IRC log for #koha, 2009-11-25

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:10 brendan left #koha
00:26 chris excellent russ
00:37 chris yeah vettori is playing well
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01:10 chris interesting i was searching the liblime site, to see if they had put up when they plan to release their LLEK code
01:10 chris[…]hableText=release
01:11 chris found[…]earchterm=release
01:12 pianohacker That's very interesting
01:13 chris Changes from June 1 Update ( to LibLime Enterprise Koha build 4.0000000
01:14 pianohacker Bleh, I might be helping with some training of a local consortium that has chosen LEK, so I'd better study up...
01:14 pianohacker At least now we know what happened to the enhanced fines module
01:14 chris train them in asking for it to be released :-)
01:14 chris yeah
01:14 chris siloed
01:15 chris its kinda naff they use their own bug tracker
01:15 chris so people who fixed the bugs get no credit
01:15 pianohacker also very siloed
01:15 chris yep
01:15 pianohacker I've used the internal bugzilla, but it had two-digit bug numbers in those days, and was mainly used for support stuff
01:16 pianohacker evidently that's changed
01:16 chris when i was there we used rt
01:16 chris but we linked to koha bug numbers
01:20 chris i wonder if there is a release now there are release notes
01:23 BuchBebbi I wish you a god night (or a sunny dax if you are at the other side of the earth :-)
01:24 chris good night :)
01:24 BuchBebbi is now known as bebbi
01:24 bebbi thx
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01:27 chris nope not anywhere i can find .. ah well, we live in hope
01:36 pianohacker If you had to search to find it, it's probably meant for internal use
01:36 chris well i wasnt even looking for it
01:36 chris was just seeing if they had put up anything about releases
01:36 chris but its not behind auth, so it will get in the google
01:44 pianohacker This is going to be very interesting to integrate
01:44 chris if we ever get the chance
01:44 pianohacker Because taken as a whole, this touches almost all of C4 and a good portion of cgi-bin
01:44 chris the longer they with hold it, the harder it gets
01:44 chris yeah
01:45 chris and without a git repo, which you and i both know they have
01:45 chris but just a tarball of the files, manually integrating .. when they branched off koha 30 odd db edits and who knows how many patches ago
01:45 chris is gonna be a nightmare
01:45 chris thats why they invented version control
01:47 pianohacker More interestingly, they seem to be using a separate version numbering
01:47 chris yup
01:49 chris imagine how hard it will be
01:49 chris when we change to TT
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02:01 pianohacker bye
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02:26 chris @wunder sydney australia
02:26 munin chris: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 26.0�C (1:00 PM EST on November 25, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 17.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
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03:21 Amit hi brendan, chris, chris_n2
03:21 Amit good morning #koha
03:21 chris hi Amit
03:24 brendan hello amit
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04:59 elpid101 hello everyone, i'm new to koha and i setup one, the problem is that the MARC records is not present or cannot be found in the catalouge.,, whenever i will querry in the catalouge
05:00 elpid101 something problem with my koha or just a little setup.. :)
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06:17 chris evening
06:18 nicomo morning
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06:25 |Lupin| hey there
06:31 |Lupin| till soon
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06:44 chris[…]9112559940300.htm
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07:17 Ropuch Good morning
07:23 greenmang0 hello
07:31 Amit hi nicomo
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09:13 paul_p @seen gmcharlt
09:13 munin paul_p: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 15 hours, 46 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> jwagner: yes, first Wednesday of each month is the regular meeting
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09:41 greenmang0 can anybody help me with this problem? if i upload a pdf in koha and search for a word written in that pdf... koha should show me the related pdf... is it possible.. if yes... how?
09:42 chris no
09:43 chris koha is a library management system, not a digital library, to do things like that you will want something like dspace, greenstone, fedora/fez, kete etc
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09:45 greenmang0 chris: ok...
09:45 greenmang0 chris: i hope it has nothing to do with full text search..... ?
09:45 greenmang0 :S
09:46 chris koha doesnt search documents
09:46 chris it searches metadata about documents
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09:47 chris if you want to search documents you want a digital library system, you can combine one with koha, but you will have to do some work to do that
09:47 greenmang0 chris: can you tell me how to combine? and what work i will have to do?
09:48 chris nope, and i dont know
09:48 chris it would depend entirely on what you used as a digital library system
09:49 greenmang0 chris: because koha's feature list says koha can be used as a digital library system
09:49 greenmang0 chris;
09:50 chris yeah you can do what Lupin has done and catalogue digital resources with it
09:50 chris but its not searching the document, just the data about the document
09:50 chris if you want to index the document, you need something else to do that
09:52 hdl hi chris
09:52 chris hi hdl
09:53 chris id edit that page on the site, it has some out of date info on it, but i cant
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10:22 greenmang0 chris: what do you mean by "do something else" ? if possible i can try it out
10:31 bebbi Hello world :-)
10:39 indradg greenmang0, use stuff like plucene and hack up a bunch of custom .pm modules or you may use Namazu have it working as a CGI and then again go the custom  perl module way
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10:56 greenmang0 indradg: Perl - The only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption. - Keith Bostic.
10:56 greenmang0 :D
11:00 indradg greenmang0, then plucene perhaps... based around the Lucene API (the stuff used by DSpace for full-text indexing)
11:01 greenmang0 indradg: ok... :)
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13:14 jdavidb hdl:  ping?
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13:15 hdl jdavidb: ?
13:15 hdl hi
13:15 hdl how are you ?
13:16 jdavidb howdy.  I'm well.  I got your note, and the conversation with Jane.  I've replied, but long-and-short is that I'll see about getting this out and available over the holiday weekend.  Will that be soon enough to be of use to you?
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13:17 Nate good morning everyone
13:17 jdavidb howdy, Nate.
13:18 Nate hiya jdavidb
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13:26 |Lupin| hi again all :)
13:28 chris_n g'morning
13:28 |Lupin| hi chris_n
13:29 |Lupin| I was wonderng
13:29 |Lupin| is there a way to have most recently added records (or items) displayed on opac start page ?
13:33 Ropuch
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13:34 owen "Check that it's real Koha and that you can download the exact same source to run on your own server if you want, though."
13:34 owen slef++
13:35 Ropuch Hi owen
13:42 jdavidb Hm...cfouts said in email that was healthy again, but I'm not able to get there this morning.  Anyone else having the same trouble?
13:43 nengard jdavidb me neither
13:43 nengard :(
13:43 jdavidb :(
13:45 |Lupin| Ropuch: thanks a lot
13:45 |Lupin| Ropuch: perhaps a bit to complex to set-up, and not exactly what we would need...
13:46 |Lupin| ON our old server the 20 most recent records were displayed on the start page, I think our librarian is missing this feature
13:46 Ropuch |Lupin|: np, actually displaying last added records should be much easier
13:46 nengard I need help - what do I do on Debian if I can't remember my MySQL login info? can I create a new user? or recover that info in any way?
13:46 Ropuch nengard: do you have root acces to mysql?
13:46 nengard yes
13:47 nengard DUH!!
13:47 nengard that's the username - ROOT :) hehe
13:47 jdavidb you can log in as root, and just reset it.  If you can't log in as root, there are ways to recover that.
13:47 nengard I'm so so so jetlagged and fuzzy
13:47 |Lupin| nengard: then grant should work... the thing that is documented in INSTA...debian in koha sources I think
13:47 Ropuch UPDATE mysql.user SET Password=PASSWORD('newpass') WHERE User='bob' AND Host='';
13:47 Ropuch (from mysql documentation)
13:48 |Lupin| grant all on *.* to user nengard identified by password('newpassword)');
13:48 |Lupin| something like this
13:48 |Lupin| (the exact thing is in the mentionned file)
13:49 |Lupin| k, have to go again, till soon all
13:49 |Lupin| bye
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13:51 magnusenger nengard: if it's the username/password Koha uses you can look in /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml (on a standard install)
13:53 nengard thanks magnusenger, it wasn't - it was one I set on the server and it was the username I was using wrong - I was trying my koha user instead of root :)
13:54 magnusenger nengard: ah... ;-)
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15:19 brendan good morning
15:20 nengard howdy
15:45 wizzyrea_ mornin peps
15:48 chris_n wizzyrea_: ate the rest of the pesto with wild goose last evening... they made a super good combination
15:49 chris_n fwiw: is back up... again
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16:08 nengard can i just say - documenting frameworks sucks - and i keep skipping around and editing other manual pieces instead of finishing it ;)
16:10 chris_n lol
16:10 chris_n nengard: the new documentation looks nice in yelp
16:10 nengard in yelp?
16:10 wizzyrea_ chris_n: wild goose!
16:11 wizzyrea_ I so should have proposed goose for thanksgiving
16:11 chris_n wizzyrea_: canadian to be exact :-)
16:11 wizzyrea_ aw, I drive past a flock of those every day
16:11 chris_n taken just outside my house
16:11 wizzyrea_ hehe wow!
16:12 chris_n btw, had a cauliflower the other day that had to be a good 14" across the head
16:14 chris_n nengard: yelp is the help client in gnome
16:14 nengard ah - it's also a consume review site - so i was confused :)
16:15 chris_n nengard: yelp file:///home/nobodyshere/ko​hadocs/en/koha3-2manual.xml
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16:24 wizzyrea_ bleh, I'm doing something wrong here:
16:24 wizzyrea_ SELECT borrowers.cardnumber, borrowers.surname, borrowers.firstname, borrowers.branchcode WHERE borrowers.cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%" AND borrowers.branchcode == "linwood"
16:25 wizzyrea_ what I need to know is all of the cardnumbers above that 100300800% range that are in linwood
16:25 wizzyrea_ i tried with single quotes
16:27 jdavidb use = instead of ==.
16:27 wizzyrea_ I tried that too :(
16:28 jdavidb I would word it thus:
16:28 jdavidb SELECT cardnumber,surname,firstname,branchcode FROM borrowers WHERE cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%" AND branchcode="LINWOOD".
16:28 jdavidb Probably, your branchcodes are all-caps, and the SELECT is case-sensitive.
16:29 wizzyrea_ I did it that way the first time, no results, and I know there *should* be results
16:30 jdavidb take out each half of the AND clause, to check each part independently?
16:31 jdavidb WHERE cardnumber LIKE "1003008003%"    and then WHERE branchcode="LINWOOD"
16:31 wizzyrea_ yea, that's where I'm headed. Blerg. One should not think this hard the day before thanksgiving
16:31 jdavidb aw..
16:31 wizzyrea_ :)
16:35 wizzyrea_ yea,  it doesn't want to combine those two things for whatever reason
16:35 wizzyrea_ it just refuses
16:35 wizzyrea_ I can get them independently
16:36 nengard okay - frameworks docs started - probably needs some work - but it's a start :)[…]8ee5f59c51bea8f5e
16:38 jdavidb might try some parentheses, wizzyrea_:   WHERE (cardnumber LIKE "foo" ) AND (branchcode="blah")    couldn't hoit.
16:44 wizzyrea_ well I must have had an extra space or something, now it works
16:44 wizzyrea_ i'm fuddled. Thanks jdavidb for looking
16:44 jdavidb woot!
16:44 jdavidb you're welcome.  :)
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17:03 chris_n arggg!
17:03 chris_n the cabinet installer just broke the water supply line underneath the house :-(
17:03 wizzyrea_ OMG! That sucks!!
17:04 chris_n yeah, the crawl space is about 12" high...
17:04 * chris_n looks around for a very short plumber
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17:15 wizzyrea chris_n: I don't discount at all the necessity of plumbers of all heights. I lived in a place with a very inconveniently located toilet, and you really did have to get a short, thin plumber to work on it.
17:15 owen There may be a market for toddlers with plumbing training...
17:16 * wizzyrea has a toddler... hmmm...
17:18 chris_n lol :-)
17:20 chris morning
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17:25 |Lupin| hi again everybody
17:25 |Lupin| our librarian just came to me with a strange issue...
17:26 |Lupin| she can't modify a user, and I can't either
17:26 |Lupin| Koha complains that the card number is already in use.
17:26 |Lupin| Has somebody already met this problem ?
17:26 bebbi Hi |Lupin|
17:26 |Lupin| guten Abend bebbi
17:27 wizzyrea |Lupin| are you using Owen's hack to put the quick add at the top?
17:27 wizzyrea |Lupin| patron quick add, that is
17:28 bebbi Auch einen sch�nen Aben |Lupin|  und viel Erfolg bei der Probleml�sung ...
17:28 |Lupin| wizzyrea: not that I know
17:28 |Lupin| wizzyrea: if it's not in master, then I think I don't use it.
17:29 |Lupin| wizzyrea: I just used the Edit link that appears besides to the user info in the member results after a search
17:29 |Lupin| bebbi: viel mal Danke. NIcht einfar.
17:30 wizzyrea |Lupin| owen's little jquery thing puts barcode/birthdate at the top of the add or edit screens, if you fill it in, it says you have a duplicate barcode when editing
17:31 |Lupin| wizzyrea: I don't have that... I'm using lynx anyway so that would not be active here, but I don't have it so I think it's a different problem
17:32 wizzyrea hrm
17:33 |Lupin| wizzyrea: which version of KOha do you have ?
17:33 wizzyrea it's older than yours, I think we have or somesuch
17:34 wizzyrea it's some ways back off of master
17:36 |Lupin| wizzyrea: ok, but not too far, thogh...
17:37 |Lupin| wizzyrea: would you mind trying to modify something related to a member, just to see if it works for you ?
17:37 wizzyrea |Lupin| I'm curious if the koha logs say anything
17:37 |Lupin| wizzyrea: like just adding a space in an address, so something like that...
17:37 wizzyrea |Lupin| we'd have heard about it if it didn't work, our librarians are doing it every day
17:37 wizzyrea it definitely works for us :(
17:38 |Lupin| I can check the logs...
17:40 hdl |Lupin| ? Can you tell me more ?
17:42 |Lupin| wizzyrea: it doesn't like line 722 of members/ my $newentry = { map { $_ => $entry->{$_} } %$entry };
17:42 |Lupin| rather unclear to me...
17:42 |Lupin| hdl: sure I can... the error is ERROR_cardnumber
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17:43 |Lupin| hi jane
17:43 jwagner hi |Lupin|
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17:43 hdl hi jwagner
17:44 jwagner hi hdl
17:49 nengard Hi all -Report question - how would I query info in the Marc record?  Like if I wanted to grab a list of subject headings and count how many times they're each used?
17:52 * owen Chirping crickets
17:54 nengard uh huh
17:54 nengard was scared of that
17:54 nengard come on people - you can't tell me that no customers ever asked for this ....
17:56 jwagner nengard, _I_ ask for lots of stuff like that -- the ability to dump out particular MARC fields, the ability to edit particular MARC fields, etc. etc.  It just isn't real easy to do with Koha's handling of MARC records.  I have plans.....
17:57 nengard hmmm
17:57 nengard i don't mind hard - i just need to see one example to try and do it for myself and my customers
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18:00 jwagner You won't get one from me -- I haven't figured it out myself.  Some of our MySQL experts may have, I think, but I Are No Expert.
18:01 owen I would think you'd need some kind of specialized query of Zebra
18:01 nengard why zebra - isn't the marc stored in the mysql tables?
18:02 jdavidb In one big field, yes.
18:02 jwagner It's in one big blob in biblioitems, if I remember correctly.  The trick is reading that blob & extracting just what you want.
18:02 nengard k
18:03 jdavidb I've seen a few things where you can grab a control field, like if 001 starts with EBL on a bunch of records, with WHERE biblioitems.marcxml LIKE '%<controlfield tag="001">EBL%'   but that is *really* gruesome.
18:04 jdavidb brute-force searches of the marcxml would be very inefficient, I should think.
18:04 chris_n nengard: I think the marc is stored as a blog in xml in biblioitems
18:04 nengard yep - found that
18:04 chris_n what jdavidb said :-)
18:04 |Lupin| someone remembers how to temporarily disable a unicity constraint in mysql, pls ?
18:05 nengard okay - so how do we pull data out of the blob to print on the screen - and on the catalogign form
18:05 nengard isn't there a query for that? or are we doing it a diff way
18:05 chris_n nengard: you could write a script using XML::Simple to do something with it perhaps
18:05 chris_n but probably not a direct SQL query
18:06 jdavidb At the hitlist level, it's coming from Zebra, mostly.  When you get to the edit screen, it's being SELECTed on the biblionumber, and XML libraries are being used to chop it up for editing, then put it back together again.
18:06 jdavidb If I'm understanding it right.
18:06 nengard hmm
18:06 nengard this is not good news at all
18:07 nengard every cataloger wants data on the items they've cataloged - data about authors, subject headings, etc etc etc
18:07 jdavidb nope.    It's a tremendous weakness in the data model.  If you don't store it in SQL, basically, reporting Just Won't Happen
18:07 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "marcxml blob example" (106 lines) at
18:07 chris_n nengard: ^^
18:08 nengard chris_n yeah i have that open
18:08 nengard and i understand what jdavidb is saying - but trying to count the occurences of subject headings or authors when there can be morethan one per blob is where i'm stuck
18:10 jdavidb you would almost need a hook into zebra to do searches like that, and get back the biblionumbers of relevant records, then just slice-and-dice those.
18:10 jwagner nengard, both jdavidb and I come from Sirsi Unicorn, where you had lots of tools to be able to export and manipulate not only the item data but the MARC data itself.  I used to produce massive cleanup lists for the catalogers of subject headings with typos, outdated subject headings, 856s for URL checking, etc.  I _really_ miss that with Koha.
18:11 nengard so maybe we need to figure out how to fix koha so that that can be done
18:11 * jdavidb hands nengard the keys to a Maserati with no transmission.
18:11 nengard data should be stored in individual fields in a table(s)
18:11 chris_n jdavidb: lol!
18:12 jwagner That's one of my long-term dreams for Koha development.  Of course, that means someone else (cough, cough) gets to do the actual work -- it's beyond me.  But I know what I want it to do!
18:12 jdavidb oh, heck no, nengard.  Every change to the MARC standard would require restructuring of the database tables.
18:12 nengard okay - then what do you suggest?
18:12 jwagner There are (there have to be) tools to store the MARC record itself in a table, and parse out the fields/subfields as needed.
18:13 jdavidb Storing the MARCXML not in a blob in the table, perhaps, but in a separate XML-native database, which could do that sort of searching inherently.
18:13 jwagner Then the MARC record links to the items & whatever other tables it needs to, like now on biblionumber.
18:13 jdavidb Either that, or better XML slice-and-dicing available to the reports module.  (since none is available now)
18:13 chris_n nengard: jdavidb's suggestion of zebra + script is probably the best solution given the status quo
18:13 nengard my prob with the marcxml - or the way it's presented is things like the subject headings which you can't search or browse in koha in the way a cataloger would expect
18:13 nengard i don't want to just see $a - I want to see the entire subject heading - all subfields
18:13 nengard and i want to search for them that way too
18:14 nengard chris_n - I know mysql - I do not know perl or zebra - and so i'm screwed if that's the only option
18:14 * jdavidb edits nengard's last to read "...i'm screwed for now if that's..."
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18:15 nengard and how long is 'for now'?
18:15 jdavidb Until someone has some serious time to hack on it.  Or serious sponsorship.
18:15 nengard right - so a long long long time
18:15 nengard :(
18:15 jdavidb Not necessarily.
18:15 nengard you know something i don't know
18:15 nengard like thatyou're going ot have serious time or funding soon?
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18:15 jdavidb yeah, I do.  I know what needs hacking.  I don't know about time or funding, no.
18:16 jwagner We've been kicking around ideas on this for months.  Just a question of getting the time and funding....
18:16 nengard yup
18:16 jdavidb My approach, rather than trash the data model, would be a re-do of the reports module, to include tools for searching Zebra and extracting and displaying MARC fields.
18:16 jdavidb Seems to me that'd be the smaller problem.
18:17 jwagner I have lots of other dreams, too, like making it easier to control what fields are indexed and displayed.
18:17 nengard better idea - that others have had - scrap zebra alltogether
18:17 nengard it's more trouble than it's worth
18:17 nengard i think it was chris and nahuel
18:17 jdavidb Handle the search part like Sirsi's seltext API, which does searches Just Like The Opac, and gives back biblionumbers.
18:18 jdavidb Wouldn't hurt my feelings to switch to some sort of native-XML database.
18:18 jwagner Fine by me -- zebra's caused me nothing but grief every time I've had to mess with it.  As long as there is something better, which I think there is.
18:18 chris_n nengard: nozebra code in koha has many more problems iirc than zebra has problems
18:18 chris_n so that solution would take some major changes as well
18:19 * chris_n thinks could also benefit from a re-factor, however
18:19 jdavidb Replacing Zebra would be major surgery.  Major-major.  Like, take-your-brain-out-and-put-it-another-body major.
18:19 nengard jdavidb - well that said - i know it's in the plans
18:19 nengard that's what i know :) hehe
18:20 jdavidb :)  I'm glad.  Zebra has a number of issues that limit its' usefulness, IMO.
18:20 nengard yup yup
18:20 jdavidb I'd like to see things modified where any arbitrary metadata format can be used, and the user can control display, indexing, everything, from inside Koha frameworks.
18:20 nengard frameworks - another area worth ranting about
18:21 jwagner Don't Get Me Started!
18:21 nengard why the heck do i have to delete each individual tag one at a time? if I want to create a brief record template it takes nearly an hour to remove all the fields i don't need
18:21 nengard i need checkboxes
18:21 |Lupin| mysql> alter table borrowers drop key cardnumber;
18:21 |Lupin| this fails with the following error:
18:22 * chris_n thinks nengard should like the labels interface if checkboxes make her happy
18:22 |Lupin| ERROR 1025 (HY000): Error on rename of './braillenet_koha/#sql-723_ef' to './braillenet_koha/borrowers' (errno: 150)
18:22 |Lupin| any idea ? :)
18:22 |Lupin| I feel dry...
18:22 jdavidb chris_n, do you think my notion of hacking on the report module is the Right Way to go at it?
18:22 nengard lol - they don't always - but it just seems stupid to have over 300 links to delete things ... ther eare more efficient options
18:22 chris_n jdavidb: that is probably the approach I would take give the way things are
18:22 nengard reports needs work too - i'm with you on that
18:23 jdavidb Use to do the searches, so a refactor there won't break anything, then write some sort of report definition language to allow the user to snag the MARC fields.
18:23 nengard i'd love to be able to put my where clause in using the wizard -
18:23 chris_n |Lupin|: probably a foreign key or unique key problem
18:24 |Lupin| chris_n: aaaah... hmm I'd need to temporarily disable the unicity checks on cardnumbers so that I can update them... not sure how I should do...
18:24 jdavidb Boxes:   Search this <box>, then output this: <box>, sorted by <box>  ...user fills in the boxes, and a report jumps out.
18:24 |Lupin| maybe I can do m updates in a clever way, actually...
18:25 chris_n |Lupin|: SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS=0;
18:25 chris_n |Lupin|: SET UNIQUE_KEY_CHECKS=0;
18:25 chris_n |Lupin|: and then set them back to 1 afterwards
18:25 nengard jdavidb - add - where <box>
18:26 |Lupin| chris_n: ahhh thanks ! I was pretty sure I already did such a thing but couldn't find the magical lines... thanks !!
18:26 fredericd nengard: Concerning framework editing, since you're a SQL wizard, just do it direcly in MySQL. With marc_tag_structure and marc_subfield_structure tables...
18:26 fredericd can't agree more on your marcxml reporting discussion...
18:26 fredericd even if I'm not sure Zebra is so bad...
18:26 nengard fredericd - yes I can do that - but the librarians I train can't - so they sit there for hours clicking delete
18:27 nengard we need to design for the librarians - not the sql experts
18:27 |Lupin| chris_n: ERROR 1062 (23000): Duplicate entry '3' for key 'cardnumber'
18:27 |Lupin| (although it has been disabled...
18:28 fredericd so it's just a matter of improving UI: not very invoicable
18:28 |Lupin| (althogh the checks have been disabled, I mean)
18:28 jwagner What I'd like is one table that is the complete MARC standard -- 000 through 999.  Then make the frameworks select fields to display & edit from the standard as needed (for books, serials, whatever).  But there's only one underlying MARC, which will make it easier to maintain when LC makes changes.
18:28 chris_n |Lupin|: I'm not sure there
18:29 |Lupin| chris_n: ok, np, I'll see if I can do my updates in a way that aways respects the constraints...
18:30 chris_n jwagner: so various frameworks essentially become simple "filters" through which one views the standard
18:30 chris_n nice solution
18:30 chris_n |Lupin|: you did disable both foreign key and unique key checks?
18:30 jwagner After suffering through years of updating 12-15 format policies in Unicorn every time there was a change to the MARC standard (Unicorn also has them separate), believe me I'll do anything to simplify the frameworks!
18:31 chris_n simplification++
18:31 paul_p joined #koha
18:31 chris_n wb paul_p
18:31 jdavidb Better quit talking about paul_p..he's here!
18:31 jwagner As much as I used to complain about Unicorn, though, I have to admit that it did do a LOT of things right.  I want to steal, er, adapt some of those for Koha.
18:32 paul_p sorry, but not really here : just checking my gmail calendar for a meeting with a teacher of my 1st son.
18:33 chris_n jdavidb: ok we can go back to talking about paul_p since he's not really here ;-)
18:33 fredericd salut Paul !
18:33 jdavidb okay.
18:33 jwagner Pay no attention to that man behind the alias....
18:34 * chris_n wishes he could think code and it appear in vim
18:34 chris_n things would go a lot faster
18:34 jwagner I dream in code sometimes.  Does that work too?
18:35 chris_n that's a step in the right direction
18:36 jwagner But I can think of more exciting things to dream about :-(
18:36 chris_n heh
18:38 jdavidb chris_n:  for the searching bit, what if you created a variation of C4::Search::SimpleSearch to return biblionumbers instead of MARC results?  It can take a CCL query as input, which is what you'd want the user putting in the box.
18:39 chris the thing that we have to deal with
18:39 chris that others simply dont bother with
18:39 chris is the fact we deal with more than just MARC21
18:39 nengard left #koha
18:39 chris whatever you do cannot break what is a fundamentally cool feature of Koha
18:40 jdavidb chris:  yep.  That's why I have this mad dream of using some mechanism to allow any arbitrary metadata form--any of the MARCish ones, or DC, or MODS, whatever you can describe in an XML DTD.
18:40 chris yep
18:40 chris_n chris: will the cleanup of circulation include some cleanup of C4::Search?
18:41 chris C4::Search is on the list to be refactored/rewritten for 3.4
18:41 chris its about 2000 lines too long for a start
18:41 |Lupin| when a member is modified from within staff client, is it's password also modified ?
18:41 |Lupin| I'm asking because there is some value in the password field so I hope modifying user info does not alter the password ?
18:41 chris |Lupin|: no, only when you modify it
18:41 jwagner It shouldn't be unless you specifically edit the password field.
18:42 chris but letting the reports talk to the xml would be good too
18:43 |Lupin| jwagner: well, when I go from field to field I can see there is some value there but perhaps it is ignored... I don't understand how that could be achieved, though
18:43 paul_p left #koha
18:43 chris postgres has an xml datatype
18:43 chris_n chris: I was wondering about that
18:44 chris and then by using xpath and views
18:44 chris you can search/report over it
18:44 chris materialised views
18:44 chris make the db do the work for ya
18:45 chris_n yup, very cool xml functions there
18:45 chris we need a hackfest
18:45 chris_n very fast too, with the db engine doing the work
18:45 chris_n pg++
18:45 chris to try things like this
18:46 chris but yeah i think we need to try some things
18:46 chris pg xml datatypes
18:46 chris solr
18:46 chris etc
18:46 chris get some wip branches going
18:47 chris ill bring up the idea of cool friday
18:47 chris at the next dev meeting
18:47 chris_n mysql also has some xml functions
18:47 chris 1 friday a month
18:47 chris ppl do a show and tell of cool things they are playing with
18:47 chris often things like that are the spark needed
18:48 chris (at work we have a pizza thursday for that)
18:48 chris_n *sigh* many areas to explore little time
18:49 chris yep
18:50 chris i do think a quick middle ground is jdavidb idea of allowing the reports module to query individual marc fields via zebra
18:50 chris query the sql
18:51 chris or query marc
18:51 jdavidb Wouldn't require a great deal of work to at least get the *querying* part working.
18:51 chris *nod*
18:51 chris and for things like, how many records are using this subject heading
18:51 chris would be useful
18:51 chris ok bus time
18:55 tomascohen left #koha
19:04 |Lupin| our librarian just forwarded to me amessage she received entitled "User Request for update of Record."
19:05 |Lupin| can that be send by a spammer, or should that be regarded as a legitimate request ?
19:06 indradg left #koha
19:07 jwagner If the patron logged into his account and changed account details, it would generate that email to the library.
19:08 |Lupin| jwagner: oh yes ?
19:09 |Lupin| jwagner: so it is mandatory that when a patron modifies his details this has to be one by the librarian then ?
19:09 * chris_n wanders off on the xml tangent for a while
19:09 |Lupin| jwagner: cause the mail does not say changes have been done, it requires the librarian to do them...
19:11 jwagner Right -- that's basic security.  Patrons don't get to edit the database directly.  (Except for enhanced messaging settings.)
19:12 |Lupin| jwagner: hmm! so this is something that can't be changed ??
19:12 jwagner It probably could but I don't think it should be changed.  Bad idea to open up edit rights.
19:13 |Lupin| jwagner: oh but if the patron is logged in...
19:13 jwagner I'm a little surprised that when the enhanced messaging section was added it allows direct edits.
19:14 brendan joined #koha
19:14 |Lupin| hmm I'm prety sure our librarian won't be very happy when I'll tell her tha she will have to do manually with the new system something that didn't require her intervension with the old one...
19:16 owen jwagner: At least enhanced messaging edits aren't potentially destructive
19:17 jwagner owen, yes, that's probably why it was done.  It just surprised me.
19:17 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "mysql XPath Foo" (9 lines) at
19:18 chris_n jdavidb: ^^
19:18 jdavidb woot!
19:18 chris_n very cool and very easy
19:18 jdavidb chris_n++
19:20 jdavidb you could SELECT the ExtractValue AS somethingshort FROM biblioitems WHERE anything you please;   then?
19:20 jwagner chris_n++ Loverly!  When can we have it???
19:20 chris_n I've not worked through the particulars yet
19:21 jwagner details, details....
19:21 chris_n I think something like SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT xmlfoo), xpath-foo) might be possible
19:22 jdavidb Looks like you could do SELECT ExtractValue(marcxml, ' stuff') AS stuff from biblioitems WHERE ...
19:22 bebbi Bye bye everybody
19:22 chris_n[…].1-6.0.html#xml-5.1-extractvalue
19:22 * jdavidb plans an essperiment.  jwagner, if I'm right, it's *already in there*.
19:22 chris_n is where I've been mining info
19:23 chris_n "thar's gold in them thar hills"
19:23 bebbi left #koha
19:25 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "more mysql XPath Foo" (9 lines) at
19:25 chris_n it gets cooler by the minute
19:26 * chris_n looks around for nengard
19:26 jwagner can you do a select where, say, author = Somebody?
19:27 jdavidb You've already got that in biblio or bibliotiems.  This would be most useful for things that aren't there, or are repeated fields, like 650s.
19:29 jwagner can you do where 650 = Something?
19:29 chris_n where does not seem to work with the query's current form
19:30 jwagner But you could at least dump out all the 650s, then use another script or tool to manipulate them?  Maybe dump out their biblionumbers too so you can track back to the record.
19:30 jdavidb possibly.
19:31 jwagner Like Joel Hahn's tool for Unicorn -- dump out the fields, then use something else to play with them.
19:32 chris_n at any rate, it is clear that more of the xml parsing could be pushed off to the mysql engine
19:32 chris_n and the reporting module can access the xml elements more directly
19:33 jwagner Cool!  We Wants It, We Wants It!!!
19:35 brendan left #koha
19:40 |Lupin| jwagner: coming back to the conversation we had about letting or not patrons modify their data... would it be acceptable to store their requests in a database table and to let a staff member moderate them ?
19:44 jwagner I'm not the security guru, but I have a real reluctance to allow anyone outside the staff module modify substantive data (including addresses, email, etc.).  I'm not sure how storing it in a table would be much different than just having the librarian look at the email.  Someone would still need to moderate in some fashion.
19:45 |Lupin| jwagner: yes, but moderate could be done just by pressing a buton
19:45 |Lupin| jwagner: whereas here one has to figure out which field has changed, then copy/paste the value... not that simple IMO
19:45 jwagner If you write a lot of backend code to do it, yes.  How many of these changes do you expec?
19:45 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "mysql XPath Foo Multiple 952$p fields" (25 lines) at
19:46 chris_n more xml foo for those interested ^^
19:46 chris back
19:46 chris_n hmm.... foo fodder?
19:47 jwagner chris+n, not sure what the example is doing.  The first one is selecting all barcodes, yes?  And where it says subfield[@code="p"][2] that's saying give me the second barcode?
19:47 rhcl @seen pianohacker
19:47 munin rhcl: pianohacker was last seen in #koha 17 hours, 45 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <pianohacker> bye
19:47 |Lupin| jwagner: I don't know.. I just find it inconvenient to do just one change, especially when you read in braille inding out what has changed is not easy
19:48 |Lupin| perhaps the mail could list only the fields that have been modified and that would make the thing a bit easier...
19:48 jwagner Yes, in your case that might be worth doing some development to make it easier.
19:50 chris_n jwagner: correct
19:50 |Lupin| jwagner: doesn't it make any difference for a sighted person ? difficult for me to evaluate whether this looks difficult to me because I'm blind or because I'm lazy
19:50 chris_n just array notation to specify which barcode
19:50 jwagner chris_n, can you make it put some kind of separator between the barcodes?
19:50 chris_n but mysql array elements begin with 1 not 0 like perl
19:51 chris_n jwagner: maybe with a concat()?
19:51 jwagner to get output like JL08040014|JL08121992, so another script could split them up?
19:52 chris so you can do this
19:52 jwagner |Lupin|, I'm not too familiar with the output of that edit page, but the layout could probably be improved for everyone.
19:53 chris_n concat() does not do what might be expected... it puts the separator after the result set
19:53 chris_n ie JL08040014 JL08121992|
19:55 chris jdavidb: have you listed on the wiki?
19:56 chris_n 'SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT marcxml FROM biblioitems WHERE biblionumber=14), '//datafield[@tag="952"]/subfield[@code>="a"]') AS ITEM;' returns the entire 952 data for all 952 fields
19:56 chris_n non-delimited of course
19:56 chris you know what
19:56 jdavidb Not yet, chris; I just got it breathing today.
19:56 chris awesome work
19:58 chris if you do a sub query or two, you could report over subject headings that way quite easily
19:59 chris_n chris: there seems to be a large potential to dis-encumber some of koha's code very easily here
19:59 chris yup
19:59 chris_n 3.4 stuff?
19:59 chris i mean there is no way youd every want to search using this
19:59 chris but reports, that'd be fine
20:00 chris_n its a bit limited... the wish-list could easily get large
20:01 chris yep
20:01 chris but being able to do things like, find me all the biblios that use clown as their subject heading
20:01 chris could be done
20:02 chris_n it really needs WHERE ability
20:03 chris subselects
20:03 chris where 'fish' IN SELECT ExtractValue((SELECT marcxml FROM biblioitems WHERE biblionumber=14),  '//datafield[@tag="952"]/subfield[@code>="a"]')
20:03 chris changing it to be 650a
20:03 chris and fixing the brackets
20:09 jwagner As a first step toward usability, I wonder if we could predefine a few useful searches/outputs, like give me all the 650s and do reports for them in the delivered group.
20:10 chris yeah thats what should do ill have a play round lunchtime
20:10 jwagner chris++
20:10 jwagner and chris_n++ again!
20:11 jdavidb @karma chris
20:11 munin jdavidb: Karma for "chris" has been increased 77 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 77.
20:11 jdavidb @karma chris_n
20:11 munin jdavidb: Karma for "chris_n" has been increased 21 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 21.
20:11 chris @karma
20:11 munin chris: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (chris) are ranked 1 out of 566.
20:11 jwagner No surprises there!
20:11 chris release_notes_with_no_release--
20:11 chris :)
20:11 * jdavidb grins evilly
20:11 jdavidb @karma kados
20:11 munin jdavidb: Karma for "kados" has been increased 16 times and decreased 2 times for a total karma of 14.
20:12 jwagner @karma
20:12 munin jwagner: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (jwagner) are ranked 15 out of 567.
20:13 * jdavidb cheers jwagner on.
20:13 chris_n @karma
20:13 munin chris_n: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (chris_n) are ranked 12 out of 567.
20:13 jdavidb @karma
20:13 munin jdavidb: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (jdavidb) are ranked 27 out of 567.
20:13 * jwagner cheers jdavidb on in return!
20:14 * chris_n finds it funny that opening comment tags have the lowest karma
20:14 jdavidb Gonna try to fling a few branches over the wall this the public repo breathing, which helps a little.
20:14 jwagner probably people pasting code in, like <! -- etc.
20:14 chris yep
20:15 jwagner jdavidb++ for flinging
20:15 chris jdavidb++
20:15 chris public_repos++
20:15 jdavidb woot!
20:15 chris_n jdavidb++
20:15 jdavidb @karma
20:15 munin jdavidb: Highest karma: "chris" (77), "owen" (63), and "paul_p" (59).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-26), "failed" (-20), and "src="<!" (-10).  You (jdavidb) are ranked 18 out of 567.
20:15 jdavidb wow!
20:15 jwagner Wow, gone from 27 to 18???
20:17 chris yeah its a long tail
20:19 |Lupin| chris: our librarian asks me whether it is possible to see the recent additions to the catalogue on OPAC's start page... I don't know. Anyh idea pls ?
20:20 * chris_n comes back in off of the xml tangent
20:20 chris_n time to go back to work :-|
20:21 chris yes
20:22 chris is the short answer
20:22 chris ill give you the long answer after work ;)
20:23 |Lupin| chris: cool ! after work means tomorrow morning UTC+1 ?
20:24 chris about 9 hours time from now
20:24 |Lupin| hmm very early then here... not sure I'll be awaken...
20:25 |Lupin| chris: do you want me to send you a reminder and thenperhaps you'd send me the response by email ?
20:25 chris can do
20:25 jwagner jdavidb had dome some development for a new books list -- is that ready to fling out too?
20:26 jdavidb The first rev of it is.  I have some enhancements in mind, that I may or may not get too any time soon.
20:26 jdavidb It's not *beautiful*, but it works.  Someone else might love on it and make it wonderful.
20:34 |Lupin| jdavidb: what is it exactly that you have developed ?
20:35 jdavidb a front-page addon for new titles.  It's got several sysprefs attached, for flexibility in setup--lets you exclude a group of item types, title the box how you want, that kind of thing.
20:36 jdavidb It looks like a hitlist result, right now.  I want to do a shelf-browser-looking thing, as V2.
20:36 jdavidb Sysprefs also let you say how many days something is "new", and how many items to put on the front page.
20:37 jdavidb You can say, 21 days, and 10 items, and it'll list the ten newest titles in the catalog, unless they're older than 21 days.
20:40 rhcl @seen kyle
20:40 munin rhcl: kyle was last seen in #koha 8 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <kyle> It wouldn't be a bad idea to add the messages to the Borrower Details screen as well.
20:40 rhcl Hummm, where's kyle been lately?
20:40 chris he isnt usually on #koha
20:40 chris never really has been
20:41 chris email is your best bet
20:41 rhcl Yea, I wanted to chat with him about his kiosk app.
20:42 jdavidb left #koha
20:42 * jwagner is glad to be working from home this afternoon -- the traffic maps already look gruesome as the holiday traffic hits....
20:45 Nate left #koha
20:47 rhcl found this note interesting: "Added koha2libki script to delete accounts in libki that no longer exist in koha."
20:53 hdl |Lupin|: there is a recentacquisition page
20:54 hdl you can get that in 3.0.5
20:58 gmcharlt_ joined #koha
20:58 gmcharlt left #koha
21:07 |Lupin| okay, back o real coding... see you later all !
21:07 |Lupin| left #koha
21:13 owen Happy Thanksgiving, US folks, and happy rest-of-the-week all others!
21:13 owen left #koha
21:15 hdl happy thanksgiving
21:15 * chris_n heads out for the holiday
21:19 Ropuch yay
21:21 jwagner Yes, for non-USians, you probably won't see many of us until next week.  Four-day weekends are nice :-)
21:23 Ropuch My Koha presentation on Open Solaris is considered the best one
21:24 * Ropuch is proud ;>
21:24 chris wooo well done Ropuch
21:24 chris maybe you can give that presentation at kohacon next year :-)
21:24 chris jwagner: have a good break
21:25 chris todays theme song
21:25 chris[…]ightning/23019967
21:26 Ropuch chris: if my boss will buy me ticket ;>
21:26 chris :) can't hurt to ask
21:27 Ropuch Actually I've always wanted to visit that part of the world
21:27 Ropuch so I'm seriously considering holiday trip plus kohacon [;
21:32 chris good idea
21:32 chris october is a good time to visit, not overrun by tourists
21:36 henrybankh joined #koha
21:44 nicomo left #koha
21:47 henrybankh I am having a problem with my symbolic link between apache2 and koha-httpd.conf
21:48 henrybankh and  NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
21:49 rich-away left #koha
21:50 henrybankh I think my problems involve sudo a2dissite default, how do I undo it's effects?
22:00 jwagner Happy Thanksgiving everyone -- see you next week.
22:00 jwagner left #koha
22:04 Ropuch a2ensite?
22:05 Ropuch a2ensite is opposite to a2dissite
22:05 Ropuch bah
22:05 Ropuch Good night everubody
22:11 henrybankh I tried a2ensite also
22:12 henrybankh but I still get  NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
22:14 magnusenger left #koha
22:23 magnus left #koha
22:28 hdl henrybankh: you should disable NameVirtualhost in /etc/apache2/ports.conf
23:09 rhcl left #koha
23:15 chris_n2 joined #koha
23:19 henrybankh by commenting it out# and then restart aapche?
23:21 hdl yes
23:21 henrybankh thanks--I thry now
23:21 matts left #koha
23:22 henrybankh so good, when I restarted apache no error
23:24 henrybankh but I get the 404 error when I go to local host
23:26 henrybankh so my sym links are messed up I think
23:27 matts joined #koha
23:29 hdl henrybankh: maybe your default vhost is messing up with your opac
23:33 henrybankh hdl: I think my default is missing? I don't see a default in sites-enabled only koha
23:35 henrybankh hdl: In sites available I have abroken symbolic link also

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