| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 12:32 |
|
owen |
Hi #koha |
| 12:32 |
|
paul |
hello owen |
| 12:33 |
|
paul |
(it's a holiday day today in France. I work, and the phone & mail is really quiet. good to be efficient ;-) ) |
| 12:34 |
|
nengard |
morning owen and paul |
| 12:34 |
|
nengard |
or good afternoon paul ;) |
| 12:34 |
|
paul |
hello nengard |
| 12:36 |
|
nengard |
circulation report question - I have these reports that I get no results for on my test system - it may be because I don't have enough data yet - can you tell me what they do? |
| 12:36 |
|
nengard |
nengard> Holds to pull |
| 12:36 |
|
nengard |
<nengard> Holds awaiting pickup |
| 12:36 |
|
nengard |
<nengard> Hold ratios |
| 12:36 |
|
nengard |
<nengard> Billing |
| 12:36 |
|
nengard |
<nengard> Daily reconciliation |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
Billing, I don't know. the others I know |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
Holds to pull => list the reserves you have to find in the shelves and do a return on to validate the hold. |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
only applicable if ReserveNeedReturn syspref=ON I think |
| 12:38 |
|
paul |
Holds awaiting pickup = list the reserves that are ready & await for the patron to take them at the library |
| 12:38 |
|
paul |
Hold ratios = don't know how it works, but displays how many reserve you had for a given biblio, to help you choose if you have to buy more items |
| 12:38 |
|
paul |
(mainly, it's for blockbuster I think) |
| 12:39 |
|
nengard |
paul - that makes sense! thanks so much for this info!! |
| 12:39 |
|
paul |
daily reco = list the money you've got today (or yesterday) to check that physical purse is equal to "Koha purse" |
| 12:52 |
|
kados |
morning all |
| 12:52 |
|
owen |
Hi kados |
| 12:52 |
|
kados |
hdl: any time frame on the fixes for bugs introduced recently? |
| 12:53 |
|
kados |
hdl: trying to plan around what to push up next, but don't want to create additional conflicts |
| 12:53 |
|
hdl |
hi |
| 12:53 |
|
hdl |
sending them asap. |
| 12:53 |
|
kados |
OK |
| 12:54 |
|
paul |
hello kados. |
| 12:54 |
|
paul |
you should have some patches from me in your queue. any problem with them (you haven't pushed them yesterday, when you pushed 20) ? |
| 12:55 |
|
kados |
paul: I have two from you, having to do with onloan field in items table |
| 12:55 |
|
kados |
and moredetail and item edition |
| 12:56 |
|
paul |
OK. there are 2 other, but i think i didn't mail them yet. |
| 12:56 |
|
nengard |
does this report: koha/reports/bor_issues_top.pl work? I get no results ... but it may be something to do with my system |
| 12:57 |
|
paul |
kados : done. 4 patches sent |
| 12:58 |
|
fbcit |
g'morning #koha |
| 13:02 |
|
Danny |
good morning |
| 13:06 |
|
hdl |
kados : about moremember page, I think that this page is quite confused with the fact that it has issues and fines tabs on it "same" as left hand tabs but data are differently displayed. |
| 13:11 |
|
owen |
hdl, I think that's a valid concern. What if we removed the tab below, leaving only the left-hand one? |
| 13:12 |
|
hdl |
I have added some features to moremember.pl page. |
| 13:12 |
|
hdl |
And I would like them to be ported to circulation.pl |
| 13:14 |
|
hdl |
+ this would mean more overhead to get all the information when it was previously on the same page. |
| 13:14 |
|
hdl |
+ then many data loaded in moremember wouldnot be used. |
| 13:15 |
|
hdl |
(only a little performance concern) |
| 13:15 |
|
owen |
I don't understand what you're trying to say. You're saying No, don't remove the lower tab because you're adding more features to moremember? |
| 13:16 |
|
hdl |
I say : if you/we remove tabs from moremember, it would be good to port things that were done on moremember checkout tab into circulation page. |
| 13:17 |
|
hdl |
(multiple return, renewal date ...) |
| 13:18 |
|
owen |
I think if we load circulation.pl with any more stuff it's going to be even slower than it is now |
| 13:20 |
|
hdl |
... |
| 13:21 |
|
owen |
What features have you added to moremember.pl? |
| 13:21 |
|
hdl |
multiple return renewal date. |
| 13:22 |
|
hdl |
look at the tab of one member which has current check out |
| 13:22 |
|
hdl |
it would not add more loading on the page. |
| 13:23 |
|
hdl |
maybe some little change on information display. |
| 13:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
greetings #koha |
| 13:26 |
|
owen |
hdl, what do you propose to do about the duplicated fines information on moremember.pl? |
| 13:26 |
|
owen |
hi gmcharlt |
| 13:27 |
|
hdl |
I have never used fines. |
| 13:28 |
|
hdl |
So I donot even know if both fines display look alike. |
| 13:30 |
|
owen |
The tab on moremember.pl only displays a summary of fines: a total due, or "no outstanding charges" |
| 13:34 |
|
danny |
hey owen |
| 13:34 |
|
owen |
Hi Danny |
| 13:34 |
|
danny |
do you still have that template that you showed me last week somewhere? |
| 13:35 |
|
owen |
I had to take that offline do I could work on "core" Koha today |
| 13:35 |
|
danny |
I noticed it isn't at that url anymore |
| 13:35 |
|
danny |
ah ok |
| 13:35 |
|
owen |
I'm going to forward the relevant files to Liblime so they can get it up on your test server as soon as possible |
| 13:35 |
|
danny |
that is great, thank you |
| 13:36 |
|
lloyd_ |
kados, around? |
| 13:59 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: about? |
| 13:59 |
|
hdl |
yes |
| 14:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
wanted to touch base with you about GetBorrowerCategory |
| 14:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
I think the overloading should be removed, and a new function written that provides the list of categories |
| 14:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
kados mentioned that you were working on a fix, so wanted to avoid duplicate effort |
| 14:01 |
|
hdl |
I worked on it. |
| 14:01 |
|
hdl |
Was about to send a complete fix for it. |
| 14:01 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: ok |
| 14:01 |
|
hdl |
But still overloading. |
| 14:02 |
|
hdl |
I spoke with a monger who saw no peculiar problem to send back hashes or arrays depending on the parameters. |
| 14:03 |
|
hdl |
This can be source of problem. |
| 14:03 |
|
hdl |
But having functions without chacking if they have correct parameters is also a problem |
| 14:04 |
|
gmcharlt |
yeah it's possible, but as we all discovered, this can complicate the client code that has to deal with such a routine - I'd prefer a separate, named function that indicates that you want a list |
| 14:04 |
|
hdl |
s/chacking/checking |
| 14:04 |
|
hdl |
OK. |
| 14:04 |
|
hdl |
So I am creating a new routine. |
| 14:04 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: thanks |
| 14:05 |
|
hdl |
Problem also is that the more routines we have, the less they are used |
| 14:05 |
|
hdl |
(GetAuthorisedValues stands for an exemple)... |
| 14:05 |
|
paul |
& the less easy it's to maintain |
| 14:05 |
|
hdl |
ve have GetAuthorisedValueDesc, .... |
| 14:06 |
|
acmoore |
getKohaAuthorisedValues... |
| 14:06 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: true, some conventions on DB accessor routines are needed (perhaps a general agreement to keep most SQL in C4 instead of the scripts) |
| 14:07 |
|
hdl |
I thought we already agreed on that point. |
| 14:07 |
|
gmcharlt |
also, I hope, becoming a bit more strict about using the API instead of using quick-and-dirty SQL in the scripts |
| 14:08 |
|
hdl |
But the fact is taht as soon as you want to filter or order results, |
| 14:08 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: well, if the agreement already exists, good :) |
| 14:08 |
|
hdl |
we have to write many routines. |
| 14:09 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: this is where a switch to a DB access layer like DBIx::Class may help, ultimately - remove the need to hand-code all of the accessors |
| 14:10 |
|
hdl |
or find a way to improve API so that filtering and ordering should be applied. |
| 14:11 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: of course - wasn't thinking of whipping that one up for 3.0 ;) |
| 14:11 |
|
hdl |
:D |
| 14:15 |
|
acmoore |
gmcharlt, the new installer code causes test failures for me. Do you have a second? |
| 14:15 |
|
gmcharlt |
acmoore: sure (couple failures related to specific SQL scripts are known, by the way - working on patches for that) |
| 14:16 |
|
acmoore |
Yep, that's it. installer/data/mysql/en/optional/sample_labels.sql |
| 14:16 |
|
acmoore |
thanks! |
| 14:26 |
|
hdl |
patch sent |
| 14:35 |
|
kados |
hdl: looking now |
| 14:37 |
|
kados |
hdl: you sure you sent it to patches@? |
| 14:37 |
|
kados |
hdl: all I see is: change in yuipath management : |
| 14:39 |
|
kados |
hdl: ? |
| 14:39 |
|
hdl |
can you see it now ? |
| 14:40 |
|
hdl |
I sent it to you and koha-patches. |
| 14:41 |
|
kados |
yes, now I do |
| 14:41 |
|
kados |
hdl: change in yuipath management patch introduces a dangerous condition |
| 14:41 |
|
kados |
hdl: it should be re-sent with an updatedatabase to fix existing installations |
| 14:43 |
|
hdl |
update systempreferences set value="locale" where variable="yuipath" and value like "%/intranet-tmpl/prog/%" ? |
| 14:43 |
|
hdl |
updatedatabase as such ? |
| 14:44 |
|
kados |
hdl: yes, exactly, along with kohaversion increment from 082 to 083 (about to push up 082 now) |
| 14:44 |
|
kados |
hdl: or leave kohaversion.pl to me |
| 14:44 |
|
hdl |
Since I will add to updatedatabase.pl |
| 14:44 |
|
kados |
hdl: goodnews, your patch works :-) |
| 14:44 |
|
hdl |
I also will cope with kohaversion. |
| 14:45 |
|
kados |
hdl: ok |
| 14:49 |
|
hdl |
kados : pls commit all your stuff to updatedatabase before I resend yuipath |
| 14:51 |
|
hdl |
or edit udpatedatabase.pl since it won't apply if I edit my updatedatabase |
| 14:51 |
|
kados |
hdl: about to |
| 14:52 |
|
kados |
hdl: OK, you can update from git now |
| 14:52 |
|
kados |
hdl: should be at revision 082 |
| 14:57 |
|
hdl |
there seem to be conflicts. |
| 14:57 |
|
kados |
hdl: conflicts? |
| 14:57 |
|
hdl |
on updatedatabase.pl |
| 14:57 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 14:57 |
|
hdl |
2 revision 80 |
| 14:57 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 14:58 |
|
kados |
I only have one |
| 14:59 |
|
kados |
yep, only one |
| 14:59 |
|
kados |
hdl: http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]fdb107063;hb=HEAD |
| 15:00 |
|
kados |
hdl: only one in git |
| 15:00 |
|
kados |
hdl: but I did have to adjust versions from patches as there were soe conflicts |
| 15:01 |
|
hdl |
mmm... maybe the way rebase works produces those conflicts. |
| 15:02 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: just rebased - not seeing double 080 |
| 15:05 |
|
hdl |
then I may have already applied your first DB reconciliation |
| 15:08 |
|
kados |
paul: patches pushed |
| 15:08 |
|
paul |
OK, great. |
| 15:10 |
|
kados |
installer guys, mostly gmcharlt and acmoore, have you guys looked at the patch from Marc: added TRUST_ENV ? |
| 15:11 |
|
paul |
kados : mc also has written a full sh script to install koha from a fresh debian etch in 1 script. |
| 15:11 |
|
paul |
he should submit it soon. |
| 15:11 |
|
kados |
owen: there's a syspref called globalDueDate :-) |
| 15:11 |
|
kados |
paul: great! |
| 15:11 |
|
owen |
Cool, I wasn't aware of it |
| 15:13 |
|
hdl |
anyone : how to get the git original copy of a file ? |
| 15:14 |
|
hdl |
git checkout is for changing branche. |
| 15:14 |
|
gmcharlt |
kados: not sure it's actually needed - the underlying MM::EU prompt() should detect when Makefile.PL is not being run interactively and plug in the supplied default |
| 15:14 |
|
gmcharlt |
kados: in any event, even if it is needed, I object to the gratuitous goto |
| 15:15 |
|
kados |
gmcharlt: that's what I thought about the MM::EU prompt |
| 15:15 |
|
kados |
cool, thanks |
| 15:15 |
|
kados |
I'll respond to Mc |
| 15:17 |
|
owen |
hdl, git checkout <file> reverts a file to the last commit, doesn't it? |
| 15:19 |
|
kados |
hdl: also have bugs in acquisitions to address I'm afraid ... can't any longer receive an order |
| 15:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
owen: yes |
| 15:21 |
|
hdl |
But it 's been a long time I did not change an acquisition file. |
| 15:21 |
|
kados |
and the JS doesn't work on neworderempty.pl for populating price |
| 15:21 |
|
kados |
hdl: OK, I'll try to track down who changed it last :-) |
| 15:22 |
|
kados |
hmmm, seems to be OK now |
| 15:22 |
|
kados |
except for the JS prob |
| 15:25 |
|
kados |
hdl: your RenewSerialAddsSuggestion patch might be the cause of your grief |
| 15:25 |
|
kados |
hdl: as i haven't pushed that one yet |
| 15:25 |
|
kados |
hdl: and it has a database update |
| 15:26 |
|
kados |
hdl: in the future I'd suggest submitting code and database updates separately |
| 15:26 |
|
kados |
hdl: much easier to troubleshoot that way |
| 15:27 |
|
hdl |
I will email the koha-devel list to say that. |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
hdl++ |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
hdl: also, did you see andrew's patch to 2081? |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
hdl: if it's acceptable I'll also skip your patch |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
though I suspect there may be a database issue there ... should we have a unique key for authorised_values table somewhere ? |
| 15:28 |
|
hdl |
not yet. |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
hdl: OK, let me know |
| 15:29 |
|
kados |
hdl: I have only 4 patches in my queue, all from you, and have open questions :-) |
| 15:33 |
|
hdl |
kados : has andrew sent his patch on the koha-patches list ? |
| 15:34 |
|
hdl |
I cant see it. |
| 15:34 |
|
kados |
hdl: yes, and it's been approved |
| 15:35 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 15:35 |
|
kados |
maybe I'm confused |
| 15:35 |
|
hdl |
kados : my patch is really needed. |
| 15:35 |
|
kados |
yep, I'm wrong |
| 15:35 |
|
hdl |
Since it fixes a problem when you edit authorisedvalues |
| 15:35 |
|
kados |
ok |
| 15:36 |
|
hdl |
(it tells duplicate authorisedvalues.... and it doesnot update) |
| 15:36 |
|
hdl |
patch yuipath resent |
| 15:37 |
|
hdl |
Why was RenewSerialAddsSuggestion rejected ? |
| 15:38 |
|
hdl |
And which other patch of mine do you have on your queue ? |
| 15:38 |
|
kados |
I have three now: |
| 15:38 |
|
kados |
Improving Breeding search |
| 15:38 |
|
kados |
Adds a new SystemPreference : RenewSerialAddsSuggestion |
| 15:38 |
|
kados |
change in yuipath management |
| 15:38 |
|
kados |
the first has an extra warn ... plus I feel it requires some heavy testing |
| 15:40 |
|
kados |
hdl: I'm quite certain it will fail badly if there are a lot of entries in breeding |
| 15:40 |
|
kados |
hdl: especially since it prepends terms with a wildcard, which is hard for mysql |
| 15:40 |
|
kados |
the RenewSerialAddsSuggestion |
| 15:40 |
|
kados |
I haven't had a chance to test it yet |
| 15:42 |
|
hdl |
kados : my opinion is that Breeding Search and z3950 searches should eventually converge on one page. |
| 15:42 |
|
paul |
hdl++ |
| 15:43 |
|
hdl |
kados : also, at the moment, Breeding is just useless, since it is not searchable. |
| 15:43 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: agree that it would be nice to be able to do a Z39.50 search directly w/o having to go to bib editor |
| 15:44 |
|
hdl |
(try to find a title you are sure to have in your base by anything but the first exact words..... you won't find it.) |
| 15:45 |
|
hdl |
(and there is a problem with quotes too) |
| 15:45 |
|
hdl |
I agree it is a BAD hack. |
| 15:46 |
|
hdl |
and it is not really good for big and plentyful breeding. |
| 15:47 |
|
hdl |
It would require a page facility. |
| 15:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: also more options to purge z39.50 result caches (and staged import_batches, which occupy the same table) to avoid infinitely ballooning the DB |
| 15:50 |
|
hdl |
But still, it is better than the one we have now. |
| 15:57 |
|
kados |
so we still have a breeding farm separate from the staging areas? |
| 15:58 |
|
gmcharlt |
kados: they occupy the same DB tables |
| 15:59 |
|
gmcharlt |
kados: just two different modes of access |
| 15:59 |
|
kados |
so this search searches all available staged records? |
| 15:59 |
|
kados |
why don't we just put the staged records into a zebra db? |
| 16:00 |
|
fbcit |
kados++ |
| 16:00 |
|
fbcit |
why not stage all search results of any type in zebra? |
| 16:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
kados: yeah, that's probably a better way of doing it |
| 16:01 |
|
gmcharlt |
fbcit: that may be going a bit too far - zebra isn't fast enough for inserts and updates to serve as a search results cache IMO |
| 16:01 |
|
gmcharlt |
though of course YAZ can do Z39.50-session-specific caching afaik |
| 16:01 |
|
kados |
pazpar2 could though |
| 16:02 |
|
kados |
probably we should switch to pazpar2 as our search client in 3.2 or a future version |
| 16:02 |
|
kados |
in place of my hackery |
| 16:03 |
|
gmcharlt |
kados: not unless ID implements pass-through of full CQL queries |
| 16:04 |
|
kados |
gmcharlt: yea, I've got the price tag on that, we may be able to afford it in Q3 :-) |
| 16:04 |
|
kados |
but I'd prefer a library sponsor that one |
| 16:04 |
|
kados |
*shrug* |
| 16:04 |
|
gmcharlt |
gotcha |
| 16:08 |
|
kados |
hdl: your patch doesn't apply ... |
| 16:08 |
|
kados |
hdl: your version of updatedatabase.pl started different than git it seems |
| 16:09 |
|
kados |
hdl: I'd suggest sending the patch and database updates separately |
| 16:10 |
|
kados |
bbiab |
| 16:10 |
|
paul |
bye kados |
| 17:19 |
|
hdl |
kados : my patch for Renew or for yuipath |
| 17:20 |
|
hdl |
kados : why don't we just put the staged records into a zebra db? |
| 17:21 |
|
hdl |
kados : this would be a good idea i think (had the same... thinking of all the search facilities). |
| 17:21 |
|
hdl |
adding a third base for staged records. |
| 17:22 |
|
hdl |
But would this be OK for anyone ? |
| 18:29 |
|
tim |
I'm having problems with returns, but I think it could be because issues aren' t recorded correctly. |
| 18:30 |
|
tim |
Issues and renews aren't filling the itemtype field in statistecs. I'm not sure if there are other things missing, but that's all I noticed in the error logs. |
| 18:33 |
|
tim |
Also, is statistics.itemtypes supposed to be set to NOT NULL? Mine was set that way, but kohastructure.sql has it default to NULL. |
| 18:40 |
|
tim |
Of course I woldn't have the errors in the logs to show me that the itemtype field wasn't getting filled if it was set that way. |
| 19:51 |
|
kados |
tim: when's the last time you upgraded, what version are you running? |
| 19:51 |
|
kados |
(you can check from the admin interface in 'About' section) |
| 19:51 |
|
nengard |
does anyone know if the items in the transfers reports (to do and to receive) expire? |
| 19:52 |
|
owen |
I suspect not |
| 19:53 |
|
tim |
kados: I think I updated last week. The version is 3.00.00.078 |
| 19:53 |
|
owen |
...but don't know for sure, nengard |
| 19:53 |
|
nengard |
owen - hmmm - mine have disappeared |
| 19:54 |
|
owen |
:) |
| 20:05 |
|
hdl |
nengard: you have a syspref for that. |
| 20:05 |
|
nengard |
ooo - thanks hdl - do you know which one? |
| 20:05 |
|
hdl |
but not 100% sure. |
| 20:11 |
|
kados |
nengard: I did a search on transfer in system preferences and turned up a couple hits |
| 20:11 |
|
nengard |
k |
| 20:12 |
|
nengard |
thanks kados & hdl |
| 20:18 |
|
kados |
hdl still around? |
| 20:18 |
|
hdl |
YES |
| 20:18 |
|
hdl |
eys |
| 20:18 |
|
kados |
hdl: I'd like to get my queue wrapped up, but I have two issues from you still |
| 20:18 |
|
kados |
RenewSerialAddsSuggestion needs to be re-submitted |
| 20:18 |
|
kados |
and change in yuipath management |
| 20:18 |
|
kados |
also doesn't apply correctly |
| 20:19 |
|
hdl |
I will try to re-submit. |
| 20:21 |
|
kados |
hdl: please submit all changes to updatedatabase.pl, kohastructure.sql and kohaversion.pl separately from code changes |
| 20:21 |
|
kados |
(ie, as a separate patch) |
| 20:21 |
|
hdl |
(If i still can type a little.) |
| 20:21 |
|
kados |
:) |
| 20:43 |
|
hdl |
kados: yuipath sent. |
| 20:45 |
|
kados |
hdl: receied, thanks |
| 20:45 |
|
kados |
hdl: all I have is sysprefs change and updatedatabase ... what about the code changes? :-) |
| 20:45 |
|
kados |
oh, nm, found it |
| 20:47 |
|
kados |
hdl: updatedatabase change failes |
| 20:47 |
|
kados |
hdl: so something is still different |
| 20:48 |
|
hdl |
I tried to checkout updatedatabase. |
| 20:48 |
|
kados |
hdl: yea, it's strange, it failes and I can't apply it at all |
| 20:48 |
|
kados |
I can manually do it |
| 20:48 |
|
kados |
but it will probably cause you problems |
| 20:48 |
|
hdl |
But it still added some lines. |
| 20:48 |
|
kados |
I will manually apply |
| 20:50 |
|
kados |
hdl: now would be a good time |
| 20:50 |
|
kados |
hdl: I've just pushed up 083 |
| 20:51 |
|
kados |
hdl: I manually added the updatedatabase |
| 20:51 |
|
kados |
and made a new commit |
| 20:53 |
|
kados |
odd |
| 20:56 |
|
hdl |
I will get a brand new clone |
| 20:57 |
|
kados |
that's my solution :-) |
| 20:59 |
|
hdl |
Can you add manually the RenewalAddsSuggestion to updatedatabase.pl ? |
| 21:00 |
|
kados |
hdl: sure ... can you send me the patch without the updatedatabase part? |
| 21:00 |
|
kados |
I"ll be back later |
| 21:00 |
|
hdl |
already done. |
| 21:00 |
|
hdl |
OK. |
| 21:00 |
|
hdl |
have a nice flight |
| 21:08 |
|
chris |
morning |
| 21:10 |
|
gmcharlt |
hi chris |
| 21:13 |
|
gmcharlt |
ouch |
| 21:13 |
|
gmcharlt |
to a good purpose, I hope |
| 21:13 |
|
chris |
yeah, flu immunisation |
| 21:16 |
|
chris |
bbiab |
| 21:20 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: got a moment for a question? |
| 11:50 |
|
slef |
hi all |
| 11:51 |
|
slef |
should I put developer personal blogs onto the koha blogs page, or just their koha topics? |
| 11:54 |
|
nengard |
hiya slef - i've seen organizations do it both ways - i'd say if the developer is talking about developing at least some of the time it should be on the page ... but if all they talk about is movies or something unrelated I might not include it |
| 11:58 |
|
slef |
nengard: it's a frequent source of debate, on planet.debian.org in particular |
| 11:58 |
|
nengard |
slef yeah - i imagine it would be |
