IRC log for #koha, 2007-07-11

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:14 kados hdl: still around?
12:14 hdl yes
12:14 kados hdl: g'morning :-)
12:15 kados hdl: did you have a chance to troubleshoot the SQL file?
12:15 hdl not yet
12:18 hdl In fact, ipt  rel30 counts  87 tables.
12:18 hdl So we may have all the tables.
12:19 kados hdl: any idea what that error is then?
12:19 hdl No. I couldnot investiguate yesterday
12:19 kados morning owen, jaron
12:20 jaron g'morning owen & kados
12:20 kados hdl: i think the SQL defs are the primary thing holding us back from a 'development' release
12:21 hdl hi owen jaron and kados.
12:21 hdl kados.
12:21 hdl I will make it today.
12:21 kados (just a friendly RM reminder ;-))
12:21 kados hdl++
12:46 owen Patrons should be able to cancel a reserve online!
12:47 kados owen: they can't?
12:47 owen Not unless this is a secret which has been kept from me :)
12:48 kados probably not added, but it would be a trivial feature to add
12:49 kados there's already a separate column for reserves in the account page, right?
12:49 owen A separate tab
12:49 kados that's what I meant
12:50 kados ahh, I see now:
12:50 kados If you no longer want a reserve, please send us an e-mail, or go to the circulation desk at your library to get it removed.
12:50 kados hmmm
12:54 kados owen:
12:54 kados add the following somewhere in the template:
12:54 kados <form action="/cgi-bin/koha/" method="post">
12:54 kados        <input type="hidden" name="from" value="borrower" />
12:54 kados        <input name="rank-request" value="del">
12:54 kados        <input type="hidden" name="biblio" value="16595" />
12:54 kados        <input type="hidden" name="borrowernumber" value="22994" />
12:54 kados        <input type="submit" name="submit" value="Remove" /></p>
12:54 kados </form>
12:55 kados owen: the biblio and borrowernumber numbers will need to be TMPL_VARs
12:55 owen Will that redirect back to the reserves list?
12:55 kados remove that stray </p> too
12:55 kados owen: yep
12:59 owen Hey, works like a charm
12:59 kados :-)
12:59 kados ok, I'll commit my script, you can commit the template :-)
12:59 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials
13:00 owen Sure. I'm going to take a moment to add a javascript confirm
13:00 kados *nod*
13:01 kados hey dbs
13:02 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> Figured I might as well auto-join #koha :)
13:03 kados :-)
13:05 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> btw, whenever you guys do hit a point where you think 3.0 is installable / testable from HEAD, please let me know and I'll be happy to give it a whirl
13:05 kados dbs: thanks ... much appreciated
13:06 kados bbl
13:06 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> (and document whatever steps aren't fully documented / whip up a vmware image for other testers)
13:06 kados dbs++
13:07 hdl kados : some questions when you are back.
13:21 kados hdl: back
13:22 hdl first : ipt asked me some modifications into detailed page and that would entice changing some fields definitions.
13:23 hdl So can I send you a report of all the things that need to be changed ?
13:23 kados hdl: the detail page as in the detail page for a record?
13:23 hdl yes.
13:24 hdl that is to say changing some Kohafield length...
13:24 kados right
13:24 kados can you send it to koha-devel?
13:24 kados let others weigh in also?
13:24 hdl For instance, passing ISBN to more than 14.
13:25 hdl I will report all their demands.
13:25 hdl This is important for base structure requirements.
13:26 kados agreed
13:27 hdl Second, do you have an marcxml2ISBD stylesheet example ?
13:27 hdl I have some from loc.
13:27 kados I don't have a marcxml2isbd example
13:27 kados specifically
13:27 dewey specifically is not working?
13:28 kados sec
13:28 hdl But I think if it would be good to use xsl for ISBD rather than our ISBD parsing.
13:28 kados I 100% agree
13:28 kados I think we should use xsl for all detail displays
13:29 kados hdl: http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]-tmpl/compact.xsl
13:29 hdl In fact, there would me 3 modes, summary, ISBD, and complete.
13:30 kados IMO the ideal would be to store the XSL in a syspref
13:30 kados we don't really need multiple views
13:30 kados ie, patrons don't care about that
13:30 kados at least IMO ;-)
13:31 owen kados: there are some other changes to NPL's opac-user.tmpl that hadn't been committed, so I checked our copy of as well, and it too has changes that don't seem to have been committed.
13:31 owen Can you take a look at our and commit the changes if everything looks good?
13:32 owen I don't want to commit a template that's not in synch with the script.
13:32 kados owen: sure
13:34 hdl kados: when librarians navigate between Summary and ISBD, we should be able to provide them with both.
13:35 kados hdl: sure
13:35 hdl Summary is really important for result lists.
13:35 kados yep
13:35 hdl And since any library want to personnalize the list, it would be good to leave it up to them in siche a file.
13:37 kados sure
13:37 kados I'd say post it to the list and see what others say
13:38 kados owen: a bit more verifying than I have time for this morning, can you send a mail to support requesting it?
13:38 owen Sure
13:39 kados morning foxnorth
13:39 foxnorth hey kados- just the guy i'm looking for! :)
13:40 kados :-)
13:40 foxnorth got a few minutes?
13:40 kados sure
13:45 kados hdl: we need to make the OPAC redirect to the Staff for the Installer
13:46 hdl (kados : xsl should not be stored in system preference but rather in itemtypes and there is already sthg for summary : summary defined by paul... Could be changed to longtext and input via interface. All we would have to do is add xsl processing and an ISBD field.)
13:46 hdl sorry  ?
13:46 kados hdl: pre-installation, the OPAC redirects to /cgi-bin/koha/installer/
13:46 hdl you mean. we should tell at OPAC : wait for the librarian to set up Koha ?
13:47 kados hdl: yea, that would work too
13:47 hdl too ?
13:47 kados either one would be OK
13:48 hdl OK.
15:11 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: darcilicious n=plinkit@
15:11 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> hola! :-)
15:18 lloyd well I suppose i'll say hello as everyone else is being rude :)
15:27 kados hey lloyd
15:27 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> lloyd :)
15:32 lloyd omg.. microsoft just completely borked my exchange server!
15:33 hdl kados: is there a data design modell document ?
15:33 hdl online ?
15:33 hdl MCD in Franch.
15:33 kados hdl: just paul's on the wiki that I know of
15:33 hdl I cant find it.
15:34 kados huh, neither can I :(
15:34 kados yet another reason to move to plone :-)
15:34 kados ok, I gotta run
15:34 hdl :P
15:34 hdl run forest
15:35 kados :-)
15:35 kados later all
15:44 lloyd if anyone uses WSUS and Exchange 2007 don't let it install Exchange 2007 Rollup 3
16:23 kyle_ hey all, I've essentially completed my Koha Offline Circulation program, If anyone is interested, I'll package it up. The client is written in Java and the server is written in perl. It uses XML-RPC for communication. The only thing I can't seem to get working is XML-RPC over SSL. I'm still working on that. I think it may be the version of Java I'm using.
16:24 jaron kyle_++
16:24 kyle_ thanks.
16:24 jaron I don't have a use for that myself, but know that many big libraries would like to have such functionality.
16:25 ryan hi kyle_
16:25 kyle_ I've been working on a solution on and off, but when our internal network went down for an hour or two, I made offline circ a top priority.
16:25 kyle_ hey ryan
16:25 ryan how do you store the data on the client ?
16:26 kyle_ The data is stored in memory, and can later be saved to a file. When first run, it asks for a file and will continuously write the data out to that file, if you so choose.
16:27 jaron kyle_: how do you then move the information back into the production server?
16:28 kyle_ Using XML-RPC. I wrote an XML-RPC server using perl Frontier library.
16:29 kyle_ It uses the C4 libraries to actually authenticate, issue and return items.
16:30 ryan so it runs on the production server
16:30 ryan does it throw back errors or warnings to the client when encountered ?
16:30 kyle_ yes, it's just another file in cgi-bin
16:30 jaron What happens if production server is down? Is this still useful?
16:32 kyle_ sort of, one can never verify the success of many C4 function calls, because function like checkin have no return value.
16:32 kyle_ jaron, the point of it is to run the client until the production server is back up, then syncronize the data from the offline circ client to the production server.
16:33 kyle_ but the client does verify that the call to the server was successful. If an attempt to synchronize data fails, the client continues to store that data.
16:33 jaron cool. ok, so I am understanding how it works. :)
16:34 jaron gotcha
16:34 kyle_ it's not pretty, but it's functional. It will process issues, renewals, and returns.
16:34 jaron well, functional is what you need in those situations.
16:35 jaron better than pen and paper, huh? :)
16:35 kyle_ indeed ; )
16:35 kyle_ *much* better than pen and paper.
16:35 ryan very nice, kyle_
16:36 kyle_ Thanks. I'll write up some documentation and package up the program and put it on my site.
16:36 jaron kyle_: maybe a screenshot?
16:37 kyle_ will do.
16:37 jaron thanks
16:41 kyle_
16:41 jaron kyle_++
16:42 jaron Looks super simple.
16:42 jaron Exactly the kind of simple interface you need for something you're hopefully not going to be running much.
16:43 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> Just don't use the acronym to refer to the offline client :)
16:43 kyle_ thanks. It's amazing how much code is required for even a simple gui interface.
16:43 jaron dbs: heh
16:43 kyle_ what would you call it, [K]?
16:44 jaron kyle_: [K] is a bot. that was dbs speaking.
16:44 jaron from over on freenode
16:44 kyle_ ok
16:44 kyle_ I don't know what your talking about, but I'll accept it ; )
16:45 jaron [K] is a relay bot. he takes messages from the freenode #koha channel and sends them over to this channel.
16:45 kyle_ so it ties to IRC channels together?
16:45 jaron the part to look at for the person actually typing is nick@Freenode. see?
16:46 jaron kyle_: yes
16:46 jaron in case anyone wanders over to freenode looking for koha folks
16:47 kyle_ ok. any suggestions on name the offline circ client, i've just been calling it KohaOfflineCirculation, with the server being kocd
16:47 jaron How about Offline Koha?
16:47 jaron O.K.
16:48 jaron system goes down--you're still O.K.
16:48 kyle_ heh, heh ; )
16:48 owen kyle_, what happens if when you're offline you check something out to someone who is actually debarred?
16:49 kyle_ it gets checked out, reguardless. It's in that persons possesion, so it gets checked out.
16:49 jaron It would be nice once you update into production to get a report of those kinds of warning, though.  Something to think about.
16:50 owen That makes sense--so it bypasses whatever restriction would normally be in place. Does it handle issuing rules the same way? Someone checks out a non-circulating reference item for instance?
16:50 kyle_ yes, that would be nice. I suppose it could also run as a background proccess and periodically get lists of debarred patrons and th elike.
16:51 kyle_ I haven't tried that, but I believe it will still issue the item. I would hope a librarian would catch that one though ; )
16:51 jaron owen: hopefully the circulation staff catch that one
16:51 jaron jinx
16:51 kyle_ heh ; )
16:51 owen Sure, I'm just running down possible snags
16:52 owen When you synchronize with online Koha, how does it handle reserve messages on returned items?
16:52 kyle_ Always a good idea.
16:52 kyle_ It doesn't.
16:53 owen ( here at NPL we spent quite a bit of time working out what would be required for an offline system and I even hacked together some PHP stuff but it never got far )
16:53 kyle_ We dont' use koha reserves yet, so I haven't thought about that.
16:53 kyle_ That should be in some kind of post-sync report as well.
16:54 kyle_ if you documented any of those offline circ requirements, I would take a look at them.
16:54 owen The way it stands, when something gets checked in that's on reserve it wouldn't be allocated would it? It wouldn't be marked as found?
16:55 kyle_ I imagine not.
16:56 owen As long as reserved items weren't marked as found, you could simply wait until they showed up on the reserve list. You wouldn't necessarily even need a report. But a report would be good too.
16:57 owen Is the client careful to synch Issues data before returns data?
16:57 owen Or does it do everything sequentially?
16:57 kyle_ yes, issues go before returns
16:58 kyle_ wait, no. Returns go before issues. In case a book is returned then issued again.
16:59 owen But if I check something out and then return it before the system goes back online the book ends up going back on my account.
16:59 kyle_ yes, I see.
16:59 owen Maybe the client should record timestamps for all transactions and synch issues and returns squentially?
16:59 jaron unless you're doing the updating by transaction time?
17:01 kyle_ jaron, could you explain?
17:01 jaron like owen's idea.
17:01 jaron use timestamps
17:01 jaron process the earliest transaction first
17:02 kyle_ ok, I see. That could definitley be done. Probably the best way to do it as well.
17:02 kyle_ The client just starts with the first transaction it records, and ends with the last one. All issues and returns are done in chronological order
17:05 owen I look forward to getting a look at it, kyle_
17:05 jaron as long as it updates the database in that strict time order then it ought to be alright, methinks.
17:06 kyle_ I'll get interesting when you think about the fact that most libraries will be running multiple clients.
17:06 kyle_ Maybe it would be easier to have the clients just save the files, and have a separate program read all the files at once, arrange the transactions, and commit them to koha.
17:06 jaron sure. and that's where timestamps could be used to pool all the transactions and sort
17:07 jaron yep
17:07 kyle_ good brainstorming. I'd better get back to coding ; )
17:07 jaron might not be easier but ought to be better
17:07 jaron :)
17:07 kyle_ better is rarely easier ; )
17:53 foxnorth hdl still around?
17:54 foxnorth had a question about web installer from the latest CVS-- after running the web installer i'm still being redirected back to it
17:59 hdl em... normally. you should have a version in your
18:00 hdl systempreferences
18:00 hdl and in your koha.xml
18:02 foxnorth hdl: thanks! lemme see what i've got in there
18:08 kados ahh, I remember
18:09 kados <version></version> needs to be in koha.xml
18:09 kados that's the problem
18:11 foxnorth this is down in the <config> section?
18:11 kados yea
18:12 foxnorth what version number (or do i need to check the systempreferences)?
18:12 kados doesn't matter
18:12 foxnorth ah well that makes it easy!
18:12 kados it doesn't check the value yet, just that it exists :-)
18:12 foxnorth ok
18:13 foxnorth do we think i should run the again?
18:13 kados yea, drop the db and start over
18:13 foxnorth ok thx will give it a try
18:13 kados <kohaversion>
18:13 kados is actually what it should be
18:13 foxnorth ok
18:13 kados <kohaversion></kohaversion>
18:14 foxnorth here goes...
18:16 foxnorth it works!
18:16 kados w00t!
18:16 foxnorth thanks all!
18:16 kados now you can find all the bugs :-)
18:16 foxnorth a bug-hunting i'll go...
18:17 kados hehe
18:17 kados that'd be great actually
18:17 kados the more eyes the better
18:22 kados ok, now I really do have to leave
18:22 kados :-)
21:42 martinmorris evening all
21:42 martinmorris got a question about my koha installation when i try to use it through IE 6
21:43 chris opac or staff side?
21:43 martinmorris staff side
21:43 martinmorris i'm editing a biblio at 100$a
21:43 martinmorris to use a name authority
21:44 martinmorris get an error icon in the bottom left hand corner which, when i click on it, gives this message
21:45 chris ahh there may be bits that dont work, the opac should work with all browsers, staff side we test hard for firefox but not so many other browsers so it depends on if the person doing the templates has spent time testing/building for IE
21:45 martinmorris sorry my client crashed there
21:45 martinmorris right, so it's possible that it just doesn't work with IE and that's it :)
21:45 chris could well be :)
21:45 martinmorris so long as i know and it's not something i'm doing wrong
21:46 chris is it a javascript error you are getting?
21:46 chris if so, and you have firefox installed, give it a whirl with that, and see if it works
21:47 martinmorris i normally use a mac and had no probs at all, happened to use windows for the first time with it today and got this problem
21:47 martinmorris trying to cut and paste it now
21:47 martinmorris won't let me, OK here's the relevant bits
21:47 martinmorris Error: Invalid argument
21:47 martinmorris Code: 0
21:48 chris yeah that feels like javascript
21:48 martinmorris URL: http://<hostname>/cgi-bin/koha/​mple/
21:48 chris yep i think the template has some js that IE doesnt like
21:48 martinmorris might upgrade to ie7 out of curiosity, and spit as i do so :)
21:49 chris heh
21:50 ryan martinmorris: marc editor won't work with ie atm
21:50 ryan works well with Opera
21:50 ryan and FF
21:50 martinmorris fair enough - thanks
21:50 martinmorris just that my library's staff computers only have IE on without permissions to install anything else
21:52 chris what we need is someone who knows js and the foibles of IE
21:52 martinmorris if i did, i would happily help
21:54 ryan yeah, i don't think there's too much to do to get it working
21:54 ryan just nobody to do it :)
22:04 kados martinmorris: might want to send a mail to the koha-devel list, addressed to Tumer Garip
22:04 kados I know he uses IE and the MARC Editor
22:04 martinmorris that means joining the list first i take it? :)
22:05 kados ahh, yea
22:05 kados painless though
22:05 kados
22:05 kados look for the link to Koha Developers List
22:05 martinmorris got it
22:07 martinmorris requested to join now, will see what happens
22:16 kados martinmorris: went through
22:16 kados martinmorris: now we just wait for tumer to respond :-)
22:16 kados martinmorris: he's in Cyprus
23:33 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: darci|away
00:23 chris hey jaron, got a sec?
00:23 jaron sure, what's up.
00:23 chris was talking with walter today about ruby-zoom
00:24 chris[…]_id=592&atid=2347
00:24 chris was wondering if you wanted to add a comment to that, add your voice as one who wants the extended services too
00:25 jaron I am very interested in extended services.
00:25 chris i figure if more ppl say "me too" it might get done :)
00:25 jaron funny thing is just today ed made me a developer on that project
00:25 jaron thing is I don't know a bit of C to complete the binding
00:25 chris yeah thats how it came about, i saw ed's blogpost
00:26 chris yeah my 1991 1st year university C just wont cut it :)
00:26 jaron I'm not sure whether Laurent would be interested in doing it.
00:26 walter hey jaron, walter here
00:26 jaron hey, walter
00:27 walter yeah, i have a rails plugin that uses the perl api as a fallback
00:27 walter would like to elimenate that dependency
00:27 jaron I've been doing the same thing on occassion.
00:27 jaron I understand that definitely
00:27 jaron and you're using zebra too?
00:28 walter yep
00:28 walter so, if we got someone to put together the ruby-zoom extended services functionality
00:28 walter you have a line on someone that could get it commited to the project, i take it
00:29 jaron I think I could commit it now.
00:29 walter ah, get it now
00:29 walter didn't realize that you were new committer
00:29 walter cool
00:29 jaron ed added me today
00:30 walter was thinking of putting the word out in local rails community as a project
00:30 jaron mostly because I submitted a doc patch and had others I'd like to see
00:30 walter cool
00:31 jaron yeah, ed got the project only because Laurent didn't really seem interested in it anymore and there was a namespace issue with ruby-marc
00:31 walter nice that is actually a gem now
00:31 jaron he just did that today
00:31 jaron at my prodding
00:31 walter cool
00:31 walter nice
00:32 jaron so the only changes ought to be that it's a gem and some test suite added to it
00:32 walter i'm working on an installer on my project and that will make it easier for me
00:32 walter cool
00:32 jaron haven't even had a chance to look at the testing yet
00:32 jaron my project just got easier too ;)
00:33 walter i'll see if i can find someone to do the extended services and let you know
00:33 chris ok, im gonna grab some lunch, bbiab
00:33 jaron from what ed said it seemed rather easy to write a binding
00:33 jaron but that's also coming from ed
00:33 jaron but I doubt he'd be much interested in the project
00:34 jaron bbiab
00:40 jaron walter, that sounds great.
00:43 walter i just posted to my local rails list, hopefully get a nibble there
00:44 jaron I don't have any developer connections but definitely let me know what I can do to help make this happen
00:52 walter will do
02:32 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials
07:40 chris morning toins
07:41 toins evening chris
07:41 toins ;-)
07:52 chris did you hear about the rugby ball nz is building in paris?
07:53 chris
07:53 chris crazy idea :)
07:59 chris hi hdl and lloyd
08:00 hdl hi chris.
08:08 lloyd morning Chris =)
10:17 Fallor hi
10:17 dewey que tal, Fallor

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