IRC log for #koha, 2010-12-15

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:18 sylvar Hi y'all. If a search from the admin side shows 14 items, 14 available (for a particular bib record) and the same search phrase on the public side shows "(1)", what might cause that difference?
00:19 chris none of them are marked lost?
00:19 sylvar I'll double-check.  The bib detail page says they're all Available, on both sides.
00:19 chris hm interesting, what version of koha?
00:22 sylvar chris:, but I suspect I've made a mistake during the data load, so I wouldn't consider it a bug.  Not a Koha bug, anyhow. ;)
00:23 chris :)
00:23 sylvar Thanks, though.
00:23 ebegin in your breadcrumbs, what koha shows? "kw,phr: your search"
00:24 ebegin or "kw,wrdl: your search"
00:37 ebegin I'm having trouble on my side to find word preceded of "L'", for exemple, I can find "L'entreprise" but not just "Entreprise"...
00:54 sylvar OK, I thought I knew this, but... is borrowers.cardnumber where barcodes should go?
00:55 chris yes
00:55 sylvar OK, thanks.
00:57 ebegin Is there a way to know what is indexed in zebra for a specific bib?
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02:50 munin New commit(s) kohagit32: Fix for 5143, now with IE debug removed <[…]8b44c9a8f740311b7> / Bug 3789 Set off shelving location in staff and OPAC title display <[…]5a343b7e505bbd0d4> / Bug 4937: Fixes XHTML in the pagination links of a saved report. <
02:55 druthb joined #koha
02:56 chris hi druthb
02:56 druthb hi, chris!  :)
03:00 hudsonbot Starting build 59 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #54 8 days 4 hr ago)
03:22 hudsonbot Project Koha_3.2.x build #59: STILL UNSTABLE in 22 min: http://hudson.koha-community.o[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/59/
03:22 hudsonbot * Katrin Fischer: Bug 4218: Fixes display problem introduced by last patch
03:22 hudsonbot * Frédéric Demians: Bug 5041 Allow to delete non-repeatable field
03:22 hudsonbot * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5416, Template syntax error in moredetails.tmpl
03:22 hudsonbot * Robin Sheat: Bug 5313 - allow creation of libraries with hyphens
03:22 hudsonbot * Robin Sheat: Bug 5228 - make rebuild_zebra handle fixing the zebra dirs
03:22 hudsonbot * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5208, Language chooser missing on Batch item deletion/modification
03:22 hudsonbot * Nicole Engard: bug 5150 change issuing to circ & fine rules
03:22 hudsonbot * Chris Cormack: Bug 5484 - Handling bad borrower categories in serial routing lists more gracefully
03:22 hudsonbot * Owen Leonard: Updated fix for Bug 2170, Adding 'edititems' user-permission
03:22 hudsonbot * Colin Campbell: Bug 2170 Supplementary Fix Wrap link in permissions check
03:22 hudsonbot * Nicole Engard: bug 4252 add authorites permission to menus
03:22 hudsonbot * Nicole Engard: bug 5255 change 'document type' to 'item type'
03:22 hudsonbot * Colin Campbell: Variable redeclared in same scope
03:22 hudsonbot * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5000, Uncertain prices misses option to choose display language
03:22 hudsonbot * Srdjan Jankovic: Bug 2965: Allow due date in the past
03:22 hudsonbot * Robin Sheat: Bug 5084 - hide funds that are part of an inactive budget
03:22 hudsonbot * Katrin Fischer: Bug 2965: Allow due date in the past - small template fix
03:23 chris chris_n`: you about?
03:23 chris_n` is now known as chris_n
03:23 chris did you catch the revert for Ergonomy improvement in smart rule management
03:24 chris[…]cde115764fa1afe44
03:31 chris_n chris: was that directed to me?
03:31 chris yup
03:32 * chris_n just wandered in
03:32 chris_n I did
03:32 chris cool
03:32 chris_n pused
03:32 chris_n pushed even
03:32 chris :)
03:33 chris_n its been one crazy ride the past two weeks here :-P
03:33 chris oh yeah?
03:33 chris_n end of fall semester schedule pains
03:33 chris ahhh right
03:35 chris_n tell sharrow that I put together a script to have nagios monitor the hot water boiler loop in a large chilled water cooling system this week
03:35 chris will do :)
03:35 chris_n its pretty cool; it texts the temps in the loop along with the boiler status
03:35 chris cool :)
03:35 chris_n in perl... of course :-)
03:36 chris of course
03:36 chris
03:37 chris_n scarry thought :)
03:40 chris_n off to sleep, g'night
03:41 chris night
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04:54 Brooke @roulette
04:54 Brooke was kicked by munin: BANG!
04:54 * munin reloads and spins the chambers.
04:55 kmkale joined #koha
04:56 kmkale Good morning
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06:22 cait hi #koha
06:26 Brooke joined #koha
06:27 chris hi cait and Brooke
06:27 cait morning chris
06:27 * Brooke waves at Chris
06:27 cait morning Brooke
06:27 Brooke eeyah
06:28 * Brooke cites the old adage that good things happen early in the morning.
06:30 cait hmpf!
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07:55 fredericd chris: Are you aware that script mess up templates .po files?
07:56 fredericd A LOT of string are marked as fuzzy, but they shouldn't
07:56 fredericd it means that translators will have to re-translate string they already translated
07:58 fredericd on stable branch, it means that to be able to have a few new strings translated into your language, you have to do a huge work of re-translation...
07:59 chris hmmm interesting that must be a new thing, because it didnt used to
08:00 fredericd for example on French staff .po files 1843 strings have been marked as fuzzy
08:00 chris when you did an update?
08:00 fredericd yes, just an update
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08:00 chris and they definitely werent fuzzy before?
08:01 fredericd new string are added, which is the expected behavior
08:01 fredericd chris: yes
08:01 Oak \o
08:01 chris is pootle down?
08:01 fredericd just before, the French .po files were without fuzzy
08:01 chris you could try updating english-nz
08:01 fredericd yes, I desactivated Pootle in the meantime
08:01 chris because that had nothing untranslated
08:02 chris i had updated them quite a few times
08:02 chris without that happening
08:02 chris i wonder if its to do with new pootle?
08:03 fredericd I don't think so, because the French .po file have been update outside Pootle
08:03 fredericd chris: same for en_NZ
08:03 chris hmm, afaik nothing has changed with
08:03 chris and it certainly never used to do this
08:04 fredericd but less fuzzy: just 356 strings
08:04 hdl fredericd: it can be that strings changed in context
08:04 chris yep, that would make them fuzzy
08:05 chris and that will be msmerge doing that
08:07 hdl fredericd: most of those strings will be unchanged. and will just have to be confirmed...
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08:08 hdl fredericd: but some will still need some work
08:09 fredericd hdl: Yes, but 1843 strings...
08:09 hdl welcome the translating process ;)
08:11 hdl it does require work
08:11 fredericd 300 strings in German, so there is something special in French
08:12 fredericd Clearly the templates strings extraction will have to be improved for TT
08:12 chris yep, its tons easier
08:12 chris its already underway
08:13 chris we dont have to try and look for comments
08:13 chris that arent really comments
08:13 chris [% %]
08:13 chris easy
08:13 chris so you can just use a proper HTML parser
08:13 chris to extract the alt tags etc
08:14 chris i reckon go from about 2000 to about 200 lines
08:14 fredericd is a blackbox for me, I can't fix it
08:14 chris yeah, it doesnt have too much longer to liv
08:14 chris e
08:14 chris just for 3.2.x
08:14 fredericd hope so
08:14 chris theres certainly no way we are going to try to bend it to work with TT
08:15 fredericd I'm not sure it will be possible to update translation from 3.2.x regularly as planned
08:15 chris once for each release is enough
08:21 fredericd YEAH
08:21 fredericd I was wrong for the fuzzy strings in French
08:21 fredericd I wasn't working on the correct French version of .po files
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08:22 kf hi #koha
08:22 fredericd I was working on hdl .po files version, before updates we've done the last few days
08:22 fredericd hi kf
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08:23 kf hi fredericd
08:24 hdl fredericd: pleased for you
08:24 kf fredericd: are you updating the pootle files today?
08:24 kf sorry, missed the beginning of your conversation
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08:29 fredericd kf: it was about .po files update for 3.2.2
08:29 kf ah
08:29 fredericd I was discovering that the update was marking as fuzzy more than 1800 string in French
08:29 kf I think strings went fuzzy before when the template file got touched
08:29 fredericd it was my fault
08:29 kf you don't really have to reatranslate, but submit them again
08:30 kf ah
08:30 kf ok
08:30 fredericd kf: for German you will 300 string exactly marked as fuzzy
08:30 kf puh
08:30 kf could be worse :)
08:31 fredericd yes, it could have been worse
08:32 kf but lot's of new strings I expect
08:34 kf fredericd: can you ping me when pootle is back?
08:34 ivanc hi #koha
08:35 ivanc hi kf
08:35 fredericd kf: yes, I'm updating all .po files and try to automate the process
08:35 kf yeah, no problem. :) Just eager to start.
08:40 kf hi ivanc
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08:56 clrh Hello everyone
09:00 chris hi clrh
09:00 magnus joined #koha
09:01 thd-away is now known as thd
09:06 magnus kia ora, #koha!
09:06 magnus solr meeting in about 50 minutes, right?
09:06 chris hi magnus
09:06 magnus hey chris
09:07 clrh right magnus
09:07 magnus chris: did you ever get around to looking at the logrotate stuff i mention you mentioning in bug 5055?
09:07 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5055 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, magnus, NEW, crontab.example should use standard file paths
09:07 magnus thanks, clrh
09:16 chris not ringing a bell
09:17 chris lemme look what line 79 is
09:18 chris hmm i wonder what files i was going to create?
09:19 chris ahh the logrotate.conf
09:19 magnus probably ;-)
09:20 chris actually i think taking that line out altogether
09:21 chris and telling people to do it properly
09:21 chris with /etc/logrotate.d/
09:22 chris is probably a better fix and then making a file that they can drop into there
09:22 chris that way, it can get installed with the package
09:22 magnus sounds nice, and a bit above me... ;-)
09:23 magnus should i take the logrotate stuff out and submit a new patch without it?
09:23 chris yeah that would be good
09:26 magnus ok, will do
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09:28 BobB Good evening all.  Is Chris Cormack about?
09:29 hdl hi BobB yes he is
09:30 BobB Bon soir HDL, ca va?
09:30 hdl (or was a few minutes ago)
09:31 BobB I'll wait.  I have something to ask him.
09:31 clrh It would be great for us to have more than 2 connected persons to katipo for one ip... si ?
09:32 hdl busy, as we all are.
09:32 hdl what about you BobB?
09:32 BobB Hi clrh.  I don't think we've met.  I'm Bob Birchall from Sydney Australia.
09:32 magnus hi BobB & irmaB
09:32 clrh Hi BobB :)
09:33 hdl clrh: is from BibLibre, our new dev manager.
09:33 BobB Ahhh,  bienvenue!  Good to meet you.
09:33 clrh thanks
09:33 magnus hi clrh, nice to meet you! ;-)
09:33 hdl She is at the moment mostly on the solr developments.
09:34 chris hi BobB
09:34 BobB Hi Magnus.  Obviously you arrived home safely from Wellington.  I hear it is very cold in Northern Europe.  It was 28 c in Sydney today.
09:35 magnus @wunder bodo, norway
09:35 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0�C (10:20 AM CET on December 15, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 0.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Falling).
09:35 BobB Summer!
09:35 magnus hehe
09:36 magnus BobB: not quite summer, but yes the return trip was as smooth as the outward trip
09:37 BobB It was so good to meet people at KohaCon.  KohaCon turns email addresses into people!
09:38 magnus yeah, not to mention irc nicks! ;-)
09:38 BobB That too.:)
09:39 BobB I need to find out who in the Koha community has lots of experience with DSpace?
09:40 magnus are you thinking of connecting them?
09:40 chris i know enough about dspace to know i dont like it
09:41 BobB Hi Chris.  Can we have a chat somewhere?
09:41 kf hi Irma and Bob
09:41 chris yep, just messaged you
09:41 BobB Guten arbend/morgen KF
09:45 tajoli joined #koha
09:45 tajoli Hi to all
09:46 tajoli The Solr meeting will be here ?
09:46 clrh yep tajoli
09:46 magnus tajoli: yep
09:46 clrh hi
09:46 magnus in about 10 minutes
09:48 hdl yes tajoli
09:54 Joubu joined #koha
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09:55 clrh hey Joubu
09:55 clrh he is working with me on solr dev for biblibre
09:55 Joubu hello
09:55 magnus hi Joubu
09:56 hdl meeting in two minutes.
09:57 hdl hi reed
09:57 reed hellow
09:58 hdl #startmeeting solr meeting
09:58 munin Meeting started Wed Dec 15 10:00:17 2010 UTC.  The chair is hdl. Information about MeetBot at
09:58 munin Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:58 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: solr meeting)
09:58 irmaB Hi all
09:58 hdl Hi..
09:58 hdl let's proceed to a round call
09:59 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre
09:59 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
09:59 * clrh Claire Hernandez, Biblibre
09:59 irmaB irma birchall from CALYX in Sydney
09:59 reed Reed Wade, Catalyst, NZ
09:59 Joubu Jonathan Druart, Biblibre
10:00 magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:00 miguelxer joined #koha
10:00 hdl any other persons ?
10:01 hdl hi miguelxer
10:01 miguelxer hello
10:01 ibot bonjour, miguelxer
10:01 hdl it is presentation time
10:01 miguelxer buenos dias a todos!!, ja
10:02 hdl #topic Why taking on solr
10:02 Topic for #koha is now Why taking on solr (Meeting topic: solr meeting)
10:02 hdl I think that this topic has been long advocated...
10:03 josepedro joined #koha
10:03 hdl If you have any questions or doubt on what we said previously and posted on list,
10:03 hdl then ask.
10:04 clrh #link[…]07-20.00.log.html
10:05 clrh #link[…]witch_to_Solr_RFC
10:05 hdl Since there are no questions then we will skip to next topic : what we did and are up to.
10:05 hdl no questions one
10:05 clrh #link[…]lopments-for-koha
10:05 hdl two
10:05 hdl three
10:05 hdl #topic what is done
10:05 Topic for #koha is now what is done (Meeting topic: solr meeting)
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10:06 tajoli Zeno Tajoli, CILEA
10:06 thd Does BibLibre intend to do work towards refactoring existing Koha record indexing and retrieval for use alongside Solr/Lucene and not as an either/or option?
10:06 magnus i guess my main concern is support for Koha acting as Z39.50 and SRU server - what is the status on that and Solr?
10:06 hdl guetting back then.
10:07 hdl our work now is not an either or option...
10:07 hdl Because of time and ressources.
10:07 juan_xerc left #koha
10:07 hdl But bricks that we used are flexible.
10:07 hdl And I think that we could wrap ZOOM in them
10:08 hdl That would be excellent not only for Koha... But also for Data::Search::Engine.
10:08 thd magnus: #link[…]fs/heads/wip/solr misc/ shows BibLibre work on a Simple2ZOOM gateway.
10:08 hdl And we would be grateful if the community would help us inahcieving that.
10:09 clrh #link wip about rpn grammar and z3950 server development
10:09 juan_xerc joined #koha
10:09 hdl #help on building Data::SearchEngine::ZOOM and Data::SearchEngine::Query::PQF via ZOOM wrappers
10:09 clrh we have to match both together and translate in solr requests
10:10 hdl magnus: we are doing some work on that... And will use 17 Mo of real use cases z3950 RPN queries to validate.
10:11 hdl (well not all of those are interestiing... But we plan to take out the most relevant ones)
10:11 hdl What we achieved
10:11 hdl - advanced search is now working pretty well.
10:12 hdl - Configuration of indexes via database is now ok.
10:12 hdl - display items information is now OK.
10:12 hdl as you can see and test on
10:12 irmaB wow that is impressive
10:12 hdl or
10:12 thd hdl: 17 mo?
10:13 hdl mega bytes.
10:13 tajoli I have a suggestion about Zebra in Koha
10:13 Oak left #koha
10:13 hdl listening.
10:13 tajoli One of the problem that you report is about Facets
10:14 tajoli why not insert Pazpar2 as mandatory and use its facets ?
10:14 tajoli Ok is a dead road ?
10:15 hdl pazpar2 could have been chosen... We chose solr because the community is much more active.
10:15 thd tajoli: Pazpar2 requires CCL support which BibLibre have removed in their implementation.
10:15 fredericd tajoli: if you want accurate facets with Pazpar2, you need to send to it the whole resultset
10:15 fredericd it's not a solution
10:15 hdl And CCL is not a standard... It needs configuration
10:16 hdl and all the setups are a little bit different.
10:16 josepedro that's true. we have proved it.
10:16 thd tajoli: #link which is a bug for no facets with the ICU in Zebra which Index Data will only fix with a support contract.
10:16 munin Bug 2048: blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Kohazebraqueue daemon MAJOR issue
10:16 hdl fredericd: miguelxer and josepedro can you preset your selves for the records ?
10:17 hdl What we have problems and are willing to do ...
10:18 hdl Z3950 support on top of solr.
10:18 hdl clrh: mentioned that we worked on the Z3950 grammar to get the whole of it (at least what is presented on the Indexdata website which was the only ressource we got that from)
10:19 hdl #action Z3950 support on top of solr
10:19 josepedro we started with pazpar but we thought that is not the best solution
10:19 irmaB josepedro was that with Koha 3?
10:19 hdl #action improving the indexing time.
10:20 josepedro yes
10:20 hdl indexing speed is still quite slow compared to zebra...
10:20 hdl But we are working on two ideas.
10:20 clrh #link
10:21 hdl - DIH Marc
10:21 clrh #link http://lucene.472066.n3.nabble[…]DIH-td504691.html
10:21 hdl (posted from erik hatcher...)
10:21 magnus and SRU?
10:22 josepedro since Biblibre started with solr, we started to review their code comparing with Vufind
10:22 hdl magnus: I guess and hope that SimpleServer will also cope with SRU
10:22 magnus ok
10:22 hdl - forking and sending // batches to index to solr.
10:23 clrh #link[…]0/12/msg2836.html about another idea for improving => multi-threaded call
10:23 thd magnus: SimpleServer will map CQL to PQF for SRU.
10:24 josepedro we are reviewing the sru/srw libs, too
10:24 hdl josepedro: what have you found ?
10:24 josepedro libs for dspace
10:24 hdl josepedro: what have you figured out  from your audits ?
10:25 hdl and code reviews ?
10:25 josepedro we think that the implementation is not going to be very difficult with time enough.
10:26 hdl Do you have a plan or could devote people to work with us ?
10:26 josepedro anyway, our main aim is facets solution
10:27 josepedro yes, we would like to collaborate with you
10:28 hdl josepedro: it looks that we have a nice solution... With true facets. needs some more work on thorough configuration of indexes.
10:28 hdl and adapting the solr configuration for MARC21 (
10:28 hdl we based our work on UNIMARC)
10:29 josepedro have you seen something about printing solr records directly??
10:29 josepedro without looking the database??
10:29 hdl Plugin system we implemented for solr (that could be also used for zebra) is quite handy
10:30 hdl josepedro: I donot understand.
10:31 hdl We are using records. getting them from koha and processing information to send to solr.
10:31 thd hdl: Where did you find a Solr/Lucene configuration for MARC 21?
10:31 tajoli Well, as I have undestood the mains problems are Zebra + ICU and facets.
10:31 tajoli For me setup Zebra is not a problem
10:32 josepedro when you get the solr records,  you search them in the database instead of printing them directly
10:32 tajoli and realtime indexing work (with a daily reboot)
10:32 thd tajoli: Zebra has a few problems but we should be able to have both Zebra and Solr/Lucene together.
10:33 tajoli But I undestand that Zebra + ICU is mandatory  with more that one charset (like in France).
10:33 hdl whatever quite big library you are.
10:33 thd tajoli: That is exactly how BibLibre came to their problem.
10:34 hdl even small have some special books
10:34 hdl in Hebrew, arabic... and Georgian..
10:34 thd tajoli: As hdl states big libraries need full Unicode support.
10:34 magnus so what is the real question here? no one seems opposed to solr as such, but there are some good reasons for keeping zebra around too. as long as solr is introduced as an option along side zebra everyone is happy, right?
10:34 hdl This is how we ... and the whole community came into that problem.
10:34 tajoli And Zebra + ICU doesn't work
10:34 thd tajoli: Zebra is fixable but with support money.
10:35 hdl tajoli: koha 3.0 was claimed to support full utf8 search
10:35 hdl magnus: yes. Sure.
10:35 hdl our main problem is that we have limited ressources.
10:36 thd Would BibLibre not at least consider abstracting the search calls so that others attempting to reintroduce Zebra, Pazpar2, etc. support on top of BibLibre's Solr/Lucene work would not entail rewriting BibLibre Solr/Lucene work for better abstraction?
10:36 hdl We are willing to share ideas and development.
10:36 tajoli Well, what I want to say is that CILEA can TRY to help biblibre to develop an abstract search call interface
10:36 reed there's a separate project here and I think that's 'make koha support various search back ends'
10:36 tajoli sorry Biblibre
10:37 hdl Well reed it is not much separate. I think it could be built on top of what we did.
10:37 tajoli But with pointing that Zebra continues to have the problems:
10:37 magnus hdl: we all have limited resources
10:38 tajoli -- diffcult indexes setup
10:38 tajoli -- no ICU
10:38 tajoli -- bad facets
10:38 tajoli but
10:38 tajoli Less RAM to use
10:38 tajoli For use this is the kay point
10:39 reed hdl, good to hear -- but still is a thing that sounds like it needs additional attention
10:39 clrh I have to see how much ram is needed with solr, didn't test anymore
10:39 tajoli We can't ask to improve RAM requests
10:39 hdl big CPU consumption
10:39 tajoli big CPU consumption with solr ?
10:39 hdl bug CPU consumption is for zebra.
10:39 tajoli are you sure ?
10:40 hdl absolutely.
10:40 thd tajoli: Zebra certainly has ICU but it does not work for scan queries for facets nor truncation other than right truncation.
10:40 tajoli I don't see it.
10:40 hdl If you read some logs about performance improvements, mason pointed
10:40 hdl that you needed to set zebra on a different machine.
10:40 tajoli Ok, thank you.
10:41 hdl reed: I always said that we would like to build that.
10:41 hdl reed: but we cannot do that alone.
10:41 hdl Refactoring the C4::Search was a priority for us.
10:41 reed solr ram reqs will vary depending on updates and number of indexes and searches and catalog size and it'll be a few years before we have some stable config advice
10:41 hdl We chose the best bricks for that.
10:41 reed (I might be exagerating the case a little)
10:41 tajoli With Solr as option I don't suggest to use Zebra with ICU
10:42 hdl tajoli: said he would help us in making solr an option... any other persons  ,
10:42 hdl ?
10:43 thd hdl: Do you understand the problem that anyone starting from your work on C4:Search to add other non-Solr/Lucene options would need to rewrite all search calls to keep your Solr/Lucene work?
10:43 magnus i do not like the sound of "others attempting to reintroduce Zebra, Pazpar2, etc. support on top of BibLibre's Solr/Lucene work" - sure biblibre has put a lot into this, but why should "others" have to re-implement something that is working (although not perfectly) today?
10:43 thd I should have s/on top/along side/
10:44 hdl magnus: C4::Search refactoring was not set by BibLibre.
10:44 thd hdl?
10:44 ibot well, hdl is in France. France is in a galaxy far, far away.
10:44 hdl and is a point in 3.4
10:44 hdl forget hdl
10:44 ibot hdl: I forgot hdl
10:44 thd ahhh
10:45 hdl magnus: we worked on that... And for solr integration... because it fixed many problems at once...
10:45 hdl And would allow better end user experience.
10:45 thd hdl: However, the particular implementation of refactoring C4::Search is BibLibre's work.
10:45 tajoli I confirm, I will TRY to help to BibLibre to have Solr and Zebra as index tool in Koha.
10:46 hdl We are willing to add advanced search customization from administration.
10:46 thd hdl: Substituting one record indexing system for another is not refactoring as such.
10:46 tajoli But not in the same install, as an option to select in install
10:47 tajoli clealy with Zebra no those options:
10:47 reed tajoli, yeah, that sounds sensible
10:47 tajoli -- No ICU
10:47 tajoli -- No vanced search customization from administration
10:47 tajoli -- No improvment on facets
10:48 hdl thd: show me any other code that works as much what we did. And I will be happy
10:48 tajoli No indexes from administration
10:48 tajoli No checks on data
10:48 hdl #action work in pairs with CILEA for zebra as an option implementation
10:49 thd hdl: I am trying to understand your last post.
10:49 tajoli Etc.
10:49 tajoli Zebra as is today
10:49 irmaB and proprietary LMS already offer (or say they do) facet searching and truncation etc.
10:50 hdl and many are using solr internally
10:50 * slef = MJ Ray, worker-owner of
10:51 hdl #help new ideas for plugins to add so that the indexing could be better.
10:51 irmaB hi MJ
10:51 irmaB late ...
10:51 irmaB but here :)
10:51 slef dentist, unavoidable
10:52 thd hdl: I think I have understood your post about comparable code but stating that other work is inadequate should not be a basis for not attempting to develop a better model than other work.
10:52 slef #welovethenhs but it does mean I'm reluctant to waste public money by moving appointments
10:52 hdl josepedro: miguelxer we would appreciate your feedback
10:52 hdl on the review.
10:53 thd hdl: I do not question that much of the best work in Koha is work from BibLibre and Paul Poulain's business previously.
10:53 hdl Can I add an action from xercode as of code review on what we did ?
10:54 hdl thd: it is not a question of comparison.
10:54 magnus hdl: no one is denying that biblibre is doing good work here - it just seems odd to me that one of the biggest companies should introduce new "things" that break old "things" that a lot of people still want...
10:54 hdl There is no other code to compare.
10:54 hdl magnus: we donot want to break...
10:55 magnus good :-)
10:55 hdl But to build on safer ground.
10:55 josepedro we do not understand
10:55 thd hdl: safer ground?
10:55 hdl We would like to have your feedback from the code review you did.
10:56 thd hdl:I have been typing furiously on that since last night in addition to other days.
10:56 hdl thd: more abstract bricks so that it is more flexible.
10:56 hdl Have any thing that worked before working with the new system.
10:57 hdl And then... use that abstraction to reintroduce options
10:58 thd hdl: Yet, not everything that worked before would work with the new system otherwise we would merely be busy praising your effort without these qualifications.
10:58 hdl We are gathering use cases of searches that worked in koha previously.
10:58 thd hdl: Do not mistake that I do praise BibLibre's work.
10:58 clrh #link[…]hl=en&output=html
10:59 hdl #help please try and contribute yours
10:59 slef but not use cases like "run in less than a gig" which are also a vital concern
10:59 hdl are you having servers with less than one gig ?
10:59 josepedro we consider it a great job but we think that there are several points that need to review deeply.
10:59 slef yes, lots of our libraries have sub-gig servers
10:59 thd hdl: One thing which would have worked on Koha using Pazpar2 which needs CCL is metasearch.
10:59 josepedro for example, the last i commented you
11:00 clrh ok josepedro can you send us a mail with your points?
11:00 thd hdl: What support do you envision for metasearch?
11:00 hdl solr has internal support for metasearch.
11:00 thd hdl: To Z39.50 servers?
11:01 slef hdl: The co-op may be unusual in that we support almost as many self-hosted libraries as shared-hosted ones, but I would expect a lot of independent libraries to be worried by the increased resource demands of solr too.
11:01 thd hdl: Solr/Lucene is not the API for library databases while Z39.50/SRU is.
11:02 * magnus agrees with slef
11:02 josepedro yes, no problem. But we have already sent you something about this.
11:02 hdl slef: can you then be accurate in your demands ?
11:02 hdl Those libraries surely donot have 300000 records.
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11:02 hdl And it would be quite nonesense to pretend that koha3.0 works in that context.
11:03 slef hdl: reportedly (see link I added to RFC), solr defaults to a 1Gb RAM usage.
11:03 thd hdl: Do you find database size limitations for Zebra?
11:04 hdl #action josepedro send a mail with code reviews.
11:04 hdl again, it is still work in progress.
11:04 hdl We can help.
11:04 hdl We are willing to recieve help.
11:04 reed slef, hdl - solr is just not going to be viable in small installations, it can't become a requirement for using koha
11:04 hdl Even comments.
11:04 slef hdl: I don't know how many records, but I suspect most koha libraries are smaller than that. Solr may be needed for the top 10% of libraries, but we cannot let 10% of libraries increase expense for the 90% unnecessarily, can we?
11:05 reed snap
11:05 thd hdl: I think you missed a 0 in 3 million if you intended 3 million.
11:05 hdl slef: if there is an abstraction layer you will have no problems.
11:06 hdl thd: no. 300,000 with less that 8Gb is not viable option.
11:06 hdl with koha3.2
11:06 slef reed++
11:06 magnus redd++
11:06 magnus reed++ # sorry
11:07 hdl slef: reed we are willing to help but we cannot do that alone.
11:07 thd hdl: wow, I have only tested very small record sets.
11:07 hdl tajoli: propsed to help.
11:07 slef (I don't know OTTOMH, that is)
11:07 tajoli yes, I confirm
11:07 hdl and that is fine.
11:07 reed hdl, right -- was going to say that I don't think you expect it should be a requirement for koha
11:07 hdl We will try and help him.
11:07 thd hdl: Do you have a comparison of RAM requirements in your Solr/Lucene test?
11:08 clrh nop thd I ll try to provide it
11:08 hdl #action provide a comparison of RAM requirements between zebra and solr
11:08 hdl thd: to be honest... it would require to do multiple tests.
11:09 thd hdl: how multiple?
11:09 hdl I am sure that Croswalking records in zebra is also ram demanding.
11:09 josepedro From our point of view, Koha has 3 big problems: 1- Facets. 2- Abstraction. 3- ModPerl. At present Zebra does not meet our expectations about facets, so we believe SOLR is the best solution and we would like to collaborate with BibLibre to develop this solution.
11:09 hdl josepedro: Mod Perl Plack will be another meeting.
11:09 reed re: ram requirements --- my prediction is that solr schema  tuning is going to be a very long process and so and profiling done now is likely to go out of date fast
11:10 hdl josepedro: Please keep contributing...
11:10 hdl any other questions ?
11:10 tajoli No
11:10 irmaB I propose to look at the MARC21 implications with sorl - adapting the solr configuration for MARC21
11:11 thd reed: Improvements in the sophistication of indexing may actually greatly increase RAM requirements for all options.
11:11 reed agree
11:11 hdl #action irmaB build an adaptation of MARC21 for solr
11:12 hdl #action BibLibre make a solr instance for MARC21 and publicise that to Irma
11:12 irmaB yes.
11:12 thd hdl: Did you state that you adapted an existing MARC 21 Solr/Lucene schema to UNIMARC?
11:13 hdl No.
11:13 tajoli Vufind has a MARC21 setup for Solrs
11:13 hdl tajoli: with solrmarc.
11:14 tajoli because you don't use solrmarc ?
11:14 hdl yes... we investigated that. And think that we could build bridges.
11:14 hdl No.
11:14 thd hdl: I think that was merely a confusion between your description and a comment next to yours.
11:14 hdl It was proved not to be that efficient in indexing.
11:15 magnus hmmm... seems to me the main focus now should be on getting solr and zebra to both be options along side each other - otherwise it sounds like the solr solution will have a hard time becoming part of koha/replacing zebra...
11:15 thd hdl: How do you return a complete record from Solr/Lucene?
11:15 hdl And would have required too much time.... and would not have enable ppl wirh the flexibility we wanted to provide them.
11:16 clrh thd, you can look in Search::IndexRecord
11:16 tajoli Clearly is not a task for 3.4 (april 2010)
11:16 hdl magnus: we cannot. This is why we asker for help.
11:16 hdl tajoli: agreed..
11:16 tajoli But for 3.6
11:16 clrh a record is constructed before indexing
11:16 clrh s/before/during
11:16 hdl But anyway, it is work on progress.
11:17 hdl and if all the RFCs cannot be integrated into 3.4 RM is fine with that.
11:17 thd clrh: I had looked at
11:18 slef hdl: it is difficult to persuade 90% of libraries that they should fund something to enable support for the biggest 10%, and I mentioned last meeting that I don't think our members will pay from the co-op's community donation fund. You see our difficulty here?
11:18 hdl slef: our work was only very little funded.
11:18 hdl And we did that.
11:19 magnus hdl: which is cool, but it seems there are lots of fun things to do with solr that may not be so important compared to getting solr into koha in the first place (which seems to imply making zebra and solr work as options next to each other)
11:19 thd hdl: Do you not think you should have tried to obtain more funding for a development with such a large scope?
11:20 tajoli well, for me the main bonus of Solrs is to replace Zebra +ICU
11:20 hdl thd: noone would have ever funded refactoring.
11:20 hdl you donot want to redo things.
11:20 hdl libraries want features.
11:20 slef hdl: that is your decision. Maybe this is easier for a private company. I just explain the difficulty of our membership organisation in the hope you will comprehend it.
11:20 tajoli Is clear that Zebra+ICU doesn't work.
11:20 hdl I explain ours.
11:21 slef hdl: that's not true. The co-op funded a lot of SQL-injection/placeholder cleanup way back when.
11:21 thd tajoli: It works mostly but with important exceptions.
11:21 tajoli So every library with a complex charset (like Arab+latin) can't use koha in good way now
11:21 slef I think someone now is funding template refactoring (sorry I forget who).
11:21 thd tajoli: Yes that is correct.
11:21 tajoli Koha in fact is use on a simlgle charset enviroment
11:22 tajoli The english speaking countriies and contry like Italy with latin charset only
11:22 hdl ok.
11:22 tajoli And in this situation Zebra is good
11:22 hdl ok.
11:23 hdl I propose to stop the meeting now.
11:23 tajoli But if you need two charset, problems arise
11:23 hdl And if you have other questions, or concerns or feed back on test instances, let us know.
11:23 hdl on list please
11:24 tajoli bye
11:24 tajoli left #koha
11:24 slef catalyst are funding template refactoring
11:26 hdl #endmeeting
11:26 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha - Koha 3.2.1 is now available. Next general meeting on 5 January 2011
11:26 munin Meeting ended Wed Dec 15 11:28:19 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
11:26 munin Minutes:[…]-12-15-10.00.html
11:26 munin Minutes (text):[…]0-12-15-10.00.txt
11:26 munin Log:  […]15-10.00.log.html
11:26 clrh Thanks all! Happy to see more interractions today :)
11:26 magnus yeah, interesting meeting!
11:27 hdl slef: we all contribute. There are many places to work on.
11:27 hdl We will have work on Acquisitions and serials.
11:28 hdl But rather than letting ppl alone... working in small groups of interest could make better work in the end.
11:28 thd hdl: I have a concern that if we take the approach that refactoring will never be funded too much new development will be at the expense of old features.
11:28 hdl thd: this has already been the case... And will be the case unless we have unit TESTS. for all.
11:29 hdl every single bug every single feature should have one.
11:29 thd hdl: I know that it has already been the case and that BibLibre have been great victims of the problem as well as perpetrators.
11:29 hdl But it costs... And Libraries have not been used to pay much on Koha developments. only the minimum
11:30 irmaB G'night all and thanks hdl for the good meeting.
11:30 hdl thx irmaB
11:30 magnus i guess getting funding for writing tests is about as easy as getting funding for refactoring...
11:30 irmaB left #koha
11:31 hdl magnus: you are right.
11:31 thd hdl: We need a better scheme for distributing costs where more than one library contributes to payments.
11:31 hdl This is why we try and make those refactorings part of new features.
11:31 slef Would someone review a patch branch for me, please?
11:31 hdl But it needs planning and sharing.
11:31 hdl slef: which one ?
11:32 thd hdl: I still think that we have a different conception of refactoring.
11:33 magnus planning_and_sharing++
11:33 thd hdl: Refactoring is not rewriting it is abstracting.
11:33 slef hdl: thanks but I can't find the bloody one for HEAD. Only for 3.0. Interested?
11:33 hdl Sure ;)
11:33 hdl Will try and make it in for 3.0.x
11:34 slef for-3.0/bug_5394
11:34 hdl If you find it for HEAD then let me know.
11:34 slef once I free some disk space, I'll port it to HEAD
11:35 BobB Late here now.  I'm off.  Good night.
11:35 BobB left #koha
11:36 reed g'nite all
11:36 reed left #koha
11:37 magnus good night reed
11:44 magnus lunchtime!
11:44 magnus is now known as magnus_a
11:51 thd hdl: Is 300,000 records the largest BibLibre library?
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12:08 slef thd: might be commercially-sensitive info.
12:10 juan_xerc left #koha
12:11 thd slef: It should not be in the sense in which I am asking.
12:13 thd slef: If 300,000 records needs 8GB for Zebra that must not be a base number of records per GB or some services which use Zebra would be unaffordable to create.
12:14 thd slef:  Think of with millions of records indexed in Zebra.
12:17 kf thd: I think the 8gb are disk space not ram
12:17 kf we once made a bigger database for a demo, I think 250.000?
12:18 kf the indexes get pretty big, but we have a lot of indexes.
12:18 thd kf: hdl and I were having multiple linguistic confusions during the meeting.
12:18 kf I just read back
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12:19 kf I can not confirm zebra + icu does not work at all
12:19 kf we are using it
12:19 kf with hebrew
12:19 kf and german umlauts, french diacritics
12:19 alohalog left #koha
12:19 thd kf: I tried to qualify that statement correctly every time it was raised.
12:19 kf the truncation and scan problems, yes. you have to live without some of the search features, but not sure nothing can be done about that.
12:20 kf the problem I see is, that these problems are not really discusses
12:20 kf d
12:20 thd kf: Money for a support contract with Index Data could fix those problems.
12:20 kf it's not like the community decided to go to solr - it's biblibre's decision. and the decision process is missing.
12:22 kf and although I would love to have those solr features, I think we need to have an option for those real small libraries... and it will need time to prove a better solution.
12:22 thd kf: Solr/Lucene is a good choice.  The implementation is merely problematic for adding the feature along side other features.
12:22 kf thd: perhaps that could have been funded by the community, lots of people, smaller amounts
12:23 kf thd: I am not against it, but as I stated previously - it should be an option - at least at first
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12:23 kf and zebra is very fast in indexing
12:23 thd kf: Many things can be funded with many people and small amounts.
12:23 kf yeah, but it has to be discussed before development starts to make that work
12:24 nengard thd i like that quote - we need to add that to the quotes
12:24 nengard which i have no idea how to do
12:24 thd nengard: neither do I.
12:24 kf I have
12:24 kf ... @quote add ...
12:25 kf want to try nengard?
12:25 nengard k
12:25 nengard @quote add thd> Many things can be funded with many people and small amounts.
12:25 munin nengard: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
12:25 nengard hmm
12:26 kf @hostmask add
12:26 munin kf: The operation succeeded.
12:26 kf huh
12:26 slef @quote add thd> Many things can be funded with many people and small amounts.
12:26 munin slef: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
12:26 druthb @quote add <thd> kf: Many things can be funded with many people and small amounts.
12:26 munin druthb: The operation succeeded.  Quote #111 added.
12:26 slef munin: grrr
12:26 munin slef: Error: "grrr" is not a valid command.
12:26 kf ah no
12:26 kf that was not my quote
12:26 kf it was thd
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12:26 kf ah... he said it to me... right
12:26 * kf confused
12:26 druthb :)
12:26 slef kf #fail
12:26 kf :(
12:27 slef but still infinitely better than Initial Citylink
12:27 kf ?
12:27 slef kf:
12:28 slef I've been having a few problems with a courier.
12:29 kf but why kf #fail?
12:31 slef confusion
12:31 nengard data inmport question "Can a record import to Koha with no values in the three required fixed fields?"
12:31 slef sorry, didn't mean anything by it
12:31 slef nengard: not from tools last I tried.  Would expect bulkmarcimport to barf too.
12:31 nengard that's what I thought
12:31 nengard thanks for confirming
12:32 slef nengard: might be able to import from Z39.50... I don't remember.
12:32 nengard what about using the command line?
12:32 slef want me to check?
12:32 nengard yes please :)
12:32 nengard and thank you
12:34 thd kf: I think that if there had been better communication by BibLibre with the rest of the Koha community about problems with Zebra ICU support etc. they would not have been in such a rush to add Solr/Lucene without preserving Zebra.
12:34 kf yes, I agree
12:36 thd s/etc./etc. we would have formed a plan to fund fixing the bugs and/
12:37 slef nengard: looks like it depends on C4::AddBiblio which depends on the biblioitems columns being NOT NULL or some similar restriction. Checking that on a live server
12:38 nengard this is so silly ... libraries used to delete the fixed fields to save space cause they were being charged too much, this is the second library I've had tell me this - so when you go to import their old records they don't work - stupid proprietary nonsense!
12:39 slef nengard: erm. Ow. Which fields do you think are required?
12:39 nengard 000, 007, 008
12:39 nengard or one of the three
12:39 nengard these are the ones that are missing
12:39 thd LibLime once paid for a support contract for Zebra with Index Data but such burdens should not fall on one company alone.
12:40 thd nengard: The original MARC Koha clobbered those fields as well.
12:40 slef nengard: oh, it'll also depend if MARC::Batch can read them without those!
12:41 thd nengard: kados wrote a script for NPL to reconstruct at least 000 from other data in the records.
12:43 nengard and is that script available in the wild?
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12:48 thd nengard: Perhaps NPL has a copy but it may be lost on some LibLime servers.
12:48 nengard figures
12:48 nengard okey dokey - at least we've confirmed some details
12:48 thd nengard: kados had told me he spent two weeks working on the script.
12:49 kf we normally use some default values if we can't make real fields
12:49 thd nengard: I have a better option for you.
12:49 kf it's nice to have the year in 000 for publication year seach in opac
12:49 nengard thd whatcha got? :)
12:49 thd nengard: Distributed Z39.50 searches with record matching.
12:50 hdl thd: We have a library which has 800,000 records.
12:50 thd hdl: I think that we had another linguistic confusion.
12:50 hdl thd: and we read that one library in India has 7M records.
12:50 thd hdl: How much RAM do those libraries need?
12:53 hdl For 300,000 records, it is not more a RAM problem than a CPU consumption.
12:53 hdl We are trying to use zebra with no icu... in order to check whether it is icu.
12:54 hdl kf: Taking decisions... about money or technical decisions... is a problem we raised... and that some told there was no problems.
12:55 thd hdl: Do you mean a real time problem for CPU usage during queries or an indexing CPU problem.
12:55 hdl thd: realtime problems... zebrasrv using one proc for him alone.
12:56 hdl when you launch multiple concurrent queries... your server goes wild.
12:56 thd hdl: I probably was not paying attention to Koha and I know that support companies not using the ICU may not have investigated well.
12:57 thd hdl: That is the worst problem identified thus far.
12:57 hdl thd: about distributed solution... are you talking about the work that was in an unstable status (despite quite promising) from LibLime ?
12:58 thd hdl: No I mean my own work in PHP which needs porting to Perl.
12:58 hdl nice...
12:59 hdl there is also iirc apache2-pazpar2 or masterkey for that.
12:59 thd hdl: I keep it a secret because not everyone would think the default configuration to be nice.
12:59 slef nengard: I'm not happy about the newsletter linking to which requires one to pass an audio-visual ability test to comment.  Could we have newsletter articles hosted on k-c.o instead or is that a ton more work?
13:00 nengard It would requires authors of posts in the newsletter to publish to
13:00 nengard I can say that if your info isn't on the official koha site then I can't include it
13:01 nengard or I can start publishing entire articles in the newsletter instead of short blurbs (but I fear people won't read them)
13:01 nengard I'm up for any of these options
13:01 slef I think it's a bit odd clrh didn't link to the RFC or email thread where some claims in that article are queried, and other drawbacks are mentioned, but that's not an editing/compilation matter.
13:02 slef nengard: short blurbs are fine. Remind me: do we have feedwordpress installed?
13:02 nengard I don't know ... wizzyrea would know that
13:02 nengard not sure I have access to the plugins page ... off to check
13:02 slef I'll look into it, if you're not against the idea.
13:02 nengard yeah I don't have plugin access
13:03 nengard and I don't like the idea of all posts from other Koha sites coming into the official site
13:03 nengard things get in that don't belong that way
13:03 nengard if I post something Koha related on the ByWater site that is more ByWater related it shouldn't go to the site
13:03 slef no, not all posts, just selected ones
13:03 nengard oh cool - if we can do that then a-ok with me :)
13:04 slef I'm thinking set up feedwordpress to read category feeds like for-koha-newsletter (which I just imagined) into a koha-newsletter-proposals category on k-c.o and set it to manual update
13:04 nengard that sounds fine with me
13:05 nengard we might want to put it on the agenda for next meeting so others know the options/plan
13:05 slef then newsletter time, you'd tell it to update, see what comes in, delete crap, reorder what you want, then maybe just copy-paste the category index into the newsletter, with header/footer.
13:05 slef yeah, I'll write something up
13:05 nengard awesome
13:05 slef @later tell wizzyrea do we have feedwordpress on
13:05 munin slef: The operation succeeded.
13:05 nengard well starting in 2011 it's a bi-monthly newsletter - it's too hard to get enough content from people for monthly
13:06 slef nengard: Shame, it seems like the newsletter is really popular, which I put down to your great work and persistent promotion.
13:06 slef nengard: today I got email about it from a librarian before I saw the newsletter myself.
13:07 nengard well then maybe we need to put that to a vote too at the meeting
13:07 slef I can appreciate the struggle for monthly, though.  It's more stuff that it's hard to get paid for.
13:07 nengard I'll do it monthly but I don't want to have to keep sending out 4 reminders to get articles
13:07 nengard it's too much nagging for me :)
13:07 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
13:07 slef want me to schedule them for you? ;-)
13:08 hdl nengard: the link could be done on the RFC around solr and the progress. iirc we posted that.
13:08 hdl or use the meetings logs.
13:09 nengard slef yes
13:09 slef nengard: You really don't want to know how many emails we send co-op members... one member's email was down for a few months and I reconnected him yesterday and he had 2800 emails.  Our daily newsletter is a lot of that.
13:09 nengard and hdl, actually I link to the RFC too in that newsletter so maybe we didn't need the two posts, but like I said I can't get enough content so I put them both in :)
13:10 nengard slef hehe - scary stuff :) hehe
13:11 hdl sorry nengard thanks for your action
13:11 slef nengard: yes to scheduling?  After I write the category idea, shall I base suggested reminders on your emails and send them to you for approval?
13:11 nengard slef yes to it all
13:11 nengard reminders and scheduling
13:11 nengard yes to anything that means less work for me :)
13:11 nengard yes to anything that means helping nengard do her many jobs :)
13:12 slef nengard: do I send to your on-list email address?
13:13 nengard yes please -
13:13 owen joined #koha
13:13 slef next meeting time anyone off the top of their head?
13:14 slef Next general meeting on 5 January 2011
13:14 slef heh, topic
13:15 nengard creating a wiki page
13:15 slef bbi60
13:16 slef nengard: and do you have somewhere with a crontab that can send email? I can run it, but then you rely on me stopping/changing if/when you want.
13:17 nengard someone who knows the time please update:[…]g,_5_January_2010
13:17 nengard slef I don't ...
13:18 nengard I could if needed but I'd probably need some instructions
13:23 hdl nengard: I think it was 9Pm ?
13:23 hdl (Paris time)
13:24 hdl (maybe previous logs could give you the precise time)
13:26 hdl thd: kf about communication, I donot think we did not communicate We are really willing to do things with the community. We organise meetings.
13:27 hdl we try to demonstrate.
13:27 thd hdl: I do not blame you.
13:28 thd hdl: I think that some problems could have been addressed with the LibLime support contract with Index Data.
13:28 kf hdl: yes, I see that you make an effort. I was talkign about the zebra problems you encountered.
13:28 kf at the last meeting you said: biblibre made a choice
13:29 hdl thd: it could have... But those problems were not encountered at that time...
13:29 kf I would liked to see this happen in the community - the whole, those problem exist, we tried that that that...see bug ....
13:30 thd hdl: It is very unfortunate that we had not recognised the lack of Unicode support from the outset with Zebra.
13:31 thd hdl: We could have been ahead of the issue if we had been aware of lack of Unicode support at the outset.
13:31 gmcharlt Zebra lacks Unicode support?  that is demonstrably false
13:32 hdl gmcharlt: it lacks unicode support for search.
13:33 hdl icu is a friend of yaz, not really integrated.
13:36 thd gmcharlt: Zebra had no support for searching using Unicode when Koha adopted Zebra and we had not even realised.
13:37 owen FWIW, NPL does not have a copy of a script to reconstruct 000 from other data in MARC
13:37 owen ...if anyone is still wondering.
13:37 thd owen: I doubted that you had the code.
13:37 gmcharlt thd: considering the hundreds of Koha installations that are successfully storing and searching MARC records using UTF-8, whatever applied at the time Zebra was adopted is a moot point
13:38 thd owen: However, I hoped that you would.
13:38 thd gmcharlt: I think that I still did not state it correctly.
13:38 owen thd: Considering some of the errors in our MARC records, I'm not sure how well it worked...
13:40 thd gmcharlt: Without the problematic implementation of the ICU for Zebra, there is no tokenisation and some other support for more than circa 250 characters in Zebra.
13:41 thd gmcharlt: Tokenisation without the ICU is based on single byte character encoding.
13:42 thd hdl: Can you help me distinguish better what cannot be done without using the ICU in Zebra?
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13:50 kf gmcharlt: without icu it's not possible to search for Hebrew - at least we found no other way
13:50 kf and using ICU means you loose some other features. but for our library it worked so far.
13:50 gmcharlt thanks - that is the sort of specific information I'm looking for
13:50 kf the facets as is are a problem - not sure how much of it is zebra and what could be solved and what not
13:51 kf gmcharlt: standard indexing and hebrew records meant you got always all hebrew records back - with every hebre search
13:51 kf term
13:51 kf we didn't see that with a few test records, but icu solved the problem and we were able to add rules ignore diacritics and such for seach
13:52 kf but some search options in koha don't work with icu - I have to retest that sometime with 3.2
13:54 druthb is now known as drb_mtg
13:54 gmcharlt kf: would you mind emailing me a few of your Hebrew MARC records?
13:56 kf gmcharlt: I can do that - but there is a problem
13:56 kf they have hebrew in 880
13:56 kf and not sure that is indexed in standard
13:56 hdl gmcharlt: I can send you some corean, some japanese hebrew unimarc records too
13:57 gmcharlt kf: no problem, I can deal with the 880s
13:57 gmcharlt hdl: thanks
13:57 hdl (they are committed in the solr branch iirc.)
13:57 owen jwagner: Two months ago you got an offer of help on Bug 3509. Did anything come of that?
13:57 kf ok, I will make a note - I have a sample file for my bug 5406 that I wanted to clean up - it has multiple languages too
13:57 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3509 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Batch item edit
13:57 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5406 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Allow Koha to authenticate using LDAPS as well as LDAP
13:57 kf ... 4506
13:57 kf bug 4506
13:57 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4506 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Add support of record linking by record control number in $w
13:57 owen s/Two/Six
13:57 kf *sighs*
14:00 kf gmcharlt: which email address?
14:00 gmcharlt gmcharlt at
14:01 kf ok
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14:07 thd gmcharlt: Some people had speculated that ICU problems with Zebra such as no facets were misconfiguration problems.
14:09 thd gmcharlt: I have determined that facet and truncation issues when using the ICU are confirmed bugs in the Index Data bugs database.
14:12 thd Unfortunately, I only found the official bug reports after scouring the documentation for configuration options which were not there to find.
14:17 owen If I got to test a patch for a bug marked "needs signoff" and the patch doesn't apply, should I mark it as "failed qa?"
14:18 owen s/got/go
14:24 gmcharlt owen: hmm - maybe mark it as 'patch does not apply'
14:24 gmcharlt less strong of a statement, as a patch failing to apply is often due to a matter of timing
14:25 owen I have been making comments to that effect, just didn't know if we needed a specific patch status
14:27 drb_mtg is now known as druthb
14:28 kf owen: perhaps set back to --?
14:29 kf gmcharlt: failed qa is a new status in the pull down - we don't have one for does not apply yet :)
14:30 gmcharlt kf: we do now :)
14:31 kf ah :)
14:45 Brooke joined #koha
14:48 Brooke[…]set+world+record/
14:49 jwagner owen, was off in a meeting -- sorry, what were you asking about?
14:50 owen jwagner: You got an offer of help on Bug 3509. Did anything come of that?
14:50 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3509 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Batch item edit
14:51 jwagner Nothing at the moment -- we haven't had time to go back and pull it up or work on it.
14:51 jwagner It's still on my list to do
14:51 jwagner Was just talking about that one, as a matter of fact -- trying to figure out how to merge functionality with what's in 3.2 now
14:52 slef owen: are we going with the liblime one or the parallel biblibre one?
14:52 jwagner There are parts of both that would be good to keep, question is how best to merge.  Which edit interface screen would be best? The one in our screenshot, or the BibLibre approach which looks like the standard item edit screen?
14:53 hdl slef which ?
14:53 slef hdl: batch item edit
14:55 wizzyrea Having seen both, NEKLS feels that the searching interface in the harley batch edit is too dangerous. We only train people to use the barcode entry portion of it.
14:55 hdl jwagner: if you would make the select interface a new page that would enter send  itemnumbers or barcodes to the tools in...
14:56 hdl Then it could be quite handy to reconcile both.
14:56 wizzyrea it is far too easy to select items unintentionally, and there's no undo
14:56 jwagner Yes, the ability to scan in barcodes at the batch edit screen is one of the things we liked about yours.
14:56 hdl librarians need a validation of the selection before doing update.
14:56 jwagner We wanted to bring that capability in.
14:56 jwagner hdl, and I've also had sites ask for output of the edit to go to a file or something more than just the screen display.
14:57 jwagner i.e., a report of which barcodes were edited.
15:00 hdl jwagner: that would be good.
15:01 hdl maybe we could serailize results in an array and use json or anything to display results.
15:07 drotsk joined #koha
15:07 * Brooke waves at drotsk
15:07 drotsk o/
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15:23 owen nengard: I agree about Bug 5500--I don't think it used to work that way.
15:23 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5500 major, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, shelf browse changing bib record
15:23 nengard good to know i'm not imaging things :)
15:23 nengard or imagining
15:24 gmcharlt nengard: paint us a picture ;)
15:26 Brooke galen, behave.
15:26 gmcharlt heh
15:27 * Brooke notes the Documentation Force is strong in this Channel.
15:28 kf nengard: I agree with you and owen
15:28 kf about bug 5500 :)
15:28 owen See also:[…]OPAC_Comments_RFC
15:29 owen ...which might as well be addressed to "The Great Pumpkin" since no one is putting up money for it :)
15:33 * Brooke has faith that on Samhain eve, the Great Pumpkin will in fact appear.
15:35 kf see you all tomorrow
15:35 kf hm or later
15:35 kf :)
15:35 kf left #koha
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15:50 Brooke @roulette
15:50 Brooke was kicked by munin: BANG!
15:50 * munin reloads and spins the chambers.
15:53 owen hdl still around?
15:53 hdl yes.
15:53 owen Hi, I'm looking at Bug 5157 and willing to test the patch but I don't understand what the problem is
15:53 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5157 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, henridamien, ASSIGNED, borrowers top issuers filters problems
15:57 hdl mmm... I think that this is one of the information we got.
15:57 hdl can't find an instance.
16:01 hdl can't find an official instance of dev to test that.
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16:11 Oak \o
16:27 slef o/
16:34 owen jwagner?
16:34 ibot i heard jwagner was needing a vacation.
16:34 * jwagner definitely needs a vacation!
16:34 jwagner Maybe I can go back to New Zealand....
16:34 owen jwagner: I'm testing the patch for Bug 4329 and I have a question
16:35 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4329 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, NEW, OPAC search by shelving location option
16:35 jwagner yes?
16:35 owen Do you need to modify the configuration of zebra?
16:35 jwagner Shouldn't have to -- shelving location is one of the delivered searches as far as I know.
16:36 jwagner melm 952$c      location
16:36 jwagner Unless a site has modified record.abs (or maybe early sites didn't have that?) should work as is.
16:36 owen Okay, now I'm getting results. I guess you can't get results if all you do is check the box but don't supply search terms
16:37 jwagner No, I got results just by checking the box.  Dumb question -- did you search a location that you knew had items?
16:37 owen Hm, maybe not.
16:38 jwagner And a question for you -- I didn't control this with a syspref partly because so many people were complaining about proliferating sysprefs at the time.  But do you think it should be?
16:38 jwagner You can hide it with a jquery -- I designed it that way -- but maybe a syspref would be better?
16:38 owen The presence of the shelving location search?
16:38 jwagner Yes, on the advanced search screen.  Some sites don't use shelving locations.
16:39 owen I would be content to make it a default and wait for others to clamor for a system pref.
16:39 wizzyrea probably the code to suppress something you've added should be in the bug report with the patch. But that's (a lot of extra) work
16:40 wizzyrea though I'm for adding that kind of stuff to the wiki
16:40 wizzyrea also work
16:40 owen It is in this case
16:42 jwagner wizzyrea, the jquery to hide it is in the bugzilla entry.
16:42 owen I find myself expecting that if I search by itemtype and shelving location I expect it to do an AND search rather than OR
16:43 wizzyrea for that one, it is
16:43 owen Is that just me?
16:43 wizzyrea i'm thinking of the other ones ;)
16:43 jwagner No, that's one of the problems with combining searches, I think.
16:44 owen Searching by keyword + itemtype gives me an AND search
16:45 jwagner It's been so long since I worked on this, can't remember details.  I do remember a lot of trouble getting it to OR within the location set if you selected multiples.
16:46 owen wizzyrea: Is the shelving loc. search on your system?
16:47 * owen can see for himself
16:48 cait joined #koha
16:48 cait hi #koha
16:48 drotsk hi cait
16:48 wizzyrea lemme check, hi cait
16:48 cait hi drotsk and wizzyrea
16:49 jwagner owen, it's on Arcadia's OPAC (they sponsored):
16:49 jwagner[…]ha/
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16:58 Brooke Tēnā koutou
16:58 owen munin blew you far away Brooke
16:58 munin owen: Error: "blew" is not a valid command.
16:59 Brooke Ko Omàmiwininiwak te iwi.
16:59 Brooke owen, that is Munin's way of telling me to do "real work."
17:02 owen I wonder if Bug 3693 wouldn't be better implemented as a CSS customization
17:02 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3693 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Display options for buttons when holds triggered
17:05 jwagner owen, the dev server where I did the shelving location work is gone.  Can someone remind me how to bring a branch down from a remote server?  I can see it on the git repo, how do I create a local branch with that code so I can work on it?
17:06 jwagner On 3693, maybe css would work better.  At the time I didn't know how to do it any other way.  Sysprefs might be easier for sites to implement, though.
17:11 owen jwagner:[…]ry-2010/#biblibre
17:11 owen ...for an example.
17:12 jwagner Thanks -- finally deciphered my sketchy notes too
17:21 wizzyrea jcamins: we made the gnocchi last night -- Totally awesome, and super fast when you steam the potatoes
17:22 wizzyrea and the spud gobbled them up
17:22 jcamins Mmmm.
17:22 * jcamins just finished having gnocchi for lunch
17:22 * Brooke is jealous.
17:22 jcamins Brooke: they're super easy.
17:22 Brooke lies!
17:23 jcamins Somewhere in the scrollback is the recipe.
17:23 jcamins wizzyrea can confirm they're super easy.
17:24 wizzyrea they are in fact super easy
17:24 wizzyrea like, so easy you'll wonder why you don't eat gnocchi all the time
17:24 jcamins See? wizzyrea can confirm
17:24 wizzyrea and then you probably will
17:24 wizzyrea eat gnocchi all the time
17:24 jcamins wizzyrea: wait, "why you don't eat gnocchi all the time"?
17:24 jcamins Errr... don't you?
17:24 jcamins ;)
17:24 Brooke I've made them many times before
17:24 wizzyrea these happen to have been made with sweet potatoes
17:25 jcamins Brooke: then you should know they're super easy
17:25 Brooke bah
17:25 * Brooke likes leveraging her pasta machine for labour savingses.
17:25 owen Maybe Brooke thinks if she protests too much someone will break down and mail her some?
17:25 cait hehe
17:25 jcamins owen: has that worked for you yet?
17:26 * owen hasn't complained enough about anything yet
17:26 Brooke because owen is not a whiner :D
17:27 wizzyrea left #koha
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17:27 wizzyrea oops
17:27 jcamins Sneaky Command-W?
17:27 wizzyrea lol ya
17:29 jwagner owen, I've been looking at the search code, but i can't see where it decides to use AND or OR.  Any pointers?
17:29 jcamins Hey, didn't it used to be an Apple key?
17:29 owen Sorry jwagner no idea
17:31 jcamins (yes, it did)
17:31 * Brooke nods at jcamins
17:31 cait koha++
17:31 cait @karma koha
17:31 munin cait: Karma for "koha" has been increased 17 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 17.
17:31 cait hm!
17:31 Brooke it's okay, though, soon Mr. Fairey will come and label it "obey".
17:37 jcamins Okay, time to get going.
17:37 jcamins So long, #koha
17:37 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
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18:04 Brooke Ka kite anō.
18:04 Brooke left #koha
18:05 wizzyrea owen: re 3262 I don't think the full name is being generated by the script for the homebranch
18:05 wizzyrea I personally would like to have them both standard on the code :P
18:06 wizzyrea but I understand why people would want the full name, since not everyone uses sane library codes
18:06 wizzyrea and I don't mean that as an indictment of how others do things
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18:32 brendan @wunder 93117
18:32 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 13.3�C (10:34 AM PST on December 15, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014.4 hPa (Falling).
18:32 druthb @wunder 20852
18:32 munin druthb: The current temperature in Woodley Gardens, Rockville, Maryland is -1.8�C (1:30 PM EST on December 15, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 34%. Dew Point: -16.0�C. Windchill: -5.0�C. Pressure: 29.81 in 1009.4 hPa (Steady).
18:32 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence, ks
18:32 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is -1.1�C (12:34 PM CST on December 15, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: -5.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005.0 hPa (Falling).
18:33 nengard @wunder 19030
18:33 munin nengard: The current temperature in CWOP # AR939, Penndel, Pennsylvania is -2.7�C (1:35 PM EST on December 15, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: -14.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.72 in 1006.3 hPa (Steady).
18:34 wizzyrea nengard: glad you made it home safely from your car debacle yesterday
18:34 nengard thanks - that was no fun
18:34 wizzyrea AAA++
18:34 nengard it was bitterly bitterly cold and windy
18:35 nengard and the only thing that was hot was the burning engine
18:35 nengard or smoking engine
18:35 wizzyrea this last summer my car overheated on the hottest day of the year
18:35 brendan It seems that most of you are going to be jealous of my daily temps - so I'll make sure to check daily
18:35 chris Morning from the bus
18:35 wizzyrea mornin'
18:35 brendan heya chris - wizzyrea et a;
18:35 brendan al
18:35 chris @wunder wellington nz
18:35 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0�C (7:00 AM NZDT on December 16, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
18:35 wizzyrea <3
18:36 brendan ooh  chris squeaks out an early morning win
18:36 chris Heh
18:37 nengard looks like we should have had KohaCon in Dec instead :)
18:38 chris I thought the weather was ok
18:38 cait good morning chris
18:39 chris December has been a lot more humid and rainy
18:39 wizzyrea it was windy and chillish but not awful
18:39 wizzyrea didn't keep us in
18:39 cait @wunder Konstanz
18:39 munin cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is -5.8�C (7:40 PM CET on December 15, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: -8.0�C. Windchill: -9.0�C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026.0 hPa (Steady).
18:42 nengard chris i was cold most days
18:42 chris I told you layers sheesh :)
18:43 * cait thought really liked the weather :)
18:43 cait -thought
18:46 chris Jan/feb are the best months
18:46 nengard chris - yes you did - I don't blame you at all
18:46 nengard I brought light layers :)
18:50 gmcharlt it has been below 0 C in Gainesville for the past week
18:50 chris I just hope it is fine on the 27th
18:50 gmcharlt consequently, everybody is dressing as if it were Anchorage
18:50 nengard hehe
18:51 chris Kristina is going to her first cricket game
18:51 nengard yeah i was in FL a week ago - panhandle - and everyone had scarfs and coats
18:51 cait :)
18:51 cait hope she has fun
18:54 chris I'm sure she will
18:55 cait :)
18:56 chris Ok my stop
18:56 chris Bb after coffee
18:59 Oak left #koha
19:07 owen minimum requirement system for windows: one Debian ISO </snark>
19:08 drotsk priceless
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19:09 chris back
19:10 cait joined #koha
19:10 cait back
19:11 owen wb chris and cait
19:11 chris owen, i basically said that
19:12 cait oh so many windows mails today
19:12 chris friends dont let friends use proprietary software
19:13 cait lol
19:14 chris ohh a pull request for the qa'd serials work, ill pull that down and do some testing on that myself then push it up
19:14 cait I am working more with the old laptop (ubuntu) than with my newer one (vista) since kohacon
19:16 * chris makes a bug for it, so he doesnt break his commits have a bugnumber rule
19:16 cait clever :)
19:17 chris bug 5508
19:17 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5508 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, colin.campbell, NEW, Biblibre Serials work
19:18 chris[…]/new/enh/bug_5508
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19:34 owen Colin++
19:35 chris yup
19:35 chris colin++
19:36 owen He managed to get so much done, yet we rarely see him around here. Is there a connection?
19:37 cait colin++
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19:44 briceSanc hello all !
19:46 * owen is closing on a fix for Bug 3523
19:46 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3523 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED, Menu of existing lists limited to 10
19:46 chris yay
19:48 briceSanc Does Koha is freeze in 3.2.2 ?
19:48 chris template freeze
19:48 briceSanc C4 freeze ?
19:48 chris no, just template
19:48 briceSanc ok
19:49 chris chris n sent a mail yesterday
19:49 briceSanc Do you have estimated the remaining time ?
19:49 chris did you see the email?
19:50 chris http://lists.koha-community.or[…]ember/034871.html
19:51 briceSanc no i don't see this mail
19:51 chris ahh it went to koha-devel and koha-translate .. if you are working on either, those are 2 lists you should be on :)
19:52 briceSanc i'm on request and patches, devel is missing
19:54 chris devel is a good one to be on thats for sure
19:54 chris its quite low traffic, but thats where things like hte release schedule, and rfc etc are talked about
19:54 briceSanc you're right !
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19:57 munin New commit(s) kohagit: bug 5398: make additional pages in staff interface obey noItemTypeImages <[…]82a25ee2450470e79> / bug 4826 change 'add basket' to 'new basket' <[…]4c39654049b890951>
19:59 druthb is now known as drb_brb
20:00 hudsonbot Starting build 221 for job Koha_Master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #188 8 days 23 hr ago)
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20:08 Brooke Tēnā koutou
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20:17 drb_brb is now known as druthb
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20:22 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #221: STILL UNSTABLE in 22 min: http://hudson.koha-community.o[…]/Koha_Master/221/
20:22 hudsonbot * Nicole Engard: bug 4826 change 'add basket' to 'new basket'
20:22 jwagner left #koha
20:22 hudsonbot * Galen Charlton: bug 5398: make additional pages in staff interface obey noItemTypeImages
20:28 druthb @karma Brooke
20:28 munin druthb: Karma for "Brooke" has been increased 4 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 3.
20:28 druthb :-O
20:28 druthb Brooke++ #has her reasons, okay?
20:29 wizzyrea chris: for 5143 do we need to update the database with those koha -> marc mappings or just document and trust people will add them?
20:31 chris for subtitle?
20:31 wizzyrea right
20:31 chris the keyword mapping?
20:31 wizzyrea yep
20:32 chris probably should edit the help file for that page
20:32 chris to tell them to
20:32 wizzyrea right-o
20:32 wizzyrea will do
20:32 chris thanks
20:32 wizzyrea yup :)
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20:49 nengard are we talking about a koha help file that's being edited? If so let me know so I can update the manual to match
20:49 nengard those help files are usually copies of the manual
20:49 wizzyrea yeap
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20:55 thd is now known as thd-away
21:05 wizzyrea ohh.... bug or intentional: WARNING: You will not be able save, because your webserver cannot write to '/home/liz/kohaclone/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/pr​og/en/modules/help/circ/view_holdsqueue.tmpl'. Contact your admin about help file permissions.
21:06 Brooke are joo a superlibrarian?
21:06 wizzyrea yep, it's not those permissions, it's file system permissions
21:06 wizzyrea I could fix this, easily
21:07 wizzyrea but I don't know if it's intentional
21:08 wizzyrea I should mention that the change I proposed I'm not making this way, I was curious and clicked on it
21:13 gmcharlt apropos of nothing except wizzyrea's request
21:13 gmcharlt only superlibrarians can be trusted with capes
21:13 * Brooke grins
21:13 wizzyrea yay!
21:13 wizzyrea @quote add gmcharlt: only superlibrarians can be trusted with capes
21:13 munin wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
21:14 Brooke hmph. Oirish seems to have disapparated from Pootle.
21:14 wizzyrea @quote add gmcharlt: only superlibrarians can be trusted with capes
21:14 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #112 added.
21:14 wizzyrea woot!
21:15 wizzyrea @quote random
21:15 munin wizzyrea: Quote #10: "< pianohacker> You helped start an open source project; clearly your sense of what to avoid to make your life easier has been impaired for a while :)" (added by chris at 07:59 PM, June 23, 2009)
21:15 wizzyrea @quote random
21:15 munin wizzyrea: Quote #107: "<kmkale> This is a food channel. Sometimes we discuss Koha too ;)" (added by jwagner at 02:49 PM, November 29, 2010)
21:15 wizzyrea @quote random
21:15 munin wizzyrea: Quote #71: "cait: hm it works now and I have no idea why :)" (added by chris at 07:47 PM, April 08, 2010)
21:32 ebegin joined #koha
21:33 * Brooke waves at ebegin
21:33 ebegin Hey!
21:33 wizzyrea left #koha
21:33 wizzyrea joined #koha
21:33 ebegin @wunder montreal quebec
21:33 munin ebegin: The current temperature in Montreal, Quebec is -12.0�C (4:17 PM EST on December 15, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: N/A%. Windchill: -21.0�C. Pressure: (Rising).
21:34 ebegin ... cold ...
21:34 Brooke but, your croissants are not crap.
21:34 Brooke Silver lining :)
21:34 ebegin :)
21:36 ebegin Brooke, is it summer now in NZ?
21:37 Brooke Em, I think that hypothesis requires in person exploration.
21:37 Brooke I'll volunteer for the expedition.
21:37 Brooke Selflessly, of course.
21:37 Brooke (But yes, course it is.)
21:37 ebegin Oh!  sorry, I though you were there.
21:38 ebegin Where are you ? Virginia?
21:38 Brooke a yep
21:41 Brooke left #koha
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22:28 thd-away is now known as thd
22:29 thd is now known as thd-away
22:46 wasabi joined #koha
22:48 chris hdl: you still awake?
22:48 hdl still
22:49 chris go to sleep ;-)
22:49 chris but before you do
22:50 chris[…]b259cbdc7e13e3b8f
22:50 chris anything you want to change there?
22:50 chris just fixed the copyright statements getting ready from the merge, its passing all the unit tests now
22:51 hdl ok for me.
22:51 hdl doing night house keeping on our servers.
22:51 chris ah cool
22:52 chris ok, just have to do a little more testing, but this should be merged before you wake up tomorrow
22:52 chris but now, lunch
22:53 hdl have a nice meal
23:48 hdl left #koha

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