IRC log for #koha, 2009-09-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:26 ricardo joined #koha
00:26 ricardo Hi everyone
00:26 pianohackr|work Hello
00:28 chris hi ricardo
00:29 ricardo Can anyone tell me if the "easiest" way to convert Latin 1 MARC Records to UTF 8 is (still) using the MarcToUTF8Record from Koha's C4::Charset module, like Galen (kindly suggested me) in April 2008:
00:30 ricardo [Koha] Koha 2.2.9, Unicode (UTF-8), Latin-1 (ISO-8859-1) and migration to Koha 3
00:30 ricardo[…]April/013721.html
00:30 ricardo ... or is there some other Tool that does this "out of the box"?
00:31 chris not that im aware of
00:31 ricardo chris: OK. Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have an interesting day at work tomorrow, then...  ;-)
00:32 chris :)
00:34 ricardo If that works, I guess I'll also have to try to convince Galen to include that function as part of the MARC::Charset module (or something like it  :)
00:34 ricardo ... so it could also be available in CPAN for non-Koha users
00:36 ricardo Another semi-related question...
00:37 ricardo Is it possible to indicate different field separators for MARC records (coming from .iso files)?
00:37 chris hmm dont know that one sorry
00:38 ricardo Yep...
00:38 ricardo Tomorrow will be a VERY interesting day, eheh
00:38 ricardo chris: OK. Thanks anyway  :)  Time to go to sleep now.
00:39 chris sleep well
00:41 ricardo chris: Thanks. Bye!
00:41 ricardo left #koha
00:54 pianohackr|work windows--
00:54 pianohackr|work windows_installer--
00:54 pianohackr|work Trying to install XP on a SATA drive is like grinding teeth
00:54 pianohackr|work But less successful
00:54 pianohackr|work </off-topic-griping>
01:03 pianohackr|work left #koha
01:41 * chris_n2 often throws rocks at his windows (tm)
01:42 chris heh
02:23 chris_n2 is now known as chris_n2-away
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02:31 richard joined #koha
02:32 CGI184 i have a problem in koha 3, i can't delete some library, eg.. franklin, springfield, etc... how can i delete them so much so that only my library will be left.. thanks a lot
02:34 CGI184 it has a confirmation for deletion but nothing happens after that,
03:19 CGI184 left #koha
03:37 Amit joined #koha
03:37 Amit hi chris, brendan
03:37 Amit good morning #koha
03:37 brendan heya amit
03:37 chris hi amit
03:37 Amit chris: R u watching tri-series in Srilanka
03:38 chris its on too late at night
03:38 Amit hmm
04:06 brendan heya chris
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06:30 Ropuch Morning, koha
06:34 Amit hi ropuch
06:39 laurence joined #koha
06:40 hdl hi
06:49 Ropuch I have some problems with barcode generating - i have a 'title' field on it, but when i try to generate a label for title that includes some non-standard characters ("�" "�" etc) there's an error
06:49 Ropuch Wide character in compress at /usr/share/perl5/PDF/ line 819,
06:49 Ropuch Use of uninitialized value in addition (+) at /usr/share/perl5/PDF/ line 1286.
06:50 Ropuch Any idea how can i fix this?
06:52 chris hi hdl, didnt get much more done im afraid
06:53 chris about 15 more
06:53 chris Ropuch: what version are you using?
06:53 hdl well more than I could do myself :D
06:53 hdl Thanks.
06:54 hdl Will try to update and compile them all
06:54 chris cool
06:55 hdl in order to check for regressions
06:55 chris *nod*
06:55 chris there were a couple of syntax errors i fixed
06:55 hdl thanks chris
06:57 matts joined #koha
06:57 Ropuch chris:
06:57 Ropuch I'll update and check again
06:59 hdl members/moremember needs fixing.
06:59 hdl Wil do it
06:59 chris cool
06:59 chris Ropuch: the labels have been newly rewritten
06:59 chris so hopefully that will fix your problems
07:09 Kivutar joined #koha
07:16 kf joined #koha
07:19 kf good morning #koha
07:21 chris hi kf
07:22 paul_p joined #koha
07:22 kf hi chris
07:25 nahuel joined #koha
07:29 brendan night #koha
07:33 paul_p good night brendan !
07:46 |Lupin| joined #koha
07:46 |Lupin| Hello
08:01 Ropuch chris: there is small change in instead of "Wide character in compress at /usr/share/perl5/PDF/ line 819" i get
08:02 Ropuch Wide character in syswrite at /usr/share/perl5/PDF/ line 977.
08:03 chris hmm looks like its a bug in the 3rd party module it is using
08:03 Ropuch Well, it will wait till my IT get back, then
08:03 chris i wonder if there is anything on CPAN about it
08:04 Ropuch I have no perl-skills at all and my programming experience is rather poor
08:05 chris[…]ember/002191.html
08:05 chris looks like it is a known issue
08:05 chris if you see chris_n around .. he is the person you want to talk to
08:06 Ropuch Thanks
08:07 Ropuch But i'd rather make my IT to talk to chris_n [;
08:07 chris :)
08:10 |Lupin| chris: assume several files with MARC records. Is it correct that they can be concatenated with just cat, pls ?
08:13 chris iso2709 files?
08:14 |Lupin| chris: yes
08:15 chris i think so
08:16 |Lupin| chris: ok, I think so, too. Just wanted to double-check
08:17 paul_p hdl: 6d75e726d5755a7590c6079ee0caa59bbcbcf8f3
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10:08 hdl hi magnusenger
10:08 magnusenger hi hdl!
10:08 hdl gmcharlt: around ?
10:08 gmcharlt hi hdl
10:08 hdl hi.
10:09 hdl About new-acq, i donot see any topic branch on
10:09 hdl Is there some problems with that ?
10:09 gmcharlt sorry, almost there - teasing out the non-acq stuff
10:10 hdl Are you waiting from me ?
10:10 hdl In fact, we would like to be able to focus on biblibre-integration and new-acq bug fixing.
10:11 hdl during our "coderun"
10:11 gmcharlt they'll be there for you
10:11 hdl It is next monday
10:17 gmcharlt cool
10:53 laurence left #koha
11:04 slef gmcharlt: no, we've managed to avoid them so far. I think they're a hangover from the proprietary vendor model. How about you?
11:05 slef anyone know what kr1shnan wanted with me?
11:18 Amit hi galen, self
11:19 Amit sory slef
11:19 slef I've got email from kr1shnan so no worries.  Hi Amit
11:19 slef biab
11:21 Amit self: what mail
11:31 gmcharlt slef: not directly, but seen somebody else dealing with one - I found out yesterday that the "specs" themselves are proprietary, which impresses me even less
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12:16 mason left #koha
12:24 chris_n g'morning
12:25 hedgesst joined #koha
12:31 * chris wanders by on his way to bed
12:31 hedgesst good nite
12:34 chris_n g'night europe and nzland
12:37 hdl chris_n europe is not in bed
12:37 chris_n @later tell Ropuch the diacritical problems with labels is an ongoing issue with bug 2246
12:37 munin` chris_n: The operation succeeded.
12:37 hdl :D
12:37 chris_n opps :-)
12:37 hdl it is afternoon atm
12:37 * chris_n misread hedgesst as hdl.... :-S
12:37 hdl np
12:38 chris_n I wonder what implications that has for the rest of my day
12:39 gmcharlt hdl: congrats - I do believe chris_n just named you Assistant Doc Manager to help out Nicole ;)
12:41 chris_n heh... g'morning gmcharlt
12:41 gmcharlt morning, chris_n
12:51 owen joined #koha
13:08 jwagner joined #koha
13:16 jwagner Good (grumpy) morning....
13:19 owen Hi jwagner, did you have an angry donut for breakfast?
13:20 jwagner No, I had a failed sump pump and a flooded basement last week.  Been dealing with the consequences. Just had a plumber here making very expensive plans to replace my drain line.....  Whimper.
13:22 owen That'll do it.
13:23 jwagner Maybe I'll just hide in the corner for a while.  With my checkbook.
13:24 jdavidb 'sides, owen, the day that jwagner comes in all sweetness and light, better run fast.  There's a reason a mutual friend calls her "my favorite curmudgeon."
13:25 jwagner Hey!  I resemble, er, resent that remark!
13:25 jdavidb Safety message for the day:  Don't pester Jane until she's had her second cup of tea.
13:26 jwagner I haven't even had my first one yet!  Darned early morning plumbers....
13:26 jdavidb :-O
13:29 hdl jwagner: hi
13:29 hdl welcome
13:29 jwagner Bonjour (or bonsoir) hdl
13:36 nicomo joined #koha
13:48 paul_p hi jdavidb & jwagner & owen & chris_n & gmcharlt & all ppl from the west side of Atlantic ;-)
13:48 |Lupin| hi paul_p
13:48 jdavidb Howdy, paul_p! :)
13:51 chris_n hello paul_p
13:51 |Lupin| are CCodes defined at the biblio or at the item level,pls ?
13:52 hdl item
13:52 hdl ccode stands for circulation code
13:52 |Lupin| hdl: k, thanks
13:53 |Lupin| hdl: oooh ! I thought it was collection code... completely wrong then...
13:53 wizzyrea paul_p I just heard on NPR (radio news) that the french are abandoning the bise because of the swine flu! is that true?!
13:53 paul_p wizzyrea: it's true our govt says "maybe you should abandon the bise"
13:53 nicomo wizzyrea: can't be
13:54 paul_p but it's just the govt ;)
13:54 |Lupin| wizzyrea:  for whaat I can see, no, not specially...
13:54 wizzyrea oh, things are not right in the world
13:54 wizzyrea oh good, that makes me feel better. it's just the govt
13:55 * jdavidb debates internally which of wizzyrea's last two statements would make a better quote to hand munin.  Both are worthy.
13:55 jwagner Why not do a Join and add both?
13:55 wizzyrea lol
13:56 wizzyrea @quote get 23
13:56 munin` wizzyrea: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg munin register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
13:56 jdavidb @quote add <wizzyrea>oh, things are not right in the world      ....    oh good, that makes me feel better. it's just the govt
13:56 munin` jdavidb: The operation succeeded.  Quote #32 added.
13:56 wizzyrea ... you crack me up
13:56 jdavidb :D  I try.
13:59 anasha left #koha
14:00 owen |Lupin|: ccode stands for collection code. hdl is mistaken ;)
14:02 |Lupin| owen: ah good... so I was not completely wrong... thanks a lot.
14:14 schuster joined #koha
14:14 jdavidb @quote random
14:14 munin` jdavidb: Quote #20: "<wizzyrea> you will see no wedgie-ing from me" (added by jdavidb at 03:50 PM, July 31, 2009)
14:26 sekjal joined #koha
14:27 owen Hi sekjal
14:28 schuster Owen - what version of Koha are you currently running in production from LibLime?
14:28 * owen checks
14:29 owen
14:29 owen schuster: As far as I know we haven't been updated since June 1
14:29 sekjal hey, owen
14:29 schuster OK same as me - if you click on circulation and overdue - and filter on a borrower type does it run for you?  It runs ok on my test server but on production it kicks back a 500 error message.
14:31 owen The "Overdues" link with the big "Warning" label on it?
14:32 schuster Yes
14:32 owen We don't click that. The warning tells us not to :)
14:33 * owen has no idea what "resource intensive" means in the context of our collection
14:33 schuster That is what we use on a regular basis to get overdues by Homeroom lists...
14:33 wizzyrea we have it hidden in ours so people don't click on it
14:34 |Lupin| could someone explan what the "do" keyword means in Perl, please ?
14:34 |Lupin| like in the plugin launcher: do $cgidir."/".$plugin_name;
14:35 |Lupin| is it a thing that loads the file, and then the following line calls the plugin function exported by that file ?
14:35 * owen throws caution to the wind
14:36 owen schuster: It seems to be working. I was able to pull up a report filtered by patron category and branch
14:36 sekjal [Lupin] I believe in this case, it executes the Perl codefor $plugin_name in the cgi directory
14:36 schuster hmmm...  on production I get - An Error has Occurred! Error 500
14:37 sekjal citation:
14:37 schuster Works fine on test server... so where do I start looking?
14:37 pianohacker joined #koha
14:37 owen schuster: Usually the error logs. Do you have access?
14:37 schuster Yep.
14:37 schuster Locally hosted.
14:39 schuster Showing newbie status - where are the error logs housed?
14:39 |Lupin| hi pianohacker
14:39 slef schuster: whereever your koha-httpd.conf says
14:39 slef grep ErrorLog path/to/koha-httpd.conf
14:39 schuster ;)
14:41 schuster found it thanks for the tips everyone.
14:46 schuster Premature end of script headers:, - is what I have in my error log.
14:46 |Lupin| schuster: you may be able to execute the script from the command-line and then see all the warnings, add debugging information, etc.
14:47 hdl just some lines before, you should have useful information
14:47 owen schuster: Just about any problem will result in "premature end of script headers." As hdl says, look at what comes before that
14:47 slef yes, look at all lines with similar/same time
14:50 schuster unfortunately that is the only error for today [Tue Sep 08 16:22:01 2009] [error] [client] Premature end of script headers:, referer:[…]a/circ/ [Wed Sep 09 08:24:01 2009] [error] [client] Premature end of script headers:, referer:
14:51 |Lupin| schuster: as I said: execute the script from the command-line
14:51 |Lupin| schuster (with the same environemnet variables, same parameters...)
14:52 |Lupin| schuster: once you obtain the premature end of script, you're almost done. add a use warnings if the script does not contain one already, also the use diagnostics pragma may give you some very useful hints.
14:54 schuster OK you all have gone beyond my ability - thanks for the tips - calling support vendor!
14:54 |Lupin| schuster: oh, sorry
14:54 |Lupin| schuster: no Unix experience ?
14:55 schuster No problem I learn stuff from you all daily!!  I just know my limitations, and just am not at the knowledge level to know"environmental variables, parameters"
14:56 |Lupin| schuster: np, I can help with that
14:57 |Lupin| schuster: do you have a terminal opened ?
15:05 wizzyrea this is going to sound like an odd question... the algorithm that picks hold items for the pick list, is it the same as the algorithm that is in effect when a book that has a hold on it hits a scanner gun for checkin?
15:05 wizzyrea (does that even make sense?)
15:06 gmcharlt wizzyrea: not directly, no
15:06 wizzyrea not the same or not making sense, gmcharlt :)
15:06 gmcharlt not the same ;)
15:08 wizzyrea interesting, so you could conceivably end up with a different set of rules for scanned items vs picked items
15:08 wizzyrea interesting
15:08 schuster Lupin - I have a terminal open yes.
15:09 wizzyrea gmcharlt is there documentation anywhere of how it works? (notes
15:09 wizzyrea ?
15:09 wizzyrea )
15:11 Kivutar left #koha
15:12 |Lupin| schuster: ok, I'm gonna leave soon but let's see what we can do till there..
15:12 |Lupin| schuster: if you type
15:13 |Lupin| eho $KOHA_CONF
15:13 |Lupin| schuster: what do you see ?
15:14 pianohacker wizzyrea: Unfortunately, no. The code is the documentation, and it's not very clear code
15:14 pianohacker Even after atz's refactoring
15:14 schuster echo $KOHA_CONF - returns a blank line then the directory
15:15 |Lupin| schuster: ok
15:15 |Lupin| schuster: can you look in apache's configuration file for the definition of this variable and do an
15:15 |Lupin| export KOHA_CONF=thevalueyoufindthere
15:16 |Lupin| schuster: and do the same for PERL5LIB
15:17 * chris_n heads out for a reboot :-P
15:18 schuster in the apache2.conf file?
15:20 |Lupin| schuster: I have to run now, but I'm sure others can help. The idea is to look which parameters are passed to your script (i.e. what's the complete URL it is called with) and then give the same parameters on the command-line. Others will certainly tell you how to do that if you don't know. The goal here is to display in your terminal the same error message as you have found in your logs. Once you have that add warnings, prints, use diagnostics, whateve
15:20 schuster as I said this may be beyond me..
15:20 schuster Thanks for your help Lupin.
15:21 |Lupin| schuster: either in this file or in the file that contains the configuration for koha, look for something containing httpd.conf in Koha's installation directory.
15:21 wizzyrea pianohacker: thanks, looks like I"m going to have to poke through it
15:21 pianohacker Good luck
15:21 nahuel left #koha
15:21 |Lupin| good luck schuster
15:21 |Lupin| bye all
15:21 |Lupin| left #koha
15:22 wizzyrea pianohacker: it wouldn't be an issue if the randomized holds were actually random. :(
15:22 wizzyrea but it looks like they're weighted either alphabetically by branch or by collection size
15:23 wizzyrea which I'm sure was not the intention
15:23 wizzyrea oh, and the picklists aren't always moving on from an ignored pick when the list is regenerated
15:24 wizzyrea though maybe we  misunderstood how an ignored pick was supposed to work
15:24 pianohacker Have you checked the staticholdsqueueweight and randomizeholdsqueueweight preferences?
15:25 wizzyrea yea, we are randomizing
15:30 schuster Wizzyrea - are you using branch transfer limits?  - Administration > Library Transfer Limits
15:32 wizzyrea no, we are not using branch transfer limits
15:34 wizzyrea no, there's nothing in static, and random is turned on
15:34 pianohacker Oh
15:36 pianohacker wizzyrea: How many libraries in your consortium
15:36 chris_n left #koha
15:37 wizzyrea i'm wondering if the method of picking items for the picklist is like the following: items on the pick list are random, but items that are picked by crossing a scanner gun are opportunistic, meaning they are picked before other available items just because they are seen
15:37 wizzyrea 23
15:37 owen wizzyrea: that makes sense to me
15:37 owen I would think that is the way it should work
15:38 pianohacker wizzyrea: That is how I _think_ it works
15:38 brendan left #koha
15:38 owen wizzyrea: does that not sound right to you?
15:38 wizzyrea that's the behavior we're seeing, yes
15:38 wizzyrea we just didn't know how it worked
15:39 Colin_ joined #koha
15:43 pianohacker wizzyrea: I think I know what's going on with the pick list
15:43 wizzyrea me too, lets share notes :)
15:44 pianohacker the holds queue cron job puts items into a Perl dictionary, per branch; this means that if you don't have anything in StaticHoldsQueueWeight, the ordering will still be random
15:45 pianohacker Strangely enough, RandomizeHoldsQueueWeight _only_ randomizes a list provided in StaticHoldsQueueWeight
15:45 wizzyrea lol for real?!
15:45 owen Wait, what?
15:45 wizzyrea that sound you hear... that's my mind blowing
15:46 owen The random feature attempts to randomize based on the choices listed in the static option?
15:46 pianohacker owen: Yup
15:46 pianohacker
15:46 wizzyrea wowie
15:46 wizzyrea soo...
15:46 wizzyrea we should put something in there?
15:46 wizzyrea ^.^
15:46 Colin left #koha
15:47 pianohacker Also important:
15:48 pianohacker wizzyrea: Well, it would make things more consistently random
15:48 wizzyrea wowie. well that would be better
15:48 wizzyrea ok... well here's what I found (based on behavior)
15:50 wizzyrea item 1 has 3 items. Patron A has a hold on item 1, Next available. She is first on the list. Library A gets pick list, has item 1a on the list. They ignore it (for 9 days). Patron B places a hold on item 1, next available. Item 1b crosses a scanner gun at library B, item 1b goes to fill hold for Patron B (who is 2nd in line).
15:51 wizzyrea now
15:51 wizzyrea shouldn't 1b go to fill hold for patron A?
15:51 chris_n joined #koha
15:51 wizzyrea because she is first on the list?
15:51 owen wizzyrea: That would explain some of the oddities I've seen here
15:51 wizzyrea or is there an "assumed picked" status that assumes that 1a is going to patron A
15:51 wizzyrea just because it's on the list
15:51 wizzyrea for library A
15:52 owen If there is an "assume picked" status it's new to me
15:53 wizzyrea well it's not a real status
15:53 wizzyrea it's a "this looks like what it's doing" status
15:53 owen Yeah, I understand what you mean
15:53 pianohacker wizzyrea: Actually, I think that makes sense (without in-depth knowledge of ignored picks; are they an enhancement, or just the staff members ignoring Koha?); I think that when item 1a gets picked, the relevant reserve is assigned an item
15:53 pianohacker Which, to Koha, means that it's satisfied, even if it's not Waiting
15:54 wizzyrea staff members are ignoring koha
15:54 owen pianohacker: that assumes that the process which places the hold on the pick list alters the hold record somehow
15:54 wizzyrea owen: YES!
15:54 jdavidb pianohacker:  that seems to be the case; the hold_fill_targets table, I think it's called, has that assignment, rather than the reserves table.  I'm still muddy about all that, though.
15:54 wizzyrea which is wrong
15:55 wizzyrea if an available item hits a scanner gun it should always go to #1 first available on the reserve list
15:56 wizzyrea heh, is this why people don't do "allowonshelfholds"
15:57 pianohacker wizzyrea: From a cursory look-through of the code, it looks like it does treat items listed in hold_fill_targets as reserved
15:57 ricardo joined #koha
15:57 wizzyrea very very interet
15:57 wizzyrea interesting
15:58 owen pianohacker: the scan-the-book-holds-check treats items listed in hold_fill_tragets as reserved?
15:58 wizzyrea it = pick list, I think
15:58 wizzyrea hold queue
15:58 wizzyrea (sorry, we call it the pick list... stupid sirsi)
15:59 slef @dict dreck
15:59 pianohacker owen, wizzyrea: Everything, it looks like. CheckReserves is the relevant function that acts that way, and it's used in a lot of places in the code
15:59 munin` slef: wn: dreck n : merchandise that is shoddy or inferior [syn: {schlock}, {shlock}]
16:00 wizzyrea wowie
16:00 wizzyrea okies... so..
16:00 owen So to summarize, if an item is on the holds queue report, it will be treated as already allocated for the top person on the holds list. Any other copies scanned will then go to the next people on the hold list
16:00 wizzyrea I"m not even sure how to file this bug
16:01 wizzyrea well that's a good explanation, owen
16:01 wizzyrea so the question is
16:01 wizzyrea how to fix
16:01 wizzyrea adding a "pending pick list" status would do it
16:01 wizzyrea but the behaviour would still be wrong
16:01 wizzyrea technically
16:01 pianohacker owen: I think so. Fully checking that the code does act this way would require  a few hours of testing and a whole box of Advil
16:01 wizzyrea at least, in our opinion
16:02 ricardo left #koha
16:02 owen What I wonder is why it was designed this way...Was this a conscious decision?
16:02 pianohacker I'm not sure
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16:03 wizzyrea it seems like if a book is not picked from the pick list it should go on to another library
16:03 wizzyrea or a different item, anyway
16:03 owen I don't care if a book *is* on the pick list, if someone else checks another copy in first, give it to the person on the top of the list!
16:03 wizzyrea right
16:04 owen The worst that can happen is that the librarian scans the book and no hold pops up, or it goes to the #2 person
16:05 wizzyrea yea, we see that allll the time
16:05 rhcl_out is now known as rhcl
16:06 wizzyrea i think that must have changed when the NEKLS hold enhancement went live
16:06 pianohacker So I think my understanding is that the pick list should only be a suggestion to the librarians that you should go grab this book, and should not affect behavior?
16:06 wizzyrea yes, exactly
16:06 owen If the copy "picked" for library A turns out to be missing, the patron first in line for the book would end up being bumped by someone else
16:07 pianohacker owen: In the old model, or the one I think I'm describing?
16:07 wizzyrea in the old model
16:08 owen Yes, in the old model
16:10 wizzyrea are either of you filing a bug for this?
16:10 wizzyrea if not, I will
16:10 pianohacker Okay. This is starting to resemble the tribulations I went through writing PC reservations software for our library
16:10 owen wizzyrea: I nominate you, unless pianohacker can provide a better technical explanation?
16:10 pianohacker wizzyrea: As a very amateur librarian, I nominate wizzyrea
16:10 wizzyrea i'll add the basics, you can add more detail, PH
16:10 wizzyrea fair enough ;)
16:11 pianohacker k
16:11 wizzyrea there may be extensive usage of copy/paste :P
16:11 pianohacker You could always post a link to the relevant portion of the transcript
16:11 schuster Wizzyrea - if you look at transfer limits do you see a chart or just a list of location codes across the top?
16:12 schuster My test and production servers don't match...
16:12 pianohacker Going to , then clicking on the time next to the start of the conversation, will get you a usable link
16:12 pianohacker schuster: Actually, I think you might have owen to blame for that
16:12 pianohacker Coincidentally
16:12 pianohacker Hi, owen!
16:13 * owen recently submitted a template change for that interface
16:13 schuster hmmm how recently?
16:13 rhcl Note to pianohacker: I still intend to get back to your PC Reservations app that we briefly discussed some months ago and give it a try...
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16:14 pianohacker rhcl: I'm trying to get some Koha contracts squared away so I can use my free time to work on it, so your timing is good :)
16:14 owen schuster: the patch was approved a few days ago
16:14 schuster OK thanks.
16:15 owen schuster: Is it not working for you, or is it just different?
16:15 schuster I'm troubleshooting misc problems and finding differences...
16:16 schuster Between my test and production servers.
16:17 schuster I also see in the template that I have it won't work with 67 locations, 70 collections the script never finishes running to display this HORRIBLE grid.
16:18 owen Hmmm... I did not test with as many as 67 locations and 70 collections.
16:20 * owen tested with 45 collections and 20 branches
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16:20 owen What is horrible about the grid?
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16:20 schuster For example right now I'm scrolling to the right, but have no Idea what the top location is because the school I'm working with is half way down the list.
16:21 owen On your test server?
16:22 schuster Another question about this - if a hold is on a title - and you have transfer limits set what happens?  - this is production server test server doesn't show grid right now.
16:23 schuster I am sure I don't have your patch FYI...
16:23 wizzyrea does this make sense (sorry to interrupt, schuster)
16:23 wizzyrea - items on the holds queue that are crossing the scanner gun may be going to fill holds that have already been filled (especially for popular items). Processing the item should initiate a transfer for the next first available patron in the queue for that bib.
16:23 wizzyrea (and not necessarily be required to fill the hold for which the item was picked)
16:24 pianohacker wizzyrea: I think so
16:24 owen The first sentence doesn't make sense to me
16:25 owen Oh wait, I guess I understand
16:26 owen You're talking about items pulled based on the holds queue report
16:26 pianohacker brb, need to deal with a pidgin/google talk issue
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16:29 wizzyrea bug 3595
16:29 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3595 normal, P5, ---,, NEW, Items seen at checkin should always go to 1st priority hold
16:29 pianohacker joined #koha
16:29 gmcharlt ... or to local hold to avoid transfer
16:30 wizzyrea yes, that too, thanks
16:30 wizzyrea will add that
16:30 gmcharlt ... except when higher priority remote hold has been waiting too long
16:30 owen override a patron's hold position because a local hold is preferable?
16:30 gmcharlt owen: yep, some libraries do that
16:31 owen How do you determine when that is appropriate? How far down on the list do you look? How long is too long to have been waiting?
16:31 gmcharlt though I think more in a consortial situation
16:32 gmcharlt owen: you've fallen in my trap ;)
16:32 * gmcharlt awaits a general holds and transfers specification
16:32 wizzyrea if a local hold item crosses a scanner gun it should go to the first patron that qualifies for that item
16:32 wizzyrea that's the point of local holds though
16:32 ricardo Hi all...
16:33 wizzyrea so your patrons get your stuff first
16:33 wizzyrea though in most cases, amusingly, that means they wait longer
16:33 ricardo gmcharlt: Galen, I'm trying to do a routine to convert from "ISO Latin 1" / "ISO 8859-1" MARC records to Unicode UTF-8 records...
16:33 ricardo But, I'm having some problems (errors):
16:34 ricardo I'll paste it to
16:35 wizzyrea gmcharlt: seems like there ought to be a "holds working group" or somesuch
16:35 wizzyrea afk a min
16:35 ricardo
16:36 pianohacker wizzyrea: Sure! Just make sure that they can meet in person in a conference room with a full bar
16:36 gmcharlt ricardo: looks like garden-variety MARC format errors in the source data
16:36 gmcharlt ricardo: a run through MARCedit should help
16:36 ricardo gmcharlt: "garden variety"?
16:38 ricardo If it helps, I have the following information, regarding the input ISO file:
16:38 ricardo beginning of field character - 0x5E ('^')
16:38 ricardo end of field character - 0x23  ('#')
16:38 ricardo end of record character - 0x23  ('#')
16:39 ricardo gmcharlt:  I don't know where I should put that in the script, though  :(
16:39 gmcharlt oy
16:39 wizzyrea PH: and speed. lots of it
16:40 ricardo
16:40 ricardo "An exclamation typically expressing mild frustration or expressing feelings of uncertainty or concern."
16:40 gmcharlt ricardo: is there any way to get the source to produce actual MARC records?  field delimiter characters are wrong
16:40 pianohacker wizzyrea: Hehe
16:41 pianohacker Yeah, that's a very strange MARC file
16:41 ricardo gmcharlt: Well... the source is a ISO 2709 file... I can try to open it in MarcEdit. Let me check it
16:43 ricardo Great... Now MarcEdit is hanging the "Browse for Folder" stage
16:44 Colin_ ricardo: with those characters its not iso-2709 compatible
16:44 pianohacker ricardo: What is generating that MARC file
16:45 pianohacker ?
16:45 ricardo pianohacker: A software called "WinLib" (that I don't have access to)
16:46 ricardo If you're curious and read Portuguese:
16:46 ricardo[…]ML/WinLIB2000.pdf
16:48 ricardo ... and using MarcEdit to do a "Character Conversion" from "US/Western Europe" encoding to "UTF8" returns a friendly alert saying...
16:48 ricardo "here: -99"
16:48 ricardo Clear as mud, eh?  ;-)
16:49 Colin_ ricardo: It says you can parameterize the marc extract. Has someone substituted display characters for record separator etc thus making in formless in marc terms?
16:51 ricardo Colin_: The software used ("WinLib 2000") apparently uses the beginning of field / end of field / end of record characters that I mentioned above,f or ISO 2709 files. I don't know what are the "standard" ones
16:52 owen is now known as owen-away
16:56 Colin_ They should be 0x1d 0x1e 0x1f not prinitable characters. Most marc reading routines need these to be the separators
16:57 pianohacker ricardo: I'm not sure you'll be able to use those MARC files at all; if any of your subfield contents contain # or ^, there's not much you can do
16:58 Colin_ and # is ambiguous even in the file itself I forsee grief here
16:59 ricardo Colin_: Thanks for the info. Is there any online resource where I can read about those characters (0x1d, 0x1e, 0x1f)?
16:59 pianohacker Colin_: *nod* the usage of # for an end-of-field character and end-of-record character could be quite troublesome
17:00 pianohacker ricardo: Not too much to read, they're part of ascii. If you're on linux, you can run "man ascii"
17:01 ricardo pianohacker: "group separator", "record separator", "unit separator". Interesting. Thanks for the info  :)
17:01 gmcharlt ricardo: better is[…]specrecstruc.html
17:01 gmcharlt ricardo: and cheaper than actually paying ISO for 2709 ;)
17:01 Colin_ In a MARC context[…]specrecstruc.html
17:02 ricardo gmcharlt / Colin_ : Isn't this the kind of circumstance, where you should shout "Jinx!" ?  ;-)
17:03 ricardo
17:03 Colin_ I have a very old copy of ISO 2709 it dosen't add anything (useful)
17:03 ricardo "Used after the same response is said by two people simultaneously."
17:03 pianohacker Heh, yes
17:03 ricardo Colin_: OK, thanks
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18:01 owen Hi hedgesst
18:01 hedgesst hello
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18:14 owen Hi isospin
18:17 isospin when adding an item and the call number is populated from the bibliodata i can specify the MARC field to pull it from (i.e. 090ab) it seems like it would be worth extending the code to pull the call number from a specified list (i.e. 090ab 050ab) taking the first value that is present
18:17 isospin \hi owen
18:17 isospin does anyone think that sound like a reasonable request for a feature?
18:19 schuster Go for it.
18:21 sekjal I know my catalogers would love it
18:23 slef @dict gerrymandering
18:23 munin` slef: gcide and moby-thes responded: moby-thes: 26 Moby Thesaurus words for "gerrymandering": ballot-box stuffing, bunco, cardsharping, cheat, cheating, cozenage, diddle, diddling, dishonesty, dodge, fishy transaction, flam, flimflam, fraud, fraudulence, fraudulency, graft, grift, gyp, gyp joint, illicit business, imposition, imposture, racket, scam, swindle; gcide: Gerrymander \Ger`ry*man"der\, v. t. [imp. & (2 more messages)
18:23 slef @dict gcide gerrymandering
18:23 munin` slef: gcide: Gerrymander \Ger`ry*man"der\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Gerrymandered}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Gerrymandering}.] To divide (a State) into districts for the choice of representatives, in an unnatural and unfair way, with a view to give a political party an advantage over its opponent. [Political Cant, U. S.] [1913 Webster] Note: This was done in Massachusetts at a time when Elbridge Gerry was governor, and was (1 more message)
18:24 schuster So can anyone elaborate on transfer limits and how holds would impact it.
18:25 chris morning
18:25 owen Hi chris
18:25 slef as you can tell by my use of dict, this is a fun email I'm writing
18:25 schuster Howdy Chris!  We've been trying to solve the koha problems of the world today, but just keep creating more bugs.
18:25 slef hi chris
18:25 chris sounds like a normal day schuster
18:27 wizzyrea sorry schuster, I don't know anything about branch transfer limits
18:28 chris as donald knuth famously said "Software is hard"
18:48 chris_n heh
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19:02 chris_n quite a contrast =>
19:03 chris oh yeah, they predate koha the software :)
19:04 owen I wish they showed pictures of the merchandise
19:08 owen Okay, git question about working with these new topic branches.
19:08 indradg is now known as indradg|afk
19:08 owen I've done some minor tweaks to the new sysprefs editor
19:09 owen When I do "format-patch," should I be saying "origin," or specifying the sysprefs branch?
19:09 gmcharlt owen: it should be relative to origin/name-of-topic-branch
19:10 indradg|afk left #koha
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19:10 owen Ah, that makes more sense
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19:29 owen pianohacker?
19:29 pianohacker Hi, owen
19:30 owen Hey, I'm thinking we shouldn't use an <input type=password> in the new sysprefs editor
19:31 owen I would think we can assume a librarian is working in a secure enough environment when doing system administration
19:31 owen And I think there are usability issues in hiding that info from the person editing preferences
19:31 pianohacker Hmm. Definitely not, for the Baker and Taylor username
19:32 pianohacker I think you might be right
19:39 owen pianohacker: I'm confused by the "All" label for the FRBR prefs under Enhanced Content
19:39 pianohacker owen: It's because multiple services can satisfy a FRBR request
19:40 owen I'm still confused :)
19:40 pianohacker FRBR just turns on the "Other Editions" support. You can use ThingISBN or OCLC for that.
19:40 owen Okay,
19:40 pianohacker It's not service-specific
19:41 owen I get it.
19:41 owen I wonder if there's a better way to label it?
19:42 pianohacker "General"?
19:43 owen Yeah, that sounds better to me
19:43 owen Anyone else want to vote?
19:43 rhcl I approve
19:43 pianohacker Cool
19:44 rhcl What is FRBR? Free Range Beef Reserve?
19:44 rhcl Oops, somebody is calling me. BRB
19:45 chris_n heh
19:45 pianohacker That sounds tastier that hacking through a forest of sysprefs
19:45 wizzyrea it's only tasty after the messy part
19:46 chris heh
19:46 chris ok bus time
19:46 chris_n in that context, maybe FRBR could use koha to catalog related recipes
19:47 pianohacker Bleh. To be honest, I think I had enough steak for the year at KohaCon
19:48 wizzyrea that and plastic cheesecake
19:48 pianohacker Hehehehe
19:48 wizzyrea though seriously, wowie do they eat a lot of steak in texas
19:48 cait joined #koha
19:49 pianohacker The rest of you guys missed out on some good dessert
19:49 wizzyrea and fried cheeese stuffed avocados
19:49 wizzyrea only in texas, my friends
19:50 wizzyrea yes, flying dessert.
19:51 pianohacker Hmm. Sounds reminiscent of a chupaqueso
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19:54 wizzyrea hmm... i'm  not sure exactly what a chupaqueso is... but this thing I saw was a whole pitted avocado, stuffed with cheese, then rolled in some kind of breading and deep fried
19:54 wizzyrea I'm sort of kicking myself that I didn't order one
20:14 hdl hi chris
20:27 * chris_n gets hungry and leaves in search of food....
20:27 * chris_n greets hdl on the way out
20:30 collum left #koha
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20:42 richard hi
20:43 hedgesst hello
20:52 chris back
20:52 pianohacker wizzyrea: It's a "tortilla" made out of fried cheese, with melted cheese inside it
20:52 chris thats crazy talk
20:52 chris but yummy
20:53 pianohacker Greasy as all get-out, even with good cheese
20:53 pianohacker Good with pepperoni inside
20:53 pianohacker
20:54 chris wizzyrea: yeah i had that fried avocado
20:54 schuster How do bugs/enhancements get closed in Bugzilla?
20:54 chris took 7 years off my life expectancy
20:54 chris but was good
20:54 chris schuster: the person who entered them is supposed make them resolved/finished when they think they are
20:55 Jo joined #koha
20:55 Jo Good morning all
20:55 schuster OK so some logs that Kyle has put in he can close them.
20:55 chris yep, thats the plan
20:56 schuster In the process of cleaning up stuff - if we find things that are resolved, but can't get in touch with the originator then what?
20:58 chris if you are sure its resolved, its perfectly fine to mark it as such
20:58 chris if its not, then the original person can come reopen it :)
21:00 hedgesst left #koha
21:09 schuster Always the helpful one you are!
21:10 chris that was very yoda like of you :)
21:13 owen You've seen schuster, chris, Yoda would never wear a shirt like that!
21:14 pianohacker owen: Cancel button is a good idea
21:14 pianohacker Hmm. The XHTML spec really does require lowercase
21:15 owen I got validation errors from it. Perhaps a quirk of the validator?
21:15 pianohacker Most likely
21:15 pianohacker[…]try_xhtml1-strict.dtd_form
21:16 pianohacker Do you have a demo of the dl based language selector (or at least a screenshot)?
21:18 sekjal left #koha
21:18 owen[…]uage-selector.png
21:18 pianohacker Ohh, that's very nice
21:19 pianohacker owen++
21:22 owen See y'all later
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21:52 cait has someone tried holds in current head?
21:52 * wizzyrea has not
21:53 cait I have only one library in the system and I get "none of these items can be placed on hold2 in opac
21:53 wizzyrea this would imply that I *had* the current head. <grumble>
21:53 cait and "pickup library is different than Irma Tests home library"
21:53 cait remember: only 1 library and new cataloged item
21:54 cait have it on an old laptop :)
21:54 wizzyrea zebra?
21:54 cait yes
21:54 wizzyrea indexed?
21:54 cait yes
21:54 cait can search for the barcode
21:54 cait hm
21:55 wizzyrea hm
21:56 wizzyrea well
21:56 wizzyrea you are using the admin account?
21:56 wizzyrea do you have a set library for the admin account?
21:56 cait good idea
21:57 wizzyrea I would create a couple of new patrons
21:57 cait but next strange thing: I cant set it - tells me singlebranach mode is on. at work I use that too, but never saw this message
21:57 cait will try with another staff patron account next
21:57 wizzyrea and give them all the proper perms etc
21:57 hdl cait : might be a bug not adressed by nahuel's latest patches
21:57 cait good evening hdl
21:57 hdl hi cait
21:57 cait we should both be in bed I think ;)
21:58 hdl :S
21:58 wizzyrea Ah... maybe there's something funky :) Which I think is what you were asking in the first place.
21:58 hdl singlebranch mode is not managed in GetCirculationBranch
21:58 cait ok, now I get: no copies avaliable to be placed on hold
21:59 hdl Do you have HomeOrHoldingBranch system preference ?
21:59 cait holdingbranch
22:00 cait I think this is standard, i did not change it.
22:00 hdl Do you have maxrenewals set on categories
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22:01 hdl hi nengard
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22:01 cait hm. I had some problems with holds at work today too, wanted to test if it works in head
22:01 nengard howdy hdl
22:01 chris heya nengard
22:01 cait but now I dont get even as far as I did there
22:01 hdl you scared jwagner out of the chan :)
22:01 nengard oh no!
22:01 chris we wont over our female quota
22:01 chris wont=went
22:01 hdl hehe chris.
22:02 hdl mmmm. Maybe nahuel's patches have not made their way into trunk completely
22:03 * pianohacker raises an eyebrow
22:03 cait perhaps I just miss something
22:07 cait its allowonshelfholds
22:08 pianohacker This has been a day for holds problems :)
22:09 cait although the item is checked out, I can not place a hold on it, when allowonshelfholds is off
22:10 * nengard runs away from holds issues
22:10 chris run forest run
22:10 cait running away is no solution nengart, it will follow you everywhere ;)
22:11 nengard cait hehe - okay fine :(
22:11 cait I know how you feel, I tested AllowOnshelfholds... and it worked :( will test again tomorrow in our other installation.
22:11 cait going to bed now
22:12 cait good night everybody
22:12 cait left #koha
22:22 hdl chris : have couple of other commits
22:22 chris cool
22:22 chris ill make sure i rebase before i do anything
22:22 hdl But shelves and circulation is pretty messy
22:23 chris yep, we are gonna have to do some work there tidying that up
22:23 cait_laptop joined #koha
22:24 hdl there is a problem on opac-shelves.tmpl
22:24 cait_laptop its not AllowOnShelfHolds :) But something strange happened when I checked out my item for testing
22:24 hdl And it is quite hard to find.
22:24 cait_laptop I got status: checked out to... und Available displayed below. Dont know how that happened.
22:25 chris hdl: i suggest taking the template from master
22:25 chris and doing a diff
22:25 hdl cait_laptop:  explain
22:25 cait_laptop I checked the item in and out again, now its just checked out... and I can place the hold.
22:26 cait_laptop I dont figured out yet, how to repeat this strange status, but its the second time this happened.
22:26 hdl chris I have tried to do that.
22:26 hdl But still quite confusing
22:27 chris if you remind me in the email, ill take a look
22:27 hdl + multiple tags are putting themselves in the way
22:27 cait_laptop now really going to bed. bye :)
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22:41 nengard hi all - i'm asking for a bit of a vote
22:41 nengard owen emailed me in regards to my patch for bug 1172
22:41 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1172 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, NEW, option to disable user details update via opac
22:41 nengard he wanted me to still show the patron details just not in the edit form instead of disabling the tab altogether
22:41 nengard this makes sense
22:41 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
22:41 nengard i want to ask how you all think it should be done ... should I put it on /cgi-bin/koha/
22:41 nengard or should I put it on the my summary?
22:42 pianohacker I think is a good place for it
22:42 nengard or shoudl i create a new page to appear in place of /cgi-bin/koha/ if the system pref is set to not allow patrons to edit their records?
22:42 pianohacker For consistency
22:43 nengard okay - another question
22:43 nengard what is the permanent address?
22:44 nengard when you look at a patron record on the staff client you have address and alternate address ... but on the opac it's address and permanent address
22:44 nengard a bug i never noticed before
22:44 pianohacker Hmm, I hadn't noticed that either
22:46 hdl nengard: usually in academic libraries, permanent adress is in fact alternate adress for the student
22:47 nengard hdl - well maybe we should call it alternate ... so it's consistent
22:47 hdl So I guess we could for consitency change permanent address to alternat
22:47 nengard also the address box for the alt contact is one big textarea
22:48 nengard instead of two fields
22:48 nengard like it should be
22:48 nengard hehe hdl - great minds ;)
22:48 hdl but mine is tired ;)
23:08 nengard I have added bug 3596 to take care of the issues I have found with the opac view of the patron record
23:09 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3596 enhancement, P5, ---,, NEW, OPAC Patron Details Form Missing fields
23:11 chris cool
23:59 pianohacker Good night
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