IRC log for #koha, 2008-05-24

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:45 nengard lists question
13:45 nengard When managing lists on the staff side, there are three list options - what is the free list/open list? Where does it show up? I thought public lists showed whether you were logged in or not.
13:49 nengard nevermind - it's a bug
13:49 owen A bug?!
13:50 nengard hehe
13:50 nengard according to atz it's a bug he knows about :)
13:50 nengard how about this one?
13:50 nengard What's the difference between ReservesMaxPickUpDelay and holdCancelLength?  They both look like number of days an item can sit on the hold shelf
13:51 atz nengard: i think the pickup delay is the time from when the book is "in hand" waiting for the holder
13:51 atz and the cancel length is the overall duration
13:51 atz which may be for a hold that *never* gets filled,
13:51 atz for ecample
13:51 atz *example
13:51 nengard hmmm - okay
13:52 atz but that's just based on discussion, not looking at the codebase
13:53 nengard it's a start
13:55 nengard i'm going to ask a whole bunch of questions to see if i can narrow down my long long list :)
13:55 nengard What is the 'Reports Dictionary'?
13:56 owen nengard: You can set definitions for particular groups of attributes in Guided Reports
13:57 owen So, I can define "Adult Women" as femail borrowers whose birthdates are after XXXX-XX-XX
13:57 owen It's a way to add shorthand to reports for easy re-use
13:58 owen Does that make any sense?
14:00 owen (...aside from my bad spelling)
14:10 nengard um ... re-reading :)
14:11 nengard it makes sense - but i'm not sure how to do it - off to my test site to poke and see if i can explain it a bit better ;)
14:12 nengard owen - here's a good question - where the heck did i see that in the first place? can't find a link to it ;) hehe
14:12 owen Guided Reports > View Dictionary
14:12 nengard ahh
14:12 nengard thanks
14:14 nengard okay - so i created a definition for women ... what do i do with that - will it be an option when creating a guided report?
14:15 nengard yep
14:15 nengard there it is
14:15 nengard neat
14:15 nengard okay
14:15 owen But now I'm confused...I thought could set up more than one parameter for the definition, but it's only showing me the dateofbirth option...
14:15 owen Maybe that's incomplete
14:16 owen No, there it is. I must have missed it before
14:16 owen Oh, it's just doing it the other way around now. Still only one option.
14:17 nengard hmmm
14:17 nengard i only tried it with one option
14:17 nengard so is there a bug to report here?
14:17 owen Well, I think it's just an example of an incomplete feature
14:17 owen A dictionary definition is really most useful if you can define multiple parameters (IMO)
14:17 nengard i agree
14:19 nengard you want me to submit a minor bug or enhancement request for this?
14:20 owen I'm not sure it's necessary. Guided Reports were begun with a full and detailed spec, funded in the beginning by my library
14:20 owen We ran out of money for it, so the completion is unfunded
14:21 owen I think this is a case where the manual needs to describe the behavior as-is, and keep our fingers crossed for the spec to be fully-realized
14:23 nengard you got it
14:23 nengard let's see - next question ...
14:24 nengard #  Can people without permissions to catalog see items and cataloging data? - a read only type permission ...
14:25 owen In the MARC view
14:25 owen Is that not sufficient?
14:26 nengard i think so - my question is if they click on cataloging or on a record from the staff search will they see what the cataloger sees? the ability to click on the items tab and the normal tab?
14:27 nengard they being - people who do not have cataloging rights - like the ref staff
14:28 owen If you don't have cataloging permission, you shouldn't see any cataloging link. If you search for a book and pull up its record, you won't see the 'edit' buttons, but you'll get all the 'view' optiosn
14:28 nengard what about the items?
14:28 nengard maybe i should create a user and play with them - that would make sense - wouldn't it ;) hehe
14:29 owen Yeah, if you're trying to understand permissions that's the best way
14:29 nengard okay
14:29 acmoore owen, is that partially completed spec for the dictionary stuff recorded somewhere, like bugzilla or wiki or something? Even if it's never done as was envisioned, sometimes it's helpful to understand what was in the minds of the original designers
14:29 nengard next
14:30 owen Non-cataloger users can see item information via the MARC view and via the 'Items' tab on the left of the normal view
14:30 owen acmoore: I don't think so, but Liblime drew up the spec, so you should be able to track it down.
14:30 acmoore OK. thanks. next
14:31 nengard next
14:32 nengard sys pref gist is set to 0 - shouldn't this make the GST line on go away?
14:33 owen I'd want to check with hdl or paul on that one
14:33 nengard okay - next :) btw - owen you're awesome :)
14:34 nengard finesMode - will it send an email (if set to 'test') for every fine accrued? what does the report look like
14:34 owen No idea. (How's that for awesome!)
14:35 nengard hehe ;) no prob
14:35 nengard i'll find another - i have plenty
14:35 owen finesMode is actually a new one to me...I should be checking that in the template on some screens
14:36 owen Like, hide the 'charges' column when finesMode is set to off.
14:36 owen At least that's how I understand it
14:36 nengard okay  - this one may be a known bug, I just want to check on it
14:36 nengard After creating a public list it didn't show up under the lists
14:38 owen Hmm... Creating a list in the staff client?
14:38 nengard i should have written that in my notes - i think it was the opac
14:38 nengard let me try again
14:39 nengard okay - opac - here are my steps
14:40 nengard 1 - search
14:40 nengard 2 - click save to lists on a result
14:40 nengard 3 - create new list
14:40 nengard 4 click save
14:40 nengard 5 - click lists button next to cart
14:40 nengard 6 - my new public list isn't there
14:41 nengard but it does show up here: koha/
14:41 owen Yeah, that's kind of a bug. The page with the lists button doesn't refresh, so it doesn't have the new list data to display
14:42 owen ..since the list was added in a pop-up window.
14:42 nengard yeah ... that makes sense
14:43 nengard should I report this? or is it not fixable?
14:44 owen I think it's fixable. I don't know how involved it would be, but it's worth a bug report.
14:44 nengard okey dokey
14:44 nengard next: #  Item public note doesn't actually display for items. Is this set to not display?
14:44 owen I notice you can choose to create a public list if you go through the 'manage lists' page
14:44 owen Sorry--you /can't/ choose to create a public list
14:45 owen Public note doesn't display where? In the OPAC? The staff client?
14:45 owen Both, probably. I'll bet it only displays in the MARC view
14:47 nengard owen - wait - confused - when creating lists I do have public as an option ....
14:47 nengard public note doesn't appear in either
14:48 owen nengard: you have public as an option on this page? /cgi-bin/koha/
14:48 owen ...or in the pop-up window from search results?
14:49 nengard pop up window from search results - this page i've never seen before :)
14:49 owen Hunh?
14:49 nengard hehe
14:50 nengard sorry
14:50 nengard how do you get tot his page?
14:50 nengard ohhhh - its the link on the manage lists page
14:50 owen Yes
14:50 nengard k - i never created a list that way
14:51 nengard i always did it from the detail page or search results
14:51 owen Yeah, it's not the most practical way
14:51 nengard while we're on this topic - shouldn't there by a My Lists tab on the profile??
14:51 owen Yes.
14:53 owen I see public note in the MARC view both in the staff client and the OPAC, but I don't see it anywhere else
14:53 nengard right
14:53 owen I don't know if there is a standard usage for that, but "public" certainly implies it should appear in the OPAC.
14:54 nengard hehe - that's what I thought
14:54 nengard and there isn't a standard use for it that I know of - not on item records
14:54 owen And wasn't someone asking about an item "private" note?
14:54 nengard so - that's one enh request for the my lists tab and one bug report for this public note thing?
14:54 nengard owen - yes
14:54 nengard we had a customer asking about that
14:57 owen So what would you put in a public note? The thing that comes to mind is information about damage to an item
14:57 nengard yep - that's all i can think of too
14:57 nengard but i've never working in a public library - who knows - maybe you'd want a note about an included CD?
14:58 owen That information should be in the description already
14:58 nengard when demoing librarians seemed happy about that option
14:58 nengard yeah it should
14:58 nengard maybe one has a missing CD ... which falls under damage
14:58 nengard who knows
14:58 nengard hehe
14:59 owen brb, phone
15:11 nengard welcome back
15:11 nengard updating my notes and bugs
15:14 nengard owen - did we go over this one? it sounds familiar: On the search at the top shouldn't be for the catalog but for funds
15:15 nengard paul do you know the answer to this one?  sys pref gist is set to 0 - shouldn't this make the GST line on go away?
15:15 paul iirc, it's the taxes rate.
15:15 paul 5.5% in France for example.
15:15 paul (0.055)
15:16 atz it should display, as zero, imho
15:17 nengard atz - but if you don't have gist then why have it there at all?
15:17 atz so you know you don't have any.
15:17 nengard hehe
15:17 atz it will vary by vendor, btw.
15:17 nengard not if the library is a non-profit
15:17 nengard there is no tax
15:18 nengard like the library who asked the question
15:18 atz foreign purchases
15:18 atz ?
15:18 nengard they don't make any
15:18 nengard it's a US public library
15:18 nengard not an academic library - who are more likely to make foreign purchases
15:18 ryan in dev_week, gst is hidden if set to zero
15:19 nengard it jsut seems that if you disable it it shouldn't show up
15:19 nengard ryan - what does that mean?
15:19 nengard it should be hidden?
15:19 nengard or it was at some time?
15:19 ryan both :)
15:20 nengard so it's a bug that it's showing up again ??
15:20 atz no
15:20 nengard k
15:20 atz dev_week is a branch version of koha
15:20 nengard oh
15:20 ryan perhaps we need an extra syspref
15:20 ryan but nobody here in the us wants that line to show up afaict
15:21 nengard okay - so enhancement request?
15:21 ryan yeah, i guess so.
15:21 nengard k
15:22 nengard just trying to go through all my notes and clear up some unfinished items - and unanswered questions
15:22 ryan i see atz's point that it should show zero if you _might_ have gst but don't
15:22 nengard i understand too
15:25 nengard thanks owen
15:27 nengard here's a toughy - I think
15:27 nengard borrowerRelationship what if the parent doesn't have a card and you're entering a child type patron - do you have to pick one of these? can it be left blank? should we put null values in this preference?
15:29 owen It's not required to enter guarantor information, if that's what you're asking?
15:30 atz i don't see the problem of making the parent get a card first.
15:30 owen atz: it's a library policy question
15:30 owen You'll get a lot of different opinions on that one
15:31 atz otherwise, just make the kid an independent account, right
15:31 nengard owen - that was what i was asking - thanks for the answer
15:31 atz ?
15:31 nengard atz - i'm not sure - i'm just repeating a question from a public library ... and one that i wanted to clarify in my manual
15:31 owen atz, when you add a juvenile patron it offers you the 'Guarantor' fields
15:31 atz right
15:32 owen nengard: Maybe if borrowerRelationship is empty the Guarantor fields should be omitted?
15:32 nengard owen - probably - cause wouldn't it cause a graphical error if the pull down was empty?
15:33 owen It's just strange to have an empty select
15:33 nengard yep
15:34 owen Uh oh, looks like uploading patron images is broken?
15:34 atz crap, again?
15:34 nengard owen atz - bugger!!! when did that break??
15:35 atz no idea.
15:36 owen I can't even click the 'upload patron images' link from I'm prompted to download the perl file
15:36 atz sounds bad
15:36 owen Hm, but maybe my system?
15:36 owen Can't locate Image/ in @INC
15:37 atz ah, yeah, I think that dependency slipped in
15:37 atz recently a patch got sent to account for it, not pushed up yet
15:38 atz cpan Image::Magick; # should fix it
15:40 owen atz, this is on arwen. Aren't others testing on that machine?
15:40 atz yes, let me check config
15:42 owen nengard: a benefit of working from home, I presume?
15:42 nengard owen - yeppers ;)
15:43 nengard sys pref SubscriptionHistory what is the diff between the options?
15:43 atz owen: cpan fails... looking at aptitude
15:46 atz owen: ok, try again
15:47 owen No luck
15:48 atz same behavior?   ok, i guess I'll try the cpan now that the binaries are in
15:48 atz same failure.   hrm.
15:49 ryan libimage-magick-perl ?
15:50 atz attempting
15:52 atz (points to perlmagick)
15:53 atz ok, that worked fine.
15:54 atz FYI:
15:54 atz Unpacking perlmagick (from .../perlmagick_7%3a6.2.4.5.dfsg1-0.14_i386.deb) ...
15:54 atz Setting up perlmagick ( ...
15:54 atz the cpan version that failed XS make was 6.40
16:01 owen Good news: not broken :)
16:01 owen atz, I hope all your other secret wishes come true too ;)
16:05 nengard hehe
17:07 nengard does anyone have a screenshot of a patron's record with overdue fines on the account?  if so  - can i see it? I need to see what it looks like so i can fake it on my demo site :)
17:38 owen nengard: You may have to set your loan period to one day, turn fines on, and see what happens
17:38 nengard owen  - can't - josh has the cron turned off on my system for fines :)
17:38 owen Oh, I see
17:39 owen Sheesh, doesn't anyone use fines?
17:39 nengard you can if you want :) hehe
17:46 nengard owen i got a comment today that the series on the opac should be linked - i agree - why is the pubilsher linked, but not the series?
17:46 owen I don't see why it shouldn't be
17:47 owen (this is another case where kados will shout: XSL!)
17:48 owen Hm...looks like it's linked here:[…]?biblionumber=254
17:50 nengard huh - mine is to:[…]?biblionumber=259
17:50 nengard must be the version they have
17:50 owen Could be a question of regular vs. XSL
17:51 nengard here's the question as they worded it - I think i'm confused
17:51 nengard Series fields are missing in records.  For example, search 'sunrise' by karen kingsbury.  It mentions the series in the title, but there is no link that will just bring up items in that series.  Also search daughters of Lancaster county.  'Storekeepers daughter' comes up, and it is in the "D or L. C." series, but I cannot see any indication of it in the regular record.  It would also be nice to have the number in the series.
17:52 owen Could they be talking about the search results screen?
17:55 nengard hmmmm
17:55 nengard maybe
17:56 nengard let me ask them to clarify
18:02 nengard email sent
18:02 nengard detail page question - I don't have a sample of this - what happens if a book has more than one ISBN (020) or if the 020 has text in it - like 'pbk' etc?
18:05 owen There does seem to be a problem with that display
18:16 owen Can anyone tell me how to run manually?
18:17 owen nengard: It seems like ISBN is truncated by opac-detail if there is 'extra' text:[…]?biblionumber=254
18:18 nengard owen - bug?? cause I think it is - but what does everyone else think? also if there are 2 020 fields they should both show
18:19 nengard and which 020 wins the battle? the first or the one that's numerically first?
18:19 owen Yeah, it's a bug. It looks like it's because opac-detail pulls the isbn from the biblioitems table, and the isbn column in that table is limited to...what is it now? 13?
18:24 nengard 13
18:26 owen I'm not sure there's any reason for there to be a small limit on that field, other than saving some resources
18:27 owen Obviously no one planned for there to be anything other than one clean isbn number in there
18:27 owen Which isn't surprising: a programmer is going to think, ISBN's a number with a fixed length, right? So we need a column with a fixed length
18:27 owen Then you get catalogers tossing who knows what in there
18:28 atz owen: most displays now use a "clean" isbn, since the amazon, syndetics, google content relies on it
18:28 owen But we're talking about showing the ISBN as it is in the MARC record
18:29 owen ...which is different. There might be additional text, or there might be more than one attached to one record
18:29 atz yeah, some ppl mentioned that already
18:29 owen "014-0-503-96X (pbk.-)"
18:29 atz right
18:30 owen Another argument for the XSL version of opac-detail
18:31 atz i'm still amazed at a system that sets up a field for an IDENTIFIER and then allows users to add free text to it.
18:31 atz wtg MARC21.
18:31 owen :D
18:32 nengard hehe
18:33 owen atz, I'll bet you know how to run from the command line. Can you help me with that?
18:34 atz let me check
18:37 atz looks rather undocumented (internally)
18:38 atz doesn't appear to take any arguments
18:39 owen Can you give me the idiots guide? :)
18:39 atz KOHA_CONF=/abs/path/to/my/koha-conf.xml
18:40 atz export KOHA_CONF
18:41 atz PERL5LIB=/path/to/under_C4
18:41 atz export PERL5LIB
18:41 atz perl /path/to/
18:42 owen /path/to/under_C4 ?
18:42 owen the parent directory?
18:42 atz right, in my case:
18:42 atz PERL5LIB=/home/atz/koha/production/koha
18:42 owen k
18:42 atz b/c my C4 is: PERL5LIB=/home/atz/koha/production/koha/C4
18:43 atz that statement is what allows all perl's  "use C4::Whatever;"   to succeed
18:43 nengard i think the answer to this is easy to figure out - but i want to check - the my reading history tab on the opac - does this nead to have the circ history turned on in the sys preferences? if it does (like i think) and circ history is off - what happens with this tab?
18:44 owen Yes, and it should disappear
18:44 nengard thanks
18:44 nengard i'll mark that in the manual
18:45 owen atz: I got an error, starting with "Can't connect to data source dbname=__DB_NAME__;"
18:45 nengard owen - opacreadinghistory and intranetreadinghistory - or just opacreadinghistory
18:46 owen one controls the opac and the other the staff client
18:46 nengard right - so if opac is off the tab won't be there ... but technically the history is still kept - that's important to note for privacy reasons
18:46 atz owen: are you using the right KOHA_CONF file?
18:47 atz sounds like you are using the one that isn't installed
18:48 owen the one in koha/etc
18:49 atz looks like you have 3 there
18:50 atz /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production-httpd.conf
18:50 atz /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production-npl.conf
18:50 atz /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-testing-httpd.conf
18:50 owen Sorry, I was looking at /home/oleonard/koha/production/koha/etc
18:52 atz looks like your active apache config references
18:52 atz SetEnv KOHA_CONF "/home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production.xml"
18:52 owen Okay, tried that and got "Died at line 44."
18:53 atz so that is probably the right one
18:53 owen open (FILE,'>/tmp/fines') || die;
18:53 owen So the tmp directory is inaccessible?
18:55 atz heh... crappy static temp naming convention
18:55 atz atz@arwen:~/koha/production/koha$ ls -l /tmp/fines
18:55 atz -rw-r--r-- 1 gmc gmc 0 2008-03-18 17:49 /tmp/fines
18:55 atz no yuo overwrite GMC's file!
18:55 atz but i'll kill that, since it's empty
18:56 atz ok, pls try again
18:56 owen Can't call method "output" on an undefined value at /home/oleonard/koha/production/koha/C4/ line 525.
18:57 atz hrm... my doesn't have a line that matches that at 525
18:57 owen my ($yearFrom,$monthFrom,$dayFrom) = split("-",$startdate->output('iso'));
18:58 nengard question about 'my purchase suggestions' has this page been fixed to only show 'my' suggestions? or is it still showing all suggestions?
18:58 owen nengard: I think there was a related patch recently, and I haven't seen if it's gone through or not.
18:58 atz ok, that makes sense now... it's an error from the output operation on a Dates object
18:58 acmoore is this It needs a little updating, I guess.
18:58 atz yeah, i'm sure it does
18:59 nengard thanks owen
19:01 acmoore nengard, how do you anticipate documenting the handful of cronjobs that koha has? I didn't really see anything in the manual.
19:01 atz owen: not sure where the "daysBetween" is getting called from though
19:02 nengard i don't know what they all are - when one is required that i know of - i put a note that say contact a system admin - if i create a doc will you start listing them?  I can make it look pretty and add content if i just have minimal info ....
19:02 atz acmoore: something like "cronjobs should be managed by your system administrator" and then run and hide
19:02 acmoore atz++
19:02 nengard atz hehe - that's what it says - word for word :)
19:02 nengard but really acmoore is right
19:02 nengard it should be in there
19:03 acmoore nengard, I'm editing a couple of them now, so I'll make sure that I produce something useful for you. If you point me at a good place, I can put content in there when I'm done.
19:03 atz depends on the purpose of the document.  For a user manual, no.  For a system admin guide, yes.
19:04 acmoore some of them are almost required to make koha work rationally, so they should at least be mentioned.
19:04 atz yeah
19:04 nengard acmoore doc shared with you
19:04 acmoore OK.
19:04 nengard the manual is for users and sys admins
19:08 atz owen: I'll hack on that script really quick
19:09 owen Is it possible to set up a page where users can run scripts like with the click of a button if no one has configured cronjobs?
19:10 atz owen: I'm not sure that would work for all of them
19:11 atz and some depend regular execution to avoid error
19:11 nengard owen i like that idea for any scripts that can work that way
19:12 nengard i'm quitting for the day - enjoy your long weekend US residents - see you all on Tues (if I can resist the urge to log in while on break)
19:16 atz gah.... CalcFine went from 3 arguments (as in fines2) up to 7
19:17 acmoore it's a good thing they're named arguments. o.O
19:17 atz yeah... i wish
19:22 atz would be nice if the author had prototyped the sub too... that way we would have known from the beginning where the error was
19:23 atz when perl would complain "3 args is not enough you cheap bastard!"
19:25 acmoore Oh, I never use prototypes. They confuse me.
20:47 owen atz, thanks for your help with

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