IRC log for #koha, 2007-09-07

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:37 Brooke howdy
13:41 slef hi
13:44 paul hi slef : could you summarize the status of the installer ? (what works & what it does)
13:45 slef it checks dependencies (and installs if you run it via and moves files about
13:45 slef I'm just committing the bit that generates configuration files.
13:45 slef Next I'll write the INSTALL
13:46 paul so it's almost here ?
13:46 slef yes, there's "only" the debugging to do
13:46 slef Have you done $C4::Context::VERSION?
13:47 paul nope. with all database discussions, i've delayed that, to fix everything at the same time
13:47 slef I'll do it - I need it... what is current release number? 3.000.000_0001?
13:48 slef
13:48 slef I was close ;-)
15:08 slef paul: latest installer work is available in
15:29 Brooke hi dbs
15:29 dbs Hello Brooke
15:29 Brooke :)
16:06 kados slef: you workin on the installer today?
16:07 kados slef: so are you giving the user an option for install location, or just using /opt/koha or sth?
16:24 slef kados: optional (set PREFIX, BASE_DIR and other common handy environment variables)
16:24 slef (was on phone)
16:37 Brooke hi tim
16:38 tim Hi Brooke
16:38 Brooke :)
16:38 slef kados: what would be clever would be if rewrite-config.PL could see the value of PREFIX, which it doesn't seem to be able to, hence you have to set BASE_DIR too :-/
16:39 tim I have a problem that started today and I can't figure it out.  It might not be a Koha problem, but it's sure making it slow.
16:40 tim I'm getting 99% CPU usage on the server and can't find any processes that are causing it.
16:40 slef looked in top?
16:40 slef otherwise, what's the server?
16:41 slef (operating system, hosting package, or whatever)
16:57 kados slef: so in the original installer, I had the option to specifiy a desired location for htdocs and cgi-bin for both interfaces
16:57 kados slef: are you saying I'd have to edit a config file to get that functionality now?
16:59 tim Looked on top.  OS=Debian Sarge.  1.8GHz Celeron, 1G RAM
16:59 slef kados: no, just put it on the command line
16:59 slef kados: erm
16:59 kados so no more dialog when running the installer?
16:59 slef kados: actually, that particular split would require a config file edit and moving the files around yourself
17:00 kados suxor
17:00 kados I'd say that's a pretty important issues that needs to be addressed
17:00 kados at least IMO
17:00 kados because we've got people who want to install multiple versions of Koha on the same box
17:00 slef having 1001 different koha tree layouts is a problem
17:00 kados why's that?
17:00 slef so they just put them under different PREFIX or INST_* setups
17:01 slef kados: complexity in the installer
17:01 kados I guess we could have a wrapper install script that did all the stuff you're doing in an automated fashio
17:01 slef kados: multiple kohas with the old installer meant setting environment variables anyway IIRC
17:01 kados n
17:02 slef yes, can have lots of wrappers, but need the basic non-interactive FHS-compliant perl/CPAN-friendly installer first
17:02 kados 100% agree
17:02 slef phone again
17:02 kados slef++
17:10 slef back
17:10 slef one of the problems on the 2.2 installer, IMO, was the number of questions
17:11 kados agreed
17:11 slef 3.0 installer asks nothing and uses whatever half-sane defaults I
17:11 slef could figure out how to obtain
17:11 kados part of that is fixed by moving them to the web installer
17:11 kados ok, that works
17:11 kados so long as I can write a wrapper later that allows some dialog
17:12 kados ie, where there could be choices, I should be able to make choices
17:12 slef many of them can be overridden, by passing environment variables to either MakeMaker or through
17:12 slef rewrite-config.PL
17:12 kados yea, the env var is the wy to go IMO
17:12 slef Have you see Havoc's rant against choices?
17:12 kados that way I can ask questions, then set the env vars based on that, then go do it
17:12 kados no
17:12 kados but I agree
17:12 kados I just know that some choices are going to be necessary
17:13 kados maybe not for 90% of the people installing
17:13 kados but there will always be a few that want to set things up a certain way
17:13 slef "Havoc Pennington is a bright enough fellow, but I think he's got
17:13 slef issues." hehe
17:13 slef well, can 10% cope with putting them on the command-line or tweaking their install after the installer's finished?
17:14 kados don't thikn so
17:14 kados so we write a wrapper
17:14 kados but your thing comes first
17:14 kados so as long as you use env variables where there shoudl be choices, and use a config r something to set defaults, well be golden
17:14 slef I've passed a tarball dev release to pray for him to try.
17:19 Brooke I know I'll be shot on sight for this, but if it's really that large, can there be 2 installers? One no choice and one customiseable?
17:19 slef *BANG*
17:20 Brooke Shooting me just makes Ugh mad.
17:20 slef Seriously, the installer has lots of choices, but sane defaults and just won't ask you about it.
17:20 slef you can tell it if you want a different choice and it shouldn't be hard to write a "question everything" wrapper
17:21 Brooke question everything, trust no one, who's counting *duck*
17:21 slef
17:22 slef under "The Question of Preferences"
17:22 slef is a better reference
17:23 Brooke *nod*
17:24 Brooke I'm gonna jet, too
17:31 tim Killed MySQL and CPU went down to nothing.  Started it up again and it's ok so far, but hasn't been used.
17:33 slef tim: check your mysql logs, but that's fiddly.  Did you see what state the mysql daemon was in?  If D, then it may be a filesystem fault.
17:33 slef but actually, D won't usually push the CPU up until it's almost unrecoverable
17:33 slef so I don't know
17:33 slef increase your monitoring and cross your fingers
17:35 tim Thanks.  It's strange because we didn't have this problem before and it's been under lots heavier use than this.
17:39 cm kados, are you around?  I'm puzzling over my title search problem.
17:51 ryan win 3
17:51 slef lose 99
18:59 tim This is strange.  I killed MySQL and CPU usage dropped.  Restarted it and it was fine till we try to add a biblio record.  Then CPU is back to 99%.
19:00 tim top doesn't show any processes using that much CPU.
19:54 thd` ryan: ping
19:55 thd tim: how had you measured your 99% CPU usage?
19:58 tim Just with top
22:09 apeiron whois apeiron
22:09 apeiron whoops.
23:09 MattNZ Hey guys
23:10 chris hey matt
23:10 rach hello
23:10 MattNZ Just looking at Koha for the first time, just trying to get my head around it all....
23:10 MattNZ how long have you guys been using it? what do you like about it?
23:11 chris you are probably best to ask that question on the mailing list
23:11 chris mostly developers on irc
23:11 MattNZ Do you know what development support fees are generally?
23:12 chris it depends entirely on who is doing your support and what level of support you need
23:12 MattNZ ok, fair enough
23:12 MattNZ So where are you based?
23:13 chris im in wellington
23:13 chris you?
23:13 MattNZ Christchurch
23:13 chris i work for liblime, who do a bunch of support and development around Koha, here in NZ and in the US
23:14 MattNZ Do you charge hourly, yearly ? for support / development
23:15 chris its pretty flexible, we have some kinda set deals, they are based around yearly
23:15 chris you probably want to talk to Russel he knows all that kinda stuff :)
23:15 MattNZ Do you have these set deals published anywhere that you know of? :)
23:15 chris lemme ask, 2 secs
23:16 kados we don't
23:16 kados MattNZ:
23:16 kados someone will contact you if you submit that form
23:16 MattNZ thanks
23:18 MattNZ How do you find the support of Koha? are most queries just user knowledge? or software issues?
23:18 kados a lot of feature requests
23:19 chris lots of user knowledge one toos, though people tend to ask those ones on teh mailing lists
23:19 kados yea
23:19 chris customising/changing features to work in a way a client wants is often a big part
23:20 MattNZ fair enough, being open source I guess the user can implement these functions themselves?
23:20 chris yep sure can
23:21 MattNZ I know there are lots of library systems out there, other than the open source thing what would you say is the major benefit of koha (just in your experience)?
23:22 chris well, the opac of the latest version, and koha zoom, is probably better than any opac ive seen
23:22 MattNZ do you have this online ? I would like to take a look
23:22 chris that stems from the fact that the development is steered by libraries/librarians ... not by marketing teams :-)
23:23 MattNZ yeah, fair enough... do you happen to know any live sites using this opac / koha zoom? that  I could take a look at?
23:23 chris there are ton of libraries using koha, ill find one using koha zoom for ya now
23:24 MattNZ thanks
23:24 chris http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]koha/
23:24 chris <-- koha classic
23:24 chris or <-- koha classic too
23:25 MattNZ great! thanks
23:25 chris <-- theres another zoom one
23:25 chris  <-- some of the libraries we know that are using koha
23:26 chris heres a neat thing you can do in zoom
23:27 chris
23:27 chris find the album called 'the' by macy gray
23:28 MattNZ ok, found it
23:28 chris (its a pet peeve of mine, i know the wellington city library has albums by 'the the' .. but i cant find them in the catalogue)
23:29 chris because the is a stop word
23:29 chris and stripped from the searches
23:29 MattNZ ok, cool
23:29 MattNZ does it do video, audio attachments?
23:30 chris yep can do
23:30 chris you just have to add the link to them when you catalogue an item
23:30 MattNZ to an electronic file? is this stored in the database? or just a link?
23:32 chris you could store it in the db if you want, but its best usually using some content management system to manage those type and file,s and just provide a link to them in the catalogue
23:33 MattNZ ok
23:33 MattNZ certainly looks interesting
23:33 MattNZ how long would it have taken to set up the web interface like the athens one?
23:34 chris kados would know the answer to that one, not long i dont think, thats pretty close to the standard templates that come with zoom i think
23:34 chris that right kados?
23:35 chris hmm its 7.30pm where he is, he might have gone to eat :)
23:36 MattNZ ok, lol
23:40 MattNZ so is koha zoom something you can download or do you have to buy this component?
23:41 chris you can download, but its very tricky to get going, koha 3.0 will have the features of zoom, but be much easier to install
23:41 chris thats what we are working on now
23:42 MattNZ ahhh I see
23:42 MattNZ are there detailed instructions on how to get it going with 2.28 that you know of?
23:43 chris yeah they are a bit out of date though, but what there are is at
23:43 chris[…]ingzebraplugin226
23:44 MattNZ thanks
23:45 MattNZ oh well, thanks for your help... I will go have a play.... may come back if I can't get things working, lol
23:46 chris cool
23:49 cht hi folks
23:49 chris hi chris
23:50 cht its been a while since i've been in here
23:50 cht but, as always, i'm here for a reason :)
23:51 chris :)
23:51 cht i'm trying to load the marc data for npl in samoa but...
23:52 cht the gives me the following:
23:52 cht Can't locate object method "ignore_errors" via package "MARC::Charset" at ... line 24
23:54 cht that should have been, sorry
23:54 cht any ideas?
23:55 cht i'm thinking, comment line 24 out and see what happens :)
23:56 chris hmmm
23:56 chris yeah worth a shot
23:56 chris i suspect MARC::Charset has changed since that script was written
23:58 cht wish me luck!  ;)
23:58 chris good luck :)
23:59 cht sigh...
23:59 cht it looks like MARC::Record has dropped the encoding method used at line 218
00:03 chris ahh, i wonder if theree is a newer bulkmarcimport in git
00:03 chris lemme look
00:06 cht it looks like uses the encoding method in at least three places, some of which are important
00:06 chris[…]4a54ff2af1b44319e
00:07 chris is the latest version i can find
00:08 cht i see the the MARC::Charset on line 24 is commented out :)
00:10 cht and the encoding method of MARC::Record is only called once on line 149 and looks easy to comment out
00:11 chris hmmm
00:11 chris what version of MARC::Record do you hve installed
00:12 masonj hmmm
00:13 masonj just my 2 cents, ive been using a similar version of
00:13 masonj with the 'MARC::Charset->ignore_errors(1);' uncommented , and hasnt been grizzling
00:15 masonj i wonder if certain versions of M::Charset dont like/use that sub?
00:15 chris bound to be
00:16 cht sorry - i'm back
00:16 cht whats the best way to check the M:Record version?
00:17 dbs perldoc MARC::Record
00:17 dbs gives you a version under the second heading
00:19 cht MARC::Recod 1.38
00:19 chris ahh
00:19 chris its up to 2.0.0 now
00:19 cht oh!
00:20 chris i reckon upgrading marc::record will fix the issue with the encoding (which you want fixed, badly encoded records = nightmare)
00:20 cht i wonder if it will compile under debian etch?
00:20 masonj yeah, it should
00:20 chris yeah, i installed it on debian just yesterday
00:20 chris with CPAN
00:21 cht ok
00:21 masonj FYI: my ignore_errors(1)   friendly M::Charset version is 0.97
00:22 cht i just have to wait for the CPAN module to navigate usp's proxy server
00:22 masonj with M::Record 2.0.0
00:22 chris proxies arent fun
00:23 cht while this tries to run, i'm gunna grab some lunch
00:23 cht i will report back in a while :)
00:23 masonj cool, cya then
00:23 cht geez i use too many smileys
00:23 chris its cos u are in friendly fiji
00:44 Brooke yo
00:44 chris hi brooke
00:44 Brooke \/\/00+ chris is up :)
00:44 chris heh
00:46 kados hey chris if you're bored, I think is still busted
00:46 kados :-)
00:46 kados I think it must use the old sessions stuff or sth
00:46 chris ill go look, this is 3.0 right?
00:46 kados but basically, if you change branches, it doesn't save that choice properly
00:46 kados yea
00:46 chris ill take a look now
00:46 kados the login one works fine
00:47 kados so prolly a copy/paste job would do it
01:05 cht ok, i updated both MARC::Record and Charset off od CPAN with no trouble and (the original version) is now running against about 45,000 records
01:27 cht thx kados!
01:28 cht dum dee dum... CPU at 100%... mysql at the top of the process list... i guess that's a good sign ;-)
02:08 thd chris: I have a question about submitting compressed git patches.
02:08 chris yep
02:10 cht unrelated question: are there any other opac or intranet templates available anywhere?
02:10 thd chris: I have submitted several patches to patches at but only one patch which did not depend on previous compressed patches ever made it into the main repository.
02:11 chris not really cht, the idea was that would be a place to put them but no one really has yet
02:11 chris hmmm, i wonder if the mail server ate them
02:12 thd chris: the very first patch I submitted is now irrelevant but all the others are still relevant.
02:12 chris can u remmebr the commit lines
02:12 thd chris: what do you mean by commit lines?
02:13 chris Major change switching Koha record ID from field 090 to 999
02:13 thd that is one
02:13 chris ok what was the irrelevant one?
02:13 thd no that was one of the last ones
02:17 thd chris: the irrelevant one is "Corrected internal versioning and treatment of authority types" from 21 August.
02:18 chris ok ill go hunting for the others and try to reapply them
02:18 thd chris: I updated git subsequent to submitting the next batch of patches so their should be no dependency on the first one.
02:19 chris k
02:20 chris 0001-Major-change-switching-Koha​-record-ID-from-field-090.patch
02:20 chris didnt apply
02:20 chris error: misc/marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql: does not exist in index
02:20 chris ill have a look at it to see why
02:20 thd chris: "Correcting authoritytypecode values" was the first in a set of sequential patches from 24 August.
02:21 thd chris: "Correcting fields and subfields included in authority frameworks" is second.
02:22 chris hmm right ill try applying them in that order
02:22 thd chris: "Adding custom authority frameworks" is third.
02:23 chris first 2 applied ok
02:23 chris doing the 3rd one now
02:23 thd chris: "Correcting custom authority frameworks installation instructions" is forth.
02:24 thd chris: "Major MARC 21 bibliographic frameworks change" is fifth and last so far.
02:24 chris first 3 applied and pushed up to the rm repo
02:25 thd chris: the only issue I noticed was that git would give a warning about the trailing white space in some of my comment lines.
02:26 chris yeah it doesnt like trailing whitespace
02:26 chris but its just a warning
02:27 chris ok that Major one still doesnt want to apply clean
02:27 chris ill take a look
02:27 chris the rest all applied fine
02:27 thd chris: I could fix the trailing white space in my comments in future to avoid confusing diff but the amount of white space is not a serious issue presently.
02:28 cht folks: where is the item type supposed to go? 942 subfield something?
02:29 thd cht: that sounds right if you mean the internal Koha SQL column.
02:30 chris sorted and pushed up, so when joshua has checked it, should all appear on thd
02:30 thd chris: what was the problem with the last one?
02:31 chris misc/marc21_standard_bib_framework.sql and the simple one didnt exist, so i just git added them and it was happy
02:32 thd chris: were they moved or something?
02:33 chris could be, seems all happy now tho, so just check it when it appears at
02:34 thd chris: I would have thought that some of the other patches had a dependency on those files but I guess I will check the final status to see that it all went well
02:36 thd chris: can file additions not be included in a patch?
02:36 chris yep they can
02:36 chris im not sure why it didnt like them, but its happy now
02:36 thd I guess I ma happy if git is happy :)
02:37 chris the messages had got caught by my filters as they didnt have the [PATCH] text in them, so i didnt spot them
02:38 chris (get so much spam to the addresses)
02:38 thd chris: should subject line should include [PATCH]?
02:38 chris thats what git send email does, so i have a filter that spots them
02:38 thd when I send patch messages?
02:39 chris yeah that would be handy
02:39 thd chris: I have not been using git to send them because I have to compress to many of them before sending.
02:40 thd chris: I cannot send a 22-25 MB frameworks patch over my mail system
02:41 chris yeah fair enough, if you put PATCH onthe subject line itll make it easier to spot
02:41 chris and we should be all good
02:41 chris gzipped is fined, i just didnt spot them
02:43 thd cht: biblioitems.itemtype is in 942 $c by default for the Koha MARC 21 bibliographic frameworks
02:50 cht thd: perfect, thx
02:53 cht one more question... i loaded the data before i set the item types, which is something that chris told me not to do...
02:53 cht do i need to set the item types and then do a fresh reload or can i just enter the items types now?
02:53 chris you can just enter them now, that should be ok
02:56 cht k
02:59 cht oops. i forgot about the 4 char limit on the item type - i guess i will have to reload after all
07:03 paul__ World Rugby Cup begins today in France
07:09 chris yes, im watching interviews live in marseille
07:09 chris i didnt see you though :)
07:09 paul ;-)
07:09 chris saw zidane kicking a rugby ball
07:10 paul yes, we have some ads with Zizou and F. Galtier speaking of sport
07:10 chris hehe
07:10 chris 12 hours till kickoff
07:11 paul the rugby man explaining to Zizou that the Rugby ball is oval and the rules differents (give the ball behind you to advance :-D ), but the sport spirit is the same
07:11 paul or something like that
07:11 chris :-)
07:11 masonj but keeps it nearby....
07:11 chris the bar in marseille where russel and I had dinner with HDL was in the newspaper here today
07:12 chris being the only rugby bar in marseille
07:12 paul of course : Marseille is THE soccer city in France.
07:13 chris
07:13 hdl and zizou being badly hit by a quarterback.
07:13 chris new marcedit
07:13 paul (even our new bishop said when he arrived last year : "I come from a Rugby city, but i'm happy to discover a soccer city" ;-) )
07:13 chris hi hdl
07:13 chris hehe
07:14 hdl hi chris
07:15 hdl Marcedit still relies on .net :S
07:15 chris yeah, but it should work with MONO
07:16 chris i havent tried it though
07:16 hdl I tried on a windows engine.
07:16 hdl But it was quite slow.
07:16 chris right
07:17 hdl (.net on windows 2000 professional)
07:22 paul chris, a git question...
07:22 chris yes
07:22 paul we did some tests with hdl, and I have something like 10+ commits on my repo.
07:22 chris yep
07:22 paul something like 3-4 of them are "useless" and you don't need to apply them on official repo
07:22 chris right
07:22 paul how to tell git "OK, forget those ones"
07:23 chris i dont think you can, but you can tell git which ones you want to make patches for
07:23 paul (of course, they are mixed with useful ones. For example A-B-C-D-E-F : B, C and E are useless)
07:24 paul right, but they will still appear on my branch. And a .patch file file will be generated each time I git-format-patch
07:24 paul right ?
07:24 chris yes unless you tell format patch to ignore them
07:24 chris im just looking how to do that
07:26 chris --ignore-if-in-upstream
07:26 chris    Do not include a patch that matches a commit in <until>..<since>. This will examine all patches reachable from <since> but not from <until> and compare them with the patches being generated, and any patch that matches is ignored.
07:26 chris maybe that .. but im not sure
07:26 chris there must be some way to do it, people must have run into this before
08:28 slef hi
08:28 slef chris: about?
08:58 paul hi slef
09:03 chris am now
09:41 slef chris: sorry, was on phone (50 minutes!)
09:41 slef chris: still there?  I've got a FHS patch to the installer which might actually get us a working and half-sane tarball
09:44 chris cool :)
09:44 slef I'll email it in now, as you're around, instead of waiting for pray to test
09:44 chris cool, ill take a look and apply it and push it up to the RM repo, and joshua can push it out when he wakes up
09:45 slef you have m@il
09:45 slef anyone else, the patches are on serene
09:46 slef serene is
09:46 slef serene?
09:46 dewey serene is
09:47 chris sweet that looks good
09:48 chris done
09:49 slef not 100% sure about it, as I've not found anyone doing this the same way yet
09:49 chris right
09:49 slef but then, installation of perl webapps seems to be as neat as a bag of cats
09:49 chris yeah, everyone seems to do it differently
09:50 slef some people like Module::Install, some like PAR, so I'm staying with MakeMaker for now because it's everywhere
09:50 chris right
09:54 chris that tarball looks pretty deent
09:55 chris decent too
09:55 slef beware: it will splatter /usr if you don't give it a PREFIX on both Makefile.PL and make
09:55 chris ahh right
09:55 slef but most people seem to like to splatter /usr with koha - strange people ;-)
09:56 chris hehe
09:56 slef perl Makefile.PL 'PREFIX=/tmp/koha'
09:56 slef PREFIX=/tmp/koha make install
09:56 chris good way to test
09:57 slef for testing... looks sane... not been brave enough to try on my main coding system yet!
09:57 chris ill have a try on that, and see what happens :)
09:58 slef I've not tried yet, but you may even be able to dh-make-perl the tarball
09:58 slef that's the eventual plan... probably needs debugging
10:09 chris seems to be working
10:11 chris at least its installing a pile of modules from cpan
10:11 chris (was a fresh debian etch so its needing to install all the modules)
10:13 slef cool
10:13 slef did you install mysql and zebra first, like in the README?
10:13 slef ;-)
10:13 chris yep
10:13 slef good man!  You are a rare hacker, RTFMing
10:14 chris heh i even read the to figure out how to run it
10:14 chris i think if its a fresh cpan
10:14 chris we need one more mkdir
10:14 chris to make the id dir .. before we make id/K
10:14 slef fresh = unused?
10:14 chris yeah, unconfigured CPAN
10:15 slef ah, that doesn't happen during configuration?
10:15 chris it makes author
10:15 slef You need to have configured CPAN
10:15 chris but not author/id
10:15 slef ok, shall I add and send-email?
10:15 chris that would be cool
10:22 slef done
10:22 chris sweet, ill apply then i might head to bed, gotta be up early for the first game of the rugby world cup in the morning
10:23 slef I was wondering about going to watch that at the local cinema... not sure I'll bother
10:23 chris luckily kahurangi will wake me up, he never sleeps past 6am
10:23 slef I think I have 4 free tickets
10:23 slef ultimate big screen sport ;-)
10:23 slef no beer, though
10:23 chris to the france vs argentina game?
10:23 slef no, to RWC @ cinema
10:23 chris ahh :)
10:23 slef I think it's 4 for all matches
10:23 chris sweet
10:24 slef after that, you have to pay... no idea what
10:24 slef as in 4 for the tournament
10:24 chris shame about the no beer rule
10:24 slef no every match
10:24 slef rugby+beer+steeply raked seats?  sounds dangerous ;-)
10:24 chris hehe
10:26 slef I think I'm only going to report phishing emails for banks I like from now on.
10:26 slef It's too much work, otherwise.
10:26 chris yeah there are so many of them
10:27 slef I already only report UK ones because I know the unified reporting system for them.
10:27 chris right applied and pushed, time for some sleep
10:27 chris thanks for working on the installer
10:27 slef no probs, enjoy your snooze
10:27 slef oh, did it work?
10:27 chris its still cpanning :)
10:28 chris ill let you know tomorrow
10:28 slef ok, voyons!
10:39 kados morning all
10:39 slef morning... I shouldn't still be in this office :-/
10:40 kados slef++ # installer progress
10:46 slef be interesting to see what chris's test turns up
10:52 kados definitely
11:09 hdl hi kados
11:31 kados hey hdl

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