IRC log for #koha, 2010-06-02

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
01:08 chris_n @wunder 28334
01:08 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 23.1�C (9:06 PM EDT on June 01, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1000.9 hPa (Falling).
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01:20 brendan heya chris_n
01:20 chris_n howdy brendan
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02:56 brendan phasefx_ stay still
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03:22 Amit heya chris, brendan
03:23 brendan hey Amit
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08:14 cait morning #koha
08:14 Colin morning cait
08:14 jransom hiya all
08:16 magnus anyone here going to ELAG in Helsinki next week? interested in some kind of koha meetup?
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08:42 reed chris,  -- think we could get buzilla to act like wrms and adapt tim's autobuild goo for koha RCs?
08:45 reed maybe we even fund tim to do the adaptation, he'd enjoy that
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08:54 kmkale Good afternoon
08:57 slef morning... meeting in 2 hours?
08:58 cait in 1 I think
09:00 paul_p slef, cait is right, meeting in 1 hour
09:01 slef ok, sorry, I was reading from my calendar
09:01 slef someone had already adjusted to BST
09:01 slef thanks davi ;-)
09:01 cait hi paul_p
09:02 cait and hi slef, sorry, still reading mails
09:04 slef cait: bah. I have 4500 of them queued :(
09:04 slef one of my mailservers was offline earlier - hopefully not due to my mailbox!
09:04 cait thats why I still read my mails when on vacation
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09:20 davi np
09:33 chris reed: yep i am sure we could do that
09:34 reed cool
09:34 reed I'll drop tim a note, he'll get all antsy and excited and have it done by the morning
09:35 chris heh
09:35 chris people would have to name their branches after a bug
09:35 chris which is no bad thing
09:35 reed which'll put us behind on the world cup stuff but..
09:35 reed i have to say I really to like the scheme we've been using
09:36 reed i thought it was crazy but it really works
09:36 chris or i'd do that, ie when a patch comes in, make a branch
09:36 chris apply it to that, the autobuilder merges it
09:36 chris (when we set some status)
09:36 chris hudson runs tests
09:37 chris asplodes, we pull the branch back out
09:37 chris it doesnt asplode, it stays in
09:37 reed could auto-set the status so it drops out of next build
09:37 chris yep
09:38 reed er, there's a merge fail list that comes in the autobuild mail
09:38 chris yeah
09:38 reed that protects the build
09:39 reed separate is the merge test w/fail mails
09:39 reed but yeah, separate test after the build which would take part of Kathy's job
09:39 reed cool
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09:42 chris evening larsw
09:42 larsw good evening
09:42 reed hey
09:43 larsw am I right that there's a meeting in 15 min?
09:43 reed i think so
09:44 chris 10 UTC
09:44 chris so yeah 15 mins i think
09:45 chris yep, thats what wolframalpha tells me
09:45 chris
09:47 * kmkale thinks 10 UTC is a gr8 time to have meetings
09:48 chris pretty early for the usians, but works for the rest of us :)
09:49 chris i like the idea of shifting it round, so no everyone has to do a bad time at least once :)
09:49 reed ooh, yeah, so, is pretty bad for US west coast
09:50 chris yeah, brendan sends his apologies
09:50 vokalrcp OK for east coast, though :)
09:50 reed 6am?
09:50 vokalrcp Yup
09:50 reed ick
09:50 chris hello vermont :-)
09:51 vokalrcp Hello back atcha
09:52 gmcharlt good morning
09:53 vokalrcp Good morning
09:53 * gmcharlt offers a shiny new free ILS to whoever sends coffee
09:53 chris heh
09:54 Colin one virtual espresso coming up
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09:54 chris hiya Colin
09:55 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: giving you coffe.
09:55 gmcharlt hdl_laptop++
09:55 gmcharlt Colin++
09:56 chris  <-- im addicted to the nz version of these, the cafe i get my morning coffee from sells them
09:58 vokalrcp YUM!
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09:59 chris morning nengard
09:59 thd-away is now known as thd
09:59 jransom evening all
10:00 vokalrcp Morning! :)
10:00 thd I have been too sleep deprived for a month.
10:01 nengard i'm so going to lock my boy up today!!! we were woken up by him jumping on the bed and off the bed and spinning around on the floor and on the bed and off the bed!!
10:01 nengard and he knows what time we wake up - and it's not at 5am
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10:01 davi no comment :)
10:01 gmcharlt it's now time for the meeting
10:01 gmcharlt[…]ting,_June_2_2010
10:02 thd nengard: You should discover the joy of jumping on beds
10:02 nengard hehe
10:02 kmkale_ is now known as kmkale
10:02 gmcharlt let's start with a round of intros
10:02 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.2 RM
10:02 cait = Katrin Fischer
10:03 jransom Joann Ransom, HLT, NZ
10:03 * slef = MJ Ray, member of
10:03 davi Davi Diaz (worker for
10:03 bgkriegel joined #koha
10:03 magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:03 Colin = Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe
10:03 reed Reed Wade, Catalyst, NZ
10:03 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:03 * larsw = Lars Wirzenius, Catalyst IT (did some Debian packaging for Koha)
10:03 * nengard = Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions
10:03 chris chris cormack, catalyst IT
10:03 vokalrcp =Richard Pritsky, vokal
10:03 kmkale =Koustubha Kale and
10:04 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre SARL
10:04 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, Release maintainer 3.0
10:05 chris oh yeah, RM 3.4
10:05 bgkriegel bgkriegel, Cordoba, Argentina,
10:07 * paul_p Paul Poulain, BibLibre (almost here, not 100% maybe)
10:07 hdl_laptop (congrats bgkriegel)
10:08 juan Juan Sieira, Xercode Media Software, Spain
10:08 miguel hi, Miguel A. Calvo, Xercode , Spain
10:08 bgkriegel thank you hdl_laptop
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10:09 slef gmcharlt: are you there and ready to give Update on Roadmap to 3.2?
10:10 slef I think maybe gmcharlt is fighting a grue.  Maybe hdl_laptop would like to start with the Update on Roadmap to 3.0?
10:10 juan yes
10:10 hdl_laptop slef: ok..
10:10 hdl_laptop 3.0.6 was released.
10:11 slef yippee!
10:11 hdl_laptop I think one more release and we are set.
10:11 hdl_laptop 3.2 will be the stable release.
10:13 slef OK - anything else?
10:13 slef Any idea when that release will be?
10:14 chris and what will it contain?
10:14 chris are the bugs in 3.0.6 that require a 3.0.7?
10:15 gmcharlt the agenda is
10:15 gmcharlt #  Update on Roadmap to 3.2.
10:15 gmcharlt # Update on Roadmap to 3.0.
10:15 gmcharlt Discuss switching licensing for all new code submissions to Affero General Public License (AGPL)
10:15 gmcharlt (If time permits) Revisit vendor listing requirements on
10:15 gmcharlt address:
10:15 gmcharlt Agree times of next meetings.
10:15 gmcharlt regarding 3.2
10:15 gmcharlt I am close to being ready to release the beta
10:15 gmcharlt at this point, several blockers are yet to be resolved
10:15 gmcharlt at present, the most important ones are
10:15 gmcharlt @bug 4310
10:15 * gmcharlt pauses to kick munin
10:15 munin gmcharlt: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2
10:15 gmcharlt any, bug 4310 - no migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2
10:15 gmcharlt bug 4141 - reconciliation of database changes from 3.0.x to 3.2
10:15 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2
10:15 gmcharlt bug 3756 - no way to add local use sysprefs
10:15 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4141 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, reconcile 3.0.x and HEAD database updates for 3.2.0
10:15 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3756 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, new sys prefs - no way to add a new local use preference
10:15 slef wb gmcharlt
10:15 gmcharlt most of the other remaining blockers are for 3.4
10:15 gmcharlt or appear to be ready to close but just need the reporter to confirm
10:15 gmcharlt consequently, assuming adequate progress on those, I expect to release the beta some time next week
10:15 gmcharlt once the beta is out, there will be a total string freeze
10:15 gmcharlt questions thus far?
10:15 * gmcharlt is back
10:15 gmcharlt sorry, net access had dropped
10:15 * gmcharlt checks the IRC logs to see what he needs to paste back
10:15 slef maybe hdl_laptop would like to answer chris, while we digest gmcharlt's resync-flood
10:16 hdl_laptop there are still some bugs in 3.0.7 that we fixed.
10:16 hdl_laptop And those fix will hit 3.2.
10:17 hdl_laptop those bugs are referenced in and nahuel sent patches
10:17 slef I'm pretty sure we've published some fixes which haven't been included yet, that I need to rebase, retest and send a pull-request.  Is better than was?
10:17 gmcharlt slef: yes, use
10:18 davi I think the migration to is complete
10:18 gmcharlt regarding release of 3.2
10:19 gmcharlt what I would like to ask for at this point is a pause for people to focus on 3.2 for the next couple weeks rather than 3.4
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10:19 slef davi: I still meet lots of broken links on
10:19 gmcharlt sooner 3.2 is wrapped up, the sooner we can devote all of our energies to 3.4
10:20 chris i agree
10:20 gmcharlt to that end, I would like to request
10:20 davi ack slef
10:20 gmcharlt (a) please go through all of your open bugs; any that can be closed, please do so
10:20 gmcharlt w/o naming names, there are several individuals who have dozens or even hundreds of bugs who they opened that can be closed now
10:21 gmcharlt and even if we don't get that cleaned up for 3.2, we need to clean that up soon
10:21 gmcharlt possible planning for a big bug culling as 3.4 gets underway
10:21 gmcharlt (b) please focus on blockers and major acq bugs
10:22 gmcharlt and I issue a special call to BibLibre to help out on this - there are a number of bugs for new_acq that have been reported
10:22 slef Did I see that we can email bugzilla now?  Can we get lists and/or close bugs by email?
10:23 hdl_laptop BibLibre will do.
10:23 gmcharlt slef: AFAIK, emailing bugzilla let's you create a bug or update one; dunno if you can close a bug that way, maybe chris would know
10:23 chris nope, you cant
10:24 gmcharlt any other questions about 3.2?
10:24 slef only that bug 4141 seems like hell - are there enough people to work on it?
10:24 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4141 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, reconcile 3.0.x and HEAD database updates for 3.2.0
10:25 chris i will be sending some fixes for acquisitions in the next few weeks
10:25 larsw gmcharlt, I will probably want to fix some more things in the Debian packaging, is that ok to send patches for? (i.e., are they likely to be accepted or just noise right now?)
10:25 chris as i fix them at HLT
10:25 gmcharlt slef: that will need a full court press; me, chris, hdl_laptop, possibly chris_n when he gets back from vacation
10:25 gmcharlt any help on that one gratefully accepted
10:25 nengard slef: re wiki links - these are the pages I didn't get to move over:[…]ecial:WantedPages before the old site went down - as for links to outside sites I didn't check them - was just rushing to get the stuff moved
10:26 gmcharlt larsw: debian packaging fixes are fine - at this point, they are pretty much auto-accepted by me
10:27 larsw nengard, would running an automatic link checker against the website and/or the wiki be helpful?
10:27 nengard whatever works for the most people :)
10:28 cait I have two more patches ready, addition of $w subfields to all marc21 frameworks and an index for them, any chance to get them in? or just send an mark them for 3.4?
10:28 gmcharlt thd: ^^ could you check for whether MediaWIki has a built-in link checker (for external links?)
10:28 chris i think 4141 is a good example of what we dont want to do with 3.2.x and 3.4.x .. i think database changes in the stable branch should not be made unless they are made first in the development branch and backported
10:29 davi chris++
10:29 thd gmcharlt: anything which is not built in to MediaWiki is available by extension or script
10:29 hdl_laptop most of the database changes were systempreferences adding
10:29 chris i think the rule still applies
10:30 slef I remain of the opinion that breaking database changes into small SQL files and using Make or similar to resolve the dependencies is the way to make that easier, but this is an argument I've failed to persuade people about before already, so I'm not going to dwell on it unless people are interested to hear it again.
10:30 gmcharlt well, one thing to consider for 3.4 is removing the need to have an explicit database update for new sysprefs; I think we're 80% of the way towards being able to do that
10:31 chris *nod*
10:31 gmcharlt slef: one of the possibilities offered by DBIx::Class, which chris is proposing for 3.4, is that it can help automate most schema updates
10:32 chris in fact the schema parts of DBIx::Class are what interest me most
10:32 gmcharlt which may remove some of the redundancy of having one file with the complete schema and a separate script that updates a database
10:32 gmcharlt but dragging this conversation back to 3.2
10:32 chris :)
10:32 gmcharlt any questions before we move on?
10:32 slef I've not reviewed that proposal.  I'm still very much back in 3.0, which is frustrating but a challenge I must deal with.
10:33 chris not from me, i think its up to us to get the blockers fixed so you can release it
10:33 slef Not from me.
10:33 chris i dont think anyone could ask anything else from you
10:33 gmcharlt ok
10:33 gmcharlt the next agenda item is 3.0 - hdl_laptop mentioned plans to release a 3.0.7, which will be the final release on 3.0.x (assuming no security critical bug crops up, I assume)
10:33 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: anything more you'd like to say about 3.0.x?
10:34 hdl_laptop no.
10:34 hdl_laptop unless you have questions.
10:35 slef not from me
10:36 gmcharlt ok, thanks
10:36 gmcharlt onward
10:36 gmcharlt follow up from action items from last meeting - I think there were none
10:37 gmcharlt so, unless there is something to follow-up on, moving to
10:37 gmcharlt #  Discuss switching licensing for all new code submissions to Affero General Public License (AGPL)
10:37 thd I have been consulting with SFLC on what would be required
10:38 thd I had a meeting with Aaron Williams at SFLC last week
10:38 thd Not all my questions have been answered
10:39 slef I think this is a really bad idea as explained in[…]0-May/023816.html
10:39 gmcharlt thd: you were asking about the AGPL?
10:39 thd gmcharlt: Yes
10:39 thd I have also been asking about objections from slef
10:39 thd I have been very thorough
10:39 slef Is there code under *GPLv3 which we want to integrate imminently?
10:40 gmcharlt thd: since this is a matter of general *project* debate, I would like to ask you to send a precis of your discussions with Aaron to koha-devel as soon as practical
10:40 thd I fell asleep at midnight drafting the answers thus far
10:40 thd I have been much sleep deprived the past month
10:41 davi Under AGPLv3, vendor lock-in is not possible:   That is false (still achievable through access control, particularly to the databases)
10:41 davi you have to provide source download
10:41 thd Unfortunately, there is no email response to simply post
10:41 davi of course not data base download, as data is owned ususaly by each user individually
10:42 davi I own my photo, and so on
10:42 gmcharlt slef: there is no GPL3 code that I'm aware of that we have a specific technical desire to integrate into Koha at the moment
10:42 gmcharlt of course, that could change at any point giving a sufficiently shiny new dependency that would be a useful addition to Koha
10:42 slef davi: you are making my point.  The vendor can lock the database to offsite access.  AGPLv3 does not (and a copyright license cannot) prevent that.
10:42 thd I had finished drafting a list of questions in the middle of the month but I could not obtain immediate answers
10:42 davi protect against source code locking in hosting a the plush of AGPLv3
10:43 davi plus*
10:43 davi addition*
10:43 thd I added slef's issues about which I intended to follow up during my meeting
10:43 davi (read the added license section)
10:43 davi is it just the GPLv3 with a new section
10:43 gmcharlt protection of the access to the library's data if they are hosted is probably best done as a contractual matter; and it's increasingly common for libraries to insist on that
10:44 thd Some answers are awaiting Aaron consulting with Eben Moglen who has been travelling.
10:44 davi slef, without AGPLv3 the vendor can lock both data and _source code_
10:44 davi which a fork actually
10:44 jransom left #koha
10:44 gmcharlt I think AGPL3, insofar as it we're debating it, is relevant to the source code only
10:44 chris *nod*
10:44 thd gmcharlt: We could write a script available on the admin side to dump the database for the user.
10:44 slef So libraries should simply add access to the program code as a contractual matter too.  It's in's contracts in a much clearer and less obnoxious manner than AGPL3.
10:45 davi AGPLv3 do not force publish data, of course.  That would be a lack of common sense
10:45 gmcharlt thd: yep - in fact, such a script was submitted by larsw recently
10:45 reed it could be worth handling the data lock in issue via a code of conduct
10:45 thd ... I mean a script available from the web interface of course
10:45 chris thd: thats what it is
10:45 gmcharlt thd: yep, that's what I mean
10:45 davi AGPLv3 protect against lock-in the source code. It does not talk about data
10:45 davi base
10:46 thd davi: Yes, data is not covered by the license for the software
10:46 davi *nod*
10:46 * gmcharlt has a suggestion
10:47 gmcharlt which is to punt - since thd has taken upon himself to ask the SFLC about the legalities, I suggest that we wait for him to report back to koha-devel
10:47 chris yep
10:47 reed +1
10:47 larsw I agree, but suggest we have a deadline so this does not drag on indefinitely
10:47 gmcharlt and table this for now
10:47 davi +1
10:47 slef Trouble is, people seem to argue against me based on whether access to source code is a good thing: I acknowledge it is, but I don't think that AGPL is a good form of it.
10:47 slef gmcharlt: s/table/shelve/
10:47 thd You can make the deadline for initial report today
10:47 slef or postpone, even clearer
10:48 thd There are more responses and clarification yet needed from SFLC.
10:48 gmcharlt thd: larsw: in that case, given that the report is expected imminintly, I propose this
10:48 gmcharlt that the issue become the topic of a special IRC meeting to be held in July
10:49 gmcharlt with the goal of organizing a project vote some time that month
10:49 chris +!
10:49 thd There are some major issues about which I do not yet have a complete answer.
10:49 chris 1 even
10:49 davi +1
10:49 larsw +1
10:49 gmcharlt to settle, at least for now, whether we go with GPL3, APGL3, or remain at the status quo
10:49 Colin +1
10:49 thd +1
10:49 hdl_laptop +1
10:49 slef +0 I am away both ends of July in places where connectivity is uncertain.
10:50 larsw (switching to agpl3+ for new code is fairly low-risk, if we keep track of copyright owners, and can get them to agree to go back to gpl2+ or gpl3+ if we decide that agpl3+ was a bad idea)
10:50 thd slef should be present
10:50 gmcharlt thd: I agree
10:50 thd as I pointed out at the previous meeting
10:50 gmcharlt slef: does early August work better?
10:50 slef larsw: depends if you regard agpl3 as low risk with all its unanswered questions.
10:50 chris lets not debate it now
10:51 slef gmcharlt: no.  July avoiding ends would be fine.
10:51 larsw slef, switching to agpl and then back is a pretty low-risk thing regardless of what agpl says
10:51 larsw (but enough for now)
10:51 davi larsw, slef:   I see all question rightly answered. People have just to read the license
10:51 gmcharlt slef: OK, then mid-July
10:51 gmcharlt looking at calendar
10:52 gmcharlt I propose Tuesday, 13 July for the discussion
10:52 thd davi: There are issues which even I had not expected.
10:52 slef gmcharlt: +1
10:52 thd +1
10:52 hdl_laptop +1
10:52 davi thd, I have put AGPLv3 into practise and I have not had any issue. Other project has done the same. No problems detected
10:52 larsw +1
10:52 tajoli joined #koha
10:52 davi +1
10:53 gmcharlt 19:00 UTC+0?
10:53 thd davi: as slef correctly identifies, there are burdens with the license
10:53 slef davi: you lost at least one contributor.
10:54 slef gmcharlt: ok
10:54 davi thd, We have not detected any one, neither FSF on several projects
10:54 davi It will be good to hear them at the next IRC meeting
10:54 thd davi: detected?
10:55 gmcharlt OK, then Tuesday 13 July at 19:00 UTC+0 there will be a special IRC meeting to discuss the licensing question, and to either vote on (or arrange an email poll or other type of vote) to settle the issue for 3.4
10:55 chris cool
10:55 thd davi: Did you mean contacted?
10:55 hdl_laptop ok
10:56 davi thd, We have not detected any AGPLv3 license burden while using and applying it on several projects
10:56 slef I would be interested to know what will happen to GPL2 or GPL2+/GPL3+ contributions if the majority choose AGPL3+ - rejection? Alternative branch?
10:56 slef but that's not for now
10:56 chris there should be no GPL2 code, its all GPL2+
10:56 gmcharlt agreed, we need to move on in the agenda
10:56 thd slef: that is a possibility if people want that
10:56 chris but yeah lets move
10:56 gmcharlt 5. Revisit vendor listing requirements on
10:56 davi What would happen to GPLv3/AGPLv3 contribution if the majority choose GPLv2
10:57 davi ?
10:57 thd davi: alternative builds perhaps
10:57 slef OK, I proposed anti-privatisation and linkback requirements.
10:57 davi thd, ack
10:58 chris i say list everyone or list no one
10:58 slef I feel that it's a mistake to link from koha-community to koha companies that oppose the community, through either holding domains/TMs/other legal tricks, or by linking only to other community sites.
10:58 thd +1 chris
10:58 eiro_ hello world
10:59 slef chris: why do you want to force it to be all or nothing?
10:59 davi I propose list no one
10:59 chris why dont you?
10:59 larsw I propose keeping the list in the wiki, and allowing anyone to list themselves if they provide Koha services of any kind; if there's a dispute, the next monthly meeting on irc can vote on it
11:00 chris id support that, lets just pull it from the koha-community site and put it on the wiki
11:00 slef chris: I think supporters of koha-community should be supported by the site in turn.
11:00 davi it is unfair under current implementation
11:00 davi some get lost of hits other none
11:00 slef I think keeping the list in the wiki advantages companies with marketing staff or possibly wikirobots.
11:00 chris im serious about just removing it
11:00 davi Also it is unfair under "contribution and community involvement" principle
11:01 chris because i think this is a total waste of time
11:01 davi chris++
11:01 davi and unfair, lot of unfair
11:01 davi Type3 has removed it
11:01 slef I think if no list is offered by the main site, there will be lots of worse lists created by others.
11:02 davi each provider can have one
11:02 chris lets paint it orange!!
11:02 davi chris++
11:02 thd I agree with slef's concern about how the wiki might too easily become on topic spam
11:02 slef and people picking at near-random from search results (which is OK for us, but not great for the community).
11:02 davi Let allow Google work
11:03 slef chris: if you don't want to do the work, please stand aside.
11:03 chris like i was ever in the way
11:03 chris good grief
11:03 slef So no-one's willing to support a list with requirements.  I guess that only leaves the wiki as viable.
11:04 reed the problem w/reqs was, as discussed a while back, that application becomes a pain
11:04 davi I prefer a wiki with requirements that current state
11:04 davi I fear a wiki would be even worse
11:04 slef chris: so you were heckling or joking that "im serious about just removing it"?
11:05 thd davi: Google is not the solution to life.  I suspect that you would have difficulty finding all the companies providing Koha support using Google alone without an explicit list for Google to index.
11:05 chris im serious that i think we should just remove it
11:05 reed i think having a list of support companies has value to people wanting to use koha -- but I sell services so it's in my interest
11:05 chris its not like im going to go delete it now or something
11:05 chris and you know that
11:05 slef reed: as I mentioned a while back, it depends on the requirements.  LibLime's requirements weren't great, shall we say.
11:05 davi chris, That is because a good listing should be set up:
11:05 davi a map?
11:05 davi a geographic listing?
11:05 davi a by language listing?
11:05 thd davi: Google disadvantages new websites in their weightings generally.
11:05 reed slef, I'm not up on what those were
11:06 slef reed: people ask on list for a list occasionally
11:06 davi Current listing is very unfair
11:06 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'translation' of git:// into to-push <[…]6bcb07699c713f226> / System Preference updates <[…]aa6a81a782780fc10> / Raft of language updates <[…]6a495a010d9d33c45
11:06 reed davi, agree a randomiser would be better than a static list
11:06 slef reed: want me to find them?
11:07 davi We have the past and current experience. I am sure we can work out a better and fair listing
11:07 davi reed ++
11:07 reed slef, only mildly curious -- more interested in what the best thing to do is
11:07 davi randomised listing ++
11:08 gmcharlt ok, let's step back a minute
11:08 davi Each month such random could be changed
11:08 davi randomised logos table at top
11:08 thd When the issue became controversial there was some support for multiple pages with different ordering of those listed allowing the user to choose a preference for the presentation of material.
11:08 davi Current listing without logos is not good
11:08 gmcharlt as far as the format of the list is concerned, I know that wizzyrea has expressed willingness in the past to work on doing things like adding maps, providing sorting optoins, etc.
11:09 gmcharlt so I'd like to suggest that we not discuss formatting issues for now
11:09 gmcharlt and go back to the requirements questions
11:09 davi thd, different orders is not good idea. Better randomised, maybe changed each month
11:09 gmcharlt as I understand it, slef is proposing adding two requirements
11:09 gmcharlt (a) Can we add a solidarity clause?
11:09 gmcharlt (b) requirement to link back to
11:10 davi (a) ++
11:10 thd davi: randomised could be one of the orders :)
11:10 davi (b) ++
11:10 laurence left #koha
11:10 davi thd, randomised should be the default order
11:10 davi if any other is added
11:10 reed b+++, a0 seems too thorny to manage
11:10 slef (it's nice to see that I actually agree with davi on something after that AGPL3 discussion ;-) )
11:11 davi we both are good guys, so at the end we agree :)
11:11 chris b i could live with
11:11 gmcharlt as far as the solidarity clause is concerned - IMO, there are a number of problems defining it - obviously one vendor suing another is bad, but one *can't* always determine whether such action has anything to do with community interests; there is always the possiblility of a plain old commercial dispute
11:11 chris a is going to get messy fast
11:12 Colin although it sounds a bit needy
11:12 thd On the mailing list, the concern was expressed about who will judge (a)
11:12 hdl_laptop solidarity clause could be better managed with a Koha kaitiaki group.
11:12 slef b might actually equate to a in practice - if they have their own koha astroturf site, they probably won't link back to
11:12 davi the community, we, here
11:12 hdl_laptop But could really be messy to implement just now.
11:13 thd Ensuring objectivity about (a) could be difficult
11:13 davi it would be a get-out what we are sure if obvious bad
11:13 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: right - we don't have an active individual kaitiaki at present, and while a kaitiaki committee may be a good alternative, it would take time for it to be formally constited and build credibility
11:14 slef so I'd settle for b alone
11:14 slef let's drop a for now
11:14 vokalrcp Start w/ b,  revisit a if problems actually arise.
11:14 tajoli Hi to all, also I for b) only, now
11:14 reed refinement of b -- link should be not tiny and appear on same page that we're linking to
11:15 hdl_laptop and then and then...
11:15 davi +1
11:15 reed maybe have a community badge image
11:15 cait and there the problems start...
11:15 slef Colin: linkback is common practice even for some paid-for listings.
11:15 thd reed: For those interested, language about prominent could be borrowed from GPL 3 / AGPL 3
11:15 Colin b is already going to start generating loads of legalese
11:15 * gmcharlt calls for a vote
11:15 gmcharlt I'm going to split it into too
11:15 gmcharlt first
11:16 cait Im for different sorting options and 'offering koha services' without additional requirements
11:16 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Update FSF address in debian/copyright. <[…]8bc60014a1a9b559c> / Upgrade Koha instance database schema when package is upgraded. <[…]0bea23ab9f4e49fb2> / Fix bug 4818: Add note to koha README.Debian to maybe disable default vhost. <http://git.koha-community.or
11:16 slef reed: search engines don't care about tiny.  Same page makes it easier to check.
11:16 thd I am not certain what (b) entails
11:16 davi (b) requirement to link back to
11:16 slef Let's let gmcharlt state some precise wording for it.
11:16 Colin I think b means we revisit the argument monthly
11:17 chris Colin++
11:17 thd Colin++
11:17 slef Colin--
11:17 davi Colin--
11:17 thd slef: perhaps you could explain what you intend (b) to mean
11:17 davi It is just a link back, which is fair
11:18 gmcharlt for new requests to be listed, the vendor listing must link provide a link to; link must be eye-reable and speakable by screen reader software, but with no requirements about the form of the link otherwise
11:18 thd Do you mean that any site must redirect to
11:18 gmcharlt thd: no, I do not
11:18 slef thd: gmcharlt's wording accurately captures it.
11:18 gmcharlt merely that the vendor's page listing their Koha services m
11:19 gmcharlt scratch that
11:19 Colin and how is this verified and by whom?
11:19 davi gmcharlt++
11:19 gmcharlt that the vendor's page listing their Koha services must have the link back
11:19 chris and how often is it verified
11:19 slef gmcharlt: +1
11:19 gmcharlt Colin: verification by the current webmaster, wizzyrea
11:19 reed chris, enforcement department is separate
11:19 davi chris, verified on demand if needed
11:19 davi so soft
11:20 gmcharlt if challenged, to become a matter of public debate
11:20 slef It's verified by finding the link, by anyone handling the listing, reverified on demand and passed to the same process as a listing where "X no longer offers koha services".
11:20 vokalrcp gmcharlt: +1
11:20 kmkale +1
11:20 gmcharlt as far as my own vote is concerned: 0
11:20 davi +1
11:20 hdl_laptop I think that if a vote occurs, it should also be presented to the koha-list.
11:21 jdavidb joined #koha
11:21 Colin definitely vote 0
11:21 chris 0
11:21 larsw -0
11:21 hdl_laptop hi jdavidb
11:21 hdl_laptop 0
11:21 thd 0
11:21 tajoli +1
11:22 davi What about the listing redesign?
11:22 thd hdl_laptop: do you mean that if we vote, subscribers to the list serve should be invited to vote on the issue specifically?
11:22 slef davi: we're already clear to do that. Just add time.
11:22 slef as I understand it
11:22 davi ack
11:24 gmcharlt thd: I agree - in this case, I would prefer that the final vote take place on the mailing list, particularly as, given the time of this meeting, we're discussing this in the absence of wizzyrea
11:24 slef gmcharlt: was there a second part, or do you want to move on to address info@koha now?
11:24 gmcharlt here's the second part
11:24 gmcharlt and this may well have to end up on the mailing list
11:24 gmcharlt what do we do about current listings?
11:25 gmcharlt grandparent them in?  clear the vendor listing and ask everybody to resubmit requests?
11:25 slef leave them for volunteers to approach and challenge as/when reasonable?
11:25 Nate joined #koha
11:25 reed (for what it's worth I may have changed my mind about this link back req)
11:25 davi I would keep current list up to it be fixed
11:26 thd I suggest we make no change to the policy agreed at the previous meeting until the wide community votes on the issue
11:26 gmcharlt ok, then for now - action item is to put this to the mailing list
11:26 gmcharlt moving on
11:26 gmcharlt I added the info@ item
11:26 gmcharlt my main question: assuming that we want to continue to have go somewhere
11:27 gmcharlt where should it go?
11:27 reed i think it's weird to have
11:27 davi koha-devel
11:27 davi because that is the koha community
11:27 slef I've two concerns: debian-style surprising of naive emailers by having their email address appear in a public archive; and auto-responding to spam that gets past the filters.
11:28 reed agree
11:28 davi agrs,  spam :(
11:28 davi koha-devel-private (new mailing list)
11:28 slef has anyone written a semi-auto-responder yet? :)
11:28 gmcharlt of the options listed, my preference would be to have it go to a new mailing list that is not publicly archived, but which anybody can subscribe to and feel free to respond to
11:29 davi gmcharlt, ++
11:29 reed that dilutes the normal list
11:29 thd info@* is a spam magnate
11:29 gmcharlt davi: koha-devel isn't quite right for this purpose - geneally spekaing, somebody who uses the info@ address is a librarian thinking about Koha and wanting basic information
11:29 larsw I suggest we have a committee to receive the e-mails, and have a a committee election every three months, using the condorcet system; the committee will be required to provide bi-weekly summaries of all mail recevied by info@, removing any names and other information that is sensitive, using their best judgement; to make sure the committee behaves, we should also have a randomly selected auditor verify that randomly selected committee reports
11:29 larsw are accurate; all companies listed on the support provider list are eligible to provide one candidate for the committee
11:30 davi gmcharlt,   koha-devel-private (new non-public mailing list)
11:30 thd reed++
11:30 larsw (sorry); more seriously, I suggest forwarding info@ to webmaster@ until such a time as it becomes an undue burden on the webmaster
11:30 davi larsw, too much bureaucracy , the above proposal
11:31 slef gmcharlt: yes, I think a new list is the best of the options listed, with a basic documented-on-wiki manner of replying.
11:31 davi new mailing list++
11:31 davi private
11:31 gmcharlt OK
11:31 slef once it emerges, that is
11:31 gmcharlt then I suggest it be called
11:31 gmcharlt (sorry davi, this isn't really for development purposes)
11:32 davi I propose the name of that list be "koha-devel-private" in pro of Koha developers, the community.
11:32 thd davi: larsw was intending to be humorous if I understood correctly
11:32 slef just so we don't necessarily get a newbie piling into koha-info and sending loads of adverts and then going "but no-one told me"
11:32 slef larsw: too much time around debian?
11:32 chris the community isnt just the developers davi
11:32 chris we arent even the most important part
11:32 davi ok
11:32 davi koha-info-private@ ++
11:33 gmcharlt ok,
11:33 cait koha-info-private++
11:33 jdavidb left #koha
11:33 slef I don't care about name.  Whoever creates it can pick.
11:33 davi name are good. I like mine
11:33 jwagner joined #koha
11:33 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: paul_p: on to you: can you go ahead and set up such a mailing list and have forward to it?
11:34 hdl_laptop ok
11:34 thd gmcharlt: what is the function of such a list?
11:34 gmcharlt thd: the function is to provide a point of contact for a new user to ask basic questions
11:34 reed yeah, who's answering these mails? and why not use the existing schemes?
11:35 kmkale i thought hats what koha@ was for..
11:35 slef reed: existing scheme?
11:35 gmcharlt proper response of people subscribed to that list would be to respond, but more importantly to direct the newbie to the appopriate forums
11:35 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: who should be subscribed to that list ?
11:35 reed slef, the koha mailing list
11:35 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: anybody who cares to respond to such emails
11:35 thd What is the equivalent Debian list named?
11:35 slef reed: redirecting private email to a public-archive list without warning seems a bit rude.
11:35 * mason says 'hi', just got home...
11:35 reed slef, agree, should kill info@
11:36 gmcharlt the main reason I brought this up in the first place was because an existed, but only had limited distribution
11:36 slef gmcharlt: alternative proposal from reed
11:36 davi good being it set private
11:36 thd gmcharlt: You suggested including private in the list name.  What is intended by private?
11:37 davi name format to show it is not public archive
11:37 davi you know
11:37 slef reed: is your proposal best as: reject it with an SMTP error saying "please see http://KOHALISTWEBPAGE" ?
11:37 reed i propose we not have an info@ address because it creates an possible silo situation
11:37 kmkale kill info@ ++
11:37 davi reed, describe "silo situation"
11:37 reed slef, that's be a cool end of life scheme
11:38 slef davi: data in, nothing out
11:38 davi anyone can reply, as in current way
11:38 reed by "silo" -- a separate mailing list, would create a ghetto of newbie info
11:38 davi that is what info@ if about
11:38 reed seems better to keep things simple
11:38 davi is*
11:39 reed agree, just not that that's a good thing
11:39 davi simple design does not cope with complex reality
11:39 reed also - I don't feel as strongly about this as it may appear
11:40 chris if there is no info@ address, they cant mail it
11:40 reed just seems clunky
11:40 chris thats fairly simple
11:40 thd I agree with reed's point about the hazard of creating a ghetto if a mailing list for newbies is intended.
11:40 gmcharlt thd: it's never been a newbie zone as such; just a single email address that somebody who is completely unfamiliar to Koha can email for general information about the project
11:41 davi to be redirected-guided as per need
11:41 gmcharlt as I suggested, proper response is to answer the question, but also redirect the questioner to other forums for their question
11:41 davi It is the usual "information" point
11:41 reed sounds labour intensive
11:41 gmcharlt I fully expect that this would be a low-volume list
11:41 reed can't we use computers for that?
11:41 gmcharlt but I'm just as happy not having an info@ address
11:41 thd gmcharlt: your suggestion on the wiki meeting agenda was for an autoresponder if I undertstood.
11:42 gmcharlt and just simply replacing references to in the code and other places with inks to the website
11:42 gmcharlt so, howabout this for a vote: replace references to with a link to whereever they appear?
11:42 tajoli IMHO is better to replace with link to comunity site
11:42 reed +1
11:43 magnus +1
11:43 tajoli +1
11:43 kmkale +1
11:43 davi +1
11:43 chris +1
11:43 hdl_laptop +1
11:43 larsw +1
11:43 vokalrcp +1
11:44 thd +1
11:44 cait +1
11:44 davi and what if the want to contact via email?
11:44 davi what list should they choose?
11:44 davi no info@ ?
11:44 cait koha
11:44 gmcharlt the main Koha mailing list
11:44 davi +1
11:44 slef +1
11:44 Colin +1
11:45 slef and put an SMTP error with that link on ideally
11:45 reed slef+
11:45 gmcharlt if BibLibre is willing to set that up, I'm happy with that
11:46 hdl_laptop ok
11:46 gmcharlt ok, so moving on to setting the time of the next meeting - Wednesday, 4 July at 19:00 UTC+0 ?
11:46 davi +1
11:46 davi to me.
11:47 vokalrcp +1
11:47 kmkale cant we make it like 15:00 UTC?
11:47 kmkale 19:00 is half past midnight here
11:47 kmkale :(
11:47 thd gmcharlt: As you know, that is a national holiday in the US.
11:47 Colin Don't you folks want to party or something on the 4th
11:47 * gmcharlt blinks
11:47 vokalrcp You mean the 14th?
11:48 * gmcharlt turns in his US citizen's card ;)
11:48 larsw wed 4 july? isn't 4 july a sunday?
11:48 chris 15 UTC is 3am here kmkale
11:48 kmkale ;)
11:48 * gmcharlt also can't read a calendar
11:48 larsw or did I do spontaneous time travel again?
11:48 gmcharlt let's try this again
11:48 hdl_laptop and 17PM here...
11:48 gmcharlt Wednesday, 7 July at 19:00 UTC+0 ?
11:49 vokalrcp +1
11:49 tajoli +1
11:49 davi +1
11:49 thd +1
11:49 chris ok for me
11:49 hdl_laptop +1
11:49 magnus +1
11:49 larsw +1
11:49 Colin +1
11:49 gmcharlt kmkale: that's why we've mostly been alternating between 10:00 UTC+0 and 19:00 UTC+0
11:49 kmkale cool
11:50 gmcharlt ok, thanks everybody
11:50 vokalrcp ciao
11:50 reed g/nite
11:50 hdl_laptop thanks slef and gmcharlt
11:51 slef thanks all
11:51 vokalrcp left #koha
11:51 larsw thanks and bye
11:53 cait gmcharlt: still around?
11:53 magnus thanks folks! before everybody dissapears: is anyone here going to ELAG in Helsinki next week and interested in some kind of koha meetup?
11:54 reed left #koha
11:55 chris id love to say yes :)
11:55 hdl_laptop id love too
11:55 cait me too, but cant
11:55 * jwagner is sorry to have missed the meeting :-(
11:56 thd magnus: I would appreciate any notes which you may take at ELAG about various national plans for RDA implementation.
11:56 magnus thd: i'll keep my ear to the ground
11:56 larsw left #koha
11:57 slef I think my next big event is in Plymouth 25 June.
11:59 gmcharlt hi cait
12:00 cait hi gmcharlt
12:00 cait sorry for bugging you
12:00 cait I have two patches ready but not sure what to do with them
12:01 cait the first one is adding $w subfields to all marc21 frameworks, including all existing translations
12:01 cait except german, because I just sent a patch for that, would do a follow up
12:01 cait and the second add an index record-control-number on those $w fields
12:01 gmcharlt cait: just go ahead and send them - if I don't accept them for 3.2, they will be pushed to a topic branch for inclusion in 3.4
12:02 cait ok, thx, will send them today
12:02 cait would make my life easer if they got in, but I can understand if they have to wait till 3.4 :)
12:04 cait and im not good in managing/merging branches yet, so happy to have them send
12:08 * gmcharlt is heading out now, off to a library guarded by a dinosaur
12:09 nengard gmcharlt - i'm on a roll :) closed a lot of bugs so far this AM - glad to see so many were fixed even though they weren't marked at patched :)
12:09 gmcharlt nengard++
12:09 nengard of course it means lots of emails :)
12:09 owen joined #koha
12:09 cait gmcharlt. be careful :)
12:11 bgkriegel left #koha
12:11 Amit left #koha
12:11 owen Whoa, hello Bugzilla emails.
12:11 cait batch edit
12:12 cait you can delete most of them ;)
12:12 owen Sorry to miss the meeting folks, that meeting time is pretty much the worst possible for me.
12:14 magnus is now known as magnus_away
12:14 slef owen: sorry to miss you
12:14 nengard owen - sorry about that - but some of the more recent emails are for you :)
12:15 owen What is the purpose of adding koha-bugs as the QAContact?
12:15 nengard hey - is it just me or were we used to place holds on multiple items via the search in the staff client before? that option isn't showing for me anymore
12:15 chris theres a syspref for it nengard
12:15 nengard thanks chris - off to find it
12:16 chris owen: means the mailing list gets an email when the bug is changed
12:16 chris which is pretty handy
12:16 owen Hm... so if I'm subscribed to the list I should turn off all Bugzilla emails
12:17 tajoli left #koha
12:17 chris if you dont want a double up, yep
12:18 chris i just read the archives
12:18 chris and get mail for bugs im assigned to
12:18 nengard I don't mind the doubles cause it's gmail and it puts them in a thread
12:20 kmkale chris: anything further about that fastcgi irc chat?
12:22 francharb1 joined #koha
12:22 chris im delaying it to post 3.2
12:22 chris its all to easy to get excited about new stuff
12:23 chris and ignore the boring fix the bugs stuff
12:23 chris so we can release
12:26 cait chris++
12:26 kmkale yeah chris++ but would have loved to have a sneak peak ;)
12:28 collum joined #koha
12:28 francharb left #koha
12:34 chris :)
12:35 * owen recalls the release-schedule problem happening for the release of 3.0 as well
12:37 jwagner Morning, folks.
12:37 cait morning jwagner
12:37 cait I think we should talk about release schedules, but concentrate on finishing 3.2 now
12:38 jwagner If the syspref AllowHoldPolicyOverride, it should allow staff to override & place a hold, regardless of whether the staff is a superlibrarian, correct?  So long as staff person has permissions to do circ?
12:39 KingNAMS joined #koha
12:41 jwagner Never mind -- problem is more with having independent branches on than with lack of superlibrarian privileges.  Sigh.
12:45 chris right, i better get some sleep
12:45 chris cyas later
12:45 cait good night chris
12:47 tomascohen joined #koha
12:48 KingNAMS left #koha
13:00 owen I haven't read through the meeting log yet... Did we schedule a bug-squashing session?
13:02 bgkriegel joined #koha
13:03 nengard owen - i don't remember seeing one scheduled - but gmcharlt asked us all to go through our bugs and close the ones we can
13:03 nengard which is why you're getting so many emails from me
13:03 nengard i'm through 140ish and have about 60 more to go!
13:04 owen Oh by the way nengard, I didn't forget your question about the OPAC logo image, but I did decide that the original is lost
13:04 KingNAMS joined #koha
13:04 owen I'm trying to figure out the best way to recreate it and what format to share it in
13:04 nengard owen - i on the other hand ... did forget :) hehe
13:04 nengard we'll want something with layers that's easy to edit the bg on
13:05 nengard do we know what the Koha font is?
13:05 nengard if so I can probably recreate it
13:05 nengard or maybe i can recreate it using the big original logo I have
13:05 nengard[…]ack-and-white.jpg
13:06 KingNAMS Hi all...I'm new to Koha (and linux as well to be honest) but I'm learning! I just wanted to introduce myself to the community!
13:06 cait hi KingNAMS and welcome
13:06 owen nengard: The svg version of the staff client logo would be a better place to start if you want to roll your own
13:06 KingNAMS thanks!
13:06 nengard welcome KingNAMS
13:07 nengard where is the svg?
13:07 nengard sorry that was for owen - where is the svg
13:07 owen misc/interface_customization​/koha3-staff-client-logo.svg
13:08 nengard thanks
13:08 owen For some reason that logo doesn't *precisely* match the OPAC one, but I'm not sure where the differences came from
13:08 owen If Rachel ever told me what the font is I've forgotten, and I can't find the info in my email archive
13:08 owen But I'll bet she knows
13:09 cait KingNAMS: where are you located?
13:09 owen (although it may not help if it's an expensive font)
13:09 KingNAMS cait: Alabama
13:12 cait KingNAMS: ah, I m from Germany. :) perhaps you may want to introduce yourself on the mailing lists too.
13:13 KingNAMS cait: ok, thanks...I just signed up the other day but have just been reading so far
13:14 KingNAMS well, gotta go! talk to you all later
13:14 cait bye :)
13:14 KingNAMS left #koha
13:14 jdavidb joined #koha
13:14 cait good morning jdavidb :)
13:14 jdavidb hi, cait! :)
13:15 cait oh, my first merge conflict
13:18 kmkale hi jdavidb
13:19 jdavidb howdy, kmkale! :)
13:20 cait how do I tell git, use master and avoid my changes?
13:27 hdl_laptop git reset --hard HEAD
13:27 hdl_laptop git reset --hard ORIG_HEAD
13:27 slef other than that, tell your merge tool to use master where there is a conflict
13:29 cait butwith git reset I would loose all changes to the other files?
13:29 slef yep
13:29 cait I just want him to ignore one change that got in there by accident
13:29 cait and causes my problen now, because I wrote a patch for that
13:29 slef one change or one file?
13:29 cait one file
13:29 slef if one file, edit the file and resolve manually
13:30 slef search for <<<< to find the start of the conflict
13:30 cait never done that :(
13:30 slef it's no harder than editing the file ordinarily
13:30 slef there are slicker ways to do it, with git mergetool and similar, but you don't need to
13:31 cait ok, lets have a look at the file
13:31 slef another way is to "git merge -s recursive -Xtheirs" but I can't remember if you can do that after reaching a conflict
13:31 slef (merge, recursive strategy, resolve conflicts by preferring their version)
13:32 slef or -Xours if you want to prefer the current branch
13:36 kmkale left #koha
13:37 sekjal joined #koha
13:37 cait I see no markers in the file :(
13:38 cait ok, found them
13:40 cait slef: can you take a look at the code plz? I dont know what to do with it
13:42 slef looking
13:42 cait thx a lot
13:42 slef looks like a null change... only whitespace, perhaps?
13:43 slef To favour HEAD, delete the <<<<<<< HEAD:... line
13:43 slef then delete the ===== to the >>>>> BUG 4499: line and everything between
13:43 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4499 normal, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, RESOLVED FIXED, Javascript erorr messages not translatable
13:43 slef ends up looking like
13:44 cait will try that, thank you!
13:45 cait it worked! slef++
13:46 slef :)
13:46 slef That's a strange conflict, though, only being in whitespace
13:48 cait I think I confused my branches at some point. I wrote the patch for bug 4499.
13:48 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4499 normal, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, RESOLVED FIXED, Javascript erorr messages not translatable
13:50 hdl_laptop slef: yes but sometimes happens.
13:52 nengard done! I have gone through all of my bugs and closed like 30 of them
13:52 nengard updated even more
13:52 nengard now you all have to do the same with your bugs :)
13:53 custard left #koha
13:53 slef "The username or password you entered is not valid."
13:54 slef "There is no user named ''."
13:54 slef OK, did I miss something? :)
13:55 owen slef, on Bugzilla?
13:56 slef yep
13:56 owen Did you register in the new Bugzilla before the bug migration?
13:58 slef No.  Didn't know I had to.
13:58 slef I'm a bit behind with mailing lists.
13:58 owen Yeah, chris sent out an email I think
13:58 owen jwagner had to go through this process too, but it can be corrected
13:58 slef ok, that explains it.  Thanks.  What happens about bugs assigned to my old username?
13:59 owen I think chris can fix it
14:00 slef Anyone else find that links from the table of contents in[…]issue-5-may-2010/ don't work?
14:00 owen Yes
14:00 slef known bug?
14:01 owen Don't know... wizzyrea online?
14:01 slef found[…]ha-community-org/ - wonder if the strange character at the start stopped it appearing in my feedreader :-/
14:04 nengard slef - i found that the first 2 don't work - but the others do
14:04 slef the open day one didn't work for me
14:04 nengard i do the newsletter
14:04 nengard hmmm - will check
14:04 slef looked like maybe missing / but I can look closer if you can fix it
14:06 nengard slef try now
14:06 nengard it was missing anchors in the code
14:06 nengard i was pretty sick last month and rushed the newsletter
14:10 slef np
14:10 slef will check as soon as I find the window again :)
14:12 slef nengard: it's still behaving a bit oddly for me, reloading it on each click.
14:12 slef nengard: links are like <a href="[…]-may-2010#present"> instead of simply <a href="#present">
14:12 nengard yeah that's the only way we could get those links to work
14:12 nengard doing just #present won't work
14:12 nengard cause the TOC appears on a page by itself
14:12 slef not from front page to body
14:13 slef does ...2010/#present"> not work?  (with a /)?
14:13 nengard nope
14:13 nengard wizzyrea and i went through all options
14:13 nengard when we started
14:13 nengard and this is the only solution
14:13 slef wow
14:13 nengard unless i put the full text of the newsletter on the home page as it's published
14:13 nengard which is a bit much
14:13 slef indeed
14:13 nengard so it's just a bit weird ...
14:14 slef wonder what's caused this... I'm sure I've done internal links on my blog before
14:16 schuster joined #koha
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14:17 tomascohen @wunder Cordoba, Argentina
14:17 munin tomascohen: The current temperature in Cordoba, Argentina is 10.0�C (10:00 AM ART on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Windchill: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Falling).
14:17 schuster @wunder 75035
14:17 munin schuster: The current temperature in Hunter's Creek - KE5VBO, Frisco, Texas is 31.8�C (9:19 AM CDT on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Rising).
14:18 owen Hi schuster
14:18 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, SOMERSET
14:18 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 19.5�C (3:20 PM BST on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1020.5 hPa (Steady).
14:19 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, United Kingdom
14:19 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 19.5�C (3:20 PM BST on June 02, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1020.5 hPa (Steady).
14:19 slef oh, that's changed
14:19 slef used not to find us as part of the UK :)
14:19 schuster Hey Owen...
14:22 slef "Status:  NEW, ASSIGNED, REOPENED * Reporter: = Zarro Boogs found."
14:22 slef OK, I have no bugs.
14:22 slef Looking at mailing list archives to see if this has been covered.
14:27 sekjal joined #koha
14:31 wizzyrea slef: you might try looking just for mjr
14:32 nengard slef you have no bugs because you had no account
14:32 nengard if chris couldn't find your account then he reassigned bugs
14:32 nengard to the default assignee
14:32 nengard you need to talk to chris to see if he can get those bugs asssigned to you
14:32 nengard or you can search full text for your email
14:32 nengard cause he kept notes of who was the assignee
14:33 wizzyrea ^^
14:33 wizzyrea what she said
14:33 slef I've emailed the list.  I suspect this will become a FAQ.
14:33 saorge joined #koha
14:33 slef The bugs db knew our email addresses, so I'm a little sore, but we are where we are.
14:34 slef wizzyrea: are you able to edit the strange character out of the start of[…]ha-community-org/ please?  I can't edit that one.
14:36 nengard slef the db knew our email addresses - but chris couldn't copy over our accout info - login & password, so we had to create an account - you can't assign a bug to someone who doesn't have an account
14:37 nengard wizzyrea and i worked on the links for the newsletter and they are all better now
14:37 wizzyrea he did give us over a week to do it :/
14:37 * chris_n offers regrets for missing the meeting this morning
14:37 wizzyrea (create the new bugzilla accounts)
14:37 chris_n a trip to the Drs office trumped it unfortunately
14:37 owen I wonder why we couldn't have automatically created accounts with random passwords and had people use the password-recovery
14:37 slef wizzyrea: yeah, I'm about at the first week of April with list emails, though
14:38 slef owen: or just feed email addresses into the account creator so people get three days to complete the creation form.
14:38 slef owen: but what's done is done.
14:40 nengard chris_n we understand- well I do :) hehe
14:40 slef sorry, first week of May I mean :-/
14:41 * chris_n is trying to kick a persistent case of strep throat :-P apparently acquired while on vacation
14:41 gmcharlt hi chris_n
14:42 gmcharlt sorry to hear about the strep
14:42 chris_n tnx
14:42 * chris_n reads the log
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14:52 schuster wizzyrea - did you have a chance to "test" the firefox plugin for circ with 3.2?
14:54 wizzyrea i have not yet
14:54 wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_readin
14:55 schuster ok thanks.
14:56 nengard schuster - i have - and it doesn't work - but that might be FF 3.6 as I say in my bug report
15:00 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
15:01 schuster Oh thanks nengard...  didn't know there was a bug!  Should have looked.
15:01 nengard did you find it - or do you need me to get you a number?
15:04 wizzyrea_readin is now known as wizzyrea
15:30 Kivutar left #koha
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15:33 schuster nengard - I'll find it thanks.
15:38 slef Argh! How do you persuade mediawiki to do a bullet list?  Anyone who wants to, please edit[…]_2_2010#Attendees
15:40 wizzyrea *
15:42 nengard without any spaces before it
15:42 nengard it's in the mediawiki documentation :) you know i'm all about the documentation
15:44 nengard
15:47 * owen has managed to build a web page which crashes Firefox when he tries to print it
15:47 chris_n owen++
15:47 * chris_n managed to open enough tabs in Firefox to crash it the other day
15:47 owen yes, it's all part of my plan to take over the world.
15:48 chris_n @quote add <owen> yes, it's all part of my plan to take over the world.
15:48 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded.  Quote #76 added.
15:49 jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting
15:50 wizzyrea chris_n: it's not difficult to crash firefox with tabs. I have a coworker who managed to do it almost every day. So she switched to chrome, and now she can open zillions of tabs and never crash.
15:52 slef hdl_laptop: are you in control of the -> redirect?  It seems to be redirecting the whole archive to mailman
15:52 slef mailman's front page
15:52 slef damn apostrophe next to enter ;-)
15:53 hdl_laptop slef: yes. What is the problem ?
15:54 owen hdl_laptop: It means that if someone finds a link to the mailing list archive in goodle they can't click through to read the original thread. They get redirected to the front page
15:54 slef hdl_laptop: can't we redirect archive pages to the exact page?
15:54 hdl_laptop we are in control of the site, but unfortunately not of the domain.
15:55 slef RewriteEngine on
15:55 slef RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}
15:55 slef RewriteRule (.*)$1 [R=permanent,QSA,L]
15:55 hdl_laptop So we might ask PTFS to do so...
15:55 slef oh, they've done something silly with ?
15:56 jdavidb sending mail to would probably work.  He'd be the one to take care of it.
15:56 slef ok, will do - who wants cc?
15:57 paul_p left #koha
15:58 hdl_laptop slef: I do pleas
15:58 hdl_laptop e
15:59 slef hdl@bib...?
15:59 slef com or fr?
16:00 nengard is now known as nengard_lunch
16:01 slef is also sending 302 Found rather than 301 Moved Permanently which I understand to be keeping options open
16:01 slef curl -I
16:01 slef if you want to see for yourself
16:02 slef using hdl_laptop's koha-fr instead because that's what's on mailman
16:12 cait owen: around?
16:12 owen Yes
16:12 cait hi, I wanted to ask you to take a look at bug 4504 - but I see now that its assigned to fredericd
16:12 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4504 normal, P5, ---, frederic, NEW, Confirmation messages in opac account not translated
16:13 cait I think because I marked it I18N?
16:14 cait ah, but its still NEW
16:14 cait I had no idea how to fix it
16:14 wizzyrea slef: I think I found your bugs.
16:15 jcamins_ cait++ # For her work on bug 4506
16:15 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4506 enhancement, P5, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Add support of record linking by record control number in $w
16:16 cait jcamins: thx! just preparation for the xslt part, will start with that next week when back at work
16:16 slef wizzyrea: I think I still need chris to reassign reporter, or will adding myself to cc in bulk achieve the same?
16:17 slef wizzyrea: thanks
16:17 wizzyrea yea, you will want to ask him about reassigning bugs to you
16:17 wizzyrea idk about the 2nd
16:24 owen cait: Are the examples which don't work all inside an "onclick" attribute?
16:26 owen (Not that I can see why the standard construction doesn't work in these cases)
16:29 owen Perhaps the single quotes nested within double quotes...
16:31 wizzyrea
16:31 wizzyrea oh that's way not right
16:31 wizzyrea sigh
16:31 wizzyrea sorry, wrong window
16:34 cait owen: they are all really similar
16:38 cait owen: sorry, I have to leave now, plz let me know if you have an idea where the problem is
16:38 owen cait, I'm working on a patch, maybe you'll be able to test it for me later
16:39 cait owen: I think I can test tomorrow, if thats ok
16:39 * chris_n expects to see wizzyrea's supersecret password typed in the wrong window any moment ;-)
16:40 owen 1234
16:40 wizzyrea S1rs!5uCk5
16:40 owen Oh dang, ignore that everyone!
16:40 cait qwerty?
16:40 wizzyrea oh crap
16:40 wizzyrea all think I really did type my password, don't you
16:41 cait bye all :)
16:41 wizzyrea ...or, I just typed YOUR password
16:41 wizzyrea and you want to know how I know it.
16:41 wizzyrea bum Bum BUM!
16:41 cait is now known as cait_afk
16:42 nengard_lunch is now known as nengard
16:48 chris_n left #koha
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16:50 * jdavidb goes and changes several of his passwords, just in case wizzyrea has been reading minds.
16:51 chris_n lol
16:52 wizzyrea hehe
16:52 jdavidb next up, the lobotomy.  She can't read my mind, if I lose it!
16:52 wizzyrea lol O RLY?
16:52 rhcl she'll still be able to ssh in
16:52 jdavidb rhcl++  #for making me cackle like a hyena.
17:08 jwagner_meeting is now known as jwagner
17:16 slef If you want to see wizzyrea's password, press Alt+F4 now.
17:16 slef bbl
17:25 jwagner left #koha
17:31 slef 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'5.1.1 <>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table'
17:31 slef
17:32 slef life doesn't want me to catch up :-/
17:33 slef I'll resend those, but that's a task I didn't need.
17:33 slef anyone else having interesting times? :)
17:34 slef actually, it got through to main list (I usually spot and trim crossposts) so I won't bother
17:37 slef one resent
17:37 slef cool
17:37 slef now really bbl
17:38 * chris_n thinks of ticks when he reads "bugs <re>attached"... ich
18:06 owen gmcharlt around?
18:28 Nate left #koha
18:32 Nate joined #koha
18:33 * owen discovers the "Creators" tab in system preferences for the first time
18:36 gmcharlt owen: what's up?
18:36 owen Hey, I've been working on cleaning up the staff-side XSL view and ran into a snag
18:37 owen I want to add the "view in OPAC" link, and I figured out how to check the opacbaseurl preference...
18:37 owen ...but I don't know how to get the biblionumber so I can build the correct link
18:40 owen I got as far as:
18:40 owen <a><xsl:attribute name="href">http://<xsl:value-of select="$OPACBaseURL"/>/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail​.pl?biblionumber=</xsl:attribute><xsl:attribute name="target">_blank</xsl:attribute>Open in new window</a>.
18:47 bgkriegel left #koha
18:48 cait_afk owen: is bibnumer in one of the 999 fields?
18:48 gmcharlt owen:    <span class="view"><a id="MARCviewPop" href="/cgi-bin/koha/{ma​rc:datafield[@tag=999]/marc:subfield[@code
18:48 gmcharlt ='c']}" title="MARC" rel="gb_page_center[600,500]">MARC View</a></span>
18:49 gmcharlt an exaple from the OPAC stylesheet
18:54 owen Good one, thanks
18:54 * owen investigates
18:55 Nate left #koha
18:56 Nate joined #koha
18:58 wizzyrea lol, nobody got that it was "sirsi sucks?"
18:58 wizzyrea sigh
18:58 wizzyrea I must try harder.
19:00 jdavidb That's like stating, "the sky is up," wizzyrea.  It's just the way things are, so no comment was needed.
19:01 owen gmcharlt++ # Just the clue I needed to get it working
19:02 nengard left #koha
19:03 cait joined #koha
19:04 collum jdavidb somehow figured out my password -  dSkyS^
19:04 cait_afk left #koha
19:04 jdavidb welcome back, cait :)
19:08 wajasu joined #koha
19:10 jdavidb left #koha
19:11 cait not really here, just near laptop :)
19:11 cait owen++
19:15 brendan left #koha
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19:18 Nate left #koha
19:18 Nate_ is now known as Nate
19:22 hdl_laptop slef still there ?
19:29 * owen avails himself of some sql from the SQL reports library
19:33 wizzyrea those libraries have saved my sorry tush so many times
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20:06 chrisdroid @wunder wellington,nz
20:06 munin chrisdroid: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0�C (7:40 AM NZST on June 03, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
20:06 chrisdroid Morning
20:06 CGI716 left #koha
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20:16 chrisdroid left #koha
20:22 mib_mike joined #koha
20:23 richard joined #koha
20:23 richard hi
20:24 mib_mike It's quiet in here
20:36 Nate left #koha
20:37 Nate joined #koha
20:37 francharb1 left #koha
20:42 chris back
20:44 magnus_away left #koha
20:47 mib_mike chris are you "Chris Cormack"?
20:47 chris sometimes
20:48 chris depends who is asking :)
20:48 wizzyrea are you happy or mad at him?
20:48 chris hehe
20:48 mib_mike Happy, but puzzled
20:48 mib_mike I just found a patch you submitted
20:49 mib_mike Bug 4123
20:49 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4123 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Error in checking whether a checkout can be renewed
20:49 mib_mike But that was submitted in March, and I still needed to apply it to my code downloaded last month
20:50 reed joined #koha
20:50 mib_mike When do these patches get integrated?
20:50 mason heh, i just bumped into that bug last nite
20:51 mason and pinched the new sub from 3.2, looks much saner
20:51 chris mib_mike: what version are you running mib_mike?
20:52 chris and no i didnt make that patch, kyle did
20:52 mib_mike koha-3.02.00-alpha
20:52 chris yeah alpha or alpha2?
20:53 mib_mike I like the patch.  I pretty much came to the same conclusion myself independently.
20:53 chris because that patch was pushed april 30th, into master and is in alpha2
20:53 chris[…]&st=commit&s=4123
20:54 chris[…]1d52e998d55743b7a
20:54 mib_mike alpha 2.
20:54 mib_mike At least that's what I thought.
20:57 mib_mike I really don't understand git is there a resource you'd recommend?
20:57 chris have you read the tutorial on the wiki?
20:57 wajasu what do you think about a way to add an extra site specific xslt stylesheet in the transformation pipeline for the the detail pages via config preferences, so that sites can add customization to formatting without touching installed XSLT.
20:57 chris[…]Control_Using_Git
20:58 chris i like[…]ocs/everyday.html
20:58 chris too
20:59 wajasu then when I upgrade, the custom stuff can come along kind of like the biblio frameworks do.
20:59 mib_mike I looked at that Version Control page, but Koha Revision Control for the public isn't big on explanations.
21:00 mib_mike I'll check out that other site.  Thanks!
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22:12 libtek Hey all.  Is there a way to change a patron from a Patron account to a Home Bound account, or do we have to delete the account and start over?
22:13 libtek Oh, never mind.  I found where I can change it.  :)
22:13 chris :)
22:13 libtek That was easy.
22:22 cait joined #koha
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22:23 cait hi koha
22:23 chris heya cait
22:23 chris up late
22:24 cait yes
22:24 chris jsp ?
22:24 cait played singstar, now too awake to sleep
22:24 nengard joined #koha
22:24 chris ahhhh
22:25 chris hi nengard
22:25 nengard howdy
22:25 cait jsp will keep me awake when deadline is near
22:25 nengard doing a very general search for bugs I might have the skills to patch since i'm home alone tonight
22:25 cait hi nengard
22:26 chris[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4448
22:26 munin Bug 4448: normal, P5, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED, Ampersands in itemcallnumber break XSLT Results display
22:26 chris you could test and close this one nengard
22:27 chris[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4328
22:27 munin Bug 4328: minor, P4, ---, chris, NEW, Possibility to add a supplier with a blanc name
22:27 chris and you could test and confirm if this still exists
22:28 chris and bug2003
22:29 chris @bug 2003
22:29 munin chris: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2003 major, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Circulation page offers no information on why checkouts are blocked
22:29 chris confirming if that is still a problem would help a lot
22:29 chris have i ruined your evening yet? or do i need to keep going? :-)
22:30 * cait hides
22:31 chris :)
22:31 nengard was getting a popsicle
22:31 nengard going to test
22:31 hdl_laptop left #koha
22:32 chris thanks :)
22:32 * chris goes to watch larsw demo his automated testing
22:39 nengard 2 closed -testing the third
22:46 chris cool
22:46 cait nengard#+
22:46 cait nengard++
22:47 richard is now known as rich-away
22:49 nengard :)
23:02 larsw as a quick re-cap of what chris referred to: I have for Python a setup where code modules have corresponding test modules, and my test runner measures coverage when executing that pair... and even if all tests pass, the test suite as a whole fails unless coverage is 100% (not counting explicitly excluded parts of the code)
23:02 larsw and I'm looking for ways to do that in perl as well, to help koha 3.4 have much better test coverage than it does now
23:02 chris testing++
23:03 larsw being the test runner I wrote for Python
23:04 chris_n hehe "EEEK..."
23:04 chris_n nice error message larsw
23:04 larsw :)
23:09 mason joined #koha
23:11 chris_n heya mason
23:16 nengard on a role - the more tiny patches I write, the more time it frees up for others to write the big ones .... I hope
23:17 chris :-)
23:21 nengard bug 4299 looks like a question - not a bug - anyone agree?
23:21 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4299 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Enable to insert new date for issuing
23:24 chris yeah not a bug, plus its for koha for windows .. ie 2.2.8
23:29 cait ok, time to sleep here
23:29 cait good night all :)
23:30 cait left #koha
23:32 nengard chris - closed
23:32 nengard and wrote another patch :0
23:32 nengard :)
23:32 chris sweet
23:33 larsw nengard++
23:33 nengard i just wish i knew more how to fix some of the bigger bugs that are bugging me :)
23:34 nengard oh and chris i took your advice - a branch for each patch
23:34 nengard figure if i do it enough it will become second nature - which right now it is not
23:35 larsw takes some time to find out the good workflows with powerful tools like git
23:35 * larsw is still learning
23:52 robin nengard: I do that for my own personal projects, it makes life so much easier.
23:53 nengard i'm the kind of person who likes to close all unused apps - so it's kind of like that with branches - i don't like having a bunch floating out there - but i understand why i need them :)
23:54 robin nengard: yeah, it's just something you have to get used to, the benefits are well worth it.
23:54 chris nengard, i delete them when they are pushed into master
23:54 nengard chris - i plan to!
23:54 chris that way, i know what i have still waiting too
23:55 chris git branch
23:55 chris ohh 4 outstanding
23:55 chris easy peasy pudding and pie
23:55 nengard very good point
23:55 larsw if one doesn't want to remove the branches, for whatever reason, then renaming might be an option
23:55 chris (delete locally that is, i leave them in the remote repo)
23:56 robin chris: the work repo has 945 branches, of which 105 are my local ones :)
23:56 chris time for a tidy up :-)
23:56 robin The nice thing about the git branch method is that they don't get in the way.

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