| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 13:46 |
|
hdl |
hi america |
| 13:46 |
|
hdl |
nengard are you around ? |
| 13:48 |
|
nengard |
hdl i am now |
| 13:49 |
|
nengard |
hdl i can't do private messages :( i'm trying to figure that out - i've lost my password - will open skype |
| 14:04 |
|
hdl |
kados : |
| 14:04 |
|
hdl |
Should I send a message on the lists to announce the new lists ? |
| 14:05 |
|
hdl |
kados_ : |
| 14:12 |
|
hdl |
hi gmcharlt |
| 14:12 |
|
gmcharlt |
hi hdl |
| 14:21 |
|
slef |
hi all... how's things? |
| 14:23 |
|
owen |
Hi slef and everyone |
| 14:27 |
|
hdl |
hi slef |
| 14:29 |
|
slef |
do we have a handy guide to zebra care anywhere? Like, how to see if the serials are being indexed... |
| 14:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
hi slef |
| 15:15 |
|
kados_ |
hdl: yes, I think we're ready to switch the lists, they seem to be working just fine |
| 15:15 |
|
kados |
slef: you're asking if Koha indexes serials? |
| 15:16 |
|
kados |
slef: that's a very broad question ... what part of the serial record specifically? to find the answer you'd want to check the record.abs file |
| 15:16 |
|
slef |
if zebra does... I've a catalogue with serials entered but they don't show up in the catalogue search |
| 15:16 |
|
slef |
and they don't show up from yaz-client |
| 15:16 |
|
kados |
slef: zebra just follows what Koha's record.abs tells it to index |
| 15:16 |
|
slef |
I'm using whatever's in 3 beta IIRC |
| 15:16 |
|
kados |
and we need to know aht field specifically |
| 15:17 |
|
kados |
what field I mean |
| 15:17 |
|
kados |
s/field/fields/ |
| 15:17 |
|
hdl |
slef, kados : serials are now stored only in tables, as far as i know. |
| 15:17 |
|
slef |
well, searched for 942$c being SER, which seems to be how to spot a serial |
| 15:17 |
|
hdl |
So zebra has no knowledge of it. |
| 15:18 |
|
slef |
hdl: so how are old stocks acquired into the collection? |
| 15:18 |
|
slef |
hdl: as we can't simply Add Item them |
| 15:18 |
|
kados |
hdl: it has knowledge of the bib record for a serial |
| 15:18 |
|
hdl |
Am I misunderstandng ? |
| 15:18 |
|
kados |
just not the planning data |
| 15:19 |
|
slef |
kados: this zebra doesn't seem to have knowledge of the bib record for some reason... can I TCP to liblime's demo's zebra? |
| 15:19 |
|
hdl |
is serialseq stored in marcrecord ? |
| 15:19 |
|
kados |
slef: yup ... running on port 9998/biblios |
| 15:19 |
|
kados |
slef: use SRU if you like: opac.liblime.com:9998/biblios |
| 15:20 |
|
kados |
slef: have you indexed the bib records? |
| 15:20 |
|
slef |
rebuild_zebra.pl is cronned |
| 15:20 |
|
slef |
because zebradaemon_queue.pl fails noisily |
| 15:20 |
|
slef |
is there more that must be done? Other bibs show in search results |
| 15:22 |
|
slef |
Search was a success. |
| 15:22 |
|
slef |
Number of hits: 100, setno 2 |
| 15:22 |
|
kados |
no, sounds lie your'e doing it |
| 15:22 |
|
slef |
so opac.liblime.com is happily indexing SERs |
| 15:22 |
|
slef |
(query was f @attr 1=/record/datafield[@tag="942"]/subfield[@code="c"] SER if anyone wants it) |
| 15:24 |
|
slef |
kados: does opac.ll.c run with record.abs as shipped in 3beta? |
| 15:24 |
|
kados |
slef: yup |
| 15:24 |
|
kados |
hdl: can you start by moving koha-infos? |
| 15:24 |
|
slef |
but zebraqueue_daemon.pl? |
| 15:24 |
|
kados |
hdl: and perhaps change the name to Koha-French ? |
| 15:24 |
|
slef |
I'm currently wondering whether rebuild_zebra.pl transfers SERs properly. |
| 15:25 |
|
kados |
slef: yea, it should be fine |
| 15:25 |
|
slef |
kados: French isn't french for french. |
| 15:25 |
|
kados |
slef: yea, I'm following debian conventions |
| 15:25 |
|
kados |
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/subscribe |
| 15:25 |
|
slef |
kados: debian sucks at mailing lists, news at 11 |
| 15:25 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 15:26 |
|
kados |
slef: so what, we use RFC4646 codes? |
| 15:26 |
|
kados |
koha-fr-FR ? |
| 15:26 |
|
slef |
ISO-3106 or whatever it is... koha-fr? |
| 15:26 |
|
kados |
last time I checked, only latin characters were allowed in email |
| 15:26 |
|
slef |
Isn't the spanish already koha-es? |
| 15:27 |
|
kados |
slef: what do we do when a canadian group wants to create a french list? |
| 15:28 |
|
hdl |
kados ???? |
| 15:28 |
|
slef |
kados: tell 'em to stop being so silly and use the french one ;-) |
| 15:28 |
|
slef |
kados: or have koha-fr-... lists |
| 15:28 |
|
hdl |
start by moving koha-infos ? |
| 15:29 |
|
slef |
or koha-...-fr if you want to mimic debianisms |
| 15:29 |
|
hdl |
infos on koha-fr.org is not a problem for you. |
| 15:30 |
|
hdl |
I thought of all the savannah lists move. |
| 15:31 |
|
kados |
hdl: my understanding was the goal was to move all koha lists to lists.koha.org, right? |
| 15:31 |
|
kados |
hdl: can't we start with koha-infos to test the migration? It should be easiest since you and paul manage that one |
| 15:31 |
|
kados |
hdl: and perhaps re-name it koha-fr lists.koha.org as slef recomends? |
| 15:32 |
|
kados |
since it's a french koha user list? |
| 15:32 |
|
kados |
then we can move koha-*@nongnu.org soon thereafter |
| 15:32 |
|
kados |
hdl: does that make sense? |
| 15:33 |
|
hdl |
kados: my understanding was different. |
| 15:33 |
|
hdl |
first problem was savannah. |
| 15:33 |
|
hdl |
and not koha-fr. |
| 15:34 |
|
kados |
*shrug* ... it doesn't matter much to me |
| 15:34 |
|
hdl |
not to me either. |
| 15:35 |
|
hdl |
But I am much prepared to change savannah's list than french lists who are already on the same server |
| 15:36 |
|
kados |
OK |
| 15:36 |
|
kados |
go for it |
| 15:36 |
|
kados |
hdl: if you want me to proofread your announcement let me know |
| 15:36 |
|
kados |
hdl: (for English readers) |
| 15:36 |
|
hdl |
OK. |
| 15:36 |
|
kados |
mornin fbcit |
| 15:37 |
|
fbcit |
man, the gang's all here :) |
| 15:37 |
|
kados |
heh |
| 15:37 |
|
fbcit |
hi kados, koha |
| 15:47 |
|
gmcharlt |
hi fbcit |
| 15:58 |
|
hdl |
kados: message sent. |
| 16:18 |
|
kados |
hdl: response sent |
| 16:18 |
|
kados |
hdl++ |
| 16:21 |
|
kados |
hdl: so you can also redirect all mail from koha-*@nongnu.org to koha-*@lists.koha.org ? |
| 16:41 |
|
hdl |
i think so. |
| 17:04 |
|
kados |
hdl: how can we find out for sure? |
| 17:05 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 17:14 |
|
hdl |
not sure to be able to do that clean. |
| 17:15 |
|
kados |
bummer |
| 17:15 |
|
kados |
hdl: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum92/3366.htm |
| 17:16 |
|
kados |
maybe we don't have access to mailman.conf? |
| 17:16 |
|
kados |
but maybe savannah guys will help us out? |
| 17:20 |
|
hdl |
It is for redirecting lists/mailman/listinfo into mailman.lists.org |
| 17:22 |
|
kados |
hdl: can't you use the .forward file? |
| 17:22 |
|
hdl |
on savannah ? |
| 17:23 |
|
hdl |
we donot have ssh access |
| 17:23 |
|
kados |
maybe the savannah guys will help? |
| 17:23 |
|
kados |
we also need to update koha.org to show the new list info |
| 17:24 |
|
kados |
and nabble.com, etc. |
| 17:41 |
|
slef |
savannah-hackers should help I think |
| 17:41 |
|
slef |
also, can you keep the list-id when the lists move, or is mailman still dumb like that? |
| 17:42 |
|
kados |
hdl: I'm guessing that's another qeustion for savannah-hackers |
| 17:43 |
|
kados |
I've found #savannah on freenode to be helpful at times too |
| 17:54 |
|
atz |
how is koha/zebra handling boolean searches? |
| 17:56 |
|
atz |
my impression is that it isn't currently structuring, say: money AND love |
| 17:56 |
|
atz |
into a boolean conjunction |
| 18:00 |
|
kados |
atz: q=money&op=and&q=love |
| 18:01 |
|
atz |
but there is no OPAC construction for that? perhaps only adv. search? |
| 18:01 |
|
kados |
adv search should do it |
| 18:01 |
|
kados |
money+love should work too |
| 18:02 |
|
kados |
atz: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]pl?q=money%2Blove |
| 18:02 |
|
kados |
atz: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]?q=money+and+love |
| 18:02 |
|
kados |
atz: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]ney&op=and&q=love |
| 18:02 |
|
atz |
adv. search builds a more complex query, but equiv: opac-search.pl?idx=kw&q=murder&idx=kw&q=love&idx=kw&sort_by=relevance&do=OK |
| 18:02 |
|
kados |
atz: comparing those results should answer it |
| 18:04 |
|
atz |
thx |
| 18:04 |
|
kados |
it's a very reasonable question |
| 18:05 |
|
atz |
i notice that the 3rd link doesn't reproduce the "display" version of the query |
| 18:05 |
|
atz |
(the slot up top is blank) |
| 18:08 |
|
atz |
and the op symbol for "OR" is pipe? |
| 18:12 |
|
kados |
atz: it's OR or alternatively pipe |
| 18:12 |
|
kados |
op=or |
| 18:12 |
|
kados |
shoudl work |
| 18:12 |
|
kados |
really, the user-facing query language needs some peer review |
| 18:12 |
|
kados |
I spent a lot of time worrying about it :=) |
| 18:13 |
|
atz |
the results are pretty good from zebra even if not functionally boolean |
| 18:14 |
|
atz |
the query structure there doesn't really jive, either |
| 18:14 |
|
kados |
actually, zebra queries are perfect CCL or CQL |
| 18:14 |
|
atz |
idx=kw can't reliably be "paired" to the q terms |
| 18:15 |
|
kados |
I didn't have time to write a real query parser |
| 18:15 |
|
kados |
a bit beyond my puny skills at the moment |
| 18:15 |
|
atz |
sorry, I mean the HTTP request form of the query |
| 18:15 |
|
kados |
though I did my best to read the Dragon book and understand recursion and compilers in general :-) |
| 18:15 |
|
atz |
it relies on parameter order, which is not guaranteed by spec. |
| 18:16 |
|
kados |
ahh, when i researched it, I think CGI does enforce the parameter order |
| 18:16 |
|
atz |
the browser does not! |
| 18:16 |
|
atz |
(though most are somewhat reasonable) |
| 18:18 |
|
atz |
opac-search.pl?idx=kw&idx=kw&idx=kw&q=murder&q=love&sort_by=relevance&do=OK |
| 18:18 |
|
kados |
ahh, I see |
| 18:18 |
|
atz |
^^ legitimate browser formulation of above query |
| 18:18 |
|
kados |
yea, that doesn't matter |
| 18:18 |
|
kados |
koha matches up the queries |
| 18:18 |
|
kados |
first idx is matched to the first q, etc. |
| 18:19 |
|
kados |
doesn't matter what order you send them in |
| 18:19 |
|
kados |
make sense? |
| 18:19 |
|
kados |
obviously the operators are offset by one |
| 18:20 |
|
atz |
no... they are params w/ the same name, so Koha gets them as an array |
| 18:20 |
|
atz |
the order of elements in that array is determined by the browser's implmentation, not Koha |
| 18:20 |
|
kados |
I don't know how to explain it in English |
| 18:20 |
|
kados |
go check the code |
| 18:20 |
|
kados |
it works |
| 18:20 |
|
atz |
it works b/c of non-spec browser-dependent behavior |
| 18:20 |
|
kados |
nope |
| 18:21 |
|
kados |
:) |
| 18:21 |
|
kados |
it works because it keeps track of each array and matches up each query phrase |
| 18:21 |
|
kados |
regardless of the order |
| 18:22 |
|
atz |
all that the server gets is the browser request |
| 18:22 |
|
kados |
atz: give me an example of a query CGI that doesn't work |
| 18:23 |
|
atz |
FF 2 does a GET for this URL, based on adv. search form: |
| 18:23 |
|
atz |
http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]y=relevance&do=OK |
| 18:24 |
|
kados |
yep, and that will work just fine |
| 18:24 |
|
atz |
now, in a min. I'll produce a VALID HTTP request based on the same form that will break |
| 18:24 |
|
kados |
go for it |
| 18:28 |
|
kados |
atz: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]y=relevance&do=OK |
| 18:28 |
|
kados |
atz: is what I think you were hoping would trip it up ;-) |
| 18:28 |
|
atz |
interesting... not the same results though |
| 18:28 |
|
kados |
identical for me |
| 18:29 |
|
atz |
http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]ance&do=OK&q=love |
| 18:30 |
|
kados |
there you're asking for an author,word list like 'love' |
| 18:30 |
|
kados |
ie, you've re-ordered the idx array, which woudln't ever happen |
| 18:30 |
|
atz |
again, my point is that the spec doesn't guarantee the order of params from froms |
| 18:31 |
|
kados |
yea, and it does actually |
| 18:31 |
|
kados |
specifically if they are named the same, they come back as an ordered array |
| 18:31 |
|
atz |
i'll check |
| 18:33 |
|
indradg |
kados, around? |
| 18:34 |
|
kados |
atz: http://search.cpan.org/dist/CG[…]R_LIST_AS_A_HASH: |
| 18:34 |
|
kados |
atz: is what we use to fetch the list |
| 18:34 |
|
kados |
hey indradg ! |
| 18:34 |
|
kados |
indradg: it's been a while! |
| 18:35 |
|
indradg |
kados, thats for sure! |
| 18:35 |
|
indradg |
kados, did some people from an organisation called Akshara, from India try to get in touch with you? |
| 18:36 |
|
kados |
it's possible, we are swamped with US work at the moment |
| 19:08 |
|
atz |
kados: you are right |
| 19:18 |
|
kados |
not_having_to_rewrite_koha's_searching++ |
| 19:37 |
|
atz |
reference: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms#h-17.13.3.3 |
| 19:38 |
|
atz |
"The control names/values are listed in the order they appear in the document." |
| 20:01 |
|
hdl |
kados : /me asking savannah guys. |
| 20:07 |
|
hdl |
atz : do you know who subscribed kohalists on nabble.com ? |
| 20:08 |
|
atz |
hdl: no |
| 20:18 |
|
hdl |
atz : thanks. |
