IRC log for #koha, 2010-05-28

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:01 eiro arghh... i see. i stop there and will ask to my local koha experts :) i'll sleep for now. 'night all
00:04 brendan @wunder new york, ny
00:04 munin brendan: The current temperature in The Mile Square City, Hoboken, New Jersey is 16.1�C (8:05 PM EDT on May 27, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1011.7 hPa (Rising). Coastal Flood Advisory in effect until 10 PM EDT this evening...
00:18 brendan @wunder citi field queens, ny
00:18 munin brendan: Error: No such location could be found.
00:46 larsw tells me there is currently no text on the page... that seems wrong
00:54 larsw I moved the README to the wiki:
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05:07 mib_tulof2 .
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05:39 Ropuch Morning #koha
05:47 Amit heya Ropuch
05:47 Ropuch Hi Amit
06:02 mib_tulof2 hi
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09:05 cait good morning all
09:06 Ropuch Hello cait
09:13 brendan morning cait Ropuch
09:18 Ropuch Hi brendan
09:22 cait hi Ropuch and brendan
09:28 nahuel hi
09:29 nahuel does it exist an official bib1.att for authorities provided by the LOC ?
09:32 Amit heya nahuel
09:37 nahuel hi
10:15 brendan heya nahuel
10:15 brendan nahuel++
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11:32 kmkale good evening
11:32 kmkale @weather Mumbai
11:32 munin kmkale: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 33.0�C (4:40 PM IST on May 28, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 25.0�C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
11:32 nahuel braedon|home, ?
11:32 nahuel brendan, ?
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12:16 jdavidb howdy, #koha.
12:16 owen Good morning jdavidb
12:17 jdavidb :)
12:17 jwagner morning all....
12:18 kmkale hey jdavidb
12:20 jdavidb Hi, kmkale!  Haven't seen you in a few days.
12:21 kmkale jdavidb: yup. was traveling. how are you?
12:22 jdavidb I am well.  Busy, but that keeps me out of mischief.
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12:38 kmkale_ :)
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12:50 kmkale brb
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12:57 owen Uh oh, looks like the mailing list link redirect is breaking links from Google
12:59 owen I was curious about the mailing list question about upgrading from 2.x, so I googled it
12:59 owen Got this link in the results:
12:59 owen[…]tober/010291.html
12:59 owen That redirects not to the same link on but to the main list page
13:00 owen That's going to suck for anyone who's Googling answers to their Koha questions
13:03 * owen wonders if is up to date
13:14 owen I wonder if Bug 1153 could be solved by connecting it somehow to the Import Patrons function
13:14 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1153 minor, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, update to allow moderation, and templatize
13:15 gmcharlt perhaps, although having modify the patron record directly isn't the problem - that would be easy
13:16 gmcharlt the trick is allowing staff members to track changes
13:16 gmcharlt a bit more auditing of the patron record and the ability to revert to an older version of a record would be one direction
13:17 gmcharlt e.g., if a patron tries to give themselves a fake address, staff member can undo it
13:17 owen My thought was that if we still didn't want the patron to directly edit their record, the new information could be emailed as a patron file to import rather than just text in the body of the email
13:17 owen But better would be a "patron update" table with revised info for the staff member to approve or reject
13:17 owen Like a reservoir for patron records
13:18 * owen thinks it's a shame the bug has gone so long unfixed
13:19 gmcharlt I think it just needs someobdy to articulate the use cases a bit more
13:19 gmcharlt e.g., are there fields that you'd pretty much always let a patron change?  does the library need alerts upon changes?  automatically catching patrons who appear to have moved out of the library's taxing area? etc.
13:20 gmcharlt but yeah, simplest would be to create a patron update queue and give the library the ability to accept or reject changes
13:23 owen Hunh....I thought Bug 2664 had been fixed...
13:23 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2664 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, ASSIGNED, Additem form should preselect logged-in branch
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13:40 jcamins nahuel: As far as I can tell, there is no official bib1.att file.
13:42 nahuel ok
13:49 jcamins However, as you probably know, there is a non-computer readable list:
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14:28 mib_x1kg4i hi all
14:28 mib_x1kg4i i have a big question
14:28 * owen stands back
14:28 mib_x1kg4i does koha run on Oracle??
14:28 owen Small answer: No.
14:29 mib_x1kg4i no???
14:29 owen Koha uses MySQL. Some work is being done to get it working with Postgres, but it isn't ready yet
14:29 mib_x1kg4i ok thanks a lot
14:30 owen Koha is an Open Source project, so no one has really been interested in Oracle.
14:30 mib_x1kg4i thanks
14:30 mib_x1kg4i bye all
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14:33 * jdavidb shudders a little.
14:33 owen jdavidb: Have you worked with Oracle?
14:33 * owen never has
14:34 jdavidb A very, very little.  It's powerful, to be sure, though mysql is catching up in a lot of ways.  For a long time, database action triggers was the big special sauce for oracle, but that's not the case any more.
14:35 jdavidb If you need the clout that Oracle gives, you can do most of that--plus some other sexy things--with MaxDB.  It was developed by SAP, originally, because Oracle wasn't stout enough for very, very large SAP installs.
14:36 jdavidb (Then they open-sourced it....)
14:36 * owen didn't know Oracle wasn't stout enough for anything
14:36 jdavidb When Texas Instruments went to SAP, some of their chip-manufacturing plants were down for nearly a month.  It was kinda chaotic.
14:37 jdavidb That, among some other high-profile failures in big SAP installs, led to MaxDB.
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14:40 jdavidb You *could* hack most any SQL-ish system to run on Oracle, I'm sure, but it's like moving a working airplane from one airport to another via truck.  Sure you could, but why would you want to?
14:41 owen Now that's a sight my 3-year-old would like to see.
14:42 octothorpesarus Sometimes corporate policy dictates what software must be used.
14:43 jdavidb yep.
14:48 jwagner gmcharlt, online?
14:48 gmcharlt jwagner: yep
14:50 jwagner Not sure if this is yours or not -- looks too old, but... I have an XSLT display problem in older code that's fixed in current head.  In the older code, a title with an ampersand (e.g., Pip & Squeak or Marley & Me) displays in the OPAC results as Pip & Squeak
14:51 jwagner I'm trying to find the commit that fixed that.  The only commit I see on the title line of the XSLT is your 8f9618833e1f5f6a480fd88ef507303316702966, but that's from February 2009.  Does this problem ring a bell with anyone?
14:51 jwagner (Your commit should be in the code already for this site)
14:51 jwagner I'm not finding anything in bugzilla for this problem
14:51 gmcharlt jwagner: f9e007762c09592ea26785502238b4af87892008 may be relevant
14:52 jwagner It says it's for non-XSLT intranet, and my problem is with XSLT OPAC results
14:52 owen I see Bug 4448, not sure if it's relevant
14:53 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4448 normal, P5, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED, Ampersands in itemcallnumber break XSLT Results display
14:53 jwagner Same .pm file?
14:53 gmcharlt owen: different matter
14:53 jwagner But it gives me an idea where to look next, lemme check there....
14:55 jwagner Er, um, turns out it's one of our fixes :-)  David Birmingham's commit in December.....
14:55 jwagner Never Mind.....
14:59 jcamins I am coming to understand why most ILSes don't really support analytics very well. Thinking about them is like looking at an Escher painting.
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15:01 jdavidb s/like looking at an Escher painting/like looking at an Escher painting, while taking a hallucinogen/
15:02 jcamins Yes, that's a much better characterization. :)
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15:19 libtek good morning all
15:21 libtek I am getting the following message when I try to checkout an item that is not from my library:
15:21 libtek This patron can't check out this item per library circulation policy
15:23 libtek Anyone know what I need to do to adjust this?  I don't get this from items at my library.  What do I do to tell the system that items from this library are okay to checkout at my library?  Do I have to set a specific rule for this library under mine, or won't default work?
15:25 jwagner owen, online?
15:25 owen Yes
15:25 jwagner Historical question for you or anyone else.  Both OPAC and staff display is using current location (952b) rather than owning location (952a) for the Location (library) column.  Is there a reason for that?
15:26 owen Because if a patron wants to go find that item they need to know where it actually is
15:26 jwagner It's confusing some of our sites, who see the location as Library B rather than the real owning Library A, because a patron from B has checked it out.
15:27 jwagner But if it's checked out, does it matter?  Presumably when it's checked in, it goes in transit back to A?
15:27 owen If a patron has it checked out, they have to place a hold anyway. So the location isn't useful to them either way
15:27 owen The home location is only relevant if the patron is going to NOT put a hold on it and try to remember to go pick it up at the library after it comes back
15:27 jwagner So shouldn't it stay as the owning library?
15:28 kmkale bye all
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15:30 jwagner Bug 3262 seems to be a similar issue
15:30 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3262 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, OPAC needs syspref to show homebranch instead of current location on detail page
15:36 jwagner I think I'll update that bug with this discussion & see if we can get any movement or consensus on whether the display should be home or current branch.
15:36 owen jwagner: If the bug is asking for a system preference, I think that's good evidence there is no consensus ;)
15:36 gmcharlt jwagner: the answer to your 'or' question is 'yes' ;)
15:37 owen jwagner: What if the item is not checked out? Should it still display the home branch even though it is presumably on the shelf at the holding branch?
15:38 jwagner that's the question -- which is important to display?
15:39 owen jwagner: Actually that's the answer--from my point of view!
15:43 jwagner If there were a syspref, would that make everyone happy?  Sites could choose which to display.
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15:45 owen Since there are two strongly-held opinions on which is correct, I'd say the system pref would be a good one
15:45 gmcharlt a system preference is the way to go
15:45 gmcharlt especially since the situation could get yet more complicated whenever full support for floating collections is added
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15:53 jcamins Just to confirm that I understand these things correctly, the relationship between bib records and item records is one to many, correct?
15:55 owen is now known as owen-away
15:58 gmcharlt jcamins: right
15:58 tomascohen hi, is the wordpress theme of koha-community available for download?
15:59 gmcharlt tomascohen: the base theme is Green Park 2, which can be found at
15:59 gmcharlt I don't know how much wizzyrea_away has or hasn't customized it; if she has, ask her about getting it
15:59 jcamins Alas. Well, at least I'm not missing something obvious.
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16:04 octothorpesarus s
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16:24 * jdavidb wraps Nate up in Velcro, and looks for something (or someone) to stick him to.
16:25 brendan today is bounce day
16:26 jdavidb guess so.  How's things out west, brendan?
16:26 brendan going well
16:30 jdavidb :)  great.  Happy Friday!
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16:35 brendan :)
16:35 jcamins I seem to recall there was some discussion of rethinking the relationship between items, biblioitems, and biblios... does anyone remember what the conclusion was, or where/when the discussion was?
16:45 brendan the discussion IRC was to merge the two tables
16:46 brendan That could be in the goals for RM 3.4 on the wiki (not 100% sure)
16:49 brendan nope didn't remember correctly - sorry
16:50 gmcharlt brendan: yep, that would be part of the general cataloging rework I'm consider for 3.4
16:50 brendan[…]oitems_tables_RFC
16:50 brendan there we go (holes in brain start to fill back in)
16:51 jcamins Ah-ha. Thank you. I knew I saw something about it. And the items are going to be taken out of the MARC blobs. That's in the RFCs for 3.4.
16:52 * jwagner thinks holes in brain sound painful....
16:53 * jcamins thinks they may have come from too much Escher w/psychotropic drugs or thinking about analytics...
16:54 * jwagner goes off to enjoy the free lunch :-)
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17:17 jcamins What is the table serialitems for?
17:17 gmcharlt predicted and receved serial issues
17:19 jcamins Ah. So you can't barcode serials?
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17:41 brendan @wunder 93117
17:41 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 18.6�C (10:37 AM PDT on May 28, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 30.02 in 1016.5 hPa (Steady). Wind Advisory in effect from 4 PM this afternoon to 3 am PDT Saturday...
17:42 jdavidb @wunder 20817
17:42 gmcharlt jcamins: yes, you can barcode serials, but you do that by creating a full item record (ie, a row in the items table)
17:42 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is 23.2�C (1:43 PM EDT on May 28, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Steady).
17:42 gmcharlt one of the options for a subscription record is whether you want to create full item records during serials receiving
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18:01 jcamins gmcharlt: I see. Thank you.
18:02 owen-away is now known as owen
18:09 jwagner @quote random
18:09 munin jwagner: Quote #32: "<wizzyrea> oh, things are not right in the world .... oh good, that makes me feel better. it's just the govt" (added by jdavidb at 09:56 AM, September 09, 2009)
18:09 jdavidb @quote random
18:09 munin jdavidb: Quote #50: "<pianohackr|work> It is a landmine, I tell you" (added by a user that is no longer registered at 11:44 AM, December 23, 2009)
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18:12 jcamins Does anyone know anything about bug 2797?
18:12 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2797 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Add Summary records to represent summary holdings
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18:32 octothorpesarus I'm tinkering with fastcgi with the 3.0 branch.  Is anyone working on/with fastcgi in the 3.1+ branche(s)?
18:33 wizzyrea_away chris is, I velieve
18:33 wizzyrea_away believe, even
18:33 wizzyrea_away perhaps cfouts (though Id on't think he's here)
18:34 wizzyrea_away it's chris' weekend, technically
18:35 octothorpesarus Do you happen to know if there are any "official" plans for fastcgi in the upcoming branches?
18:35 wizzyrea_away dunno, chris is the RM for 3.4
18:35 octothorpesarus Alright.  I'll bug him next week.
18:35 wizzyrea_away ya good plan :)
18:37 octothorpesarus I've got running under fastcgi (probably some memory issues need to be addressed) but I'd prefer not to duplicate effort.
18:55 jdavidb Even when she's away, wizzyrea does awesome things.
18:55 jdavidb wizzyrea++
19:01 * wizzyrea_away dons her superman cape
19:01 wizzyrea_away is now known as wizzyrea
19:02 * jdavidb thinks the Wonder Woman outfit might fit a little better.
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19:33 wizzyrea oh hey
19:33 wizzyrea I really appreciate that we only have one bug DB now
19:33 wizzyrea thanks for that, ptfs folks :D
19:34 jwagner You is welcome :-)
19:35 brendan is the gone too?
19:36 wizzyrea yep
19:38 chris yay!!!
19:42 brendan heya chris
19:44 wizzyrea I believe the wiki content has been scraped in the last few weeks
19:44 wizzyrea so it's *somewhere*
19:45 jwagner I'm on the fringes of that discussion, but so far as I know, the content is still intact.  We just turned off the DNS entries.
19:45 jwagner If something is needed, we could probably retrieve it.
19:45 brendan yeah something somewhere would be good
19:47 gmcharlt jwagner:, perhaps?
19:48 brendan +1 for old_wiki
19:48 owen Some feedback from PTFS about licensing of old wiki content would be nice too
19:48 jwagner When we have time to think about it, maybe :-)  Got a big project trying to get out the door right now....
19:49 brendan 3.2 right ;)
19:49 jwagner owen & gmcharlt, email me with what you're suggesting & asking, so it doesn't get lost.
19:50 jwagner But I'm going home right now.  USians, enjoy the three-day weekend :-)  Everyone else can talk about us behind our backs on Monday....
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19:51 chris i always talk about usians on monday
19:51 chris you're never here then
19:52 wizzyrea ^.^
19:52 chris now i get to do it tuesady too
19:52 chris :)
19:54 owen Sigh... is there any better way to end out a week than by trying to learn XSLT by staring blankly at MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl?
19:54 wizzyrea um
19:55 gmcharlt those who say Perl is a write-only language are off target - it's XSLT that has that distinction ;)
19:55 wizzyrea
19:56 wizzyrea (strange computer algorithmically changed dance music alert)
19:56 gmcharlt wizzyrea: so what happens when you run swing music through that?
19:56 wizzyrea yea, I don't know, but that's an interesting proposition
19:57 wizzyrea
19:57 wizzyrea for all of the swingified songs
19:57 wizzyrea it's super swing?
19:57 wizzyrea so swing they're getting robbie williams involved?
19:57 wizzyrea I don't know
19:57 wizzyrea lol
20:01 owen wizzyrea: For more Gaga derivatives:
20:04 wizzyrea owen: It seems I can't look anywhere without seeing gaga these days
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20:19 pianohackr|work Hello
20:19 chris hiya pianohackr|work
20:19 pianohackr|work Hi chris
20:21 pianohackr|work Idea time: One of the staff was thinking (subtly) different font colors for certain parts of the circ screen for different categories or supercategories. Thoughts? I think this would be easy to do automatically
20:22 gmcharlt pianohackr|work: automatically = CSS?
20:22 chris yep, some general css work on the staff side would be good
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20:22 pianohackr|work CSS and without any needed configuration
20:23 gmcharlt but note that font colors can't be the only way to make semantically important distinctions in the user interface
20:23 gmcharlt otherwise, you're creating accessiblity issues
20:24 pianohackr|work Well, it's more of an emphasis
20:24 pianohackr|work Like, the category is already on the circ page
20:25 pianohackr|work If I did some careful hue selection, it might even be able to at least partially work for the major kinds of colorblindness
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20:41 chris i think the staff side would be great improved by some colour :)
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20:51 chris @wunder wellington,nz
20:51 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0�C (8:00 AM NZST on May 29, 2010). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
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20:52 libtek Anyone know what happened to the bugs site?
20:52 chris
20:52 chris is the bugs site
20:53 libtek did this just change???
20:53 chris a week ago, itd been planned for months, and there were mails to the mailing lists, and posts on the website
20:53 chris but jsut today ptfs turned off dns for the old site
20:53 chris thanks ptfs :)
20:54 chris[…]ha-community-org/
20:54 libtek Ah....thanks for the info.
20:54 chris wiki is also
20:55 chris download, www, lists etc :)
20:55 chris and my current favourite
20:56 chris
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21:02 libtek I'm not finding an issue I just came across.  Wondering if anyone can confirm.  When looking at a patron record in circulation, I click print-->print page.  The screen that comes up looks normal, except that for one of the columns it shows the heading of format, and it is not showing the format.  It is displaying the item type.  Even then, it is only showing one particular type, not the correct type for that item.  Can anyone conf
21:04 chris what version?
21:05 libtek 3.00.06
21:05 chris and what do mean by format? koha has collection code or itemtype
21:06 libtek Couldn't tell you.  It is just showing a heading called "Format".
21:06 wizzyrea can you get a screen cap?
21:06 wizzyrea (jing is popular for that)
21:07 chris i think in that context format=itemtype .. but only showing one definitely sounds like a bug
21:07 wizzyrea or any one of these
21:07 wizzyrea[…]f/~3/KZ-YpLcueFc/
21:09 * chris doesnt have a 3.0.x running but ill check master
21:11 libtek how do I pass a screen capture?  I can capture, but what do I pass it along through?
21:11 wizzyrea
21:11 wizzyrea this is from master
21:12 wizzyrea er, 1s that record is messed up
21:12 wizzyrea fixing it and re-capping
21:13 chris and AB is the itemtype eh?
21:13 wizzyrea ya
21:13 wizzyrea it's the 942c
21:14 libtek I'm sorry.  I've never done that before.  I don't know where to go or what to do?  Am I supposed to setup an account through jing?  screencast?
21:14 chris yep
21:14 chris <td><!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="itemtype" --></td>
21:14 wizzyrea jing is the easiest, I think
21:14 wizzyrea is the label just wrong?
21:15 wizzyrea ok, that's the koha item type
21:15 wizzyrea not any item type that is marc-ish
21:15 wizzyrea so it's nothing to do with the format
21:15 libtek It should be the item type, based on the content I see in the column, but then it isn't showing the correct type for the items in the list.
21:18 wizzyrea[…]een-capture-tool/
21:18 wizzyrea seems like an easy to use one
21:18 wizzyrea but jing is the usual one we use, just because it's so fast and has online storage for your caps.
21:19 wizzyrea is my cap anything like what you are seeing? of course my itype shortcodes are different from yours
21:20 wizzyrea
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21:20 wizzyrea and this is the print page from that
21:20 wizzyrea
21:21 libtek Yep
21:21 wizzyrea AB is the shortcode for audiobook
21:21 wizzyrea right
21:21 wizzyrea I can explain that, one minute... It's probably wrong at anyrate
21:21 libtek My types are like 7 Day Loan, 14 Day Loan, 28 Day Loan, but it is showing everthing as 28 Day Loan, when they are 14 and 7.
21:22 chris its possible its using the biblio level not the itemlevel itemtype
21:22 wizzyrea ^^
21:23 wizzyrea
21:23 wizzyrea so yea, that's wrong
21:24 wizzyrea it should use the item-item type
21:24 chris well it should follow the syspref
21:24 wizzyrea ah, lemme check mine
21:25 wizzyrea it's set for specific item
21:25 wizzyrea
21:25 wizzyrea (that's all jing/screencast, by the way_)
21:25 wizzyrea ( like it because it's silly fast)
21:27 wizzyrea go ahead and submit a bug for it
21:27 wizzyrea if you like
21:29 libtek Thanks.  It's my first one.  I've got chills.  :)
21:29 wizzyrea hehe
21:29 wizzyrea and yes, you really do have to hit the "Commit" button
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21:29 wizzyrea I hope you're not afraid of commitment.
21:29 wizzyrea :D
21:29 wizzyrea dangit!
21:29 wizzyrea I made a funny joke and I'm too slow!
21:29 wizzyrea (I had a problem with the commit button the first time)
21:29 wizzyrea (seriously)
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21:30 libtek sorry...missed that...hit the wrong browser tab!  What was it you just said? (After hehe?
21:30 libtek :/
21:31 wizzyrea and yes, you really do have to hit the "Commit" button
21:31 wizzyrea I hope you're not afraid of commitment.
21:31 wizzyrea (I had a problem with the commit button the first time)
21:31 wizzyrea (seriously)
21:31 wizzyrea :D
21:32 libtek :)
21:35 rhcl_away Does Koha run on ROS? That would be the perfect roaming reference librarian if it did.
21:35 rhcl_away
21:35 rhcl_away I'll bet jdavidb could get it installed.
21:35 rhcl_away[…]d_to_college.html
21:37 libtek wizzyrea: What do I use for version?  I have 3.00.06.  I don't see it in the list.  Do I use 3_0?
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21:45 wizzyrea use the one that you are looking at it on
21:45 wizzyrea I will add a note to your bug that it seems to be broken in master as well
21:46 wizzyrea do me a favor though, and link me the bug number in channel when you get it done, okies?
21:49 libtek[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4837
21:49 munin Bug 4837: normal, P5, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW, Circulation Print Page uses incorrect heading / incorrect information
21:49 wizzyrea ty ty
21:50 libtek Thanks for the help.
21:52 wizzyrea yepper
21:52 wizzyrea there
21:52 wizzyrea I added my screencaps showing it's broken in master
21:53 libtek I see that.  Cool.  What is Master, btw?
21:53 wizzyrea it's the codebase that is going to become 3.2
21:54 libtek Ah.
21:54 wizzyrea the most up to date stuff
21:54 libtek Are you someone who contributes code then?
21:54 wizzyrea at the very least, the label on that column needs to be changed
21:54 wizzyrea I do, yep. But I only do little nitpicky stuff. :)
21:55 wizzyrea I pick off low hanging fruit :P
22:04 libtek Question...I was trying out the print slip, and I have the ability to print to a receipt printer.  The format is perfect for it.  However, it prints out 11" long.  Is it always going to do that, or is there a way to have it only print what is needed?
22:04 libtek Maybe  that is a limitation of printing from a web page?
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