #koha
17:15 magnuse is now known as magnus_afk
17:17 indradg @wunder kolkata
17:17 huginn` indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 15.0�C (10:20 PM IST on December 18, 2011). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
17:22 DarkSun joined #koha
17:23 * magnus_afk wanders off to eat his bacalao...
17:24 cait enjoy :)
17:26 DarkSun left #koha
17:56 indradg left #koha
18:29 jcamins is now known as jcamins_away
18:58 francharb_afk left #koha
19:54 mbalmer_oao is now known as mbalmer
19:54 mbalmer re
20:00 mbalmer anyone still awake?
20:02 kathryn joined #koha
20:15 mbalmer are there any koha folks in paris?
21:00 cait left #koha
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21:43 mbalmer more postgresql news, and probably contoversy, tomorrow.
21:46 eythian postgres controversy?
21:46 eythian It's never seemed like a controversial project to me :)
21:47 mbalmer it will, maybe, soon be.  since I see only little sense in keeping MySQL compatability.
21:47 eythian Oh, with Koha. Yeah, postgres would be nice.
21:48 mbalmer yes.
21:48 eythian we've been planning on abstracting the SQL layer away a bit, or at least the schema. This would make it easier.
21:49 mbalmer it makes no sense to support two databases.  Koha should switch to PostgreSQL.  Which is clearly the better database.
21:49 mbalmer but that _is_ controversial.
21:49 mbalmer some folks will have different opinions.
21:51 eythian yes. I don't think that'll ever fly, unfortunately.
21:52 mbalmer oh, I think we will just fork.
21:53 mbalmer koha-pg or so.
21:54 eythian I sure hope you're joking :)
21:54 mbalmer I am not.
21:54 ibeardslee surely it'd be better to put effort into building a database abstraction layer?
21:54 eythian they already exist.
21:54 mbalmer MySQL is a no go for us.
21:55 eythian as it is, it's about 95% pg compatible.
21:55 eythian it is an only-go for many people.
21:55 mbalmer eythian, Koha as it is will _NOT_ run on PostgreSQL.
21:55 eythian yes, I know.
21:55 eythian but it almost can.
21:56 mbalmer to many stupid MYSQLisms.  some of them are easy to remove.
21:56 mbalmer like CURDATE() or CURRENT_DATE(), which can be written as "CAST(now() AS date)" which works on both DBs
21:58 mbalmer but then there are MySQL idioms being used that can not be rewritten portable.  So at the Perl level, different statements have to be used, depending on whether MySQl or PostgreSQL is being used.
21:59 eythian well, they'd be the first things to move to using DBIx::something.
21:59 mbalmer It makes no sense to support two databases…  But that is my opinion, and I will ditch MySQL in favour of PostgreSQL.
21:59 eythian it makes a lot of sense to support two.
21:59 eythian Some places can't/don't run mysql.
21:59 mbalmer absolutely not.
22:00 eythian err
22:00 eythian *pgsql
22:00 ibeardslee There is a lot of sense to be able to support more than two
22:00 mbalmer no.
22:01 eythian I'd be interested to see a performance comparison. I suspect that the MySQL query cache helps things a lot, and I don't think pgsql has an equivalent.
22:01 eythian although, memcache should take care of the worst of that anyway
22:01 mbalmer MySQL is a crap database.  Speed is not everything.
22:02 mbalmer but hey, let's not get into religion ;)
22:02 eythian speed is important however.
22:03 mbalmer I created a pgsql branch, and maybe one day folks can try it out, and it will then maybe lead to a fork.
22:03 eythian I don't like mysql, but I don't thing dropping support for it is at all a good idea for the project.
22:03 mbalmer that's the great advantage of opensource, right?
22:03 mbalmer eythian, if you don't like mysql, dropping it in favour or postgresql is the best thing you can do.
22:04 ibeardslee personally I think also one of the weaknesses
22:04 eythian sure, but it's a lot of work to maintain. I think the effort is best put into abstracting the SQL away to work with all sorts of databases.
22:04 mbalmer abstraction means only using the least common denominator.
22:05 eythian otherwise you end up having to reinvent the wheel, only this one is a slightly different colour.
22:05 mbalmer my branch ditches MySQL in favour of PostgreSQL.  I don't believe in database abstraction layers.
22:05 mbalmer I want to use the advanced features of PostgreSQL.
22:06 eythian you're going to spend a lot of time merging.
22:06 mbalmer yes, I know ;)
22:07 mbalmer until the Koha community at large realizes that there are better databaes than MySQL ;)
22:08 eythian it used to support pgsql, but there wasn't enough interest to keep it maintained.
22:10 mbalmer when I see stuff like locking whole tables and such, using non-standard SQL, I get the feeling that using the database was mor of a chore than of an art.
22:11 eythian where are there table locks? I hope we don't have those, but anything is possible.
22:11 mbalmer there are.
22:12 mbalmer and there are so many strange SQL uses, which are, well, strange ;)
22:12 eythian also keep in mind that the older code didn't really have quite as much of a review process as it does now. There have been people of varying skill levels contributing over the years.
22:13 mbalmer oh yes, I am totally aware of that.
22:13 eythian hopefully things are better in the newer stuff :)
22:13 magnus_afk is now known as magnus_away
22:13 mbalmer I would even say, much of the code is briliant when it comes to the "library" stuff, but less than poor when it comes to databases/SQL.
22:14 mbalmer the DB layer and SQL use is really inconsistend and, at least partly, horrible.
22:15 eythian yep, also there's HTML in the backend modules. Lots of things like that that need to be cleaned.
22:15 mbalmer and now I need to pull out and take a nap ;)  cul!
22:17 eythian later
22:20 mbalmer one last word:  when I see how random MySQL idioms are used, and wrongly so, I am totally convinced that MySQL was choosen for no real reason besides maybe speed advantages it once had over PostgreSQL.  But that has changed a lot and PostgreSQL is nowadays ways ahead of MySQL.
22:22 eythian pg is not universally faster (try running Drupal on it, for example.) Also, MySQL wasn't chosen so much as happened due to critical mass.
22:22 mbalmer left #koha

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