IRC log for #koha, 2009-11-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:02 ftherese I think I hit the jackpot
00:02 ftherese
00:02 joetho I think I crashed my z39 client
00:03 joetho that looks very french!
00:04 joetho good luck ftherese. I need to leave pretty soon.
00:04 ftherese thanks!
00:05 joetho You'll find lots of answers here.
00:05 ftherese the only problem now is that it locates the records but doesn't download them!
00:05 ftherese ttyl
00:05 joetho <---not so many from me, but from others
00:05 joetho if you can see them you can download them, usually
00:05 joetho you'll solve it
00:05 joetho ttyl
00:06 joetho after changing my targets a bit, my z39 client quit entirely
00:06 joetho frozen.
00:06 joetho Time to take a break.
00:06 joetho left #koha
00:07 rich-away is now known as richard
00:21 pianohacker good night, #koha
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00:56 brendan cya in a bit #koha
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02:36 chris_n2 C4::Search seems a bit convoluted to me
02:36 chris damn skippy
02:36 chris its on my proposal
02:37 chris or the most part this module does it job, but it is overly complicated and hard to maintain and change. Refactoring this a major goal.
02:37 chris_n2 I was going to try to dress up the available item count a bit, but on second thought... :-P
02:37 chris yeah, its gonna get a rewrite
02:39 chris_n2 "Availability:  Copies available:  Jones Library (1), Jones Library (1), " should be "Availability:  Copies available:  Jones Library (2)" imho
02:40 chris that would certainly be a lot nicer
03:21 * chris_n2 hears his pillow calling... g'night #koha
03:21 chris night
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03:32 Amit hi chris, brendan
03:32 Amit good morning #koha
03:32 brendan Hi Amit
03:32 brendan @wunder 93117
03:32 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.6�C (7:27 PM PST on November 02, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1015.8 hPa (Rising).
03:42 Amit @wunder Delhi
03:42 munin Amit: Error: No such location could be found.
03:42 Amit @wunder New Delhi
03:42 munin Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 21.0�C (8:30 AM IST on November 03, 2009). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 15.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
03:43 Amit @wunder Bangalore
03:43 munin Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 21.0�C (8:30 AM IST on November 03, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: 18.0�C.
04:02 brendan left #koha
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04:20 Amit @wunder Dehradun
04:20 munin Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 14.0�C (5:30 AM IST on November 03, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa.
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04:54 brendan night all
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04:59 thd-away is now known as thd
05:00 thd chris: are you there?
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06:26 richard back
06:49 chris i am now thd
06:50 thd chris: I had a question about non-Zebra Koha but I found the answer.
06:50 chris cool
06:50 chris
06:50 chris i think abrams has bit off more than he can chew really
06:51 chris its starting to make mainstream press
06:51 thd chris: Do you know of anyone using non-MARC Koha 3.0?
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06:54 chris no
06:54 chris but only because you cant
06:54 chris not because they dont want to
06:54 Ropuch Good morning #koha
06:55 Ropuch Hi chris, thd
06:55 thd hello Ropuch
06:56 chris hi Ropuch
06:56 thd chris: yes I had thought that the code to support non-MARC is gone.
06:56 thd chris: having the system preference to allow the choice of code which is no-longer there is dangerous.
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06:58 thd chris: The value should not be adjustable without changing the code unless there is some intention to support the option .
06:59 chris yes
07:02 magnusenger joined #koha
07:04 thd chris: If Abram had made the investigation of Koha of and Evergreen which he claims that libraries should, then he would have knowledge for criticisms which might legitimately scare libraries.
07:06 thd chris: Misdirecting people is easier than doing the hard work of informing them about important issues.
07:10 chris exactly
07:10 thd Does Koha and Evergreen violate hundreds of SirsiDynix patents come next?
07:10 chris i suspect so
07:11 chris i don't think he realised that he has now picked a fight with the entire floss community, not just liblime and equinox, who were his targets
07:11 chris there is a comment pending from me for his blog, which im waiting to see if he lets through
07:11 thd then the issue may make it to Slashdot
07:12 chris it made Linux Weekly News and Free Software Daily
07:12 chris i suspect it might make linux journal and the register next
07:13 chris he left himslef wide open with this
07:13 chris As everyone can note, and having been a librarian for over 30 years, I do my research based on as much information as I can get whether I have to ask for it or not. It's just not that big a barrier when the decision is important. Others may disagree but I just have this value system that guides me to seek the full information regardless of my personal preferences and beliefs
07:13 chris which is his reply to the latest comment
07:13 chris so i quoted that and said
07:14 chris In that case, for FLOSS everyone can get the full information, will you give me the source code for symphony if I ask for it? If so, consider this asking for it
07:15 chris he also said "When I have the full information, only then I can make my recommendations and decisions."
07:15 chris and I said, this is what FLOSS allows ... why are you against it?
07:16 chris so it wil be interesting to see if it makes it
07:18 thd He has said that he is for it except for his own business.
07:20 thd He basically said at some point that open source is OK even SirsiDynix uses it when appropriate but it is a poor choice for the ILS as a whole..
07:22 thd When SirsiDynix is integrating it, then open source is OK.  When replacing SirsiDynix, then open source is communism.
07:22 chris yep :)
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07:24 thd chris: If he replies, I expect you will have some equivalent to that would undermine our business, that would be communism argument.
07:24 chris the longer he tries to defend his position, the worse it looks
07:24 chris *nod*
07:25 thd The trouble is that SirsiDynix is no longer being run by people who are concentrating on making good software for libraries.
07:26 thd Those good people sold out.
07:26 thd The recent management is scary.
07:28 chris yep, and abrams is a major shareholder and is rearranging deck chairs on the titanic
07:29 thd The may not be scary enough to make real legal threats but I have had a detailed question prepared for the Software Freedom Law Center for the past couple of months specifically about the Sirsi API and committing migration code to Koha which uses it.
07:30 thd We need solid legal advice as a basis for encouraging one of the major areas which support companies hold back on committing code to Koha.
07:30 kf joined #koha
07:31 kf morning #koha
07:31 thd We should have system X to Koha migration scripts in Koha.
07:31 thd hello kf
07:31 kf hello thd
07:32 kf thd: got my mail?
07:32 thd I had not seen it yet.
07:32 * thd checks his mail
07:34 chris id prefer that to be in its in own repository
07:34 chris and not part of koha
07:35 chris in all the migrations i have been part of, i have made it the libraries job to get the data out
07:35 chris i dont want to taint koha
07:35 chris its just not worth it
07:35 chris even if you have a solid case, that often doesnt matter
07:35 chris its easier/safer to just avoid the issue
07:36 thd chris: being right is often not of much matter but we need to find a safe way to share such scripts where they are free and everyone can contribute to them.
07:37 chris yeah, id prefer they are totally seperate to koha
07:37 thd s/matter/matter in court/
07:39 thd chris: However, even if you link or otherwise point to the repository over there whatever legal hazard exists will exist for merely pointing.
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07:46 magnusenger oups, i have my migration scripts (for Norwegian ILSs) in a GitHub repo, that's pointed to from the "public git repos" page on the wiki...
07:46 magnusenger i can't imagine norwegian companies suing anyone over that, though...
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 chris thd: yep, hence why i never have
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:47 thd ng.
07:48 magnusenger ng?
07:50 thd oops, I have had a keyboard bug for the past several months.
07:51 magnusenger looks like a "next generation"-bug? ;-)
07:52 thd magnusenger: Being Norwegian helped but not quite enough for Jon Johansen.
07:53 thd magnusenger: Fortunately, we are not adversaries of the big content industry.
07:54 magnusenger well, he was on trial, but found "not guilty" twice...
07:54 magnusenger true!
07:54 magnusenger should i remove the link?
07:54 thd magnusenger: Even being accused is no fun.
07:54 magnusenger thd: very true!
07:55 thd magnusenger: No, you should not be afraid to develop useful software.
07:55 thd magnusenger: The Koha community needs to seek legal advice about the issue to minimise risks.
07:56 magnusenger thd: sounds reasonable
07:56 magnusenger thd: i would imagine its mostly a US problem, though? What with everyone suing everyone over anything all the time... ;-)
07:57 thd Fortunately, there are very good lawyers who have funding to help free software projects.
07:59 magnusenger it's actually something libraries should be worrying about: what kind of access and ownership do they really have to their own data?
07:59 thd magnusenger: It is mostly a US problem but many want to have the long term Koha foundation based in the US because of the larger financial benefits which may be possible.
08:00 thd magnusenger: Do Norwegian ILS companies charge for accessing data from the old system when migrating?
08:00 chris civica used to, probably still do
08:00 hdl_laptop hi
08:00 chris hi hdl_laptop
08:01 thd hello hdl_laptop
08:01 magnusenger thd: it varies: my customer #1 had to pay for 3-4 hours of work to extract marc, loans, holdings and patrons. I know another library paid about USD 500 to get a script developed that would allow them to get their marc out at any time
08:02 thd magnusenger: Those are trivial sums compared to the sense I have of some charges to access data in the ILS.
08:02 magnusenger trouble is: libraries arn't migrating much... ;-)
08:03 magnusenger thd: yes, it's not much, but it should be free and the libraries should be able to get hold of whatever data they want at any time, without going through the vendor...
08:04 magnusenger thd: customer #1 had to wait for a couple months before the old vendor got round to extracting the data...
08:05 thd magnusenger: Do Norwegian libraries typically contract a maintenance agreement for a few years which locks them to a vendor during that period?
08:06 magnusenger thd: i don't have any stats on that, but i *think* it's mostly one year at a time
08:06 thd chris: is a multi-year maintenance contract part of the proprietary ILS model in NZ?
08:07 thd magnusenger: So the Norwegian ILS contract period may be similar to the typical French one year period.  The US period is usually 3-5 years.
08:08 magnusenger thd: wow, that makes things a lot harder!
08:08 chris thd: yes
08:08 chris its even worse here
08:09 chris because its a small market, far from anywhere except australia
08:09 chris so you pay your 3 years
08:09 thd magnusenger: The advantage in the US is that the market is much larger than elsewhere and more libraries spend large sums.
08:09 chris and there isnt even anyone in your country to do support
08:09 magnusenger chris: ouch!
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08:12 thd chris: They need free software migration code to show libraries everywhere how easy it is.
08:21 chris i dont mind the libraries doing that :)
08:21 chris i think its safer for the vendors not too tho
08:22 chris here the libraries have helped each other
08:22 chris you have to be fairly mental to sue a library
08:22 chris but going after a vendor, thats accepted behaviour
08:24 thd chris: That one reason why we need code assignment.
08:24 thd ... with a grant back of rights.
08:26 thd chris: Howevr, I suppose a largely library controlled Koha foundation would seem just like another vendor to some litigious companies which would never sue an individual library.
08:26 chris im not sure that will actually protect you
08:26 chris yes exactly
08:27 chris my position is that it is too dangerous to paint a target on ourselves
08:27 chris let something like kudos handle that
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08:28 thd chris: There is certainly something short of system X to Koha would be quite safe.
08:30 thd chris: High level Koha migration scripts which normalise data for Koha but are not specific to any proprietary system could be safely developed.
08:30 thd s/developed/developed in an open repository/
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08:58 hdl_laptop happy birthday kahu
08:58 chris not til the 20th :) but thanks
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09:46 reiko hello
09:47 Amit hello reiko
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10:05 Jpr Hi all, I'm looking for a bit of help with zebra... we recently changed (almost) all of our passwords on our server, and while nothing else has been adversely affected, Zebra indexing isn't working any longer
10:05 Jpr it seems as though zebra is still trying to access Mysql with the old password, but I can't for the life of me find a config file to change this
10:06 Jpr I say this b/c il koha-zebraqueue-output.log is giving an error of this sort:
10:07 Jpr DBI connect('dbname=kohadb;host=loc​alhost;port=3306','xxxxx',...) failed: Access denied for user 'xxxx'@'localhost' (using password: YES) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 666
10:10 reiko after migrating from koha 2.2.8 to koha 3.0, is there any way to migrate the parameters aswell ?
10:10 ftherese is there any way to add staff users?
10:10 ftherese or do they all log in with the admin account?
10:11 chris ftherese: a staff user is just a patron, but you assign them some privileges
10:11 ftherese aahhh good... ok thanks
10:12 chris yep, time to ressurect it[…]?searchterm=staff
10:12 chris hmm bad paste
10:12 chris[…]?searchterm=staff
10:12 chris i recommend the docs :)
10:14 magnusenger Jpr: the settings should be at the bottom of /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml on a normal install
10:22 Jpr yes, that's the strange thing, that koha-conf.xml has been updated with the new password and a login to mysql from the command line using the same username and pw from koha-conf.xml works just fine
10:24 ftherese hmmm I can't seem to add a patron
10:24 chris right bedtime for me
10:24 ftherese maybe I need to add a category of patrons frist?
10:25 magnusenger Jpr: hm, that is strange... and you tried stopping/starting zebra?
10:25 magnusenger g'night, chris!
10:26 Jpr yes, though perhaps I could try it again...
10:28 Jpr when, I try a manual rebuild of the zebra indexes I get the following error (if that helps at all...):
10:29 Jpr Can't locate C4/ in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/share/koha/bin/migrat​ion_tools/ line 5.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/bin/migrat​ion_tools/ line 5.
10:30 Jpr which is where the rebuild zebra script calls the context script
10:33 hdl_laptop export KOHA_CONF=/path/to/koha-conf.xml
10:34 hdl_laptop ftherese: yes you need a patron category to add a patron
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10:38 Jpr hdl_laptop: I just re-exported that variable, as per your suggestion, but it doesn't seem to have helped
10:40 hdl_laptop you also should have EXPORT PERL5LIB set to your koha source directory
10:43 Jpr that's already the case as well
10:44 hdl_laptop doesnot look it is set :
10:44 hdl_laptop @INC contains no path to koha sources ;)
10:44 munin hdl_laptop: Error: "INC" is not a valid command.
10:46 Jpr hdl_laptop: you're right, thanks, I'd done a printenv, and didn't think to have to re-export the variable; thanks again.
10:47 hdl_laptop no problems.
10:48 Jpr magnusenger: it seems like restarting zebra has gotten indexing humming along again; thanks for the suggestion
10:49 magnusenger Jpr: you're welcome!
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12:48 Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS | Next general IRC meeting will be held on 4 November 2009 at 10:00 UTC+0 | Time Converter:
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12:55 chris_n g'morning #koha
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12:57 Nate good morning #koha !
13:00 reiko hello
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13:15 reiko has anyone migrated fro 2.2.* to 3.0 ?
13:22 hdl_laptop many of our customers did.
13:22 reiko i'm having so much troubles migrating
13:22 reiko many of the scripts don't seem to work
13:22 hdl_laptop (they all use UNIMARC)
13:23 reiko yes, that makes it easier
13:24 hdl_laptop well we assisted them.
13:25 hdl_laptop and it still is quite heavy
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13:31 chris_n howdy owen
13:31 ftherese Hello
13:31 owen Hi
13:32 ftherese I just created a staff user and I can't log in with the account and password that I created for him
13:32 ftherese it is the first Patron that I have created
13:32 ftherese also... the library doesn't remain set when I log out of kohaadmin
13:33 ftherese what is the problem?
13:33 chris_n ftherese: kohaadmin is technically the db user and does not have a "proper" koha account and so that setting is not retained for that user
13:34 chris_n ftherese: did you set the proper permissions for the user account you created?
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13:36 ftherese I created a library
13:36 ftherese then I created a patron type of staff
13:36 chris_n ftherese: see[…]atron-permissions
13:36 ftherese then I created a new patron
13:41 * owen is happy to see that work might be done on Bug 1611
13:41 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1611 normal, P5, ---,, NEW, Intelligently redirect users after they have been asked to log into the Opac
13:43 ftherese @chris_n thank you!  That was it... permissions had to be set
13:43 munin ftherese: Error: "chris_n" is not a valid command.
13:43 ftherese well fine then
13:44 ftherese chris_n: thank you!  That was it... permissions had to be set
13:45 Colin joined #koha
13:45 chris_n ftherese: np, glad to help
13:46 * chris_n greets Colin
13:46 Colin Hi
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13:53 |Lupin| hello :)
14:04 hdl_laptop hi |Lupin|
14:05 |Lupin| hello hdl_laptop
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14:08 |Lupin| perl question please
14:08 |Lupin| my $uploaded_file_name = $input->param($file_field_name);
14:09 |Lupin| $uploaded_file_name is both a filename and a filehandle
14:09 |Lupin| so for instance if it is passed as a parameter to a template for being displayed, the result is odd because there is first the file handle which is displayed, like fh0001 and then the name
14:10 rhcl_out is now known as rhcl
14:10 |Lupin| the only way I've come up with so far to have a correct display is to pass '' . $uploaded_file_name to my template
14:10 |Lupin| but I don't find this very satisfactory and I'm wondering whether there is a cleaner way to do this
14:11 |Lupin| (I can imagine very well a maintainance programmer seeing this '' . $foo and simplifying it to $foo because he/she finds the '' . useless...
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14:20 Colin Lupin: uploaded_file_name is a reference? To an array?
14:25 |Lupin| Colin: no no
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14:27 Colin OK It can be the filename or the opened filehandle
14:28 |Lupin| Colin: it's a scalar, but depending on the context it can be interpreted as a handle, for instance you can write <$uploaded_file_name>
14:28 |Lupin| Colin: yeah exactly
14:29 |Lupin| Colin: and my quesiton is: is there a way to use it in a non-ambiguous way in those contexts whichh Perl can't de-ambiguate...
14:31 Colin Lupin: I think there is.. I think I used it once... I'll check
14:31 |Lupin| Colin: thanks a lot
14:32 |Lupin| Colin: fo the moment the only whay I have found is to concatenate an empty string, but IMO it's not very clean and someone may remove it thinking it's useless
14:32 |Lupin| Colin: do you think the scalar function would be a good candidate ?
14:33 Colin Lupin: I was thinking ref
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14:35 |Lupin| Colin: like putting a ref and removing it immediately ? I'm not sure I understand wy that would work...
14:35 |Lupin| hi gmcharlt
14:36 gmcharlt hi |Lupin|
14:36 |Lupin| gmcharlt: would you have 1 minute for a Perl quesiton, pls ?
14:36 gmcharlt what's the question
14:36 |Lupin| gmcharlt: my $uploaded_file_name = $input->param($file_field_name);
14:36 Colin Lupin ref returns what your variable is
14:36 |Lupin| gmcharlt: this gives back an object which is both a file name and a handle to the opened file
14:37 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I'm wondering how to tell Perl to interprete it as a string i
14:37 |Lupin| gmcharlt: oops
14:37 |Lupin| gmcharlt: if you give that to a parameter to a template, it's displayed wrongly because Perl prints the file handle and then the name
14:38 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I can get a correct display (only the name) if I give as a parameter to the template the expession '' . $uploaded_file_name because here Perl knows from the context that one is refering to the name rather than to the handle
14:39 |Lupin| gmcharlt: but I find this ugly and would like to find a more readable way
14:39 |Lupin| gmcharlt: does the question make sense ?
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14:41 gmcharlt |Lupin|: '' . $foo + a comment works
14:42 reiko hello
14:42 |Lupin| gmcharlt: ok... I hoped I could find something more elegant but perhaps elegance is not something one should be too picky about when programming in Perl..
14:43 |Lupin| hi reiko
14:43 reiko hi |Lupin|, i'm having problems with my koha migration
14:43 reiko can i ask some questions ?
14:44 Colin Lupin: Its the ugly side of DWIM
14:45 |Lupin| reiko: just ask your questions, don't ask if you can ask... :)
14:45 |Lupin| Colin: perhaps... I feel more comfortable with more strict languages...
14:46 Colin Lupin We all do on occasions
14:47 |Lupin| Colin: well for me it's not _on occasions_ ! :)
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14:47 reiko i'm having trouble running some of the scripts in the migration tutorial: gives me an error and i think that keeps me from having authorities in koha
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14:48 reiko i see that many of koha migration scripts are for UNIMARC, and i guess that script is too, is there anyway to migrate my authorities that are MARC21 from koha 2.2.8 to koha 3.0 ?
14:49 |Lupin| reiko: I have no idea, I'm sorry
14:50 |Lupin| reiko: I think if you don't get any useful reply here, jsut send an e-mail to the Koha mailing list, it has a rather large audience and I would be very surprised if you get no valuable help from there
14:52 reiko okay, thank you |Lupin|
14:56 |Lupin| reiko: np :) didn't do much, unfortunately
15:00 kf there is a mail on german mailing list asking about koha on windoes
15:00 reiko |Lupin| what flavour do you use, MARC21?
15:01 kf I think 2.2.9 was last version working on windows?
15:03 paul_p kf: right. noone could install 3.0 on windows (some perl dependancies)
15:03 paul_p the right solution with win is to have a VM with linux/koha
15:06 kf paul_p: thx  :)
15:06 chris_n kf: we're very close with the latest Strawberry release
15:07 chris_n we need to have gdbm compile on win32 now
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15:07 chris_n kf: I'm working on it in my spare (what's that?) time... :-)
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15:09 owen Good to keep in mind:[…]ews/2006/02/70179
15:10 jwagner owen, as jdavidb likes to say, You Mean They Didn't Purchase the Psychic Module????
15:11 * jdavidb wants to develop a Psychic Module for koha, but the underlying technology is not under the GPL...
15:15 jdavidb If I got it working, you could just bill deadbeat borrowers for lost items at the moment of checkout.  That's V1.  I regard the ability to predict what goofiness the library director or board will come up with next as technically unlikely.
15:15 jwagner But it's NOT unlikely that there WILL be goofiness!
15:15 jdavidb absolutely.  That's a certainty.  Management Training, you know.
15:16 paul_p hello "j" ( I mean jdavidb, jwagner )
15:16 paul_p is now known as jpaul_p
15:16 jdavidb Hi, jpaul_p! :D
15:16 jpaul_p new rule: your nick must start by j if you want to write on this channel :D
15:16 jwagner I went through all the study and training to get my Project Management Professional certification.  Once I had it, I happened to go back and re-read some Dilbert collections.  It was hilarious how much of it was almost word for word from some of the training materials.
15:17 jwagner jpaul_p, that sounds like a very GOOD rule!
15:19 chris_n2 left #koha
15:20 |Lupin| is now known as j|Lupin|
15:20 * jdavidb cackles with laughter.
15:21 * j|Lupin| dicts for cackle and realises it's close to the french caqueter
15:22 * jdavidb dicts for caqueter, and sees that j|Lupin| is right.
15:23 j|Lupin| cackle seems more... mignon to me than caqueter, though, the l has something more close to what it is talking about...
15:24 jdavidb What is distressing is that I'm already being silly and laughing hysterically this early in the week.  Normally, takes longer before I get goofy.
15:24 jwagner I was just telling jdavidb, this level of silliness so early in the week does not bode well for the remainder of the week....
15:25 jdavidb Should make for an entertaining meeting tomorrow
15:31 chris_n quick git question: how do I create a branch off of my current working branch? git checkout -b test_branch current_branch
15:31 kf chris_n: would you recommend installing koha on windows? will it be supported in the same way than the linux version? can yuo get bugfixes from git etc? perhaps I should just redirect his windows question to koha mailing list hm
15:32 chris_n kf: the goal is to be able to work off of the same codebase
15:32 chris_n kf: afaik there is not a win32 port of git
15:32 chris_n kf: but otherwise it would work the same
15:33 chris_n kf: just a reminder, though, we're not there quite yet, but very close
15:34 * chris_n never recommends windows for anything in reality... but that may just be a personal bias... ;-)
15:34 chris_n although if you remove windows, you can get rid of a bunch of stale air
15:36 kf chris_n: thx :)
15:37 nengard joined #koha
15:37 chris_n hi nengard!
15:37 nengard hiya!
15:38 jdavidb Hi, nengard.
15:41 jwagner I have some questions for sites set up as consortia -- no crossover in cataloging, patrons, circ, etc.  It looks like some sysprefs only allow one entry, meaning not all libraries in the system can use them.  Is this correct?
15:42 jwagner For example, AnonSuggestions (only one dummy patron ID, which would be tied to one library), MARC subfield for call number, MARC Org Code.
15:42 jwagner How do consortia setups handle these?
15:42 jdavidb Cage matches, I think, Jane.
15:43 jwagner Entertaining idea, but not quite what I was looking for :-(
15:53 nengard LOL
15:55 brendan joined #koha
15:56 wizzyrea this is the kind of stuff that we thought was going to be part of sysgroups
15:56 wizzyrea where every branch had a set of these prefs
15:56 wizzyrea don't think it's going to make it into 3.2 though, the dev was abandoned
15:59 jwagner wizzyrea, so my suspicion that there's no way to share these at present is correct?
16:00 nengard wizzyrea - development abandoned?  I thought this was something NEKLS wanted/sponsored - was I wrong?
16:03 jwagner Unrelated topic/question -- what's the syntax for having munin tell someone something later?
16:04 brendan jwagner it's @later
16:04 nengard ooo - I didn't know you could do that :)
16:04 nengard is there a list of syntax for munin in general?
16:04 jwagner brendan, @later followed by the person's handle, then the message?
16:05 brendan yes so --- @later tell nengard - good morning
16:05 jwagner OK, thanks.  I'll give it a try here.
16:05 brendan @later nengard good moring
16:05 munin brendan: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "nengard" in it.  Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
16:06 jpaul_p wizzyrea / jwagner = we have something about this (branch level syspref) sponsored by Lyon 3 (for 3.4)
16:06 nengard hmmm
16:06 jwagner @list Later
16:06 munin jwagner: notes and tell
16:06 brendan @later tell
16:06 munin brendan: (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
16:06 nengard @later tell jwagner hi there - testing later :)
16:06 munin nengard: The operation succeeded.
16:06 nengard woo hoo - it worked
16:07 jwagner jpaul_p, your development is a ways off, then?  Not going to be in 3.2?
16:07 jpaul_p jwagner: yep
16:07 jwagner OK, somthing to look forward to, then.  Thanks.
16:07 owen I wonder if it works in reverse?
16:07 owen @before tell owen not to order the crab
16:07 munin owen: Error: "before" is not a valid command.
16:08 jpaul_p is now known as paul_p
16:08 owen Dang. munin is not paradox-tolerant.
16:08 jwagner @later tell pianohacker Since you're working on sysprefs interface etc., see Bug 3755 -- possible to include?
16:08 munin jwagner: The operation succeeded.
16:08 schuster OK new question - when I print slip or print page in Circ - the Overdue item doesn't show up???
16:08 jwagner owen, reference earlier discussion -- munin apparently doesn't include the Psychic Module either.
16:09 owen Nor a telekinetic one. He never brings me coffee.
16:10 schuster hmmm doesn't do it for all but I have a patron it isn't printing for...???
16:10 jwagner schuster, it does print overdues OK for other people?
16:12 schuster never mind it was on the third page only thing to print!  ahhh...
16:12 schuster goes screaming from the room...
16:12 jwagner I _TOLD_ you it was going to be a bad week.....
16:13 brendan left #koha
16:19 Ropuch jwagner: so true
16:19 Ropuch ;>
16:19 nengard does anyone have JS they use for this preference:    intranetuserjs     that they want to share with me for the manual/screenshots?
16:20 schuster I have a couple...  Let me see what I can find.
16:20 nengard same for  'opacuserjs'
16:20 nengard thanks schuster
16:21 nengard jwagner it should be a good week for me - my last home before 2 weeks in Europe - but I kind of agree with you - it's gonna be NUTS for me - and so - not a good week
16:22 schuster email with 2 for intranet.
16:23 wizzyrea nengard: we wanted it, we were told it was in development by someone else and that if we were just patient we would get it.
16:23 nengard ah :( that sucks :(
16:23 schuster Sorry none for opacuserjs - fyi owen gave me the two I have.
16:23 nengard and thanks schuster!!
16:23 wizzyrea we were never approached to put funds towards that project
16:24 wizzyrea (I suspect we would though)
16:24 Ropuch nengard: i should have opacuserjs,
16:24 schuster ropuch - what does yours do?
16:24 schuster wonders what he is missing for his users!
16:24 nengard awesome Ropuch - you can email it to
16:25 nengard schuster - and all - maybe we should put a page up on the wiki for custom JS - like we have for custom reports ....
16:25 schuster The two for intranet that I sent nengard - 1 changes the color at checkin or anyplace the faint orange screen would come up, the other put the self checkout link on the staff login screen.
16:25 nengard Ah - thanks :)
16:25 schuster nengard...  OOOOOh so smart...  Always helping the other users...
16:25 nengard schuster - always helping other users - yes - but also always thinking of ways to add to the documentation :) hehe
16:26 nengard schuster if you want I'll create the page and put your two JS up
16:27 Ropuch nengard: ow, I sent you email without any message - let's assume I'm saying: Hello, here's the screenshot" ;-)
16:27 nengard LOL
16:29 brendan joined #koha
16:30 chris_n hey brendan
16:30 Ropuch 90% of my opacuserjs is taken from owen's tutorial, there are some few my lines for decoding url though
16:30 Ropuch Hi chris_n
16:30 brendan morning chris_n
16:30 Ropuch Hello brendan
16:30 brendan hi Ropuch
16:31 j|Lupin| pls, anyone using a git daemon ?
16:31 j|Lupin| I'd like to know if those how do use runit or not...
16:31 chris_n howdy Ropuch
16:31 j|Lupin| is now known as |Lupin|
16:35 jwagner Speaking of jquery, does anyone know how to use it to turn off one button/link in the list that appears at the top of the staff search results page?  Specifically the Place Holds link?  I tried some variations, and succeeded in turning off all the links :-( but couldn't turn off just the one placeHolds() button.  See Bug 3093 for the problem I'm trying to work around.
16:35 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3093 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Enhance placing of holds in staff interface
16:38 hdl_laptop jwagner: look at (#id).toggle() it could be your best match
16:38 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: ?
16:38 gmcharlt hi hdl_laptop
16:39 hdl_laptop hi.
16:39 hdl_laptop I just wanted to say that you can pull from koha_biblibre/master
16:39 hdl_laptop Maybe you want a more formal git pull-request ?
16:40 hdl_laptop We fixed the database glitches we had.
16:41 Kivutar left #koha
16:42 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: news that you fixed the DB glitches is all I needed, thanks
16:42 hdl_laptop this will allow us to be more participative on koha-patches rather than pushing directly ;) and ensure that we can work over a common base.
16:46 laurenc1 left #koha
17:16 logbot_backup joined #koha
17:16 Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS | Next general IRC meeting will be held on 4 November 2009 at 10:00 UTC+0 | Time Converter:
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17:41 |Lupin| till later all, bye !
17:41 |Lupin| left #koha
17:41 chris_n by |Lupin|
17:41 chris_n wb pastebot
17:42 chris morning
17:43 owen chris: "Technically" morning, or really morning?
17:45 schuster OK question about ajax and 3.2 - so is this integrated?[…]e_staff_interface
17:45 brendan morning chris
17:45 schuster Sorry still just trying to figure out what is REALLY in 3.2... - morning chris...  passing you coffee...
17:46 owen schuster: Not in 3.2
17:47 schuster Owen - you are really putting a downer on my day...
17:47 schuster :(
17:47 chris_n hi chris
17:47 owen :) Just the messenger!
17:47 owen the "jpw" referenced on that page is pianohacker?
17:48 chris_n owen: he's one of the 'j' crowd :-)
17:49 schuster phwey.
17:49 owen schuster: Note that "Adding AJAX support" is another of chris's proposals for 3.4.
17:52 chris schuster: you and me both
17:52 schuster I was hopeful that it was "additional" ajax support...
17:52 chris anything promised by liblime is not in 3.2
17:52 chris thats my rule of thumb
17:53 * jdavidb applauds chris
17:53 chris and its usually right, sadly
17:53 chris_n yup
17:56 mason joined #koha
18:09 thd gmcharlt: are you there?
18:13 davi left #koha
18:13 davi joined #koha
18:17 thd schuster: Separating holdings management from the bibliographic record is a major need for Koha.
18:18 thd schuster: There are currently two separate threads in koha-devel referring to problems from not having better holdings management.
18:20 Ropuch Koha is too addicting: I've just wantd to make some screencast showing how acqusition and cataloguing works, spotted untraslated term and ended up with gtranslator
18:20 Ropuch An hour ago ;>
18:20 thd schuster: Do you try to manage all the school textbooks with Koha in you district?
18:23 thd s/you/your/
18:33 pianohacker joined #koha
18:36 pianohacker nengard: I've pushed fixes for bugs 3748, 3587, 3585, 3739 and 3721; will mark them patch-sent as soon as I get the others and submit a pull-request
18:36 nengard awesome pianohacker
18:36 nengard thanks :)
18:38 nengard i have finished the sys pref documentation as much as I can at this time
18:38 ftherese left #koha
18:38 nengard I'll go back and finish it once those patches are pushed
18:39 pianohacker cool
18:40 nengard okay  - i have asked this 100 times - this time i will document it
18:40 thd nengard: I made an agenda and a reminder announcement about the day before the last foundation forming meeting.  There is not yet an agenda or reminder announcement for tomorrow's general meeting.
18:40 nengard how do I switch between git branches?
18:41 nengard thd - i wasn't at the last one due to travel - and won't be at tomorrows due to the same thing ... I'm not sure where we are with everything, but I'm just the survey creator - someone else can take on the job of planner and secretary
18:41 pianohacker git checkout new_branch
18:41 nengard thanks pianohacker
18:41 nengard and how do i list branches? :)
18:42 thd nengard: I thought that you had all the jobs :)
18:42 nengard thd - there's only so much I can handle
18:42 thd :)
18:43 * thd is not even awake yet
18:43 nengard woo hoo - found it - git-branch
18:47 ftherese joined #koha
18:48 chris_n heya pianohacker
18:51 * chris_n wonders why anyone would want a mixture of barcode types in their catalog
18:53 thd chris_n: Is that an option?
18:54 chris_n it would appear so from Ed Roche's post, unfortunately
18:55 thd chris_n: It would be a very useful option if it allowed for tracking various types of RFID and optical barcodes.
18:56 thd chris_n: Having both RFID and optical barcodes for the same item is very useful for transition to RFID and backup for when the RFID system goes down.
18:58 chris_n thd: I think what happened to Ed is that somehow he switch from Code39 to Code39 Mod10 in the middle of cataloging
18:58 chris ok, time to catch my bus
18:58 chris_n and his barcode scanner is choking on it
18:58 chris_n but Code39 really should not need a checksum as it is self checking
18:59 chris_n thd: but the idea of multiple codes per item is a good one
18:59 chris_n one could print barcodes on labels with RFID chips inside them
19:00 pianohacker Hi, chris_n, thd
19:01 thd hello pianohacker
19:02 chris_n pianohacker: back to a full ten fingers now?
19:02 * chris_n notes all of pianohacker's bugfixes
19:03 thd chris_n: Most libraries want the cheapest solution even if it turns out not to be the most efficient.
19:03 |Lupin| joined #koha
19:03 pianohacker chris_n: yup!
19:03 |Lupin| hi again
19:03 pianohacker Hi, sebastien
19:04 |Lupin| hello Jesse !
19:04 nengard okay - need git help - I want to checkout a version of HEAD - but for some reason it keeps saying I can't because 'Entry  C4/ would be overwritten by merge'
19:04 |Lupin| pianohacker: how are the fingers going now that they are free ?
19:04 pianohacker |Lupin|: very nice, typin' like a demon
19:04 chris_n nengard: is that the entire message?
19:04 pianohacker nengard: Try a git status, it sounds like you have uncommitted local changes
19:05 nengard wierd - I do have modified files listed - all in the C4 directory
19:05 nengard but i didn't edit them - how can i overwrite my version with the official one
19:05 nengard without committing these files that I didn't change?
19:05 chris_n git reset --hard HEAD
19:05 nengard thanks chris_n
19:05 |Lupin| chris_n: be aware that you will lose your changes if you do that
19:06 chris_n nengard must be coding in her sleep... ;-)
19:06 |Lupin| nengard: if you want to save your changes somewhere and still have an official version, use git stash
19:06 chris_n |Lupin|: yes, I think nengard wants to
19:06 nengard chris_n I was working in the sys prefs branch for documentation purposes - and went to swtich back to the head branch and it woldn't let me -- not sure what happeend
19:06 nengard Lupin - I didn't make any changes! Nothing to save :)
19:07 |Lupin| pianohacker: re:your fingers... that's great. enjoy !
19:07 chris_n git weirdness happens from time to time... it keeps things interesting
19:11 |Lupin| chris_n: or annoying...
19:11 nengard anyone have anything to add to bug 3733 ? I'm wondering why PinesISBN is commented out
19:11 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3733 major, P5, ---,, RESOLVED WONTFIX, new sys prefs - Missing Pines ISBN sys pref from enhanced content
19:15 pianohacker Note that there should probably be a separate bug for PINESISBN not working; 3733 is just a wontfix because of the broken code :)
19:25 * chris_n just learned a very cool perl trick for making a substitution inside many files
19:25 chris_n perl -p -i -e "s/old/new" filename
19:26 |Lupin| chris_n: do you know sed's -i option that does in-place work ?
19:27 chris_n |Lupin| no, I missed that with sed
19:27 jdavidb left #koha
19:27 |Lupin| chris_n: it's a GNU extension but on nowadays systems I'd say it's common
19:27 chris_n |Lupin| so something like 'sed -i "s/old/new/" filename'
19:27 |Lupin| chris_n: exactly
19:28 |Lupin| chris_n: and with -e s/old1/new1/g -e s/old2/new2/g you can even substitute more things at once, shold you have to
19:29 chris_n nice
19:29 chris_n we need a page on the wiki for tricks like that
19:29 |Lupin| chris_n: yeah I find that useful
19:30 |Lupin| chris_n: not sure I agree... that's just Unix culture... imagine that for any project !? too much redundancy IMO
19:31 chris_n |Lupin|: interestingly enough, at my first look google turned up the perl solution, but not the in-place sed solution
19:32 pianohacker nengard: Is this a locally added script? Can't find it in current head
19:32 chris_n I actually looked to sed first, but then wandered off somehow missing the -i switch
19:32 pianohacker nengard: Ahh, nvm, I see
19:32 nengard pianohacker[…]torials:kohaascms
19:32 nengard k :)
19:33 pianohacker nengard: What if I just coded up a slightly cleaner replacement for that specific use-case?
19:33 pianohacker wouldn't be at all hard
19:33 nengard that works for me - and my purpose - don't know about other uses of it
19:34 |Lupin| chris_n: I guess perl is more fashioned, sed is old-style so it gets less gits in Google... :)
19:34 pianohacker nengard: I'll send a message to both mailing lists asking about uses, but I think the reasons I stated in the bug should apply to most other uses of "local use"
19:34 sekjal joined #koha
19:35 nengard awesome - thanks pianohacker
19:36 schuster pianohacker - question about ajax?  You were doing some work for LibLime?  did that every get completed as it isn't going to be in 3.2 from the sounds of it.
19:36 schuster[…]e_staff_interface
19:39 thd schuster: Do you try or hope to manage all the school textbooks in your district with Koha?
19:40 schuster I don't but someone else in our district does as they don't see an alternative that they like.
19:40 schuster With Koha being opensource - they like the possibilities...  It would also give those proprietary Textbook vendors a little shaking as well.
19:41 thd schuster: What might be the largest number of items for a single textbook?
19:42 Ropuch I'm about adding a posibility to add a call number while receiving an item from order: you can add barcode, localization etc, the book i shown in opac but you have to edit items only to add a call number
19:44 chris Ropuch: you should talk with the Biblibre people first, they have done an acquisitions rewrite, is in the process of being merged
19:44 thd Ropuch: that should all be an automated process in future as part of acquisitions with no manual editing required.
19:44 chris Ropuch: you don't want to duplicate work
19:44 nengard schuster - did you ever get an answer to your library groups email? I'm asking because I'm about to document groups - but haven't yet heard of a library using them successfully
19:44 Ropuch chris: right, I don't [;
19:45 pianohacker schuster: ajax work was finished on checkout and fines rules and circulation screens; patches were not integrated, would take some work to make them applyable again
19:45 pianohacker schuster: The backend code was submitted separately, and was used for the new sysprefs edito
19:45 chris pianohacker: there is no issue with us applying them to master (not tech issue politic/legal issue)
19:45 chris ?
19:45 pianohacker *editor
19:46 thd Ropuch: I suspect that you will find more flexibility in the BibLibre acquisitions rewrite but not the level of automation which you describe.
19:46 thd schuster: Are you still there?
19:46 pianohacker chris: not to my knowledge; the patches were made publicly available with galen's consent a while back and mentioned on the list
19:46 chris excellent
19:46 schuster Sorry had to step away.
19:46 pianohacker In fact, they're still up:
19:47 chris id be willing to help merge them into a branch based off master to make it easy to resubmit
19:47 gmcharlt chris++
19:47 schuster chris++
19:47 chris there was something we were going to work on together eh pianohacker ?
19:47 pianohacker chris++ # that'd be awesome
19:47 * chris emails himself a reminder
19:47 pianohacker chris: the memory leak triage, but this is good too :)
19:47 chris ahh cool :)
19:47 Ropuch thd: well, our call number consists of localization code and part of barcode - i think I can add some dirty hack to generate them automagicaly
19:48 thd gmcharlt: did you see my email message to you from a few minutes ago?
19:51 gmcharlt thd: thanks for the reminder - I'll send out an announcement presently
19:51 chris have i shown you guys this yet http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.[…]q=maori+battalion
19:51 thd gmcharlt: I have put up a tentative agenda now but you should fix it before the announcement.
19:52 schuster We had items in our other system with 1400 items attached.  we had to break that up into about 5 different records to get them out of the system and into Koha.
19:53 Ester joined #koha
19:53 schuster I'd have to talk with our textbook department as far as number of items for a particular subject. - considering we have 9000 students at our Senior Highs so about 4500 per grade - so I would suspect someplace around that per textbook.
19:54 Ester left #koha
19:54 thd schuster: Yes, those numbers really need separating holdings records from bibliographic records which is now not being shared by LibLime.
19:55 thd schuster: Creating separate bibliographic records as you had done is a workaround.
19:55 chris
19:55 chris making_things_worse--
19:56 pianohacker chris: kete integration?
19:56 chris pianohacker, well, not just kete
19:56 chris i have this
19:56 schuster right now we just sent out about 200 books and those to teachers.  It took about a minute per book to check out 1 item to a teacher.  not good.  That's why I was so excited about this development for 3.2
19:57 pianohacker schuster: textbooks, or ajaxcirc?
19:57 chris http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.[…]s=maori+battalion
19:57 thd schuster: The holdings in bibliographic records problem is part of a couple of threads on the koha-devel list currently and keeps recurring as an issue on the koha list.
19:57 chris and
19:57 chris http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.[…]+battalion&json=1
19:57 schuster pianohacker - ???  both!
19:57 pianohacker chris: ahh, very nice
19:57 chris which will search the source you specify in your syspref
19:57 chris next step, make a table to allow multiple external sources
19:58 chris and use that with pazpar2
19:58 pianohacker schuster: Note that ajaxcirc will only fix a small part of the problem; your lag would go from 1 minute to about 55 seconds
19:58 chris but for now, its a nice proof of concept
19:59 pianohacker Most of the problem (I think) is that Koha has to update the correct 952 tag in a _gigantic_ MARC record, which results in a lot of parsing and then saving lag
19:59 chris yep
19:59 cait joined #koha
19:59 chris thats on my todo list too, HDL has already done some prototypes for fixing that
20:00 thd schuster: chris' proposal for 3.4 should do much for the time issue in circulation.
20:00 pianohacker Making koha so the 952 tags are not actually saved in the record, but only generated on export or zebra indexing will probably be needed, but will be a... pain to say the least
20:00 chris_n I must say that LEK has a sort of cheesy looking interface as compared to FOSS Koha
20:00 pianohacker thd: which proposal is that?
20:00 sekjal and then there is bug 2453
20:00 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2453 critical, P3, ---,, NEW, (very) large biblio/item handling
20:00 sekjal our titles with more than 900 attached items are unsearchable
20:01 thd pianohacker: chris' proposal for 3.4 release manager.
20:01 * chris is secretly hoping someone takes my proposal incorporates it all, adds some and volunteers too
20:01 chris :)
20:01 CGI284 joined #koha
20:01 CGI284 s
20:02 pianohacker chris_n: I think that the academic OPAC would probably be the height of beauty to many in that space
20:02 pianohacker based on all the other academic OPACs I've seen
20:02 pianohacker that people paid actual money for
20:03 cait hi all :)
20:04 CGI284 anyway to hop servers
20:04 chris hiya cait
20:04 CGI284 left #koha
20:05 thd sekjal schuster: Separating the bibliographic record from holdings records is a much larger problem than improving circulation efficiency by breaking the need to update items in the MARC record in real time.
20:06 chris if someone wants to rfc that, adn work on it for 3.4 that would be awesome, its not gonna be on my radar though
20:06 thd sekjal schuster: Separating real time circulation updates from the MARC record is a necessary first step.
20:06 chris i mainly want 3.4 to clean stuff up, so that doing something like that is actually achievable
20:06 cait hi chris
20:06 pianohacker thd: but could you do the two separately? a lot of koha depends on 1<->1 correspondence between the items table and 952 tags
20:07 thd pianohacker: chris is referring to separating that dependency.
20:07 pianohacker you could remove things like onloan and issues from the items table, but then you run into problems with searching for checked out items
20:07 sekjal thd: we could completely refactor Koha to run on a Native XML Database, so we'd only need to update the MARC data in one place
20:08 pianohacker let me find this and actually read it
20:08 thd sekjal: Zebra is a native XML database.
20:09 nengard schuster - did you ever get an answer to your library groups email? I'm asking because I'm about to document groups - but haven't yet heard of a library using them successfully
20:09 pianohacker yes, used for the one part where XML offers advantages
20:09 nengard or anyone - i don't see how search groups are supposed to work ...
20:10 sekjal thd:  huh.  I hadn't thought about it like that... but I suppose I can see it.
20:10 thd pianohacker: we need some correspondence between the items table and MARC but not for everything in the items table.
20:10 pianohacker nengard: search groups _should_ actually be working; you add various libraries to a named search domain, and then you can search for books from libraries in that domain from (I believe) the advanced search page
20:10 |Lupin| nengard: btw, wanted to say thank you for your suggestion of the other day on the Koha list (SOPAC). Actually I think it's moe than I need but I didn't know about it and it was a good opportnity to learn, so thanks !
20:10 sekjal thd: it never came up when I was doing my research on NXDs in school, but that could just be my fault
20:11 nengard pianohacker - i'm only seeing it in the staff client - not on the OPAC - is this cause of me? my install? or what?
20:11 thd sekjal: Tümer Garip's solution uses an XML metarecord with XPath indexing in Zebra.
20:11 pianohacker nengard: It might only be working in the staff client, I haven't investigated it thoroughly
20:11 nengard Lupin glad to help - and if you don't need SOPAC then you can look at the tutorials on the wiki:[…]:creatingcmspages
20:14 pianohacker thd: partial mapping, in other words? what would you omit?
20:17 |Lupin| nengard: ahah ! that seems even more helpful !!! thanks !!
20:17 nengard :)
20:17 nengard always ask the doc manager for documentation and tips :) hehe
20:18 pianohacker chris: what sort of time commitment do you see for the bug wrangler position? I could maybe handle that
20:18 chris im thinking not more than 3 or 4 hours
20:18 |Lupin| nengard: I'll keep that in mind and hope you won't get exhausted with me asking questions
20:19 chris mostly its pestering people to close bugs, or add more info etc
20:19 nengard uh oh - what did I do :) hehe
20:19 pianohacker chris: excellent, I'll write a proposal and throw my name in the hat
20:19 |Lupin| nengard: :-))))))
20:20 owen pianohacker: And then throw that hat in the ring.
20:20 pianohacker And then throw the ring in the arena
20:20 pianohacker etc etc
20:20 pianohacker hi, owen
20:21 thd pianohacker: I would omit real time circulation columns and mere circulation statistics from needing to be stored in the MARC record.
20:22 cait pianohacker: I think I have not enough time to be a good bug wrangler - but perhaps I can help out looking at old bugs or something
20:22 |Lupin| nengard: hmm... I'm not gonna tell you what my last name means in english, you know that already, don't you ? :)
20:22 chris pianohacker: yay!!
20:22 nengard no ... i didn't ...
20:23 nengard woo hoo pianohacker
20:23 pianohacker thd: very good idea, but how do you deal with zebra (showing whether items are checked out)
20:23 pianohacker pestering _other_ people will be a wonderful break from studying, say, history
20:23 nengard hey - i have a feature request - i'm going to put it in - but want to get some feedback
20:23 nengard i'd love to see the currency and exchange rates automated
20:24 jwagner thd, question for you.  I think I remember hearing that you did the development work on the frameworks, correct?  The 040 subfield c is marked as required, and asks for the MARC Organization Code.  The MARCOrgCode syspref exists, and appears to be used to fill in the 040c.  Is that syspref used anywhere else, and does the 040c really have to be mandatory?
20:24 nengard I found some APIs that might be helpful in this
20:24 nengard[…]urrency&sort=date
20:24 thd pianohacker: I would have just one subfield for available or not updated in a batch job, not real time.
20:25 pianohacker thd: k
20:25 thd jwagner: The mandatory settings which I used were from the minimal level requirements from the MARC 21 standard.
20:26 pianohacker nengard: If one of those has a good terms of use that would allow shipping it completely set up, that'd be nice
20:26 nengard not sure - would have to read through them all
20:26 thd jwagner: The problem is that the field is not populated except by first entering the field in the record editor.
20:26 pianohacker nengard: If the end-user had to set it up manually, that'd still be useful but not as much so
20:26 nengard it's just that exchange rates change hourly and so your acq may not have accurate accounting without pulling it in real time
20:27 thd jwagner: We need to have the field populated without manually entering the field in the record editor.
20:27 thd jwagner: The record editor needs to be completely rewritten on an entirely new model.
20:28 jwagner thd, grepping through the code, it seems to want to use the syspref for the 003, the 040c, and something to do with Authorities.  I'm working with a site that will be a consortial setup -- different org codes per site, and I don't think the syspref can handle that.  So my options seem to be leaving it blank (or filling in only one of the sites' codes) and/or making the 003/040c not mandatory.
20:29 pianohacker nengard: right. You'd probably want a cron job, but it'd be something used more like rebuild_zebra
20:29 thd jwagner: Meanwhile, disabling some required fields may be a good workaround.
20:29 pianohacker jwagner: those are your options at the moment, yes
20:29 pianohacker jwagner: that would be an excellent field to put on the branches table
20:31 jwagner pianohacker, you weren't online earlier where I asked about this one & a couple of other fields that may need different settings for different libraries --  AnonSuggestions (only one dummy patron ID, which would be tied to one library), MARC subfield for call number, MARC Org Code.  There maay be other settings that would need breaking out for a true consortial setup.
20:31 thd jwagner: Yes, I suggest leaving it blank unless you want to rewrite the Perl script for filling the value and add more sophistication to the system preferences.
20:32 jwagner thd, thanks.  I figured that was going to be the case, but wanted to check.
20:32 pianohacker jwagner: MARC subfield for call number? having that different across multiple libraries in the same koha db sounds... problematic
20:33 jwagner It may not really be an issue, but suppose one library uses LC, and one uses Dewey.  Does the syspref allow you to fill in both, and only apply the one that's right for your library?
20:33 thd jwagner: I favour investing hugely in rewriting the record editor maybe by building on top of code from the Biblios record editor.
20:33 jwagner thd, I have a HUGE wishlist for redoing the MARC editing/general handling.....
20:34 thd jwagner: The design of the internal Koha record editor has some of the best features in Koha but limitations of the design make it ultimately unfixable.
20:34 jwagner That's the problem :-(
20:35 thd jwagner: We have an opportunity to leap over every other system if we rewrite with an RDA based model at the core.
20:36 thd jwagner: No other ILS will contemplate that leap for years.
20:37 sekjal thd: agreed
20:37 thd jwagner: We could make such a leap perhaps together with Evergreen because record editing is so weak in both systems that a complete rewrite is needed.
20:38 thd jwagner sekjal: RDA will have an extensible XML schema.  There was a preview shown at the ALA conference.
20:39 thd MARC could be merely an export and import format for communicating with other systems.
20:39 jwagner Sounds like a possibility.  I'm not familiar enough with the code issues to know what's possible/desirable, but I know a lot of things I want as a staff user.  Things like being able to run a report to list all the 856, or 111, or whatever fields in the catalog.  That's been a big need for every cataloger I've ever worked with.
20:40 thd jwagner: You could do that with a special purpose Perl script.
20:41 jwagner But you shouldn't need to -- it should be a basic functionality in Reports.  Staff should be able to say, I need to see all the XXX fields, or all that match a search string, and run a report to spit them out.
20:41 chris while we are there, make sure you can catalogue in DC too
20:41 * owen sometimes misses the ability in 2.x to search a specific MARC field...but wouldn't give up Zebra to get it back
20:41 jwagner Yes, at least adding a framework for Dublin Core.
20:42 thd chris: If cataloguing would be based on XML then cataloguing in any semantics should be easy.
20:42 jwagner owen, that's another need.  Maybe I spent too long working with Unicorn, but I really miss the MARC handling tools.
20:42 pianohacker owen: I don't think you can do that through zebra very well, no
20:43 chris thd: then you have my vote
20:43 pianohacker just because of the way searches are communicated over z39.50
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20:45 thd jwagner: The Koha reports tool is designed for reporting SQL data at the granularity of the SQL columns.  MARC is merely a BLOB in those columns and thus is not accessible to the Koha reports tool.
20:45 chris hey ian, hows kapiti today?
20:45 ian windy...bleak...
20:45 chris yeah its not that nice down here either
20:45 thd chris: the RDA schema will be in part based on work for the DCMI.
20:46 ian is anyone else having Skype problems?
20:46 ian just continual hang for me
20:47 ftherese hello...
20:47 ftherese I don't have any experience with marc tags
20:48 ftherese and I need to import my library using marc tags
20:48 pianohacker ian: I seem to be seeing the same things
20:48 ftherese I am using MarcEdit
20:48 ftherese and the delimited text translator
20:49 nengard okay 4 manual updates submitted today:[…]ohadocs;a=summary
20:49 nengard more tomorrow night
20:49 chris nengard++
20:49 ftherese I am assuming that I should map the fields to a three digit number... is there anything I need to know... does it matter if I put the wrong information in a tag?
20:49 nengard done for today :) may be back again later
20:49 nengard left #koha
20:50 thd jwagner: We would need a special purpose MARC reporting tool or would need to add a MARC reporting tool to fulfil the need you have identified for reports about MARC data..
20:50 ftherese for instance... what is the difference between "Control Number" and "Control Number Identifier"
20:50 |Lupin| good day/night all, bye !
20:50 jwagner thd, I know the reports work off SQL, but getting to the MARC data is a real need.  Something to think about.  But not today....I'm going home......
20:51 pianohacker bye, sebastien, jwagner
20:51 |Lupin| bye all !
20:51 cait control number is the number and identifier is the source I thinkj
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20:51 pianohacker ftherese: see[…]hic/examples.html for some examples
20:52 cait =001  00002211X
20:52 cait =003  DE-576
20:52 pianohacker ftherese: It's usually only something you would have if your records come from some central source, like OCLC
20:52 ian pianohacker: ta
20:54 thd ftherese: see .
20:54 ftherese I am looking at that
20:54 ftherese still wondering what to do about 001 and 003
20:54 thd ftherese: MARC standards are designed for sharing and exchanging records populated according to a common standard.
20:55 ftherese ok
20:56 thd ftherese: You could use MARC any way you like in your own system but then you loose the benefit of sharing and receiving records from others.
20:56 pianohacker ftherese: you shouldn't have to create those fields, for your use case
20:56 thd ftherese: We presume that you are using MARC 21.
20:57 thd pianohacker: the frameworks require those fields according to the MARC 21 standard by default when using the internal record editor.
20:58 pianohacker Hmm. I remember making them mandatory in every installation I've done
20:58 * pianohacker wonders why they're mandatory
20:59 thd ftherese: You could adjust the Koha MARC bibliographic frameworks to remove the requirement that the subfields are required.
20:59 thd pianohacker: they are mandatory because otherwise you would not have a consistent means of tracking records acquired from another system.
21:00 pianohacker thd: Wouldn't those normally be imported through z39.50?
21:00 pianohacker Most records that don't have them to start with probably never will
21:00 ftherese ok... here is my plan... I want to put my entries in, and I would like to also be able to import new entries off the z39 server
21:00 thd pianohacker: Most records should have them.
21:01 ftherese do I need to include a 001 or 003 number in my imported file?
21:01 pianohacker thd: even original cataloging?
21:01 pianohacker ftherese: I don't believe so
21:02 pianohacker thd: my question is, when would you need to add a control number through the marc editor?
21:02 thd pianohacker: Systems which do the correct things with the data populate 035 with the former 001 003 values for records originating from an external system.
21:03 ftherese so... if I just find the corresponding marc field numbers for my own records, will I still be able to import z39 server info?
21:03 ftherese not into the old records
21:03 ftherese but as new records
21:03 thd pianohacker: In Koha the internal control number is in 999 by default.
21:03 thd ... for MARC 21.
21:04 pianohacker thd: So Koha should be moving 001/003 to 035 and saving the biblionumber in 001 (possibly only if an 003 value has been configured)? again, only for marc21
21:05 ftherese another question... I will first import my card catalog
21:05 thd pianohacker: The problem for lack of use of 001 as an internal control number is the legacy of the rushed work to MARC Koha a few years ago.
21:05 ftherese then I will import my actual book items
21:05 ftherese how do I link the two?
21:06 ftherese they are already linked by a bibID number
21:06 ftherese would I just make a marc field equavalent to my local bibID number?
21:06 thd pianohacker: I think that LibLime customers have all been recently using 001 for the biblionumber.
21:07 pianohacker ftherese: technically, the best way is to add the items to the record in the form of Koha's 952 holdings tags
21:07 pianohacker thd: interesting
21:07 thd pianohacker: The trouble is that Z39.50 import does not move 001 and 003 into 035 as it should.
21:07 pianohacker thd: What would you put into 003?
21:08 thd 003 is for the library organisation code.
21:08 pianohacker thd: same list as MARCOrgCode?
21:08 thd Anyone can obtain one from filling out a form at the LC website if you do not have one already.
21:09 pianohacker hmm, why would you have the separate 040 field then?
21:10 thd 040 is for tracking who contributed to changing the record, not for what system it resides on.
21:10 ftherese so if I populate 952 with the BibID number - which connects all the items with their card - will that do the trick?
21:11 pianohacker ftherese: No; 952 tags hold the actual item information (barcode, location, price, etc)
21:11 ian left #koha
21:11 thd ftherese: Internal numbering is generated automatically.
21:11 ftherese so... where should I put the mapping number that relates items to their card
21:12 ftherese but I have two separate databases
21:12 ftherese one is full of the information
21:12 thd ftherese: Where do you have it already in your records?
21:12 ftherese the other is full of items... whose information is included in the first
21:12 thd ftherese: Do you have MARC records in your previous system?
21:13 ftherese no... I am moving from a homemade filemaker database
21:13 ftherese which is actually several databases
21:13 ftherese one for authors, one for books, one for catalog information, one for call numbers, one for patrons, etc.
21:14 ftherese they are all connected by the almighty BibID number
21:14 thd ftherese: What most databases systems identify as tables are identified as separate databases in Filemaker.
21:14 ftherese right... because in later versions of filemaker, they actually have tables
21:15 ftherese but ours was written with fileMaker 4
21:15 ftherese so what do I do with the marc translation?
21:16 thd ftherese: marc translation?
21:16 thd ftherese: what do you mean by "marc translation"?
21:16 ftherese how do I tag my records... coming from different databases... in such a way that they remain connected?
21:17 Jo joined #koha
21:17 ftherese different "tables" if you will
21:17 ftherese that are connected by a common number
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21:19 thd So for every item you should have a separate 952 field in MARC.  You do not need to populate the Koha itemnumber, biblioitemnumber, or biblionumber because those are all autogenerated.
21:21 ftherese sorry, I am very new at this... right now I have been following  the instructions at[…]ha_using_marcedit
21:21 thd ftherese: You would only need to preserve your old system numbering if preserving that would be important to you.
21:22 ftherese the old numbering is important because we have multiple copies of the same book that are all referenced in the catalog
21:22 owen left #koha
21:22 thd ftherese: That page is very incomplete.
21:22 ftherese all our book items "hang" on the card catalog
21:22 ftherese via a number
21:23 ftherese sometimes there are several book items hanging on the same card
21:23 thd ftherese: What do you mean by hang?
21:23 thd ftherese: How do you identify your books on the shelf?
21:24 ftherese every book has a call number and an id number
21:24 ftherese printed on it
21:25 ftherese within the computer record for that individual book -
21:25 ftherese there is ANOTHER number, and that number refers to the information card in the "virtual card catalog"
21:26 thd ftherese: You should put your call numbers in the appropriate place in 952 and maybe put the old ID number in a notes field in 952 merely to preserve it.
21:26 ftherese that way... many copies of the same book have one information sheet
21:27 nicomo left #koha
21:27 ftherese which old id number... ?
21:28 ftherese I am really sorry, I wish I could be more clear
21:28 thd ftherese: The number for the bibliographic record as a whole could go in 001 although the MARC 21 frameworks do not.use 001 to track by default.
21:29 ftherese how do I connect the individual books with their bibliographic record?
21:29 thd ftherese: The Koha MARC frameworks are adjustable but it may be the indexing which is more important to you and you can adjust the indexing to index any fields you need..
21:30 * chris_n hands pianohacker a lariat :-)
21:32 ftherese well... what I am going to do is just try something and see what happens
21:39 ftherese man... ok "marc fields greater than 10 must define a subfield code" what does that mean?
21:44 thd ftherese: The control fields 000-008 have no subfields in the MARC standard.
21:45 ftherese I don't know how to define a subfield... I don't even know what that means within the context of a marc translator
21:46 thd ftherese: The design of Koha presumes that even fields 000-009 secretly have subfield.
21:47 thd ftherese: A subfield designated by the symbol @ is used to represent the data in the control fields.
21:48 thd ftherese: A subfield is merely what the name implies, a field which is a subsidiary part of another field.
21:49 thd ftherese: Fields in MARC are usually designated by a 3 digit number.
21:49 pianohacker ftherese: the 000-009 fields have only one piece of information attached; 010 and up have multiple pieces of information, stored in subfields
21:50 pianohacker ftherese: the 245 tag, for example, usually has an a and c subfield
21:50 thd ftherese: Subfields are usually designated by a one digit number or the letters of the English language.
21:51 thd ftherese: tag is a common synonym for field in Koha jargon at least.
21:56 ftherese ok.... I am trying to process that
22:00 pianohacker ftherese: MARC is a truly nasty data format to learn and use :/
22:01 thd ftherese: In SGML, HTML, and XML there are entities  (tags) and attributes for various aspects of the entities.  The relation between fields and subfields in MARC is similar to that between entities and attributes in HTML.
22:02 ftherese alright... one of the things I need to include for koha - apparently - is the type of item (i.e. "book") what marc number does that fall under?
22:02 thd pianohacker: fear not, we can fix all that with RDA quite soon.
22:02 ftherese ok.. the HTML reference makes sense... thank you
22:03 pianohacker thd: bleh, pardon me for being a bit skeptical
22:03 pianohacker thd: also, thank you, html is a good analogy :)
22:03 thd pianohacker: we will need translations forever though
22:04 thd s/translations/import and export mappings/
22:04 pianohacker right
22:04 * pianohacker is pondering a possible user-friendly migration tool, for some far-off, imaginary date when he has free time
22:05 ftherese alright... one of the things I need to include for koha - apparently - is the type of item (i.e. "book") what marc number does that fall under?
22:06 sekjal ftherese: 952
22:06 sekjal subfield y
22:07 ftherese thank you
22:07 hdl_laptop pianohacker: have you solved the translation problem for your system preferences and yaml  ?
22:07 thd ftherese: look also at the table of dependencies in[…]hic/bdleader.html
22:08 sekjal ftherese: the value of this 952$y subfield must match the Item Types you've configured in Koha
22:08 pianohacker hdl_laptop: ahh, yes, I think I have found a solution
22:08 pianohacker simply prefix every string in the YAML file that needs to be translated with _
22:08 ftherese :/
22:08 thd ftherese: The leader is control field 000 and starts its position numbering at position 00 as the first position.
22:08 pianohacker Administration: becomes _Administration:
22:09 hdl_laptop _my string that needs translation ?
22:09 pianohacker hdl_laptop: still requires dealing with, but is easier
22:09 pianohacker hdl_laptop: yup
22:09 sekjal ftherese: you can create your Item Types, which are used to determine item loan rules, under Administration -> Item Types
22:10 hdl_laptop imho, we should not use but rather use gettext and msgmerge.
22:10 ftherese Once I've imported the data... is it stuck the way I imported it? or can I change it?
22:10 hdl_laptop And then do a shell script that would rule them all
22:11 sekjal ftherese: you can of course edit individual records in the Cataloging module, but as for batch updates, that feature is forthcoming
22:11 pianohacker hdl_laptop: note that my current pref translation idea still involves writing out translated files, rather than having the interface access the .po files
22:11 sekjal batch Item updates are due in Koha 3.2, while batch biblio updates are still waiting
22:12 thd ftherese: Are you based in France?
22:12 pianohacker ftherese: You can change records and items one-at-a-time, though
22:13 hdl_laptop So we should have to translate the system preference template ?
22:15 thd ftherese: You should experiment with importing and testing whether it works well before you start actually using Koha.
22:15 pianohacker hdl_laptop: kind of, though the strings would be extracted, much like normal templates
22:16 thd ftherese: A few things may be difficult to fix later but it is easier to have things right the first time.
22:16 hdl_laptop so template translation would go into po file. But not YAML, that is what you mean.
22:17 thd s/first time/from the point when you start using the system/
22:17 pianohacker hdl_laptop: I think so, yes
22:17 pianohacker the work flow would be exactly the same as with a .tmpl file
22:18 hdl_laptop yes : SQL and tmpl translation would become YAML and tt2
22:18 hdl_laptop I have to play more with your system.
22:19 hdl_laptop But I also have to go to sleep.
22:19 hdl_laptop good night
22:19 hdl_laptop left #koha
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22:24 ftherese I am in france @thd
22:25 thd ftherese: There are libraries in France which use MARC 21 but you should consider using UNIMARC which is better for interoperating with French libraries.
22:25 ftherese oh gosh... what does that mean?
22:26 ftherese Am I going about the process wrong if I want UNIMARC?
22:26 thd ftherese: The meaning of the fields is very different and the Koha MARC frameworks are different for UNIMARC.
22:27 ftherese so now what's the procedure?
22:27 thd ftherese: MARC 21 has the widest usage internationally but not in France.
22:28 ftherese so I want to use UNIMARC
22:28 ftherese what do I do?
22:28 ftherese what do I read?
22:28 thd ftherese: many things will be quite the same but you have options to choose the base language and the MARC flavour as it is known in Koha on installation.
22:29 ftherese so I can change that in my koha installation
22:29 pianohacker brb work
22:29 pianohacker left #koha
22:30 Topic for #koha is now  Discussion channel for the Koha ILS | Next general IRC meeting will be held on 4 November 2009 at 19:00 UTC
22:30 thd ftherese: you cannot change from MARC 21 to UNIMARC after installing.
22:31 ftherese so I have to reinstall
22:31 thd ftherese: you would need to drop the tables in your database and install again from the begining if you want a different MARC flavour.
22:32 ftherese how do I drop tables into my database?
22:32 thd ftherese:  The most up to date public UNIMARC documentation is linked from[…]-acuni.htm#Biblio .
22:33 thd s/public/free/
22:33 ftherese this is sort of nightmareish
22:34 Jo left #koha
22:34 thd ftherese: how did you create your MySQL database in the first place?
22:34 thd ftherese: everything is nightmareish the first time.
22:34 Nate good night everyone!
22:35 ftherese[…]uide_ubuntu_hardy - followed this installation guide
22:35 Nate left #koha
22:35 thd ftherese: There are support companies to help manage the whole process for you of course.
22:35 ftherese and they would probably get paid for that... but I don't know who is going to pay them...
22:35 ftherese I certainly don't get paid
22:37 thd ftherese: Droping the database might be simpler.
22:37 sekjal left #koha
22:37 ftherese what do you mean by dropping the database?  they mysql one I hope
22:38 thd ftherese: reversing a line of the instructions you followed.  $ sudo mysqladmin -uroot DROP koha -p
22:39 ftherese there is nothing in the database yet though
22:39 ftherese well... unless the install process does something to it
22:39 ftherese crap
22:40 thd ftherese: During the install process you have to choose MARC 21 or UNIMARC
22:40 thd ftherese: Did you make it to that step?
22:40 ftherese surely
22:41 ftherese let me check what I put
22:42 thd ftherese: If you had then DROP the koha database and start again from Create MySQL Database in the instructions which you followed.
22:43 schuster left #koha
22:45 thd ftherese: You should also know about and the French Koha mailing lists, although, there are more people to help you in English.
22:47 ftherese well... I may check that out when it comes to specifics... but I have a hard enough time managing the vocab in English
22:48 ftherese So I need to rebuild koha after I delete the database correct?
22:48 ftherese (deleted and recreated the database)
22:49 thd ftherese: yes, after you DROP (delete) the koha database, then start again from Create MySQL Database in the instructions which you followed.
22:49 ftherese oh boy...
22:50 thd ftherese: Actually you can skip some steps
22:52 thd ftherese: After Create MySQL Database, then skip to Configure Apache.
22:53 ftherese I can't seem to find anything on google about creating a UNIMARC
22:54 thd ftherese: Within the Apache configuration step is #Browse to http://servername:8080/ and answer the questions.
22:54 thd ftherese: It should be one of the questions.
22:54 ftherese k
22:55 ftherese what about importing my data into unimarc format?
22:56 thd ftherese: Instead of 952 you would use 995 in the default Koha UNIMARC frameworks.
22:56 ftherese that is the least of my problems... I think
22:56 ftherese what do I do with my gigantic cvs file
22:57 ftherese sorry csv file
22:58 thd ftherese: Field 995 is for items holdings roughly following Recommandation 995 (actually an interlibrary loan standard in France)
22:59 thd ftherese: use the documentation for UNIMARC linked from[…]-acuni.htm#Biblio
22:59 ftherese thank you
23:01 thd ftherese: The Recommandation 995 standard is linked from
23:02 pianohackr|work joined #koha
23:09 ftherese I have a couple of choices... Unimarc_complet and Unimarc_lecture_pub
23:10 ftherese complete or public-read
23:10 thd ftherese: The specific Koha implementation is important to know.  Use the complete UNIMARC framework, although, one set of important values has not been defined for any French UNIMARC frameworks..
23:10 thd ftherese: If you keep to the basic fields which appear in the record editor you will be fine.
23:11 ftherese so... I should look at the record editor?
23:11 ftherese confused!!
23:11 ftherese sorry!!
23:11 thd ftherese: Yes.
23:11 ftherese what record editor?
23:12 ftherese MarcEdit?
23:12 thd ftherese: See which fields and subfields actually appear in the record editor.
23:12 pianohackr|work left #koha
23:13 thd ftherese: See which fields and subfields actually appear in the record editor.
23:13 thd ftherese: oops
23:13 pianohackr|work joined #koha
23:14 thd ftherese: look at the administration interface yourservername:8080 by the instructions
23:14 thd ftherese: you should have a login screen after you have finished with the web installer
23:15 thd ftherese: The link to the bibliographic record editor is at Cataloguing > Add MARC record.
23:15 ftherese k
23:17 thd ftherese: http://YourServerName:8080/cgi[…]uing/ or something like that.
23:18 chris_n2 joined #koha
23:19 ftherese I am looking at the editor
23:19 ftherese but I don't understand what is supposed to happen
23:19 ftherese every line looks like this 010 _ _ - ISBN
23:19 ftherese two mini blanks
23:20 cait good night #koha
23:20 cait left #koha
23:20 ftherese what is supposed to go in those blancs?
23:20 thd ftherese: Those are for the indicators which can be mostly ignored in UNIMARC
23:21 ftherese they are are too small to have any data longer than one character in them
23:21 thd ftherese: Exactly
23:21 ftherese the big ones are
23:21 ftherese 000 - Label
23:21 ftherese 001 - Numero de notice
23:21 thd ftherese: Press the + to enter a value in one of the collapsed fields
23:22 ftherese when I press + it just gives me a second one
23:22 thd ftherese: You can adjust the Koha MARC frameworks to define which fields are collapsed or expanded in the record editor.
23:22 thd sorry
23:23 thd ftherese: Press the - on the left
23:23 thd ftherese: to the left of the label
23:24 thd ftherese: after the indicator boxes and before a label such as ISBN is a -
23:24 thd ftherese: the defaults in the French UNIMARC frameworks are not as helpful as they should be.
23:25 ftherese ahhh! ok
23:25 ftherese I got it now...
23:26 thd ftherese: they can be fixed for better defaults but that requires a bit of time.
23:26 ftherese so what I need to do is go through the list and find all the fields that I have in my old library
23:26 thd ftherese: yes.
23:26 ftherese which correspond to numbers and letters
23:27 ftherese then add that to the MarcEdit tool
23:27 ftherese which creates a marc21 file to my knowledge
23:27 ftherese what do I do with that?
23:27 thd ftherese: each of the rows at top with a number is a different grouping.
23:27 thd ftherese: MARCEdit creates a MARC file
23:28 thd ftherese: The number and letter codes merely have a different meaning
23:28 thd ftherese: ... between MARC 21 and UNIMARC
23:28 ftherese so the only difference between marc21 and unimarc is the number-letter codes?
23:29 thd ftherese: In MARC 21, field 245 is used for title.  In UNIMARC, field 200 is used for title.
23:30 ftherese right... for example
23:30 thd ftherese: yes only the code meanings are different
23:30 thd ftherese: One thing to notice in the MARC editor is that some fields have a ... after them.
23:30 ftherese yes...
23:30 ftherese what does that mean?
23:31 thd ftherese: If you click the .... link then you have a popup form which guides you to completing the field correctly.
23:31 ftherese right ... got that
23:37 thd ftherese: If you look at the end of[…]ework_DEFAULT.sql
23:38 thd ftherese: You can see which 995 subfields are used for item mappings such as items.callnumber
23:39 thd ftherese:  items.itemcallnumber is stored in 995 $k
23:40 thd ftherese:  $ is merely one convention for designating subfields.
23:40 ftherese right
23:41 ftherese I got that part
23:41 ftherese where do we tell koha which library it belongs to?
23:41 ftherese the branch code goes in which marc number
23:42 thd ftherese:  995 $b Propriétaire is for items.homebranch
23:43 thd ftherese:  items.homebranch stores a code which may be much shorter than the actual branch name.
23:43 ftherese does koha need that?
23:44 thd ftherese:  yes, that is important
23:45 ftherese what does itemcallnumber mean?
23:45 thd ftherese:  just the complete call number
23:46 thd ftherese:  Items are managed with an editor only for items, although, they are stored in the same MARC record as the rest of the information.
23:47 ftherese itemcallnumber is the pointer?
23:47 thd ftherese:  itemcallnumber is the actual call number.
23:48 ftherese hmmm
23:50 thd ftherese:  itemcallnumber might be REF 760.823 BAC 1978 c.2 for a full Dewey Decimal number with a prefix designating reference only, DDC, cutter code, year, and a copy number indicating the second copy at the end.
23:50 pianohackr|work left #koha
23:50 thd ftherese:  The call number is merely whatever you use to classify the documents at your library.
23:50 ftherese Is the title under the 500s or the 200s ?
23:51 thd ftherese:  The title should be 200 in UNIMARC.
23:51 hugo joined #koha
23:52 ftherese and the author?
23:52 ftherese there are WAY TOO MANY CHOICES HERE... this could drive someone mad!!!
23:53 thd ftherese:  Authors are 700 - 703 for primary, secondary, and additional personal authors.
23:53 chris tell me about it, koha wouldnt support MARC if librarians didn't want it, certainly theres no way a programmer born in this generation would come up with that
23:54 thd ftherese:  You can limit the choices by editing the Koha MARC frameworks.
23:54 thd ftherese:  The frameworks are extremely flexible.
23:54 ftherese can I tell it... "only ask me the essential questions"
23:54 thd ftherese:  ... one of the nice features of Koha.
23:54 ftherese or do I have to sift through everything to find that out
23:56 thd ftherese:  ... Go to Home > Administration > Catalog > MARC Bibliographic framework to edit the bibliographic frameworks.
23:56 ftherese ok
23:58 ftherese so for several different co-authors.... I would have multiple 701$a's
23:58 thd ftherese:  If you hide all the subfields for a field appropriately in the framework, then it will not appear in the record editor.
23:58 ftherese do I need to "join" them?
23:58 hugo_ joined #koha
23:59 thd ftherese:  They are intended to be separated in MARC
23:59 thd ftherese:  The primary author would go in 701
23:59 thd ftherese:  The secondary author in 702
23:59 ftherese according to this the primary author would go in 700$a
23:59 thd ftherese:  oops

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