IRC log for #koha, 2008-02-15

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
11:16 CGI928 hi
11:16 CGI928 is anybody there
13:55 owen Hi johnb
13:59 johnb Hi owen, just trying out my new computer
14:00 johnb Yeah, they do smell nice and the keyboard just feel different
14:02 soul9 re
14:59 fbcit g'morning koha
15:03 qiqo hey guys
15:04 qiqo having some problem here
15:04 qiqo anyone who can assist?
15:04 qiqo ive already migrated the database to zebra
15:04 qiqo when i search the opac nothing shows up
15:06 hdl zebrazrv is launched ?
15:06 hdl datas are indexed in zebra ?
15:06 qiqo yeah
15:07 qiqo zebrazrv is already a daemon
15:08 qiqo already exported data in 2.2 to 3.0
15:09 qiqo
15:09 qiqo try searching for islam
15:13 qiqo ok ill try to restart my server
15:14 hdl qiqo: is there no zebra log ?
15:14 qiqo hold on ill check
15:15 qiqo where do yo usually have the logs?
15:20 gmcharlt qiqo: if you did the install in "standard" mode, it would be in /var/log/koha
15:20 qiqo yeah i saw it
15:20 qiqo hold on
15:21 qiqo nothing on the logs
15:21 qiqo zebraqueue, daemon, errors etc
15:22 qiqo ohh i see something
15:22 qiqo DBD::mysql::db koha.systempreferencsces doesnt exist
15:24 qiqo ill put it on pastebin
15:24 gmcharlt ok
15:25 qiqo
15:25 qiqo seems to be missing tables
15:25 qiqo i just followed the instructions on kohadocumentations 22_to_30
15:27 gmcharlt qiqo: are you able to log in to the staff intranet?
15:27 qiqo yeah
15:27 qiqo everything seems to be good
15:27 qiqo except searching
15:27 gmcharlt I wonder if there might be two copies of $KOHA_CONF / koha-conf.xml running around
15:28 qiqo should only be one
15:28 gmcharlt with the zebraqueue daemon picking up the wrong
15:28 gmcharlt one
15:28 qiqo uhuh
15:28 qiqo how do i check on that?
15:29 qiqo tried echo #KOHA_CONF nothing is there
15:29 gmcharlt if you started zebraquue by running /etc/init.d/, take a look at it
15:30 gmcharlt and make sure that where it sets KOHA_CONF in the script, that it's pointed to the right koha-conf.xml
15:30 gmcharlt which should be the same koha-conf.xml referenced in the Apache config for your Koha virtual hosts
15:31 qiqo no /etc/init.d/ just koha-zebraqueue-daemon
15:32 gmcharlt sorry; yes, that's the right script
15:32 qiqo oh ok
15:33 qiqo wait ill just restart my server just to check if zebra is properly starting
15:33 gmcharlt ok
15:34 qiqo so when do we expect for the beta realease of 3.0?
15:35 gmcharlt hopefully this weekend or early next week kados will announce it
15:35 qiqo wow
15:35 qiqo that's cool.  a lot of bugs have been fixed
15:36 qiqo well just bought a dell server for a decent price
15:36 gmcharlt cool -- what specs?
15:37 qiqo well it's refurbished, 2 XEON processors running at 2.0GHz
15:37 qiqo 2GB ECC RAM
15:37 qiqo 2 redundant powersupply
15:37 qiqo 1 tape backup
15:38 qiqo 4 SCSI hdds.
15:38 qiqo pretty decent.. looks new
15:39 gmcharlt good
15:39 qiqo $400..
15:40 gmcharlt seriously only $400?
15:40 qiqo yep..
15:40 qiqo hehe
15:40 gmcharlt cool
15:40 qiqo it's a poweredge 2600
15:44 qiqo aww still not working
15:44 gmcharlt do /var/run/koha/zebradb and /var/lock/koha/zebradb exist (known issue on some platforms that I'm writing a patch for as we speak)
15:45 qiqo im running debian etch
15:45 qiqo wait ill check
15:45 qiqo yup they exist
15:47 gmcharlt we can try using yaz-client to see if the Zebra database is accepting searches
15:47 qiqo oh ok
15:48 gmcharlt so
15:48 gmcharlt 1. yaz-client
15:48 gmcharlt 2. open unix:/var/run/koha/zebradb/bibliosocket
15:48 gmcharlt 3. base biblios
15:48 qiqo uhuh
15:48 qiqo ok hold on..
15:55 qiqo
15:56 gmcharlt looks ok so far
15:56 gmcharlt do a 'find the' (or whatever a common word might be in your database
15:56 gmcharlt and see if it returns any hits
15:57 qiqo number of hits 0
15:57 hdl you should index your data.
15:57 qiqo uhuh
15:58 gmcharlt yeah -- /usr/share/koha/bin/migrat​ion_tools/  -b -r
15:58 hdl first : move marc to bblioitems.
15:58 qiqo oh ok
15:58 hdl then
15:58 hdl what gmcharlt said.
15:59 gmcharlt reindexing was in the 22_to_30 instructions under the 'Zebra/NoZebra stuff' heading, so make sure you've done everything else up to that point
16:00 qiqo hmm
16:00 qiqo ok
16:01 qiqo this one?
16:01 gmcharlt yes
16:02 qiqo hmm ive done all of those things, step by step
16:03 gmcharlt ok, then let's try the rebuild_zebra again and see the results
16:03 qiqo still nothing
16:04 gmcharlt did it not produce any output at all?
16:04 qiqo yup
16:09 qiqo you have vnc viewer?
16:10 qiqo i can portforward my vnc server
16:11 gmcharlt just a moment, let me get a VNC client installed
16:12 gmcharlt qiqo: ready
16:13 qiqo ok
16:15 qiqo just tell me when youre on it
16:16 gmcharlt ok, i'm in
16:16 qiqo cool
16:17 gmcharlt ok, let me check your koha-conf.xml and zebra directories first
16:17 qiqo aryt
16:18 qiqo thank you very much
16:20 gmcharlt looks like index exists but did not really get created
16:20 gmcharlt next I'm going to switch to the koha user and check your MySQL database to ensure bibliositems.marcxml exists
16:21 qiqo ok
16:22 qiqo vnc is really cool
16:22 qiqo hehe
16:22 gmcharlt ok, database looks ok so far
16:22 gmcharlt now I'm going to try indexing
16:23 qiqo aryt
16:23 qiqo ohh
16:25 gmcharlt ok, looks like some zebra directories were created as root -- I'm going to chown koha:koha on the appropriate ones
16:25 qiqo ahh ok
16:28 gmcharlt are you using UNIMARC or MARC21?
16:28 qiqo MARC21
16:28 qiqo for the Philippines
16:29 gmcharlt ok, looks like biblionumber and biblioitemnumber are still stored in 090 instead of 999 in your DB
16:30 qiqo hmm
16:30 gmcharlt it's ok, I  can make a quick update to your index config
16:30 qiqo ok thank you
16:32 gmcharlt ok, that's better
16:32 qiqo cool
16:32 qiqo hehe
16:32 gmcharlt let me try the yaz search now
16:33 qiqo ohh
16:33 qiqo i think i removed the zebra daemon
16:33 qiqo let's try to run it first
16:34 gmcharlt gotcha
16:34 qiqo yup it's not running
16:34 qiqo hehe
16:34 qiqo i actually removed them a while ago
16:35 qiqo sorry. :(
16:35 gmcharlt no problem -- script actually resides elsewhere -- the /etc/init.d/ versions are only symlinks
16:36 qiqo yeah
16:36 qiqo omg it's running
16:36 qiqo OMG
16:36 qiqo thank you very much
16:36 gmcharlt searches working in OPAC now?
16:36 qiqo yeah
16:36 qiqo but..
16:37 qiqo it has the word "frey 50"
16:37 qiqo i actually reported these to bugs.koha
16:37 qiqo also amazon images do not load
16:37 qiqo because if the isbn has a comment in it. it wont ignore it. (i.e. ppk, hardbound)
16:38 gmcharlt ok, well the latter should be easy enough to fix
16:38 qiqo yey!
16:38 qiqo hey thank you very much! i really appreciate the big help gmcharlt
16:39 gmcharlt no problem
16:39 gmcharlt and it looks like the frey50 stuff is just a UNIMARCism that should be easy enough to take out for MARC21
16:39 qiqo so the frey50 thing will just be a minor thing?
16:39 gmcharlt yeah
16:39 gmcharlt should be gone by time 3.0 general release is out
16:40 qiqo uhuh..
16:40 gmcharlt I do think you will need to plan on doing the 2.2 -> 3.0 upgrade again after 3.0 comes out
16:40 gmcharlt 3.0 general release that is
16:40 qiqo yeah i think so..
16:40 qiqo so ill just stick with 2.2 for now
16:40 qiqo need to catalogue 1000 titles hehe
16:41 gmcharlt have fun ;-)
16:41 qiqo anyway i have 4 harddisks
16:41 qiqo so i can just use one for 2.2
16:41 qiqo thank you very much gmcharlt
16:41 gmcharlt and another for Koha 3 in March ;-)
16:41 gmcharlt you're welcome
16:41 qiqo ohh so that's in march..
16:41 qiqo ok..
16:42 qiqo oh btw
16:42 qiqo can you see this
16:42 qiqo it's because the personal name is blank, it was replaced by a date
16:42 qiqo anyway, i already wrote about these in
16:43 gmcharlt yep, I see the bug report -- chris or I will follow up next week
16:43 qiqo aryt thank you very much..
16:44 gmcharlt no prob
16:47 qiqo hmm our university launched its in-house developed ILS
16:47 qiqo i dunno if it's good or what..
16:47 qiqo
16:47 qiqo i still dont trust the programmers..
16:47 qiqo i'll stick with koha. proven working
16:48 gmcharlt did they write it entirely from scratch?
16:48 qiqo dunno.. looks like koha to me
16:49 qiqo well they claim they started from scratch but who's to know
16:49 qiqo quite fast with the opac.. but i think the staff interface quite sux
16:50 gmcharlt yeah, looks like a Java servlets app
16:51 gmcharlt do they intend to open source it? ;-)
16:51 qiqo yeah.. theyve been building that for almost a decade
16:51 qiqo nope
16:51 qiqo i dont think so
16:51 gmcharlt fie on them, then ;-)
16:51 qiqo theyve spent millions on that. they had problems with their programmers
16:52 qiqo hehehe..
16:52 qiqo dunno what will happen next if the system crashed
16:52 qiqo anyway as i have told people here. I am urging our national library to use koha
16:52 qiqo and they are on their testing stage
16:52 qiqo they are hoping for 3.0 also..
16:53 gmcharlt good to hear
16:53 qiqo yeah.. but it really needs a lot of customization
16:53 qiqo currently they are using TLS
16:54 gmcharlt what's TLS?
16:54 qiqo The Library system
16:54 qiqo they are scrapping it
16:55 qiqo ohh it's TLC i think
16:56 gmcharlt ahh, TLC I know about
16:56 gmcharlt yeah, the whole iLib thing looks very similar to Koha, at least from screenhosts from a PowerPoint I found on the net
16:58 qiqo im not suprised
16:58 gmcharlt don't really mind them not using Koha -- it's their choice, after all, but I don't see the point of investing millions in a home-grown ILS nowadays unless you're planning to open-source it (or try to sell it as a proprietary product, I suppose)
16:58 gmcharlt oh well
16:58 qiqo well they want to earn from it
16:58 qiqo hehehe
16:59 qiqo we actualy have 1 million titles, so they wanted to have an ILS
17:00 qiqo are you seeing the ppt presentation of arlante?
17:01 gmcharlt this is the one I saw:[…]cionM.Arlante.ppt , so yeah, Arlante
17:01 qiqo oh ok
17:02 qiqo i think the only thing missing is with amazon's integration
17:57 christine hi!  is anyone here!
17:58 gmcharlt hi christine
17:59 christine wow!  sorry, i've been on the phone
18:00 christine trying to figure this out!
18:00 christine i though IRC was DEAD!!!!
18:00 christine are you going to be at the meeting this afternoon?
18:02 gmcharlt yes
18:02 gmcharlt or at least, I'll be paying some attention to it, since I also have coding to do
18:03 christine right on.  ok.  i'm signing off now... just wanted to make sure i could get in.  (procrastinated and now don't want to download anything!)
18:03 christine maybe talk to you then.  ciao!
18:03 gmcharlt later
19:45 irma Good day all from Sydney (Australia)
19:46 mouk hi irma, good day from holland.
19:47 Deb hi irma
19:48 Deb hi mouk!
19:48 Deb thanks for helping me last evening.
19:48 mouk hello deb. no problem. :)
19:48 irma hi there Deb
19:49 Deb irma, glad you're here!
19:50 Deb slef I hve noidea what you said
19:50 mouk deb: slef is mj "the developer"
19:51 mouk (i think)
19:51 Deb mj intimidates me.
19:51 gmcharlt yep, slef is MJ
19:52 Deb thanks now I know
19:52 Deb yesteday I thought mouk was mj
19:52 irma mouk: How is the translation of Koha in Dutch going?
19:52 mouk this is true. :)
19:52 mouk yesterday my name was mj, (my real initials)
19:52 mouk but I since MJ Ray is so well known here, today I go by 'mouk'
19:53 mouk as far as I know, only a few words are transleted...
19:53 mouk lated
19:54 mouk we are an institute in holland, but we are 100% english-spoken
19:54 mouk irma, interested in a dutch translation? where in the world are you?
19:55 irma mouk: I see. Perhaps if a public library adops Koha, there will be a need for a Dutch translation.
19:55 mouk true.
19:56 Deb we have a few minutes before 2pm cst.  I have a few questions.
19:56 Deb first, this log will be saved right?
19:57 rickw i am saving a copy
19:57 mouk me too...
19:57 rickw i will then put it up on the web somewhere foranyone who wishes to download it
19:57 Deb yes I am too. But I believe the log is saved via #koha as well
19:57 rickw dunno
19:57 Deb gmcharlt do you know?
19:57 Deb Perhaps it doesn't matter.
19:57 mouk there are here:
19:58 gmcharlt mouk++
19:58 Deb thanks mouk++
19:58 Deb still learning the commands.
19:58 Deb rickw thanks for all your help last night.
19:58 rickw then there are idioms to learn sa well
19:58 Deb I wish so many people came to my aid on a regular basis in rl
19:59 rickw LOL ... yeah, we wish!
19:59 Deb ok, according to my computer clock it's 2:01 shall we start?
19:59 mouk it's one minute before, here...
19:59 rickw on commence!
19:59 mouk maybe the time difference...
19:59 rickw 5 seconds to, here
20:00 Deb Thank you all for coming to this virtual KUDOS meeting
20:00 V How many of us are on?
20:00 rickw what does KUDOS stand for?
20:00 rickw attendance is about 24 right now
20:00 Deb I have no idea how many folks are here, but welcome! I know we have people from all over the world! Cool!!!
20:00 rickw here is a list:
20:00 rickw Deb MatthewMetzger V atz chris cm donovan fbcit gmcharlt irma jaron JoRansom kados marla martinmorris masonj
20:00 rickw +mouk nengard newlogbot paul randym rickw ryan saorge_ si slef soul9 thd-away
20:01 Deb KUDOS=Koha Users and Developers of Open Source Software.  
20:01 Deb Joshua Ferrraro of LibLime came up with that name.  Creative, huh?
20:01 rickw (note that some of the nicks on the list are bots)
20:01 irma Joshua++
20:01 rickw Jushua += createive
20:01 Deb However, someone mentioned and I think it was MJRay, that 'free' should be somewhere in the name.
20:01 mouk so, it's not a group that's supposed to be KOHA specific? (koha & Developers of Open Source Software)
20:02 V what's a bot?
20:02 rickw robot
20:02 rickw a piece of software to do something
20:02 rickw should have been AI, but AI has failed ;)
20:02 Deb What do you mean by 'koha'specific?
20:02 V Yes, but...
20:02 JoRansom just for Koha users and developers?
20:02 mouk it's aimed at koha users, right?
20:02 V OK, got it
20:02 rickw i think mouk is pointing out the ambiguity of the conjunction etween "koha" and "developers"
20:03 mouk i read it as: group for koha users, and Developers of Open Source Software
20:03 Deb Did I not say Koha Users and Developers?
20:03 JoRansom so the name doesn't quite mean what we wantg it to mean
20:03 Deb joransom what do you mean?
20:03 christine_santa hi, sorry i'm late.
20:03 rickw ah: Koha Users And Developers
20:03 Deb no prob christine
20:03 JoRansom i read it more as been koha users who use open source software - as in the emphasis is on the other os not on koha
20:04 Deb yes, koha users and koha developers of open source software
20:04 rickw this is already ready getting pythonesque ... anyone for latin?
20:04 Deb Is Kados on here?  He could clarifiy
20:04 V It does sound like it means koha and other open source users
20:04 Deb Or John Brice?
20:04 mouk so I;m guessing it like: group of koha users and koha developers.
20:04 nengard deb:kados is out presenting
20:04 rickw yes. that's it.
20:04 mouk right.
20:04 rickw (i think we all knew that anyway)
20:04 Deb ok, you all make good points.  I will share this with John and Josh, how's that?
20:04 V glad that's settled
20:05 Deb ok.  I have to make an apology.
20:05 mouk good.
20:05 MatthewMetzger V: me, too
20:05 Deb In my email yesterday I stated 'company'
20:05 rickw Deb mentioned one quasi-agenda item: Facebook
20:05 Deb when I should have said 'companies'.
20:05 V How many of us are koha users already?
20:06 christine_santa i am
20:06 Deb There are several companies that support and host Koha, not just one.
20:06 rickw i am
20:06 mouk i am.
20:06 JoRansom i am
20:06 JoRansom horowhenua library trust - NZ
20:06 V Thanks.
20:06 MatthewMetzger our Library is migrating from 2.2.9 to 3.0 apha
20:06 rickw deb: facebook?
20:06 Deb MJRay caught it and mentioned it to me. I'm making a public and formal apology.
20:06 Deb See why I'm intimidated?
20:06 JoRansom thanks Deb.
20:06 rickw deb: don't worry. you'll do fine
20:06 Deb Facebook--yes.  At the moment I'm the only administrator.
20:07 rickw what does that mean?
20:07 Deb Would anyone else be willing to help with this?
20:07 rickw admin of facebook?
20:07 MatthewMetzger rickw: admin of a facebook group?
20:08 Deb admin on the facebook KUDOS group means that I'm the only one who can make changes to the profile and a few other functions.
20:08 Deb Anyone willing to take this on?
20:09 Deb At the moment we have 43 members.  Not bad since the group's been up for less than 90 days.
20:09 irma Deb: Sorry, too busy already.
20:09 V Is the intent of Facebook as the primary source of communication among us?
20:09 Deb That's my issue.  I have 2 huge projects.
20:10 Deb V I don't think so.  At the moment it's the listservs.  The KUDOS and Kapito listservs
20:10 V Why Facebook then?
20:10 JoRansom Kapito = Katipo (for newbies)
20:11 Deb FaceBook is a great social networking tool.  You can invite all the members to a function, mention meeting times. and interact.
20:11 Deb dang it.  typing way too fast.
20:11 JoRansom lol
20:12 Deb Based on the lack of response, no one at this meeting is willing to take it on. so, let's move on.
20:12 irma Deb: Do I read that you would like support with organising this IRC meeting for example?
20:12 Deb irma, not sure what you mean here.  Can you clarify a bit?
20:13 irma Deb: the communication to notify all of time and place...
20:13 mouk i don't see why that cannot be done though the regular mailinglists...
20:13 irma and you might be thinking about emailing the list later today with a summary?
20:13 Deb Well, here's the thing.  And I'm gonna go slow for myself.
20:14 Deb In the email I sent out there are several communication venues.
20:14 Deb website, listserv, facebook and the IRC.
20:15 Deb I don't believe there's a Koha User Group in the U.S. established at the moment.
20:15 Deb ARe there any around the world?
20:15 JoRansom not in NZ
20:15 slef I'm happy to help with the Facebook (I'm on it, wish I wasn't) but I'm non-US.
20:15 slef Deb: there's kohala, based in Paris, not sure if it's France-only
20:15 irma not in Australia (yet)
20:16 Deb so, John Brice and I with LibLime's support and help organized the first KUDOS meeting at ALAMW08.
20:16 JoRansom a facebook admin need not live in US I wouldn't have thought
20:16 MatthewMetzger slef: I closed (deactivated) my facebook account. I recommend free community services. website. listserve. and IRC
20:16 mouk (no group in holland)
20:17 Deb At that meeting, we were not able to get to a point where we could put together an actual users group with a mission statement, bylaws, etc.
20:17 Deb So, we were going to do that at PLA. Which John is intending to do.
20:17 slef MatthewMetzger: I'm playing with NoseRub at ; and deactivating your facebook account means they keep your info - there's a court case pending in England IIRC
20:17 Deb Anyway, I had to drop out because my rl workload increased.
20:17 mouk i know: that's why I'm not going to signup for facebook
20:18 MatthewMetzger slef: I'm glad someone is taking legal action, but to focus on koha business ....
20:18 Deb So, as I stated in the email, we'll let John move ahead with the Planning of the KUDOS user group at PLA.
20:18 custard the silence could also mean were not all convinced of the need to be part of yet another web social-organising thingy (ie facebook).
20:18 Deb omg.  I hadn't heard about the facebook lawsuit.
20:18 mouk custard speaks wisely
20:19 MatthewMetzger custard: does speak wisely
20:19 Deb well, facebook is VERY popular in the states.
20:19 mouk not so much in holland.
20:19 Deb FaceBook is making it popular for businesses as well.
20:19 christine_santa ok folks. sorry i've only lasted 10 minutes.  sounds like i missed the drama.  was a little monte python-esque for a bit.  gotta go.  will read if it's archived. i gotta run.  ciao!
20:19 slef I was at an education conference recently (to be blogged soon) and it seemed FaceBook was popular among them.  And I think OCLCers also liked it.
20:20 Deb All I'm asking with regard to facebook is if someone will be willing to help.
20:20 CGI763 Hi All, I'm logged on thru Koha so name not shown, Susan, I'm willing to help but just started Koha, not live yet.
20:20 slef yes, but I'll stand aside if you find a USer... mail me after
20:20 Deb looks like slef is willing.
20:20 Deb Is that correct?
20:21 Deb I'm not sure about OCLCers.  I haven't looked at their group.
20:21 Deb slef are you willing?
20:22 slef yep
20:22 Deb great thanks.  WE can email off IRC if that's ok with you?
20:22 slef yes
20:22 Deb great.  That's all i had.  Anyone else?
20:22 slef facebook legal woes
20:23 Deb Thanks!
20:23 V I'd prefer not to rely on Facebook for our communications and info.
20:23 irma same with me
20:23 mouk i agree V
20:23 Deb Does everyone else agree with V?
20:23 marla I do.
20:23 Deb ok, sound like it's unanimous.  I'll let John and Josh know.
20:23 JoRansom yep
20:24 Deb The real reason for this meeting is it was one last task that I had from the ALAMW08 organizational meeting.
20:24 slef I think there's a subscription module for wordpress (which powers the current kudos web page) which would let people get announcements by email if they want.
20:24 Deb When I invited people, so many couldn't attend, and many wanted a virtual method for meeting.
20:24 Deb So, how's this working for all of you?
20:25 Deb slef how's that work?
20:25 JoRansom is fine
20:25 marla OK here.
20:26 slef Deb: not sure of specifics - not used it myself yet - I think it would just add a "enter your email address here to receive announcements" box to the side bar on the KUDOS web pages.
20:26 V So far, so good.
20:26 Rosa Ok for me
20:26 Deb would you be willing to check it out and email us via the 2 listservs and we could all try it?
20:26 custard could I put in a vote for about an hour later?
20:26 slef fine with IRC, but time isn't great for England, but that's fine as it's not a group aimed at us ;-)
20:26 slef Deb: 2 listservs?
20:27 Deb yep.  KUDOS and Koha.Katipo something.  Don't have them memorized.
20:27 mouk slef, what england now: 21:00?
20:27 slef mouk: use mj if you want - I'm always slef or something like it on IRC.
20:27 slef Deb: 20:25
20:27 slef oops
20:27 mouk so problem. on msn I'm actually always mouk :)
20:27 slef mouk: 20:25
20:27 mouk thanks anyway
20:27 mouk so=no problem
20:27 custard but then I'm not in the US either, so this isn't realy aimed at me.
20:28 Deb what do you all mean it's 'not aimed at me.'
20:28 slef Deb: I'll try to mail both, but I'm not currently subscribed to the KUDOS one so it might not allow me.
20:28 slef Deb: I thought KUDOS is a US group?
20:28 slef slef: we euros are better off looking to kohala (for tax reasons if nothing else) as I understand it.
20:29 slef slef: you're talking to yourself again.
20:29 slef slef: sorry
20:29 Deb I'm not sure about that.  When Josh and I spoke about it it was world wide. Just a sec.  LEt me go to the wiki.  be right back.
20:29 mouk slef haha
20:29 JoRansom I lik the idea of a worldwide group.
20:30 slef paul_: you there?
20:30 Deb what it says on the wiki is:  This is the beginnings of the ‘Koha Users and Developers of Open Source’ Group (Acronym ‘KUDOS’–a working title–suggestions welcome!
20:30 Deb The user group is being created for Koha users worldwide.
20:30 slef argh
20:30 JoRansom and it doesn't preclude related groups, like the French users group
20:30 custard I do to, but it does mean that some of us are going to loose out time wise,
20:30 Deb I don't know.  I don't have answer for that.
20:30 custard s/to/too
20:31 Deb Perhaps this conversation needs to include both John and Joshua.
20:31 slef I'd really love a more inclusive, less USian name, then.
20:31 slef probably, but I'm sure we've discussed it in the past... I'll see if the logger has it
20:31 Deb Something told me you would slef;)
20:32 Deb I'm not here to make any decisions.  I'm simply providing a virtual meeting venue.
20:33 Deb I'm also not really organizing anything at the moment.
20:33 Rosa There is an email on the Koha lisserv this morning from someone in Kenya, looking for other KOha users to share with.
20:33 Deb Yes I saw that.
20:34 Rosa And I'm aware there are a number of other libraries using Koha in southern Africa. So I think we should ne trying to be as inclusive as possible
20:35 rickw one thing i would like to reaise with developers: the need for automted release testings
20:35 Deb So, what I'm hearing is that you all would like a worldwide Koha Users Group.  IS this correct?
20:35 V Someone, please remind me how to get to the Koha lisserv?
20:35 Deb But doesn't France have one?
20:35 slef V: from memory
20:35 V Thanks.
20:35 rickw e.g. when you get ready to install a Perl module: make t est <=== do this step first and the see if the module works
20:36 rickw Koha software needs similar
20:36 slef rickw: tests have started appearing, but post-install ones so far, as most of C4 needs the database configured
20:36 mouk i think IF there is a group, it should be worldwide, yes.
20:36 rickw self: yes, I do mean post install
20:37 rickw so, not exactly like perl
20:37 Deb Ok, let me give you a bit of history about how this came about.
20:37 slef rickw: ok, cool, it's underway ;-)
20:37 Deb I chair a users group for III software.
20:37 rickw anyone know why the name C4 ?
20:37 Deb III has a worldwide users group. So do other proprietary ILS vendors.
20:37 slef rickw: it's rumoured that it used to be explosively unstable.
20:38 rickw and is C4 an explosive?
20:38 mouk :)
20:38 slef rickw: yep. Go watch Die Hard.
20:38 Deb Here's how ours works. There's a worldwide group that has a mission, bylaws, it's nonprofit, all of that.
20:38 rickw uhg
20:38 Deb Then there are regional users groups, like mine.  None of the users groups have
20:39 Deb any affiliation with the III company per se.
20:39 Deb The regional user groups meet 2x a year and the worldwide group meets 1x per year.
20:39 Deb Our yearly meeting this year is in April in Washington D.C.
20:39 Deb There I will meet III users from all over the world.
20:40 V What is III?
20:40 Deb EAch user group has members, a dues structure, and generally charge a registration fee for meetings.
20:41 Deb Joshua was invited to one of our regional meetings and saw how it was organized and set up.
20:41 diana As in Triple III?
20:41 Deb Thought it would be a good idea to create a Koha Users group.
20:41 JoRansom Deb: what is it that the users group sets out to achieve: goals etc?
20:41 rosalie the reason for C4 is in the mists of time. It stood for a Cheap and Cheerful Copy of Catalist, which was the ILS Horowhenua Library Trust was using when we decided to develop Koha
20:41 rickw thx rosalie
20:42 Deb John Brice and I volunteered to create the group, but it didn't happen at ALAMW08, so he's going to have a meeting at PLA.
20:42 Deb with me so far?
20:42 rickw diana: you mean IIIIIIIII?
20:42 Deb diana yes IIIIIIIII
20:42 JoRansom DEb: yes
20:42 slef rosalie: thanks!
20:42 Deb sorry.  typing and not reading
20:43 Deb joransom the user group sets out to provide training and expertise in areas the members want.
20:43 mouk no problem deb, i'm doing quite the opposite
20:43 rosalie that's one good purpose
20:43 randym Deb: how does KUDOS relate to the Koha Interest Groups[…]ohainterestgroups ?
20:43 Deb So, for example, the catalogers want to know more about how to migrate records into III from OCLC some member may say they'll do a presentation on that.
20:44 JoRansom cool. Is the group aiming to help shape development of Koha? ie communicating to the developers what we as users want and need?
20:45 JoRansom and how it should work and why we may want a range of options sometimes to solve a problem?
20:45 Deb The reason Joshua was invited was due to the fact so many III libraries began looking at the next generation ILS, heard about Open Source and wanted to know more
20:45 JoRansom and a 3rd reason maybe, to co-fund significant development which we could all benefit from
20:45 diana Josh did an excellent presentation here in Lawrence, Ks for us yesterday
20:45 diana 3.0 is a great improvement over 2.2
20:45 Deb The steering committee (each user group has a steering commitee made up of a secretary, treasurer, member at large, chair and a chair-elect)
20:46 Deb Based on the feedback from members (we always have the members do a feedback form after every conference) they wanted to know more about open source.  
20:46 Deb We invited LibLime and Joshua came.  
20:47 rosalie i don't see that preaching about open source is the main purpose of this group
20:47 irma LibLime++++
20:47 Deb The next meeting we invited someone using or migrating to Koha, so John STromquist came from WALDO.
20:47 rosalie It's good to do (and I do it) but this group should be people who use Koha
20:47 rosalie and want to share experience and plan together
20:48 V Yes.
20:48 Deb rosalie as opposed to?
20:48 rosalie preaching about open source
20:48 JoRansom and we need to balance the developer-user relationship in the development of koha
20:48 slef I'm also a little bit mixed emotions if a (presumably tax-exempt) user group is going to compete with the koha development companies by providing training and charging fees.
20:48 irma Not working in silos here and there but with increased collaboration. We are all so short of time.
20:49 Deb slef you bring up a good point and this is where John Brice and Joshua could help.
20:49 Deb I'm not the person at the moment to help organize the Koha User group for the following reasons.
20:49 Deb a. I'm preaching about OS.
20:49 Deb b. I'm a Koha user only part time.
20:50 Deb Our libraries have not and may never migrate to Koha.
20:50 Deb Having said that, I will continue to learn to use Koha.
20:50 Deb Will I be excluded from the group then?
20:51 mouk haha, i guess not. :)
20:51 mouk I'm not a koha user myself, I've inly installed it here. :)
20:51 V Many here are only thinking of using Koha, I think. Isn't that right?
20:51 JoRansom I could see the user group deciding on a set of enhancements and then commssioning one of the Koha support compnaies to do the work. Might be Limlime, might be someone in France or anywhere...
20:52 slef I don't see why.  As I understand it, you could in theory join kohala today, but I can't remember whether I've translated their rules into English.
20:52 Deb joransom yes, this is something that John Brice brought up.  I wish he were here.
20:52 CGI763 we are migrating- hope to by live mid-April
20:52 mouk JoRansom: that is a very good idea.
20:52 slef JoRansom: if koha users want to form a consumer cooperative, I'd welcome that and offer what assistance I could.
20:52 mouk (not that i have any specific requests)
20:52 JoRansom But, and its a big but, we would need a strong well organised user group
20:53 Deb a consumer cooperative is different that a user group
20:53 slef CGI763: if you type /nick yourrealname (replacing yourrealname with something like your name) you should be more memorable
20:53 Deb I'm willing to help organize a user group, but a. Idon't want to do it alone.
20:53 Deb b. would you want me to? Knowing how I use Koha?
20:54 Susan thanks!
20:55 slef Deb: need consumer cooperatives be different to user groups, except that they're typically more democratic and active economic participants? ;-)
20:55 slef Susan: no problem.
20:55 slef Deb: questions for a wider audience, perhaps.
20:55 Deb slef here's my understanding of the difference: the cooperatives would be
20:56 Deb driven and attended more by developers, while the user group focuses on staff librarians and their issues.
20:56 Deb Doesn't have to be that way.  You don't have to use an existing model.
20:56 Deb My brain is flexible.
20:57 JoRansom I quite liked that Koha was driven by librarians - and the developers made it
20:57 diana user groups share best practices
20:57 slef erm, developer cooperatives (like aka would be developer-driven, but they probably couldn't take a large role in user cooperatives
20:57 V Are there two Debs online?
20:57 Deb joransom not sure what you mean by your comment. Can you expand?
20:57 JoRansom I would be sad to see librarians once again in a position where we have to accept what developers give us
20:57 custard so what lnks between them?
20:58 Deb no, just one Deb.  
20:58 JoRansom as we are so often with turnkey systems
20:58 Deb custard lost the thread.  What are you commenting on?
20:58 custard One of the thinks I liked the sound of about koha was that there appeared to be pretty good links between users and developers.
20:58 slef JoRansom: I'm not sure that can ever happen with koha, with multiple developers and low barriers to entry
20:58 custard the UG/Co-op comments
20:59 Deb custard who are the 'users?'
20:59 slef custard: yeah. We're not software barons. We can't dictate to users.
20:59 Deb ARe they librarians or technical people?
20:59 JoRansom Koha was a marriage between librarians who could describve what we wanted and developers who could take those words and make a system that achieved what we wanted and needed.
20:59 cm hey, some of us are librarians *and* technical.  ;)
20:59 Deb joransom gottcha
20:59 JoRansom making suggestions for cool ways to achieve things.
20:59 slef cm++
21:00 rosalie ?
21:00 Deb cm me too.  didn't mean anything negative
21:00 cm i know.  just ribbing!
21:00 Deb rosalie what's your question?
21:00 JustSomeGuy Sorry I'm so late to the party.  Was there any discussion, by chance, of when the beta 3.0 might be released?
21:00 rickw nope
21:00 rosalie the ++, but I guess it just means I agree?
21:01 JustSomeGuy I've been holding off getting into Koha , assuming I shouldn't get the alpha at this point...
21:01 rickw is see ++ as "double plus good" (see Orwell's 1984)
21:01 slef rosalie: it's an attempt to give karma points to cm, but I think there's no karma bot in here
21:01 Deb well, we're coming up on an hour of this meeting.
21:01 Susan Debra at LibLime mention March for Koha 3 release
21:01 rickw JustSomeGuy: try Koha/2.2.9
21:02 Deb slef has a sense of humor ;-)
21:02 Susan Beta any day
21:02 slef JustSomeGuy: I should be able to make you a tarball of current post-alpha pre-beta 3 if you want to play.  Got 5 minutes?
21:02 Deb Well, we've covered new ground here and it was not my intention to do this.
21:02 slef Deb: slef scares me too.
21:03 rickw deb: did you want to cover old ground instead?
21:03 custard deb: Just for a minute there it sounded  we were talking about a UG (for the librarians) and a co-op for developers and seperation between the two in this situation is bad.
21:03 custard but the conversation seems to have moved on.
21:03 rosalie I agree, custard
21:04 rosalie the seperation needs to be avoided
21:04 slef custard: there's already one co-op for developers, but there are other developers too.  I think there's a slight risk of conflict of interest if the UG becomes too developer-dirven.
21:04 Deb custard I don't have expertise in combining the two.  I only have expertise in organizing user groups.
21:04 rosalie building that bridge should be one of the purposes of this group
21:04 custard slef: does it get past step three of the web installer on darwin?
21:04 rickw self: is the co-op for developers the Koha-Devel list?
21:04 slef custard: NAFAIK
21:05 V yslef, yes, especially for users who are not technical (as I am not)
21:05 slef rickw: is a co-op for developers (not just of koha, for everything)
21:05 irma I like to give an example of how I would turn to KUDOS for help: "LibraryThing  4 libraries" for eample.  I would like to review the library's reasons fro wishing to add it to their OPAC. Later review library patrons' commnent etc.  
21:06 slef rickw: I'd love either more koha developers in it, or other co-ops to get into koha development.
21:06 rickw self: if i ever worked on Koha software, I'd start recording it in python!
21:06 Deb Would other co-ops include other OS ILS developers?
21:06 rickw s/recording/recoding/
21:06 custard What I'm attempting to say is that if you're going down a user focused group, you need links to the developers
21:06 Deb Perhaps I should say 'could'
21:07 slef rickw: do it and I'll replace half your tabs with random numbers of spaces. ;-)
21:07 slef Deb: yes, probably.
21:08 JoRansom (I was hoping you were watching rach)
21:08 rach so if you meet in this sort of forum we can all read back on a meeting, even if we aren't participating
21:08 Deb omg if slef is small fry who's the big guns?
21:08 Deb rach I know.  
21:08 slef rach, kados, paul_
21:08 slef gmcharlt: drinking beer, aren't you?
21:08 diana i like that example irma
21:08 Deb I was just about to suggest we end this meeting and take it off line to the listservs?
21:09 gmcharlt slef: alas, I'm actually working at the moment ;)
21:09 rickw gmcharlt: drink beer *and* do youro work ;)
21:09 irma Diana: thanks and do you have an example?
21:09 slef gmcharlt: does that prevent drinking beer where you work? dull ;-)
21:09 gmcharlt slef: don't want to write my Perl using lots of Javaisms, now, do we :)
21:10 rickw 200 lines of Java == 1 line of perl/python ;)
21:10 irma It's time for me to start real life work...only a few minutes left before I shoot off
21:10 Deb questions:  do you all want to continue this discussion off line?
21:10 cm btw, i'm installing a 'subscribe' box on the wordpress site ( as suggested --almost done.
21:10 V Can't right now.
21:11 rach the koha mailing list is for koha users to both talk/question developers and support each other
21:11 rach so please use it for that, it would be excellent
21:11 Deb Where we could continue the discussion and have time to think about things
21:11 Deb before answering?
21:11 slef cm++
21:11 Deb Or continue or
21:11 Deb meet again on the IRC?
21:11 rach my personal opinion is that if there are in person meetings going on, then they will be regional and should actually "say" they are regional, because who has the budget for international travel?
21:11 JoRansom I support sticking to the established communication channels for the project
21:12 rickw ditto
21:12 Deb joransom what project?
21:12 Deb Is there a project?
21:12 JoRansom prokect = koha project
21:12 JoRansom = koha ..
21:12 Deb what koha project. Have I dropped another thread?
21:12 JoRansom (was our wee project once .. old habits)
21:12 rosalie it's a work in progress
21:12 JoRansom sorry
21:12 rosalie isn't it?
21:13 rach yep it is :-)
21:13 Deb still not sure what project--please clarify...
21:13 atz Deb: the one great Koha project to rule them all.  
21:13 rach the development of the koha software is "a project"
21:13 irma sure is...look at the leaps of the last few months!
21:13 JoRansom go atz!
21:13 Deb so we've left the user group and coop in the dust?
21:14 slef no, it's all part of the project
21:14 rosalie so lets adjourn and think, and send ideas to the Koha list about what this Koha users group could/should be doing
21:14 JoRansom we need a reason for wanting / having a user group.
21:14 rickw we need a manifesto!
21:14 JoRansom what did you want to achieve today Deb?
21:14 rach I really support the idea of people getting together in small focused groups because they have a common interest that might be more than just koha
21:15 Deb not a manifesto, please
21:15 Deb thanks slef
21:15 V Is "Koha list" the same as lisserv?
21:15 rickw V: yes
21:15 rach I mean the same thing yes
21:15 Deb there are two listservs
21:15 V Thanks, rickw
21:15 gmcharlt I vote for three years of ALA-style commitee meetings!
21:15 Deb One is for koha
21:15 rach I think that deb has another list as well
21:15 Deb the other for kudos
21:15 Deb I send to both.
21:15 slef gmcharlt: have you been reading too?
21:15 rickw is there already a KUDOS list?
21:16 gmcharlt slef: yep, constantly
21:16 Deb That way any new kudos listserv folks can get into the conversation
21:16 cm yeah, see for subscription info
21:16 Deb how bout sending to both?
21:16 rach there are 2 koha lists + debs new one, a general koha users list -,
21:16 JoRansom why do we ned 2 lists?
21:16 rickw urgh .. a plethora of lists is dveloping here
21:16 rach and a koha developers lis, plus some language support lists
21:16 Deb yes just a sec.  I'll get the kudos listserv address
21:16 rickw cross-posting and reading multiple lists is a PITA
21:16 JoRansom why do we need 2 lists?
21:16 slef rickw: we need a list to coordinate mailing lists
21:17 Deb KUDOS listserv
21:17 rickw yes@
21:17 rickw and nominate a list co-ordinator co-ordinator.
21:17 JoRansom lets just use the koha list please, please
21:17 rickw welcome to the dept of redundancy dept
21:17 rosalie we need one for developers - the koha develpers list, and one other. No more, please
21:17 slef rach: btw, can the koha list archive be split by month?  The index pages are getting a bit big.
21:17 Deb well, we don't need 2, but they're there.  Some of hte new koha users who are supported by LibLime may use one and not the other and you'd want them to be engaged right?
21:17 rickw i vote for just two lists ... that's enuf!
21:17 rickw we all are prolly on many other lists too, don't forget!
21:17 gmcharlt Deb: one possibility is to start small -- think of KUDOS as just a way to have an umbrella to reserve meeting space at ALA, PLA, IFLA conferences
21:18 JoRansom so really its a Liblime clients list and the koha list?
21:18 gmcharlt I agree that one koha mailing list and one koha-devel list is enough
21:18 atz LibLime can keep its own lists, methinks
21:18 atz (and I work there)
21:18 rach :-)
21:18 Deb gmcharlt I don't undestand your comment.  could you expand?
21:18 rach slef - will go look at archiving
21:18 JoRansom sounds like we are agreed?
21:19 JoRansom koha dev, koha list, liblimes list?
21:19 Deb joransom, can't say for sure.  You guys have gone way beyond the scope of what I sent out.
21:19 gmcharlt I also work there -- I don't think LL was thinking of KUDOS as being a customers of LibLime group -- that would be organized separately, if such a thing is needed in the future
21:19 JoRansom (coz liblime clients may well want their own list outside of the main koha lists)
21:20 rach hmm it says it is monthly
21:20 rosalie so what is the kudos list?
21:20 slef rach: maybe it changed since I last tried - sorry!
21:20 rickw ... and why is it needed on top of the existing [Koha] list?
21:20 slef rach: thanks for looking anyway
21:20 JoRansom exactly?
21:20 gmcharlt Deb: my idea is that since it would be a Good Thing to have Koha users who are going to things like the ALA meeting be able to meet up anyway
21:20 JoRansom sounds superfluos to me ...
21:20 Deb the kudos listserv came about when we organized the first KUDOS meeting.
21:20 slef rickw: koha list tends to be mostly support questions.  kudos would be for event organisation and so on, I think.
21:20 atz i say, use the existing channels until they break or prove unsuitable
21:20 gmcharlt Deb: KUDOS could exist (at least initially) simple as a way to organize such meetings
21:21 slef atz: what you see as "existing" depends on where you stand.
21:21 Deb gmcharlt gottcha.  slow here
21:21 rach if you set up kudos as a "paid for" group, ie where people are paying dues etc, then I can see it would need it's own list to communicate with it's members, and that would likely be a private list
21:21 atz slef:  what, alt.computing isn't good enough for ya?
21:21 rickw if KUDOS is for organising things like meetings, fine. keep the developer requests and support on [Koha] i say
21:22 Deb Ok, I have a few questions.  I'll pass this info onto John and Joshua.
21:22 atz welcome to the party, owen
21:22 gmcharlt Deb: and under that approach, there's no reason why KUDOS activity couldn't be done on the main koha mailing list unless/until it starts generating a lot of traffic (but as rach says, if it becomes something that you have to pay dues for, then a separate list would be a good idea)
21:22 Deb I don't know that I'll be doing any more with organizing the Koha or Kudos users groups
21:23 rickw rach: there are online meetings to organise as well. [Koha] has wokred fine in the past for online orgs
21:23 JoRansom and it should be clearly identified as such.
21:23 gmcharlt Deb: please don't get discouraged, though
21:24 rach yep that's true, which is what I was trying to clarify on list :-)
21:24 JoRansom its alays easier to throw stones than stand on the box!
21:24 Deb I'm not discouraged.  sniff sniff
21:25 Deb joransom don't understand your comment
21:25 Deb apologies all around.  My brain is starting to numb.
21:25 gmcharlt for one thing, I think it is really great that so many people have shown up today to talk (and dodge stones ;) )
21:25 rickw box == soapbox
21:25 Deb it's all slef's fault.
21:25 JoRansom can we summarize anything from this meeting? Things we have identifed that need following up on, that we have agreed on etc?
21:25 rickw i take it that KUDOS at the moment does little more than organise meetings?!?!
21:25 Deb Yes. 1. Use the Koha list to continue this discussion
21:26 rosalie yes
21:26 Deb 2. Do you want a Koha User Group with 2 sections: user group and coop
21:26 JoRansom 3. Clarify what KUDOS is : is it USA only / Lblime only / supplementary to koha list?
21:26 V I have to sign off. Will there be any way for me to get info on continuation?
21:27 Deb v if you tell us who you are?  Or if you're on the koha listserv, right?
21:27 V I mean find out what transpires after I sign off?
21:27 slef cm: is it OK with you if I add the kudos feed to the Koha Community Blogs page?
21:27 rosalie 4. what are the aims of the Koha Users group?
21:27 V Sorry, I'm Vera.
21:27 cm sure slef, fine with me.
21:27 custard v: there's a log of the channel.
21:28 Deb rosalie I think that has yet to be determined
21:28 rach
21:28 JoRansom sure , so another thing we have yet to rsolve.
21:28 Deb Is there anything any of you would like me to do?
21:28 Deb 5. slef will be an admin on Facebook Koha Users Group group
21:29 JoRansom 6. if we decide we want to use facebook.
21:29 JoRansom (I thought there was a pretty unanimouis thumbs down ..?)
21:29 Deb facebook is already there, has members.
21:29 V Thanks, custard and rach.
21:29 JoRansom ok
21:29 slef There's three links at the bottom of with moreinfo about kohala just now.
21:29 Deb You can continue talking about facebook on the listserv
21:30 rosalie Can we ask the Facebook members to join the Koha list?
21:30 Deb Do you want to have another virtual meeting?
21:30 fbcit hehe
21:30 V Facebook has members, but we'd rather not use it.
21:30 Deb yes rosalie we can.
21:30 JoRansom I think so. Maybe a slightly more formal agenda perhaps to struture our discussion?
21:30 custard There is a saying "Cats are people too" :)
21:30 gmcharlt Deb: yeah, IRC is often this -- agree with JoRansom that an agenda helps
21:30 slef Deb: you have to ask people to shut up on here i fyou want.  They can't see the facilitator waving or looking at someone else.
21:31 Deb i have cats!!!!
21:31 custard so do I. And they're being quite vocal about breakfast at the moment.
21:31 V Deb, yes, us!
21:31 irma My interest is spending time on how I can serve the library users better...
21:32 Deb irma what do you mean by 'users?
21:32 V Thank you, irma.
21:32 rosalie Gotta go. Talk to yu on the Koha list
21:32 Deb v what are you saying yes to?
21:32 irma There are so many new Web 2.0 technologies out there, a community to discuss how to addd them to Koha would be great
21:32 slef Deb: we are your cats, according to V
21:32 V We're your cats. :-)
21:32 JoRansom irma: good.
21:32 Deb oh gottcha.
21:32 JoRansom so discussing future developments? enhancements? wish lists?
21:32 irma users: library patrons, members, staff...
21:33 Deb irma there's a great web 2.0 blog thing  I'll send it to you
21:33 JoRansom brianstorming of what could b e with koha?
21:33 Deb joransom sounds great!
21:33 JoRansom developers lifting the general ideas up to a plan for implementation.
21:33 JoRansom a bunch of us pitching to fund it coz we think its good.
21:34 irma exactly!
21:34 Deb yes joransom! That'd be great.  
21:34 JoRansom that is what I would love to see.
21:34 Deb Do you feel we need to go beyond the typical module ILS and expand into
21:34 Deb things that are more google-like?
21:34 JoRansom developers and librarians working together to enhance koha, and a bunch of us funding the work to the development companies
21:34 irma Librarians can be very isolated and yet have patrons with advanced requests to satisfy!
21:35 rach just so you know, people on facebook are directed back to the mailing list
21:35 Deb Yes irma!
21:35 JoRansom I like Irma.
21:35 Deb The mailing list they're directed back to is the Kudos mailing list, not the koha mailing list.
21:35 Deb I don't know if I can add two.
21:35 JoRansom it nneds to be the koha list
21:36 Deb ok
21:36 rach
21:36 rach is the facebook group I'm looking at
21:36 JoRansom which is different to the kudos one?
21:36 custard so at the momment, were still sounding the scope of kudos, yes/no?
21:36 randym rach: this the facebook they are talking about
21:37 slef Best place to discuss Koha is the Koha Mailing List
21:37 slef 2 posts by 2 people. Updated on Nov 21, 2007 at 4:06
21:37 Deb That's not the one.  
21:37 Deb It's this one
21:38 rach
21:38 Deb it's the koha users group
21:38 JoRansom I'm off: faceboiok sounds a confusing mess already!
21:39 Deb only for developers.
21:39 irma is there an established IRC # KUDOS? So instread of going to #koha to ask about Library Thing (for example) I would see if anyone in on the #KUDOS channel?
21:39 irma instread = instead
21:39 Deb no there's no IRC channel for KUDOS.
21:40 irma I see.
21:40 Deb The #koha channel said this channel was available for this meeting.
21:40 rach but it is easy to set up
21:40 Deb I thought of setting up an IRC for KUDOS but the responses were to use this channel.
21:40 irma sure but people can leave the #koha channel and go talk in another room anytime
21:40 slef it's easy to set up forums... the hard part is finding the right one
21:41 Deb And the developers on this channel at that time agreed.
21:41 rach if you type /join #kudos now, you'll join a kudos channel
21:41 Deb if I do that will I still come back here?
21:41 rach this channel is good because it's logged, and we've got the automatic helper things on the website to get people to it
21:42 slef Depends on your IRC software.  It might just open a new tab and you can flip between them.
21:42 rach you can have multiple channels running at the same time
21:42 irma what about the log of both channels? Can they be linked and available to all?
21:42 Deb Yes, the developers said it was not an inconvenience.  
21:42 Deb If they need another channel they would make one.
21:42 rach it's not, they would all want to watch the meeting anyway, so it's no problem to have this here
21:42 Deb I believe it was atz and gmcharlt who said this.
21:42 rach yep
21:43 irma rach: what about the logs?
21:43 Deb why do they want to watch and not participate?
21:43 rach only # koha is automatically logged, if a #kudos was going to be useful then loggin would need to be done
21:43 irma can the log of the KUDOS be like an attachment to the log of #KOHA?
21:43 rach perhaps if they felt there was anything they needed to say they would jump in
21:44 Deb Yes, I looked into creating a KUDOS channel on freenode.
21:44 Deb oh.
21:44 custard because sometimes people set meetings up that will be at 5 in the morning, and most people wouldn't get up for that. that's why you might want to log it.
21:44 rach irma: no they would be 2 seperate logs
21:44 rach the logs don't "finish" they just keep rolling by :-)
21:45 irma Rach: thank you and in my opinion it is best to then only have one channel and one log: the #KOHA.
21:45 rach or they have work/meetings etc that they need to be at
21:45 Deb ok
21:45 irma I must say cheers and thank you. All the best. A bientot!
21:46 Deb You all have been wonderful today.
21:46 Deb Thank you all.  I will share this with John and Joshua.
21:46 V Glad to be here and "meet" one and all.
21:46 custard thanks, for this it's been interesting.
21:46 Deb Hope I talk with all of you again!
21:46 mouk bye bye!
21:46 custard Deb: Thanks, for orgasing.
21:46 Deb Toodles!
21:46 V Bye.
21:46 custard organising.
21:46 Deb no problem
21:46 mouk orgasing?
21:46 gmcharlt Deb++
21:47 Deb thanks gmcharlt
21:47 custard poot. was hoping to ask irma something.
21:47 Deb woot!
21:47 Deb custard you can get irma via email or the list you know
21:47 Deb Well, I'm off. Thanks all.
21:47 custard true.
21:48 slef mouk: stop thinking that.
21:48 mouk haha
21:48 Deb slef you are too fast for me
21:48 Deb I didn't catch that at all until you said something
21:48 mouk well, it's later in the evening here ;)
21:49 slef mouk: that doesn't mean you *have* to watch D:SF
21:49 mouk haha
21:49 Deb slef you'rein the UK right?
21:49 custard ok, so i got caught between wanting to finish a line and wanting to stat another...
21:49 slef Deb: yes.
21:50 Deb where in the UK?
21:50 custard right I'm going to catch a kip before "waking up" for the rest of the day.
21:50 Deb I nearly called you this morning and realized I had no idea what time it was there.
21:50 slef Deb: Somerset, England.
21:50 Deb ohhhh
21:51 Deb pretty
21:51 slef Deb: the other side of the channel from Cardiff (I can see it)
21:51 slef (well, except with all the fog at this time of year)
21:51 Deb I study english lit, poetry, etc.
21:51 Deb and a ton of other stuff too
21:52 Deb well I better go.
21:52 Deb slef I'll email you the facebook info ok?
21:52 slef I'm from near Oxford, so naturally I detest poetry and butcher the language often ;-)
21:52 slef Deb: OK... or spot me in the group members list now.
21:53 rickw thanks to all ... gotta return to meatspace
21:53 Deb I'll find you slef and thanks.
21:53 Deb gotta jet!
21:53 slef nice place.  Much warmer than Cambridge.  thanks. bye
21:54 chris wow .. well that was ... something
21:55 mouk refill wine glass, here :)
22:02 chris dressing the kid
22:10 chris back
22:13 CGI821 quit
22:14 custard yes something indeed.
22:24 chris i notice a message on the koha lists, someone is trying to start a kenyan user group, i think regional/national (like john brice was saying about kudos) is the best way to start
22:24 rach yes i think that being able to meet in person (or at least feel like you could :-) is really valuable
22:26 gmcharlt yeah, and in the states ALA and PLA conferences provide a good excuse for that sort of thing
22:26 rach and you might actually do things - but you need some critical mass I guess, is harder if you're the only one in your region who is using koha
22:26 chris *nod*
22:26 rach has the call for an organised koha users group come from koha users?
22:27 chris it was originally a call for a US users group
22:27 chris and came from john brice, who is a user
22:27 chris but it kinda morphed into this all things for all people
22:28 chris which will never happen :)
22:28 rach yeah that won't work
22:29 chris theres no reason that once its up and running and working well, it couldnt expand .. or that some agreement between say kohala (the french group) and kudos and the kenyans and whoever else
22:29 chris couldnt be worked out and that would be the beginnings of a koha foundation
22:29 rach interesting thought that it's for a developers as well
22:29 rach oh and are you still going to nepal? or has that fallen trhough?
22:29 chris fallen through
22:30 chris 3rd week of work at the new job and all
22:30 rach ah right
22:30 chris plus i have henry's wedding in march too
22:30 custard could it could function as an umbrella group?
22:30 rach they must be gutted, anyone else going to be able to take your place?
22:30 chris custard: potentially in the future .. once it had proved itself a bit :)
22:31 chris rach: i suggested a couple of the india koha users
22:31 chris they have been running koha training sessions in india .. lot closer :-)
22:32 gmcharlt rach: I hope it remians for both users and developers -- ideally, at least some of the libraries would be funding or hiring their own programmers
22:33 rach developers as distinct from vendors? or both
22:33 Rosa that's an intersting distinction, rach
22:33 gmcharlt rach: I hope both
22:37 gmcharlt understood; in my opinion I hope that KUDOS (if constituted as a US users group) stays focused on Koha and/or library open source and libre software
22:37 gmcharlt and not any particular vendor or set of programmers
22:37 jo I agree.
22:37 jo really important.
22:38 jo and if not then it sis clear in identifying itself as a liblime-koha users group.
22:39 gmcharlt jo: agreed

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