IRC log for #koha, 2011-07-12

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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02:31 mtj heres a random Q....
02:32 mtj does anyone know where the equiv. of is?
02:32 mtj i need to do a koha2 -> koha3 upgrade, and that link is the only doco i can find
02:33 mtj ... and it no longer exists :/
02:33 mtj .
02:34 mtj i wonder if any ptfs/liblime folk might be able to find an old backup of the database...
02:35 mtj ... i could find that lost important information, and paste it into the new wiki
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02:36 mtj hmm, perhaps i could send that request to the Koha general mailing-list
02:36 druthb o/
02:36 mtj heya druthb
02:36 mtj got a copy of the db somewhere ;)
02:37 druthb nopers.
02:37 rangi im pretty sure i shifted that already
02:37 mtj im looking for this page ->
02:37 rangi
02:37 druthb rangi++
02:38 mtj bah , was searching on '22_to_30'
02:38 mtj thanks chris :)
02:39 rangi mtj: what you should do
02:39 mtj facepalm, its the 1st results using 'upgrading'  :/
02:39 mtj ;p
02:39 rangi[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4518
02:39 huginn Bug 4518: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti, ASSIGNED , Enhance 2.2 to 3.0 scripts
02:40 rangi thats a patch that fixes/enhances the 2.2 to 3.0 scripts
02:41 mtj oooh, thanks!
02:42 mtj im upgrading a koha thats so old.. it doesnt have a 'version' syspref value :p
02:42 rangi thats pretty old
02:43 rangi theosophical society?
02:43 mtj which is a 1st for me :) , its a 2.0.x (i think)
02:43 mtj yeah :)
02:43 rangi ahh ull need to go to 2.2.x first then 3.0.0 then 3.2 then 3.4 etc
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02:43 mtj so far, so good
02:43 rangi cool
02:43 druthb Hi, Oak. :)
02:43 * Oak waves
02:43 Oak heya druthb :)
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02:44 mtj rangi: yeah, the 2.0 to 2.2 bit... and quick ideas there?
02:44 rangi i forget how i did that
02:44 rangi been a long time
02:45 mtj ive been looking at a 2.2.9 repo, but cant find any 2.0->2.2 doco in it
02:45 mtj yeah :)
02:45 mtj all good - i can wing it, if i cant find any info
02:47 rangi yeah i cant remember
02:48 mtj ahh, here they are :)
02:49 mtj[…]438b2aad977a17cf2
02:49 rangi ahh thats easy
02:49 rangi ./koha.upgrade
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02:53 mtj[…]438b2aad977a17cf2
02:53 mtj w00t
02:53 mtj heya ronald
02:53 mtj mtj <- mason :)
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04:13 druthb o/
04:13 Oak druthb :)
04:14 druthb hi again, Oak. :)
04:14 rangi[…]07/the-dark-side/
04:15 druthb Interesting lil dubstep...
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05:04 francharb joined #koha
05:04 francharb hello all
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06:19 cait hi #koha
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06:43 reiveune hello
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06:50 julian hello #koha
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07:30 matts_away is now known as matts
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08:03 jenkins_koha Starting build 320 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
08:09 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Fix for Bug 6573 - Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength <[…]1e04fad664ba0503f> / Revised fix for Bug 6133 - Authorised values administration, warn for modifs <[…]c4f51abec08cc5a9f> / Bug 5197: add < > token to notices <http://git.koha-commu
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08:46 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #320: SUCCESS in 43 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/320/
08:46 jenkins_koha * ian.walls: Bug 5197: add <<today>> token to notices
08:46 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Revised fix for Bug 6133 - Authorised values administration, warn for modifs
08:46 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5197 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , today's date on notices
08:46 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Fix for Bug 6573 - Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength
08:46 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6133 trivial, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Authorised values administration, warn for modifs
08:46 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6573 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Library name entry field enforces unnecessary maxlength
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10:24 slef hi all
10:25 kf hi slef
10:26 slef anyone any idea about kohacon11 meeting?
10:26 kf sorry, no
10:28 rangi hi slef and kf
10:32 kf hi rangi :)
10:32 slef hi rangi
10:32 kf can you bring wahanui back?
10:32 rangi nope
10:32 kf oh :(
10:33 slef gone for good or just waiting on eythian?
10:33 rangi well i could, but id rather just wait for eythian he was working on some plugins
10:33 kf so he is not dead, only sleeping
10:33 kf that's good :)
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10:45 druthb o/
10:46 rangi hi druthb
10:46 druthb hi, rangi! :)
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11:35 JesseM Good Morning
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12:15 kf morning JesseM
12:16 JesseM Hi kf
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12:17 kf hi talljoy
12:17 talljoy good morning
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12:29 magnus_away is now known as magnuse
12:29 magnuse kia ora #koha
12:31 druthb kia ora, magnuse. :)
12:32 magnuse hiya druthb
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12:48 oleonard Must bug the person at this library who blocked IRC
12:48 magnuse ouch
13:01 kf hi magnuse :)
13:01 magnuse guten tag kf
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13:54 library_systems_guy once a patch has been signed off on how long does it usually take to get pushed to maser?
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13:58 kf until qa manager signs off
13:58 library_systems_guy ahh
13:58 slef library_systems_guy: I'm not sure it's an easy thing to average :-/
13:58 kf then rangi pushes them very quick
13:59 library_systems_guy gotcha
13:59 library_systems_guy i was just curious
13:59 slef[…]i-bin/ might give some idea of trends
13:59 sekjal small patches, things that touch the templates only, tend to be quicker to push through QA because they're easier to test; you either see it works or it doesn't
13:59 slef looks like a couple of days
13:59 sekjal anything mucking around in C4/Circulation, Reserves or Search... much more in depth
14:00 library_systems_guy right my patch that messes with xslt should tale some time
14:00 kf it's your first patch, right? :)
14:00 kf history is waiting :)
14:01 kf meaning - we can add another name to the list of that gets through
14:01 library_systems_guy third actually...but the first two were like id patches lol
14:01 kf oh
14:01 library_systems_guy i think im already in there :D
14:01 kf :)
14:01 library_systems_guy i felt that if i was going to make the list it might as well be for something cool
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14:38 wizzyrea good morning
14:38 kf good morning liz
14:41 Agent_Dani Hi wizzyrea
14:41 jcamins_away Hello, wizzyrea, kf, and Agent_Dani.
14:42 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
14:42 kf hi jcamins :)
14:44 druthb hi, jcamins. :)
14:45 jcamins Hi, druthb!
14:45 jcamins druthb++ # because it's after breakfast, and she does something amazing before breakfast every day :)
14:46 kf :)
14:48 * druthb blushes
14:48 talljoy I don't see any blushing.
14:48 * talljoy ducks
14:48 druthb no fair, with talljoy sitting next to me.
14:52 jcamins Hi, talljoy!
14:53 talljoy hello!
14:55 * kf whispers to talljoy: can you poke her from me?
15:01 * Agent_Dani fences photos of druthb blushing. *whistles innocently*
15:02 druthb :P
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15:11 miguel Hola, hay alguién para la reunión en el IRC de es-koha-community ?
15:11 matts is now known as matts_away
15:16 wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_away
15:17 wizzyrea_away is now known as wizzyrea
15:22 rhcl wizzy is dizzy
15:22 wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_away
15:22 druthb lol
15:23 rhcl Miguel: I don't think there is an English language meeting scheduled, I don't know if there is something scheduled on the Spanish language side or not.
15:24 wizzyrea_away is now known as wizzyrea
15:25 miguel thanks, I think we scheduled a meeting for today, but ...
15:29 SirDekar hi people, I've got a question. UNIMARC or MARC21 which is better or what's the difference?
15:29 reiveune bye
15:29 kf where are you located?
15:29 SirDekar me?
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15:29 kf yes :)
15:29 SirDekar Panama, Center of America
15:30 kf hm
15:31 slef SirDekar: look at what the libraries you want to share with use.
15:32 kf slef: good answer :)
15:32 kf both are bibliographic data formats
15:32 slef kf: until we figure out translating between them, at least.
15:33 kf there is a pending patch from marcelr
15:33 kf but if you want to import data too...
15:33 kf hm, export
15:33 kf it would help importing them via z39.50 - but no complete translation for all fields probably
15:33 kf but export works only with one format
15:37 kf ok, and now I stop confusing people and go book my hotel for the presentation next week
15:37 jcamins Argh! I just spent 45 minutes on a complicated item, only to have the computer crash when I tried to save the record.
15:37 kf ouch
15:37 * jcamins remembers all over again why he hates the Koha cataloging interface.
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15:40 library_systems_guy so i was just looking at rangi's place that he works...any correlation to
15:41 * jcamins had never forgotten why he hates embedding authids in bib records.
15:44 wizzyrea not related, afaik
15:45 library_systems_guy aww...thats disappointing
15:46 library_systems_guy although not surprising really...i guess if they were related Koha would probably be based on that framework
15:46 * wizzyrea questions that claim
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16:00 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6577] Columns misaligned on serials search results <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6577>
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17:17 hdl jcamins: can you elaborate ?
17:18 jcamins hdl: elaborate on what?
17:18 hdl jcamins had never forgotten why he hates embedding authids in bib records.
17:18 jcamins Ah.
17:18 hdl because of linking required ?
17:18 jcamins Right.
17:19 hdl mmmm only with ids can the relation be accurate imho.
17:19 cait that's what I keep saying, but he doesn't listen to me :P
17:19 jcamins You have to either create all your authority records in advance, or you have to allow the system to create them automatically for you.
17:20 hdl But this is a UNIMARC and endless discussion.
17:20 jcamins If there were a script to repair the damage after the fact, that would be one thing.
17:20 jcamins But there isn't.
17:20 cait and jcamins - didn't we agree that we need to improve the tools managing th elinks instead of killing the authids? ;)
17:20 jcamins cait: we agreed it would be a good idea.
17:20 hdl link_authorities.... doesnot work ?
17:20 cait hehe
17:20 jcamins hdl: no, of course not.
17:20 hdl for you ?
17:21 hdl I thought that dom indexing was the heaven for marc21.
17:21 cait it works for us - but we don#t use the linking scripts
17:21 cait it's not generally broken i would say
17:21 jcamins hdl: the matching algorithm is very inaccurate.
17:22 cait have to run and buy food :)
17:22 jcamins In particular, it doesn't match things with multiple subdivisions.
17:28 cait @wunder Konstanz
17:28 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 26.4�C (7:25 PM CEST on July 12, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.73 in 1006.7 hPa (Steady).
17:28 wizzyrea Did something change on the circ screen that would make it take a lot longer on patrons with lots of checkouts?
17:28 jcamins @wunder 11375
17:28 huginn jcamins: The current temperature in Howard Beach, Queens, New York is 33.7�C (1:28 PM EDT on July 12, 2011). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1003.9 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 9 PM EDT this evening...
17:29 jcamins wizzyrea: did you turn on the sorter things?
17:29 wizzyrea is that a syspref
17:29 wizzyrea ?
17:29 wizzyrea and it's new?
17:29 wizzyrea as of 3.4?
17:29 thd-away is now known as thd
17:29 cait I think it's new
17:30 cait but it was there before, the sorter thing, you can turn it off now
17:30 cait perhaps the relatives thing?
17:31 wizzyrea hmm tablesort for circ is off
17:31 wizzyrea could be the relatives thing... sec
17:32 wizzyrea heh...
17:33 wizzyrea 41 checkouts, no relatives, just took 40 seconds
17:33 wizzyrea to load the checkout screen
17:33 wizzyrea hmm
17:38 wizzyrea well soemthing has changed, because the same thing didn't happen in 3.2
17:38 cait :(
17:38 wizzyrea or at least, it only kicked in at a much higher level of borrows/user
17:38 cait your production system?
17:38 wizzyrea ya
17:38 cait ouch :(
17:39 wizzyrea ah sok. I've filed a ticket and the smarties will look into it. ;)
17:39 cait perhaps something on server side?
17:39 wizzyrea could be
17:44 thd Has anyone had difficulty uploading files to the wiki?
17:44 wizzyrea I thought that was fixed
17:45 thd wizzyrea, yes when I looked last week I could find no configuration obstacle to uploading common file types.
17:45 thd wizzyrea: Only specific file types are allowed as a sensible security measure.
17:45 wizzyrea sure
17:46 wizzyrea but you're not able to?
17:46 cait I think it was Brooke who had problems - I never tried it really
17:46 thd Brooke mentioned that there had been a problem.
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17:47 thd There had definitely been a problem with the category assignments which I have mostly fixed.
17:47 cait thd++
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17:47 cait perhaps have a list of allowed file types somewhere?
17:47 thd gmcharlt had upgraded the wiki software but some extensions needed upgrading in consequence.
17:48 thd cait++
17:48 thd The list is probably not long enough.
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17:48 cait yes, perhaps something like .mrc or something missing
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17:49 cait not sure what Brooke wanted to upload
17:51 thd I just added mrc.
17:51 thd We now have pdf, csv, and mrc as additional file types.
17:52 cait what are the others?
17:52 cait I think graphics?
17:52 thd I do not know what the base list of already allowed file types is.
17:52 cait ah ok
17:52 thd Yes graphics file types are certainly in the base list.
17:53 thd The directory in which they are stored is images.
17:53 cait I wonder if we should add odt
17:53 thd All uploads are stored in the images directory as far as I can tell.
17:54 thd I just added odt.
17:54 cait cool :)
17:54 cait might be good for checklists or other things you might want to print and edit
17:54 cait edit in print... in that sequence
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18:18 jcamins Does anyone know of any IRC channels where people who collate old books hang out?
18:18 cait hm
18:22 * wizzyrea mutters
18:23 wizzyrea can someone release that poor message I just sent to the koha list please and thanks?
18:24 jcamins hdl just left.
18:25 wizzyrea never mind I just re-sent it
18:25 wizzyrea my sig pissed it off.
18:26 * wizzyrea prepares for the poostorm that message will kick off.
18:26 * jcamins eagerly awaits the message.
18:27 jcamins This is a really weird book. Leaves C1 and C6 were both bound in backwards.
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18:31 * jcamins doesn't see what the problem with that message is.
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18:55 cait wizzyrea: looks good for me too
18:55 wizzyrea there are just a lot of politics surrounding the vendor list.
18:56 wizzyrea (it has a tangential relationship to "money," thus people get really excited about it)
18:56 wizzyrea (and I'm sure someone will call me out for saying it's tangential, because in capitalism the relationship to money is direct!)
18:57 cait hm
18:58 cait I don't think money was my reason to be excited about it :)
19:07 * slef fires up the poo cannon
19:07 * wizzyrea gets on her poo resistant outfit
19:08 cait oh cool
19:08 cait they are playing a song in the radio rangi showed me months ago
19:08 * druthb gets out a scrub brush.
19:08 * cait hums along
19:09 slef wizzyrea: mainly, where has "legitimate" gone from[…]ow-to-get-listed/ ?
19:12 wizzyrea slef: that's the wording that has been there since the last discussion on vendor listing took place
19:12 jcamins Ooooooooh. A Grolier binding. :D :D :D
19:12 wizzyrea that happened.... 5 may 2010
19:12 wizzyrea Legitimate has never been on that page.
19:13 slef wizzyrea: yeah rereading the IRC archives, it looks like gmcharlt dropped the word between everyone voting for his suggestion and him writing it on pastebin.
19:13 wizzyrea I'd take that up at the next meeting then.
19:13 slef wizzyrea: so would you list any old fraudsters on that site then? (Personally - and I don't know if I have access - I would not act.)
19:14 wizzyrea the requirements that I follow are the ones agreed upon by the community
19:14 wizzyrea the ones stated on the web page
19:14 slef no, they're not
19:15 slef they're the ones you were given, though
19:15 wizzyrea then blaming me is putting the blame in the wrong place.
19:16 wizzyrea I can understand why this situation is upsetting for you, and I"m willing to hold off on listing until the requirements have been discussed. As it stands though, there aren't any real barriers to listing.
19:17 wizzyrea not to mention the fact that by practicing selection, you then do bear some responsibility should a vendor not live up to the standards of their customers.
19:17 wizzyrea "you said this vendor was good"
19:17 wizzyrea by disclaiming all of them -- you don't have to worry about that.
19:19 wizzyrea so in my mind
19:19 slef I don't believe that's accurate or ethical and I don't think it's legal in the UK. We have concepts like "attractive nuisance" and I'm surprised if the US doesn't, given how the US DHS seizes domains.
19:20 wizzyrea we either take that responsibility seriously and offer a certification (which would likely trim the list) or we list based on basic requirements
19:20 slef Certainly in the UK, webmasters have been punished for failing to remove links to illegal enterprises from websites they ran voluntarily in a timely fashion.
19:20 wizzyrea you have a keyword there
19:20 wizzyrea illegal
19:20 wizzyrea "distateful to me" isn't "illegal"
19:21 slef read the last bullet on http://lists.koha-community.or[…]-July/035866.html
19:21 slef it was part of my objection
19:22 wizzyrea (failure to respond to that particular objection is why they're not listed already, fwiw)
19:22 wizzyrea (you'll note that they're not listed)
19:22 slef (ok, but it feels like we're into a grey area here)
19:22 wizzyrea this particular request is extremely grey
19:22 wizzyrea because there is a lot of interpersonal stuff around it
19:23 slef yeah, it plays into two other disputes which I'm not handling
19:24 wizzyrea I personally don't like all of the personal jabs, it could have been a lot more professional.
19:24 slef but I'm not going to let him game me out of being the co-op's koha-community liaison... I'm already not our membership manager nor our data controller because of those disputes.
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19:25 slef Yeah, I decided not to respond to most of those because I don't see what good it would do.
19:25 owen-away is now known as oleonard
19:25 wizzyrea I respect you greatly for your abstinence from poo-flinging. ;)
19:25 wizzyrea (I mean that)
19:27 slef all the EDI-related dispute is more debatable... I guess we should have held payment until it was in master.  Oh well, live and learn.
19:28 wizzyrea the point re: client's who didn't hire the company, would need proof
19:28 wizzyrea clients... i have an apostrophe happy finger.
19:28 slef how can anyone prove something didn't happen?
19:28 wizzyrea he will just need to prove that it did.
19:30 slef hmmm... not sure how that will play
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19:30 slef you do know he's reading this BTW?
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19:30 wizzyrea I do
19:30 * wizzyrea waves
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19:41 rangi morning
19:41 oleonard Hi rangi, long time no see
19:42 rangi took an irc mental health break :)
19:43 slef I've met NateC haven't it?
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19:45 oleonard Were you and he at KohaCon in NZ slef?
19:46 sekjal slef:  yes, you met him at KohaCon '11
19:47 rangi he probably did card tricks for ya :)
19:48 slef he looks nothing like the pic on the bywater website
19:48 slef oleonard: yes
19:49 oleonard Can someone please host KohaCon 2012 closer to me please? Thanks.
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19:49 jcamins oleonard++
19:49 wizzyrea closer like -- norway?
19:49 oleonard I'll take it.
19:50 slef oleonard: UK is already on[…]als_for_KohaCon12 but still lots to do
19:50 slef I think we're most likely to go for London or Edinburgh - which would people prefer?
19:51 * jcamins loves Edinburgh, but London is close enough to Oxford to detour for a research trip.
19:51 jcamins So...
19:51 jcamins edinburgh++
19:51 jcamins lond++
19:51 jcamins Let me try that again.
19:51 jcamins london++
19:51 * library_systems_guy wants to gooo
19:51 oleonard I'd prefer less expensive accomodations over more to do and see, FWIW
19:52 rangi either works for me
19:52 * druthb will tuck library_systems_guy into her duffel bag for the trip.
19:52 slef oleonard: well, both those cities are big enough to have a range of accommodation prices and tons to do, so that doesn't narrow it down much ;-)
19:52 library_systems_guy yayyy
19:52 library_systems_guy thanks druthb :D
19:53 sekjal london is closer to Legoland Winsor
19:53 sekjal ~Windsor
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19:54 slef let me know nearer the time if that's seriously a consideration and I'll keep an eye out for discount vouchers for you because it's eyewateringly expensive
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19:55 sekjal I've been to two of the others already, so I'm not sure if that's enough, or if I'm going for the complete set... will ponder on it
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19:58 rangi slef: I could asl francois about how the mahara partners thing works
19:58 rangi ask even
19:58 wizzyrea we know his asl :P
19:58 wizzyrea well you do probably
19:58 rangi I think they do some kinda certification
19:58 rangi kristina would know too
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20:01 slef rangi: Please do, but isn't it a misnamed self-perpetuating group?
20:01 rangi sure but aren't all certified ones
20:02 rangi who certifies the certifiers
20:02 rangi my stop bbiab
20:02 rangi mahara not moodle btw
20:02 wizzyrea ^^ what he said
20:02 slef the certifiers certify each other, peer-to-peer style
20:02 slef yeah, moodle partners is pay-to-play, we've looked at that before
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20:05 sekjal that sounds pretty neat
20:06 sekjal more applications than just certification
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20:06 slef OK, let me draft a page for it
20:06 sekjal could be tied into karma, or other forms of "merit"
20:07 sekjal do it for individuals, not organizations.  an organization would just be a sum of it's members in whatever aspects we'd want to measure
20:07 * wizzyrea has reservations about this, but will wait to see what you come up with
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20:09 cait hm I missed most of the discussion - but organization being the sum of their members... sounds not so good when you are small
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20:12 * cait reads back now
20:14 cait ah, missed a rangi appearance
20:15 slef ah
20:16 cait ah?
20:16 slef I don't like certifying people. Someone can leave their organisation and lose access to their tools.
20:17 slef I was thinking of fairly simple requirements like "we have tested the user interface of one of their Koha installations successfully".
20:19 jcamins What's the point of that? It only costs $5 and twenty minutes to meet a requirement like that (get a super-cheap vps, and install Koha).
20:20 slef ok, here's the other things I was thinking of:
20:20 slef # we regard them as a contributor to Koha in the last year;
20:20 slef # they have been recorded as attending a Koha meeting in the last year;
20:20 slef # we have seen recent basic business information (an annual report or similar); and/or
20:20 slef # the co-op's members agree we would do business with them.
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20:21 slef jcamins: the point is, many people would fail even that test.
20:21 rangi back
20:21 slef It's up to each certifier to decide their requirements, though.
20:21 rangi still here cait :)
20:22 cait :)
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20:24 rangi ohh i see what you mean slef
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20:24 jcamins Sounds like a lot of administrative work, for what seems to me limited benefit.
20:24 rangi theres no standard, but catalyst might be certified by and bywater
20:24 rangi bywater certified by equinox etc
20:24 rangi is that what you were thinking?
20:26 slef yeah, like we'd give bywater 4/5 almost immediately on request, as we keep hammering their public demo
20:26 slef (don't remember if catalyst host a sample site sorry :) )
20:27 rangi
20:27 slef then when the web of trust gets strong enough, I'd probably propose it's incorporated into the koha-community listing
20:27 cait hm
20:27 rangi i kinda like that
20:29 slef jcamins: the benefit is informing potential customers. I feel it would be better to spend 30mins reviewing another support provider in exchange for them reviewing us, than to spend 30mins posting marketingspeak that any old fraudster could write.
20:31 jcamins Hm.
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20:36 rangi speaking of which, i again!!!! forgot to sign people gpg keys at ALA
20:37 slef hey, did you sign mine at kohacon10?
20:37 jcamins rangi: if it makes you feel any better, my GPG key expired.
20:37 rangi nope i forgot that too
20:37 slef ratbag
20:37 * wizzyrea giggles
20:38 wizzyrea "ratbag"
20:38 wizzyrea that never gets old.
20:38 * cait giggles with wizzyrea
20:38 slef jcamins: heh, that's such a common FU that the co-op has an alarm on our keyring to remind us to extend them.
20:38 jcamins slef: I never use my GPG key, which is why it expired.
20:38 slef wizzyrea: that BBC sports presenter keeps using it. I really notice it now.
20:38 wizzyrea hee!
20:38 rangi jcamins: i sign the tags with them, and my RM mail
20:38 slef jcamins: we have to use ours to get access to customer data.
20:38 jcamins Actually, I should probably get a new key which is linked to my current e-mail address.
20:39 rangi and yeah, the sysadmins wont give me passwords, in any form other than encrypted
20:39 rangi which is good
20:39 slef jcamins: err, update your expiry and add your new email address as a uid?
20:39 jcamins You can use GPG for authenticating into systems?
20:39 jcamins slef: oh, I thought the GPG key was linked irretrievably to the e-mail you used to set it up initially.
20:39 slef jcamins: no, but you can feed your ssh keys to gpg-agent.
20:40 * jcamins puts it on my to-do list.
20:40 slef or at least NAFAIK
20:41 rangi when my user package is installed on a machine by a sysadmin, it pwgens a password, gpg encrypts that, and emails it to me (installs my ssh key too of course) so i can then login and do stuffs
20:41 rangi so i use my a lot
20:42 slef yeah, we log in with ssh keys but sudo is usually a pwgen password
20:43 slef jcamins: you seemed unconvinced about the mutual certs idea. Is that right?
20:44 jcamins slef: that is correct.
20:44 jcamins slef: not the peer-review/web-of-trust bit, just the idea of certifying Koha vendors in general.
20:44 slef jcamins: do you think there's a flaw in the implementation, or that the underlying problem doesn't need solving?
20:44 jcamins The latter.
20:45 jcamins There's also the problem of what do you do in a small ecosystem, if it turns out that one of the certifying authorities can't be trusted.
20:45 slef Do you think any market for lemons exists?
20:46 slef "The Market for Lemons: Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism" is a 1970 paper by the economist George Akerlof. It discusses information asymmetry, which occurs when the seller knows more about a product than the buyer. Akerlof, Michael Spence, and Joseph Stiglitz jointly received the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 2001 for their research related to...
20:47 slef If one of the CAs sucks, other providers will decertify or low-certify them.
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20:48 slef It may be possible one day to figure out a basis set of CAs along the lines of seeds, but let's walk before we run.
20:49 jcamins There are currently 29 vendors listed. If you require three +1s, that means that each vendor is approving certifying an average of 10 other vendors.
20:49 slef bbl
20:49 jcamins That's a lot of work.
20:50 slef dang
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20:50 slef three +1s?
20:51 jcamins slef: I'm just making up a number there, but 3 is a nice number.
20:51 slef yeah, but what's a +1?
20:51 jcamins Votes in favor of certification.
20:51 slef oh no, it doesn't work like that
20:52 slef A certificate is either issued or it's not.  No voting (unless the CA wants to vote on it).
20:53 slef Anyway, I was expecting to do 1 or 2 a month, which means certifying 10 might only take 5 months.
20:54 slef It's good to look at other people's stuff anyway.
20:54 slef Also, some of those 29 are probably stale or wouldn't request certs anyway.
20:55 slef I don't see there being a certificate. koha-community's big asset is being neutral.
21:11 rangi i like the idea of it not being a community cert, but purely a peer one, i kinda operates this way informally anyway
21:11 rangi there are support companies in the us id recommend, and ones i wouldnt, i just havent put that down on paper
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21:42 cait hmpf
21:42 rangi ?
21:43 cait my little perl program doesn't work
21:43 jcamins Time for me to go home, since my server just went down.
21:43 jcamins Bye.
21:43 cait and it's too late to figure out why
21:43 jcamins is now known as jcamins_away
21:43 cait bye jared
21:43 rangi ah
21:44 cait probably a stupid thinking error somewhere
21:44 cait good night #koha :)
21:45 rangi night
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23:49 Brooke kia ora
23:49 bg hi Brooke
23:49 Brooke 0/
23:50 rangi hi Brooke
23:50 Brooke :)
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