IRC log for #koha, 2008-07-16

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:27 slef Fallor: ow.  No control over the internet connection?
12:27 slef (I'd've replaced that router for doing that silliness.)
12:36 Fallor the router is replaced now
12:37 Fallor but the internet is a problem
12:38 Fallor we're in an island
12:38 Fallor on?
12:38 Fallor hmm... on island i think
12:59 slef on an island
13:34 Fallor yep :)
14:08 atz Fallor: a router that requires netbios needs to die.
15:12 slef Should the patron import and printing move from Tools to Patrons in intranet?
15:16 pianohacker Someone on the list seems to want to remove the default Koha username/password (kohaadmin). Is this even possible?
15:18 acmoore that's the one that's also the mysql login information, right?
15:18 pianohacker I believe so
15:18 slef I don't think so, but you can rename it easy enough, either at install or runtime.  Need to do several places almost all at once.
15:19 acmoore I think you can make mysql accept logins with no password. but, koha would still prompt, woudn't it? I think that's the crux.
15:20 pianohacker Yeah
15:20 slef I've not seen the list Q yet.
15:21 pianohacker Neeraj kumar and Morium Morshed asked at about the same time
15:22 acmoore I'm probably missing the question, too. they seem to want to change it, not remove it.
15:23 pianohacker Yeah
15:23 pianohacker And they'd probably still like their db to be password protected ;)
15:24 acmoore I'd hope so!
15:30 rhcl acmore: are you located in the KC area?
15:30 rhcl moore :)
15:30 slef rhcl: try acmoore
15:30 slef I don't know if acmoore uses nickname-alarms though ;-)
15:30 acmoore I do!
15:30 acmoore rhcl, yes, I am.
15:31 pianohacker /ping -f acmoore
15:31 acmoore ack!
15:31 rhcl OK, just wondering. We're in St. Joseph
15:31 acmoore rhcl, yeah, I think I noticed that. there are a few kohanians around us here in the area. some kansas libraries, too, I think.
15:33 rhcl NW Kansas area libraries were supposed to transition to Koha earlier this month; we are on somebody's schedule to go do a "look see" when they get smoothed out.
15:33 rhcl NE Kansas I mean.
15:33 acmoore ah.
15:34 acmoore Looks like that hasn't happened yet, I guess.[…]3720913/60/1180/X
15:35 owen rhcl, is that NEKLS?
15:36 owen It hasn't happened yet, but they're in the process
15:36 rhcl Hummm, interesting. Maybe I'll have somebody give somebody a call. Our director came from a NEKLS library and she knows everyone.
15:36 owen[…]selects-koha-zoom
15:37 pianohacker They went with ZOOM this close to 3.0? Odd.
15:38 owen I think the "zoom" is just Liblime's branding. They're going with 3.0.
15:38 pianohacker Ah
15:39 rhcl I see from the PR that they are using LibLime's hosted service.
16:07 mlasater join #kohanews
16:11 acmoore mlasater, it's over on freenode.
16:21 mlasater acmore, Thank you.
16:21 slef acmoore: yeah, why is that and where have the connection bots gone?
16:22 acmoore I put it on freenode since I didn't think we wanted it in here in #koha, I wasn't sure of the bot policy on, because I understand the stuff at freenode better, and I already hang out there a lot.
16:22 acmoore and, what connection bots?
16:23 slef there was bot(s) connecting freenode #koha to here at one point
16:24 acmoore slef, oh, I have no idea about that stuff. I notice #koha over there is registered, but unused. I don't recognize the person listed as the owner, either.
16:25 slef no, me neither... ahmuck?
16:29 pianohacker Hmm. lastreneweddate in the issues table seems to be unused
16:29 pianohacker Has anyone seen this?
16:35 slef[…]h=lastreneweddate
16:36 pianohacker Huh
16:39 atz pianohacker: i'm sure those empty lines in their report are just the result of JOINs that don't ensure the keys are NOT NULL
16:40 pianohacker Oh, not that
16:40 atz probably not relevant to lastreneweddate
16:40 pianohacker I'm just wondering whether I should have Circ::AddRenewal update it, since it should to fix bug 1551
16:41 atz good question
16:41 acmoore pianohacker, That looks like a completely reasonable thing to do.
16:41 acmoore that field isn't referenced at all in the rest of the perl code, though. weird. I'll check around and see if I can find more history about it.
16:42 pianohacker The only other place it's referenced is in catalogue/issuehistory.tmpl
16:42 pianohacker I'll work on that patch, in the meantime
16:43 atz acmoore: sounds fairly useless
16:43 atz the lastseen date should already get updated on a renewal
16:43 acmoore I can't find any problem with it at all.
16:43 acmoore go for it.
16:43 pianohacker acmoore: Cool, thanks
16:44 atz certainly won't hurt anything, anyway
16:44 pianohacker I know you guys were talking about timezone issues; is it safe to assume that Koha's "real" time and the mysql server time will agree ("UPDATE issues set lastreneweddate = current_date WHERE ...")?
16:45 acmoore no idea. that's what i'd use, though. I think that behavior might be unspecified as of yet.
16:45 pianohacker Ah well
16:48 pianohacker The convention in seems to be not to trust the mysql clock
16:49 atz pianohacker: we have plenty of code that inserts  NOW() and similar mysql date/times
16:49 pianohacker Okay
17:34 acmoore so, the three current misc/cronjobs/fines*pl scripts use Date::Manup::Date_DaysSince1BC to get a numeral to use in their output filenames. I think we're trying to phase out Date::Manip. Is there any accepted replacement for this? Shall I use a 'YYYYMMDD' type of number in the filename?
18:02 kados acmoore: Date::Manip was only being phaseed out for stuff that's time-sensitive like circulation
18:02 kados acmoore: it's fine to use it for cron jobs
18:03 acmoore hrm, OK. thanks
18:06 kados acmoore: Date::Manip is a really great module, it's just dog slow to load into memory, so we avoid it for stuff like circulation where it was consuming about 90% of the time for a given transaction
18:06 kados but in a cron job it's not really an issue
18:06 acmoore yeah, I'm with you. that makes sense. thanks
19:12 atz acmoore: for that case, see also the (largely undocumented) support for "sql" format from C4::Dates
19:12 atz aka "German" format
19:12 atz %Y%m%d    %H%M%S
19:12 acmoore thanks, atz. I'm just going to leave Date::Manip in misc/cronjobs/
19:13 atz yeah, not much reason to change that up
19:13 acmoore in the accountlines table, what's the diffeernce between the 'amount' and the 'amountoutstanding'?
19:14 acmoore from what I can tell, they're usually the same.
19:14 atz amount should just be that transactions' worth
19:14 atz so fine a guy twice for two different things
19:15 atz 5 bucks each time, and on both lines amount = 5.  Then amountoutstanding = 5 (in the first one) and 10 (in the second)
19:15 atz afaiui
19:16 acmoore so, if I want to levy a fine against a patron, I find his previous amountoutstanding, add my fine to it, and put that in the amountoutstanding in the new entry in the accountlines table?
19:17 acmoore that feels pretty weird, I'm aftraid I'm misunderstanding something.
19:18 atz yeah, i think that's it, basically.  the rationale is fairly sound, since it prevents you from having to sum up all the users positive and negative accountlines
19:20 acmoore Every instalnce of a call to CreateItemAccountLine puts the same value in both fields.
19:20 acmoore I guess the rational is sound. It seems like something we could use a database trigger for, though, or at least it should be wrapped up in C4::Overdues::CreateItemAccountLine somehow.
19:21 atz oh?  nice.  maybe it only gets adjusted when it is paid down
19:21 atz like i paid 2 bucks of the 5.  3 outstanding.
19:22 atz not sure why you'd want to itemize it like that (i.e., pay one fine, but not another)
19:25 acmoore sounds like this bug was getting there[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1730 but closed. I wish I could find cormack's new bug.
19:26 nengard atz you can't do that ... at least not the way it is now
19:27 nengard you have to pay the entire account line - so if you have a fine on one overdue item for $5 you have to pay $5
19:27 nengard if you have one line for $2 an done for $3 then you can pay just 2 or 3
19:27 nengard it's kind of annoying
19:27 nengard as for why you'd way to pay one fine and not another - mayb eyou only have $# in your wallet :)
19:28 acmoore aha. here's a bug that looks to be caused by the misuse of the amountoutstanding field:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1729
19:28 nengard $#  was supposed to be $3
19:47 acmoore atz, I notice there's a C4::Overdues::GetFine method that sums up the amountoutstanding fields, so that makes me think that it's not supposed to be a running total for a particular patron.
19:50 atz yeah, seems true.
19:51 nengard a developer may want to answer the comment on this post:
19:53 acmoore don't feed the trolls.
19:53 owen What is it with people saying, "maybe next time you'll switch to X?"
19:54 owen Sure, next time an underfunded library somewhere pays us to rewrite every line of code because they like X better
19:54 owen And we'll re-do the interface in Flash while we're at it.
19:54 atz lol, yeah dude, we're going to go Java.  
19:54 atz for what?
19:58 nengard hehe - no idea
19:58 nengard just thought you'd all appreciate that comment and could make a more educated response than i could
19:58 mc owen, someone seriously asked for it ?
19:59 atz mc: hard to judge their seriousness, but somebody asked.
19:59 atz (for java, not flash)
19:59 mc nengard, i read only one "head first" (this one about design pattern). this was the best book i read on this subject
20:00 mc pretty stupid!
20:00 nengard mc awesome!
20:00 nengard i'd love to see you all comment :)
20:01 mc but it sounds logical as java is the leading langage for ...
20:01 mc well i don't know how to tell it in english
20:01 mc managers who has no contact with technical reality
20:01 atz ... expensive development projects that never have to get anything done.
20:02 mc we're talking about the same guys :)
20:02 atz yeah.  should reply "what, no Oracle support?"
20:03 mc nengard, i agreed with acmoore: don't fill the troll and continue to buy o'reilly :)
20:03 mc :))
20:03 nengard :)
20:03 owen Didn't someone just suggest we switch to Python? Was that on one of the lists?
20:04 mc maybe we have to rewrite koha in php ... even python !
20:04 atz i think the idea was that google app. engine supports only python
20:04 mc ahah !
20:04 owen Yeah, and then atz promised to have a php version ready by Monday.
20:04 mc owen, yeeaah !
20:05 mc the only way for koha is C!
20:05 mc ;)
20:05 owen I was thinking maybe ActionScript in one giant Flash file
20:06 mc nengard, another point to not comment: as i said, i just read 1 book. Perhaps every others are awfull :)
20:11 nengard owen and atz - i'm on board for a PHP version :) that's my area of expertice ;) hehe
20:29 acmoore anyone know why there's both a date and a timestamp field in the accountlines table?
20:29 acmoore it seems a bit redundant, but perhaps I'm missing something.
20:39 eric hi guys.  How often is launched on
20:41 chris acmoore: timestamps are a special mysql thing, they are updated everytime the row is changed, (by mysql)
20:41 chris so it might be that they dont want the date to change
20:42 acmoore chris, good point, thanks.
20:42 acmoore now then, why are we setting it instead of letting mysql do it? aaargh!
20:42 chris :)
20:42 acmoore Also, I'm going to lobby that we start calling these things "last_modified" or something instead of timestamp.
20:43 acmoore but perhaps I'm way off on that one. (again)
20:43 pianohacker I think the timestamps are only updated if the column was set to ON UPDATE CURRENT_TIMESTAMP
20:43 slef nengard: I tried to comment "Yippee! The only times I've noticed Spam Karma 2, I've been left hoping that its user gets reincarnated as tinned chopped meat.  Maybe I only notice it when it malfunctions, but it doesn't seem a good way to fight spam." on your Spam Karma post, but Spam Karma blocked it!
20:43 nengard slef - i'll go approve it
20:43 slef nengard: I don't think it reached your queue because SK2 blocked it.
20:44 acmoore pianohacker, yeah, I know what you mean. I thinkmysql automaticall updates the first one or something during some operations. Anyway, it's set to update automatically.
20:45 nengard slef - comment is there:
20:47 slef Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/nengard/public_html/wp-content/​plugins/SK2/sk2_second_chance.php:2) in /home/nengard/public_html/wp-content/pl​ugins/wp-postratings/wp-postratings.php on line 691
20:47 slef
20:47 nengard slef - thanks for the error - i used to get that - i fixed it - guess it's back!!!!
20:50 nengard slef second comment approved
20:51 nengard and i may have fixed the error
20:52 nengard slef - what kind of spam do you get on your blog?  I have over 1000 blocked by akismet and another 500 stopped by SK2 - very few real comments get stopped by SK2 - i'm wondering why yours keep getting hit
21:10 slef nengard: I get the usual viagra and so on on our blogs, but most get blocked by typepad.  I deleted one spam today.  I think my comments get blocked for four reasons: NoScript, no cookies, I fail eyetests and I criticise Spam Karma 2.
21:10 nengard hehe
21:11 pianohacker slef: NoScript and no cookies? The grocery store probably has a special on foil hats too ;)
21:38 pianohacker Huh
21:38 pianohacker Koha has very odd capitalization around the members entry screen
22:31 ryan pianohacker: i think that's a french thing.  they always capitalize surnames.
22:31 pianohacker Not so much that
22:32 pianohacker Zip/Postal Code but Email address, last name some places but surname others
22:32 pianohacker Firstname without a space
07:03 chris evening
07:39 paul_koha hi chris
07:43 chris hi paul
07:45 chris :-)
07:45 chris one of those solved a quite nasty issue, if you had the wrong password for mysql ..or the server was down or anything like that, the error handling would loop forever
07:46 chris the other one was just a tiny one
07:48 paul 1st meeting before 1 month of vacation for universities.
07:50 chris ahh
11:57 nengard sys pref OpacBrowser says it needs build_browser cron - but there isn't a build_browser cron - there is a is this the same? if so we need to update the description for this sys pref

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