IRC log for #koha, 2011-09-07

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:03 lastnode hi all
00:03 lastnode we start using koha at my school today, as a pilot!
00:06 eythian awesome :)
00:06 rhcl cool beans
00:10 trea-away left #koha
00:11 lastnode this is the first time im running a vps
00:11 lastnode and i didnt realise so many people wanetd my box
00:11 Irma left #koha
00:14 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
00:15 lastnode /var/log is 4gig
00:15 lastnode lol
00:16 lastnode is that normal?
00:17 lastnode i dont run a mailserver. i dont need one.
00:17 lastnode Sep  7 05:45:21 li328-112 nullmailer[16175]: Sending failed:  Host not found
00:17 lastnode mail.err is full of stuff liek taht
00:17 eythian hmm, that's fishy
00:17 lastnode as is mail.warn
00:18 eythian does nullmailer have something telling you what it's trying to do?
00:18 lastnode no
00:18 lastnode it's possibly fail2ban though
00:18 eythian Also, I recommend running a real mailserver anyway, it's smarter and also will send you things like cron job messages when something goes wrong.
00:18 eythian it seems unlikely that fail2ban would cause that.
00:18 rangi it doesnt need to listen on anything other than localhost:25 too
00:18 lastnode because fail2ban tries to mail me stuff
00:19 eythian ahh
00:19 eythian I see then
00:19 rangi that way koha can send mail also
00:19 rangi which it does do
00:19 eythian turn the mailing off.
00:19 lastnode eythian: but certainly not every second like mail.err shows
00:19 lastnode so i just apt-get exim4?
00:19 rangi naw
00:19 lastnode i dont have a FQDN btw, only a hostname
00:19 rangi a real mailserver ;)
00:19 rangi postfix
00:20 lastnode linode seems to recommend exim4
00:20 lastnode for whatever reason
00:20 eythian it's the debian default, but I also prefer postfix
00:20 eythian mostly because I know it better.
00:21 lastnode i would prefer to simply not runa mailserver though, ill be watching koha logs etc.
00:21 lastnode is it essential?
00:21 lastnode i will run one when we deploy fully with asubdomain, i think
00:21 rangi how can koha send overdue notices, or warn people their reserves are ready etc
00:21 rangi without it
00:21 eythian Unix systems like having a mailserver. Lots of processes want to tell you things.
00:22 rangi it doesnt have to listen on an external ip
00:22 rangi ie you dont have to be able to send it stuff
00:22 lastnode ok
00:23 lastnode so ill need mutt to read root mail?
00:23 rangi not if you have a mailserver
00:23 rangi you could just do an alias
00:23 rangi in /etc/aliases
00:23 rangi root: your@email.address
00:25 lastnode can i safely remove mail.err and mail.warn?
00:25 lastnode they aer 1gig together
00:26 eythian yeah
00:26 lastnode i have nullmailer
00:26 lastnode installed, eythian. what's taht?
00:27 eythian that's a really basic MTA that I don't usually recommend using
00:27 rangi it just lets you relay through a smarthost
00:27 lastnode ok
00:27 lastnode im wondering if ive been exploited now
00:27 lastnode hrm
00:27 rangi
00:27 lastnode yeah i mean apt is saying it's gonna remove nullmailer
00:27 rangi most likely its bounces bouncing of bounces
00:28 lastnode inception
00:28 rangi yeah you dont want it and a real MTA
00:28 eythian that's normal, because nullmailer pretends to be a mailserver, so you can't have it and postfix installed at the same time.
00:28 lastnode ok getting postfix bc you guys are fans!
00:28 lastnode i set it up as local onloy, right?
00:28 lastnode *only
00:28 jcamins_away I tried to set up nullmailer because my server was only sending e-mail to one address, at my own domain.
00:29 rangi it needs a relay jcamins_away
00:29 eythian no, not local only
00:29 rangi (a smarthost)
00:29 eythian probably internet site, unless you have a preferred smarthost.
00:29 lastnode the setup asks for a FQDN though
00:29 lastnode which i dont have
00:30 lastnode[…]-debian-6-squeeze
00:30 eythian doesn't matter, just say localdomain or whatever
00:30 * eythian goes to lunch
00:30 lastnode so Internet Site or Internet with smarthost?
00:31 lastnode rangi: ^
00:31 jcamins_away rangi: yeah, I have a mail server, which according to the docs, is nullmailer's use case.
00:31 jcamins_away I ultimately concluded that I was better off just using Postfix, because it works.
00:31 jcamins_away (I'm sure nullmailer does work, for some people, of course... just commenting on how great Postfix is)
00:33 lastnode jcamins_away: i only want to use mail locally. do i select Internet Site or
00:33 lastnode Internet with smarthost
00:34 jcamins_away Probably Internet site- how else would hold messages get sent?
00:34 lastnode jcamins_away: i dont have a FQDN just yet though
00:34 lastnode just a hostname
00:36 jcamins_away Make it koha.yourdomain.
00:38 lastnode i dont have a domain jcamins_away
00:39 jcamins_away lastnode: call koha koha.localdomain.
00:40 lastnode got it
00:40 jcamins_away (make it literally "localdomain")
00:40 jcamins_away However, you're probably going to want a domain.
00:40 lastnode oh, i already set it up as koha.library
00:40 jcamins_away IP addresses are pretty unfriendly.
00:40 lastnode yes i will haev a subndomain eventually
00:40 jcamins_away That works.
00:42 lastnode jcamins_away: ive followee this guide[…]-debian-6-squeeze
00:43 lastnode how do i check root mail now? do i need to install mutt?
00:43 lastnode sendmail works
00:44 lastnode since ive set home_mailbox to = mail/
00:44 lastnode i assume ill need to mkdir mail inside /root
00:50 Brooke joined #koha
00:50 Brooke kia ora
00:50 lastnode hi Brooke
00:52 Brooke cait++
00:52 Brooke and
00:52 Brooke rangi++
00:52 Brooke for not knowing the meaning of later.
00:54 trea joined #koha
00:54 Brooke 0/
00:54 trea o/
00:56 Brooke :)
01:02 lastnode can someone help me with makingsure postfix only listens on
01:02 Brooke trea call in the cavalry bro
01:03 Brooke you have magical powers!
01:03 lastnode inet_interfaces = should do it right?
01:04 Brooke Example: host running one or more virtual mailers. For each Postfix instance, specify only one of the following.
01:04 Brooke inet_interfaces =         (virtual Postfix)
01:04 Brooke inet_interfaces = $myhostname localhost... (non-virtual Postfix)
01:04 Brooke Note: you need to stop and start Postfix after changing this parameter.
01:05 Brooke according to[…]ATION_README.html
01:05 Brooke so uh
01:05 Brooke here's hopin. :)
01:05 lastnode yeah i think im good. thanks Brooke!
01:05 Brooke <--- didn't do nuffin.
01:10 trea lolwut?
01:11 trea when you rebuild zebra's indexes, is it best practice to stop the running zebra process first?
01:12 * Brooke thinks that the geeks are in an undisclosed location drinking beer.
01:12 trea sweet
01:12 Brooke well, not when y'all have geek queries >:)
01:17 wizzyrea waddup
01:17 Brooke do you have any idea what time it is?
01:18 * Brooke crosses her arms.
01:18 Brooke I have been waiting out here in the dark, young lady.
01:18 wizzyrea time for the kid to be in bed?
01:18 wizzyrea past my bedtime?
01:18 rangi Brooke: i couldnt read it, it was purely selfish
01:18 trea hammertime?
01:18 wizzyrea STOP. Hammertime!
01:18 * Brooke does the typewriter.
01:19 * wizzyrea rather jerkily flails around like a drunken giraffe doing the hammertime dance
01:19 rangi trea: i dont usually bother
01:19 Brooke rangi: I really _was_ gonna do summat once I had some sleep in me XD
01:19 Brooke woke up this mornin
01:19 Brooke and it was like "The elves have been here!"
01:19 wizzyrea there were presents under your tree?!
01:19 Brooke yep, wiki presents.
01:19 wizzyrea oo
01:26 Brooke Would I be a bad person if I handed out buzzword bingo cards for my own preso?
01:29 rangi heh
01:29 miguel left #koha
01:29 * Brooke is sorely tempted...
01:32 Brooke who'dathunk broccoli would be so sechsy
01:32 Brooke[…]ctal_Broccoli.jpg
01:32 trea ooo
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01:39 Brooke 0/
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01:51 druthb o/
01:51 wizzyrea o\
01:51 * druthb squees
01:52 Brooke howdy
01:52 wahanui what's up, Brooke
01:53 trea \o/
01:54 druthb \o/
01:55 Emery joined #koha
01:55 Emery anybody help me?
01:55 Emery i have a zebra problem
01:55 Emery after upgrade it does not do any searching
01:56 Emery many people have tried to help but could not get it to work :(
01:56 Emery someone want a challange ;)
02:00 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6687] cannot move people in the holds queue <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6687>
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02:36 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 4530] Circulation & fines rules aren't always applied from most specific to less specific <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4530>
02:50 wizzyrea ooo that one's gonna take some srs testing
02:50 rangi yup
02:51 rangi and then some more with the hourly loans stuff too
02:51 wizzyrea yea, proably a good candidate to record some selenium tests
02:52 wizzyrea i mean if i'm gonna go through the trouble of walkig through holdability, might as well :P
02:53 rangi :)
03:02 Emery can anyone help in the next half hour?
03:03 Agent_Da1i is now known as Agent_Dani
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03:10 Brooke 0/
03:11 Emery can anyone help in the next half hour?
03:15 Brooke is it a Librarianish query?
03:15 Brooke like cataloguing or summat?
03:15 Emery no, installing, zebrasrv stuff
03:16 Brooke rats. I'm neigh useless there
03:16 Emery oh well
03:16 Emery =8(
03:18 Emery try again tommorow i geuss =8(
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03:21 eythian I feel a little bad really, but spent a while trying to work it out yesterday to no avail.
03:22 rangi yeah and me before, then liz and owen after
03:22 rangi i think for 500 books he should just stick with 3.2
03:22 rangi specially as there is no desire to learn at all
03:22 Brooke 500 books = card + stamper :D
03:22 Brooke but it's 500 now that's the problem. Those things multiply like rabbits.
03:23 Brooke can't he just export the records
03:23 Brooke install clean
03:23 Brooke and then reimport?
03:24 rangi you misunderestimate the amount he doesnt want to learn
03:24 Brooke ah, sorry mate.
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03:25 rangi[…]11-09-06#i_757330
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04:05 Brooke kamate au
04:06 * Brooke suspects that DCA can have their tower route on the little mister's snoring...
04:17 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 4831] Actual Price being ignored after receive <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4831>
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04:22 Brooke 0/
04:31 cait hi Brooke morning #koha
04:33 rangi hi cait
04:36 Oak joined #koha
04:37 Brooke hi Oak
04:37 Oak Hello Brooke :)
04:37 Brooke :)\
04:37 Oak hello #koha
04:37 Oak Guten Morgen cait
04:39 cait :)
04:39 cait I see some interesting patches on the list :)
04:39 cait one for 4831 - yay :)
04:40 cait rangi: do you know if bug 4530 will conflict with hte patches to bring allowonshelfholds to circ matrix?
04:40 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4530 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , Circulation & fines rules aren't always applied from most specific to less specific
04:43 rangi gah my kyboard is brokn
04:43 rangi missing a lttr can you guss which on
04:44 eythian É™?
04:44 rangi :)
04:44 Brooke can I buy a vowel?
04:44 rangi i think ill call it a day
04:44 * Brooke s w key sticks like a bastage.
04:44 rangi and gt an nw kyboard tomorrow
04:44 Brooke ciao bello
04:45 cait :)
04:45 cait bye rangi
04:47 Oak see ya rangi.
04:50 Brooke right sleepy time for tossers.
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05:06 rangi back from the bus
05:07 rangi this driver thinks he is in a race
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05:39 eythian when cataloguing in Koha, does it automatically populate the 001 control field?
05:40 eythian (I'm seeing a number of records that have 020$a, 245$a, 999$c and $d, and nothing else. It's odd.)
05:41 cait no
05:41 cait it doesn't
05:42 cait I think it's only populated if you download the file from somewhere
05:42 eythian ah, my import will always create an 024$a, so I can tell that it's not my data, so not my problem :)
05:42 cait and then 004 shows where the number comes from
05:42 eythian (and unlikely to cause issues with what I'm doing)
05:42 eythian ah right
05:43 cait since controlnumber is used for linking records some people have asked for a plugin
05:43 eythian I autogenerated one on importing the records, as it needed one to hook up analytics, and it was coming from a not-very-MARC-supporting system.
05:43 cait yep, standard says to use control number for linking
05:44 eythian yeah. Now I'm just working on having a script edit the headers so that if they are linked up, they have the right types set.
05:44 eythian So that Koha will actually show the links at all.
05:45 * cait nods
05:45 cait you can blame me for that
05:45 eythian for which?
05:46 cait for the analytics link and checks for the headers
05:47 eythian ah yeah. I assume they are to the standard, because they seem pretty strange to me.
05:48 cait yes, i tried to keep as close to the standard as possible
05:48 eythian OK. Most of the MARC standard is pretty strange to me.
05:48 cait I was not sure if anyone else will want to use this
05:49 cait we have not only analytics, but also set records for multi-volume things
05:49 cait makes it even stranger :)
05:49 eythian this library wants to use it to catalogue songbooks, and files of newspaper clippings, and such.
05:49 cait I thin it will work
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05:50 cait a little more support by plugins in cataloging woul dbe nice
05:50 eythian it will. I told them how to set it up by hand, and that's fine. It's just too many records to manually change the headers, so I'm automating that step.
05:50 cait our libraries use the union catalog software for cataloging, so I have not dealt with that part
05:50 cait a plugin to search for anothr record to link with like searching for an authority would be nice
05:50 eythian that'd be good, yeah
05:51 cait and a plugin to populate the 001
05:51 eythian that too
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06:12 cait dentist :( cya
06:12 cait left #koha
06:12 alex_a hello
06:19 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6851] A utility that will search out analytics records and set the MARC header appropriately. <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6851>
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06:37 reiveune hello
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06:48 hdl hi all
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06:56 francharb h
06:56 francharb hi
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07:03 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6680] Cart download choices not understandable to patrons <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6680>
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07:18 kf hi #koha
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07:26 kf morning paul_p
07:29 paul_p good morning Europe
07:29 paul_p (good afternoon Oceania)
07:44 lastnode after adding an item
07:44 lastnode on a biblio
07:44 lastnode how do i get it t show up
07:44 lastnode koha-rebuild-zebra?
07:47 lastnode paul_p: kf?
07:47 wahanui i heard kf was cait or really, really sweet. or <reply>she gives me memory loss
07:47 paul_p lastnode (hello)
07:48 lastnode hi paul_p
07:48 paul_p yes, after adding item/biblio, -z is your friend
07:49 lastnode paul_p: using debian packages so koha-rebuild-zebra i guess?
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07:49 lastnode paul_p: i cant even findteh biblio from inside the e staff client
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07:50 paul_p lastnode, I don't use debian package, so I don't know (we have developed our tools a long time ago, and still using them)
07:54 kf lastnode: you can't search for the record?
07:54 kf lastnode: can you search for other records?
07:54 lastnode kf: no
07:54 lastnode if i go directly to /cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/ i can see it
07:54 kf no to both?
07:55 lastnode kf: this si the first record
07:55 kf ah ok
07:55 kf I am not sure how to setup the indexing cronjobs with the packages
07:55 lastnode kf: i just ran koha-zebra-start
07:55 kf ok
07:55 lastnode koha-zebra-rebuild etc
07:55 kf that sounds about right
07:55 lastnode and it didnt give me any error logs
07:56 kf zebrasrv needs to be running to make search work
07:56 kf and indexing is needed to of course
07:56 kf and you can still not search?
07:56 lastnode kf how can se eif zebraserv is running
07:56 kf I found this on the wiki:[…]ges#Zebra-related
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08:17 rangi lastnode: look in /etc/cron.d
08:18 rangi there should be a file koha-common
08:18 rangi in there is the command to rebuild the indexes
08:20 rangi you can check your instance is enabled by runing
08:20 rangi sudo koha-list --enabled
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08:30 kf is now known as kf_mtg
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08:41 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5473] 952 fields should be filled in by Acquisitions <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5473>
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09:05 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 6750 Guarantor search broken on translated templates <[…]74d296566a021d217> / Bug 6256: Many bib1 attributes missing <[…]00bd345d9fcead717>
09:07 jenkins_koha Starting build 405 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #385 19 j ago)
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09:41 lastnode .thanks rangi
09:41 lastnode thanks rangi
09:41 lastnode for some reason zeba ewasnt enable dby default
09:41 kf_mtg is now known as kf
09:43 lastnode *zebra wasnt enabled by default, said lastnode, untangling himself
09:48 miguel left #koha
09:52 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #405: STILL UNSTABLE in 45 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/405/
09:52 jenkins_koha * ian.walls: Bug 6256: Many bib1 attributes missing
09:52 jenkins_koha * f.demians: Bug 6750 Guarantor search broken on translated templates
09:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6256 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , Many bib1 attributes missing
09:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6750 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, frederic, NEW , Guarantor search broken on translated templates
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11:27 Brooke 0/
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12:11 hdl hi
12:11 paul_p Very quiet channel today...
12:14 kf yes
12:16 nengard morning
12:16 * jwagner likes peace and quiet....
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12:22 oleonard Hi #koha
12:25 kf hi oleonard
12:32 lastnode anyone know anything about koha frontend templates?
12:32 lastnode html/css etc
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12:33 lastnode oh right, i see the settings in System Prf
12:33 lastnode nvm
12:35 kf lastnode: owens blog is a good source for customizing the templates
12:35 kf owen's blog?
12:35 wahanui well, owen's blog is a good starting point
12:35 kf hm.
12:35 kf opac customization?
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12:36 kf owen's blog is
12:36 kf owen's blog?
12:36 wahanui i heard owen's blog was a good starting point
12:36 kf forget owen's blog
12:36 wahanui kf: I forgot owen's blog
12:36 kf owen's blog is
12:37 kf wahanui: oleonard's blog is
12:37 wahanui OK, kf.
12:37 oleonard oleonard's much-neglected blog.
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12:42 kf it's a very nice neglected blog :)
12:42 lastnode kf: we started adding books to our koha install today
12:44 kf yay
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13:02 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5916] Don't show the link to edit authorities to people who don't have permissions to edit <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5916>
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13:09 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
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13:15 rhcl wahaui: meeting time?
13:15 rhcl wahanui: meeting time?
13:15 wahanui i don't know, rhcl
13:15 rhcl stupid bot
13:15 rhcl wahanui: topic?
13:15 wahanui it has been said that topic is wrong. :)
13:15 rhcl stupid bot
13:16 lastnode oh
13:16 lastnode is anyone allowed for the meeting?
13:16 rhcl yes, but a preregistration free of $5 US needs to be paypal'ed to me
13:16 oleonard Yes, lastnode
13:16 wahanui i guess lastnode is an english teacher from sri lanka
13:16 lastnode rhcl: paypal address?
13:16 lastnode and do you accept bitcoin?
13:17 rhcl
13:17 rhcl is bitcoin still in business?
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13:20 lastnode has the US national debt been resolved?
13:20 lastnode anyway brb a few hours, hopefully ill stay awake for teh meeting :)
13:20 lastnode how long do tehy usually go on for?
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13:21 rhcl less than an hour, but this is a nominations meeting so I don't really know about it
13:21 rhcl I'm not even sure what they're nominating for, but my vote is for sale anyway
13:23 oleonard You're feeling cheeky this morning rhcl
13:23 rhcl ain't I though?
13:23 rhcl I just put a pot of coffee on to brew...I'll settle down in a while
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14:04 rhcl federated search on both Koha and DSpace. Interesting
14:05 trea WWRMD?
14:06 kf what would... do?
14:06 trea roy merritt
14:06 rhcl So conceptually, you might search on Koha, get results from both db's, and links to DSpace would either pull up the document if stand alone, or open DSpace for the viewer
14:06 kf hm
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14:08 rhcl searching on DSpace would probably require opening the OPAC view in a browser
14:09 jcamins_away Maybe the federated search thingy could do it?
14:09 jcamins_away I forget what it's called, but Koha has a built-in federated search plugin.
14:09 jcamins_away I have no idea if it works- I've never heard of anyone using it.
14:10 sekjal jcamins_away:  pazpar2
14:10 wizzyrea ^^
14:10 jcamins_away That's it.
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14:26 Agent_Dani \o
14:28 trea o/
14:31 fcapo hello, is it possible to port a .po translation file from version 3.2 to 3.4, or do I need to start from a new file?
14:33 kf no, the files can be updated
14:33 kf fcapo: try sending a mail to the translation list
14:35 * oleonard hadn't noticed nengard redesigned her site...
14:38 jcamins_away Huh. So she has.
14:39 hdl sekjal: pazpar2 is tester
14:39 kf left #koha
14:40 fcapo Another translation question : the fr-CA language for 3.4 just got created on , but its translations are way out of date. Can I base the fr-CA translation off of the existing fr-FR translation?
14:43 nengard huh?
14:43 nengard since when?
14:43 nengard it's been that way for at least a year now ....
14:43 jcamins_away nengard: the last time I looked at your site was probably around when I first met you.
14:44 nengard got it :)
14:44 nengard i guess you all saw my rant
14:44 nengard :)
14:44 nengard woke up annoyed
14:44 fredericd fcapo: fr-CA 3.4 is based on last .po files from 3.2 git version
14:45 * Agent_Dani finds that to be her usual state at oh-dark-thirty. :)
14:45 fredericd Do you have other .po files for 3.2?
14:45 oleonard nengard: I usually read your posts in RSS, so I missed it!
14:46 nengard i totally understand
14:46 nengard i'm the same :)
14:46 oleonard ebooks have so many rant-worthy attributes.
14:46 jcamins_away Yup.
14:48 fcapo We had our own 3.2 fr-CA translation, but our file has a lot of new string that can't apply for a clean 3.4 Koha.
14:49 * jcamins_away doesn't actually know what most of the websites he reads regularly look like.
14:51 fredericd fcapo: From 3.2 to 3.4, the switch to Template Toolkit implies that a LOT of string that were translated have to be retranslated... So in any case, even if we try to base 3.4 .po file on you 3.2 fr-CA translation, I'm sure we will reach almost the same (poor) result
14:54 * Agent_Dani realizes she has a meeting scheduled until 17:00 today...
14:54 fcapo fredericd: Ok, that's what I thought...
14:55 Agent_Dani Which is doubly fun - I got in at 06:45 today and I have a class at 19:30 so it will be too late for me to go home for a while before class. :-\
14:58 slef yikes, meetings have just stolen my Thursday
14:59 miguel left #koha
15:00 fcapo fredericd: Our clients want a fully translated fr Koha, but with some terms changed for the french-canadian context. They also now want to share those changes with the community. Any ideas on how we could do that without causing a duplication of efforts?
15:04 trea can someone explain what and  accountlines.timestamp are recording, and the difference between the two?
15:08 zipporah joined #koha
15:08 julian left #koha
15:09 fredericd fcapo: We can base fr-CA on fr-FR 3.4 current .po files. You will get a fully translated OPAC interface and preferences. It remains an important work on staff interface
15:09 miguel joined #koha
15:09 cait joined #koha
15:10 zipporah Friends, can you help me with an SQL code that can help to reverse "Ordered" indicator on hundreds of books to allow for available status. The was a mistake when manually catoging them.
15:10 fredericd Then you work on fr-CA OPAC language tweaking and you translate staff. As soon as you finished staff translation I base fr-FR staff on you version and we tweak it for French librarians...
15:11 wizzyrea zipporah: have you investigated the batch modification
15:11 wizzyrea More -> Tools
15:11 fredericd The question is : will you translate all staff interface and how long will it take?
15:11 wizzyrea well, that would be on 3.4
15:11 zipporah We have just installed Koha 3.2 livecd.
15:13 zipporah Have I put the question straight?
15:13 cait wizzyrea: batch is 3.2
15:13 wizzyrea cool
15:13 cait :)
15:14 zipporah left #koha
15:14 cait fredericd: do you have a min?
15:14 zipporah joined #koha
15:14 fredericd cait: yes
15:17 zipporah frederic, would you be a good SQL or MySQL programmer to help me with an SQL code to change the "ordered" status to "available" on a lot of books instead of looking for them manually?
15:17 zipporah We are using Koha 3.2 from livecd.
15:19 zipporah I wonder if I have put my question clear!
15:19 wizzyrea zipporah: have you looked at the batch item processing at all?
15:19 wizzyrea under more -> tools
15:20 miguel left #koha
15:20 fcapo fredericd: Our plan is to switch our clients directly to version 3.6 when it is ready, so can't we just contribute on fr-FR while waiting for the string freeze, then base fr-CA on fr-FR around the 3.6.0 release? The fr-CA specific modifications would stay on fr-CA.
15:21 zipporah I am very new to Koha. I will look at it and I will let you know of my progress on that. Regards.
15:21 wizzyrea good luck :)
15:22 cait zipporah: the problem is you can't do it easily with sql only in 3.2
15:23 cait zipporah: you woul dhave to run a script too - batch edit will take care of everything
15:26 reiveune bye
15:26 libsysguy joined #koha
15:26 reiveune left #koha
15:27 libsysguy jcamins weren't you telling me something about refworks and a z39.50 server
15:27 libsysguy and if they would allow us to set it up we should use that instead of RIS
15:28 jcamins_away libsysguy: yeah, RefWorks might be able to use a Z39.50 server.
15:28 libsysguy yeah they keep trying to connect but keep failing
15:28 wizzyrea from what I can tell, is the date the fine or payment is made, without the timestamp. The timestamp is the actual time.
15:28 jcamins_away I don't know anything about how it works.
15:28 libsysguy and I think my config might be wrong
15:28 jcamins_away libsysguy: did you confirm that you can connect to the Z39.50 server from outside the firewall?
15:29 libsysguy well that is what they were trying to do
15:29 libsysguy i know that i have the right ports opened on the firewall
15:29 matts is now known as matts_away
15:30 miguel joined #koha
15:30 libsysguy is there any documentation on how to set up the z39.50 search server for outside access?
15:31 nancyk joined #koha
15:31 zipporah Thanks very much. I have seen how it works and we shall just do it right away. Bye for now.
15:31 jcamins_away Hm. I don't know anything about setting up Z39.50 servers.
15:31 jcamins_away I don't know, actually.
15:31 jcamins_away Search the wiki?
15:32 wizzyrea libsysguy I think it's in the manual
15:33 zipporah left #koha
15:33 libsysguy it says how to set up targets
15:33 libsysguy but I don't see anything on being a target
15:33 sekjal libsysguy:  it should be in the manual, yes.  if not, you just need to uncomment the 'publicserver' configs in koha-conf.xml, and restart Zebra
15:34 wizzyrea yea, i'm SURE I saw it in the manual
15:35 libsysguy ok ill keep looking
15:35 libsysguy but i think i found out what i was doing wring int he conf file
15:35 libsysguy is now known as libsysguy_afk
15:35 nancyk left #koha
15:35 sekjal http://manual.koha-community.o[…]en/systemfaq.html
15:35 wizzyrea http://manual.koha-community.o[…]tml#publicztarget
15:36 * wizzyrea happened to be poking around in that section just yesterday
15:40 melia joined #koha
15:45 lds left #koha
15:48 libsysguy_afk is now known as libsysguy
15:49 lastnode meetng in 2 hours?
15:49 wizzyrea *nod*
15:52 wizzyrea cait - about?
15:53 wizzyrea i require your sql brilliance :)
15:53 wizzyrea well "require..." your cleverness would be appreciated ^.^ with cookies.
15:54 hdl left #koha
15:56 fcapo fredericd: To answer your fr-CA question : If fr-CA can be based on the 3.6.0 fr-FR, we will do what we can to translate what's left to translate in the staff interface. I can't really give a schedule, but we will need a working fr-CA for the end of november.
15:56 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6836] jQuery plugin Datatables integration <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6836> / [Bug 6838] Filtering and pagination in subscriptions table <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6838>
15:57 fcapo fredericd: Then, you're free to rebase fr-FR off of fr-CA anytime.
15:59 fredericd fcapo: To be sure not to do a mistake: you ask me to base 3.4 fr-CA .po files on their fr-FR current counterpart? and load them on Pootle?
16:00 fcapo fredericd: Not now. I said we would base it on 3.6, since our clients will go with the 3.6 version
16:00 fredericd And for 3.4?
16:01 fcapo I guess fr-CA 3.4 will stay unchanged
16:01 nengard bug 6488 can anyone think of a reason that the hidden items should show on the search results and not the bib detail?
16:01 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6488 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , opachiddenitems not working in master
16:01 nengard i don't want to make a decision alone
16:01 nengard i think if it's hidden it should be hidden
16:02 wizzyrea ^^
16:02 wizzyrea what's the point of hiding it if it's not hidden
16:02 cait wizzyrea: here now, but have to be careful to not burn my dinner
16:02 oleonard Agreed.
16:02 wizzyrea ooo no, dinner is important
16:02 slef I think it should be hidden on all OPAC searches, not on intranet
16:03 wizzyrea I can ask you after you eat :)
16:03 sekjal yes, if it's hidden in the OPAC, that should be on search results, details, Lists, etc.
16:03 sekjal consistency
16:03 wizzyrea make it so, nengard ;)
16:03 cait nengard: I agree - should be hidden everywhere or it will only be confusing :)
16:03 cait wizzyrea: it's ok
16:03 cait it will take alittle longer - tell me about your problem :)
16:04 nengard k
16:04 * wizzyrea settles down on the psychiatrists couch
16:04 nengard bug updated
16:04 nengard thanks
16:04 wizzyrea so NEKLS has some libraries that want to do Unique management. They want to send people to collections
16:05 cait hehe
16:05 wizzyrea based on their fines
16:05 cait unique management?
16:05 wizzyrea there are a few requirements, some of which I've figured out
16:05 wizzyrea it's the company that does the chasing down of delinquent patrons
16:05 cait ah ok
16:06 cait so you need a list of borrowers and fines that meet some special requirements?
16:06 wizzyrea exactly
16:06 wizzyrea fine total over $25 (I think I figured this out)
16:06 wizzyrea no payments in last 60 days (possibly figured this one out)
16:06 wizzyrea but I've got them in separate reports
16:07 wizzyrea and it would be nice to mash them together
16:08 cait ok
16:08 cait pastebin? :)
16:08 slef wizzyrea: Is this SQL?  Ugly way: put "AND borrowerid IN (SELECT borrowerid [your fine total query])" into the WHERE of your no payments SELECT.
16:08 wizzyrea yes, that would be best
16:08 slef just OTTOMH, not tested, not sure if mysql has odd syntax for that sort of thing
16:09 wizzyrea slef: I will try that!
16:09 wizzyrea cait, one moment
16:09 cait it's along what I would have suggested :)
16:09 wizzyrea oooo
16:09 wizzyrea nice
16:09 wizzyrea ok, one sec
16:09 cait I like sub queries... slef: why ugly?
16:09 wizzyrea let me see if I can mash these together
16:09 wizzyrea I will paste them back in a sec
16:09 cait ok
16:10 slef be careful with how many subqueries you do and what they are, else it will eat your database server's CPU for breakfast and wash it down with disk space
16:10 cait hm yum
16:10 cait i did a course on sql a while back and was told subqueries can be faster than joins, depending on what you do
16:10 slef it's cait's fault, talking about dinner. Now I'm hungry.
16:10 cait would you agree with that?
16:10 fcapo fredericd: So, will it be possible to base the 3.6 fr-CA on the 3.6 fr-FR when Koha 3.6.0 arrives?
16:11 cait it's always my fault *sniff*
16:11 slef yes, as usually you only put a few columns in subqueries
16:11 fredericd fcapo: yes, no problem
16:11 cait most of the time I use the pk
16:11 cait like borrowernumber in /not in
16:11 cait should learnmore about what makes mysql happy sometime
16:12 fcapo fredericd: Ok, thanks a lot for your help.
16:12 rhcl ah, thanks, another interview question
16:12 cait rhcl?
16:12 wahanui rhcl is gonna beat up on an ibot, if it's not careful.
16:12 miguel left #koha
16:13 rhcl I'm preparing to do interviews for a new tech assistant and I'm building a new question list.
16:16 pastebot "wizzyrea" at pasted "something like this?" (1 line) at
16:17 cait ah, and what is the question? :)
16:17 wizzyrea selecting borrowers with no payments in 60 days, and more tna $25 in fines
16:17 wizzyrea s/tna/than
16:18 cait I meant rhcl interview question :)
16:18 nengard is now known as nengard_lunch
16:18 rhcl "Tell me what you know about SQL."   This is a beginning tech position, I won't ask them to actually construct a series of nested joins.
16:18 cait ah :)
16:18 jwagner wizzyrea, see bug 3490 -- we wrote and released scripts for billing notice and debt collect to work with Unique Management
16:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3490 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, jwagner, ASSIGNED , Billing Notice/Debt Collect
16:18 cait wizzyrea: have you tested it?
16:19 wizzyrea it's running now
16:20 wizzyrea 404 on the link *shrug*
16:20 wizzyrea on the github link. Oh well.
16:20 wizzyrea but ty, I know of several other places that have done it, but their workflows are different from what we want
16:21 wizzyrea basically taking their work and adapting it
16:21 wizzyrea which is where what I just pasted came from
16:22 miguel joined #koha
16:24 cait wizzyrea: does it work?
16:24 wizzyrea it's still running, so I
16:24 wizzyrea am not sure
16:24 wizzyrea yet
16:24 cait ah
16:24 wizzyrea good thing I have a replica :P
16:24 cait found noone in my database - but that's not surprising :)
16:24 cait hm
16:24 fcapo left #koha
16:24 cait I was thinking
16:24 cait perhaps yo need another time limit
16:24 cait what if they accrued the 25$ yesterday
16:25 wizzyrea hmm
16:25 wizzyrea good pt
16:25 cait would be not nice to give their data to that unique managmeent thing :)
16:25 wizzyrea extremely.
16:25 wizzyrea extremely very not good
16:25 wizzyrea :)
16:26 paul_p left #koha
16:26 wizzyrea cait, reminder: your dinner!
16:26 wizzyrea don't burn it :P
16:26 wizzyrea :)
16:27 cait hehe
16:27 cait thx
16:27 cait eating right now
16:28 oleonard Mmm... Eating.
16:30 cait my next victim to be made hungry arrived...
16:31 wizzyrea hmm. that report never finished I must have sent it into the void.
16:31 * wizzyrea goes back to the drawing board.
16:31 lastnode can someone link me to past logs of meetings?
16:32 * lastnode ponders staying up
16:32 lastnode it's already 10pm :(
16:33 trea can you use multiple OR statements in your WHERE clause?
16:34 trea ie, WHERE (foo = 'bar' OR 'bat' OR 'blah')
16:36 oleonard WHERE (foo = 'bar' OR foo = 'bat' OR foo = 'blah')
16:36 trea in that case would you be better off using an IN function?
16:36 cait lol, now my dinner ended up on bugzilla - bug 6488
16:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6488 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , opachiddenitems not working in master
16:37 oleonard trea: I suppose it depends on whether it's more efficient in the code and/or in performance.
16:38 libsysguy ok so i was trying to hide the no cover image available icon with some javascript
16:38 libsysguy and i am failing fantastically
16:38 libsysguy i don't see where it gets assigned in CSS so am I just missing it somewhere
16:39 cait lastnode: they are all on the wiki - search for irc meetings
16:39 cait lastnode: there is also an agenda for tonight's meeting
16:40 cait wizzyrea: I have only very minimal data in this database
16:40 cait wizzyrea: makes it a little hard to figure it out for you right now  :(
16:40 oleonard libsysguy: The no cover image markup is generated by javascript
16:41 cait lastnode:[…]_7_September_2011
16:42 jcamins_away nengard_lunch: errr... the Koha RSS feed appears to have flipped out.
16:42 oleonard libsysguy: You could hide it with CSS: { display: none; }
16:45 nengard_lunch jcamns i know
16:45 jcamins_away nengard_lunch: okay, good.
16:45 nengard_lunch slef told me
16:45 nengard_lunch i can't figure out how to fix it though
16:46 nengard_lunch if you know pipes, it's the part that's removing the images that's broken
16:46 nengard_lunch the source is published you should be able to see it
16:46 jcamins_away I don't know anything about Yahoo Pipes.
16:46 nengard_lunch k - anyone here who knows something - help woudl be appreciated
16:46 jcamins_away But once I marked everything old as read, it seemed to be happy again.
16:46 nengard_lunch someone helped me put that image bit in .. i don't remember who :)
16:47 nengard_lunch is now known as nengard
16:50 trea is now known as trea-away
16:58 fcapo joined #koha
17:00 wizzyrea cait: it's all good
17:00 wizzyrea ty for thinking on it
17:00 wizzyrea I will post it in the report wiki if/when I get it figured out
17:04 nengard wizzyrea are you the one who helped me with my yahoo pipe? removing images?
17:06 wizzyrea I don't recall that :/
17:06 wizzyrea but I did find this
17:06 wizzyrea
17:07 wizzyrea did we change the font size on the receipts?
17:07 wizzyrea lately?
17:07 cait I am not aware of it
17:08 wizzyrea apparently "all of a sudden" the text on the receipts here is "too small"
17:09 sekjal wizzyrea:  yes, font size changed on receipts
17:09 sekjal print.css changed from 14px to 12px, I believe
17:09 wizzyrea humbug, ok ty
17:10 wizzyrea now how to make it big again.
17:11 sekjal wizzyrea:  tricky, since that page does not include intranetusercss (as far as I recall)
17:11 nengard hmmm
17:11 nengard it appears to be working:
17:11 nengard are we supposed to be meeting?
17:11 wizzyrea *nod*
17:12 cait in another hour
17:12 cait or 49 minutes
17:12 wizzyrea sekjal: yea, does it include intranetuserjs?
17:12 wizzyrea nm, I can look
17:12 cait if not perhaps we should make it
17:13 wizzyrea oh there was someone complaining about including a <script> tag on the receipts
17:13 sekjal change was made as part of bug 6291
17:13 wahanui sekjal: that doesn't look right
17:13 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6291 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Cart printing truncated in Firefox
17:13 wahanui left #koha
17:13 wahanui joined #koha
17:13 slef well done nengard :) I'll hide
17:14 sekjal wizzyrea:  no, the CSS and JS sysprefs are both left out of the receipt templates
17:15 wizzyrea *nod* for speed, probably
17:15 sekjal the only way to change the font back to 14px is to alter print.css or the template page
17:15 wizzyrea so how about that receipts rewrite >.>
17:15 wizzyrea I tease :)
17:16 wizzyrea actually I happen to know it's in funding talks
17:16 wizzyrea only a small amount left to raise iirc
17:16 Colin714 joined #koha
17:17 sekjal wizzyrea: you speak true
17:17 nengard the images are showing a bit ... hope that doesn't break things
17:17 nengard in the pipe
17:18 Brooke joined #koha
17:18 Brooke kia ora
17:20 Colin714 left #koha
17:20 cait hi Brooke
17:20 Brooke :)
17:22 jcamins_away Was there supposed to be a meeting 20 minutes ago?
17:23 cait hm
17:23 cait I think in 40
17:23 cait but my timezone calculations are not always correct
17:23 jcamins_away Ah.
17:23 cait 18 utc
17:23 ColinC joined #koha
17:23 cait hi ColinC
17:25 ColinC Hi
17:25 Kmkale joined #koha
17:26 cait getting full here :)
17:30 * lastnode is still up
17:33 cait lastnode: how late is it for you?
17:33 lastnode 11pm atm
17:33 cait oh
17:33 lastnode that's late bc i wake up at 5am
17:34 lastnode to prep for class etc.
17:34 cait makes sense
17:34 cait we shift the meetings around by 8 hours
17:34 cait so this is probably the worse time for you
17:35 cait worst
17:35 lastnode yeah np, i dont think ill have much to add
17:35 lastnode or contribute. just happpened to be up so thought id hang around
17:37 cait first time can be a bit confusing, prepare to read fast :)
17:38 lastnode cait: ive sat in on foss meetings before (wordpress, ubuntu), so i kinda know the format.
17:38 * lastnode is prepared to read fast
17:38 cait :)
17:38 talljoy is now known as talljoy_lunch
17:42 daniel_g joined #koha
17:43 daniel_g howdy
17:43 lastnode why did the librarian cross teh road?
17:44 cait hi daniel :)
17:44 daniel_g hi!
17:44 daniel_g to check out what was on the other side?
17:44 cait how are you?
17:44 daniel_g i'm good, thanks! busy, but good. how are you??
17:44 cait same here - busy but good
17:45 schuster joined #koha
17:45 daniel_g i think this might be the first irc meeting i've attended in realtime
17:45 daniel_g hi schuster!
17:45 schuster Hey all...  I might drop out and come back in on another chat client.
17:46 schuster left #koha
17:46 schuster joined #koha
17:46 schuster Ah better.
17:47 * Brooke imagines the demand for coffee in eNZed is even higher than average today.
17:48 miguel left #koha
17:49 * jcamins_away offers his apologies for missing the meeting- he has to get on the subway now, and won't be getting off the subway for another hour or so.
17:49 libsysguy aww no jcamins
17:50 lastnode jcamins_away: hi! didnt see you earlier. just thought id say we started the koha pilot at my school today
17:50 nancyk joined #koha
17:50 lastnode and thank you very much for helping with the sysadmin stuff yesterday
17:50 lastnode including postfix
17:52 libsysguy so refworks says they need a database name to target the z39.50 server
17:52 libsysguy does anybody know what I should tell them
17:53 marcelr joined #koha
17:53 jwagner libsysguy, the database name should be in your $KOHA_CONF file -- look for the line that looks like this:
17:54 jwagner <database>koha_db</database>
17:54 libsysguy oh ok cool
17:54 chris_n libsysguy: biblios
17:54 jwagner default port is usually 210 -- you might need to open your firewall
17:55 chris_n if you have not changed it from the install default
17:55 cait hi chris_n
17:55 chris_n heya cait
17:55 libsysguy hmm the port for mine says 9998
17:55 libsysguy so i guess that is what it is
17:56 jwagner whatever :-)
17:56 thd joined #koha
17:56 trea-away is now known as trea
17:57 schuster libsysguy - yep that was the default mine was at 9998
17:57 libsysguy sweet im glad im not crazy
17:58 miguel joined #koha
17:59 schuster I don't know you well enough to answer that comment yet!  LOL!!!
17:59 libsysguy haha you're probably right...maybe I just had a moment of clarity
18:00 Brooke #startmeeting
18:00 huginn Meeting started Wed Sep  7 18:00:21 2011 UTC.  The chair is Brooke. Information about MeetBot at
18:00 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00 nancyk Hi, just testing...first time...Washoe County Library, Reno
18:01 Brooke Howdy, Welcome
18:01 Brooke feel free to introduce yerselves with #info
18:01 nancyk Hi Brooke
18:01 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, NEKLS
18:01 slef #info MJ Ray,
18:01 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy, Rijksmuseum, Netherlands
18:01 daniel_g #info Daniel Grobani, Samuel Merritt University
18:01 chris_n #info Chris Nighswonger, FBC, 3.4 Release Maintainer
18:01 libsysguy #info Elliott Davis, University of Texas at Tyler
18:01 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, PTFS/LibLime
18:01 trea #info Thatcher Rea, ByWater Solutions
18:01 nengard #info Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions
18:01 sekjal #info Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions, 3.6 Quality Assurance Manager
18:01 ColinC #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe
18:02 rhcl #info Greg Lawson  (May have to step out shortly)
18:02 Guillaume joined #koha
18:02 lastnode #info Mahangu Weerasinghe, Sri Lanka
18:02 schuster #info David Schuster, Plano ISD, Texas
18:02 mtj #info Mason James, KohaAloha NZ
18:02 slef rhcl: happens to us all
18:02 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
18:03 Brooke Haere Mai, let's get started :D
18:03 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
18:03 Brooke Roadmap to 3.4 Chris :)
18:04 chris_n ok
18:04 * slef hands Brooke a #topic
18:04 nengard hi nancyk!
18:04 chris_n everything is on track for the release of 3.4.5 on the 22nd of this month
18:04 Brooke #topic 3.4 Roadmap
18:04 Topic for #koha is now 3.4 Roadmap
18:04 chris_n plans are to continue releases on a monthly basis as long as work is being done which applies to the 3.4.x branch
18:05 Brooke outstanding
18:05 chris_n once things slow down
18:05 chris_n we'll announce EOL
18:05 chris_n and take a vote at the nearest meeting
18:05 chris_n a bunch of work has been pushed for 3.4.5
18:05 chris_n and thats it for me
18:06 thd left #koha
18:06 cait chris_n++
18:06 Brooke okie dokie, any questions for Chris?
18:06 slef #info a bunch of work pushed for 3.4.5, on track to release 22nd, plans to continue monthly until things slow down
18:07 fredericd #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil
18:07 slef any blockers or critical bugs chris_n?
18:07 paul_p joined #koha
18:07 chris_n slef: one moment
18:09 paul_p hello, sorry to be a little bit late.
18:09 chris_n according to BZ there are 12
18:09 chris_n you may see them here:
18:09 chris_n seven are marked patch-submitted
18:09 Brooke #link
18:09 paul_p (changing my internet provider at home... just today...)
18:09 chris_n patch-sent rather
18:10 chris_n it looks like some have failed QA
18:10 paul_p #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre, sorry to be a little bit late
18:10 slef just recreated my table
18:10 slef #link
18:11 chris_n some look like they should be closed, but have not been
18:11 slef bug 6292 is critical, needs signoff - anyone want to do it?
18:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6292 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , Overdue notices have a bug when multiple overdues exist
18:11 sekjal 1 blocker, 1 critical, 4 major are Failed QA
18:11 Brooke #help bug 6292
18:11 Brooke movin' on
18:11 sekjal 54 bugs awaiting QA (no blockers, no critical, 5 major).  81 bugs needing signoff (no blockers, 3 critical, 8 major)
18:11 Brooke we can get this stuff asynchronously
18:12 cait slef: ther eis an open question for the follow up
18:12 slef yeah, OK. Eyeballs are good but we're being too slow
18:12 cait slef: i signed off the first patch, but not sure how to reproduce the problem for the secon dpatch
18:12 slef cait: ok, later
18:13 Brooke #topic Roadmap to 3.6
18:13 * slef gets out of the way before Brooke runs him over
18:13 chris_n bug 5995 has been back ported to both 3.2.x and 3.4.x btw
18:13 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5995 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, matthias.meusburger, ASSIGNED , Glitch with checkauth
18:13 Brooke anyone not named Paul wanna do the update on 3.6 so Paul can ask questions.
18:13 chris_n it probably can be closed
18:13 sekjal Brooke: I think I can speak a bit to 3.6
18:14 * slef holds 3.6 down for sekjal to give it a damn good talking to
18:14 Brooke hooray
18:14 Brooke Ian's got the floor
18:14 sekjal as mentioned a few lines early, we're at approximately 50 patches needing QA, and around 80 needing signoff
18:14 sekjal patches have been progressing through the process slowly but continuously
18:15 paul_p and many "don't apply" or "failed QA" anymore (and that's a pity if it fixed a bug)
18:15 sekjal major developments that are nearing fruition include Hourly Loans and the Holds Rewrite
18:15 Brooke #info 50 patches need QA, and around 80 needing signoff, get to gettin'.
18:15 Brooke hourly loans were one of Paul's questions, wanna go into gorey blow by blow detail?
18:15 sekjal so far, we have only had to revert one commit
18:16 Brooke bug 5549
18:16 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , Hourly Loans
18:16 sekjal This development has been signed off by libsysguy, who I believe is using the branch in production
18:16 libsysguy yes we are
18:16 paul_p #info 55 patches are "failed QA" and 44 are "does not apply"
18:16 sekjal so hourly loans are now onto the QA stage
18:17 schuster What is the main reason for failed or does not apply?
18:17 nengard it totally depends on the patch
18:17 oleonard There's no main reason
18:17 nengard if the patch doesn't fix the problem it fails
18:17 paul_p schuster: I think the main reason for does not apply is "does not apply anymore"
18:17 sekjal given that this is a MAJOR change to many core modules, testing needs to be thorough and painstaking, lest we break library circulation
18:17 nengard and what paul_p said about the other :)
18:17 thd joined #koha
18:17 paul_p (dna anymore because other patches have been pushed and a rebase is needed)
18:18 sekjal I will fail a patch in QA if it does not do what it proports to do, if it introduces other bugs or issues, or if it violates style guidelines
18:18 paul_p from my experience, sometimes (maybe 60% of the time), it's easy to rebase. Sometimes (30%) it's tricky, and 10% it's hard (patch must be rewritten)
18:18 libsysguy ^^
18:19 sekjal patches from before the Template::Toolkit conversion in 3.4 are especially lengthy to rebase, as any interface changes must be redone in the new language
18:19 paul_p (I mean "does not apply". Rough number given by "my feeling @", a trademark from me ;) )
18:19 schuster Thanks paul_p for the descriptive reasoning..  I have been busy with other things for a couple of months and didn't know if it was mainly Template Toolkit type stuff or just bad rebase.
18:19 paul_p theu number of T::T issues is decreasing.
18:20 paul_p there are still some (i made one today. patch not sent yet)
18:20 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City [with a disembodied connection]
18:21 paul_p I wanted to ask : should we do something with "Failed QA" or "Does Not Apply" patches that seems "abandonned" by their original author ?
18:21 paul_p I feel the answer should be different for bugfixes and for enhancements
18:21 cait if the bug still remains someone else can work on it I would think
18:21 paul_p bugfixes = keep them open, if the bug is still here, it's usefull
18:21 Brooke mebbe use superceded
18:21 paul_p enhancements = close them after a toBeDefined time maybe
18:22 slef A small reminder: signer-offers please read the patch and make sure it doesn't introduce new bugs or include unrelated junk.
18:22 Brooke for things that no longer apply
18:22 paul_p superceded ?
18:22 oleonard I agree with that proposal paul_p
18:22 slef paul_p: in debian, the QA team would ask for people to take them over I think
18:22 sekjal we could assign these enhancements a different Closed status for easy retrieval
18:23 sekjal unfortunately, if no one is willing to take up a bug fix, we won't get very far by assigning it
18:23 cait sekjal: I like that idea
18:23 Brooke yep if it's divided into superceded for bugs that don't apply and abandoned for enhancements with no owner, might be clearer. Mebbe no.
18:23 sekjal then again, if no one is willing to take up a bug fix, it must not be very bad
18:23 paul_p you're probably right sekjal
18:24 cait or a feature not a lot of people use
18:24 tajoli joined #koha
18:24 paul_p or a bug that happens only in a rare situation
18:24 paul_p (like : you're a french library, using unimarc, printing your itemcallnumber labels, on a A3 printer)
18:25 Brooke #idea handle mouldy enhancements differently than mouldy bugs
18:25 cait perhps we should add the pending deadlines to the log?
18:25 Brooke can we programme Huginn to nag about dusty bugs?
18:26 Brooke like on GBSD?
18:26 cait he already nags abou tneeds sign-off
18:26 marcelr who contacts the original author in order to get possible reply?
18:26 cait I think don#t make it too much bot messages
18:26 francharb left #koha
18:26 sekjal we can set up Bugzilla to use Bug Whining to send emails out on a regular basis, with a list of bug reports meeting whatever saved search we like
18:26 oleonard Right, it's the author of the submitted patch who needs the reminder
18:27 paul_p Brooke, from Hugin side, probably. The question is also = what can bugzilla provide ?
18:28 slef ultimately, it's not hard to find dusty bugs if any dev has time, is it?
18:28 paul_p if anyone has a link about bz webservices,...
18:28 oleonard slef: Yeah, people can find stuff to do if they want to look for it. Most already have plenty to work on.
18:28 paul_p[…]a/WebService.html maybe
18:29 Brooke I get the sinking feeling this is a big procedure question and is like to be revisited. Anyone else think so?
18:30 schuster I feel we have been here before too...
18:30 marcelr i think so too
18:30 hdl joined #koha
18:30 Brooke well, we will keep working on our slow hunches, and if anyone has any bril ideas, start a wiki page, write em down, and flag stuff on the next agenda
18:31 Brooke that said
18:31 Brooke bug 6537
18:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6537 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, magnus, ASSIGNED , Simplified sysprefs for the web installer
18:31 Brooke go Paul :)
18:31 rhcl would anyone care to provide a bit of amplification on the holds rewrite if this is an appropriate time
18:32 nengard i thnk there is a detailed rfc on the wiki ...
18:32 paul_p the patch for 6537 has been pushed. It means the syspref system will be simplified a lot for translators.
18:32 cait magnuse++
18:33 sekjal rhcl:  the Holds Rewrite is currently in the testing phase.  ByWater Solutions is bringing up a test server to allow the sponsors to test the coded features against their own, familiar data
18:33 talljoy_lunch is now known as talljoy
18:33 paul_p Since 3.4, the description is now stored in the template scope, no more in the SQL database. It means we don't need anymore to have a syspref.sql file defined for each language
18:33 cait will be simplified for developers
18:33 sekjal I'd like to open that to the community in general, once we can figure out the privacy issues to the libraries' satisfaction
18:33 cait not having to edit a lot of sql files any longer, but only add new sysprefs to the en file
18:33 paul_p thanks to magnus, we now have only one syspref.sql file, shared by all languages. located at (searching)
18:34 oleonard sekjal: privacy issues?
18:34 wahanui privacy issues are taken very seriously around here - some libraries even refuse to use google books - because it asks google every time
18:34 sekjal oleonard:  patron data
18:34 chris_n slef: blo/cri 3.4.x bugs now number 4...
18:34 slef chris_n: ta
18:34 sekjal the current test data will be taken from the sponsoring libraries systems, and would need to be anonymized before letting other folks have access for testing
18:35 wizzyrea ^^
18:35 sekjal well, anonymized, or just wiped completely and reloaded with demo data
18:35 * chris_n has whined for large, clean sets of demo data for years :-)
18:36 paul_p the syspref file is now in misc/data/mysql/syspref.sql. If a specific syspref setup must be defined for a given language (like unimarc for frenchies), you still can have a fr/syspref.sql, that contains only UPDATE
18:36 paul_p what is nice with this is that it will help translators, but also help having the same syspref loaded for everybody
18:36 paul_p (previously, there was sometimes bugs because a syspref was not in the fr/syspref.sql file)
18:37 paul_p I hope i've been clear...
18:37 thd sekjal: just remember that real anonymisation is a myth because behaviour can be identifying..
18:37 Brooke lessbugs++
18:37 cait paul_p: only one small thing
18:38 cait it doesn#t change anything for translators
18:38 cait only for developers - but this is a very good change
18:38 paul_p cait, you're right
18:38 marcelr it is a simplification; less rebasing needed
18:39 paul_p yep, and less conflicts, and more fun ;-)
18:39 sekjal thd: there are ways to scramble behavior, too, but we'll get all that solved in the near future.
18:39 Brooke morefun++
18:39 cait magnuse++ :)
18:39 paul_p magnuse++
18:39 paul_p definetly !
18:39 mtj magnus++++!
18:39 Brooke magnuse++
18:39 Brooke just remember, beer > ++
18:40 Brooke #topic Roles for 3.8
18:40 Topic for #koha is now Roles for 3.8
18:40 paul_p well, i promize to pay a beer during next hackfest in Marseille ;-)
18:40 paul_p about my other question (Koha namespace), i saw someone added a link on the wiki, i haven't read it yet
18:40 mtj #info beer > ++
18:41 cait only if you like bear
18:41 cait um beer
18:41 * nengard is scared to admit that she does not like beer at all
18:41 nengard ick
18:41 paul_p cait, but you're german, so you like beer !
18:41 sekjal paul_p: that link is to a message I sent out to the koha-devel list just after KohaCon '10
18:41 slef nengard: wine?
18:41 wahanui wine is probably not usually the best for programming :)
18:42 Brooke (find beer replace chocolate)
18:42 paul_p (well, at least, that's what the world think ;-) )
18:42 slef wahanui: beer?
18:42 wahanui beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.
18:42 nengard slef if i have to choose between the two ... but usually just fruity girly mixed drinks for me
18:42 Brooke arright
18:42 cait paul_p: I don't!
18:42 Brooke back to work you
18:42 Brooke Roles for 3.8 folks
18:42 paul_p it's like for me : all frenchies like escargots. I don't ;-)
18:42 Brooke for Top Sucker I've Paul Poulain
18:42 Brooke aka RM
18:43 paul_p Top Sucker... not sure I'll like this name ;-)
18:43 nengard hehe
18:43 cait #link
18:43 aogle joined #koha
18:43 nancyk left #koha
18:44 Brooke no one else for that
18:44 slef I want to be clear that this is only for 3.8, not 4.0 too.
18:44 Brooke any discussion?
18:44 paul_p thanks nengard & sekjal for adding you as doc & qa
18:44 marcelr i like his proposal; will be hard to realize probably, but we probably need more concensus on changing procedures?
18:44 oleonard I agree with slef.
18:44 slef Is paul_p willing to stand for reappointment next time?
18:44 sekjal I have some discussion about paul_p's proposal I'd like to bring up
18:44 Brooke discuss away
18:45 paul_p slef, my proposal is for both 3.8 and 4.0, as I think both must be started at the same time, as 4.0 is a "long term" change in my mind
18:45 sekjal I agree that we need to start thinking past the next timed release cycle
18:45 sekjal but I disagree that Koha 4.0 should be time-released for 12 months after 3.6
18:45 paul_p sekjal, why ?
18:45 sekjal I would counterpropose this:
18:46 sekjal continue the 3.X release cycle on a timed basis
18:46 sekjal 3.8 to 3.10 to 3.12, etc
18:46 sekjal every 6 months
18:46 tcohen left #koha
18:46 sekjal meanwhile, starting early in the 3.8 release cycle
18:46 paul_p what would be in 3.10, 3.12,... ?
18:47 paul_p do you mean we would have 2 versions at the same time ?
18:47 wizzyrea (I think he's still talking)
18:47 Brooke ^
18:47 sekjal the community would get together and enumerate the features that would define Koha 4.0
18:47 cait let's answer one question after the other or this will all get very confusing in here
18:48 sekjal these would be features that would be things we could reasonably expect to complete in the next year or two
18:48 sekjal every 6 months, the features that are well tested and ready for inclusion could be released as part of the 3.X release cycle
18:48 sekjal as we do with master currently
18:48 Brooke #idea long term development goals coupled with short term release cycles
18:49 sekjal we would continue on 3.X until all the features are developed for 4.0
18:49 Brooke (Don't quite like the way that's phrased, so feel free to edit it. Just want to highlight the meat of this.)
18:50 cait and rebase those on current master for 4.0?
18:50 sekjal cait: features would all be on topic branches, based on master
18:50 paul_p cait, I think you rise a good & major point
18:50 sekjal and would need to be rebased frequently
18:50 thd sekjal: I suspect the actual development process depends more on what actually happens than any real overarching plan.
18:50 cait sekjal: ok, thx
18:51 paul_p sekjal, except that if 4.0 include major structural changes, it will quickly be a pain
18:51 paul_p for example : the solR work changes everything in searching.
18:51 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6854] : Double password encryption on member update if there is no password in the csv and no default password value. <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6854>
18:51 sekjal paul_p:  my hope is that in the stages where we identify the features for 4.0, we also identify the underlying structural changes common to all those features
18:52 sekjal so the 'plumbing' changes can be done first, thus laying the groundwork for all the porcelain
18:52 tajoli IMHO label 4.0 is stritly connect with Solr. That is a big change. it is enough to change number
18:52 paul_p tajoli++
18:52 Brooke sekjal: this sounds happy for interface design. Am I off?
18:52 paul_p but I plan to do more !
18:52 paul_p well, I don't say "impossible", but I think it must be evaluated very carefully.
18:53 tajoli And Solr is for international support bugsù
18:53 oleonard Brooke: ?
18:53 sekjal I believe that Solr support is just one of the features that should be part of Koha 4.0
18:53 paul_p the move to Koha name space, solR, ...
18:53 cait I like sekjal's proposal
18:53 cait I am woried about having 2 branches, they will diverge pretty fast and be hard to bring together
18:53 marcelr afraid so too
18:53 sekjal I would also like to see:  arbitrary metadata formats, revist patron data structure, mobile templates
18:53 paul_p sekjal, suppose library A sponsor a feature, he will want it "asap". So on 3.x . you'll have to "rewrite" it for 4.0.
18:53 nancyk joined #koha
18:53 paul_p and that will be a pain.
18:54 ColinC tying a bunch of features to a magic number like 4.0 doesent necessarily work
18:54 Brooke oleonard: if you're planning things out, usage consideration is part of that and might declutter some menus and such
18:54 cait better bring it all together at one point in time
18:54 tajoli In fact Zebra is well for english data, not for a user of mine with greeck + arabic+armenian+ slavic
18:54 paul_p we (biblibre) face this problem already for H:T:P and T:T
18:54 cait and from the same base
18:54 sekjal paul_p:  library A needs to understand that just because they sponsor a change doesn't mean it will get into Koha on their schedule
18:54 sekjal it must meet the community's guidelines and procedures
18:54 sekjal which could take longer
18:54 oleonard sekjal++
18:54 wizzyrea ^^ a very good point
18:54 paul_p sekjal, maybe in US you can explain, but in france, you can't !
18:55 paul_p in France, the RFP always says "i want this and that, and at this date"
18:55 slef sekjal: I think you mean the community's quality control.
18:55 cait tajoli: we have pretty good experience with hebrew and german
18:55 paul_p that's why we develop on stable, then port on master
18:56 tajoli The problem is the mix of many alphabeths
18:56 paul_p (once a library has adopted Koha it's usually different , fortunatly)
18:56 tajoli In fact Zebra support every alphabeth, but all in the same time !!
18:56 slef I don't feel that I have enough data on the wiki to vote for paul_p for 4.0 and I will not vote for manifesto-free candidates on principle.  I'm concerned that Solr's larger server requirements don't compromise our happy Zebra users.
18:57 cait tajoli: I can only tell from my experience, hebrew and roman letters work well for us
18:57 slef all this talk of "Solr changes everything in searching" is a bit scary.
18:57 Brooke okay
18:57 Brooke Sekjal: said your peace?
18:57 paul_p sekjal, what we say is "well, you get the feature X at the expected date, but we can't guarantee when it will be integrated in official Koha. So you may have to wait, or, even, have to abandon your feature. Or stay with your fork"
18:57 schuster slef++
18:58 tajoli Clerly not. The big work is to do is to add Zebra in parallel
18:58 paul_p slef, have you seen my mail on koha-devel about the work some ppl are doing to have zebra reintegrated ?
18:58 sekjal paul_p:  your company can certainly make the contractual arrangements to have a feature on their server by X date
18:59 sekjal and then, yes, they would need to be aware that they'll either need to be on a fork for while, or possibly lose the feature if it never gets accepted
18:59 paul_p (s/can/must ;-) )
18:59 slef paul_p: maybe not. I'm struggling to follow the lists recently. Got message-id?
18:59 tajoli Now Biblire has done a new API search on Solr. What we need to do is to develop the same API on Zebra
18:59 tajoli The feature are over the API
18:59 paul_p slef: our work on solr change a lot the internals of searching. tajoli & some others have started reintegrated zebra through this new API
19:00 paul_p the API is expected to be flexible enough to let us add other search engines later
19:00 mtj the one thing everyone agrees on is that the new Koha::Search code works with both solr and zebra
19:00 sekjal Brooke:  I believe I have presented my proposal in it's entirety.  I welcome any further feedback or requests for clarification
19:00 paul_p slef = Message-ID: <>
19:00 Brooke if you could go through the log, pick out what you've said, and post it, that'd be fab.
19:01 Brooke cause there's a lot of side talk going on here
19:01 Brooke any further commentary?
19:01 paul_p slef, does it answer your concern ?
19:01 paul_p (well, if you need more clarification, ask on koha-devel or the way you want)
19:02 slef Not in the way you want. It sounds backwards. So the API has been designed for Solr and Zebra is being tacked on as an afterthought?  I don't see why what works is being treated as second-class citizen.
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19:02 chris_n` is now known as chris_n
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19:03 paul_p slef, nope, you misunderstand = we've redesigned the search API to have it modular. And we made the solR stuff (because it was sponsored), tajoli has started the zebra stuff
19:03 slef reading that message to see if I've misunderstood it
19:03 Brooke tajoli++
19:03 paul_p yep, definetly.
19:03 paul_p tajoli++
19:04 slef ok, well, we wait and see... this vote should still be for 3.8 not 4.0 IMO
19:04 paul_p tcohen++
19:04 Brooke It is for 3.8
19:04 Brooke I never said it was for 4.0
19:04 Brooke you clarified
19:04 Brooke the horse has been beaten
19:04 Brooke and beaten once more
19:04 Brooke I do not want to go for three.
19:04 paul_p well... but I plan to start 4.0 in nov (at least discussions about it) too.
19:04 cait Brooke: I think it has to be clarified because Paul's proposal is for both
19:04 paul_p so, my application is for both versions.
19:05 Brooke I realise, but I'm sayin vote on one release at a time
19:05 paul_p yep, I confirm it is.
19:05 Brooke cause our tiny brains can't handle it.
19:05 schuster left #koha
19:05 slef yeah and I had no answer to the direct question: Is paul_p willing to stand for reappointment next time?
19:05 cait Brooke: I think we have to figure this out first before we can vote
19:06 Brooke slef: I think that'd clear things up.
19:06 paul_p Brooke, the problem here is that either I don't start 4.0 because i've not been elected or I start anyway hoping everybody will thank me at the end.
19:06 paul_p I prefer saying things now.
19:07 nengard Do we need an RM for 4.0 to start talking about what 4.0 is going to be?
19:07 nengard can't we just brainstorm without an RM?
19:07 sekjal nengard++
19:08 marcelr i understand that he wants to run in parallel
19:08 sekjal I feel that anything major enough to warrant a full version number jump is major enough to need as much community input as possible
19:08 slef paul_p: or you could start laying the ground as part of 3.8 and accept that maybe someone else will finish 4.0 or restart it. OK?
19:08 paul_p yep. brainstorm for, say, 2 months, then start works. And do works in //
19:08 cait and i think this is something we have to talk about
19:08 cait it really worries me about Paul's proposal
19:08 cait I like Ian's proposal better
19:09 nengard i'm not following everything we're talking about - but am i right in my understanding that we'd be working on 4.0 and 3.8 at the same time ... essentially creating forks of our own?
19:09 nengard I have a hard enough time testing patches for one version at a time
19:09 cait nengard: agreed - and maintenance for 3.4
19:09 Guest9351 left #koha
19:09 nengard right!
19:09 ColinC and why 3.0 why not 3.10?
19:09 nengard just too much to maintain for our small group
19:10 nengard ColinC you mean 4.0?
19:10 ColinC yes
19:10 paul_p nengard, good point. and sekjal suggestion to have 3.10 / 3.12 ... while workin on 4.0 also has this kind of problem
19:10 mtj i think we don't need to commit to a 4.0 release in 12 months, too
19:10 mtj ... koha 4.0 should be released when its done
19:10 cait paul_p: with ian's proposal we would not have diverging branches
19:11 ColinC ++mtj
19:11 thd mtj++
19:11 sekjal my proposal would have 3 main branches at once:  3.4.x, 3.6.x and master.  this would change to 3.6.x, 3.8.x and master when 3.4 is EOLed
19:11 paul_p ColinC, we use to change the 1st number when there is a major structural change 1=>2 = MARC 2=>3 = zebra
19:11 Brooke 3 > 4 gamification!
19:11 cait I think we can agree to change to 4.0 once we have rewrote the search api for zebra and solr
19:11 * Brooke throws up the horns!
19:11 cait the question is how to make that happen
19:12 paul_p sekjal, it's also my proposal. So I don't understand where our propositions differ ?
19:12 sekjal paul_p:  I do not agree with the 1 year timeline for 4.0
19:12 nengard paul you said you'd start 4.0 in november ... that's one month after we start 3.8
19:12 ColinC but we arn't tied to that ... numbers are marketing making things dependent on a magic number holds things up
19:12 Brooke so here's what I'm gonna say
19:12 Brooke it's 3.12
19:12 paul_p nengard, did I said that ?
19:12 Brooke over here.
19:12 schuster joined #koha
19:12 Brooke I think we table this part.
19:12 fredericd Paul: Where is published the new search API implement by your SolR search engine?
19:13 Brooke unless someone comes to summat brilliant in like 5 minutes.
19:13 paul_p fredericd,
19:13 schuster left #koha
19:13 thd sekjal: Do you think that one year is too short for 4.0?
19:13 paul_p (branch solR or something like that)
19:13 talljoy paulp:  you did...(2:03:12 PM) paul_p: well... but I plan to start 4.0 in nov (at least discussions about it) too.
19:13 slef Brooke: s/table/postpone/ :)
19:13 sekjal and, consequently, I do not think that it's necessary to loosen QA procedures on the road to 4.0, since we can release features as they're truly done and stable
19:13 schuster joined #koha
19:13 fredericd paul_p: Could it be available outside the code?
19:13 paul_p I was meaning discussions about what should be in 4.0 and how to reach the goal. not doing things
19:14 sekjal thd:  I feel that, yes, 1 year may be too short.  I feel we should, as a community, define what features will make 4.0 first, and then start working on them
19:14 nengard paul_p ... i thought i read that ... now i'm confused so i'm going to read and stay quiet
19:14 paul_p fredericd, yep. And it should be in english (for instance, docs are in french)
19:14 Brooke so
19:14 Brooke #topic Translation Manager
19:14 Topic for #koha is now Translation Manager
19:14 thd sekjal: I prefer the way you put it last that we release what is ready without loosening  standards
19:15 nengard found it - (2:03:12 PM) paul_p: well... but I plan to start 4.0 in nov (at least discussions about it) too.
19:15 paul_p nengard, I was meaning discussions about what should be in 4.0 and how to reach the goal. not doing things
19:15 cait sekjal: I agree with that too
19:15 cait paul_p: are you open to discuss points from your proposal and have the community vote on them?
19:16 Brooke anyone have objections to Frédéric Demians?
19:16 mtj i think a smooth way to integrate solr ... would be to get Koha:Search:Zebra working first on 3.x
19:16 paul_p i'm always open to discussions. I'm usually complaining for silence, not for discussion ;-)
19:16 paul_p cait, i'm always open to discussions. I'm usually complaining for silence, not for discussion ;-)
19:17 cait so you are willing to change plans eventually?
19:17 paul_p cait, if you convince me the plan you propose is better than mine, of course ! but if I still think my plan is better, then i'll continue to argue.
19:18 paul_p TIMTOWTDI !
19:18 mtj Brooke:  no objections
19:19 thd paul_p: I think that you should set ambitious goals and if they are all realised then that will be great.  As long as we have a reasonable procedure for the quality and not abandoning users I am all for every possible great improvement.
19:19 sekjal Brooke:  I'm curious about the technical details of Frédéric Demians' proposal
19:19 paul_p fredericd++
19:19 sekjal but I have no objection
19:19 thd Brooke: objections to fredericd are absent.
19:19 cait no objection
19:20 Brooke k
19:20 Brooke hearing none, I'm going to move down the slate to
19:20 cait i would be willing to assist
19:20 paul_p same for me. I like the idea ! (although technically, how to do it is another question, I agree)
19:20 thd sekjal: please ask about your curiosity while fredericd is here to answer
19:20 Brooke #topic Documentation Manager
19:20 Topic for #koha is now Documentation Manager
19:20 fredericd sekjal: as translation manager?
19:20 Brooke fredericd: yep
19:21 paul_p fredericd, the idea to remove po from main package I think
19:21 nengard chris and paul said that i was doc manager until i died .... so i promise to continue doing my job for 3.8 :)
19:21 fredericd As I explained on the wiki I would like to continue the task
19:21 fredericd The big challenge will be to succeed to extract .po files from Koha main git repository and manage them in a git submodule.
19:21 sekjal fredericd:  yes, I'm curious about the git submodule set up you propose.  I'm not sure this meeting is the most appropriate time to go into it, though
19:21 fredericd This will slim down git repository size
19:21 paul_p maybe a thread to start on koha-devel ?
19:21 fredericd sekjal: I can't enter into technical details yet
19:22 fredericd I also would like to propose a solution to allow Perl command-line scripts translation: scripts like or
19:22 fredericd But it must be discussed first. I'm not sure it's a necessity.
19:22 paul_p fredericd, not sure it will slim that much the repo size, as what has been put in is in the repo forever. even if removed from the tree
19:22 thd fredericd: Is the intent that for those who only want untranslated Koha they can avoid the larger size code base?
19:22 fredericd thd: yes
19:22 Brooke I'm going to put this out there in the big wide open
19:23 fredericd paul_p: you may be correct...
19:23 paul_p that could help having ppl sumitting patches more easily
19:23 paul_p ie : you can push patches on the submodule, while the RM push on koha
19:23 fredericd so we would need to restart a new repo? I don't know
19:23 slef I think you can shallow checkout if you want to save space.
19:23 Brooke meetings are getting longish, and I think that's happening from folks getting slammed at work. Pop in, talk to each other more. Should make for shorter meetings and better communication.
19:23 paul_p workflow for translations / workflow for Koha
19:23 sekjal I move that we move discussion of the git submodule to the koha-devel list
19:23 paul_p Brooke++
19:23 paul_p agreed
19:23 sekjal and continue with the rest of this meeting's agenda
19:24 Brooke also
19:24 Brooke the agenda is a wiki
19:24 Brooke so if you think of summat, post it
19:24 Brooke and if I don't honour it sufficiently, bring it up again next meeting :)
19:24 Brooke any objections to Nengard being Documentation Manager for Life? (or at least 3.8?)
19:25 nengard LOL
19:25 cait no objection
19:25 tajoli no
19:25 schuster nengard++
19:25 paul_p no objection
19:25 jcamins_away +1
19:25 cait nengard++
19:25 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
19:25 marcelr +1
19:25 daniel_g +1
19:25 wizzyrea go go gadget nengard
19:25 Brooke ha ha sucker!
19:25 Brooke oh wait
19:25 paul_p nengard, claire should catch you in the next weeks to see how it is possible to split the docbook in smaller parts
19:25 ColinC +1
19:25 Brooke we're adding more ha ha
19:26 paul_p that would be much esier for translators to deal with smaller files
19:26 nengard paul_p - i'd love a way to do that - but then links from section to section are much harder - which is why i haven't done it
19:26 * jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services #intro
19:26 Brooke Am I to assume there is also no objection to Documentation of the DB as Nengard too in 3.8?
19:26 nengard regarding db documentation bug 6716 tracks my work on that
19:26 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6716 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, nengard, ASSIGNED , Database Documentation
19:26 paul_p yes, hdl told us. So she's looking for a solution/suggestion/idea to that.
19:26 nengard awesome!!
19:27 paul_p (dunno if she will find something though. Say awesome once she's found ;-) )
19:27 nengard hehe
19:27 nengard I appreciate help even if it doesn't come to a positive result :)
19:27 Brooke not hearing any so you're saddled for DB stuff too.
19:27 Brooke Bug Wranglers
19:27 nengard okey dokey
19:27 Brooke Ima go with whoever wants it gets it
19:27 nengard shouldn't we be doing #info for the voting?
19:27 Brooke cause we don't have a finite number of slots
19:27 Brooke prolly
19:28 wizzyrea define the job please?
19:28 cait we are not voting today, are we?
19:28 cait nominations
19:28 Brooke #info Nicole C Engard is the Documentation Manager and also Documenting the DB
19:30 Brooke wizzy, I'm taking my play on that from Magnus: Sign off patches, close bugs, keep an eye out for duplicates, help organize
19:30 nengard sorry cait, wrong word i guess
19:30 sekjal also linking 'depends on' and 'blocks' bugs, if possible
19:31 wizzyrea *nod* got it
19:31 * wizzyrea volunteers
19:31 cait nengard: not thinking voting would me a difference here :)
19:31 cait wizzyrea++ :)
19:32 marcelr katrin and magnus already do it, regardless of a formal role
19:32 wizzyrea ^^
19:32 Brooke which is why we <3 them marcel :)
19:32 cait oh :)
19:32 marcelr <3?
19:32 wizzyrea it's a heart, sideways
19:33 Brooke #topic QA Ian Walls
19:33 Topic for #koha is now QA Ian Walls
19:33 slef oh I wondered why everyone was redirecting fd/3 online!
19:33 Brooke any objections with Ian?
19:33 paul_p Everybody is a bug wrangler when he work on bz...
19:34 slef Brooke: seems not
19:35 Brooke on a related note: Ian, do you have a problem with 2 minions instead of just one?
19:35 marcelr ian++
19:35 cait no objections
19:35 cait sekjal++
19:35 daniel_g I'm unclear on the process going on here. I thought elections are in October. What is this?
19:35 Brooke Elections are in the beginning of October
19:35 Brooke this is nominations.
19:35 cait nominations... talking about plans and candidates I think
19:35 cait and what is involved doing the job
19:35 daniel_g can someone object to a nomination?
19:35 sekjal I have no objections; as many helpers as I can get is a good thing
19:36 Brooke you can, but it's kind of silly. I've been putting up with it, because I think it's a good idea for a candidate to not be blindsided at an election.
19:36 daniel_g ok, thanks
19:37 Brooke that said, any objections to having both Marcel and Jonathan Druart on the slate?
19:37 wizzyrea none here
19:37 sekjal no objection
19:37 cait no objection
19:37 mtj no objection
19:37 Brooke #info QA manager has Ian Walls
19:37 paul_p agreed
19:38 miguel left #koha
19:38 Brooke #info Assistant QAs are slated as Marcel de Rooy and Jonathan Druart
19:38 Brooke #topic Mason James as Packaging Manager
19:38 Topic for #koha is now Mason James as Packaging Manager
19:38 Brooke anything?
19:38 wahanui anything is possible with enough development work :)
19:39 mtj i have to assume here, that robin forgot to add himself for this role?
19:40 paul_p what does "packaging task" contain, exactly ?
19:40 Brooke which role?
19:40 wizzyrea packaging manager
19:40 paul_p debian/RH/... packages ?
19:40 mtj the role of Packaging Manager
19:40 Brooke eythian in the house yet?
19:41 Brooke guess not
19:41 mtj i assume its creating .deb and .rpm files from koha releases
19:41 wizzyrea ^^
19:42 Brooke I'm going to assume there aren't too many folks that are interested and move back to the whole icky RM discussion, because I did say I'd go back
19:43 Brooke I just wanted to get a few things off the list for morale
19:43 Brooke #topic Back to RM
19:43 Topic for #koha is now Back to RM
19:43 daniel_g left #koha
19:43 Brooke keeping in mind it's nominations
19:43 oleonard joined #koha
19:44 * oleonard gets his internet back
19:44 Brooke I think we have to have a good think about the 3.8 / 4.0 thing
19:44 marcelr should be discussed further on ml?
19:44 Brooke I also think this might be related to the numbering item that is next on the agenda
19:44 Brooke yes, that is a good idea
19:45 sekjal Brooke:  yes, that agenda item has already been covered to the poster's satisfaction
19:45 paul_p yep, I think that too
19:45 Brooke keep in mind, ye of incredible procrastination capacity, that 3.8 hits on 22 October, and we've KohaCon on the horizon.
19:45 Brooke so
19:46 Brooke are we agreed that this is moved to the list temporarily?
19:46 slef ok... I'll make more effort to catch up on list
19:46 sekjal agreed
19:46 mtj agreed
19:47 paul_p agred
19:47 miguel joined #koha
19:47 Brooke #agreed further discussion of the RM slot is going to be move to the list
19:47 Brooke hooray
19:48 sekjal I will consolidate my proposal as laid out here into an email to koha-discuss and koha-devel
19:48 Brooke #topic Numbering for post 3.8 releases
19:48 Topic for #koha is now Numbering for post 3.8 releases
19:49 Brooke no one?
19:49 wahanui hmmm... no one is working on kiritakikoha
19:50 rangi back
19:50 Brooke welcome back
19:50 Brooke do you have a burning desire to discuss numbering post 3.8?
19:50 mtj hmmm - 3.10 , and then 3.12 ??
19:50 rangi brooke scroll back
19:50 rangi sekjal answered already
19:51 Brooke arrighty then
19:51 mtj ahh, ok :)
19:51 Brooke #topic KohaCon2011
19:51 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon2011
19:51 slef I always saw the specifics as being for the rm
19:51 Brooke Bear in mind that kmkale has a broken arm and is typing with the wrong hand
19:51 slef ow!
19:52 rangi could link to programme here?
19:52 rangi I would but im on the bus
19:53 slef I;m at dinner so similarly limited for 10mins
19:53 Brooke #link
19:53 Brooke sping.
19:53 cait kmkale around?
19:53 slef Brooke++
19:53 Brooke pfft
19:53 Brooke that's rangi and cait for ye
19:54 slef ?
19:54 Brooke beautification project
19:54 Brooke my wki was uglay
19:54 Brooke anyhoo
19:54 Brooke get to conference
19:54 Brooke it will be a blast
19:54 nengard left #koha
19:55 Brooke there is your programme. We will probably continue to tweak that as the date draws near, but it's a nice overview.
19:56 Brooke any questions, please ask, and hopefully kmkale will address them if I don't know the answers
19:57 Brooke #topic KohaCon2012
19:57 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon2012
19:57 Jesse left #koha
19:57 Brooke we have two bids, one from Reno, NV, USA and one from Scotland, UK
19:57 Brooke #info Voting starts 1 October
19:57 Brooke now how do we manage?
19:58 Brooke the suggestion is that we butter up nengard and ask for her survey setup another time
19:59 thd nengard: You are being volunteered.
19:59 cait nengard:plz? :)
19:59 * oleonard checks the fridge for butter
19:59 jcamins nengard isn't here at the moment, so we can volunteer her for anything... right?
19:59 slef 2 options, so I think it's a straight choice of approval or either/or voting. Anyone remember what we used last time?
19:59 paul_p in french we say "missing person are always wrong". So yes, we can volunteer her ;-)
20:00 paul_p we used voting
20:00 thd jcamins: yes, I see no objection from her.
20:00 Brooke jcamins, I concur. ;)
20:00 slef paul_p: yes, what sort? I forget and can't look for an hour :)
20:00 slef anyway nm
20:00 rangi slef ranked votes last time
20:01 paul_p but in this case, shouldn't we think to a rule to avoid having KohaCon in US just 3 years after the previous KohaCon in US
20:01 Brooke if she doesn't read this by like next week and let us know, we'll figure out a fallback, yes?
20:01 rangi stv almost
20:01 jcamins nengard is going to insist (understandably) that the exact wording of the questions be provided by someone else.
20:01 cait stv?
20:01 paul_p (not that I don't want to go to NV)
20:01 slef paul_p: don't change the rules mid-process. Even if I'd like the result, not really fair :)
20:02 slef jcamins: recycle last year's?
20:02 thd paul_p: If we exclude the US and one of two proposals is from the US then there is nothing to vote upon.
20:02 paul_p yep, I agree (and I agree my sentence was not correctly written)
20:02 slef rangi: ta
20:02 paul_p thd, let me rephrase : I think for KohaCon13 and later, we should define a rule to avoid repeated countries
20:02 jcamins slef: there were objections to the questions last year.
20:03 Brooke Paul, I tried and was shot down.
20:03 slef jcamins: got links/detail?
20:03 Brooke so community wins. :)
20:03 jcamins slef: not off the top of my head. I'm at work now.
20:03 slef jcamins: and was I one? ;)
20:03 paul_p well, maybe it's OK (but i'll ask all biblibrarians and french libraries to go & vote for UK ;-) )
20:03 jcamins slef: yes, you were one of the people objecting, as I recall.
20:03 slef well I can't really phrase it unless nancyk wants to help me :)
20:04 thd Brooke: Was no same country in the following year shot down?
20:04 Brooke that wasn't.
20:04 jcamins paul_p: this USian will be voting for the UK, too. :)
20:04 Brooke having a rotating slate was.
20:04 tajoli In fact as Italian a prefer UK
20:04 Brooke I didn't phrase that right at all
20:04 Brooke but any how
20:05 Brooke #agreed Nengard will hopefully once again be our saviour and create a survey based on what we did last time.
20:05 thd paul_p: Reno is by woods and a lake but much of Nevada is an arid desert.
20:05 slef jcamins: ooh I wonder why? :)
20:05 Brooke and if not, someone else will figure it out in time for the first.
20:06 * slef looks for his memory, but has forgotten where he left it
20:06 jcamins slef: I think the objection was about rank voting. thd may remember, I think he was the one who answered the objection.
20:06 wizzyrea i suspect it's backed up on disk somewhere
20:07 Brooke we're at the two hour mark
20:07 Brooke #topic Global Bug Squashing Days
20:07 Topic for #koha is now Global Bug Squashing Days
20:07 slef well rank voting boils down to either/or here anyway. lots are equal with only 2 choice
20:07 Brooke smashing success so far if ye ask me
20:07 nancyk left #koha
20:08 Brooke[…]bug_squashing_day
20:08 Brooke the twitter feed was neat
20:08 Brooke magnuse++
20:08 thd I favour score voting in a manner which removes motivation for false strategic voting but that is a topic for the mailing list and a different vote.
20:08 cait yep, gbsd++
20:09 cait #link[…]bug_squashing_day
20:09 thd slef: We should encourage more bidders.
20:09 marcelr left #koha
20:10 slef thd: next time...
20:10 wahanui i think next time is in 87 years or something... ;-)
20:10 ibeardslee rangi: some further plugging of Koha planned as part of the my ACCEPTED proposal to talk about the academy at LCA in Jan.
20:10 oleonard that gives us plenty of time
20:10 rangi ibeardslee: awesome!
20:10 slef kohacon2098
20:10 melia is now known as melia_away
20:11 thd As slef identified, the voting method hardly matters if there are only two candidates.
20:11 Brooke #topic Old Business (Actions from Last Meeting)
20:11 Topic for #koha is now Old Business (Actions from Last Meeting)
20:11 trea_ joined #koha
20:11 slef any objection to a mid month bug squash next time? thoughts on a weekend one?
20:11 magnus_away is now known as magnuse
20:12 cait hi magnuse
20:12 cait weekend one would be nice
20:12 cait but we have one every 2 weeks
20:12 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
20:13 * magnuse drops by briefly
20:13 magnuse slef: feel free to propose dates for gbsd!
20:13 Brooke #topic time and date of next meeting
20:13 Topic for #koha is now time and date of next meeting
20:13 paul_p slef, at BibLibre, we have a bug squashing session once every 2 fridays, in the morning
20:13 Brooke k movin' on
20:13 Brooke 5th October 10 UTC?
20:14 paul_p 10UTC is what we've decided = 18UTC (today) -8
20:15 * jcamins won't be there, but it seems fair to me. +1
20:15 slef looks ok at a glance
20:15 Brooke going once
20:15 paul_p will be in switzerland on 5th
20:15 magnuse +1
20:15 mtj +1
20:15 Brooke going twice...
20:16 paul_p but someone else from BibLibre will be able to attend (11AM in France)
20:16 cait paul_p: oh nice
20:16 Brooke #agreed 5 October 10 UTC
20:16 cait meeting has already ended, but any thoughts about rmaint?
20:16 Brooke #endmeeting
20:16 Topic for #koha is now 3.4.4 is now available; Next General IRC Meeting 7 September 2011 at 18.00 UTC. This is a nominations meeting.
20:16 huginn Meeting ended Wed Sep  7 20:15:55 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
20:16 huginn Minutes:[…]-09-07-18.00.html
20:16 huginn Minutes (text):[…]1-09-07-18.00.txt
20:16 huginn Log:  […]07-18.00.log.html
20:16 Brooke ha
20:16 Brooke scurry cats
20:16 Brooke scurry!
20:16 paul_p well, 10PM here, still no dinner, I leave ;-)
20:16 * oleonard scurries
20:16 oleonard left #koha
20:16 paul_p bye everybody
20:17 magnuse hm: <Brooke> 19:57:22> #info Voting starts 1 October
20:17 magnuse AGREED: voting closes 1 October (Brooke, 11:08:18)[…]-07-06-10.04.html
20:17 Brooke think about Release Maint for extra credit.
20:17 tajoli Time OK for me
20:17 trea left #koha
20:17 slef good spot magnuse
20:17 Brooke d'oh
20:17 magnuse we actually decided to close the voting on october 1st...
20:18 slef yeah we'd like that I think
20:18 tajoli left #koha
20:18 Brooke I really need to take time and review the agenda before meetings
20:18 magnuse i'll raise the issue on the mailing list tomorrow
20:18 Brooke cause right now
20:18 magnuse gota run now
20:18 Brooke they're kind of cryptic
20:18 magnuse see ya!
20:18 Brooke I'll do it, it was my bad
20:19 magnuse is now known as magnus_away
20:19 jwagner left #koha
20:20 slef Brooke: want me to mail you the agenda a few days ahead?
20:21 slef (that's what provokes me to fill in blanks in co-op meeting agendas)
20:22 Brooke nah
20:25 paul_p left #koha
20:28 ColinC left #koha
20:34 rangi ohh great email about migration from Heritage
20:34 fcapo left #koha
20:34 cait yay :)
20:35 melia_away is now known as melia
20:35 wizzyrea very nice
20:35 rangi lets all pile on and say that on the list ;)
20:35 wizzyrea lol
20:35 Brooke up Baile Átha Cliath!
20:37 cait night all
20:37 cait left #koha
20:39 Guillaume left #koha
20:42 matchew joined #koha
20:43 libsysguy left #koha
20:43 matchew Hi, is it appropriate to ask for help on installing koha in this channel?
20:43 slef it'll do ;)
20:44 matchew well, in that case here is my error: "GetHideLostItemsPreference" is not exported by the C4::Members module
20:44 matchew now to explain
20:44 matchew this is at the end of the installation on centOS 5.6
20:44 matchew when everything seems to be up and running
20:44 slef which koha version?
20:44 matchew ah yes, important
20:44 matchew 3.04.04
20:45 hdl left #koha
20:45 matchew that error is returned from
20:45 slef address?
20:45 wahanui address is fne
20:45 matchew there is more to the error, but it spans several lines
20:46 slef @query gethidelostitemspreferences
20:46 huginn slef: No results for "gethidelostitemspreferences."
20:46 slef was worth a try :)
20:47 slef it'll be 15mins before I can look much... don't know if anyone else has seen that... don't think I have
20:47 slef matchew: what address is the error at?
20:47 slef as in the address of the page
20:48 matchew well, its a local address
20:48 matchew and its the landing page
20:48 matchew it was after I thought I had everything configured
20:48 slef sure but it'll tell where to look
20:49 matchew so, th|:8080 (localhost:8080), etc
20:49 matchew    <-- the whole error
20:49 slef ok... I'll look in 15 or maybe someone will get it sooner
20:50 matchew sure
20:50 matchew i'm approaching the end of my work day
20:50 matchew so I may not be here...but I'll leave this up
20:50 slef yeah... almost 22:00 here
20:50 matchew Installing on centOS is not suggested, but I had not choice. I slogged through a lot of errors, but this one has me stumped.
20:51 matchew *had no choice
20:51 slef why no choice and which perl version?
20:52 matchew well, thats the server I was instructed to install it on.
20:52 matchew > This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi
20:53 slef it's possible but not as fun as debian-derived distributions
20:54 matchew tell me about it
20:54 slef didn't I read on that centos 5 no longer gets updates?
20:55 matchew possibly
20:55 matchew I did not set up this machine
20:55 matchew but right after they set it up with 5.6 they released 6
20:55 slef
20:56 slef erm, no
20:56 slef
20:57 slef upsets me when bosses make workers use old and imperfect tools
20:57 matchew good to know
20:57 matchew well, our old and imperfect production server is centOS
20:57 slef so anyway, you may meet a very hard problem and you may have your bum in the breeze, security-wise
20:57 matchew and they wanted the development server to mirror it
20:58 matchew thankfully the production server is set to be replaced by the end of the fiscal year
20:59 slef oh well that's something to look forward to
20:59 Brooke left #koha
20:59 matchew yep
20:59 matchew alright, well. time to call it a day. This problem has me stumped for now.
21:00 slef ok... you know where the logs are?
21:00 slef in case your mibbit goes pop
21:00 matchew I'll leave this open....otherwise I'll give it another go in the morning
21:00 matchew actually I do not
21:00 matchew I have come across the logs in my searches for other questions
21:00 matchew but, dont know exactly where they are kept.
21:00 slef I think it's
21:00 slef logs?
21:00 wahanui logs are at
21:01 slef yay wahanui
21:01 matchew nice
21:01 matchew thanks
21:01 slef np
21:01 matchew well, have a nice night. I'll be around tomorrow
21:01 slef I'll stay and watch the news headlines before looking at your paste :)
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21:08 ckirkland is this a good place for general koha questions?
21:09 slef yes but it's a bit quiet just now
21:09 ckirkland okay i'll throw it out there anyway- we're still on 3.2, upgrading to 3.4 soon. We'd really like to have total fines viewable on the "my summary" page for patrons. Is this possible?
21:09 ckirkland as opposed to them having to go to my fines tab
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21:11 slef it depends what you mean by possible... everything is possible, given time and money... but can you check the manual and a demo?
21:12 slef I suspect it hasn't changed betwen those versions.
21:13 ckirkland ok, because i saw that in 3.4 more fines details are viewable in the patron check out screen, wasn't sure about the patron side
21:13 ckirkland but didn't find anything in the manual
21:13 slef someone else would know more... also, you could put in an enhancement request
21:14 slef doesn't seem like a tough change to me
21:14 ckirkland okay thanks!
21:15 slef hire a devloper, probavbly be done in an hour or two
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21:54 rhcl is there a programmer in the house?
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22:09 rangi sup rhcl
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22:12 rhcl hey rangi
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22:15 rangi not needing a programmer anymore?
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22:19 aogle I believe he may have been wanting to ask if anyone knew of a python function to retrieve idle(not system idle, but no input idle) status
22:20 rangi ahh bug does i bet
22:20 rangi bug: ??
22:21 rangi (bug was one of the organisers of kiwipycon, and a python officianado)
22:22 aogle seems windows has a nice easy function.  But linux is lacking the obvious.  Searching is greatly hindered by python's IDLE
22:22 rangi who also may be asleep :)
22:23 aogle That's ok.  I shall continue to google it away.  I'm sure i'll figure out a way
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22:39 emery Is anyone availible to help right now? =8D  i need some help with the updgrade, i have upgraded to koha 3.4 and after the upgrade, my searches stopped working, anyone want a chalannge? =?)
22:40 rangi why dont you just stay with 3.2.10
22:40 emery because i like some of the features on 3.4 :o
22:41 emery and i want to know why it doesn't work, it is bugging me (the fact i can't fix it)
22:42 rangi well there is no one here different to the other 4 ppl who have tried
22:42 emery the last time we tried everyone left before i finished installing
22:43 rangi i dont know why you keep reinstalling, that wont magically fix it
22:43 emery i only went back once because i needed the search to work
22:44 emery and the first time i had my permissions screwed up
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22:55 emery we'll i geuss im not getting any help here
22:57 eythian That's because usually it works, and if it doesn't, that suggests there's something wrong somewhere, diagnosing that via IRC is really hard beyond the basics.
22:58 emery but i can get it to work in 3.2
22:58 eythian as in, if you switch the code back to 3.2, it starts working again?
22:58 emery yea
23:01 eythian same database, same koha-conf.xml?
23:01 emery yep
23:01 emery well, the database is upgraded
23:01 emery but same database
23:02 eythian yeah, 3.2 should work to some degree on a 3.4 database, just some things may break
23:02 emery oh
23:03 eythian you ran the upgrade to 3.4 script?
23:03 emery yes
23:03 emery i think
23:03 emery is it in the install.debian?
23:03 eythian misc/maintenance/ --run
23:04 eythian that one (from install.debian)
23:04 emery yes
23:04 emery i did
23:04 emery i think it came back with an error though
23:04 eythian well, that may be a clue
23:04 emery let me check
23:05 emery where do i run it? anywhere?
23:05 eythian run it from the base Koha directory
23:05 emery where is that?
23:05 wahanui somebody said that was the problem
23:05 eythian wahanui: forget that
23:05 wahanui eythian: I forgot that
23:06 eythian it's wherever you installed koha to.
23:06 emery lol
23:06 eythian It contains a directory called 'C4' amongst a lot of others.
23:06 emery i may have forrgotten that, where is the default?
23:06 eythian I don't think there is a default
23:06 emery oh
23:06 emery i will go looking then
23:06 eythian what does 'locate C4' say?
23:07 emery /usr/share/koha/lib
23:07 emery is that where i run it then
23:08 emery or do i run it in /usr/share/koha
23:08 eythian hmm. maybe. What does 'locate' say?
23:10 emery /proc/4429/cwd/bin/maintenance
23:10 eythian erm. Maybe something else, too?
23:11 emery there is 2 other ones, but they are in the downloaded folder
23:12 emery when i downloaded koha, i put it in koha-3.4
23:12 emery they are both in there
23:12 emery then that other one is
23:12 emery /proc/4429/cwd/bin/maintenance
23:12 eythian the proc one is not useful, what are the other ones?
23:13 emery /home/emery/Desktop/koha-3.04
23:13 emery and
23:13 emery /home/emery/Desktop/koha-3.04
23:13 eythian hmm, well, it can run from there.
23:13 emery ok
23:15 emery command not found
23:16 eythian pastebin the contents of /home/emery/Desktop/koha-3.04
23:16 emery i ran it with perl in front and it worked
23:16 emery no error
23:16 eythian ah OK. It did say something though?
23:16 emery nope
23:17 eythian like, it wasn't all blank?
23:17 emery i pushed enter, then 3 seconds later emery@koha-server:`/ came back up
23:17 eythian it should finish saying "123 records processed"
23:17 emery nope
23:17 emery should i use sudo?
23:18 eythian no
23:18 emery should i run it as koha?
23:18 emery or anyuser would be fine
23:19 eythian what does 'echo $KOHA_CONF' say?
23:19 eythian this may be blank
23:19 eythian any user should be OK
23:19 emery /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml
23:19 eythian ah right
23:20 emery good bad? =:s
23:20 eythian good.
23:20 emery =:)
23:21 eythian I can't see anything that would cause that script to not return anything though (well, unless you used --silent, which I presume you didn't)
23:21 emery nope
23:21 eythian try it without --run, it should give you a help message.
23:21 eythian can you paste your exact command line?
23:22 emery - where   use this to limit mods to selected biblios
23:22 emery no
23:22 emery --run preform update
23:22 eythian wait
23:22 eythian so it did give you a help message
23:22 emery -- help or -h show this message
23:22 emery ^^ is what it printed
23:23 emery =:s
23:23 eythian ah, I got confused above.
23:23 emery ok
23:23 emery it says after you should re-index zebra
23:24 eythian yeah. but it should also say how many records it processed when you run it
23:24 emery it doesn't, i will try again
23:24 eythian OK.
23:24 emery yeah. nope
23:25 eythian try it with '-where blarg' at the end. This should cause it to fail. I want to see exactly how it fails.
23:25 emery ok
23:26 emery it just shows the help text agian
23:26 eythian copy and paste your exact command line
23:26 emery i cannot
23:26 emery diffrent computer
23:26 emery did you want me to manuly do it?
23:26 eythian that won't make things easier at all
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23:27 eythian yeah. and be exact.
23:27 emery my ubuntu cannot run jave:(
23:27 emery my ubuntu cannot run java:(
23:27 emery ok
23:27 eythian what do you need java for?
23:28 emery to run the chat, whatever add-on it trys to install when i go to here on it it says it cant run it
23:28 eythian I think ubuntu comes with an IRC client.
23:28 emery emery@koha-server:~/Desktop/koha​-3.04.04/misc/maintenance$ perl -- run
23:29 eythian huh. what does 'echo $PERL5LIB' return?
23:29 eythian wait
23:29 eythian you have a space in there after the --
23:29 eythian that shouldn't be there.
23:29 emery oh
23:29 emery i dont in the code :)
23:30 eythian ok
23:30 emery /usr/share/koha/lib
23:32 eythian hmm, that looks OK too
23:33 emery that is good and bad
23:33 emery bad - does not help
23:33 emery good - is not broken :)
23:33 eythian yeah
23:33 emery is there a way you can virtuly connect to my computer?
23:34 emery like logmein or something?
23:34 eythian I really don't have time for that, I'm supposed to be working.
23:34 emery hah, lol
23:35 emery would anyone else be interested in that?
23:35 emery maybe rangi is still here
23:35 eythian rangi is also at work
23:35 wahanui okay, eythian.
23:35 rangi yeah, im working to
23:35 rangi you could hire someone
23:35 emery when do you stop working?
23:36 rangi ok, to be brutally honest
23:36 rangi ive invested all the time in this i am going to for free
23:36 rangi there are too many other things to do
23:36 emery ahh
23:36 emery ok
23:36 emery what about eythian
23:37 eythian much the same situation really, I'm pretty much stumped.
23:37 emery yes, but you could try things if you could see my computer / set up, yes?
23:37 eythian I'm sure you can find someone with Linuxy experience locally who'll be able to do it.
23:38 emery i dont :o
23:38 eythian I fully expect that that would take hours to set up.
23:38 emery and it is not linux problem, i think it is something to do eith koha, wich they would not know how to fix
23:38 emery i am fine with tha
23:38 emery i am fine with that
23:39 eythian I'm not though. I have plenty of people who are paying me to do their Koha stuff that I need to attend to too.
23:39 emery :(
23:41 emery i will try mailing list
23:41 emery goodbye, thanks for your help :)
23:41 eythian my suggestion is to keep poking at zebra, and looking at your database. Make sure that koha can see records, even if it can't search.
23:41 emery it can see records
23:41 emery check in / check out work
23:41 emery if i put n item on a list
23:41 eythian Ensure that there is actually something there that you're searching for.
23:41 emery opac can see it
23:41 eythian ah OK
23:42 emery yes, i have made sure that works :)
23:42 emery bye
23:42 eythian and double-check the reindexing.
23:42 eythian It's 99% certain the issue is around the zebra setup.
23:42 emery probably
23:43 eythian if you post to the list, include as much detail as you possibly can.
23:43 eythian You can't include too much.
23:43 eythian output from commands, and so on.
23:43 eythian including the exact command lines you used.
23:43 eythian It may be someone else has some inspiration from it.
23:46 emery ok
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