| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:20 |
|
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| 01:03 |
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| 01:05 |
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| 02:14 |
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| 02:15 |
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| 02:31 |
|
mtj |
heres a random Q.... |
| 02:32 |
|
mtj |
does anyone know where the equiv. of http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=22_to_30 is? |
| 02:32 |
|
mtj |
i need to do a koha2 -> koha3 upgrade, and that link is the only doco i can find |
| 02:33 |
|
mtj |
... and it no longer exists :/ |
| 02:33 |
|
mtj |
. |
| 02:34 |
|
mtj |
i wonder if any ptfs/liblime folk might be able to find an old backup of the wiki.koha.org database... |
| 02:35 |
|
mtj |
... i could find that lost important information, and paste it into the new kc.org wiki |
| 02:35 |
|
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druthb joined #koha |
| 02:36 |
|
mtj |
hmm, perhaps i could send that request to the Koha general mailing-list |
| 02:36 |
|
druthb |
o/ |
| 02:36 |
|
mtj |
heya druthb |
| 02:36 |
|
mtj |
got a copy of the wiki.koha.org db somewhere ;) |
| 02:37 |
|
druthb |
nopers. |
| 02:37 |
|
rangi |
im pretty sure i shifted that already |
| 02:37 |
|
mtj |
im looking for this page -> http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=22_to_30 |
| 02:37 |
|
rangi |
http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Upgrading_2.2 |
| 02:37 |
|
druthb |
rangi++ |
| 02:38 |
|
mtj |
bah , was searching on '22_to_30' |
| 02:38 |
|
mtj |
thanks chris :) |
| 02:39 |
|
rangi |
mtj: what you should do |
| 02:39 |
|
mtj |
facepalm, its the 1st results using 'upgrading' :/ |
| 02:39 |
|
mtj |
;p |
| 02:39 |
|
rangi |
http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4518 |
| 02:39 |
|
huginn |
Bug 4518: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti, ASSIGNED , Enhance 2.2 to 3.0 scripts |
| 02:40 |
|
rangi |
thats a patch that fixes/enhances the 2.2 to 3.0 scripts |
| 02:41 |
|
mtj |
oooh, thanks! |
| 02:42 |
|
mtj |
im upgrading a koha thats so old.. it doesnt have a 'version' syspref value :p |
| 02:42 |
|
rangi |
thats pretty old |
| 02:43 |
|
rangi |
theosophical society? |
| 02:43 |
|
mtj |
which is a 1st for me :) , its a 2.0.x (i think) |
| 02:43 |
|
mtj |
yeah :) |
| 02:43 |
|
rangi |
ahh ull need to go to 2.2.x first then 3.0.0 then 3.2 then 3.4 etc |
| 02:43 |
|
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Oak joined #koha |
| 02:43 |
|
mtj |
so far, so good |
| 02:43 |
|
rangi |
cool |
| 02:43 |
|
druthb |
Hi, Oak. :) |
| 02:43 |
|
* Oak |
waves |
| 02:43 |
|
Oak |
heya druthb :) |
| 02:44 |
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ronald left #koha |
| 02:44 |
|
mtj |
rangi: yeah, the 2.0 to 2.2 bit... and quick ideas there? |
| 02:44 |
|
rangi |
i forget how i did that |
| 02:44 |
|
rangi |
been a long time |
| 02:45 |
|
mtj |
ive been looking at a 2.2.9 repo, but cant find any 2.0->2.2 doco in it |
| 02:45 |
|
mtj |
yeah :) |
| 02:45 |
|
mtj |
all good - i can wing it, if i cant find any info |
| 02:47 |
|
rangi |
yeah i cant remember |
| 02:48 |
|
mtj |
ahh, here they are :) |
| 02:49 |
|
mtj |
http://git.koha-community.org/[…]438b2aad977a17cf2 |
| 02:49 |
|
rangi |
ahh thats easy |
| 02:49 |
|
rangi |
./koha.upgrade |
| 02:52 |
|
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| 02:53 |
|
mtj |
http://git.koha-community.org/[…]438b2aad977a17cf2 |
| 02:53 |
|
mtj |
w00t |
| 02:53 |
|
mtj |
heya ronald |
| 02:53 |
|
mtj |
mtj <- mason :) |
| 03:07 |
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| 03:09 |
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samerrill joined #koha |
| 03:10 |
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Oak left #koha |
| 03:17 |
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| 03:21 |
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| 03:31 |
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| 03:33 |
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| 04:03 |
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| 04:13 |
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| 04:13 |
|
druthb |
o/ |
| 04:13 |
|
Oak |
druthb :) |
| 04:14 |
|
druthb |
hi again, Oak. :) |
| 04:14 |
|
rangi |
http://www.eclecticmethod.net/[…]07/the-dark-side/ |
| 04:15 |
|
druthb |
Interesting lil dubstep... |
| 04:29 |
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| 04:39 |
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| 04:55 |
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| 05:04 |
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| 05:04 |
|
francharb |
hello all |
| 05:06 |
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| 05:07 |
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| 05:08 |
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| 05:54 |
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| 05:59 |
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| 06:02 |
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| 06:12 |
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cait joined #koha |
| 06:19 |
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cait |
hi #koha |
| 06:22 |
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| 06:26 |
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| 06:27 |
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| 06:43 |
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| 06:43 |
|
reiveune |
hello |
| 06:48 |
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| 06:50 |
|
julian |
hello #koha |
| 06:52 |
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hdl joined #koha |
| 07:30 |
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matts_away is now known as matts |
| 07:37 |
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| 07:43 |
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| 07:45 |
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| 07:51 |
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| 07:52 |
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| 07:54 |
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Irma left #koha |
| 08:03 |
|
jenkins_koha |
Starting build 320 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED) |
| 08:09 |
|
huginn |
New commit(s) kohagit: Fix for Bug 6573 - Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]1e04fad664ba0503f> / Revised fix for Bug 6133 - Authorised values administration, warn for modifs <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]c4f51abec08cc5a9f> / Bug 5197: add < > token to notices <http://git.koha-commu |
| 08:25 |
|
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| 08:36 |
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| 08:46 |
|
jenkins_koha |
Project Koha_master build #320: SUCCESS in 43 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/320/ |
| 08:46 |
|
jenkins_koha |
* ian.walls: Bug 5197: add <<today>> token to notices |
| 08:46 |
|
jenkins_koha |
* oleonard: Revised fix for Bug 6133 - Authorised values administration, warn for modifs |
| 08:46 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5197 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , today's date on notices |
| 08:46 |
|
jenkins_koha |
* oleonard: Fix for Bug 6573 - Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength |
| 08:46 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6133 trivial, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Authorised values administration, warn for modifs |
| 08:46 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6573 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength |
| 08:56 |
|
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| 09:31 |
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| 09:34 |
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| 09:35 |
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davi joined #koha |
| 09:36 |
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| 10:09 |
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samerrill joined #koha |
| 10:23 |
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| 10:24 |
|
slef |
hi all |
| 10:25 |
|
kf |
hi slef |
| 10:26 |
|
slef |
anyone any idea about kohacon11 meeting? |
| 10:26 |
|
kf |
sorry, no |
| 10:28 |
|
rangi |
hi slef and kf |
| 10:32 |
|
kf |
hi rangi :) |
| 10:32 |
|
slef |
hi rangi |
| 10:32 |
|
kf |
can you bring wahanui back? |
| 10:32 |
|
rangi |
nope |
| 10:32 |
|
kf |
oh :( |
| 10:33 |
|
slef |
gone for good or just waiting on eythian? |
| 10:33 |
|
rangi |
well i could, but id rather just wait for eythian he was working on some plugins |
| 10:33 |
|
kf |
so he is not dead, only sleeping |
| 10:33 |
|
kf |
that's good :) |
| 10:45 |
|
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druthb joined #koha |
| 10:45 |
|
druthb |
o/ |
| 10:46 |
|
rangi |
hi druthb |
| 10:46 |
|
druthb |
hi, rangi! :) |
| 11:23 |
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| 11:29 |
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samerrill left #koha |
| 11:29 |
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samerrill joined #koha |
| 11:31 |
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JesseM joined #koha |
| 11:32 |
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jwagner joined #koha |
| 11:35 |
|
JesseM |
Good Morning |
| 11:48 |
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| 12:06 |
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samerrill joined #koha |
| 12:15 |
|
kf |
morning JesseM |
| 12:16 |
|
JesseM |
Hi kf |
| 12:17 |
|
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talljoy joined #koha |
| 12:17 |
|
kf |
hi talljoy |
| 12:17 |
|
talljoy |
good morning |
| 12:23 |
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| 12:26 |
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samerrill left #koha |
| 12:29 |
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magnus_away is now known as magnuse |
| 12:29 |
|
magnuse |
kia ora #koha |
| 12:31 |
|
druthb |
kia ora, magnuse. :) |
| 12:32 |
|
magnuse |
hiya druthb |
| 12:47 |
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oleonard joined #koha |
| 12:48 |
|
oleonard |
Must bug the person at this library who blocked IRC |
| 12:48 |
|
magnuse |
ouch |
| 13:01 |
|
kf |
hi magnuse :) |
| 13:01 |
|
magnuse |
guten tag kf |
| 13:07 |
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| 13:13 |
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| 13:14 |
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| 13:14 |
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| 13:15 |
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| 13:21 |
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magnuse is now known as magnus_away |
| 13:38 |
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| 13:48 |
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matts is now known as matts_away |
| 13:49 |
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| 13:50 |
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matts_away is now known as matts |
| 13:52 |
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| 13:54 |
|
library_systems_guy |
once a patch has been signed off on how long does it usually take to get pushed to maser? |
| 13:55 |
|
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SirDekar joined #koha |
| 13:58 |
|
kf |
until qa manager signs off |
| 13:58 |
|
library_systems_guy |
ahh |
| 13:58 |
|
slef |
library_systems_guy: I'm not sure it's an easy thing to average :-/ |
| 13:58 |
|
kf |
then rangi pushes them very quick |
| 13:59 |
|
library_systems_guy |
gotcha |
| 13:59 |
|
library_systems_guy |
i was just curious |
| 13:59 |
|
slef |
http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]i-bin/progress.pl might give some idea of trends |
| 13:59 |
|
sekjal |
small patches, things that touch the templates only, tend to be quicker to push through QA because they're easier to test; you either see it works or it doesn't |
| 13:59 |
|
slef |
looks like a couple of days |
| 13:59 |
|
sekjal |
anything mucking around in C4/Circulation, Reserves or Search... much more in depth |
| 14:00 |
|
library_systems_guy |
right right...so my patch that messes with xslt should tale some time |
| 14:00 |
|
kf |
it's your first patch, right? :) |
| 14:00 |
|
kf |
history is waiting :) |
| 14:01 |
|
kf |
meaning - we can add another name to the list of that gets through |
| 14:01 |
|
library_systems_guy |
third actually...but the first two were like id patches lol |
| 14:01 |
|
kf |
oh |
| 14:01 |
|
library_systems_guy |
i think im already in there :D |
| 14:01 |
|
kf |
:) |
| 14:01 |
|
library_systems_guy |
i felt that if i was going to make the list it might as well be for something cool |
| 14:32 |
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gmcharlt left #koha |
| 14:33 |
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gmcharlt joined #koha |
| 14:38 |
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rhcl joined #koha |
| 14:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
good morning |
| 14:38 |
|
kf |
good morning liz |
| 14:41 |
|
Agent_Dani |
Hi wizzyrea |
| 14:41 |
|
jcamins_away |
Hello, wizzyrea, kf, and Agent_Dani. |
| 14:42 |
|
|
jcamins_away is now known as jcamins |
| 14:42 |
|
kf |
hi jcamins :) |
| 14:44 |
|
druthb |
hi, jcamins. :) |
| 14:45 |
|
jcamins |
Hi, druthb! |
| 14:45 |
|
jcamins |
druthb++ # because it's after breakfast, and she does something amazing before breakfast every day :) |
| 14:46 |
|
kf |
:) |
| 14:48 |
|
* druthb |
blushes |
| 14:48 |
|
talljoy |
I don't see any blushing. |
| 14:48 |
|
* talljoy |
ducks |
| 14:48 |
|
druthb |
no fair, with talljoy sitting next to me. |
| 14:52 |
|
jcamins |
Hi, talljoy! |
| 14:53 |
|
talljoy |
hello! |
| 14:55 |
|
* kf |
whispers to talljoy: can you poke her from me? |
| 15:01 |
|
* Agent_Dani |
fences photos of druthb blushing. *whistles innocently* |
| 15:02 |
|
druthb |
:P |
| 15:09 |
|
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miguel joined #koha |
| 15:10 |
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julian left #koha |
| 15:11 |
|
miguel |
Hola, hay alguién para la reunión en el IRC de es-koha-community ? |
| 15:11 |
|
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matts is now known as matts_away |
| 15:16 |
|
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wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_away |
| 15:17 |
|
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wizzyrea_away is now known as wizzyrea |
| 15:22 |
|
rhcl |
wizzy is dizzy |
| 15:22 |
|
|
wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_away |
| 15:22 |
|
druthb |
lol |
| 15:23 |
|
rhcl |
Miguel: I don't think there is an English language meeting scheduled, I don't know if there is something scheduled on the Spanish language side or not. |
| 15:24 |
|
|
wizzyrea_away is now known as wizzyrea |
| 15:25 |
|
miguel |
thanks, I think we scheduled a meeting for today, but ... |
| 15:29 |
|
SirDekar |
hi people, I've got a question. UNIMARC or MARC21 which is better or what's the difference? |
| 15:29 |
|
reiveune |
bye |
| 15:29 |
|
kf |
where are you located? |
| 15:29 |
|
SirDekar |
me? |
| 15:29 |
|
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reiveune left #koha |
| 15:29 |
|
kf |
yes :) |
| 15:29 |
|
SirDekar |
Panama, Center of America |
| 15:30 |
|
kf |
hm |
| 15:31 |
|
slef |
SirDekar: look at what the libraries you want to share with use. |
| 15:32 |
|
kf |
slef: good answer :) |
| 15:32 |
|
kf |
both are bibliographic data formats |
| 15:32 |
|
slef |
kf: until we figure out translating between them, at least. |
| 15:33 |
|
kf |
there is a pending patch from marcelr |
| 15:33 |
|
kf |
but if you want to import data too... |
| 15:33 |
|
kf |
hm, export |
| 15:33 |
|
kf |
it would help importing them via z39.50 - but no complete translation for all fields probably |
| 15:33 |
|
kf |
but export works only with one format |
| 15:37 |
|
kf |
ok, and now I stop confusing people and go book my hotel for the presentation next week |
| 15:37 |
|
jcamins |
Argh! I just spent 45 minutes on a complicated item, only to have the computer crash when I tried to save the record. |
| 15:37 |
|
kf |
ouch |
| 15:37 |
|
* jcamins |
remembers all over again why he hates the Koha cataloging interface. |
| 15:37 |
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| 15:39 |
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| 15:39 |
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| 15:40 |
|
library_systems_guy |
so i was just looking at rangi's place that he works...any correlation to http://www.catalystframework.org |
| 15:41 |
|
* jcamins |
had never forgotten why he hates embedding authids in bib records. |
| 15:44 |
|
wizzyrea |
not related, afaik |
| 15:45 |
|
library_systems_guy |
aww...thats disappointing |
| 15:46 |
|
library_systems_guy |
although not surprising really...i guess if they were related Koha would probably be based on that framework |
| 15:46 |
|
* wizzyrea |
questions that claim |
| 15:48 |
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| 15:50 |
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Guillaume left #koha |
| 15:57 |
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Johnindy joined #koha |
| 16:00 |
|
huginn |
New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6577] Columns misaligned on serials search results <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6577> |
| 16:00 |
|
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| 16:37 |
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| 16:43 |
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| 16:59 |
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| 17:17 |
|
hdl |
jcamins: can you elaborate ? |
| 17:18 |
|
jcamins |
hdl: elaborate on what? |
| 17:18 |
|
hdl |
jcamins had never forgotten why he hates embedding authids in bib records. |
| 17:18 |
|
jcamins |
Ah. |
| 17:18 |
|
hdl |
because of linking required ? |
| 17:18 |
|
jcamins |
Right. |
| 17:19 |
|
hdl |
mmmm only with ids can the relation be accurate imho. |
| 17:19 |
|
cait |
that's what I keep saying, but he doesn't listen to me :P |
| 17:19 |
|
jcamins |
You have to either create all your authority records in advance, or you have to allow the system to create them automatically for you. |
| 17:20 |
|
hdl |
But this is a UNIMARC and endless discussion. |
| 17:20 |
|
jcamins |
If there were a script to repair the damage after the fact, that would be one thing. |
| 17:20 |
|
jcamins |
But there isn't. |
| 17:20 |
|
cait |
and jcamins - didn't we agree that we need to improve the tools managing th elinks instead of killing the authids? ;) |
| 17:20 |
|
jcamins |
cait: we agreed it would be a good idea. |
| 17:20 |
|
hdl |
link_authorities.... doesnot work ? |
| 17:20 |
|
cait |
hehe |
| 17:20 |
|
jcamins |
hdl: no, of course not. |
| 17:20 |
|
hdl |
for you ? |
| 17:21 |
|
hdl |
I thought that dom indexing was the heaven for marc21. |
| 17:21 |
|
cait |
it works for us - but we don#t use the linking scripts |
| 17:21 |
|
cait |
it's not generally broken i would say |
| 17:21 |
|
jcamins |
hdl: the matching algorithm is very inaccurate. |
| 17:22 |
|
cait |
have to run and buy food :) |
| 17:22 |
|
jcamins |
In particular, it doesn't match things with multiple subdivisions. |
| 17:28 |
|
cait |
@wunder Konstanz |
| 17:28 |
|
huginn |
cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 26.4�C (7:25 PM CEST on July 12, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.73 in 1006.7 hPa (Steady). |
| 17:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
Did something change on the circ screen that would make it take a lot longer on patrons with lots of checkouts? |
| 17:28 |
|
jcamins |
@wunder 11375 |
| 17:28 |
|
huginn |
jcamins: The current temperature in Howard Beach, Queens, New York is 33.7�C (1:28 PM EDT on July 12, 2011). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1003.9 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 9 PM EDT this evening... |
| 17:29 |
|
jcamins |
wizzyrea: did you turn on the sorter things? |
| 17:29 |
|
wizzyrea |
is that a syspref |
| 17:29 |
|
wizzyrea |
? |
| 17:29 |
|
wizzyrea |
and it's new? |
| 17:29 |
|
wizzyrea |
as of 3.4? |
| 17:29 |
|
|
thd-away is now known as thd |
| 17:29 |
|
cait |
I think it's new |
| 17:30 |
|
cait |
but it was there before, the sorter thing, you can turn it off now |
| 17:30 |
|
cait |
perhaps the relatives thing? |
| 17:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
hmm tablesort for circ is off |
| 17:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
could be the relatives thing... sec |
| 17:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
heh... |
| 17:33 |
|
wizzyrea |
41 checkouts, no relatives, just took 40 seconds |
| 17:33 |
|
wizzyrea |
to load the checkout screen |
| 17:33 |
|
wizzyrea |
hmm |
| 17:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
well soemthing has changed, because the same thing didn't happen in 3.2 |
| 17:38 |
|
cait |
:( |
| 17:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
or at least, it only kicked in at a much higher level of borrows/user |
| 17:38 |
|
cait |
your production system? |
| 17:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
ya |
| 17:38 |
|
cait |
ouch :( |
| 17:39 |
|
wizzyrea |
ah sok. I've filed a ticket and the smarties will look into it. ;) |
| 17:39 |
|
cait |
perhaps something on server side? |
| 17:39 |
|
wizzyrea |
could be |
| 17:44 |
|
thd |
Has anyone had difficulty uploading files to the wiki? |
| 17:44 |
|
wizzyrea |
I thought that was fixed |
| 17:45 |
|
thd |
wizzyrea, yes when I looked last week I could find no configuration obstacle to uploading common file types. |
| 17:45 |
|
thd |
wizzyrea: Only specific file types are allowed as a sensible security measure. |
| 17:45 |
|
wizzyrea |
sure |
| 17:46 |
|
wizzyrea |
but you're not able to? |
| 17:46 |
|
cait |
I think it was Brooke who had problems - I never tried it really |
| 17:46 |
|
thd |
Brooke mentioned that there had been a problem. |
| 17:47 |
|
|
juan_sieira_ joined #koha |
| 17:47 |
|
thd |
There had definitely been a problem with the category assignments which I have mostly fixed. |
| 17:47 |
|
cait |
thd++ |
| 17:47 |
|
|
hdl left #koha |
| 17:47 |
|
cait |
perhaps have a list of allowed file types somewhere? |
| 17:47 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt had upgraded the wiki software but some extensions needed upgrading in consequence. |
| 17:48 |
|
thd |
cait++ |
| 17:48 |
|
thd |
The list is probably not long enough. |
| 17:48 |
|
|
juan_sieira left #koha |
| 17:48 |
|
cait |
yes, perhaps something like .mrc or something missing |
| 17:49 |
|
|
miguel left #koha |
| 17:49 |
|
cait |
not sure what Brooke wanted to upload |
| 17:51 |
|
thd |
I just added mrc. |
| 17:51 |
|
thd |
We now have pdf, csv, and mrc as additional file types. |
| 17:52 |
|
cait |
what are the others? |
| 17:52 |
|
cait |
I think graphics? |
| 17:52 |
|
thd |
I do not know what the base list of already allowed file types is. |
| 17:52 |
|
cait |
ah ok |
| 17:52 |
|
thd |
Yes graphics file types are certainly in the base list. |
| 17:53 |
|
thd |
The directory in which they are stored is images. |
| 17:53 |
|
cait |
I wonder if we should add odt |
| 17:53 |
|
thd |
All uploads are stored in the images directory as far as I can tell. |
| 17:54 |
|
thd |
I just added odt. |
| 17:54 |
|
cait |
cool :) |
| 17:54 |
|
cait |
might be good for checklists or other things you might want to print and edit |
| 17:54 |
|
cait |
edit in print... in that sequence |
| 17:58 |
|
|
miguel joined #koha |
| 18:09 |
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talljoy1 joined #koha |
| 18:16 |
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talljoy left #koha |
| 18:16 |
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cait left #koha |
| 18:16 |
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cait joined #koha |
| 18:18 |
|
jcamins |
Does anyone know of any IRC channels where people who collate old books hang out? |
| 18:18 |
|
cait |
hm |
| 18:22 |
|
* wizzyrea |
mutters |
| 18:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
can someone release that poor message I just sent to the koha list please and thanks? |
| 18:24 |
|
jcamins |
hdl just left. |
| 18:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
never mind I just re-sent it |
| 18:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
my sig pissed it off. |
| 18:26 |
|
* wizzyrea |
prepares for the poostorm that message will kick off. |
| 18:26 |
|
* jcamins |
eagerly awaits the message. |
| 18:27 |
|
jcamins |
This is a really weird book. Leaves C1 and C6 were both bound in backwards. |
| 18:29 |
|
|
bigbrovar left #koha |
| 18:31 |
|
* jcamins |
doesn't see what the problem with that message is. |
| 18:33 |
|
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Soupermanito joined #koha |
| 18:44 |
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SirDekar left #koha |
| 18:51 |
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SirDekar joined #koha |
| 18:55 |
|
cait |
wizzyrea: looks good for me too |
| 18:55 |
|
wizzyrea |
there are just a lot of politics surrounding the vendor list. |
| 18:56 |
|
wizzyrea |
(it has a tangential relationship to "money," thus people get really excited about it) |
| 18:56 |
|
wizzyrea |
(and I'm sure someone will call me out for saying it's tangential, because in capitalism the relationship to money is direct!) |
| 18:57 |
|
cait |
hm |
| 18:58 |
|
cait |
I don't think money was my reason to be excited about it :) |
| 19:07 |
|
* slef |
fires up the poo cannon |
| 19:07 |
|
* wizzyrea |
gets on her poo resistant outfit |
| 19:08 |
|
cait |
oh cool |
| 19:08 |
|
cait |
they are playing a song in the radio rangi showed me months ago |
| 19:08 |
|
* druthb |
gets out a scrub brush. |
| 19:08 |
|
* cait |
hums along |
| 19:09 |
|
slef |
wizzyrea: mainly, where has "legitimate" gone from http://koha-community.org/supp[…]ow-to-get-listed/ ? |
| 19:12 |
|
wizzyrea |
slef: that's the wording that has been there since the last discussion on vendor listing took place |
| 19:12 |
|
jcamins |
Ooooooooh. A Grolier binding. :D :D :D |
| 19:12 |
|
wizzyrea |
that happened.... 5 may 2010 |
| 19:12 |
|
wizzyrea |
Legitimate has never been on that page. |
| 19:13 |
|
slef |
wizzyrea: yeah rereading the IRC archives, it looks like gmcharlt dropped the word between everyone voting for his suggestion and him writing it on pastebin. |
| 19:13 |
|
wizzyrea |
I'd take that up at the next meeting then. |
| 19:13 |
|
slef |
wizzyrea: so would you list any old fraudsters on that site then? (Personally - and I don't know if I have access - I would not act.) |
| 19:14 |
|
wizzyrea |
the requirements that I follow are the ones agreed upon by the community |
| 19:14 |
|
wizzyrea |
the ones stated on the web page |
| 19:14 |
|
slef |
no, they're not |
| 19:15 |
|
slef |
they're the ones you were given, though |
| 19:15 |
|
wizzyrea |
then blaming me is putting the blame in the wrong place. |
| 19:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
I can understand why this situation is upsetting for you, and I"m willing to hold off on listing until the requirements have been discussed. As it stands though, there aren't any real barriers to listing. |
| 19:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
not to mention the fact that by practicing selection, you then do bear some responsibility should a vendor not live up to the standards of their customers. |
| 19:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
"you said this vendor was good" |
| 19:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
by disclaiming all of them -- you don't have to worry about that. |
| 19:19 |
|
wizzyrea |
so in my mind |
| 19:19 |
|
slef |
I don't believe that's accurate or ethical and I don't think it's legal in the UK. We have concepts like "attractive nuisance" and I'm surprised if the US doesn't, given how the US DHS seizes domains. |
| 19:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
we either take that responsibility seriously and offer a certification (which would likely trim the list) or we list based on basic requirements |
| 19:20 |
|
slef |
Certainly in the UK, webmasters have been punished for failing to remove links to illegal enterprises from websites they ran voluntarily in a timely fashion. |
| 19:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
you have a keyword there |
| 19:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
illegal |
| 19:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
"distateful to me" isn't "illegal" |
| 19:21 |
|
slef |
read the last bullet on http://lists.koha-community.or[…]-July/035866.html |
| 19:21 |
|
slef |
it was part of my objection |
| 19:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
(failure to respond to that particular objection is why they're not listed already, fwiw) |
| 19:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
(you'll note that they're not listed) |
| 19:22 |
|
slef |
(ok, but it feels like we're into a grey area here) |
| 19:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
this particular request is extremely grey |
| 19:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
because there is a lot of interpersonal stuff around it |
| 19:23 |
|
slef |
yeah, it plays into two other disputes which I'm not handling |
| 19:24 |
|
wizzyrea |
I personally don't like all of the personal jabs, it could have been a lot more professional. |
| 19:24 |
|
slef |
but I'm not going to let him game me out of being the co-op's koha-community liaison... I'm already not our membership manager nor our data controller because of those disputes. |
| 19:25 |
|
|
owen-away joined #koha |
| 19:25 |
|
slef |
Yeah, I decided not to respond to most of those because I don't see what good it would do. |
| 19:25 |
|
|
owen-away is now known as oleonard |
| 19:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
I respect you greatly for your abstinence from poo-flinging. ;) |
| 19:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
(I mean that) |
| 19:27 |
|
slef |
all the EDI-related dispute is more debatable... I guess we should have held payment until it was in master. Oh well, live and learn. |
| 19:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
the point re: client's who didn't hire the company, would need proof |
| 19:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
clients... i have an apostrophe happy finger. |
| 19:28 |
|
slef |
how can anyone prove something didn't happen? |
| 19:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
he will just need to prove that it did. |
| 19:30 |
|
slef |
hmmm... not sure how that will play |
| 19:30 |
|
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Johnindy_ joined #koha |
| 19:30 |
|
slef |
you do know he's reading this BTW? |
| 19:30 |
|
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bigbrovar joined #koha |
| 19:30 |
|
wizzyrea |
I do |
| 19:30 |
|
* wizzyrea |
waves |
| 19:38 |
|
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Johnindy left #koha |
| 19:41 |
|
rangi |
morning |
| 19:41 |
|
oleonard |
Hi rangi, long time no see |
| 19:42 |
|
rangi |
took an irc mental health break :) |
| 19:43 |
|
slef |
I've met NateC haven't it? |
| 19:44 |
|
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francharb left #koha |
| 19:45 |
|
oleonard |
Were you and he at KohaCon in NZ slef? |
| 19:46 |
|
sekjal |
slef: yes, you met him at KohaCon '11 |
| 19:47 |
|
rangi |
he probably did card tricks for ya :) |
| 19:48 |
|
slef |
he looks nothing like the pic on the bywater website |
| 19:48 |
|
slef |
oleonard: yes |
| 19:49 |
|
oleonard |
Can someone please host KohaCon 2012 closer to me please? Thanks. |
| 19:49 |
|
|
cait left #koha |
| 19:49 |
|
jcamins |
oleonard++ |
| 19:49 |
|
wizzyrea |
closer like -- norway? |
| 19:49 |
|
oleonard |
I'll take it. |
| 19:50 |
|
slef |
oleonard: UK is already on http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]als_for_KohaCon12 but still lots to do |
| 19:50 |
|
slef |
I think we're most likely to go for London or Edinburgh - which would people prefer? |
| 19:51 |
|
* jcamins |
loves Edinburgh, but London is close enough to Oxford to detour for a research trip. |
| 19:51 |
|
jcamins |
So... |
| 19:51 |
|
jcamins |
edinburgh++ |
| 19:51 |
|
jcamins |
lond++ |
| 19:51 |
|
jcamins |
Let me try that again. |
| 19:51 |
|
jcamins |
london++ |
| 19:51 |
|
* library_systems_guy |
wants to gooo |
| 19:51 |
|
oleonard |
I'd prefer less expensive accomodations over more to do and see, FWIW |
| 19:52 |
|
rangi |
either works for me |
| 19:52 |
|
* druthb |
will tuck library_systems_guy into her duffel bag for the trip. |
| 19:52 |
|
slef |
oleonard: well, both those cities are big enough to have a range of accommodation prices and tons to do, so that doesn't narrow it down much ;-) |
| 19:52 |
|
library_systems_guy |
yayyy |
| 19:52 |
|
library_systems_guy |
thanks druthb :D |
| 19:53 |
|
sekjal |
london is closer to Legoland Winsor |
| 19:53 |
|
sekjal |
~Windsor |
| 19:54 |
|
|
stormy joined #koha |
| 19:54 |
|
slef |
let me know nearer the time if that's seriously a consideration and I'll keep an eye out for discount vouchers for you because it's eyewateringly expensive |
| 19:55 |
|
|
hdl joined #koha |
| 19:55 |
|
sekjal |
I've been to two of the others already, so I'm not sure if that's enough, or if I'm going for the complete set... will ponder on it |
| 19:56 |
|
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stormy left #koha |
| 19:57 |
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paul_acs joined #koha |
| 19:57 |
|
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paul_acs left #koha |
| 19:58 |
|
rangi |
slef: I could asl francois about how the mahara partners thing works |
| 19:58 |
|
rangi |
ask even |
| 19:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
we know his asl :P |
| 19:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
well you do probably |
| 19:58 |
|
rangi |
I think they do some kinda certification |
| 19:58 |
|
rangi |
kristina would know too |
| 20:00 |
|
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paul_acs joined #koha |
| 20:01 |
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rhcl joined #koha |
| 20:01 |
|
slef |
rangi: Please do, but isn't it a misnamed self-perpetuating group? |
| 20:01 |
|
rangi |
sure but aren't all certified ones |
| 20:02 |
|
rangi |
who certifies the certifiers |
| 20:02 |
|
rangi |
my stop bbiab |
| 20:02 |
|
rangi |
mahara not moodle btw |
| 20:02 |
|
wizzyrea |
^^ what he said |
| 20:02 |
|
slef |
the certifiers certify each other, peer-to-peer style |
| 20:02 |
|
slef |
yeah, moodle partners is pay-to-play, we've looked at that before |
| 20:03 |
|
|
paul_acs left #koha |
| 20:05 |
|
sekjal |
that sounds pretty neat |
| 20:06 |
|
sekjal |
more applications than just certification |
| 20:06 |
|
|
cait joined #koha |
| 20:06 |
|
slef |
OK, let me draft a page for it |
| 20:06 |
|
sekjal |
could be tied into karma, or other forms of "merit" |
| 20:07 |
|
sekjal |
do it for individuals, not organizations. an organization would just be a sum of it's members in whatever aspects we'd want to measure |
| 20:07 |
|
* wizzyrea |
has reservations about this, but will wait to see what you come up with |
| 20:07 |
|
|
talljoy1 left #koha |
| 20:09 |
|
cait |
hm I missed most of the discussion - but organization being the sum of their members... sounds not so good when you are small |
| 20:11 |
|
|
JesseM left #koha |
| 20:11 |
|
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collum left #koha |
| 20:12 |
|
* cait |
reads back now |
| 20:14 |
|
cait |
ah, missed a rangi appearance |
| 20:15 |
|
slef |
ah |
| 20:16 |
|
cait |
ah? |
| 20:16 |
|
slef |
I don't like certifying people. Someone can leave their organisation and lose access to their tools. |
| 20:17 |
|
slef |
I was thinking of fairly simple requirements like "we have tested the user interface of one of their Koha installations successfully". |
| 20:19 |
|
jcamins |
What's the point of that? It only costs $5 and twenty minutes to meet a requirement like that (get a super-cheap vps, and install Koha). |
| 20:20 |
|
slef |
ok, here's the other things I was thinking of: |
| 20:20 |
|
slef |
# we regard them as a contributor to Koha in the last year; |
| 20:20 |
|
slef |
# they have been recorded as attending a Koha meeting in the last year; |
| 20:20 |
|
slef |
# we have seen recent basic business information (an annual report or similar); and/or |
| 20:20 |
|
slef |
# the co-op's members agree we would do business with them. |
| 20:20 |
|
|
Soupermanito left #koha |
| 20:21 |
|
slef |
jcamins: the point is, many people would fail even that test. |
| 20:21 |
|
rangi |
back |
| 20:21 |
|
slef |
It's up to each certifier to decide their requirements, though. |
| 20:21 |
|
rangi |
still here cait :) |
| 20:22 |
|
cait |
:) |
| 20:22 |
|
|
juan_sieira joined #koha |
| 20:24 |
|
rangi |
ohh i see what you mean slef |
| 20:24 |
|
|
miguel left #koha |
| 20:24 |
|
|
juan_sieira_ left #koha |
| 20:24 |
|
jcamins |
Sounds like a lot of administrative work, for what seems to me limited benefit. |
| 20:24 |
|
rangi |
theres no standard, but catalyst might be certified by software.coop and bywater |
| 20:24 |
|
rangi |
bywater certified by equinox etc |
| 20:24 |
|
rangi |
is that what you were thinking? |
| 20:26 |
|
slef |
yeah, like we'd give bywater 4/5 almost immediately on request, as we keep hammering their public demo |
| 20:26 |
|
slef |
(don't remember if catalyst host a sample site sorry :) ) |
| 20:27 |
|
rangi |
demo.mykoha.co.nz |
| 20:27 |
|
slef |
then when the web of trust gets strong enough, I'd probably propose it's incorporated into the koha-community listing |
| 20:27 |
|
cait |
hm |
| 20:27 |
|
rangi |
i kinda like that |
| 20:29 |
|
slef |
jcamins: the benefit is informing potential customers. I feel it would be better to spend 30mins reviewing another support provider in exchange for them reviewing us, than to spend 30mins posting marketingspeak that any old fraudster could write. |
| 20:31 |
|
jcamins |
Hm. |
| 20:32 |
|
|
druthb left #koha |
| 20:34 |
|
|
miguel joined #koha |
| 20:36 |
|
rangi |
speaking of which, i again!!!! forgot to sign people gpg keys at ALA |
| 20:37 |
|
slef |
hey, did you sign mine at kohacon10? |
| 20:37 |
|
jcamins |
rangi: if it makes you feel any better, my GPG key expired. |
| 20:37 |
|
rangi |
nope i forgot that too |
| 20:37 |
|
slef |
ratbag |
| 20:37 |
|
* wizzyrea |
giggles |
| 20:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
"ratbag" |
| 20:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
that never gets old. |
| 20:38 |
|
* cait |
giggles with wizzyrea |
| 20:38 |
|
slef |
jcamins: heh, that's such a common FU that the co-op has an alarm on our keyring to remind us to extend them. |
| 20:38 |
|
jcamins |
slef: I never use my GPG key, which is why it expired. |
| 20:38 |
|
slef |
wizzyrea: that BBC sports presenter keeps using it. I really notice it now. |
| 20:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
hee! |
| 20:38 |
|
rangi |
jcamins: i sign the tags with them, and my RM mail |
| 20:38 |
|
slef |
jcamins: we have to use ours to get access to customer data. |
| 20:38 |
|
jcamins |
Actually, I should probably get a new key which is linked to my current e-mail address. |
| 20:39 |
|
rangi |
and yeah, the sysadmins wont give me passwords, in any form other than encrypted |
| 20:39 |
|
rangi |
which is good |
| 20:39 |
|
slef |
jcamins: err, update your expiry and add your new email address as a uid? |
| 20:39 |
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jcamins |
You can use GPG for authenticating into systems? |
| 20:39 |
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jcamins |
slef: oh, I thought the GPG key was linked irretrievably to the e-mail you used to set it up initially. |
| 20:39 |
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slef |
jcamins: no, but you can feed your ssh keys to gpg-agent. |
| 20:40 |
|
* jcamins |
puts it on my to-do list. |
| 20:40 |
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slef |
or at least NAFAIK |
| 20:41 |
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rangi |
when my user package is installed on a machine by a sysadmin, it pwgens a password, gpg encrypts that, and emails it to me (installs my ssh key too of course) so i can then login and do stuffs |
| 20:41 |
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rangi |
so i use my a lot |
| 20:42 |
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slef |
yeah, we log in with ssh keys but sudo is usually a pwgen password |
| 20:43 |
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slef |
jcamins: you seemed unconvinced about the mutual certs idea. Is that right? |
| 20:44 |
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jcamins |
slef: that is correct. |
| 20:44 |
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jcamins |
slef: not the peer-review/web-of-trust bit, just the idea of certifying Koha vendors in general. |
| 20:44 |
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slef |
jcamins: do you think there's a flaw in the implementation, or that the underlying problem doesn't need solving? |
| 20:44 |
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jcamins |
The latter. |
| 20:45 |
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jcamins |
There's also the problem of what do you do in a small ecosystem, if it turns out that one of the certifying authorities can't be trusted. |
| 20:45 |
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slef |
Do you think any market for lemons exists? |
| 20:46 |
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slef |
"The Market for Lemons: Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism" is a 1970 paper by the economist George Akerlof. It discusses information asymmetry, which occurs when the seller knows more about a product than the buyer. Akerlof, Michael Spence, and Joseph Stiglitz jointly received the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 2001 for their research related to... http://a.vu/w:The_Market_for_Lemons |
| 20:47 |
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slef |
If one of the CAs sucks, other providers will decertify or low-certify them. |
| 20:47 |
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| 20:48 |
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slef |
It may be possible one day to figure out a basis set of CAs along the lines of http://advogato.org/trust-metric.html seeds, but let's walk before we run. |
| 20:49 |
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jcamins |
There are currently 29 vendors listed. If you require three +1s, that means that each vendor is approving certifying an average of 10 other vendors. |
| 20:49 |
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slef |
bbl |
| 20:49 |
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jcamins |
That's a lot of work. |
| 20:50 |
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slef |
dang |
| 20:50 |
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| 20:50 |
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slef |
three +1s? |
| 20:51 |
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jcamins |
slef: I'm just making up a number there, but 3 is a nice number. |
| 20:51 |
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slef |
yeah, but what's a +1? |
| 20:51 |
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jcamins |
Votes in favor of certification. |
| 20:51 |
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slef |
oh no, it doesn't work like that |
| 20:52 |
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slef |
A certificate is either issued or it's not. No voting (unless the CA wants to vote on it). |
| 20:53 |
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slef |
Anyway, I was expecting to do 1 or 2 a month, which means certifying 10 might only take 5 months. |
| 20:54 |
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slef |
It's good to look at other people's stuff anyway. |
| 20:54 |
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slef |
Also, some of those 29 are probably stale or wouldn't request certs anyway. |
| 20:55 |
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slef |
I don't see there being a koha-community.org certificate. koha-community's big asset is being neutral. |
| 21:11 |
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rangi |
i like the idea of it not being a community cert, but purely a peer one, i kinda operates this way informally anyway |
| 21:11 |
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rangi |
there are support companies in the us id recommend, and ones i wouldnt, i just havent put that down on paper |
| 21:34 |
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| 21:42 |
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cait |
hmpf |
| 21:42 |
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rangi |
? |
| 21:43 |
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cait |
my little perl program doesn't work |
| 21:43 |
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jcamins |
Time for me to go home, since my server just went down. |
| 21:43 |
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jcamins |
Bye. |
| 21:43 |
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cait |
and it's too late to figure out why |
| 21:43 |
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jcamins is now known as jcamins_away |
| 21:43 |
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cait |
bye jared |
| 21:43 |
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rangi |
ah |
| 21:44 |
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cait |
probably a stupid thinking error somewhere |
| 21:44 |
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cait |
good night #koha :) |
| 21:45 |
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rangi |
night |
| 21:45 |
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Brooke |
kia ora |
| 23:49 |
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bg |
hi Brooke |
| 23:49 |
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Brooke |
0/ |
| 23:50 |
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rangi |
hi Brooke |
| 23:50 |
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Brooke |
:) |
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