IRC log for #koha, 2009-07-28

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:00 chris hi nengard
12:01 gmcharlt scopes are the worst creeps of all
12:01 jwagner gmcharld, I'll agree with that!
12:02 chris we probably need more scrums or something
12:02 chris or whatever the latest project management craze is now
12:03 chris 3 min meetings each morning, while doing handstands
12:03 jwagner I've been too busy to keep up with my project management journals, but personally I'm in favor of a steel cage match between the developers and the people asking for the stuff.  THAT should be fun :-)
12:03 chris hehe
12:03 gmcharlt two people enter, one spec leaves
12:03 jwagner (And it keeps me safely on the sideline!)
12:04 jwagner But on the bright side, I think there are some things that people are really going to like.
12:06 Amit hi galen, jwagner
12:06 gmcharlt hi Amit
12:06 jwagner Hi Amit
12:06 |Lupin| hello gmcharlt
12:06 gmcharlt and hi |Lupin| et al
12:06 jdavidb chris:  re: scrums--we used to do something like that when I was at Honeywell; they started every meeting with a safety message too..
12:07 chris oh?
12:07 jdavidb When a new boss came aboard, he asked for a quick safety note at his first meeting, and someone said, "Don't speak to David until he's had his caffeine."   "No, I meant a *real* safety message!"  "That *is* a real safety message."
12:07 jwagner Uh, oh.  I know this story....
12:07 chris hehe
12:07 |Lupin| mysql users: are there tools to automate copying data from one table in one database to another table in another database, pls ?
12:08 chris on the same server?
12:08 chris or different servers?
12:08 nengard gmcharlt is ther a way to set up x-chat to work with growl so that when my name is used in chat it notifies me? someone at LL told me how to do it on my old computer ... but don't have it set on my new one
12:08 |Lupin| same server chris
12:08 |Lupin| but the formats of the tables may b different
12:08 chris jdavidb: coming from a rugby playing country i cant take scrum's seriously
12:08 gmcharlt nengard: Preferences | Chatting Events/Sounds
12:09 chris |Lupin|: in that case, i have no idea
12:09 nengard gmcharlt i went there- i have my name being highlighted but not beeping ... which one do i want to change?
12:09 |Lupin| chris: ok, thanks !
12:09 jdavidb chris:  coming from a non-rugby playing country, I couldn't, either.  Having a meeting first thing in the morning is just insane, anyway.
12:09 gmcharlt nengard: from there, enable Growl for Channel Msg Hilight & Privatge Message
12:09 |Lupin| hello nengard
12:10 chris i just want to yell things like "don't kick the ball, pass it" and "Feed the backs"
12:10 jdavidb lol
12:10 nengard hi |Lupin|
12:10 gmcharlt chris: feed the backs?  /me imagines high tea on the rugby field
12:10 chris hehe
12:10 jdavidb @quote add <chris>i just want to yell things like "don't kick the ball, pass it" and "Feed the backs"
12:10 munin jdavidb: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
12:11 gmcharlt welcome back nengard
12:11 nengard okay - let's see if this works - nope :(
12:11 jdavidb @quote add <chris>i just want to yell things like "don't kick the ball, pass it" and "Feed the backs"
12:11 munin jdavidb: The operation succeeded.  Quote #19 added.
12:11 nengard bleh
12:12 |Lupin| nengard: anything we can do to help you testing your new settings ?
12:12 jdavidb Once we've got a hundred quotes in there, I want to see who the most quotable person is--Probably a toss-up between chris, wizzyrea, and pianohacker..
12:12 nengard |Lupin| just what you did - typing my username - but for some reason it's not notifying me of these messages
12:13 |Lupin| nengard: I'd like to achieve the same in irssi, but can't help you with xchat, sorry
12:13 nengard okay - changed settings again
12:13 gmcharlt nengard: ping
12:13 nengard YIPPPEE :)
12:13 nengard thanks gmcharlt
12:13 nengard it works now
12:14 |Lupin| great
12:14 |Lupin| any irssi users ?
12:16 chris yep
12:16 chris /highlight
12:17 chris hilight even
12:17 chris type /help hilight |Lupin|
12:18 chris you can do all sorts of funky regex's
12:18 chris ok, misuse of an apostrophe
12:19 chris that means it's time for me to go to sleep
12:19 jwagner G'night chris
12:20 chris have a good day all
12:21 gmcharlt good night, chris
12:25 |Lupin| sleep well chris
12:26 |Lupin| and thanks for the irssi hint
12:59 |Lupin| folks
12:59 |Lupin| are there any constraint codes such as branch codes should respect ?
12:59 |Lupin| or can the code be anything ?
13:00 owen Various codes have different constraints I think
13:00 gmcharlt basic one is length = 10 characters
13:00 gmcharlt support for diacritics in such codes is uneven; using plain old ASCII for them is safest
13:01 |Lupin| okay
13:01 |Lupin| I have a bunch of say 80 libraries in a db
13:01 |Lupin| without code
13:01 |Lupin| well in the old system the codeswere nuumbers
13:01 |Lupin| and for each lib we have address, etc.
13:02 |Lupin| what wold you guys recommend for importing all this in Koha ?
13:02 |Lupin| would you say it would be best to generate the codes manually, or would you suggest to reuse the old numbers, or to generate them automatically in another way ?
13:02 gmcharlt |Lupin|: you could continue to use the numeric codes if you wanted, although more described alphabetic codes are easier for your users in the long term
13:03 |Lupin| gmcharlt: but wil l the users see the codes ? I though they would only see the descriptions... ?
13:04 gmcharlt they'll mostly see the descriptions, but may see the codes in same cases
13:04 gmcharlt I mean, OPAC users should only see the descriptions
13:04 gmcharlt staff users may see the codes in some cases
13:05 |Lupin| gmcharlt: right.
13:05 |Lupin| gmcharlt: nobody won't ever see codes without descriptions...
13:06 nengard owen or gmcharlt can you tell me what this means?
13:06 nengard <!-- TMPL_UNLESS name="patron_flagged" --><th>Renew</th><!-- /TMPL_UNLESS -->
13:06 nengard what is patron_flagged?
13:06 slef nengard: grep -rn patron_flagged C4
13:06 owen Is that from one of those recent patches?
13:06 slef (I don't know, but I can find out if no-one else answers)
13:07 nengard owen - no - it's on opac_user.tmpl
13:07 nengard it's me trying to fix a bug that was recently submitted
13:07 nengard slef - tried that in my Koha directory but got nada
13:07 slef nor in mine
13:08 owen It gets set in
13:08 slef fire up git-blame-mode on it?
13:08 slef see what change introduced the change in the template
13:08 nengard slef very newbie here  - what is that?
13:08 owen If the patron has any restrictions: debarred, lost, gonenoaddress, the flagged value gets set
13:08 slef not sure what the equivalents are for other people
13:08 nengard owen - hmmm - i don't htink it's working:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3443
13:08 munin Bug 3443: enhancement, P5, ---,, NEW, Debarred patrons should not be able to renew items in OPAC
13:09 slef git-blame-mode is an emacs thing - colours and tags each line of the source with what commit added it
13:09 slef or last changed it
13:09 nengard thanks slef
13:09 nengard will try that
13:09 gmcharlt git blame filename is the command-line equivalent
13:09 gmcharlt if you're not using emacs
13:09 slef I'm looking for more general equivalents
13:09 slef gmcharlt: I'm told it isn't but I haven't checked.  Will check now.
13:10 nengard thanks gmcharlt that's what i would use
13:10 nengard do i need to be in the directory the file is in?
13:10 nengard i assume yes
13:10 slef it's easiest if you are
13:10 slef or at least in the koha.git working directory top-level
13:11 owen I don't see why bug 3443 would be an enhancement. Sounds like basic functionality to me. In fact I think you're right--I think it's something that used to work and broke.
13:11 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3443 enhancement, P5, ---,, NEW, Debarred patrons should not be able to renew items in OPAC
13:11 slef gmcharlt: hrm, git blame command-line is similar, but then you have to do something else to convert the 8-digit hex string at the start into commit details
13:11 |Lupin| actually, are the branch codes chosen once and forever, or is it possible to modify them later ?
13:11 slef (probably: git whatchanged -1 e660a339)
13:12 gmcharlt slef: true, but it's the whole nengard isn't using emacs thing that I suspect would be a bit of a hurdle
13:12 slef |Lupin|: possible but messy I suspect
13:12 slef nengard: try git blame opac_user.tmpl | grep patron_flagged
13:13 slef nengard: then try git whatchanged -1 HEXSTRINGfromStartOfLine
13:13 |Lupin| slef: okay -- so one really needs to pick up good codes...
13:13 slef |Lupin|: yes, picking "ThatMoronsBranch" is a bad idea
13:13 nengard c3e0cf6b koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/opac-user.tmpl         (Paul POULAIN      2007-10-12 03:05:33 -0500 185)         <!-- TMPL_UNLESS name="patron_flagged" --><th>Renew</th><!-- /TMPL_UNLESS -->
13:13 nengard 2f6a2464 koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/modules/opac-user.tmpl (Paul POULAIN      2008-01-13 01:39:12 -0600 224)                     <!-- TMPL_UNLESS name="patron_flagged" -->
13:13 nengard ba4c13a5 koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/modules/opac-user.tmpl (Owen Leonard      2008-08-25 11:14:36 -0500 263)                     <!-- TMPL_UNLESS name="patron_flagged" --><th>Renew</th><!-- /TMPL_IF --><!-- /TMPL_UNLESS -->
13:13 nengard ba4c13a5 koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/modules/opac-user.tmpl (Owen Leonard      2008-08-25 11:14:36 -0500 287)                     <!-- TMPL_UNLESS name="patron_flagged" -->
13:14 owen See, I knew it should have worked ;)
13:14 nengard oops - that was step 1 - not the second command slef told me to try
13:14 slef ; git whatchanged -1 c3e0cf6b
13:14 slef commit c3e0cf6b428541e1717e098aae5f5b8072409e33
13:14 slef Author: Paul POULAIN <>
13:14 slef Date:   Fri Oct 12 03:05:33 2007 -0500
13:14 slef
13:14 slef    #1255 : flagged patron can't renew
13:14 slef
13:14 slef then look at bug 1255
13:15 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1255 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---,, RESOLVED FIXED, Debarred patrons can renew via the OPAC
13:15 owen Ah, good--even an old bug to be resurrected.
13:16 nengard how come when i pick a bug that i think will be easy for me to fix it turns out to be a mess???
13:16 nengard should i reopen 1255 and mark 3443 a dup?
13:16 slef nengard: everything is connected.  Read Dirk Gently.
13:16 owen nengard: I think so
13:18 slef I think I agree.  Update(?) version and priority on old bug though.
13:19 owen nengard: Is this just about the "renew all" button?
13:20 nengard no
13:20 owen If I debar my account I don't see the inline links for renewing individual items, but I do see the renew all button
13:20 nengard it's the renew button
13:20 nengard in the OPAC
13:20 nengard I don't see a renew all in the OPAC ... hang on - have to go back and view
13:20 nengard oh look - i do have a renew all button :) hehe
13:21 owen If that's the only issue it should be an easy template fix
13:22 nengard owen okay - it's the renew all button only
13:22 nengard so I just need to put the flagged line around it
13:22 nengard and it should be fixed?
13:22 nengard right?
13:22 nengard but i'm still confused as to where patron_flagged is set - how would i have figured out what that meant if i was all alone?
13:24 owen I searched the Perl files for "patron_flagged" and got a hit from
13:24 gmcharlt right - you often need to grep through all of the Perl files, not just the ones in C4
13:24 owen Found this: if ( $borr->{'debarred'} || $borr->{'gonenoaddress'} || $borr->{'lost'} ) {
13:24 owen    $borr->{'flagged'} = 1;
13:25 owen }
13:25 nengard thanks for the tips guys
13:25 nengard patch on the way
13:25 nengard i have tested and it works awesome :)
13:27 owen nengard: Are you going to respond to Marshall Breeding's question "Integrating with your ILS through Web services and APIs" ?
13:27 nengard ummmm
13:27 owen I'm curious what your perspective is wrt Koha
13:28 nengard wasn't planning on it ... i think i only skimmed that
13:28 nengard will have to read it thoroughly
13:29 owen gmcharlt: I remember ages ago josh showing me some kind of XML service in Koha where you could pull details for a single record
13:29 owen Does that sound familiar?
13:30 gmcharlt owen: yes - basically, all of the APIs described at are present in Koha
13:30 nengard gmcharlt patch question - how do I write a summary that shows in the body of the email versus the subject line?
13:32 gmcharlt nengard: first one of the batch is what appears in the subject
13:32 gmcharlt then follow it by a blank line
13:32 gmcharlt then the rest of the patch description
13:32 nengard ahhh
13:32 nengard thanks :)
13:32 gmcharlt first line should be no longer than 60 characters or so
13:32 nengard i yell at you all for not putting in descritpions - so I have to make sure i follow my own rules :)
13:33 gmcharlt nengard++
13:33 owen gmcharlt: What purpose does the "link rel="unapi-server"" tag serve in the OPAC?
13:34 gmcharlt signals to things like Zotero that grok the unapi protocol where to get more information about bibs in a resultset
13:34 gmcharlt owen:
13:35 owen I thought Zotero was parsing data on the page itself
13:35 gmcharlt owen: no - Zotero uses unAPI and COiNS to grab that info from Koha
13:35 gmcharlt spared them having to write a custom translator for Koha
13:41 nengard owen - style question.  for this bug:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3139 if i were to move fields what would be the best way to do it?  I can float one field left and then put the other field next to it ... but is that the best way to use CSS?
13:41 munin Bug 3139: enhancement, P5, ---,, NEW, Patron Form Standardization
13:45 owen I'm concerned that moving fields will actually complicate things, make the form more difficult for the eye to scan
13:46 nengard okey dokey should we close the bug then? cause that's all that is left :)
13:47 owen You don't want to arm wrestle or anything?
13:47 nengard nope :) it's not that important to me ;) i save battles for things that really matter :) hehe
13:47 nengard I do want to explore ways to make that page shorter at some time - but that can be done other ways
13:47 owen Then my personal preference would be for you to close the bug
13:47 nengard closing now :)
13:51 owen Hey, how come Evergreen gets to be on the unapi examples page? They must have beat us to it.
13:52 gmcharlt owen: hmm, not an exclusive club
13:52 gmcharlt seriously, I think edsu or rsinger manage that website, ask'em to add Koha
13:53 gmcharlt or maybe it's dchud
13:54 owen Would the request format for Koha be like /unapi?id=koha:isbn:3460048719&format=marcxml ?
13:55 gmcharlt owen: not any longer - it's koha:biblionumber:123
13:55 gmcharlt oddly, not everything has an ISBN
13:56 owen So it's not like a search query where you can try different methods of access
13:56 gmcharlt owen: correctly - Koha's OpenSearch support is closer to that
13:57 gmcharlt oh, and
13:57 gmcharlt owen: you're in a maze of twisty microformats, all remarkably alike ;)
13:58 nengard fun stuff
13:59 owen Someone threaten to wedgie us before we nerd again.
14:08 |Lupin| hmm in case there are SQL experts around
14:09 |Lupin| is it possibl to combine insert and select in one query
14:09 |Lupin| so that the selected results are inserted in a table ?
14:10 collum Lupin:[…]nsert-select.html
14:11 |Lupin| collum: thanks a lot ! you're great !!
14:38 |Lupin| ERROR 1062 (23000): Duplicate entry '' for key 1
14:38 |Lupin| hmm
14:40 owen So I guess choosing which unapi format to use is just a matter of what one's preference is among the kinds of data returned?
14:43 collum Lupin: without seeing the code, my first inclination is that you need to use a 'distinct' keyword in your select statement.
14:44 |Lupin| collum: I don't know.
14:44 |Lupin| collum: what I'm trying to do is inserting libraries in the branches table.
14:45 |Lupin| collum: before the insertion this table has only one entry
14:45 |Lupin| collum: and there are 87 to be added
14:46 collum Lupin: it looks like you have to eliminate the one that is in the table already with your select statement
14:46 collum Lupin: 'and branchcode != 'brachcode'
14:47 |Lupin| collum: I did that...
14:47 |Lupin| collum: yep it's what I did...
14:47 |Lupin| collum: the only possibility is that there are some duplicates in the results from the select...
14:49 collum Lupin: select distinct(branchcode) from ...
14:49 |Lupin| collum: no actually the rows in the results from the select are unique, just checked.
14:50 |Lupin| collum: yup I tried: first a select without the distinct, then with the distinct, and got the same number of rows for each
14:52 collum Lupin: The next thing I would try would be a limited set.  See if one row gets inserted.  You can either limit or just say branchcode = branchcode.
14:55 |Lupin| collum: right.
14:55 |Lupin| collum: does mysql have some trace mechanism that would let one know at which point the request fails ?
14:56 |Lupin| ah just changed a little thing and it worked...
14:56 |Lupin| but there were some warnings which were not displayed...
14:57 |Lupin| is there a way to see them ?
14:57 |Lupin| ah show warnings...
14:59 collum Lupin: Sorry, I got sidetracked with something else.  Did you find the warnings?
15:00 |Lupin| collum: yep
15:00 |Lupin| collum: Now what remains is to nderstand why my first attempt did not work...
15:39 |Lupin| is it possible to specify that all the users in a given category shall have certain permissions automatically ?
15:48 slef |Lupin| not yet but one tool that would help is being developed twice. I think it might be bug 3332
15:48 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3332 enhancement, P5, ---,, ASSIGNED, Edit whole category of patrons
15:48 slef that's the one
15:49 |Lupin| slef, ok, will have a look to this one, thanks !
15:49 slef that would be about adding them afterwards
15:50 slef at least I don't think it's possible yet... but maybe I'm just forgetting how
15:50 nengard slef i do not think it is possible
15:50 nengard you are right
15:51 slef nengard: ta. I tend to use a few bits of koha lots and not things like configuring patrons very often - library staff generally do that
15:51 nengard slef I on the other hand have to do it every time I do training :) so I'm up on that part of things
15:51 slef and it must work fairly well because I don't see many support calls about it ;-)
15:52 slef nengard: I tend to train the head librarian on the technicalities, who then trains their own staff.  But maybe I'm working the wrong way ;-)
15:52 nengard if you're not getting calls then it's working a-ok :)
15:53 nengard I usually train however the library wants me to
15:53 nengard i tell them what we can do and let them pick what our schedule is - I'm there to teach them so I leave it up to them
15:54 slef similar, but not having a LibSci in the company probably means our "what we can do" is different
15:54 slef my next fun task may be to arrange training for our own workers :-/
15:55 nengard slef very true
15:55 nengard don't you also do things differently in the UK than we do here in our libraries?
15:55 |Lupin| :)
15:56 slef nengard: hard for me to comment, not knowing US libs much.
15:56 |Lupin| time to leave, end of working day here
15:56 |Lupin| bye everybody !
15:56 nengard bye Lupin
15:56 |Lupin| bye nengard, take care
15:56 slef nengard: UK, NL, SE and AU have lots of similarities, though.  I'll comment on more as we work there ;-)
15:56 nengard I think someone was talking about some differences between UK and US - thought it was you - guess not
15:58 slef No, I think that was PTFS
15:58 slef about punctuating authorities?
15:58 nengard slef no - it was a while ago - no biggy :)  you might want to check out the NEKLS training materials
15:59 nengard they took the manual and my training of them and created videos and guides
15:59 nengard and it's all awesome
15:59 slef All of the co-op-served libraries are specialist in some way, so I take care not to draw UK generalisations.
15:59 nengard
15:59 slef I think I have NEKLS materials bookmarked.  Are they linked from
15:59 nengard I'll have to check and see if they're linked - but there is the link for you to save
16:00 wizzyrea we should be :P
16:00 Sharon We have a new CE person on staff, so we hope to improve those materials soon, too.
16:00 nengard Sharon that is awesome
16:00 Sharon before our next batch of 7 libraries come on board.  We want it to be more professional-looking
16:02 nengard links added here:
16:35 pianohacker Good morning
16:37 nengard mornin pianohacker
16:37 pianohacker Hey, nicole
16:37 pianohacker Haven't seen you here for a while
16:37 pianohacker How are you?
16:37 nengard yeah - been setting up a new computer and before that travel but I'm back
16:37 nengard doing okay
16:37 nengard you?
16:37 jdavidb Howdy, pianohacker.  :)
16:38 pianohacker nengard: Good, busy
16:38 pianohacker jdavidb: Hey thar
16:38 nengard busy is good
16:38 pianohacker I suppose :)
16:38 sekjal good day, all
16:38 pianohacker Hi, Ian
16:38 sekjal hey, pianohacker
16:42 CGI098 hi
16:57 Sharon Help - how can we do an exact name search for a patron - we have a heather heath and it pulls up 197 hits!
16:58 pianohacker Not sure if you can do an exact name search
16:58 Sharon can we do 'surname:'
16:58 gmcharlt no, at present it always truncates on the left
16:58 gmcharlt my other left, that is
16:58 Sharon hmm. well that sucks raw eggs
16:58 pianohacker However, you might be able to throw in other information about the patron (like address)
16:59 Sharon nope, added branch and no go.
16:59 Sharon ok, gotta go do a group lunch, i'll play more later
16:59 Sharon ty!
17:00 pianohacker Always glad to say "Idunnotrypokingthis"
17:17 sekjal MeSH takes a long time to index...
17:23 cau0730 hi
17:23 pianohacker hi
17:23 sekjal hello
17:24 cau0730 i have a question and am hoping someone can shed some light on this for me
17:24 cau0730 i work at chinook school division in sask,canada and having a problem with koha
17:25 pianohacker cau0730: That's what we're here for
17:26 nengard This first paragraph match any of you?? hehe[…]ation_freedom.php
17:26 cau0730 we have been using koha for 3 years but we have really anal librarians here that think it is a bad program.  i have been adding quite a few features to koha as the need them and have a quite extensive changelist,   now of course i can produce my source to anyone that wants it but i will tell you now that it is based on our school division needs and again a lot of it is due to really anal librarians
17:27 cau0730 also i just started about 9 months ago and the gentleman before me was really not a programmer
17:27 cau0730 stating that
17:27 pianohacker nengard: Hmm. Curtains open, no mcdonalds, and don't drink soda, but I am listening to a remixed game soundtrack
17:27 nengard hehe
17:28 cau0730 i have moved our koha server over to a new box, 64bit ubuntu 9.04
17:29 cau0730 during the move diacritics have broken when adding a new biblio
17:29 pianohacker cau0730: Are all of your tables still set up for utf8?[…]ncodingscratchpad
17:31 cau0730 i think so but i will check, just one minute
17:32 pianohacker cau0730: Just out of curiosity, what was your old system
17:32 pianohacker ?
17:32 cau0730 fedora
17:33 pianohacker Your old ILS, rather
17:33 cau0730 the collation is showing as latin1_swedish_ci from items
17:33 pianohacker biblio and biblioitems would be the most crucial
17:34 cau0730 same thing
17:34 cau0730 also marc_subfield_table is swedish
17:35 pianohacker Are you on 2.2 or 3.0?
17:35 cau0730 2.2
17:35 pianohacker Ahh, ok. Then that page above should work perfectly for you
17:36 cau0730 so i need to set them all to utf8
17:36 pianohacker Yup
17:36 cau0730 i am not really that great with encodings can you tell :)   btw: i am american....  so you can see that i am naive  lol    jk
17:37 cau0730 thank you for your help with this :)
17:37 collum Thanks pianohacker
17:37 cau0730 now if i can only give them the search they wanted
17:37 pianohacker cau0730: This encoding stuff is weird, yes
17:38 pianohacker collum: For what?
17:38 cau0730 they want to search french materials without diacritics
17:40 cau0730 boy have i had a hard time with them :)   i had to change itemtypes to a circulation code/collection code standard cause they wanted it
17:40 cau0730 and of course i work for a school division so i have to also do other programming work
17:40 collum pianohacker: for your answers.  They are always excellent.
17:41 pianohacker Not a problem, happy to help :)
17:47 cau0730 pianohacker: the division just amalgamted three years ago.   before that they were using librarypro,Will tech, Maplewood,Resource Mate,Lexifile and the rest card catalogues
17:49 cau0730 and of course the developer before me only took 11 schools on and really screwed up.   It is so bad that he never hit on isbns so he just imported all data.   We have a database of over 150000 biblios and quite a few of them are crappy entries.   Lots of blank entries too
17:57 ebegin cau0730, have you though about moving to the lastest version of Koha?  Maybe there is a lot of thing that your library implemented that is already in the new version...
18:00 cau0730 ebegin: i have thought of doing so but we would lose the circ code/collection code method as well as i have extended branching quite a bit to allow ip based branching.   i really would move to the newest version if it wasn't for these librarians always ready to throw the whole system out the door.   i am facing annihilation of the system and if i suggest upgrading they will defintely break
18:01 pianohacker ebegin: I think koha has an equivalent to your circ codes and collection codes in the form of itemtypes and ccodes
18:02 pianohacker It also has an IP field for branches that allows you to restrict staff login by IP
18:02 collum cau0370: Can you create a duplicate of your koha system on another machine, upgrade it, to show the librarians the new features?
18:02 ebegin true
18:17 sekjal I'll be turning on my production server at the end of next month, and I don't have direct control over our network administration
18:17 sekjal what protocols on what ports should I tell my net admin to enable for my server?
18:18 sekjal obvious http on 80 and 8080
18:18 wizzyrea You using SIP outside your network?
18:18 sekjal wizzyrea: no
18:18 wizzyrea k, no problem there then
18:20 sekjal I want to allow incoming z39.50 connections, so ports 9998 and 9999
18:21 gmcharlt sekjal: note re z39.50 that you actually have complete choice - port 210 is the canonical Z39.50 port, but others (e.g., 9998 and 9999) can be used
18:23 sekjal ah, okay.  canonical is better
18:26 sekjal is usually that for biblio, authority, or both?
18:35 gmcharlt sekjal: bib, normally
18:36 gmcharlt but can be used for both, as db name would distinguish
18:37 sekjal excellent
18:54 chris morning
18:54 owen Hi chris
18:58 cau0730 i am still not sure i understand.  how come new_from_xm is converting the data.   i know that my collation is wrong on the tables but when you post around in addbiblio to add a field all the program does is get the information from the post values and then it adds another field, right?
19:00 |Lupin| hi again
19:01 cau0730 hi
19:06 |Lupin| hi cau0730
19:34 cau0730 okay now my data is all showing up weird
19:39 chris @gcalc 90 fahrenheit in celsius
19:39 munin chris: 90 degrees Fahrenheit = 32.2222222 degrees Celsius
19:41 cau0730 so the data is not corrupt but it isn't viewing it correctly
19:43 cau0730[…]
19:43 cau0730[…]
19:44 cau0730 there you can see that one
19:45 chris messy
19:46 cau0730 to say the least lol
19:48 chris im afraid, its gonna be a hard path back out of that, customised old 2.2.x install ... :(
19:48 chris you have checked the marc_* tables in the db eh?
19:50 cau0730 mysql> show full columns from marc_subfield_table;
19:50 cau0730 +---------------+---------------------+---------​----------+------+-----+---------+--------------​--+---------------------------------+---------+
19:50 cau0730 | Field         | Type                | Collation         | Null | Key | Default | Extra          | Privileges                      | Comment |
19:50 cau0730 +---------------+---------------------+---------​----------+------+-----+---------+--------------​--+---------------------------------+---------+
19:50 cau0730 | subfieldid    | bigint(20) unsigned | NULL              | NO   | PRI | NULL    | auto_increment | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:50 cau0730 | bibid         | bigint(20) unsigned | NULL              | NO   | MUL | 0       |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:50 cau0730 | tag           | char(3)             | latin1_swedish_ci | NO   | MUL |         |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:50 cau0730 | tagorder      | int(11)             | NULL              | NO   | MUL | 1       |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:50 cau0730 | tag_indicator | char(2)             | latin1_swedish_ci | NO   | MUL |         |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:50 cau0730 | subfieldcode  | char(1)             | latin1_swedish_ci | NO   | MUL |         |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:51 cau0730 | subfieldorder | tinyint(4)          | NULL              | NO   | MUL | 1       |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:51 cau0730 | subfieldvalue | varchar(255)        | utf8_general_ci   | YES  | MUL | NULL    |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:51 cau0730 | valuebloblink | bigint(20)          | NULL              | YES  |     | NULL    |                | select,insert,update,references |         |
19:51 cau0730 +---------------+---------------------+---------​----------+------+-----+---------+--------------​--+---------------------------------+---------+
19:53 cau0730 yeah this isn't good to cause they are cataloging  lol
19:54 chris yeah dont go changing them, but id just check a few rows, see if the data is a mess in there
19:54 chris ok gotta go catch my bus
19:54 cau0730 the data looks fine
19:56 cau0730 it is kind of weird.  i need to do a little testing here
20:10 slef anyone know how we get onto It doesn't seem to be using the planet feed
20:17 owen slef: Isn't it just following the hashtag?
20:34 gmcharlt slef: not sure - email nengard
20:44 CGI319 Hello folks. I just finished loading koha on windows. I wanted to try out the intranet but need a login and password. Apparently the person who loaded the software should know what it is (it was me) but I don't recall setting up a password and login. Any ideas?
20:47 chris slef: nengard has a yahoo pipes thing set up
20:47 chris so get her to add to that
20:47 chris back btw
20:49 pianohacker brb, going to see if I can free up some ram so git gc --aggressive can run without swap thrashing
20:58 richard hi
21:00 chris richard: have you seen ?
21:01 CGI319 Hi there, wanted to see if anybody has any input on my question above? ie, where I should look to find out what my login/password is. Sorry for the dumb question, not techie savy...
21:01 chris CGI319: if you can find the koha.conf file
21:01 chris the username and password will be in there
21:02 chris be warned tho, the windows version is old and lacks a lot of features that the new 3.0.x releases have
21:02 richard just looking now
21:02 richard way cool
21:03 CGI319 Yeah, thanks. Unfortunately we are windows only....we have pretty basic needs so hopefully it will do.
21:03 chris CGI319: cool
21:03 chris richard: yeah it looks really good
21:10 pianohacker That was fairly productive. ~15 minutes of CPU grinding brought my .git dir from 100 MB to 64 MB
21:10 chris nice
21:10 CGI319 Chris, I found the koha.conf file and I tried the user name and password user there...user: Koha; pass: password, and it didn't work.
21:11 chris hmm, i wonder how the db is managing to connect then
21:15 pianohacker CGI319: The password under <config>, or <serverinfo> ?
21:16 pianohacker Wait, nvm, this is 2.2
21:18 CGI319 I can get to the opac okay, just can't get into the intranet, if that helps.
21:30 cau0730 pianohacker: do you have any advice for me?   my data is displaying wonky
21:31 pianohacker Geh, trying to remember 2.2 database layout
21:32 cau0730 it is funny because it shows the data right in the mysql client but doesn't display it right
21:33 pianohacker Ahh, I think I know why
21:33 pianohacker On that encodingscratchpad page
21:33 pianohacker Try scrolling down to where it talks about modifying dbh
21:33 pianohacker And try that
21:36 cau0730 what part?
21:38 pianohacker[…]lt_character_sets
21:42 cau0730 no luck
21:43 pianohacker Huh. Is your browser interpreting things as utf-8 ?
21:43 cau0730 it should be...   i have it set up as utf-8
21:47 pianohacker @devs: sysprefs work so far:
21:47 munin pianohacker: downloading the Perl source
21:47 pianohacker Poor munin, wants to be a developer
21:51 cau0730 i feel for you munin :)
22:27 pie hello all :)
22:27 pianohacker Hello
22:27 chris heya pie
22:27 chris pianohacker: pie sits 4 desks away from me at work
22:27 pie hi chris :)
22:28 pie yeah, I wish it were more :-p
22:28 pianohacker Yup, @*
22:28 pie heh
22:28 chris pie: pianohacker is a koha developer from colorado, and holds the distinction of being the youngest person to commit a patch
22:29 pie that's cool ... and maybe lives at the highest altitude too?
22:30 cau0730 i used to work on the syllable project... and am working on an os now :)   i would rather do low-level c programming or gui c++ programming but yet i am a web developer at work  lol
22:30 pianohacker Hmm. I wonder if the web on my smartphone would work on top of one of the fourteeners in the state
22:30 chris heh
22:31 pianohacker ssh + home box = first patch made with hypoxia
22:32 chris lol
22:32 pie learn something new everyday:
22:40 cau0730 well i got into a fight over this fix that they wanted  lol    they want me to fix the character encoding but they aren't willing to wait out the process
22:40 chris ahh, life would be so much easier without users
22:41 chris :)
22:41 cau0730 :)
22:42 anxst i have a problem... i can't seem to get searches on terms with diacritics in them working, at least not when they are stored in a decomposed form in the database
22:42 anxst any ideas?
22:42 chris ahh you want to catch the europeans
22:42 chris i know that the french guys have it working
22:42 cau0730 doesn't help that they are a bunch of politicans here and they just want another "program" cause this one "sucks" and can't "do what we want it to do"
22:42 chris iirc it needs tweaking of the zebra config files
22:42 chris anxst: drop an email to the mailing list is your best bet
22:43 anxst k, will try that...
22:43 chris or come back in about 8 hours, when europe will be awake :)
22:43 cau0730 "we want an editiable marc view"  lol    same as addbiblio but it doesn't look the same and they are mad  lol
22:44 cau0730 can you search using easily without diacritics?   does anyone know
22:44 chris not with 2.2 cau0730
22:45 cau0730 zebra gives you this option
22:45 chris yes
22:46 cau0730 what is zebra exactly
22:46 chris an indexing engine
22:47 cau0730 ah okay
22:47 chris takes the marc, indexes it, and provides a fast and powerful search engine
22:48 cau0730 even fuzzy searching is enabled
22:48 chris yes
22:48 chris relevance ranking too
22:49 cau0730 okay i wonder how much work it would be to integrate it
22:49 chris id strongly recommend against trying to integrate it with 2.2
22:49 chris it wont work
22:49 cau0730 why is that?
22:50 chris the marc is stored in totally the wrong way
22:50 chris this is why 3.0 was written
22:50 cau0730 ah
22:50 chris a much better idea is to get a 3.0 going and port your enhancements to it
22:50 chris would be years less work
22:50 chris :)
22:51 cau0730 it would mean a lot of database redesigning though
22:52 chris to get zebra to work, hell yes
22:52 cau0730 oh i mean for me to get my version up to date with 3
22:52 chris a lot of the enhancements already made to 2.2 may well be in 3
22:52 chris i recommend getting a 3.0.3 up and have a look at it, maybe load your data in
22:53 chris forking is always a bad option, you end up where you are, with unsupported code that is really hard to maintain and you lose out on everyone elses work
22:54 cau0730 yeah. i didn't fork :)   if it was up to me i would have wrote my own using django and python
22:55 chris i now, but perpetuating the fork is only gonna cause hurt
22:55 chris if you get what i mean
22:55 cau0730 yeah tell that to my superiors :)
22:55 chris got an email address?
22:55 cau0730
22:55 chris im not sure they will listen to me though :-)
22:55 cau0730 oh that is my email address  lol
22:56 chris heya joetho
22:56 pianohacker Sounds like you're caught between a rock and a hard place
22:56 chris cau0730: maybe set up a demo to show them
22:56 pianohacker Maybe the liblime public demos?
22:56 cau0730 my predecessor did that but it wasn't enough for them
22:57 chris for 3 ?
22:57 cau0730 of course this is his fault too.   he spent two years jacking around
22:57 cau0730 yeah right before he left he showed them three
22:57 chris *nod* if patches had been submitted
22:57 chris the features may well have been in 3
22:57 chris ah well
22:57 cau0730 agreed
22:57 cau0730 it really sucks
22:58 cau0730 although you didn't want his patches :)    
22:58 chris hehe
22:59 chris ive been in this situation before
22:59 cau0730 if ($loggedinuser eq '533'){do_this()} elsif{$loggedinuser eq '566')}else ...
22:59 chris ouch
22:59 cau0730 lol
22:59 cau0730 yeah that bad :)
22:59 chris luckily we could convince the library that upgrading and getting back into the community was the win
22:59 pianohacker I've been coding perl for way too long (just a couple of years); the first thing I noticed is that he was doing numerical comparison with eq
23:00 cau0730 that is right
23:00 cau0730 it was horrible code
23:00 cau0730 anyway i have to go.   later
23:00 pianohacker bye
23:00 chris cya later
23:04 pianohacker chris: Any thoughts on the prefs code? (If you haven't a look, no biggie, just curious)
23:05 chris ahh its on my list to look at tonight
23:05 chris ill clone the repo and get it up and running and have a poke
23:05 pianohacker cool. How's your koha work going?
23:05 chris havent done any in the last few weeks
23:06 chris been busy with other less interesting stuff, but getting back into it later this week i hope
23:06 pianohacker good good
03:08 Amit hi chris, ebegin, richard
03:09 Amit good morning #koha
03:09 pie good (my) afternoon Amit :)
03:09 Amit hi pie
03:09 pie I love timezones, right until you need to get a computer to do them :)
03:09 pie and then they suck
03:10 Amit Pie: from which country u r?
03:11 pie I'm in NZ too, Chris is just on the other side of the room at the moment (we work together)
03:11 pie I've had a quick look at Koha a couple of month ago but I wanna get into it a bit more soonish :)
03:15 Amit Pie: NZ is my favioutre country
03:15 pie :)
03:15 pie mine too
03:23 Amit @wunder New Delhi India
03:23 munin Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 28.0°C (8:30 AM IST on July 28, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.47 in 998 hPa (Steady).
03:23 Amit @wunder Dehradun India
03:23 munin Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 23.0°C (5:30 AM IST on July 28, 2009). Conditions: Thunderstorms and Rain. Humidity: 96%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.38 in 995 hPa.
07:31 chris evening
08:18 |Lupin| good morning #koha !
08:20 chris hi |Lupin|
08:25 Amit hi lupin, chris
08:29 |Lupin| nice to see you all guys
08:29 |Lupin| hope you are all well
09:04 |Lupin| folks
09:04 |Lupin| I have a display problem
09:04 |Lupin| by branchnames contain accents that are handled in a bad way
09:05 |Lupin| however if I do a select branchname from branches where branchname like 'B%';
09:05 |Lupin| they appear correctly...
09:05 |Lupin| any idea where the problem may come from ?
09:06 kf do you have accents in the codes or in the description?
09:07 |Lupin| kf: in the description -- these are those not displayed correctly.
09:07 |Lupin| kf: no accents in the codes, though.
09:16 |Lupin| kf: did you find some ? are they handled correctly ?
09:16 kf sorry, needed to finish another task first
09:16 kf will look at it now
09:17 kf where do see them displayed wrong?
09:20 kf I have itemtypes and branches with umlauts - this seems to work without problems so far
09:22 |Lupin| kf: okay, so probably something is misconfigured here...
09:23 kf perhaps accents are handled differently
09:23 kf I can rename them to your description to test
09:25 |Lupin| kf: no I don't thik so actually. I have one site called "Association Valentin Haüy" with an umlaut and it does not work either
09:26 kf catalog and search work fine for me
09:30 |Lupin| kf: ok :)
09:31 |Lupin| kf: thanks
09:40 gmcharlt good morning
09:42 chris yikes
09:42 chris isnt it like 5.44am?
09:42 gmcharlt ?
09:43 gmcharlt and what if it is?  you wanna make something of it???????
09:43 gmcharlt ;)
09:44 |Lupin| hi gmcharlt :)
09:44 |Lupin| chris: do you know where the displaying problem cold come from ?
09:45 |Lupin| gmcharlt: don't you like tea ? perhaps a bit less aggressive for the body...
09:45 gmcharlt |Lupin|++
09:45 |Lupin| :)
09:45 chris is it only in the drop down |Lupin|
09:45 chris ?
09:46 |Lupin| chris: no
09:46 |Lupin| chris: hmm let me check the table of libraries...
09:47 |Lupin| chris: confirmed. When going to Admin -> Libraries and Groups, the display is wrong, too.
09:47 chris hmmm
09:48 chris but its fine in the db?
09:48 |Lupin| chris: and if I view the content of the branches table under mysql, the accents are printed correctly
09:48 |Lupin| chris: yes, it seems ok
09:48 chris the page is being served as utf-8?
09:48 |Lupin| chris: I don't know
09:49 gmcharlt |Lupin|: have you checked your DB character settings?
09:49 chris i havent heard of anyone else having this issue
09:49 |Lupin| chris: but in the <head> section there is an http-equiv which givet the mime tpe (text/html) and the charset, utf8.
09:49 |Lupin| shouldn't that be enough ?
09:49 chris yep, in that case it might be they are stored as latin-1
09:50 chris but displaying as utf-8
09:50 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I think I did but I'm willing to double check because I'm not sure I did it correctly
09:51 gmcharlt also, is your terminal set to UTF-8; if you're looking at the characters via mysql in a Latin-1 terminal mode or the like, may appear correct but be wrongly encoded
09:51 |Lupin| chris: $LANG contains fr_FR.UTF-8
09:52 |Lupin| s/chris/gmcharlt/
09:52 gmcharlt |Lupin|: here's how you check show variables where variable_name LIKE "character_set%" OR  variable_name LIKE "collation%";
09:52 gmcharlt show variables where variable_name LIKE "character_set%" OR  variable_name LIKE "collation%";
09:52 gmcharlt from mysql, even
09:53 |Lupin| let me see
09:55 |Lupin| hmm the w
09:55 |Lupin| hmm the two requests are identical ?
09:55 gmcharlt yrd
09:55 gmcharlt yes - just hadn't indicated where the request begins the first go around
09:56 |Lupin|
09:56 |Lupin| ok
09:56 |Lupin| thanks gmcharlt
09:56 |Lupin| these settings look weird to me...
09:57 gmcharlt yeah, they're wrong
09:57 |Lupin| :)
09:57 gmcharlt[…]ncodingscratchpad has the correct ones
09:57 |Lupin| I'm really wondering where the sweedish things come from!
09:57 chris sweden
09:57 chris :P
09:57 magnusenger |Lupin|: There is some info about this, at least for MySQL 4.1 here:[…]cratchpad#mysql_4.1 Not sure if there is a big difference to MySQL 5...
09:58 |Lupin| magnusenger: thanks !
09:58 magnusenger ooops gmcharlt beat me to it...
09:58 |Lupin| oh it's the same link, okay
09:58 magnusenger yep
09:59 gmcharlt downside is that the safest way to correct this would be to change the default DB settings, then create a new Koha database
10:00 gmcharlt presumably one can do enough hacking, possibly including munging a mysqldump file, to transfer your data
10:00 gmcharlt but I'm not sure of the details
10:01 |Lupin| gmcharlt: do you mean that just changing the server configuration as explained on the wiki won't be enough ?
10:02 gmcharlt |Lupin|: right - you also need to make sure that the tables are using the new collations
10:03 |Lupin| gmcharlt: and is there a way to see which settings are used by each table ?
10:03 gmcharlt |Lupin|: e.g.,[…]t-conversion.html
10:04 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yep, I knew this one actually,I just don't know what collation means...
10:05 gmcharlt |Lupin|: collation = rules for sorting, basically
10:05 gmcharlt |Lupin|: select column_name, character_set_name, collation_name from information_schema.columns where table_name = 'BIBLIO';
10:07 |Lupin| gmcharlt: thanks !
10:07 |Lupin| hmm that's gonna be a bit of work apparently... checking all the tables and all the columns...
10:07 |Lupin| gmcharlt: thanks also for the collation, that's what I thought because of the LC_COLLATE variable.
10:09 gmcharlt yeah, scripting will be your friend for that one, or else doing a mysqldump, munging it to make sure that (a) strings are UTF-8 and (b) you don't break MARC records and loading it into a new DB
10:09 |Lupin| gmcharlt: no marc records in the db for the moment.
10:09 gmcharlt |Lupin|: well, that makes it downright easy then
10:10 |Lupin| Just a few users, some libraries, document types, definition of new marc fields, things like that.
10:10 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yes ?
10:11 gmcharlt in that going through and changing the character set and collation of the tables should do it
10:12 |Lupin| gmcharlt: ok
10:13 |Lupin| I'll experiment
10:13 |Lupin| gmcharlt: thanks a lot, your help was precious. chris' too.
10:14 gmcharlt you're welcome
10:18 |Lupin| hmm in Debian the charset is not even mentionned in my.cnf... weird...
10:24 |Lupin| just restarted mysqld... here is what it says:
10:24 |Lupin| Checking for corrupt, not cleanly closed and upgrade needing tables..
10:24 |Lupin| any idea about what to do with that ?
10:24 chris ignore it
10:24 chris it says that everytime
10:24 |Lupin| ok :)
10:24 chris unless of course it finds corrupt tables :-)
10:26 |Lupin| hmm
10:26 |Lupin| just tried to see the variables
10:26 |Lupin| they look unchanged...
10:26 |Lupin| isn't it correct to add a file in /etc/mysql/conf.d ?
10:27 |Lupin| with a [mysqld] section containing all the necessary things ?
10:33 |Lupin| ah that's okay
10:34 |Lupin| Stupidly, I called the file conf.d :/
11:39 nahuel hi
11:40 nahuel hi gmcharlt
11:44 |Lupin| hey nahuel
11:46 nahuel hi |Lupin|

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